Please, why does most of the fandom recommend Fate/Zero as the starting point, I just want to understand the reasoning.
Which Fate did you start with?
JReme said: salad_farded said: Who Illya is or the truth behind Kirei are supposed to be mysteries revealed Later in Stay Night. Do people not enjoy Mystery Stories anymore? FSNs Saber has alot more personality in FSN than zero as thats where her whole character arc is from, her Zero self is usually considered a different character because how differently she was written by the author of zero. I’d had to rewatch all of Zero and Stay Night to give you a precise answer, but for me Kirei is more interesting to see him in Zero and the in Stay night, as you get to see his growth from one season to the next and I feel that watching Kirei in the 5th Holy Grail is not as an interesting character if you haven’t watched Zero. And what you mention about Illya is interesting, as I do think it would be cool to feel the mistery behind her being Shirou’s sister when watching Stay night first. About Saber, to me she just wasn’t as interesting in Stay night, and her character would seem pretty empty if it weren’t for Zero. I really enjoyed how they the three kings questioned their leadership between each other, and seeing someone as noble as King Arthur having to obey someone who is the polar opposite of them. In other words, Saber is just a way more interesting character in Zero that in Stay night for me, and if it weren’t for watching Zero first Saber would of felt incredibly underwhelming. Kirei is a far less interesting in zero than what is shown in heaven's feel. The original work portrayed him as a man struggling with his inherent evil all his life knowing it was not right, only accepting himself as who he is once he sees the woman he should have loved die in front of his eyes. In contrast zero shows him as a more or less depressed bored priest going along with the flow until a godly figure spoonfeeds him the "truth" about his desires after which he becomes almost generically evil. One series just shows a basic story about self discovery except made le evil while the other depicts a man struggling with faith, love and morality all the while being aware it'll never fulfill him yet also not being willing to accept going against what he believed is right until he meets with what should be life changing tragedy. Regarding saber, zero only made her a punching bag for kiritsugu and the author's pet OC to beat around verbally. The banquet meeting is shallow as hell in general but when you compare it to what she meets in kirei's basement and on the bridge with shirou it's going against everything that makes the character good. There is no doubt about her perfection as king, this is the whole point of her character. Her beliefs are also certainly not opposite to kiritsugu's, in fact she is closer to him in execution than she is to shirou but zero retcons this to make way for a dumb out of character conflict where she gets owned by kiritsugu facts and logic because urobuchi is simply unable to write a clash of ideology between a moderate utilitarian and an extreme one If anything zero made her much less interesting pushing her as a weak king whose rule was fundamentally flawed while in reality she was the absolute perfect ruler but she was from the end of the age of gods so she was destined to fail, but the only people to blame as the trigger for that were the ones around her. None of it was her fault |
Khushal_v said: Cestlavie_ said: When I first got into Fate i was told to start from zero then watch the three routes, after I completed it, i watched the rest ,and was annoyed on how the problem isn't Fate Zero not being understandable if you watch it first, the main problem is, it hampers the enjoyment of the other mysteries from other routes imo. Also, fate zero is a prequel, we don't watch backstories/prequels of other shows before starting with main plotline for other series so why is Fate an exception. For exaample, watching the Marley backstory arc before starting the first episode of AOT or watching Better Call Saul before Breaking Bad. but fate zero is better than any fate installments ( probably except heaven's feel) it is like watching backstory which is 5 times better than actual story first and also spoiler works both way no matter from wherever you start you are gonna be spoiled about something like watching unlimited bladework will spoil fate zero Even ignoring how dumb it is to care about "spoiling" zero's ending, there is no real payoff to not knowing how zero ends before watching, it never thematically concludes and none of the character arcs conclude in a meaningful way except for waver who is never relevant again outside his spinoff. All of the themes present throughout zero are only written in because they were taken from the visual novel that came out before it, which is where they're properly explored over all 3 routes and given their proper conclusions. The only thing one can deduce from watching zero first is some banal borderline fatalist message that you'd expect to see from a teenager attempting to philosophize |
kierowca_ubera said: zero is reccomened as first cause, well, it was kinda first (aside from fate 2006). And chronologically it is first. That is, anime-wise. Novels came out in a different order. Hence the misunderstanding Zero came out third if we're just going by the "core" titles (Fate/Stay Night, Fate/hollow ataraxia and then Fate/Zero) and if we're looking at Fate as a whole, there were multiple spin-offs of Fate/Stay Night that came out pre-Zero, like Comic Battle, Comic Anthology, the Fate chapters of Take Moon and even Fate/School Life came out before it. Both the anime and manga adaptations of Fate/Stay Night predate Zero. The franchise was already pretty established before Zero. And chronological order doesn't matter, would you start Star Wars with KOTOR just because it takes place first, or watch the flashback scenes in a movie before the rest of it? Just because it takes place earlier doesn't mean you need to start it earlier. |
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| because they're idiots that wanna spoil the enjoyment of watching fate/stay night imo watching zero first ruins some of the mystery and storytelling of stay night. |
Khushal_v said: offcrack said: Even ignoring how dumb it is to care about "spoiling" zero's ending, there is no real payoff to not knowing how zero ends before watching, it never thematically concludes and none of the character arcs conclude in a meaningful way except for waver who is never relevant again outside his spinoff. All of the themes present throughout zero are only written in because they were taken from the visual novel that came out before it, which is where they're properly explored over all 3 routes and given their proper conclusions. The only thing one can deduce from watching zero first is some banal borderline fatalist message that you'd expect to see from a teenager attempting to philosophize what about character Arc of rider,uryuu etc many characters got incredible character development which only exist in fate zero and is as good as all 3 routes combined only waver, kiritsugu and somewhat kirei got development. most of the cast didnt develop at all, they have the philosophy stuff thats attached to them to make them interesting but thats it. |
| Read the visual novel nerd |
Khushal_v said: offcrack said: Even ignoring how dumb it is to care about "spoiling" zero's ending, there is no real payoff to not knowing how zero ends before watching, it never thematically concludes and none of the character arcs conclude in a meaningful way except for waver who is never relevant again outside his spinoff. All of the themes present throughout zero are only written in because they were taken from the visual novel that came out before it, which is where they're properly explored over all 3 routes and given their proper conclusions. The only thing one can deduce from watching zero first is some banal borderline fatalist message that you'd expect to see from a teenager attempting to philosophize what about character Arc of rider,uryuu etc many characters got incredible character development which only exist in fate zero and is as good as all 3 routes combined Well I'm going to need you to name the development of uryuu besides him seeing his own guts and thinking they were the most beautiful (real mature and dark cuz gore btw wow). Rider has "development" but none that compares to anything from FSN, every single servant in the 5th war was more fleshed out including true assassin who appeared for only one route. The rest of the characters, masters? I don't know, there's kariya whose whole life was misery porn but that's all I can think of when I think of notable characters. I can't think of anything else resembling "incredible character development" as you put it that happens inside zero at all let alone anything on the level of growth the FSN cast is subjected to. You're welcome to provide examples and your reasoning though |
Khushal_v said: offcrack said: Well I'm going to need you to name the development of uryuu besides him seeing his own guts and thinking they were the most beautiful (real mature and dark cuz gore btw wow). Rider has "development" but none that compares to anything from FSN, every single servant in the 5th war was more fleshed out including true assassin who appeared for only one route. The rest of the characters, masters? I don't know, there's kariya whose whole life was misery porn but that's all I can think of when I think of notable characters. I can't think of anything else resembling "incredible character development" as you put it that happens inside zero at all let alone anything on the level of growth the FSN cast is subjected to. You're welcome to provide examples and your reasoning though think about the contrast between kerei and emiya at beginning of story emiya was portrayed as villain whereas kerei was hero-like character but by the end after seeing backstory of emiya and kerei being manipulated by Gilgamesh both became morally grey character and final fight between these 2 was one of best of fate it may not be as grand as other final battle of fate but it was most memorable one for me I didn't feel kiritsugu was ever shown as a villain. He always labeled himself and was always labeled a hero. But no the character of kiritsugu is directly lifted from the visual novel and isn't a zero creation, zero just shows some of his behavior, albeit zero's version of kiritsugu is softer than he was intended to be. I can see why kirei could give off the protagonist vibe but he got pushed to the sidelines so fast that it was pretty obvious he was not the one you were meant to root for Gilgamesh never rly manipulated either character tho, in fact he never interacts with kiritsugu to my memory. He just "explained" kirei what he really wanted but this was done much better in fsn both regarding themes and characterization Adding onto that kirei is really never morally gray. He is 100% evil and that's kind of his whole thing Even with all this, shirou and kirei are the true contrasting figures of the story, not kirei and kiritsugu. In the first place kirei believing kiritsugu to be like him was always a mistake. There is a very good reason why kirei dies to kiritsugu with a look of agony on his face while his death to shirou in heaven's feel has him grin in satisfaction in his final moment |
offcrack said: I have yet to read any Fate, but I find your claim easy to believe after my past experiences with both Urobuchi and Nasu.The irony being that fate zero is the series much much closer to appealing to the lowest common denominator than fsn is |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Because for some reason there are a lot of people that approach media as chronological order or nothing. |
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| the correct order to understand fate series is PLAY THE FUCKING FATE/STAY NIGHT VISUAL NOVEL....!!!! why they recommended zero first is because they never play the visual novel. The developer/author intent to make zero assuming the player/watcher play visual novel first to fully understand. Note : Fate route (saber route) is done well in visual novel, it's my best route than UBW and HF. I'm disappointed when they not fully adapted her route on Studio Deen anime. |
  What Does Pot of Greed do?  |
| It´s the best out of all of them and it´s also a Prequel like OP said. As a side note: I never understood the argument in favor of artificial mysteries. Ordering things around for the heck of it is mostly a bug, not a feature imho. There are few series (e.g. Baccano) where it makes sense. |
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Faceleze said: Because the proper place to start is the first ever Fate storyline, which is the "Fate" route of Fate/Stay Night. However, the anime that adapts that story is very unfaithful to the source material. Because of this, the best place to start with fate is the original Visual Novel. Because at the moment there's no faithful animated adaptation. Sadly, most people are not interesting in reading the novel. Most prefer just watching anime. Given that, they have two choices imo: Watching a dated and unfaithful adaptation or the first story, or watching Fate/Zero which can serve as a better starting point for most people because it explains most of the important concepts of the world in the first episode. Unlike UBW and HF, that assumes you already know all the basics. I did start with the Fate stay night anime and i think it's decent. but i do understand why many prefer to watch Zero first. Probably the best explanation I've ever heard on why people choose Fate zero first. |
 Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
OiantakuYT said: It´s the best out of all of them and it´s also a Prequel like OP said. As a side note: I never understood the argument in favor of artificial mysteries. Ordering things around for the heck of it is mostly a bug, not a feature imho. There are few series (e.g. Baccano) where it makes sense. Should I even ask what the hell an "artificial mystery" is? How is this relevant to fsn and this thread? Actually what a sstupid post in its entirety |
| Watching Fate Zero made me enjoy the rest of fate better. It gave a really good idea of what to expect from Fate and clearly explained a lot of things essential to Fate UBW. To some this might seem like spoiling which is understandable, but to me it didn't spoil a thing, it just gave me relevant world-building so I can be even more enthralled by the new story. I don't think I would have liked the characters as much as I did if I didn't see Zero. I understand why it might be better to watch Zero after, but I have no issues with starting it first and am grateful that I did. |
  ⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ Don't try and get me to cook I can take care of anything else but not that ⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ |
| If I could undo time I would not start from F/Z but F/Z is what made me interested to watch the rest of Fate series sooooo..... |
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JReme said: salad_farded said: Who Illya is or the truth behind Kirei are supposed to be mysteries revealed Later in Stay Night. Do people not enjoy Mystery Stories anymore? FSNs Saber has alot more personality in FSN than zero as thats where her whole character arc is from, her Zero self is usually considered a different character because how differently she was written by the author of zero. I’d had to rewatch all of Zero and Stay Night to give you a precise answer, but for me Kirei is more interesting to see him in Zero and the in Stay night, as you get to see his growth from one season to the next and I feel that watching Kirei in the 5th Holy Grail is not as an interesting character if you haven’t watched Zero. And what you mention about Illya is interesting, as I do think it would be cool to feel the mistery behind her being Shirou’s sister when watching Stay night first. About Saber, to me she just wasn’t as interesting in Stay night, and her character would seem pretty empty if it weren’t for Zero. I really enjoyed how they the three kings questioned their leadership between each other, and seeing someone as noble as King Arthur having to obey someone who is the polar opposite of them. In other words, Saber is just a way more interesting character in Zero that in Stay night for me, and if it weren’t for watching Zero first Saber would of felt incredibly underwhelming. A tad late but seeing Saber as an empty character is because you only watched Ufotable's adaptations, you basically skipped the one third of the story that focuses on her There, she still faces the dilemma about her leadership, but this time, iirc from zero, actually learns how to deal with it. Give Fate a read or a watch. |
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