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HK's Theorized Summary of the Organization and Theory of Rubel

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May 11, 2010 1:05 AM
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(this actually came up on another site, just recently, so I decided to "take the plunge on this")

the first two "sections" are a little off-topic (as they were part of the other site's TP), but they're somewhat related (about the Organization and its creations) as well, so I'm including these 2 first "sections" below as well.

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body types of the yomas in Claymore manga:

(let me know if I missed any, or if you have any different opinions of how i classifed them where or of what)


1A. tentacles and extendable limbs = generic bodies of yomas

*such as the multi-armed Paburo Mtns male AB, and many other yomas (Awakeneds and normal yomas).

1B. wings (+ tentacles and extendable limb) = RARE for normal yomas, extremely RARE for Awakeneds

(Clare+Priscilla mentions about the yomas not being developed towards wings/having wings... I'm not sure if this means something significant or if it merely wasn't the best translation of words used)

(strangely, Isley and Luciela both seem to have tiny-bat like wings on their backs, but they never been shown as actually able to fly with them, which makes sense)

*Priscilla, the female AB in Lacroa town, and only a few normal yomas

1C. sphinz/griffon-like body (+ tentacles and extendable limb) = female AB in Gonal town (Ophelia killed it)

2. insects (+ wings obviously). mostly these were in the Pieta battle, and Jean (butterfly).

3. tailed fox-felines = Luciela and her Destroyer fragments (hellcats, Infected Awakened Beth, and Dauf's hellcat arms)

*Luciela, hellcats, Dauf (well his hellcat arms), and Infectected Awakened Beth

4. Unique Shell/Exoskeleton bodies

(able to create a fake human body with their Awakened bodies, while their REAL-HUMAN-VITAL ORGANS body is inside their Awakened shell-exoskeleton like bodies and is able to move around within it as well)

4A. Ribbons (+ Unique Shell/Exoskeleton bodies) = Riful

4B. Tentacles (+ Unique Shell/Exoskeleton bodies) = (HK's speculation - MAYBE) Priscilla

4C. Snake/gorgon/naga (+ Unique Shell/Exoskeleton bodies) = Ophelia

4D. "Mummy-like" (+ Unique Shell/Exoskeleton bodies) = (MAYBE) Hilda and (one form of body of) Agatha (but she also has her pod body too)

5. Bladed bodies

*Clare, Alicia, Beth, the AFs, ~Isley (some of his arm modes anyways), Riful (her Ribbons are blades), Ophelia (I'm pretty sure she created small-short bladed arms), etc?

6. unique bodies

*Isley (centaur), Rigardo (were-lion-man), Dauf ("Golem-like" + Rods), Ophelia (Snake/gorgon/naga), Luciela-hellcats-Infected Beth (tailed fox-cat), Rosemary (Alien Queen), the Dragons (~Dragon body), Katea (killed-smashed by Dauf. whatever she was, lol), Jean (butterfly), the female AB in Gonal town (sphinz/griffon-like), Clare (scorpian-like huge blade arms), Priscilla (Dark Fairy. she gives new meaning to the fairy class of D&D games or Fantasy RPGs, as being physically strong, lol), etc?

7. bandaged humanoid bodies = the AFs

8. Projectile using bodies = Dauf (Rods), the Destroyer (huge projectiles), hellcats (small projectiles), Infected Dauf (Rods + small projectiles), and Infected Awakened Beth (small projectiles)

9. infection ability = the Destroyer (through its huge projectiles), hellcats (small projectiles), Infected Dauf (Rods + small projectiles), and Infected Awakened Beth (small projectiles)

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about the Organization's "Development Projects":


X. the "forging" of the swords that the Claymores/Yomas* use.

*normal yomas have used the swords too. for example, the "super" normal yoma in the cathedral

0. the creation of the normal yomas (at least on the island), according to Miria anyways

1. There was of course the development of (living) weapons: the (male) Claymores on the continent (+ island) and the female Claymores on the island. But, they weren't controllable, hence the coming to the island and turning it into their (the Org's) laboratory.

2. I don't believe that there's an actual "Teresa Project" per se, but there is the singular "Clare Project" (the experiemental Claymore). As in, I am not aware of the manga mentioning Teresa being used for anything else, other then towards (implanted into) Clare.

3A. There is however the "Soul Link Project" (develepment of controllable AB weapons). first it was Luciela+Rafaela, then Alicia+Beth, and then.....

3B. There is the "2nd phase" (development of mass producable controllable AB weapons) of the "Soul Link Project" (develepment of controllable AB weapons). This was "incorporating" what they discovered/developed with Alicia+Beth into what would become the AFs. Using the brutal conditioning and using a version of the Soul Link to create the obedient-slave AFs, whom also have the ability to share combat knowledge/experience through that version of the Soul Link, much like how Alicia+Beth shared stuff between them through the Soul Link.

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MY THEORY (+ some manga factual content too) of the summary of the Organization and its history:


There is indeed a continent, and the chaotic "free for all" war (of past-over-beyond ~110 years ago) that has merged into a more orderly 2-sided war at ~110 years ago. One side has the Dragons and their Dragons' kinsmen. The other side has the Black Coats and their Organization.

Both sides are seen to have swords and armor. So, we don't know if the Dragon side's swords are normal swords or the same indestructable swords that the Organization's side has.

We do know that the Organization's side has swords that are indestructable, which they presumably "forged" (made) themselves. These swords were also able to cut through at least AB flesh. We don't know for sure if they could cut through the Dragons' flesh or not.

But, this wasn't enough for the Organization's side. So, they created superhuman soldiers, the normal yomas. These normal yomas wore armor and used swords, and fought against the Dragons' side's kinsmen. However, the Organization's side still had to deal with the Dragons themselves of the other side.

So, the Organization created super normal yoma soldiers, the male Claymores. These (male) Claymores could Awaken into Awakened Beings, which rivaled the Dragons. However, they had no control over their (male) Claymores, once they had awakened into Awakened Beings.

So they tactically used the male Claymores as suicide/kamekaze warriors. This worked pretty well, however it wasn't "fool proof".

So, at ~109 years ago, the Organization sailed over to an island, which they would use as their isolated lab to develop controllable ABs. They landed on the east coast of the island and took over the eastern most city of the island, Staff city, and turned it into their HQs.

The island was probably relatively at peace, with the holy city Rabona as the religious-theocratic government on the island, and their religious soldiers were the military+police force on the island.

The main religion on the island was the God of Rabona, which was centeralized in the holy city Rabona. Much like the Vatican in Rome with the Holy Roman Empire.

However, strangely there was an almost equal other "religion", or at least worpship/reverence, on the island. The legend of the Twin Goddesses of Love, Goddess Teresa and Goddess Clare. We don't know if this is a part of the religion of the God of Rabona, or if it is separate from it, or even possibly advisarial too it.

There doesn't seem to be any advisarial conflict currently or mentioned between the two religions. However, within the cathedral in the holy city Rabona (at least in the anime, not sure about the manga) is a glass window of a depiction of like a holy man/male angel with a spear stabbing something (I can't remember if it is a monster or a female)...

This obviously opens up a lot of speculation. Did yomas or female Claymores exist on the island LONG* before the Org came? Maybe the island was where the Dragons originally came from... lots of speculation... involving the Twin Goddesses of Love, God of Rabona, and the cathedral glass window depiction.

*at ~109 years ago, the current living people had never seen/known about normal yomas or CLaymores. But, maybe much further back in time... there were yomas/Claymores or even the Dragons on the island...

The "religion" of the Twin Goddesses of Love is known/worshipped/revered all over the island, and in the unnamed (manga) big town (in the anime, they give this town a name, Hanel) in the western land, there is the statues of the Twin Goddesses of Love.

Also, in Pieta town in the northern land, there was some kinda statue/sculpture too, but Pieta and the statue/sculpture is in ruins now. (the statue/sculpture was behind Miria, as she addressed the 23 Claymores there on what their teams would be).

~109 years ago, is when everything on the island changed. For the first* time, normal yomas appeared and quickly infested the island. The Rabona religious military-police forces couldn't deal with the normal yomas, because they could take on a human's body-appearance after they ate a human's brain. So, instead they retreated/consolidated/fortified themselves back into the holy city Rabona, leaving the poor towns and their people of the rest of the island to fend for themselves against the normal yomas and criminal humans, such as the bandits.

Due to Rabona having been the only military-police force on the island, the general populace of the island had no military-police training or ability at all. So, they had no means to form their own militias and defend themselves. The only humans whom could, that we see in the manga, were the ones whom were the bandits, whom took advantage where they could. Bandits and the inhabitants of the towns were at the complete mercy of normal yomas. Even the bandits dared not go into a town known to have a normal yoma there.

Well, this is what the Organization wanted. DEPENDANCY ON THEM. This DEPENDENCY protected the Organization from the humans (the "natives" of the island. Avatar movie, anyone?) of the island rising up against the Organization, and thus interfering with the Organization's development of controllable AB weapons.

Well, this was done, by the Org creating the normal yomas, and then by creating first male Claymores (and then female Claymores), which would protect the towns by killing the normal yoma(s) for a fee. The Organization probably used this fee for their developmental endeavers of controllable AB weapons, including setting up their "Organization" on the island, like their HQs, or buying for materials/resources/food/etc from the towns.

But the humans, didn't know that this was the Organization's scheme to control them. They didn't know that the Organization had also made the normal yomas and unleashed them upon the island in the first place.

Well, of course these male Claymores, and then female Claymores, would Awaken in Awakened Beings. The Organization lied about this as well, saying that these ABs were just ancient normal yomas that had fed on lots of humans, and thus "grew" into the ABS. The lying public label for these ABs was, Voracious Eaters. In fact, even many-most of the Claymores didn't know that "voracious eaters" were actually themselves (Claymores) whom had Awakened in ABs. For a long time, the Organization kept it secret, that the "voracious eaters" were actually Awakened Claymores. This is probably why they created the "Black Card System/Policy". They wanted the Claymores to be killed before they Awakened, so that their Claymores would remain in the dark, that they were the cause of the ABs on the island.

The Organization didn't want the humans rising up against them, so they certainly didn't want their own normal yomas, and especially their own Claymores, to rise up against them.

The Claymores protected the Organization from the normal yomas (as well as protected the humans from normal yomas, for a fee).

The Organization put every measure possible in place to protect them from their own claymores. Such as, tricking the Claymores into thinking they are heroic warriors for the purpose of protecting the island's humans from the scourge of these "Ancient" normal yomas that have lived on the island for a long time. The Organization sure had fooled (most of) them! The Organization also made them fearful of Awakening (making them want to "die as a human instead of becoming a monster"), and had the real threat of the other Claymores killing them before or after they Awaken. Secretly, if the Claymores got too suspicious or learned to much, the Organization would kill them. They had a "contract" with a multi-armed Paburo Mtns male AB, whom would kill off the Organization's weaker "troublesome" Claymores. This would make it impossible for the rest of the Claymore force to suspect that the Organization had any involvement in killing their own CLaymores. For the more powerful "troublesome" Claymores, such as Teresa and Priscilla, they had hoped that they would kill each other. But, this was a singular event. For all the other powerful "troublesome" Claymores, they used Rafaela to kill them. Rafaela was a former rank 1, whom had been in "exile/banishment" for years "gaining" her Natural Yoki Supression, which made her perfect for the Organization's Assassin. Rafaela was so good, she could kill Claymores without the other Claymore forces knowing that she did so. (Deserter) Irene, however, was an official execution. But, Rafaela killed who knows how many or what Claymores in secret, earning her the rumored title of "the Assassin of the Organization".

Well anyways, back to the main summary.

The Organization was unopposed on the island, until ......

The Organization originally had three known disasters (and 1 unknown short-lived disaster).

the rank 1 male Claymore, Isley, Awakened (along with ALL of the other male Claymores). The Organization now had a threat to them on the island. 0 v 1. is not good for the Organization. But, they skillfully never let it interfere with their developmental work.

But, luckily, with their new first attempt at female Claymores (since male Claymores had continued to be unable to resist themselves from Awakening even on the island, they decided to try making female Claymores), they had a "child prodigy", Riful. She was (and would continue to be) the youngest rank 1 Claymore ever. Riful protected the Organization from Awakened Isley. 1v1. Organization is safe.

Unfortunately, she too Awakened, making her the youngest Claymore to be a rank 1 and to Awaken.

Now the Organization had serious trouble.... 2 Awakened rank 1s, 2 aka Abyssal Ones. They could team up against the Organization..... 0 v 2. however, the crafty Organization, is still not detered from their developmental work.

so what does the Organization do?

Well, they luckily find and try to make 2 Abyssal Ones, to protect them from the 2 Abyssal Ones, Isley and Riful. Luciela and Rafaela were both rank 1's. Though, they can't have two rank 1's, so Rafaela was officially given rank 2 instead, while her older sister Luciela officially was given the rank 1 status. 2v2. Organization is safe.

As part of their development into creating controllable AB weapons, the Organization was looking into using the yoki of yomas (aka Claymores), to control ABs. This use of yoki ability, became known as the Soul Link ability.

However, the Soul Link ALSO required the ability to Yoki Synchronize, as well as just being powerful in yoki ability/usage. Rafaela was powerful in yoki ability/usage, however, she and her older sister Luciela, were very different individuals, and thus they couldn't synchronize their yokis.

Luciela went to Awaken, but Rafaela was unable to control Luciela, due to not being able to yoki synchonize, which was one of the requirements of the Soul Link. Awakened Lucila, the 3rd Abyssal One, the original 3rd known disaster, killed half of all of the Claymore forces (which included the trainees) and destroyed much of the Organization's HQs.

Rafaela, was unable to control and thus de-awaken/revert Luciela. Luciela was now permanently an Awakened, the Abyssal One Luciela.

Rafaela, would not give up on her beloved older sister, Luciela. Rafaela kept her yoki (and maybe Luciela's yoki. I thought i read about this in the manga, but I haven't yet been able to re-find it) in hopes of one day being able to de-awaken/revert Luciela back into a Claymore, saving her. (I'll get back to this later on).

Now the Organization had a really huge threat, 3 Abyssal Ones, whom could join together against the Organization, which only had a single rank 1 Claymore, Rafaela. 1v3. not good for the Organization. however, the crafty Organization, is still not detered from their developmental work.

to make matters worse, the Organization was greatly embarrased by their failure/disaster with Luciela, and wanted to blame someone else, and not themselves obviously. So, they blamed Rafaela. They probably wanted to kill Rafaela, but she was exiled/banished instead. 0 v 3, Organization was stupid to exile/banish Rafaela. however, the crafty Organization, is still not detered from their developmental work.

They come across Rosemary, another rank 1 Claymore. however, it is still, 1 v 3 (or 2 v 3 if you count Rafaela too). The organization is at a disadvantage. however, the crafty Organization, is still not detered from their developmental work.

They find what they wanted.... identical twin babies... in the very town which is nearest to their HQs. baby Alicia Zemas and baby Beth Zemas, identical twin sisters. The Organization forcibly takes them from their parents as just babies. This is because they want to do every kind of insurance that they will be able to yoki synchronize for the Soul Link. them being identical twin sisters, unlike Luciela and Rafaela whom were not identical twin sisters but just sisters, would help. Also, by taking them as babies, the Organization can brutally/inhumanly/ruthlessly train/condition them into being robotic doll slaves, with no emotions. As emotions and individuality could/would also interfere with yoki synchronization. So, they made Alicia+Beth into emotionless-soulless doll slave weapons.

However, Alicia+Beth were just babies at this time, so they didn't count towards protecting the Organization. it was still looking bad to the Organization. 1 v 3 (or 2 v 3 if you count Rafaela). however, the crafty Organization, is still not detered from their developmental work.

Then, what was at first a great gift, "lands" at the Organization's door.....

TERESA. She was so powerful, that she herself could protect the Organization from all 3 of the Abyssal Ones, if they attacked at the same time! Finally, the advantage was the Organization's against the Abyssal Ones! Teresa could protect the Organization's HQs from the other 2 Abyssal Ones, while Rosemary (and also possibly Rafaela) could go kill one of the three Abyssal Ones.

However, the poor Organization's advantage is short lived. As Rosemary, is enraged, that Teresa usurped her rank 1 status, without even a duel, aka without proving she deserved the rank 1 spot that the Organization had just given her.

(recently)-former rank 1 Rosemary Awakens, into the unknown 4th Abyssal One, the unknown 4th disaster. The Organization, just lost their advantage! Well, Teresa makes quick work of Abyssal One Rosemary, killing Rosemary with ease and so quickly too. The Organization never learns that Rosemary had awakened, as their 4th disaster, as the 4th Abyssal One.

Well, all is not lost though. Teresa will still protect them from the 3 Abyssal Ones. They just lost their ability to take out the Abyssal Ones now.

(well, they could still use Rafaela, to go kill one of the Abyssal Ones, while Teresa protects the Org HQs from the other two. however, the Organization is realizing.... that Teresa is more of a curse then a gift... a very very very very dangerous curse... much more dangerous than the 3 Abyssal Ones.... I'll address this soon...)

This creates a relative time of peace, as they form 4 stale-mated equal factions. Isley of the northern land. Riful of the western land. Luciela of the eastern land. Teresa of the eastern land (Organization's).

Meanwhile, unknown to everyone, including Teresa, the Organization's development continues on. the unknown and secret Alicia+Beth in training.

During this time, there's also 4 other Claymores. Teresa as rank 1. Irene as rank 2. Sophia as rank 3. Noel as Rank 4. Elda as rank 5.

well, Teresa with how powerful she is, isn't the most loyal Claymore, and the Organization fears her. Teresa could turn on them at any moment, and they couldn't save/protect themselves from her. Teresa was a danger and a risk to them. They wanted to get rid of Teresa, but they also needed her to protect them from the 3 Abyssal Ones. Though Teresa was more frightening then the 3 Abyssal Ones, as she was more powerful then them.

(the Organization, probably only thought that she was equal in power to them. They didn't know that Teresa was actually beyond the power of a rank 1. They thought Teresa was jsut an ordinary rank 1, like all the rest of the rank 1's. This is because they never found out that Teresa killed an Awakened rank 1 Rosemary. They thought Rosemary was still a rank 1 Claymore and whom had let Teresa kill her)

The Organization needed a powerful Claymore whom could kill Teresa for them. Alicia+Beth were still children/babies. They could have tried to use Rafaela to kill Teresa, but they never did... because they got someone else.....

PRISCILLA. Priscilla looked extremely promising. She seemed just as powerful as Teresa, as she was far more powerful then Irene. Also, unlike Teresa, Priscilla was very loyal to the Organization....

But.... unfortunately.... Priscilla had a problem too... which the Organization realized.... While Priscilla was loyal, she was unfortunately, UNSTABLE! The Organization had a serious dilema here.... the 3 Abyssal Ones and Teresa+Priscilla. what to do? what to do? why not... have Teresa and Priscilla kill each other! "kill 2 birds with one stone".

so, the Organization began to plot/scheme. They sent a normal yoma on the yoki suppression pills, to get Teresa to kill a it, a "human", so that the Organization would then have an excuse to execute Teresa, to their Claymore force.

This normal yoma on yoki suppression pills, was known as, Rig. He/it infiltrated the bandits and tried to get Teresa to kill him or th bandits. Rig kept failing to do so, until after Teresa separated from Clare in Rokut town, and he/it was dragging Clare, when Teresa (whom had come back) sees him. Rig teases Teresa about Clare calling out for her-Teresa's name, which pushed Teresa over the edge. Teresa instantly kills Rig, and ALL the bandits, mainly for her beloved Clare.

The Organization was hoping that Teresa would let herself be killed, but Orsay messed up, and let Teresa realize that he was going to kill Clare (as she was a witness to what really happened in Rokut, and why Teresa had killed the human bandits and Rig), so she didn't let the ring of unknown Claymores kill her. Teresa had to live to protect Clare from being killed by the Organization. And Teresa also, gained a brief time of experiencing being "human" again, as a motherly figure to Clare.

Well, the Organization finally achieved its excuse to kill Teresa (and Priscilla), and immediately set up the execution squad. Priscilla, Irene, Sophia, and Noel. The Organization and Irene thought that this would be enough, especially with Priscilla, whom they thought (wrongly) was equal or superior to Teresa.

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(getting tired.... i'll try to continue this some other time... I still ahve to talked about my Theory of Rubel too, which changes some of this summary)
HegemonKhanMay 11, 2010 2:32 AM
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May 11, 2010 5:35 AM
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Mar 2010
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I guess I should write at least about Rubel, as that is probably the greater interest of people

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Rubel the Black Spider and True Leader of the Organization:


First, let us describe the Organization:

The Organization is made up of ~ 10-20 Black Coats, their ranked (official-active) Claymore force, their trainee Claymores, and their normal yomas.

~ 10-14 are the "boss" Black Coats

~ 4--6 are the retrieval unit Black Coats (if you know naruto, think Anbu Black Ops)

the "boss" Black Coats:

Rubel = the black spider = the REAL leader ("the puppet master") = Rafaela, Clare, Miria, and Galatea

Rimuto = wears some armor underneath clothing and a metal neck collar thing = the (fake-"puppet") "leader" = the other Black Coats (except Rubel)

Orsay = hood clothing and possible scar = Teresa, maybe trainee Teresa, and maybe Alicia+Beth

Ermita = ninja-like clothing and can only see his eyes= the wily fox = Galatea, Ophelia, Miria, and maybe Hilda too

Rado = "bruno-like" and has a scar = Clarice, maybe Miata too, maybe trainee Teresa, and maybe Alicia+Beth

Unknown = has white/light hair = Rafaela+Luciela

Unknown = Rafaela+Luciela

possible X more unknowns

Dae = the ghoul-zombie faced = (seems to be) head scientist = Infected Raki


These "boss" Black Coats are all super politicians, sociopaths, psychopaths, "lords/kings/nobles" of intrigue.

So, a great way to describe the Organization is it being like a "band or cut-throat pirates or thieves or nobles/lords/kings".

Well, you can't have a "daisy" as the leader of such a group. The leader of a band of thieves or pirates, has to be the most ruthless, cunning, deceptive, and manipulative of all, just in order to control such a group.


now let's talk about:

well, whom fits that description? ............ DUN DUN DUN......

RUBEL

Rubel has the entire island dancing to his puppet master strings. Claymores and Black Coats alike.

Only uber manipulative coercing Rubel could be the Leader of the Organization! Rubel is so supreme, that the other Black Coats don't even know that it is Rubel whom is their real leader. They think Rimuto is their leader, HAHA!

(if you seen batman begins movie, Rubel is Raz al' Ghoul, pretending to be a subordinate of Organization or League of Shadows, when he is really the leader of the group)

The Organization is a group of deception, and their most decptive leader, is none other then, deceptive Rubel himself.


here's some things to consider:


1. Rubel is everywhere and constantly in the manga. The leader of the Organization isn't going to be sitting on his bottom in the Org's HQs, like Rimuto is. This is the Organization we are talking about, a group of cut-throat "pirates-theives-assassins-politicians-sociopaths-psychopaths", not a kingdom with a fat lazy king that does nothing but sit on his throne. A leader like that, wouldn't be a leader for very long in the highly dangerous (cut-throat) and competitive Organization. Every single "boss" Black Coat is just scheming and waiting to make themselves the leader. They dont' trust each other as they are all waiting to stab each other in the back.

This is why Rubel is the leader. He pretends to be unimportant, a subordinate, like the rest of them. Yet, he knows so so so so much. And has connections everywhere, and with everyone. Just like the REAL leader of the Organization would.

Rubel knows about Miria's hostility/distrust of the Organization, so he intentionally feeds her lies that she wants to hear. Lying how there's this continent and these Dragons (which could very well be true), and how he is really a spy for them (LIE). Cozying right up with Miria and earning her trust, and she doesn't even realize it. And, let's make this clear, this is Miria, THEE greatest Claymore leader. Not a bad "draft pick" for Rubel's "team" (army), eh?

Who else does Rubel "cozy" up with? Galatea. Galatea is caught lying by Rimuto, and he wanted to execute her. However, Rubel, "negotiates" for them to not execute Galatea. Rubel, then allows her to watch Alicia+Beth+Soul Link vs the 11 ABs, knowing that Galatea too is already hostile/suspicious of the Organization (and in trouble too, as she was nearly executed, and soon will be as soon as Renee becomes a decent replacement Eye), and that when she sees what they did to poor Alicia+Beth (turning them into emotionless, soulless, robotic doll slave weapons), it would push Galatea "over the edge" (desertion). Rubel chats with Galatea as she watches Alicia+Beth+Soul Link in action, about it. Galatea goes to talk to Alicia+Beth as they de-awaken/revert and "disengage" the Soul Link, but Rubel stops her, saving her life a 2nd time. As Alicia+Beth+Soul Link is a fragile process, and also "lifeless" Alicia+Beth aren't very social or friendly.... Either Galatea would have caused Alicia to remain Awakened, or she would have been killed by Alicia+Beth. Neither of which would have been a good thing. Now, isn't God Eye Galatea another great "draft pick" for Rubel's team (army), eh? Also, Galatea asks Rubel about whom was Luciela's sister, but Rubel can't tell her that...

This is because Rafaela is also one of Rubel's "draft picks" for his "team" (army). Rubel uses the blackmail of Luciela, to make Rafaela be his personal "bodyguard, assasin, enforcer, hitman". This is Rafaela! Whom Rubel says has the same power as her sister, Abyssal One Luciela! That's quite a good "team member" to have on your side! Rafaela the "powerhouse Assassin". Rubel's creating quite an "A-Team" or ultimate army. Rafaela was going to be executed as the scapegoat for the Organization's embarrasment and blame at/for the Luciela disaster. But, Rubel again, "negotiated" for Rafaela to be exiled/banished, instead.... HOW CONVENIENT!!!!!! Rafaela will be "banished/exiled" off the the Organization's "radar". Allowing Rubel to use her for whatever he wants, and the rest of the Organization will never know it! Rubel you SLY SOB !!!!!

Then finally we got Clare.... Did Clare merely happen to find/"run into" Rubel... or did he "find" her.... It's a good thing that Rubel "found" Clare first... because if it was any of the other "boss" Black Coats, especially Orsay, Clare would be getting a knife through her chest, and then Teresa's head would be stomped-smashed to pieces. The Organization had just lost Priscilla, Irene, Sophia, and Noel to kill Teresa, so why the (explative) would they then put Teresa's flesh into Clare's body... and let Clare live, when she knows the secret of the Teresa, Priscilla, Rokut town, bandits, and Rig incident? Clare, Rubel's own personal, secret weapon, his own experimental Claymore with the power of Teresa inside her. Heck, Clare is unknowingly becoming Rubel's very own "end game" Half Awakened ultimate weapon! A Claymore that can fully Awaken and de-awakened/revert at will, just like the ABs and AOs, without losing her human mind, and remaining loyal/controlable to Rubel and only Rubel himself! Clare was about to kill Rubel too, yet Rubel terrifyingly instead got Clare to go to Rafaela+Luciela half merged bodies at Riful's forest castle!


Now let's talk about Teresa. She was too smart, she knew about the organization, and if she ever found out whom the real leader was, she'd have killed him. This is why Rubel stayed far far far far away from Teresa while she was alive. in the entire Teresa arc of the manga, Rubel is "missing", until Clare is carrying Teresa's head in her arms in a town, then and only then does Rubel finally show up at the very end of the Teresa arc, when Teresa is dead. As long as Teresa lived, Rubel could never have had access to Teresa... as the living Teresa would never have let him, the leader of the Organization, get anywhere near her. Rubel is very "wise" and knew to stay away from Teresa while she was alive.

also, Rubel sets himself up, so to remove any suspicion of him as being the leader of the Organization. Rubel allows himself to be "caught" lying about the Clare+Ophelia+female AB incident. Rimuto "grills" Rubel, and Rubel should have been executed.... yet he wasn't... maybe he's just too valuable, too knowledgable... or maybe Rubel is the real leader of the Organization, and he staged this whole thing, with his puppet, the "leader" Rimuto.


lastly, Rubel knows a lot... awfully knowledgable... kinda like the leader of the Organization should be... like about Luciela's location (and thus knowing that Luciela and Isley were battling each other, and that Luciela would be weakened by Isley....), and tells Rafaela, knowing Rafaela would go there and kill Luciela. knowing that Rafaela and Luciela would become half merged... and he would come and "retrieve" it. But, Riful stole them, from Rubel. So Rubel got Renee to look for where Riful was, but unfortunately (or maybe Rubel used Renee as bait), Riful was also looking for a skilled yoki user (like Renee) and captured Renee, taking her back to her forest castle. Well, now that Rubel used Renee as bait, he knew generally where Riful was, and had 3 Claymores (and 2 unknown "~boss" Black Coats) with him secretly looking for "renee" (actually Riful's forest castle). Well, this is when Clare unfortunately runs into them and Rubel. Rubel coerces Clare to go retrieve Rafaela+Luciela half merged bodies for him. Did Rubel, actually know that ALL of this was going to happen, and that Clare would cause Rafaela+Luciela to become the Destroyer???? Because the manga does say that Rubel wanted the Organization to destroy itself, which would be done by the Destroyer, possibly. OR, maybe, Rubel created the Destroyer to take on priscilla. A thorn to his plans for WORLD DOMINATION!

Rubel didn't want the Organization to create ultimate weapons. NO Rubel wanted the ultimate weapons all to himself, to RULE THE ENTIRE WORLD!

also, ONLY Rubel knows about the Half Awakens... is this because he's a spy for the dragons... or is this because he, RUBEL, the leader of the Organization, wants the Half Awakens ALL TO HIMSELF, he doesn't want the other "boss" Black Coats to find out about the existence of Half Awakens (Claymores whom can resist awakening without the vulnerable/fragile Soul Link connection), and make their own ultimate weapons to usurp him. No, Rubel wants these Half Awaken Ultimate weapons to himself...

Constantly, putting Clare, unknowingly into harder and harder battles, not to kill her, but to speed up her growth in power! RUBEL YOU WICKED DEVIL!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

i guess this is good enough for my Rubel theory

(there's probably some more things i can address that I'm forgetting that suport Rubel as being the Leader of the Organization, but I'm way too tired, so calling it quits, for now at least...
HegemonKhanMay 11, 2010 5:54 AM
May 11, 2010 1:04 PM
#3

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You may want to work on making this more concise. Generally the people reading this already have a detailed understanding of the claymores and yoma abilities for example. They might be a useful reference at some point, but you should either focus on just the facts (for the reference parts) or clear supported opinion (for the theory parts). The reference details are not even directly related to the theories, so maybe that should have been a separate topic.

Forums are meant for discussions. Listing several theories and talking points makes it difficult to reply.


Anyway, regarding Rubel... it does seem possible that he's raising Clare as a super-weapon and he's at least interested in the offensive power of Miria's group. It does seem reasonable that he would want to pretend to be a spy simply to pretend to be on their side, and it's a bit too convenient that he is always around when big things happen.

It's at least obvious that he's manipulating many events from the sidelines, but it will be interesting to see whether that's because of his role in the organization or his supposed role as a draconic spy.

I am a banana.
May 12, 2010 3:49 AM
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hmmmm

The first page was very interesting and i learned alot about Claymore when i read it,thank you.
But Rubel possiblely training Clare as a super weapon? To me that part is right.

Lets see how the rest of the manga gose ~
May 17, 2010 1:33 PM
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I've just discovered that Rubel also had a relationship-connection-ties with Ophelia.

not only did Rubel assign* Clare to be on AB Hunt with Ophelia, but....


Ophelia reported Miria's Half Awakening at the death of Awakened Hilda to Rubel and not her own handler (Ermita? or Orsay? I forgot which/whom it was).

This was Rubel's first learning of HAs (according to him anyways).

the list of supporting suggestive evidence for Rubel being the leader of the Organization is growing! (hehe)



*speaking of Rubel assigning Clare to be on an AB Hunt with Ophelia, whom does Rubel think he is to be assigning Claymores to be on missions with other Claymores, whom maybe he thinks he is the leader of the Organization, maybe he IS the leader of the Organization !!!
HegemonKhanMay 17, 2010 1:40 PM
May 23, 2010 6:09 PM
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Awesome theory. I really like it and it has a lot of support. My only problem is with the time line. If Isley + Riful already awakened, then Luciela and Rafaela must be in the same generation as these two. Otherwise the Organization was defenseless, or we don't know about a weapon or defense mechanism they have. But that contradictions the generation theory: Luciela and Rafeala were not part of the first gen of female warriors while Riful was.

Personally, I think they have a sealed underground area where they hide during those three crises and that's also where there precious lab is located (Think of it as a bomb shelter). This would explain how they were able to survive 3 AOs attacking their base at three, and possibly more times, and being able to continue their experiments. That also explains why the three AOs settled in three different locations. They realized that the Org. isn't as easy to kill off and gave up, settling in different places so not to attack each other.

I found the Rig theory really interesting, but wasn't he bleeding? I don't think youma bleed...but I don't really remember that part too well. ^^;;;;
Although, Rig did have almost a youma-like expression during his attempted rape.

The whole Theresa and Priscilla killing each other does sound plausible though. Since Priscilla was still immature enough, yet she had the raw power to rival Theresa.
May 23, 2010 6:56 PM
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Well, it's not like we know the AOs attacked the org... it's likely they would just avoid them anyway even if they had the power to take them -- just go berserk and then head out to quench their appetites.

Also, it was said that there was no particular arrangement between the North/South/East/West locations of the Abyssal Ones.... it was just by chance that they ended up that way, and then Priscilla tipped the scales and sparked the fighting amongst them.

Isley is probably the only example that I can think of where an AO deliberately attacked members of the Org (at Pieta) but I'm pretty sure that's just because the claymores were in his way, and the Org only put them there to die as cannon fodder anyway.

With the Org now becoming strong enough to kill Isley with their projects, I imagine that the remaining powerful awakened consider the Org a greater threat than before.

I am a banana.
May 24, 2010 8:29 PM
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saka said:
Well, it's not like we know the AOs attacked the org... it's likely they would just avoid them anyway even if they had the power to take them -- just go berserk and then head out to quench their appetites.

Also, it was said that there was no particular arrangement between the North/South/East/West locations of the Abyssal Ones.... it was just by chance that they ended up that way, and then Priscilla tipped the scales and sparked the fighting amongst them.

Isley is probably the only example that I can think of where an AO deliberately attacked members of the Org (at Pieta) but I'm pretty sure that's just because the claymores were in his way, and the Org only put them there to die as cannon fodder anyway.

With the Org now becoming strong enough to kill Isley with their projects, I imagine that the remaining powerful awakened consider the Org a greater threat than before.


I guess that's true, but I still think the lab is located underground as a safety precaution. Remember the little cave huts the Claymore live in that we saw during the Clarice-Matia arc? That is the part of the organization that is above ground, and the part that was likely destroyed during those three disasters (Three Abyssal Ones awakening). The valuable lab is probably underground in a bomb-like shelter.

I don't know, I don't think it was a coincidence. I think each Abyssal One knew that it would be better to settle else-where to avoid fighting since each of them were evenly matched. But I guess this is something Yagi probably won't clarify as it doesn't have much bearing on the rest of the story.
May 24, 2010 11:10 PM
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I could swear that it was mentioned that it was only by chance that the abyssal ones settled in different areas.... in one of the interactions with Riful or something. I can't seem to find the exact panel though. Wikipedia says something to the same effect, but maybe that was speculation and I picked it up from there.... not sure.

Wikipedia said:
As such, they came to be known as the "Abyssal Ones" (深淵の者, Shin'en no mono?, literally "Persons of the Abyss") (Viz "Creatures of the Abyss"). By chance, the three of them decided to settle in different parts of the country - one in the West, one in the North, and one in the South. This arrangement remained in place for years, ensuring that none of the three would come into contact and sparing the world the devastation that would surely ensue were they to battle. The status quo did not change until Isley, the Abyssal One of the North, began to raise an army of Awakened and expand his influence into the others' realms.

I am a banana.
May 25, 2010 4:23 PM
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It was Riful whom talked about the Abyssal Ones.

Riful said that they merely ended up taking up each direction of land on the island (Isley-north, riful-west, luciela-south, and Org-east)

also that they "sat low" just "quietly" eating people up and sleeping for all those years (~ century in fact).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

personally, I find both comments to be a bit absurd (I find them to be lies).

though the whole time-frame-span is quite confusing as well.

I guess what works best is this:

Claymores can go a week without eating or drinking. Maybe normal yomas, and even more so, Awakeneds (Awakened Beings and Abyssal Ones), can go much much longer without eating and drinking. Also, maybe they don't require to eat that much too when they do.
May 25, 2010 6:24 PM
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about the Org HQs:


Originally this was "Staff, the city of the far east". Staff city was the most eastern city on the island, thus in the eastern land on its eastern coast, but slightly inland.

then the Org came ~109 years ago and Staff city was now the Org's HQs. I surmize/presume that the Org attacked and killed everyone (or used them for experiments), thus taking over the city by force.

Staff city, due to its location, was perfect for the Org HQs, because it was rocky meaning many caves/tunnels, and even underground caves and tunnels. Making it perfect for doing their dark affairs (experiments, creating normal yomas, making Claymores, etc) in secrecy.

The Org HQs consists of:

above ground, the buildings/houses that were once Staff city. (Miata was locked in one of these buildings/houses above ground, because she was too dangerous for even the underground cells. The Organization didn't want Miata to Awaken like Luciela had underground and destroyed much of it. At least if Miata Awakened above ground the damage would be insignificant). Also, above ground, is where the trainee Claymores battle a normal yoma as their final test/trial. (we see this in chapter 73 extra scene 4 of Clare's time as a trainee Claymore).

the underground, which consists of the cells where they keep the newly made Claymores as they wait to see if they are able to resist the yoma inside them or not. (We see this with Clare's flashback of herself and Elena helping-supporting-comforting each other through it). Also, somewhere is a large cavern where the Black Coats meet. There's stone chairs/thrones there. Rimuto the leader sits resides here. I'd have to go back and look to try to figure out which of the Black Coats are seen sitting on the other stone chairs/thrones. Also, presumably somewhere must be where they do the actual "lab-experiments" stuff, such as implanting the humans with yoma flesh, or creating the normal yomas. Which Dae seems to be the head scientist of the experiments.
HegemonKhanMay 25, 2010 6:27 PM
May 25, 2010 8:31 PM

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I agree Hegemon. It was just a bit too convenient for them to settle in different areas. Which is why I still think they did it intentionally, although that is probably something Yagi won't clear up since the AOs are gone. I also don't think that Riful would say she was hesitant to fight Isley, since she has some sort of rivalry with him (or at least that is what it looks like to me), which would explain why she just said they settle there by coincidence. Of course, this is all speculation. :)

Also, Luciela awakened underground? I might be recalling this wrong, but didn't she awaken above ground when Rafaela was testing the soul link and failed? I think it might have been Riful who awakened underground.

Also your correct about the new Claymores being underground. I forgot about that. ^^;;;
But, yeah, the precious lab is located elsewhere and probably heavily enforced as a safety precaution against possible awakenings underground.

ps- I'm really tried, so I'm sorry if something does not make sense. ^^;;;
May 27, 2010 7:12 PM
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this is pure speculation, but Riful speaks/reacts to Isley as if she were his EX-girlfriend...

and then you got Isley+Luciela very dirty banter between each other as they battle...

I can't remember if I mentioned this here... but Isley could very well be a "pimp/playa/whatever"... (he does tell Raki that ~"Impotence is a sin", so maybe he has had experience... aka he's not a virgin...)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

(hmm, maybe Luciela did Awaken above ground...I'll re-look at the manga. However, the manga says she destroyed much of the HQs and killed half of the entire Claymore force, which means she killed some or half of the trainees too)
May 27, 2010 7:57 PM

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lol that's a pretty funny hypothesis.... it certainly does make you wonder how their past encounters have played out, since they at least know some information about each other. That relationship is certainly possible.

"Impotence is a sin" is kind of misleading, since that's actually based on a poor translation. "muryoku wa tsumi da" is better translated as "being helpless is a sin"... and in Raki's case he is very sinful.

I am a banana.
May 27, 2010 11:00 PM
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well, in english, impotence actually works as it often is synominous with inaction/cowardise/helplessness

I just didn't want to go into this detail/explain about it in my previous post.


in english, impotence represents both "needing viagra" and inaction/cowardice/helplessness

the Nike's slogan, "just do it", be it a physical/leadership action or sexual action. failure to do either, is impotence and a sin for a male.

the male is suppose to be the "do-er", the one whom takes action, takes charge, or leadership of a situation or during mating. so a failure of either of these is impotence and a sin for a male.

the male builds cities, goes to work and brings home the money, solves problems, puts the baby in the female, and etc. all of these are suppose to be the male's roles/jobs for his gender, so failure to do/complete these jobs is impotence and a sin for a male.
HegemonKhanMay 27, 2010 11:12 PM
May 27, 2010 11:25 PM

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well, at any rate there is not really any sexual connotation in "muryoku" in japanese.... the kanji literally means "lack of power"... I think you're reading too far into it.

I am a banana.
Aug 7, 2010 8:11 PM

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Latest chapter, 106, is making your theory seem all the more likely. Rubel seems to know too much and he's too smug. Plus when he told the other guys they should be impressed with the intruder (Miria), they never even questioned him, which implies he has a higher ranking in the Organization than them.

soaring_wings said:

I found the Rig theory really interesting, but wasn't he bleeding? I don't think youma bleed...but I don't really remember that part too well. ^^;;;;
Although, Rig did have almost a youma-like expression during his attempted rape.


I take this back. I was looking at some earlier chapters and Youma do give off something that looks like blood when cut. When Claire cuts off the head of a Youma at the start of chapter two, something like blood gushes out. The weird thing is, when she cut off the arms of the Youma that was in Raki's brother's body, no blood gushed out. But when you see the corpse later, there is something like blood surrounding it. So I'm a little confused as to whether Youma bleed....but at the least, they have been shown to do so.
soaring_wingsAug 7, 2010 8:19 PM
Aug 10, 2010 11:10 PM
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yomas bleed. there's many examples. if there's actually some pics/scenes where they don't, yagi simply got lazy lol or forgot to show blood or maybe it is "off screen" or maybe they were cut so fast, that the blood hadn't had time to spurt out yet, lol.

the best example is irene, at/with how Sophia and Noel commented how not a single drop of yoma blood splattered on irene yet she was right next to the two yoma she Quick Sworded into pieces, with their blood splattering all around her, but not on her, hehe.

Quick Sword all that blood away from your clothes, Irene! LOLOLOL

--------------------------------------------------------------------

the anime makes it much clearer too:

humans have normal red blood, and the yomas' blood is given a green or purple color (can't remember which, lol, and too lazy to look up as well).
Aug 10, 2010 11:18 PM
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regardless of what you think of Rubel (is he really a spy or did he make all that up. is he friendly with Miria/Ghosts or not. etc.):

his behavior in chapter 106 is very mysterious, purplexing, enigmatic, and strange...

I can't really figure anything out from his behavior in chapter 106, I don't know what to think or make of it (Rubel's behavior) and himself...

I mean he even muses nonchallantly if Miria is going to try to kill him... LOL

------

also, jsut something I noticed:

for the very very very very very first time, we see "disfiguration" in/with Rubel!!!!

in one of the pics on chapter 106, his hand appears to have bulgy veins forming on it.....

is Rubel going to reveal himself and turn into a "god-Awakened" leader of the Organization (or maybe a Dragon of the other side) and tear Miria to shreds (or help Miria destroy the Organization)... lol....
HegemonKhanAug 10, 2010 11:24 PM
Aug 15, 2010 8:39 PM

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HegemonKhan said:


also, jsut something I noticed:

for the very very very very very first time, we see "disfiguration" in/with Rubel!!!!

in one of the pics on chapter 106, his hand appears to have bulgy veins forming on it.....

is Rubel going to reveal himself and turn into a "god-Awakened" leader of the Organization (or maybe a Dragon of the other side) and tear Miria to shreds (or help Miria destroy the Organization)... lol....


I went back and noticed it as well. It's not too bad though, just a single vein. What bothers me is that most of the Org. dudes have weird eyes and Rubel wears glasses, so I'm wonder what kind of eyes he's really got. Hopefully nothing too creepy. ^^;;;

Also, I hope not. I love Miria and I don't want her to be killed off. :(
Aug 17, 2010 6:12 PM
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that's Rubel's secret!!!

his eyes! he's got the mangenki (or whatever those eyes in naruto of ichiha are called), the rinnegan (6 paths sage)... hehe.
Nov 5, 2010 6:59 PM
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HegemonKhan said:
that's Rubel's secret!!! his eyes!


Rubel probably has eyes like a yoma, or a claymore when they use 10% of their power. so i speculate that not only is he the REAL leader of the organization, he's also a MAB in disguise, or another Male Creature of the abyss, maybe even more powerful than Easley, or just as powerful, why else would he hide his eyes? all the other black coats have weird eyes, and are showing them, so this is the only explanation for Rubel hiding his eyes that makes sense to me.
Nov 5, 2010 8:32 PM

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...or maybe he just thinks they look cool haha. :D

It's even possible he doesn't have eyes at all... ! :D

I believe Rubel and the rest are all awakened beings, and that they are doing research to create some kind of perfect bioweapon (for the main continent if we are to believe Rubel). I find it kind of odd though that the Organization, if they are powerful beasts themselves, go to such great lengths not to use their own powers -- they are always making weapons to counteract weapons and never interfering directly. I wonder why their powers are sealed, or if they are simply adhering to some principle of noninterference in their experiments. I guess we won't know until the Org finally gets cornered with no weapons remaining to throw at the heroines...

I am a banana.
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