thoughts on them κ€
| i felt so guilty for not liking Vash from Trigun, his character design is superb but he is so unbearable and gets on my nerves but he is what one could say "a ideal creature" but i didn't like him TwT same happened with other shounen characters too how do you feel ? |
 π still at the restaurant |
| Depends on how it's executed. Vash is a great example because he has to deal with the consequences of his ideals yet we can see what somebody completely devoid of said ideals is like in Knives. The most annoying versions of this type of character are when you can feel the author beating you over the head with the message while simultaneously trying to justify the actions of the bad guy who is usually some sort of mass murderer. |
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| Probably both the second and third options. |
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desusama said: i sooooo agreee with ths,i just hated that one could save millions by betraying or keeping aside their ideals...also what ideals are any good for if everything is in turmoil !!! >_< The most annoying versions of this type of character are when you can feel the author beating you over the head with the message while simultaneously trying to justify the actions of the bad guy who is usually some sort of mass murderer. |
π still at the restaurant |
| I enjoyed Vash's journey. The only time he pulls the trigger in the show is really impactful. It's not the kind of protagonist that I like, but if it's done right then it's fine. |
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| People will root for a dude who literally commits genocide, but smh get annoyed when a character preaches humane moral values. |
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| I understand where are they coming from even though they are wrong hence they don't get on my nerves, it's just that they lived comfy lives and have no idea about the real world. |
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| I do understand why they exist, like beyond the surface level explanations, I understand the value of forgiveness, but I do think it goes a little bit too far sometimes. When you have characters sparing absolutely iredeemable villains, people who they know are not going to change, I can't help but shake my head a little. Once again, even then I can understand it for some characters, if the character is meant to represent boundless forgiveness in some way, like Gokuu for example, he'll give almost anyone a second chance. No, what really bothers me is when it happens to average characters, like say Yusuke from yu yu hakusho has this whole "can't live with myself if I take the life of my opponent" struggle several times, even though his allies have no qualms killing, it just feels a bit odd to me. And of course when you have people who are in a life and death situation but are not themselves willing to kill I often find it contrived, like yeah we get it, the Mc is a saint, fantastic, I guess he is also stupid because he values the life of the enemy more than success. But I think authors are starting to realize this. In "newer" shows like Jujutsu kaisen and Chainsaw man killing is quite casual at times (well, once again Yuuji has the exact same tried and true "can't bear to kill my enemies" complex but he is the only person in the series to have it so I am willing to forgive it). In older shows theres something I like to call the "power ranger syndrome", that is, the fate of a battle is predestined. The heros can't lose, they can't be lastingly damaged, nothing bad can ever happen. All tension is illusory. These newer shows escape the power ranger syndrome by allowing the "good guys" to fail and for bad things to happen. Dismantling the "no killing" rule is also indirectly part of this shift, allowing the protagonists to take morally gray actions, or maybe even evil actions. |
AnjuroAug 11, 9:32 AM
Reply to SimplyBrazen
People will root for a dude who literally commits genocide, but smh get annoyed when a character preaches humane moral values.
| @SimplyBrazen Sometimes the guy doing the preaching is the only one that can stop genocide guy for good but decides to preach instead of doing something. |
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SimplyBrazen said: that is true but when one has the power to stop the suffering, by hook or crook, i believe for greater good a little soiling of ideals make it idk...all better at the end !! powerless people arent in the discussionPeople will root for a dude who literally commits genocide, but smh get annoyed when a character preaches humane moral values. desusama said: !!!Sometimes the guy doing the preaching is the only one that can stop genocide guy for good but decides to preach instead of doing something. |
π still at the restaurant |
Reply to desusama
@SimplyBrazen Sometimes the guy doing the preaching is the only one that can stop genocide guy for good but decides to preach instead of doing something.
ame said: that is true but when one has the power to stop the suffering, by hook or crook, i believe for greater good a little soiling of ideals make it idk...all better at the end !! powerless people arent in the discussion desusama said: Sometimes the guy doing the preaching is the only one that can stop genocide guy for good but decides to preach instead of doing something. Right...the world needs someone who can act not someone who contemplates on it. That wasn't my point tho. |
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| I dislike the trope, but I like Vash from old Trigun as he is somewhat grotesque character that fits his role really well. I mean "chaotic good" is quite an alignment, you can't completely discard it. |
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Anjuro said: hahahaha !! i agreee, you written well presenting your thought and i too think, that "ideal or utopian representation" doesn't really teach any morals or so i think, its more preachy than moral !!!I guess he is also stupid because he values the life of the enemy more than success. |
π still at the restaurant |
LoveYourSmile said: I dislike the trope, but I like Vash from old Trigun as he is somewhat grotesque character that fits his role really well. I mean "chaotic good" is quite an alignment, you can't completely discard it. you have the new Trigun:Stampede in ur ava, i saw the teaser, i was thinking to watch it since Vash looks sooo good with his hair down, also the animation >>> is it good ?? |
π still at the restaurant |
Reply to ame
LoveYourSmile said:
I dislike the trope, but I like Vash from old Trigun as he is somewhat grotesque character that fits his role really well. I mean "chaotic good" is quite an alignment, you can't completely discard it.
I dislike the trope, but I like Vash from old Trigun as he is somewhat grotesque character that fits his role really well. I mean "chaotic good" is quite an alignment, you can't completely discard it.
you have the new Trigun:Stampede in ur ava, i saw the teaser, i was thinking to watch it since Vash looks sooo good with his hair down, also the animation >>>
is it good ??
| @ame I haven't watch new Trigun yet, but someone gifted me an expensive figurine of him and I didn't like it - that was enough for me to ignore the remake lol. I like the old anime because it's deeply rooted into my personality, not because it's an objectively good anime or whatever. |
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
| Most of the times I dislike them. Itadori is fine because although he doesn't want to kill, he knows that sometimes it can't be avoided. Reason I love Gojo and Eren is because they can accept killing to achieve something greater, even though they do not want to. |
| It all depends on each show individually and their lore. It would be strange if a pacifist character killed his enemies like cannon fodder, and the hero of a war drama followed an overly naive pacifism when hundreds of people were being killed around him. |
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Guilmon1 said: i think it works ONLY WHEN THEY ARE SO POWERFUL THAT THEY DO NOT NEED TO KILL ANYONE TO PROTECT WHAT SHOULD BE PROTECTED but most of the times, its just they letting go the "pure evil" irredeemable antagonists and then they causing more loss of life and the cycle keeps on going...(i vented sorry)Highly depends on the character, Kira from gundam seed is the worst example and only works because of plot armor and a complete disregard to how physics and war works (post getting freedom) but it can be done well if there is an acknowledgement of the flaws and a realistic solution to those flaws |
π still at the restaurant |
Reply to ame
Anjuro said:
I guess he is also stupid because he values the life of the enemy more than success.
hahahaha !! i agreee, you written well presenting your thought and i too think, that "ideal or utopian representation" doesn't really teach any morals or so i think, its more preachy than moral !!!I guess he is also stupid because he values the life of the enemy more than success.
| @ame hehe, In truth I don't think there is anything philosophical about it to begin with, not in this form at least. If you want a slightly more philosophical take on this killing/no killing thing might I reccomend "Kara no kyoukai" (which is also just a pretty good and short series). In this case the identity of a certain character is so tied to killing, and the contrast between them and another character who rebukes this killing behaviour is so strong, that in my opinion it is actually good. There's also a romance mixxed in if that gets the juices flowing for you :) (The 7th movie is the one which really goes into detail on this topic) |
 I really, really hate characters like that. |
| Depends on the character and how well justified it is, for example, Thorfin's pacifism is very well explained, we all understand why he is like that and root for him to never kill again. |
| If they are preachy/vocal about not killing, it's extremely annoying. We get it. If they don't kill but don't say anything, that's fine. I don't have to hear their shit. Macross 7 is one of the worst shows I watched because of the annoying garbage mentality |
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| It depends on the execution and the context, because when the character is in front genocidal maniac and says ''If I kill him I will become like him'' or something like that, yeah, I can't take it seriously. |
| Said this in another thread, I like Vash because he's constantly challenged by his circumstances, and has an actually solid reason to be a pacifist. But I can't stand guys like Naruto and Steven Universe forgiving genocide. |
AzafuseKingToraAug 11, 10:43 AM
| I don't feel like voting for any option, it entirely depends on the way the character is written. I haven't seen Trigun so not sure about it, but generalising a character based on one aspect is plain stupid, it's like saying Batman is boring because he can't kill the Joker. |
| I voted for "depends, but like them mostly". I loathe them when they get really preachy to the point where the whole story is delayed and the main character's friends have to sacrifice for that ideal, and they still do nothing about it. 2 shows immediately came to mind, first is Platinum End, and second is Tower of God. They may or may not have changed later in the story, but as a writer, you have to thread carefully between the fine line to make the protagonist relatable/understandable when writing them to be naive and borderline annoying, and in my opinion, both shows failed. Side note on Tower of God, I liked Baam in season 1, but his later confrontation with a certain girl makes me furious. I liked Vash the Stampete though. One of the most popular seinen series, Vinland Saga have a protagonist like that, and while he does have a no-kill principle, you understand where he's coming from. It does get a little bit frustrating in the latter part of season 2, but because you've seen his progress, you understand his reasoning, and that's why he's one of the most liked protagonist in anime. |
ToG25thBaamAug 11, 10:54 AM
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| Certainly not anymore than the ones who are doing the killing to begin with |
Cold-hearted orb that rules the night Removes the colours from our sight Red is grey and yellow white But we decide which is right And which is an illusion. |
| No, I respect pacifistic characters, even if they are foolishly idealistic. |
Reply to TransferUser
I really, really hate characters like that.
| @TransferUser oi, were the girl from? Also to reply to OP, generally these characters annoy the shit out of me. Why can't they be more like Goku? Kind, and generally preferring to not kill anyone, but if required doing so to protect others (and himself, of course). |
| idealistic people are the ones that make big changes to the world though and not realistic characters |
| It can absolutely work, Turn-A gundam has a pretty spectacular example of a pacifist MC whose not annoying or naive in his portrayal whatsoever cause he will use force only when necessary and cause he's in an overpowered mech a lot of the conflict can become going the extra mile to avoid killing. Theres a really fantastic episode midway in that involves him trying to get rid of a that just would not work without a no kill rule. on the flip side a character that is too gung ho about killing with no thought put into it can come off as kind of cringe, they've died out now but there was a flood of edgy ass shounen manga in the 10's that almost felt directly made in response to the idea of pacifist characters and oh god that's an era I'm happy is long dead. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Reply to BirdyTheMighty
@TransferUser oi, were the girl from?
Also to reply to OP, generally these characters annoy the shit out of me.
Why can't they be more like Goku? Kind, and generally preferring to not kill anyone, but if required doing so to protect others (and himself, of course).
Also to reply to OP, generally these characters annoy the shit out of me.
Why can't they be more like Goku? Kind, and generally preferring to not kill anyone, but if required doing so to protect others (and himself, of course).
BirdyTheMighty said: were the girl from? Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Gou It's a sequel to Higurashi no Naku Koro ni  |
Reply to Ba-Cii10
Depends on the character and how well justified it is, for example, Thorfin's pacifism is very well explained, we all understand why he is like that and root for him to never kill again.
Ba-Cii10 said: Depends on the character and how well justified it is, for example, Thorfin's pacifism is very well explained, we all understand why he is like that and root for him to never kill again. Same and agreed as long it's well done in a respectful/decent way. |
| Lets all just get along and sing in a circle Kumbaya...just kidding, not everyone gets along and sometimes you will have to defend or fight for what you believe. The past is told by those who win and the loser is often silenced. This world already has the mentality of agree with me or you are my enemy especially here in the US. Let's be real a "no-kill" MC would probably just get his party arrested or killed because they would be a pushover. |
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| Sorry I only like MCs that cut off their limbs and kill their family in front of them when they jaywalk. |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart!  |
No, it doesn't bother me... For example, I like Batman.  |
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| Not really. It can be a little frustrating when you know it's going to come back to bite them in the ass, and also a little annoying when they always do the enemy turned friend thing..But, it can make things more interesting when a character has to come up with a way to beat someone without killing. Granted in a lot of things that way is just punching the shit out of someone and not finishing the job. Which I'm ok with, but is very repetitive. I think if these fights are against villains you want to see come back, that's when the no kill thing really works best though. That's why Batman works. His villains are interesting. |
Reply to TransferUser
BirdyTheMighty said:
were the girl from?
were the girl from?
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Gou
It's a sequel to Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
| @TransferUser thanks mate, guess it's time to check it out, even though I've been avoiding it for a few years for no reason |
| Yesn't Thorfinn was good Tenma was absolutely the worst |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| I can understand the mentality; perhaps there's some connection to the postwar/occupation constitution that officially designated Japan as a pacifist nation. And from a narrative standpoint, you kind of want compelling villains to stick around and get developed as continuing threats, rather than devolving into a "badass hero mows down Rando Of The Week" story. What some series need is a more cynical/amoral "second-in-command" character that's willing to do the dirty work and take out particularly heinous villains that the protagonist declines to kill. I feel like Sanosuke from Rurouni Kenshin did this at some point, but I could be misremembering/imagining things. Even if protagonists don't want to kill, there are still other intermediate steps they could take, but refuse to do so. Like in A Cheeky Angel, which apparently takes place in a Japan where menacing thugs lurk on every street corner. Genderbent heroine Megumi and her friends understandably don't kill their foes after getting the better of them, but they could at least take a metal bar and break a few knees to prevent those same enemies from coming back and attacking them again 3 episodes later. |
| No kill rules lead to the possibility for more interesting solutions to conflicts than just "we have to kill this guy" as the character will have to come up with a way to minimize and prevent death which can be a more difficult in some situations. Killing people is easy, finding a way to stop a conflict non-lethally may be less so |
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place.  |
| Mixed feelings with that.. they know the value of life.. Let's face reality, people will save a person from killing themselves because they are broke but won't give any money to that someone who is broke.. I'm talking about the Madao relationship with his firends.. He has rich friends like kyu-Chan but he never got financial help from her.. |
| Absolutely,especially in action animes. If the story is intelligent and other ways are presented (also the MC isn't "holier-than-thou") then it has a lot of potential to be interesting. Personally I either like the extreme (Hellsing,Black Lagoon,Genocyber) or an intelligent ground (Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu,Gasaraki,86,Texhnolyze),however that all depends on the way the story & characters are made.Especially in terms of the pacifist route a lot stumble or out-right fail their concept,same goes for the other side creating one-dimensional characters with extremely stupid reasons for doing what they are doing.It's a thin line and I highly respect those who manage to thread it correctly. |
| Can I Still Go To Heaven If I Kill Myself? |
| MCs with 'no kill' policy are totally okay, but MCs with lines like "if I kill that evil and mighty villain which killed millions of people and torture my wife and kids right now then I no better than him!" are annoying as hell. |
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