Why is answering questions with in-universe (Instead of out-universe) explanations considered bad? (In anime)

Questioner just wants agreement to its morals.
Other works in Fate series don't use sex for mana transfer, including Realta nua novel retcon and Fate Zero.
If we had Waver x Iskandar, Gilgamesh x Spoiler scenes, most of the fan base would cringe at it.

I believe both explanations are valuable. I even think the in-universe explanation is more important, because a story will not make sense if it's not internally consistent.


This definitely makes the out-universe explanation less interesting, but some fans may wish to discuss WHY the author thought it cool, or express their own feelings on the author's taste.

Because in-universe explanations often still end up "the author thought it would be cool," just with extra steps.

I don't know anything about the Fate example, but based on your explanation this is what it looks like to me:

Out-universe argument:
Because the author wanted to put those scenes in.

In-universe argument:
The characters need those scenes to do the mana transfer. Why do they need to do that for the mana transfer? ..Because the author wanted to put those scenes in.

The argument feels a little flimsy to me, and almost like dodging the question.

It reminds me of that bikini sniper in Metal Gear Solid V. The in-universe explanation for that get-up was that she could only breathe through her skin, so that normal clothing would suffocate her.

To which I say... okay, fine, but come on... you and I both know why she looks like that.

Because in-universe explanations often still end up "the author thought it would be cool," just with extra steps.

I don't know anything about the Fate example, but based on your explanation this is what it looks like to me:

Out-universe argument:
Because the author wanted to put those scenes in.

In-universe argument:
The characters need those scenes to do the mana transfer. Why do they need to do that for the mana transfer? ..Because the author wanted to put those scenes in.

The argument feels a little flimsy to me, and almost like dodging the question.

It reminds me of that bikini sniper in Metal Gear Solid V. The in-universe explanation for that get-up was that she could only breathe through her skin, so that normal clothing would suffocate her.

To which I say... okay, fine, but come on... you and I both know why she looks like that.

This could be a sign that the in-universe explanation is not very good. While I acknowledge the real reason for the bikini, I judge it based on the quality of its in-universe explanation. As far as skimpy clothing is concerned, I feel "she enjoys dressing that way*" is an adequate explanation. My own opinion on the outfit is important too, of course. I don't want to stare at an ugly mug even if it is plausibly explained.

*That is how this character's outfit was explained by the writer in interviews.

I played Realta Nua and thought the mana transfers made no sense. Nasu wrote explanations to justify the inclusion of sex scenes, but he didn't write adequate explanations to justify their removal. Basically, I consider it bad writing if the out-universe explanation is the only explanation.

I think whoever you were arguing with just doesn't like that Fate's author used the narrative to justify sex scenes.

I personally think that in-universe explanations for things are inherently good. People just don't like when they're used to explain or justify things that they don't like, such as fanservice in an ecchi series, or sex scenes that they deem as unnecessary.

@PeripheralVision
As Fate/Stay Night sex scenes were included in order to sell copies, I think the most important questions are "are the sex scenes good?" and "are the replacement scenes good?" Because of course nobody wants to read poor writing. Though I'm not familiar with the original scenes, I can confidently say the SFW replacements I read through are no good.

I mean, yes, stories exist because authors want to write them.
Which is why in-universe arguments are worth more: They focus less on what the author WANTED to do, and focus more on what they MANAGE to do.

My point is that every out-universe argument has an in-universe equivalent.
I think Quiet's costume is bad fully by in-universe reasons: It makes no sense her costume looks like it was done in 5 minutes, it's fucking Metal Gear Solid, she should be wearing something like what Cortana wears.

@Vipadus
@PeripheralVision
@Lucifrost

The "forced because of economic reasons" thing is a myth, BTW.
They said in an interview that they did so because "it felt natural for them".
Granted, I forgot where I found that interview and have no link for it, so you'll have to accept just my word for it.

@Lucifrost It depends, for example this question could in my eyes be asked for the relationship between Sakura and Shirou on Heaven's Feel. On the other hand, in the first route sex before the final fight with Hercules was a means to an end. Shirou had to have sex with Saber for the sake of their survival, it was not done for traditional furthering of intimacy, and it is this scene that is often used as an example of it being more than poorly written, but gratuitous. This claim is not as common with Heaven's Feel or Unlimited Blade Works in my experience.

So the question of "are the sex scenes good" is therefore inextricably linked to "are they necessary" or "are they unnecessary", as in do the scenes contribute the characterization or the narrative or do they not? I do not think you can have a good sex scene that is not "narratively" justified in terms of these deeper elements, because you cannot divorce what it is to have good writing from what actually occurs in the narrative itself.

Good writing in this sense of the word of course needs things to happen.

For example, shounen anime and manga like One Piece clearly foreshadows many confrontations between Luffy and certain antagonistic figures, including the overarching villains of the One Piece world. A good story would inevitably include Luffy beating these villains and becoming the Pirate King. Or in Jujutsu Kaisen, of course Yuji was going to be the one to kill Sukuna, or in Demon Slayer where of course Tanjro was going to kill Muzan.

It would be generally bad writing for those confrontations not to happen, so it is silly to suggest that these two things can in fact be separated in my opinion.

But the mana transfer in Fate does further their intimacy, which is the main reason I think it would have been better with sex. Shirou and Saber spend the remainder of the route behaving as if they'd fucked. Achieving such intimacy through euphemisms lends a sanitized feel to this "mature" story.

@PeripheralVision
As Fate/Stay Night sex scenes were included in order to sell copies, I think the most important questions are "are the sex scenes good?" and "are the replacement scenes good?" Because of course nobody wants to read poor writing. Though I'm not familiar with the original scenes, I can confidently say the SFW replacements I read through are no good.

In-universe explanation are fine as long as it makes sense.


Fate series and sex scenes? I don't remember at all that thing, servants would just chill at the non summoned state. At least that was a thing in Zero, Stay Night [I don't remember if any of those had it, I haven't finished Heaven's Feel yet and I have almost no memories of the first SN and it's reproduction], Apocrypha etc.

- Didn't play any VN, Gacha nor read novels. Only anime.

With some things it makes sense due to the fact the author chose to make it a requirement for the story

Other times it's just people being uncomfortable with something and not thinking on the thematic purpose

Also saying everything boils down to cool factor is disrespecting the fact that for the most part there is a purpose beyond it, either thematic, character reasons or other

now go try and argue with mushoku fans why does loodie has infinite mana

Fate is an example of an in-universe explanation done right.
Please provide examples of badly done in-universe explanations.

@BigBoyAdvance
Ever watched Charlotte? Big spoilers if no.


In Kidou Senshi Zeta Gundam a certain character betrays her friends and proceeds to commit genocide because... she was a woman, and women have needs. No, really, that is the explanation given.

In Isekai Maou to Shoukan Shoujo no Dorei Majutsu a certain character >>>KNOWS OBJECTIVELY FOR A FACT<<< that his friend is being hypnotized into abandoning his group, but decides to stay in bed crying because... he was bullied in his childhood.

Likely not the type of answer you were looking for, but the truth is that I simply don't recall any example at the top of my head because I drop most anime that you fumble this.

Please don't ignore the VERY important context
She suffered as an early age (considering she's the same age as Char probably and it took place during the OYW she was around 20) from trauma caused by how men treated her, if I don't mistake the quote she said is "men only know how to humiliate women", we don't know the full extent except for taking place during a large place of time and including abuse
The trauma has lead her to a very unhealthy mentality about men and women which can be seen for most of the show, the mentality and trauma, helped by Char's rejection of her caused her to be easily manipulated by Scirocco (which also uses the newtype connection to make it easier for me)
Having needs isn't the reason, unresolved trauma and manipulation is

@Guilmon1
Oh, sorry, how could I have ignored that?
Now this is a 100% well written justification for killing hundreds of thousands of civilians with toxic gas.

@thewiru it isn't justified, the story never justifies it and even she knows how messed up she is even before the betrayal, but it does make sense for her character and fits the themes so yes, it's well written

@Guilmon1
I don't really think it does, that whole arc just comes out of nowhere.
Then again, I'm the guy who have 1/10 to Zeta Gundam.