| do you think ai anime will never improve to the point its good enough to look like traditional anime? for unemployment worries im sure indie anime will become mainstream once ai anime is good enough so unemployed creators or artists can just start a youtube channel and patreon to make their own indie anime using ai tools so thoughts? |
| Because people simply prefer art made by real humans. AI art is kinda fake, you know? |
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Reply to deg
@Serafos if a fake can be as good as the real thing is that a problem?
mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning too but people are fine with it
mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning too but people are fine with it
| @deg yes it is a pb, bcz AI steals style to produce something....I think AI art is okey as long as it doesn't get used commercially... People should hate AI art so that It doesn't get pushed into the mainstream |
Reply to TaifSux
@deg yes it is a pb, bcz AI steals style to produce something....I think AI art is okey as long as it doesn't get used commercially...
People should hate AI art so that It doesn't get pushed into the mainstream
People should hate AI art so that It doesn't get pushed into the mainstream
| @TaifSux whats the difference between a new artist being influence or copying the style of old artists for example with gen ai art? isnt gen ai art just made it more efficient copying of old styles? |
Reply to deg
@TaifSux whats the difference between a new artist being influence or copying the style of old artists for example with gen ai art? isnt gen ai art just made it more efficient copying of old styles?
| @deg BCZ getting influence and directly copying ain't same...Influence is still needs your own imagination and skills to make a art happen...While AI just copies the style for a person who's just using a prompt... |
Reply to TaifSux
@deg BCZ getting influence and directly copying ain't same...Influence is still needs your own imagination and skills to make a art happen...While AI just copies the style for a person who's just using a prompt...
| @TaifSux isnt the results is what matters more here? gen ai art is improving fast on copying old styles also ai art will just up the standards for whats good looking like there are lots of human artists with bad arts and the remaining top human artists will continue to be more successful |
deg said: im sure indie anime will become mainstream once ai anime is good enough so unemployed creators or artists can just start a youtube channel and patreon to make their own indie anime I keep seeing this talk of "indie anime." Can you explain what that is? I assume this means anime that's being made "outside" of the production committee/studio system. Do they exist in current day? What are some examples? How much "market share" or even just visibility do these really have right now? If "indie" is not already a thing, it's naive to think that this will grow bigger in the AI-dominated future, where even more anime will be produced and compete for the public's attention. |
| Frieren first episode backgrounds are AI based and it is top 1 on MAL. My main hate on it is that it lacks the consistency of someone drawing. It is hard to make 2 images that look the same in another angle. Maybe if the AI Art process become full of steps like modeling a 3d cenario or a 3d character. But people also hate 3d. So machines can't do aesthetics? |
| Maybe it's because very samey looking and easily noticeable and taking artist's work. |
Reply to perseii
deg said:
im sure indie anime will become mainstream once ai anime is good enough so unemployed creators or artists can just start a youtube channel and patreon to make their own indie anime
im sure indie anime will become mainstream once ai anime is good enough so unemployed creators or artists can just start a youtube channel and patreon to make their own indie anime
I keep seeing this talk of "indie anime." Can you explain what that is?
I assume this means anime that's being made "outside" of the production committee/studio system. Do they exist in current day? What are some examples? How much "market share" or even just visibility do these really have right now?
If "indie" is not already a thing, it's naive to think that this will grow bigger in the AI-dominated future, where even more anime will be produced and compete for the public's attention.
| @perseii just search youtube for some indie anime also indie games are unheard of decades ago too |
| Because if I wanted to watch anime without a soul behind it I would just look for LN adaptations by SILVERLINK. |
Reply to deg
@perseii just search youtube for some indie anime also indie games are unheard of decades ago too
| @deg OK. I only see some shorts. I've seen Puparia before, which I do think is impressive. But I don't see anything that competes with the "big leagues." Are there any that runs a full season's length, i.e. 25 min. x 12 episodes? Or a feature-length movie? Do these even make money? Are they made to make money? Indie games and indie movies are absolutely "proper" games and movies, and many of them can compete with big-budget blockbusters. They sometimes even eat their lunch. They regularly capture the public's attention and social media chatter. Are there indie anime that do that? I know nothing about this "indie" scene, so some more pointers would be appreciated. |
Reply to perseii
@deg OK. I only see some shorts. I've seen Puparia before, which I do think is impressive.
But I don't see anything that competes with the "big leagues." Are there any that runs a full season's length, i.e. 25 min. x 12 episodes? Or a feature-length movie?
Do these even make money? Are they made to make money?
Indie games and indie movies are absolutely "proper" games and movies, and many of them can compete with big-budget blockbusters. They sometimes even eat their lunch. They regularly capture the public's attention and social media chatter. Are there indie anime that do that?
I know nothing about this "indie" scene, so some more pointers would be appreciated.
But I don't see anything that competes with the "big leagues." Are there any that runs a full season's length, i.e. 25 min. x 12 episodes? Or a feature-length movie?
Do these even make money? Are they made to make money?
Indie games and indie movies are absolutely "proper" games and movies, and many of them can compete with big-budget blockbusters. They sometimes even eat their lunch. They regularly capture the public's attention and social media chatter. Are there indie anime that do that?
I know nothing about this "indie" scene, so some more pointers would be appreciated.
| @perseii thats why improving ai tools can make indie anime compete with full length shows done by corporations imo its prediction of mine |
Reply to deg
@Serafos if a fake can be as good as the real thing is that a problem?
mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning too but people are fine with it
mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning too but people are fine with it
deg said: mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning too but people are fine with it @deg You cannot compare traditional ART with mass production items. They're in their own categories. The "AI art" isn't really a form of art, at least in terms of drawing/creating pictures. It uses other people's art, learns on them to create images based of their work. It's soulless, generic, feels cheap and lazy. The Internet is flooded with that garbage, Google Images finds a lot of them while looking for anime characters or wallpapers. I just cannot aesthetically appreciate an artificially generated image. It's disrespectful towards real artist who learned to draw and are able to create original ideas in their minds. |
Reply to K4RO
deg said:
mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning too but people are fine with it
mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning too but people are fine with it
@deg You cannot compare traditional ART with mass production items. They're in their own categories.
The "AI art" isn't really a form of art, at least in terms of drawing/creating pictures. It uses other people's art, learns on them to create images based of their work. It's soulless, generic, feels cheap and lazy. The Internet is flooded with that garbage, Google Images finds a lot of them while looking for anime characters or wallpapers.
I just cannot aesthetically appreciate an artificially generated image. It's disrespectful towards real artist who learned to draw and are able to create original ideas in their minds.
| @K4RO like i said if the fake looks good too i do not see the problem |
Reply to deg
@TaifSux isnt the results is what matters more here? gen ai art is improving fast on copying old styles
also ai art will just up the standards for whats good looking like there are lots of human artists with bad arts and the remaining top human artists will continue to be more successful
also ai art will just up the standards for whats good looking like there are lots of human artists with bad arts and the remaining top human artists will continue to be more successful
| @deg Humans with bad arts are still better than the peoples with skill who steals arts with propmt ...I would rather give the bad artists my money, imao |
Reply to deg
@perseii thats why improving ai tools can make indie anime compete with full length shows done by corporations imo its prediction of mine
| @deg So as I understand it, "indie anime" right now is a concept that does exist, but in a completely different playing field from the "proper" TV/ONAs/movies, and with barely any public awareness or a robust business model. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though. I understand that indie anime can take off (even) more in the future, but I just think it's an extremely optimistic view that it will suddenly explode onto the scene from (basically) nothing. AI may help indie animators, but it will also help the existing studio system, and I personally believe that AI is almost custom-made to help the studio system more, because it'll be very good at producing "passable" content at an extremely high speed and volume. Also, for an indie scene to take off, a lot of other big developments need to happen at the same time as the AI push, I think. Like financing and distribution. Indie movies now are an industry, with lots of options and players that can fund and release the movies, and indie games have Steam, not to mention Xbox Arcade way back. It just feels like a very long road for indie anime. |
| Time will tell, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone will want to watch it. I can watch two chess programs play with better form than any human, but is that really what most people want to see? I'm not opposed to using some AI generations blended into your work, but fully outsourcing to a computer feels like interacting with a chatbot: artificial. |
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Reply to perseii
@deg So as I understand it, "indie anime" right now is a concept that does exist, but in a completely different playing field from the "proper" TV/ONAs/movies, and with barely any public awareness or a robust business model. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though.
I understand that indie anime can take off (even) more in the future, but I just think it's an extremely optimistic view that it will suddenly explode onto the scene from (basically) nothing.
AI may help indie animators, but it will also help the existing studio system, and I personally believe that AI is almost custom-made to help the studio system more, because it'll be very good at producing "passable" content at an extremely high speed and volume.
Also, for an indie scene to take off, a lot of other big developments need to happen at the same time as the AI push, I think. Like financing and distribution. Indie movies now are an industry, with lots of options and players that can fund and release the movies, and indie games have Steam, not to mention Xbox Arcade way back. It just feels like a very long road for indie anime.
I understand that indie anime can take off (even) more in the future, but I just think it's an extremely optimistic view that it will suddenly explode onto the scene from (basically) nothing.
AI may help indie animators, but it will also help the existing studio system, and I personally believe that AI is almost custom-made to help the studio system more, because it'll be very good at producing "passable" content at an extremely high speed and volume.
Also, for an indie scene to take off, a lot of other big developments need to happen at the same time as the AI push, I think. Like financing and distribution. Indie movies now are an industry, with lots of options and players that can fund and release the movies, and indie games have Steam, not to mention Xbox Arcade way back. It just feels like a very long road for indie anime.
| @perseii ai tools will make production so cheap there will be more small studios than expensive big studios like whats happening in gaming right now i mention youtube and patreon for funding indie anime |
Reply to TaifSux
@deg Imao, please don't disrespect peoples like Hayao Miyazaki, Satoshi Kon or Masaki Yuasa with a opinion like this.....Anime is just a medium where both high or low arts can be produced, its upto the creator
| @TaifSux like 90 percent of anime is low art though exception to the rules exist anyway |
| "why ai art on anime is so hated?" This is like asking "Why fake cheese is so hated?". Not quite the same as the genuine thing, also it's bad for you. The difference is that AI art is bad for culture and artists in general. It can only imitate existing art or make random variations on it. It practically kills creativity...which was on decline to begin with. The big companies will exploit it to feed you fake stuff. Another comparison is replacing actual medicine with only palliative medicaments and placebo. "do you think ai anime will never improve to the point its good enough to look like traditional anime?" There's no definite point in which you can say "Now. that's the ultimate anime!". There's no final goal. The whole point of art is constant search for new harmonies, new vantage points and new ways of expression. Restrain that and the point of the whole thing will be lost. "for unemployment worries" I think way more important thing is on stake here - human nature, because this will affect all aspects of art, not only anime. "indie anime will become mainstream" Really? Apart of small groups of donators which will be able to support only a handful of artists working on minimalistic individual projects, I don't see genuine anime surviving as major media. "mass productions of products are basically mass fake cloning" Humans invented and tested those products in the first place...your comparison is like selling physicals copies or streaming anime. This distribution, not part of the creative process. "whats the difference between a new artist being influence or copying the style of old artists for example with gen ai art?" That one day said artist will invent their own style and the AI can't even keep it consistent if not told so by its human operator. "ai art will just up the standards for whats good looking" Aside of few things like the golden ratio, perspective and how the lighting works on physical objects. there aren't actually standards - there are only trends and aestetics which change with time. "ai tools will make production so cheap there will be more small studios than expensive big studios like whats happening in gaming right now" 1. Small studios will be never able to compete with the resources of the big corporations. 2. The comparison with gaming doesn't work because of one big difference - gameplay. There are different ways to experience gaming - even with only pen and paper, but anime is basically consuming what they feed you. The bigger companies will be always have the upper hand in that. As I mentioned above, probably some artists, eventually the ones who don't use AI will be able to gather some fans of the "hand made" anime, but that would be on a very small scale. |
alshuJan 9, 12:21 AM
Reply to Sasori56483
Frieren first episode backgrounds are AI based and it is top 1 on MAL.
My main hate on it is that it lacks the consistency of someone drawing.
It is hard to make 2 images that look the same in another angle.
Maybe if the AI Art process become full of steps like modeling a 3d cenario or a 3d character. But people also hate 3d. So machines can't do aesthetics?
My main hate on it is that it lacks the consistency of someone drawing.
It is hard to make 2 images that look the same in another angle.
Maybe if the AI Art process become full of steps like modeling a 3d cenario or a 3d character. But people also hate 3d. So machines can't do aesthetics?
| @Sasori56483 dude thats a bold claim that frieren uses ai background arts im sure you do not have any reliable source for that other than it looks ai art to you if so it defeats your other points because the suppose ai art fooled you to thinking like that and made you confuse if its human made or machine made |
Reply to deg
@perseii ai tools will make production so cheap there will be more small studios than expensive big studios like whats happening in gaming right now
i mention youtube and patreon for funding indie anime
i mention youtube and patreon for funding indie anime
| @deg I just don't see how the YouTube and Patreon route can sustain an entire industry of ex-studio animators. Sure, there will be some success stories (like 2010's indie game projects on Kickstarter), but it will be difficult to raise enough funds and put together a team to compete with the big studios. Like I said, AI might make things cheaper, but it makes things cheaper for the big studios, too. Unless the industry also changes drastically in multiple ways AND in a favorable direction, I expect the AI push to be way more destructive to anime than constructive. Even if it results in the rise of the indie anime, I expect it will be a very long time (decades, even) and there will probably be a high casualty rate. |
Reply to perseii
@deg I just don't see how the YouTube and Patreon route can sustain an entire industry of ex-studio animators. Sure, there will be some success stories (like 2010's indie game projects on Kickstarter), but it will be difficult to raise enough funds and put together a team to compete with the big studios. Like I said, AI might make things cheaper, but it makes things cheaper for the big studios, too.
Unless the industry also changes drastically in multiple ways AND in a favorable direction, I expect the AI push to be way more destructive to anime than constructive. Even if it results in the rise of the indie anime, I expect it will be a very long time (decades, even) and there will probably be a high casualty rate.
Unless the industry also changes drastically in multiple ways AND in a favorable direction, I expect the AI push to be way more destructive to anime than constructive. Even if it results in the rise of the indie anime, I expect it will be a very long time (decades, even) and there will probably be a high casualty rate.
| @perseii for sure only the few high talented creators or artists will remain while the rest will be victims of technological unemployment so in that worse case scenario either full socialism or universal basic income funded by taxing the ai and robots will be needed and this is not exclusive to the anime industry |
Reply to deg
@perseii for sure only the few high talented creators or artists will remain while the rest will be victims of technological unemployment so in that worse case scenario either full socialism or universal basic income funded by taxing the ai and robots will be needed and this is not exclusive to the anime industry
| @deg So you kind of agree that a ton of "other" drastic changes will need to take place too for AI adoption to be a net positive? :P I admit that I don't have much imagination or faith in an AI future, and I suspect that most of the public don't either. It's difficult to be optimistic when we look at how the industry already works and what kind of anime is getting made... |
| also the complain about ai art looks cheap thats the point ai or any automation makes production cheaper anyway |
| It's not art if it isn't made by a sentient being. @perseii It's doujin anime 同人アニメ 同 = same 人 = person Any self published work is doujin and when it is manga or a magazine it is called a doujinshi. Though it doesn't mean it literally has to be just one person because there are doujin circles where people work together on projects. People often do it for their own love of something and a profit just a bonus if it happens. Crowdsourcing of anime projects has been successful many times before actually, just it usually is done by professional studios more than doujin circles. |
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| >not a single person showed example picture of AI art in anime Yet you think you should have an opinion about it |
Reply to BigBoyAdvance
>not a single person showed example picture of AI art in anime
Yet you think you should have an opinion about it
Yet you think you should have an opinion about it
| @BigBoyAdvance https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2193230 also fans notice kaiju 8 background arts is ai |
Reply to deg
@Sasori56483 dude thats a bold claim that frieren uses ai background arts im sure you do not have any reliable source for that other than it looks ai art to you if so it defeats your other points because the suppose ai art fooled you to thinking like that and made you confuse if its human made or machine made
| @deg Indeed bold of me to claim that. Like the way they positioned the blue tapestry in the bridge of the city around 7 min, 5min and a half after the opening. Or the way they added lines and building positions for the roofs in around 6 min after the opening showing the city. Or the odd cabin roof with an assymetric length and bizarre curvature that she enters to talk with the old guy about black dragon horn. |
Reply to deg
@BigBoyAdvance https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2193230 also fans notice kaiju 8 background arts is ai
| Post pictures of AI in anime, not gonna sift through 4 pages thread |
Reply to BigBoyAdvance
Post pictures of AI in anime, not gonna sift through 4 pages thread
| @BigBoyAdvance here is the production video of that news https://youtu.be/dOUIEFT1OLI?si=RmDvGzONsG8PUgoP also another news about ai in anime and manga https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2193039 |
degJan 9, 12:43 AM
Reply to TaifSux
@deg BCZ getting influence and directly copying ain't same...Influence is still needs your own imagination and skills to make a art happen...While AI just copies the style for a person who's just using a prompt...
| @TaifSux So why are so many traced fanarts not criticized for the same stuff? Same with "artists" who do that? It's not that much different than writing a detailed prompt in terms of effort, but from the artistic point of view, it's worse, because tracers do their "art" completely consciously, whilst people working with AI are basing their final results on prompts AND complex algorithms (that these days are not that much different from "influenced art"). Some of them sell those copied artworks, calling them their own (or "uh oh heavily inspired"), but I don't see an angry Internet mob with imaginary pitchforks seething and screeching over them, like happens when a random person casually mentions making AI-generated fanarts of their waifu or, I dunno, animals they like, kekw. The "AI bad, tracing good" mindset is just a hypocrisy fueled further by technophobia. While I agree that old AI technologies, or low-quality algorithms, indeed were problematic in the regard of blatantly copying other people's works, the newest algorithms work way better in this aspect, and they are improving as we speak. I don't see a problem in using AI as, say, a base for further graphic enhancements. It can save a lot of time and money. So, in other words, I see no reason to be angered if there was something that was made with the help of AI, be it backgrounds or something else (when it's been confirmed, that is; some AI-hating folks will accuse of being the AI-generated stuff they simply don't like xD). It's a tool like any other. And to not repeat what has been already mentioned, I will just quote the creator of this thread: deg said: isnt the results is what matters more here? gen ai art is improving fast on copying old styles also ai art will just up the standards for whats good looking like there are lots of human artists with bad arts and the remaining top human artists will continue to be more successful |
Reply to deg
@BigBoyAdvance here is the production video of that news https://youtu.be/dOUIEFT1OLI?si=RmDvGzONsG8PUgoP
also another news about ai in anime and manga https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2193039
also another news about ai in anime and manga https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2193039
| It's still in production? Looks bad now, maybe it will look good later. Post pics of already aired anime that use AI. |
| fuck ai (artificial incel) generated trash and fuck pro ai propaganda. keep that shit away from anime. |
Serfort30Jan 9, 12:48 AM
            |
Adnash said: So why are so many traced fanarts not criticized for the same stuff? They do get heavily criticized if they don't openly say it is a tracing and source it. It's different because it's a learning process some people try to use to develop a real art skill. |
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| for me it looks bad, I can tell at a glance when it's ai, I don't mind it being used on background art, concept art, sketches and so on, but the main animation, character art, OP and ED, I want them to stay in the hands of the artists. Hikari no Ou had those pretty artpieces in season 1 and season 2 started using AI to make them and well... u can just tell. It's just makes me sad, I don't think I've seen AI that is undisguisable from the real thing - that's why I also don't like AI anime fanarts, I know many of guys here like them, as it spawns more curvy fanarts of seasonal waifu's, but it does nothing to me, It just looks bad, probably that's my stance cuz I draw myself, but I can't get myself to like it + at some point AI is not gonna be a help to the artist but a full-on change and anime will be produced more quickly but at what cost? Coca Cola AI Ad, Radio station in Poland that made an "interview" with AI generated real life person Wisława Szymborska that is long dead, AI slop YT videos and shorts, whatever is happening on Facebook - is it so bad that I don't want this to happen to the media I love in a larger scale? |
[🇮❜🇲 🇦 🇵🇷🇴🇫🇪🇸🇸🇮🇴🇳🇦🇱 🇭🇺🇸🇧🇦🇳🇩🇴 🇨🇴🇱🇱🇪🇨🇹🇴🇷] |
Reply to BigBoyAdvance
It's still in production? Looks bad now, maybe it will look good later.
Post pics of already aired anime that use AI.
Post pics of already aired anime that use AI.
degJan 9, 12:51 AM
The first one yeah, it 100% looks like AI. The houses are placed in random places, at random angles, it all looks messy and unnatural. The background behind the guy looks weird, what the hell is that even supposed to be? Wouldn't be surprised if that's AI.  Those cover arts look AI too, but I don't really care since cover =/= anime. |
| Fear of the unknown, our ancestors also hated cars, machines, airplanes, radio, tv when they appeared at some point. Now the same thing is happening with AI. @TaifSux AI is already mainstream. @K4RO Art is -by default- subjective, there's no such thing as "real art" or "fake art". All art is art. |
NurguburuJan 9, 1:07 AM
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
| Prolly cuz AI art looks shoddy asl. Having seen a fuckton of anime art over the past couple years, I can tell at a glance if a piece of fanart is 100% AI generated. The eyes and the lighting are almost invariably the biggest giveaways. Shit makes me wanna gouge my eyes out lol. |
Reply to traed
Adnash said:
So why are so many traced fanarts not criticized for the same stuff?
So why are so many traced fanarts not criticized for the same stuff?
They do get heavily criticized if they don't openly say it is a tracing and source it. It's different because it's a learning process some people try to use to develop a real art skill.
| @traed Modern AI undergoes a more complex "learning process" than an artist-in-training developing their skills by tracing others' work, though. We're talking about doing this purely for enjoyment, entirely free of charge. Someone learning AI algorithms, including how to generate graphics, is more likely to face criticism from those opposed to AI art than a tracer who recolors their traced work, maybe adds a small detail, and presents it as their own within a community that appreciates art in general, including the one inspired by famous artists. Even though most of these artists don't trace, tracers seem to get a free pass a lot more often, at least from what I've seen. Sure, some get called out (mostly for copying other people's art, not stuff from official sources), but they usually don't get as much flak, compared to AI enthusiasts. Now imagine this: someone selling AI-generated images created with advanced AI and enhanced with graphic tools, versus a tracer who adds a minor detail to a traced image and then sells it. You can easily imagine which one has a higher chance of having to face emotionally unstable mob of haters. ;p You are right that full transparency is key to healthy condition of art (at least I understood it that way). Tracing can be indeed a valuable learning tool for rookies, but it becomes problematic when overused or used to profit without proper attribution. Same as the AI-generated stuff. |
Reply to Nurguburu
Nurguburu said: Aye, this is essentially another chapter of technophobia. This time, it is AI that is at the center of attention, whereas in the past, concerns were raised about the devastating effects of cars, radio, television, and even lamps.Fear of the unknown, our ancestors also hated cars, machines, airplanes, radio, tv when they appeared at some point. Now the same thing is happening with AI. Funny enough, if we compare arguments of various generations, they follow the same pattern of reasoning. You don't need to dig a lot to find several decades old articles with "apocalyptic predictions" on how Photoshop was to destroy this, destroy that. And yet, in the age of AI, we still have professional photographers, models, etc. etc. The fashion world and the whole society didn't fall into chaos. ;p |
deg said: do you think ai anime will never improve to the point its good enough to look like traditional anime? for unemployment worries im sure indie anime will become mainstream once ai anime is good enough so unemployed creators or artists can just start a youtube channel and patreon to make their own indie anime using ai tools so thoughts? 1) AI "art" looks like shite, it will not improve, even if one day it looks seemingly perfect without it's melted 6 fingers, it'll remain souless and thus still look like shite 2) Unemployment, cuz they're not all gonna sudenly become youtubers and make a living off that, it takes a different set of skills to run your own channel and grow a fanbase big enough to support you on patreon beyond pocket money |
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