Crunchyroll is censoring even subtitles now!

I don't think this is censorship.
More that the translator is just trying to turn uniquely Japanese expressions etc into English, while also trying to have it sound natural.
This falls in line with the tweet shown from the translator where he says he is new and is asking for tips on how to translate Onomatopoeia.

The fansubs shown in comparison are just lazy as shit, which results in them being more "direct" translations, at the expense of sounding awkward.
In the first image comparison:


The Japanese is 髪は女の命 literally "hair is a woman's life" (along those lines). This is a relatively common expression in Japanese, but not in English. The fansub translation in the image is kind of clunky, because we don't talk like that in English, and life can have a different meaning in English than the meaning in the Japanese. The word for life used in the Japanese sentence, refers only to the meaning of life or death.
The translator for crunchyroll has chosen a more wordy approach (perhaps too wordy) in order to translate the sentence in a more natural sounding way, while trying to avoid a direct translation because it is not something we say in English.
This doesn't come across as censorship.

okay second image: 


In the Japanese she says 女の子座り.
This is basically just one word, and if you were to translate it literally, it would just be "girl sitting" or something like that. It refers to a style of sitting (the one she is doing in the picture).
Again, this isn't something we would normally say in English, but it is far less difficult to translate than the first image.

The CR translator is trying to create a conversational flow that sounds natural in English. Now, personally, I wouldn't have translated it like he did, because you are losing some information. Sitting differently, sure, but how is it different? Well, she's sitting like a girl. That information is missing. But, this doesn't strike me as "censorship" (that doesn't even make sense here), just a different style of translation from someone who is admittedly new to this.

And the third image:


So, this line was probably the most difficult of the three to translate.
It uses the expression 板につく. Another expression that isn't used in English (hmm I'm sensing a trend here).
It's used when you've gotten used to doing something, or when something has become more natural to you/easier to do.
In this case, both translations aren't very good.
The CR translator has tried to use an English expression instead to replace it, but it doesn't really fit this situation quite as well. Yes, it is missing the word for girl here, but that seems to be more a fault of the expression the translator is trying to use. Are you going to say, "You've really gotten into the swing of being a girl"? That comes off as even more awkward sounding, which is obviously what the translator wants to avoid.
Meanwhile the fansub translation is just being really lazy here.


All in all, I don't really see any censorship, and this whole thing seems to be overblown.
It's just a new translator trying his best to translate things, being compared to lazy fansubs which are always going to be more literal translations.
If you really care that much, then learn Japanese and stop being an English only peasant.

its really getting out of hand... the fuck is wrong with them?

Well, people will complain about anything as long as it came ou of Chrunchyroll. Like, I dislike them, but this thread is just way too out of hand with the dumbness. As I said in my first post, it's almost like people can't use their brain to put 2 and 2 together to get the context behind what is being said.

I think a lot of anime viewers on a site like this, are more accepting of fansubs, just because they are so used to them. They have less of a problem with literal, awkward translations, as long as they are correct.
A lot of viewers also have a very basic grasp of some Japanese vocab, so someone might notice when a character says "onna no ko", but the word girl isn't in the sub.
It is what it is. There is a lot more to translating than just swapping out words, it can be pretty difficult at times. And for a site like crunchyroll, they are targeting a mainstream audience, which might not be familiar with any japanese-isms, or less accepting of awkwardly written subtitles.

There also have been a lot of cases of censorship regarding translations, for example in the latest Fire Emblem game, the translations remove any text that could imply romance between the protagonist and the girls, and instead rewrite the dialogue. So I get it that some people are more on edge, or more ready to grab pitchforks if they think there is censorship going on.

Censorship is something that happens, it just isn't happening here.

I have the same opinion on this subject. Of course, I prefer the B-Global version because I prefer faithfulness to the original instead of "sounding good." I realize that I'm watching something that isn't from my culture, and I don't expect to localize the dialogues in such a way that the characters sound like someone speaking my language as if the whole thing was written in my language (or more like - I don't want it). I'm not talking about grammar here, because grammar has to be correct. I'm talking about the style of speech and the words used to describe certain things.


But getting to the point - this translation really isn't as bad as many people here say.

Just look at what hidive does with Urusei Yatsura and other series every season. There, somehow no one bothers that the whole tone of everything is changed which is downright comically bad.


And the funniest people here are the biggest hypocrites, i.e. people who use dubbing and criticize these subtitles while they lose incomparably more by watching the dubs than in these (or any other) subtitles.

This is stupid to even complain about. It gets across the same meaning, so I don't see the issue with the removal of gendered language. The lines still make logical sense, convey the same meaning, its just the word choice is different and that's honestly ok. If it completely said something different that would be weird but it doesn't it still means basically the same thing it is just worded differently and that is a thing that tends to happen with different translators. They may translate the same thing differently and getting rid of gendered language like this does not really impact the line at all. There are much better things to be complaining about than this instance of a different word choice than the one you wanted.

Isekai meikyuu is censored on cr. Know cuz I watched it there. Meikyuu and world's end harem were licensed but crunchyroll did very little to promote them. They got snubbed from any awards. They licensed dal but snubbed it from all awards despite dominating sites like corner and trendz. And dal is a major franchise and it is barely controversial yet it got snubbed.

Cr is also in California, the wokest state in the US. Cr allied Anitube even defended netflix cowboy Bebop until critics and audience ripped it up to shreds.

Cr needs to better promote shows regardless of "genre". Nowadays it seems unwanted stuff like redo of healer or interspecies reviewers just get dumped on hidive.

Biggest point is while cr licenses stuff, the ideas, publishers, creators are all in Japan. So free of western influence. The only thing they had full creative control was high guardian spice and we know how that turned out. It is impossible to be free of the woke mob in the west. I see it on reddit and a lot of mal all the time. If you are big as cr, there is massive pressure.

The mob probably left star wars and marvel and went to reddit after the quartering and anti sjw tube came. They found their home at anime which there isn't much of a gatekeeping essence. The attitude towards fanservice has completely changed in like the last few years. Like fire force now vs gurrren then

i respectfully disagree, there are no bad reasons to pirate anime. piracy is always valid

Another act of degeneracy from a western company, I am not surprised.

This will become valid once you find an actual reason to pirate anime. Since there is no proof that these subs contain censorship, then I see nothing valid in what you just said. It's even more stupid considering piracy rip off the subs from legal sources. Was it really that hard to find a legitimate excuse or are you seriously such a dumbass?

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Just shows that crunchyroll and mainstream liberal media does not care about anime fans. They despise their medium, look down upon them. Call them the worst things possible like a pedo, ist, phobe, stupid etc.

All they care about is their woke virtue signaling and attacking the fans. They pay the workers like shit, put no effort into their website, hire npc writers and youtubers to attack anime they deem against the agenda, barely work on home releases, snub shows from awards. This is how you got high guardian spice.

They only like the mob that wants to cancel shows and smear fans

This thread is so chronically online and I'm going to go touch grass for everyone's sake. I encourage y'all to do exactly the same because the amount of people I see absolutely disconnected from reality on here... 

Stop making the fact that you watch anime your identity. What Crunchyroll and other fans think about "you" should not bother you at all. If someone calls you a pedo and you aren't actually attracted to young children, then just ignore them because it's not true. It's not true, and you don't need to prove it to anyone as long as it truly isn't. But you can only achieve that mindset if you disconnect being an anime fan from your identity.

Woke this, woke that, jesus I can't even understand what you are saying. 

This isn't 2016 anymore

Isekai Meikyuu is very much uncensored on Crunchyroll

Just checked on browser and mobile. Still Grey pop-ups on harem in the labyrinth. If there is a country where this is uncensored, let me know and I will vpn to it

Is that screenshot even possible? Crunchyroll dmca's their content. They also still advertise stuff. It can be labeled as misogynistic and companies can pull their advertising. Apple stopped advertising on Twitter as soon as musk came in. Even if crunchyroll was neutral or against the agenda, they still have to rely on big corporations for advertising revenue. And those corporations freak out over anime, particularly with uncensored nipples. This is kind of why free speech is dying in the west. Hidive you can only access stuff by subscription so more uncensored stuff on there.

Yes it's possible, you just have to select the Harem version, which you probably didn't do. 

Isekai Meikyuu is premium only, so it's not like there's any ads playing for that show. 

They should get around to censoring gore instead. I mean gore that isn't even fun to watch, like in the last seasons of Higuarashi.

@Zalis
@Saku_k

Thank you for a detailed and informative reply, most people veered off the topic and 3/4 of the thread got filled with people from two opposite sides of the spectrum criticizing each other. 

I do not know Japanese, but having watched anime for almost 8 years, I can easily understand very simple phrases and words. I was worried that this was a case of censorship because I would really hate it if that was true. To be fair, while I acknowledge that it was my lack of knowledge about translating practices and Japanese in general which led me to assume everything, my post wasn't politically motivated. I just wanted the subs to convey what the anime has to offer without cutting down or rewriting any information. Looks like my worries for this particular anime were for nothing, but reading your replies did give me insight and made me realize that in this particular case, the translations weren't inappropriate or 'censoring' anything. 

whats Crunchyroll never heard of it before, *goes back to pirating again*

The biggest reason is because not all anime people want to watch is on Trashy Roll, so yeah, A very valid reason to watch on free sites. It isn't even "piracy" to watch on free sites lmao. Oh and half of the stuff on that site is Premium account only now, so there's that too. 

Found it thanks. Surprisingly crunchyroll didn't reject it and dump it on hidive like what happenned to redo of healer

Yeah, I saw that too and while it makes sense and I can agree, We still can’t completely rule out that the translation was not influenced by personal “politics”. (That’s in parenthesis because what is considered politics today was not just 5 years ago.) people have reason to speculate and people also have a reason to believe it’s not a big deal. I can see why both are the case here. It’s just a little suspicious when you look at the bigger picture. Or maybe we are blowing it out of proportion idk. I just know that these people’s speculations aren’t baseless when you factor in what’s been happening to every other form of media in the west today.

I truly don't care. If it offends you or smt how about not watching it from Crunchyroll?

Oh God... Their gonna call him/her THEY instead in the dub aren't they?...

 You can always go for the fan subs, which is usually the case anyway.
So what if the "gender" of being girls or whatever isn't mentioned.
The examples given, still the conversation seemed reasonable.
A conversation always starts off with a "subject", but the Japanese have a way of speaking so usually best interpretation is what you've got.
The guy/girl needed a job and did the best they could.

At the end of the day @Fukia...

Your paying for it, so you have the right to bitch about it, but shouldn't you direct this to Crunchyroll?

From my understanding,... Crunchyroll seems to be doing this wholesome "disney" thing, so....

It's unlikely your thread will get locked for mentioning piracy, now putting in a link would be grounds for removal.

Not that I care since I prefer physical releases, but is Crunchyroll owned by Sony?

I mean, Crunchyroll is owned by Sony, so...

Are we gonna still pretend to surprise about this? lol

Oh you sweet sweet summer child

That's just western media in general. 

What's the problem with Sony?

I mean, you literally have anime produced by Sony in your favs...

which side of this argument are the fanatics? I can't tell sorry

giga chad
that is unironically something joker would say lol idk why

What politics are we actually talking about here? The logical conclusion is that the translator may have toned down a couple of these dated/sexist expressions that stereotype girls/women, but the morons here are trying to imply this is some sort of sex/gender erasure, despite the fact "girl" is used many other times in CR's subtitles, which makes this a nonsensical claim. To be clear, CR is definitely not censoring all lines that could be considered sexist or that are stereotyping gendered behavior, because that obviously just comes with the territory for "gender-bender" shows like this.  

they're afraid the government will come take their dicks if we let this gender censorship slide

Also, as a native English speaker I would happily take CR's subtitles over the fucking broken English of fan-subs, that shit hurts to read. 

Wow that is so surprising(not) lmao

In this case, those who will err on the side of putting a spin on the script more in line with their ideology and advancing their worldview, including around issues of sex and gender, rather than just translate what is actually said as close as coherently possible.

OR... you're just plain fucking wrong, "girl" is used multiple times in CR's Onimai subs, which completely invalidates your so called argument. 

I already read through most of the thread topic and heard that already being stated multiple times to others and I disagree completely that it makes any difference whatsoever. It comes off like a completely false "so-called argument" to me, to suggest that because someone didn't do something in every instance (in this case, translate something a certain way), that somehow negates, makes better, or in any, way, shape, of form erases or minimizes the instances where they did do so or the likely underlying intent behind it. If that is your "argument", then we just completely disagree and will find no agreement even remotely. I hope more and more people who exemplify the type of decisionmaking and the thought process behind it this thread topic centers around are actively disempowered over at that company and have the lever of decisions pried from their hands.

The fact it's used in other aspects of the show demonstrates there's no validity to the claim they're "censoring gendered language" in any meaningful capacity, that shouldn't even be up for debate. Plus, I know damn well that your argument here isn't confined to the fact that the translator may have toned down a few lines of on the nose stereotypes about girls into something that sounds less outright sexist/dated, because that would just be completely fucking asinine. Not to mention that an American company is under absolutely no obligation to directly translate the subs, with no localization or attempt to make it sound natural to American audiences. 

The fact that it's used in other aspects of the show in no way, shape, of form demonstrates anything of the kind one bit. All it demonstrates is less obvious heavy-handedness than would otherwise be the case. As I said, I already read multiple instances of that being stated to others by other users when reading through the thread topic and considered it completely false and a BS argument then and now, disagreeing with it vehemently. I didn't say anything because I wasn't originally intending to heavily participate in this discussion, but am saying so now since you and another user addressed me directly. It's a fallacious argument to the core. Doing something half of the time or even 10% of the time as opposed to all of the time in no way alters the negative nature of the thing being done just because it isn't as excessive as it could be. That thing should still be identified and called out each and every time without fail before the wrong impression is conveyed that it's something well-received or desirable which should be encouraged or even tolerated. That's the nature of something like this.

As for what you claim to "know" about what my argument is or isn't, if you truly believe that (that that isn't my argument) then you're simply incorrect. We just would completely and vehemently disagree on such being "asinine" or what constitutes "asinine" or "important" in the first place, likely down to valuing very different things. No, those "on the nose stereotypes" absolutely shouldn't be "toned down" because they either are "sexist" or "dated" or because you or anyone else views them to be "sexist" or "dated". Judgment over what is sexist or not should have absolutely less than zero to do with what gets translated how. The dialogue should be translated as close as coherently possible without exception, and not weaponized to suit the ideological worldview of the translator over the actual writing and closest intelligible intent of the author/creator. That's not "asinine" even the slightest bit. It's fundamental and crucial. What they did is vile behavior.

And as far as "that an American company is under absolutely no obligation to directly translate the subs", who said anything about "obligation"? People aren't obligated to pay for their service either and neither are people who do or don't pay for their service obligated not to criticize them for their decisions and choices. So "obligation" factors into it little.


 

It's not "ideological" to localize subtitles. You type like a fucking robot, so I can see why you would be content with poorly worded English subtitles.

Just weeaboos not understanding how localization works, as usual

You seem extremely media literate! For those of us in the back—can you, in your own words, describe, as best to your ability, what you, personally, think the translator's "ideological worldview" is? ty!

Yes, it is completely and 100% ideological to "localize subtitles" in a way which is intended to, as you put it in your own words, "tone down" what you call "on the nose stereotypes" and "outright sexist/dated" phrasing. That you seemingly cannot see that or disagree with it is what it is, but it's not my problem.

As for what I say and how I say it, as I predicted well in advance and was easy to surmise, we will find no agreement or common ground even remotely in general on this topic or anything related as it comes down to valuing different things. I can also see why you would think the way you think and believe and advocate for the things you do as it comes across to me as well by the way you communicate. I just hope those with the same or similar mentality aren't given more control over decisionmaking in places like that.

I would have if you didn't go out of your way needless to transparently act in a sarcastic and condescending, passive aggressive fashion. Instead, since that was indeed the case, just refer to my conversation with the other guy if requiring clarification as it was addressed already exactly there.  

Having not seen the show, but having read quite a bit of the manga (approx. up 'till what was out 2 years ago), I would expect a lot of 'like a girl' moments to exist. As such, you'd find substitutes whenever. So that you don't mindlessly repeat 'like a girl' everytime. Having read a chinese cultivation 'ln', I can tell you that when someone does that, it's the opposite of fun.
Also, I agree that you might want to have someone look over what someone translates if it's the first time they're doing this, but at the same time, consider this: If they're getting hired, they have the qualification. Also, there is no 'right way' to translate something.
All in all, I agree with the changes proposed, and am not really happy that the translator's getting such slack for it.

I was wholeheartedly, completely, and unequivocally, serious. Sorry if I offended you with my question. I would love a proper response if you come around to seeing that I wasn't sarcastic though!

God, I just sat down and compared this episode with both the fan-sub and the CR subtitles, and the CR subs are easily more coherent and natural sounding to a native speaker, which is why I found it incredibly distressing that the awkward, often poorly worded English, actually seemed to be a better fit, which just goes to show how much I've become used to these god damn fan-subs. lmao 

Also, it's apparently a vile, unconscionable, indefensible abuse of authority for the translator to simply make the language more neutral, while still conveying the same general meaning, because repeating "do x thing like a girl" could easily come across as obnoxious, given how blatantly on the nose it is in regards to gender stereotypes. Obviously, this can only be interpreted as politically motivated, the translator is trying to hijack the show in order to indoctrinate us with their ideology.