Please, why does most of the fandom recommend Fate/Zero as the starting point, I just want to understand the reasoning.
Which Fate did you start with?
| When I first got into Fate i was told to start from zero then watch the three routes, after I completed it, i watched the rest ,and was annoyed on how the problem isn't Fate Zero not being understandable if you watch it first, the main problem is, it hampers the enjoyment of the other mysteries from other routes imo. Also, fate zero is a prequel, we don't watch backstories/prequels of other shows before starting with main plotline for other series so why is Fate an exception. For exaample, watching the Marley backstory arc before starting the first episode of AOT or watching Better Call Saul before Breaking Bad. |
Cestlavie_Apr 23, 2023 12:42 PM
| Well , there is a lot of (bad) reasons. - Zero Anime was released before UBW & HF Animes , and the 2006 Anime isn't done by Ufotable so it's skipped by default. - Most peoples don't know/like Visual Novels , and how they works. - Zero is a Prequel , and not many peoples know what "Prequel" actually means. (They think it means you have to watch it first.) - Zero has Kiritsugu , a sad edgy old man as protagonist. - Zero is a tragedy with thriller aspect , while Stay Night is an epic story with slow burn mysteries. (Peoples like thriller , not mysteries.) - Shirô isn't a likeable protagonist , and the Animes didn't really helped by cutting his monologues. (He isn't supposed to be likeable to begin with , but most peoples won't understand that.) - Too many peoples have been recommending Zero over everything else for more than a decade now , and it's too late to make everyone understand it. (And shitty clickbait sites listing the chronology of some Animes doesn't help.) Anyway , it's literally impossible to stop that , and we can just answer to some of the billions threads asking about the order while hoping that the OP take the right decision. It's truly sad , but well , other franchises will soon join Fate with this... (It's currently happening for Steins;Gate , with peoples recommending 0 between Episode 22 & 23 of the original since a few years...) |
 "Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... & hungry." – Alexioos95. |
MaxAkumax said: Cestlavie_ said: When I first got into Fate i was told to start from zero then watch the three routes, after I completed it, i watched the rest ,and was annoyed on how the problem isn't Fate Zero not being understandable if you watch it first, the main problem is, it hampers the enjoyment of the other mysteries from other routes imo. Also, fate zero is a prequel, we don't watch backstories/prequels of other shows before starting with main plotline for other series so why is Fate an exception. For exaample, watching the Marley arc before starting the first episode of AOT or watching Better Call Saul before Breaking Bad. I think people start with zero because it's the best way to start the fate series. I started with Zero and I'm very grateful for it. It introduced the holy grail war system, the main characters that become more important during the other routes etc. Lots of people just continously say that it spoils UBW but it didn't feel even remotely close that way. On the contrary, it made some things clearer and more logical in UBW and heaven's feel for me. P.S. Marley arc is not a prequel arc so ofc you can't watch it before AoT ep 1 meant the Marley backstory arc forgot the name |
MaxAkumax said: On the contrary, it made some things clearer and more logical in UBW and heaven's feel for me. And that's exactly the problem. Fate/Stay Night is a slow-burn mystery story , with those mysteries being splitted in 3 whole Routes. You are supposed to be confused , it's done on purpose. (Nasu love doing this , as seen on Kara no Kyoukai.) MaxAkumax said: P.S. Marley arc is not a prequel arc so ofc you can't watch it before AoT ep 1 OP probably meant the basement reveal , with the flashback of Grisha. It also works with Before The Fall. |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... & hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Alexioos95 said: Well , there is a lot of (bad) reasons. - Zero Anime was released before UBW & HF Animes , and the 2006 Anime isn't done by Ufotable so it's skipped by default. - Most peoples don't know/like Visual Novels , and how they works. - Zero is a Prequel , and not many peoples know what "Prequel" actually means. (They think it means you have to watch it first.) - Zero has Kiritsugu , a sad edgy old man as protagonist. - Zero is a tragedy with thriller aspect , while Stay Night is an epic story with slow burn mysteries. (Peoples like thriller , not mysteries.) - Shirô isn't a likeable protagonist , and the Animes didn't really helped by cutting his monologues. (He isn't supposed to be likeable to begin with , but most peoples won't understand that.) - Too many peoples have been recommending Zero over everything else for more than a decade now , and it's too late to make everyone understand it. (And shitty clickbait sites listing the chronology of some Animes doesn't help.) Anyway , it's literally impossible to stop that , and we can just answer to some of the billions threads asking about the order while hoping that the OP take the right decision. It's truly sad , but well , other franchises will soon join Fate with this... (It's currently happening for Steins;Gate , with peoples recommending 0 between Episode 22 & 23 of the original since a few years...) Yh especially those watch order websites, they are so confusing and 90% of the time recommend the wrong thing. first I'm hearing of the Steins Gate thing though |
Cestlavie_ said: first I'm hearing of the Steins Gate thing though It's maddening. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2084296 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2082541 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2080970 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2079565 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2069994 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2060366 It's mostly peoples who are new to Animes suggesting to watch 0 between Episode 22 & 23 of the original because it feels as if it really does happens like that chronologically. (It doesn't , 0 is a Prequel...) There was even a group of peoples making graphs to try to prove that it's more satisfying to do that... A shame it only happens with such series , it would be fun to do that with Shingeki no Kyojin , One Piece or Naruto to see the reactions of fans. |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... & hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Alexioos95 said: Cestlavie_ said: first I'm hearing of the Steins Gate thing though It's maddening. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2084296 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2082541 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2080970 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2079565 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2069994 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2060366 It's mostly peoples who are new to Animes suggesting to watch 0 between Episode 22 & 23 of the original because it feels as if it really does happens like that chronologically. (It doesn't , 0 is a Prequel...) There was even a group of peoples making graphs to try to prove that it's more satisfying to do that... A shame it only happens with such series , it would be fun to do that with Shingeki no Kyojin , One Piece or Naruto to see the reactions of fans. My gosh Don't know why some fans must watch things in "chronological order" for them to think they'll get the ultimate enjoyment same thing with Monogatari, people call us pretentious for recommending the official order the order in which the LNs were even written. Just so they can watch it chronologically |
| Because people are dumb and because people think Fate/Zero is the best series. |
Taguri said: Zero is just best part of the fate series. I fail to see a reason not to start with zero. its not the best. theres plenty of reasons not to start with it and most of them have already been used prequal, spin off, spoilers etc. |
| Read the visual novel nerd |
| zero is reccomened as first cause, well, it was kinda first (aside from fate 2006). And chronologically it is first. That is, anime-wise. Novels came out in a different order. Hence the misunderstanding |
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| I don't get it either. There are prequels out there that are designed to be entry points for long franchises but Fate/Zero is not one of them. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| Why do people recommend the Star Wars Prequels as the starting point. Because it's the canonical beginning of the story even though it spoils that Anakin is Darth Vader but it still is the easiest way to consume the franchise. Same goes with Fate, starting with Zero spoils you know what but it's the least complicated way of starting and understanding it. But it is also okay if you start with the original trilogy and then watch the prequels, this saves you from one plot twist but spoils sideous' identity. It is the originally intended way of consumption but is far more convoluted. Same goes with Fate, if you start with stay night you won't get spoiled for the big plot twist in HF but you will also understand a bit less of the world and it's inner workings and jumping into the past after you finish something to continue in the franchise is just a weird and convoluted feeling. And at the end of the day who cares where one starts. As long as they get into fate and it's beautiful world why care where they started if they end up at the same goal. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk and don't get pissed about where people want to start a series. |
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| Because it's "chronologically" the first (of the bigger stories with anime adaptations). Though honestly that's a really bad reason. It's a prequel written assuming you already know what happens in stay night, UBW and HF. So no it isn't "the best starting point". It's an ok starting point but honestly just start where the story actually starts with the three stay night routes. |
| I watched Zero first on my own volition because UBW made absolutely no sense for three episodes straight, and I was struggling to see what made it one of the best anime of all time according to Fate fans. At least Fate / Zero explained what was going on and didn't revel in making its audience completely lost. |
Pillsbury_Uchiha said: because it comes first in timeline only its last in the way you were meant to consume the story by the authors |
| Read the visual novel nerd |
| One name: Yuki Kajiura |
| “I won’t rely on anyone anymore. I don’t care if no one understands.” – Homura Akemi |
| This stuff happens cuz people just WANT to be secondaries for some bizarre reason and also cuz a far too large cut of the fate fanbase is zero fans and I mean exclusively zero fans who consider their story the highest quality despite objectively having the most glaring writing issues and shit on every other fate entry because zero gave them the impression that fate is an edgewank of sorts, so the tonal shift from a battle shounen esque action thriller to a mystery focused character study with tons of lighthearted buildup leading up to a climax ends up filtering them. The irony being that fate zero is the series much much closer to appealing to the lowest common denominator than fsn is, so yes as the zerobabies say if you enjoyed zero your enjoyment of fsn will very likely be lesser but not because the writing quality dropped but because fsn is simply much more high brow and fsn is barely high brow (it beats you over the head with its message in the vn), that's not a compliment to fsn but an insult to zero |
| I started with F/Z because it was the only ufotable work I could watch after completing The Garden of Sinners. I might have started with UBW if that had been out at the time. I don't think it ruined the experience, but the shift does feel too jarring. I wasn't aware that FSN was a multi-route VN at the time, so it was a bit disappointing when my favorite character arcs were brushed aside. Especially seeing Saber go from a noble knight to a waifu bait side chick. That was a massive downgrade. Anyway, it would be like watching the Rurouni Kenshin prequel OVA first, then starting the TV series not knowing that it's a battle shounen. |
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JReme said: Who Illya is or the truth behind Kirei are supposed to be mysteries revealed Later in Stay Night.For me Fate Zero is a better starting point as when you watch Stay Night you don’t understand anything, for example who Illya is or understand Kirei’s growth. For me it is far more interesting to watch Zero and connect everything while watching Stay Night later on. Still, I don’t think watching Stay Night first is a bad idea, I just think that starting with Zero just makes things much easier to understand. I would also like to add, that watching Fate in chronological order is better than having to jump back in time to understand what you just watched. Oh and also, watching Kiritsugu’s story unfold before Shirou’s is more interesting I think, as it is easier to compare both father and son if you know everything that happened in the 4th Holy Grail War, and you also understand Saber’s views better if you watch Zero first, as Saber has a lot less personality in Stay Night. Do people not enjoy Mystery Stories anymore? FSNs Saber has alot more personality in FSN than zero as thats where her whole character arc is from, her Zero self is usually considered a different character because how differently she was written by the author of zero. |
| Read the visual novel nerd |
| I personally don’t think it matters that much. Fate/Zero is a masterpiece though so I’d recommend it first so as not to be spoiled (they tell you how it Fate ended in UBW as Zero came first. UBW makes more sense if you’ve seen Zero first.) That’s just personal preference. I watched UBW first and wasn’t confused. But def recommend Zero over it. By a lot. |
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INSANELYWP said: Its not complicated, its the fans that make it complicatedbecause fate is really complicated and zero is good at explaining how everything works |
| Read the visual novel nerd |
Philleotardo1954 said: People like mysteries They don't , atleast not with the Fate Series. Just read this thread , how many peoples said that UBW was "confusing" ? INSANELYWP said: nah bruh what are u saying ur literally put into a world not explained anything about mages and heroes and the holy grail war and also about family dynamics. yeah it’s complicated… Those are mysteries. The world , with what mages , heroes summoned , and the ritual of the holy grail war in general is explained through the whole 1st Route (The 2006 Anime) , with more precision in HF. As for the family dynamics , they tell you the very basic from the start : Kiritusugu is the foster father of Shirô , Taiga is the foster mother/sister of Shirô and was a friend of Kiritusugu , Shinji is "friend" with Shirô and is the brother of Sakura , which is a Kouhai of Shirô. Everything else is mysteries that gets revealed through the 1st Route , UBW & HF. At every revelation , you are supposed to be "Oh my god , for real ?!" , especially for everything surrounding Sakura. |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... & hungry." – Alexioos95. |
| I was told to watch it that way and I’m glad I did. I think that watch order provided the best all around experience |
INSANELYWP said: that doesn’t make it not complicated. It's not "complicated" , it's "confusing". And all the Nasuverse is like that , be it Kara no Kyoukai or Tsukihime , you are given the infos only partially , and at points separated by a lot of events. It's not much different for how the Monogatari Series works , and you seems to love that... |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... & hungry." – Alexioos95. |
| Fate/Zero is to help you understand more about the Holy Grail War (the main event), basically it will help you to understand better of the situation in Fate/Stay Night. |
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