Same old formula!!!!

Apr 24, 2023 3:39 AM

Offline

May 2020

199

haruosh8 said:

CoffeewithEdgawa said:
Today i watched makoto shinkai's suzume no tojimari and the first question came in my mind was can't this guy make something new??
In his all movies random guy meet random girl,they fall in love,disaster,put radwimps ost & super natural being,the end.this is makoto shinkai for u.
I feel like everytime his movies are saved by it’s amazing visuals & soothing songs,not for the story plot.I didn’t rate the movie low bcz u can't say the movie itself is just trash.I just want to Point that why the same formula in all movies..Let's try or create something new dude...

I respectfully disagree. While he does make similar movies (there's no doubt that that's a warranted criticism), this one was quite different in it's theming. I would even argue the whole romance aspect actually takes a backseat, and is his best work yet. Not only is it an ode to ghibli in its numerous references and stylistic choice, but to some of his previous films as well, with all these aspects lending well to the themes of courage, recognizing the past, and overcoming it/building something new. And that's exactly what I think he did: create a movie that's a love letter to the past, while doing it distinctly his way. Personally, this hit particularly close in its use of the 2011 earthquake (also with reference to the great Kanto earthquake) mixed in with shinkai's usual supernatural visuals. I still remember phoning my family the day of to see if they were safe as I watched events unfold on tv. That aside, the visuals were beautiful as always, and everything else was pretty good too (besides maybe the characters not being so strong).

i actually felt this is the worst film of his career the characters are so bad and I don't understand why but this movie felt very repetitive like they go and try to close doors which happened 3-4 times in this movie and seeing it every 15 minutes of the movie really felt boring

also another point i saw that some jokes are repeated like the joke with the fact that the cat can talk and people around react i understand that any sane people will react like that but do we really need to see them reacting every single time like with her aunt tamaki and serizawa only the joke was repeated twice
with the kids another time and many more

also i don't know why but when a character gets surprised they shout ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......! so loud when it is not something to get surprised about so fucking much to shout out ehhhhhhh... so loudy

also in my theatre after the movie ended everyone just went up and left no clap no conversation i felt that no one really enjoyed the movie the visuals can take you to a certain extent but what about the characters and emotion?? i never felt a single shred of emotion for anything the sole reason behind that was a boring ass flat characters and no proper character dynamics in tenki no ko the trio of hodaka hina and her brother nagi was so good as they work together but here with a fucking chair and a cat who walks in and walks out

i can rant about this movie all day and i really feel my money was wasted on this ass movie

Apr 24, 2023 9:07 AM

#52

paulagomes

Offline

May 2021

4

TheCupSlammer said:

CoffeewithEdgawa said:
Today i watched makoto shinkai's suzume no tojimari and the first question came in my mind was can't this guy make something new??
In his all movies random guy meet random girl,they fall in love,disaster,put radwimps ost & super natural being,the end.this is makoto shinkai for u.
I feel like everytime his movies are saved by it’s amazing visuals & soothing songs,not for the story plot.I didn’t rate the movie low bcz u can't say the movie itself is just trash.I just want to Point that why the same formula in all movies..Let's try or create something new dude...

i agree to some extent, but i feel like they all have enough of a unique touch in their concepts that allows them to stand appart from the others

slaaaaaaay queen

Apr 24, 2023 5:41 PM

#53

dograzor

Offline

Jun 2022

30

It's a very enjoyable popcorn flick, and one that ticks mass audience expectation boxes, play well internationally and will make Mr Shinkai - and his investors - a LOT of money. I get what you're saying, but the 'formula' works!

Do I prefer directors who take more risks, and are more creative? I sure do, but they struggle to get funding and commercial success regardless of quality if not Ghibli/Shinkai/Hosoda type fantasy movies - even for visionary directors of the standard of Satoshi Kon, Masaaki Yuasa and Naoko Yamada

Apr 25, 2023 4:05 AM

#54

pnr2

Offline

Jul 2021

21

I agree there is formula

shinkai follows one formula and other person follows another formula but we need to understand that formula is simply a mixture and formation of techniques which are used to show what ever creator has decided
SKILLS IN FORMATION IS FORMULA.

but for what formula is used??
Formula always used to share something, that something can be simply a story, idea, message or learning.

So why shinkai don't make new formation of skills or add new skills in formation??
That something which shinkai shares with public is more mythological ideas and learning's with some mssg through character mean mssg from shinkai
Mythological ideas and learning with shinkai mssg to public.
So with this rich content (mythological things with shinkai mssg)
Shinkai have to create simple yet correct version in efficient time because money is invested into it shinkai also have to make sure this beautiful earns also
So here is economical reason and love ( love can't be time limited and that's what his doing making something which can stays after him - means shinkai Movies are not just money making product not only to fill shinkais pokect its more than that its there to make you realize that you are not the only one who is suffering we all are but if you have decided and ready to get out of suffering, its possible.
Shinkai is presenting very helpful subjects which will stay even if shinkai goes even if pocket of shinkai is not there to fill but even then movie will stay for us.
and trust me this is very time consuming process which no investors allow and without investment movie is not possible, movies without love in it are not worth to put efforts in it
But shinkai decided to pull of it and heres formula helps to fulfil economical and love criterias fulfilled.

is it worth putting more efforts even after shinkai doing so much lovely work??
Nope, new formula takes time and his may be gives less importance in structure and more importance to richness of content he is working on and I think due to which we got 3 awesome lovely movie from shinkai otherwise we probably get very less movies and time don't stops so maybe shinkai shinkai die out and his vision never got to our eyes
So I'm okay if formula is same because he is not up for presenting new formulas his up for higher lovely purpose

So I like to draw your attention on purpose because formula is always there but purpose and especially higher purpose Is what we respect not formation of skills there is nothing
Pointing out formation is like judging book from cover, screeching surface of coconut, living someone with who got attractive outter cover,
Look deeper into it and then point out
After knowing whole thing
Maybe you find there is nothing then just structure like we seen in recent marvel movies,
Or you find core, essence, or main thing we can call it content. if movie is just not structure or movies main core thing or essence is not structure then this discussion is for no good
Then this discussion will be more like someone is dead and we are recalling his or her appears which he or her never choosen
And we are totally ignoring fact that dead persons body is not we are connected we were connect with relationship
So I think after watching suzume we should recall more on essence then other things which are literally out of hands

Apr 26, 2023 1:23 AM

#55

LeoDrago

Offline

May 2021

561

I get your post but his movies are still good. I’d say this is probably his second best work. I do hope he branches out and tries something new next time tho

Apr 26, 2023 4:35 AM

#56

Mac_stuff_

Offline

Sep 2021

7

CoffeewithEdgawa said:
Today i watched makoto shinkai's suzume no tojimari and the first question came in my mind was can't this guy make something new??
In his all movies random guy meet random girl,they fall in love,disaster,put radwimps ost & super natural being,the end.this is makoto shinkai for u.
I feel like everytime his movies are saved by it’s amazing visuals & soothing songs,not for the story plot.I didn’t rate the movie low bcz u can't say the movie itself is just trash.I just want to Point that why the same formula in all movies..Let's try or create something new dude...

It did felt kinda boring

Apr 26, 2023 10:21 AM

#57

Infatuate

Offline

Dec 2012

1596

These are movies for the lowest common denominator in anime, aka all the new, easily impressionable anime viewers.

Don't be surprised, let them enjoy what they enjoy in silence. Ignorance is bliss as they say~

I don't watch as much anime as before...

Apr 26, 2023 10:29 AM

#58

CoffeewithEdgawa

Offline

Apr 2023

24

Infatuate said:
These are movies for the lowest common denominator in anime, aka all the new, easily impressionable anime viewers.

Don't be surprised, let them enjoy what they enjoy in silence. Ignorance is bliss as they say~

I just wrote some facts about the movie and those shinkai fans get so triggered that the MAL moderators had to delete their comments.when they will see yours...😂😂
man u are finished....😂

Apr 27, 2023 2:10 PM

#59

GToast

Offline

Jul 2013

56

Yeah ofc the formula is still the same since they are literally printing FREE MONEY.

Take a look at the numbers, I don't think the formula is gonna change anytime soon.
At the end of the day, it's really only people like us here on MAL that care about changing up the formula and hoping for something "new".

However, we are not even remotely the majority of people that will watch and pay for this movie.
It's the average person that simply expects this to be another visual spectacle like his recent movies combined with a bombastic soundtrack and some tearjerker moments.

That's all they need to deliver in order to sell this.

Apr 28, 2023 5:19 AM

#60

WilliUHHm

Offline

Jul 2021

1

The entire premise and focus of Suzume was completely different to his previous works.
Although his prior works have similar "themes" such as romance, the details and historical references are all completely different in each movie he does

Apr 28, 2023 8:29 AM

#61

Full_anime_Fan

Offline

Oct 2019

1456

This movie has already depicted that not only is Shinkai tired of repeatedly copyrighting himself but also now looking towards achievements of other studios without understanding why they are successful in the first place and the difference between their anime and his. Pandering to specific age groups is not a new thing with shinkai movies either.

バンの一味

Apr 28, 2023 2:28 PM

#62

ExiledDiclonius

Offline

Jun 2011

13

Who want to bet that ending of next movie will be: boy saves girl or other way around, then MC's love interest will have to leave for a week/month/year just to get reunited on slope or stairs XD

Apr 28, 2023 6:58 PM

#63

Ubinas

Offline

Apr 2022

10

He's not gonna change the formula anytime soon, as its working very nicely for him

even Miyazaki has pretty much stuck to his formula as it's been very successful (same ingredients, assembled in different ways - everything in spring/summer, appealing characters, oozy and very nostalgic feel). Takahata pushed way further artistically, but with less success, same with Kpn or Yuasa, the sweet spot where the money is for anime movies is family friendly / YA fantasy like Shinkai, Miyazaki, Hosoda - going outside the lane (like the wind rises) will cause a drop in audience compared to previous works even if not necessarily lesser movies

May 8, 2023 9:18 PM

#64

kronopy

Offline

Dec 2014

1014

This was very different from what he made before. Moreover, this formula isn't even a Shinkai thing, is a pretty normal formula for most romance. Romance always usually starts with an encounter - same in the real life. Moreover, the dude developed a formula over 2 decades that worked very well for him. Look, this movie made 350 million dollars. Is a business my dude. Millions of dollars are invested into making such anime, and you want to make that money back, and investors want to make a profit. Any flop can basically result in bankruptcy. Moreover, this doesn't even have much to do with Shinkai actually. He wanted this movie to be about Suzume and another girl traveling around the country, but his director and investors felt that it was too risky, and there was still juice in the formula he had. He made the dude a chair specifically because he didn't want the story to be focused on romance. Moreover, peoples go to Shinkai movies because they know what to expect, not to watch an action movie or historical drama. I can bet, that the moment Shinkai truly moves from romance, you guys will complain about that or see it as pointless. I don't see what else than romance can Shinkai do with his art style and aesthetic.

And the reality is that there isn't really any romance in this movie. Yeah, Suzume develop a crush on Souta, but it doesn't really look like is reciprocated, at least not until the very end.

May 12, 2023 9:47 PM

#65

Bjornaman

Offline

Jul 2019

7

haruosh8 said:

CoffeewithEdgawa said:
Today i watched makoto shinkai's suzume no tojimari and the first question came in my mind was can't this guy make something new??
In his all movies random guy meet random girl,they fall in love,disaster,put radwimps ost & super natural being,the end.this is makoto shinkai for u.
I feel like everytime his movies are saved by it’s amazing visuals & soothing songs,not for the story plot.I didn’t rate the movie low bcz u can't say the movie itself is just trash.I just want to Point that why the same formula in all movies..Let's try or create something new dude...

I respectfully disagree. While he does make similar movies (there's no doubt that that's a warranted criticism), this one was quite different in it's theming. I would even argue the whole romance aspect actually takes a backseat, and is his best work yet. Not only is it an ode to ghibli in its numerous references and stylistic choice, but to some of his previous films as well, with all these aspects lending well to the themes of courage, recognizing the past, and overcoming it/building something new. And that's exactly what I think he did: create a movie that's a love letter to the past, while doing it distinctly his way. Personally, this hit particularly close in its use of the 2011 earthquake (also with reference to the great Kanto earthquake) mixed in with shinkai's usual supernatural visuals. I still remember phoning my family the day of to see if they were safe as I watched events unfold on tv. That aside, the visuals were beautiful as always, and everything else was pretty good too (besides maybe the characters not being so strong).

I totally agree with this. I also believe it's his best work yet. Kimi no na wa was about finding love through fate. Similarly theamed Tenki no Ko was about finding love by fighting fate. Suzume is neither of these. It's a movie that shows us the importance of remembering the past and sometimes having to come to a decision to settle the past by closing doors. This story is mainly about showing the forgotten places and how no one remembers them, and even more, this is a story that leads suzume to closing a door of her own in the very end. Of her mother's death from the earthquake in 2011. No one or nothing wants to die or be forgotten and yet that's the reality. Not even when it comes to God's. (Sadaijin and Daijin)
The romantic aspect is not the main focus of the story and I think most people are misunderstanding the meaning of the movie. Remember the past, but be brave enough to remember and close off the doors of that time. Everyone has doors they need to reflect on and move on from just as Suzume did in the very end.

BjornamanMay 12, 2023 9:55 PM

May 14, 2023 3:49 AM

#66

miblan

Offline

Feb 2021

119

It was a beautiful movie, but I started looking at my watch halfway through.
Nothing really new. I enjoyed it, but nothing surprised me.

This is a cartoon site, you clown. Elitism in general is cringe enough already. Let people enjoy stuff.
Reminder to stay hydrated and read Umineko No Naku Koro Ni

May 14, 2023 3:55 AM

#67

BetaMaleUltra

scientia exitus

Offline

Mar 2020

5727

We need more of the garden of words formula: MILFs and FEET

NYANPASU

5700XT

May 18, 2023 12:06 PM

#68

Sch4n

Offline

Oct 2020

113

CoffeewithEdgawa said:
Today i watched makoto shinkai's suzume no tojimari and the first question came in my mind was can't this guy make something new??
In his all movies random guy meet random girl,they fall in love,disaster,put radwimps ost & super natural being,the end.this is makoto shinkai for u.
I feel like everytime his movies are saved by it’s amazing visuals & soothing songs,not for the story plot.I didn’t rate the movie low bcz u can't say the movie itself is just trash.I just want to Point that why the same formula in all movies..Let's try or create something new dude...

It's like going to a authentic Italian pizza restaurant and asking them why they are making the same pizzas. It's good but why can't they just make some big Mac and fries and some Hawaiian pineapple pizza.

If you go to an authentic Italian pizza restaurant in Italy and say this to them right now they will most probably beat the shit out of you.

It's the same with Makoto's work. You can't go to a pizza restaurant and ask them why they are not making big Macs, similarly you can't come to Makoto-San and say why he isn't changing his recipe.

Everyone don't have to love everything. It's not one fault that they didn't like something. But returning to that thing over and over and saying you didn't like it and it's bad is a really shitty thing to do.

If you don't like pizza then don't eat it. Don't go to a pizza restaurant and eat there and then complain why it's a pizza and why it's not a big Mac.

If you don't like Makoto-San's work then don't watch it, no one is forcing you. There are plenty of shows in the sea of anime. If your test is different it's cool. But don't complain why Makoto-San's work feels like his work.

May 28, 2023 1:58 AM

#69

Sekiro94

Offline

Aug 2020

337

CoffeewithEdgawa said:
Today i watched makoto shinkai's suzume no tojimari and the first question came in my mind was can't this guy make something new??
In his all movies random guy meet random girl,they fall in love,disaster,put radwimps ost & super natural being,the end.this is makoto shinkai for u.
I feel like everytime his movies are saved by it’s amazing visuals & soothing songs,not for the story plot.I didn’t rate the movie low bcz u can't say the movie itself is just trash.I just want to Point that why the same formula in all movies..Let's try or create something new dude...

Suzume character was pretty much annoying and screaming mc guy name whole movie, she wanted to sacrifise herself for him like she knows him whole life that felt dumb, plus bro was like 80% of movie in chair condition xd. Tho mc guy was boring too. Action scene were few and they were bland and boring. Rest of movie i almost fall asleep. Only what keeps this movie was visuals and soundtrack.

May 30, 2023 10:30 AM

#70

GIGABYTE-San

Offline

Jul 2021

1

CoffeewithEdgawa said:
Today i watched makoto shinkai's suzume no tojimari and the first question came in my mind was can't this guy make something new??
In his all movies random guy meet random girl,they fall in love,disaster,put radwimps ost & super natural being,the end.this is makoto shinkai for u.
I feel like everytime his movies are saved by it’s amazing visuals & soothing songs,not for the story plot.I didn’t rate the movie low bcz u can't say the movie itself is just trash.I just want to Point that why the same formula in all movies..Let's try or create something new dude...

I think the problem is that this along with all of the other works of Makotos’ is targeted towards the general consumer of anime, the people that would go to the cinema to watch a cute little film for once and not really think about it much, it’s made to appeal the world standards. Whereas the people in Japan that actually have watched a lot of anime and many of the work of Makotos’ are bored from the same old thing year after year. So you either appeal the Japanese audience that are the actual “real ones” in the branch which would be way too niche, or you make the same crap for the general consumer over at the big consumer industry at Europe and USA. If people take the first option they would just be the tiny anime studio that does decent work for their audience and are not really recognised in the world, but I guess he (Makoto) decided to take the first “successful” path and have large audience that isn’t interested in his work, but he takes the money out of that so it is fine. Ofc this is just my opinion and you may agree or disagree with it idc but yeah if you reached it this far congratulations for wasting your time and I hope you have a good day

May 31, 2023 9:14 AM

#71

TheStranger234

Offline

Dec 2016

12

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I certainly think it's in his right to make whatever films he wants to make. All last three Shinkai films are good in their own unique way, and I couldn't have asked for better.

And yet with that point, I do agree that with his next his film (or whatever other projects he wanted to make), Makoto Shinkai should be making something different from now on. Your Name, Weathering with You and Suzume are already a perfect trilogy. It doesn't need another installment film to ruin it.

Jun 11, 2023 8:51 PM

#72

Plopop

Offline

Oct 2017

118

audience: why can't makoto shinkai make something new?
shinkai: *makes something new

audience: why can't makoto shinkai make something new?!?

like bruh, compared to TnK/WWY this dude made everything different from the Your Name narrative of boy meets girl. Suzume has abandonment issues and wouldn't the very dramatic time travelling chair-giving her own self scene make it evident it wasn't about the romance of her and this dude??? when in Your Name did that level of telling your past self "it gon be aight" happen??? it wasn't about the romance. many threads and comments said that iowaepngaowpgbobgawbwajt

Jul 4, 2023 8:32 AM

#73

shiroi-ookami

Offline

Apr 2009

305

Heisenberg_69 said:
My favourite shinkai movies are still "5 cm per second" and "garden of words". I just prefer the down to earth, realistic stories with those beautiful visuals rather than the more full blown fantasy movies he has been putting out lately. Even Your Name was not too heavy on its fantasy element, but tenki no ko crossed the limit and Suzume seems to be even more leaned in fantasy.

This sums up my thoughts exactly. While I can still enjoy the later movies for the visuals and the awesome soundtrack, I do feel that his ambitious aim for more epic and grander setting (esp after Kimi no wa, which I did enjoy a lot) has resulted to overblown story and flat characters. Overall, I also prefer his earlier down-to-earth works.

shiroi-ookamiJul 4, 2023 8:35 AM

Jul 4, 2023 6:44 PM

#74

HRinka

Offline

Oct 2009

534

I agree with everyone that he should focus on more realistic movies. He can't pull off a Mamoru Hosoda (perfect blend of reality and supernatural) but he also can't pull off a Ghibli (fantastical awe). People would say I'm an elitist when I say my favorite work of his is also 5 CM per Second but the simplicity of it is what made it so impactful because he had the most amazing visuals of any recent director in terms of 'realism'... I remember his entrance exam ad and his AniKuri entry very distinctively because of how simple and smart it was.

But the way he forces 4 subplots and not really one consistent main emotional draw has always been his set backs. And yes, it always has been the same formula of choosing "love" over a disaster. AND THAT COULD TOTALLY WORK BUT his weak point of not really helping the main character convincingly attach to both their counterpart and the audience makes the whole experience so lackluster despite the animation. I've also felt this with Your Name... it doesn't make sense but to me, Weathering With You is still the better of his works in recent years.

Sep 11, 2023 3:15 PM

#75

CarbonMD

Offline

Aug 2017

2208

Reply to ExiledDiclonius

Who want to bet that ending of next movie will be: boy saves girl or other way around, then MC's love interest will have to leave for a week/month/year just to get reunited on slope or stairs XD

@ExiledDiclonius lol spot on with reunion on slope or stairs after a hiatus

Movie was underwhelming but I'll keep watching them

Nov 14, 2023 10:35 PM

#76

anikevin

Offline

May 2015

1797

Shinkai movies are like pasta
Most people love pasta, me included. You have Marinara, Bolognese, Alfredo, Pesto, etc. If I were to eat pasta every day, I'd probably get sick of it.
Good thing Shinkai movies come out every few years. Otherwise, I would have ended up hating his movies.

Nov 18, 2023 8:45 AM

#77

MaouHero

Offline

May 2018

141

The movies have certain same premises, in fact. But saying it's the same movie is an exaggeration, to say the least. There are several basic elements that are the same, but there are also many that differentiate it.

Speaking only about Suzume: The main focus is on the girl, there is love at first sight with an older guy, the interaction between a human and a chair, a "villain", focus on real disasters that occurred in Japan, temporal paradox, fights etc.

I thought the way he handled the 2011 disaster was really nice, certainly whoever was affected must have been moved. It also focuses on places abandoned by people who leave a whole history behind, and also focuses a lot on the daily lives of working women. These are all things that are not present in the other two movies.

Poll: » Next natural disaster? mechian - Apr 15, 2023	6	by Rob7 »» Yesterday, 9:55 PM
» Serizawa's car and his playlist kintups - Mar 10, 2023	16	by Rob7 »» Yesterday, 9:51 PM
» Makoto Shinka cannot write plausible human relationships MyllerPhiem - Apr 8	40	by MichaelJackson »» Apr 19, 8:17 PM
Poll: » the "romance" didn't make sense ( 1 2 ) MongoDB - Apr 15, 2023	68	by MichaelJackson »» Apr 17, 10:18 AM
Poll: » Suzume no Tojimari Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Shikkakku - Nov 11, 2022	341	by Albino-52 »» Apr 15, 4:06 PM

Same old formula!!!!

More topics from this board

Poll: » Next natural disaster?

» Serizawa's car and his playlist

» Makoto Shinka cannot write plausible human relationships

Poll: » the "romance" didn't make sense ( 1 2 )

Poll: » Suzume no Tojimari Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

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