| art is subjective they say but at the same time those considered masterpiece are universally praise by critics for example and universal means objective in a way since its observed commonly so thoughts on the matter? i do not know (your vote) |
degAug 11, 2022 4:02 AM
| Objective masterpiece = something normies and real anime souls agree on. |
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| Here you go: > Good Anime + High Score = Objective Masterpiece > Good Anime + Mid Score = Subjective Masterpiece |
| It's a mix of both. You look at technical aspects, the flow, the characters, the plot, that's objective. But at the end of the day, what determines a masterpiece is the opinion of a person, subjective that is. If a critic says this is a masterpiece but I disagree, does it mean it isn't a masterpiece? For me it definitely isn't, but what the other feels is otherwise and vice versa. |
deg said: art is subjective it's not tho lol anyway, it is objective judgement, and not in the way you are thinking. there's no workaround to what is smart and what isn't. it's not too hard to make an objectively good piece of work tho (given you have the skill). |
| one piece is peak fiction and a master piece is objective and a fact . there is no denying this . |
| ๐
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ฐ >>>>>> ๐๐
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ด โOโdโaโ โcโoโuโlโdโ โwโrโiโtโeโ โRโoโmโeโoโ โ&โ โJโuโlโiโeโtโ โbโuโtโ โSโhโaโkโeโsโpโeโaโrโeโ โcโoโuโlโdโ โnโeโvโeโrโ โwโrโiโtโeโ โOโnโeโ โPโiโeโcโeโ |
NextUniverse said: deg said: art is subjective it's not tho lol anyway, it is objective judgement, and not in the way you are thinking. there's no workaround to what is smart and what isn't. it's not too hard to make an objectively good piece of work tho (given you have the skill). can you elaborate on why art is not subjective at least? |
| I believe it is some mixture of both. Obviously, something can be objectively good, (well-done animation, good pacing, well-written dialogue, a thought-out story), but there still is and always will be a subjective degree, people have different life experiences and things they look to fiction for, so what in one story might be appealing and appreciated by one individual won't be the same for another. There are certainly anime that everyone can agree are bad and a waste of time, and there are also a certain group of anime that most people agree are great and worth watching, but I don't personally think there will ever be some purely objective criteria that everyone can agree upon that proves once and for all which anime is good and bad. |
| It is subjective, but when it is widely recognized it becomes objective. |
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deg said: NextUniverse said: it's not tho lol anyway, it is objective judgement, and not in the way you are thinking. there's no workaround to what is smart and what isn't. it's not too hard to make an objectively good piece of work tho (given you have the skill). can you elaborate on why art is not subjective at least? The tldr of it is that there are standards people need to follow for something to work. No one just waltzes into a room, does something entirely random and can be expected to have their work treated as something that can fit anywhere on the line of quality. I'd be a fucking millionaire if that was the case. |
| a masterpiece is show that is objectively great. but it being a 10/10 instead of a 9/10 or something is subjective. so its a mix of both. |
| Also available at: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA An AMV I that I spend way too much time on: A Love Letter To AnimeใAMVใ: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
NextUniverse said: The tldr of it is that there are standards people need to follow for something to work. No one just waltzes into a room, does something entirely random and can be expected to have their work treated as something that can fit anywhere on the line of quality. I'd be a fucking millionaire if that was the case. this standards you speak of is it the tropes and genres for example? like battle shonen is a gold standard for the anime industry? |
| Love people who think as long as they attach a score to a breakdown of anime components it makes it "objective." Anyway, it's subjective, of course. |
| It's objective. Completely based on facts. https://myanimelist.net/anime/39392/Master_Piece_The_Animation |
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| It's completely, absolutely subjective |
Attackonfiller said: It's objective. Completely based on facts. https://myanimelist.net/anime/39392/Master_Piece_The_Animation lol great hentai, uncensored version when so i can score it 10/10 |
| Common collective subjective opinion won't become objective. It still subjective opinion but may be a popular subjective opinion. Art is subjective. Opinion of critics is still subjective no matter who's opinion it is. |
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| Everyone is biased regardless of what they say. Using mal we can in a democratic vote objectively say a highly rated anime is great or a masterpiece depending on how highly rated it is. At the end of the day everyone has different tastes and no one will 100% agree on anything so its fantastic we can discuss these topics and really get a broader idea of what constitutes as a good or bad anime. |
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| Although it should be objective, it's inevitable that some level of subjectivity creeps in, that's just the limitation. |
 Maybe try sleeping? |
NextUniverse said: The tldr of it is that there are standards people need to follow for something to work. No one just waltzes into a room, does something entirely random and can be expected to have their work treated as something that can fit anywhere on the line of quality. I'd be a fucking millionaire if that was the case. And may I ask who sets those standards you talk about. First of all what's that criteria you even talking about? That so called standards are different for different people. Art is subjective. I don't get how people think it is objective. Even if the assessment contains quantifiable elements when we consider it as whole then the subjective elements plays the major role. |
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kizumi91 said: Here you go: > Good Anime + High Score = Objective Masterpiece > Good Anime + Mid Score = Subjective Masterpiece Is this a joke? Sotara said: It is subjective, but when it is widely recognized it becomes objective. Nope, it still stays as subjective or may be a popular subjective opinion. GODA007299 said: one piece is peak fiction and a master piece is objective and a fact . there is no denying this . It's not a fact. It's just your opinion. |
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| If you try to judge something objectively that's just your subjective decision. |
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| I like an anime, its good. I like an anime a lot, its very good. I like an anime like, a loooot, its a masterpiece. Pretty simple if I say so myself. |
| I watch anime and love my anime. And not to forget, live for anime |
Lincanfer said: kizumi91 said: Here you go: > Good Anime + High Score = Objective Masterpiece > Good Anime + Mid Score = Subjective Masterpiece Is this a joke? Nope, it's a solid fact. Nobody would complain if I told them that FMAB and Kaguya is a masterpiece. |
| Masterpiece when 1. Anime has a lot of fanbase 2. Anime get excellent score 3. Credibility that admitted by various source internationally So literally its objective at all, since any anime that can reach top 20 in anikore n MAL if doesnt fulfill it then its invalid like FMAB the number 1 forever LOL https://www.anikore.jp/pop_ranking/ kizumi91 said: Here you go: > Good Anime + High Score = Objective Masterpiece > Good Anime + Mid Score = Subjective Masterpiece IpreferEcchi said: sonotoriiiObjective masterpiece = something normies and real anime souls agree on. |
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kizumi91 said: Nope, it's a solid fact. Nobody would complain if I told them that FMAB and Kaguya is a masterpiece. Why did you take out the word objective? I don't care what you call as masterpiece. My problem is with that subjective/objects masterpiece you are talking about. I don't get it how a average score on something from different people become objective fact at the end? |
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| There is now objective when it comes to tase so subjective |
 _______I like rocks__  |
deg said: this standards you speak of is it the tropes and genres for example? like battle shonen is a gold standard for the anime industry? nah, even simpler. just good storytelling skills (like no plot holes), good characterisation skills, good animation technique (no off-model and the likes). ------- Lincanfer said: And may I ask who sets those standards you talk about. First of all what's that criteria you even talking about? That so called standards are different for different people. Art is subjective. I don't get how people think it is objective. Even if the assessment contains quantifiable elements when we consider it as whole then the subjective elements plays the major role. Standards that are based on what works and what doesn't, which are usually tied to criteria that are based on animators of the past who understood what makes a good animation good. Also tying in writers because it's not just plain animation at the end of the day. These "different people" happen to be the most knowledge in the field. Even if they were spouting nonsense, they wouldn't be as successful as they were because nonsense doesn't really work well with people. I don't think objective is something people look at correctly. No one is exactly saying everything is based on the holy anime blueprint for all of anime, but rather, there are different ways to achieve similar levels of successful anime. I like to point out to large companies as an example. Shit like Apple, McDonald's and Disney are all different things yet have achieved huge success from good decisions made by expert businessmen (or so I'd like to think so). Anime has the same logic in that so long as people are using great ideas in intelligent ways, then you can have good anime. If not objective then at the very least, it is absolute. |
Lincanfer said: kizumi91 said: Here you go: > Good Anime + High Score = Objective Masterpiece > Good Anime + Mid Score = Subjective Masterpiece Is this a joke? Sotara said: It is subjective, but when it is widely recognized it becomes objective. Nope, it still stays as subjective or may be a popular subjective opinion. GODA007299 said: one piece is peak fiction and a master piece is objective and a fact . there is no denying this . It's not a fact. It's just your opinion. one piece clears all your trash anime and manga at once with single hand . |
| ๐
ถ๐
พ๐
ณ๐
ฐ >>>>>> ๐๐
ท๐
ฐ๐
บ๐
ด๐๐
ฟ๐
ด๐
ฐ๐๐
ด โOโdโaโ โcโoโuโlโdโ โwโrโiโtโeโ โRโoโmโeโoโ โ&โ โJโuโlโiโeโtโ โbโuโtโ โSโhโaโkโeโsโpโeโaโrโeโ โcโoโuโlโdโ โnโeโvโeโrโ โwโrโiโtโeโ โOโnโeโ โPโiโeโcโeโ |
GODA007299 said: Lincanfer said: Is this a joke? Nope, it still stays as subjective or may be a popular subjective opinion. It's not a fact. It's just your opinion. one piece clears all your trash anime and manga at once with single hand . And once again that's your opinion. |
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NextUniverse said: deg said: this standards you speak of is it the tropes and genres for example? like battle shonen is a gold standard for the anime industry? nah, even simpler. just good storytelling skills (like no plot holes), good characterisation skills, good animation technique (no off-model and the likes). ------- Lincanfer said: And may I ask who sets those standards you talk about. First of all what's that criteria you even talking about? That so called standards are different for different people. Art is subjective. I don't get how people think it is objective. Even if the assessment contains quantifiable elements when we consider it as whole then the subjective elements plays the major role. Standards that are based on what works and what doesn't, which are usually tied to criteria that are based on animators of the past who understood what makes a good animation good. Also tying in writers because it's not just plain animation at the end of the day. These "different people" happen to be the most knowledge in the field. Even if they were spouting nonsense, they wouldn't be as successful as they were because nonsense doesn't really work well with people. I don't think objective is something people look at correctly. No one is exactly saying everything is based on the holy anime blueprint for all of anime, but rather, there are different ways to achieve similar levels of successful anime. I like to point out to large companies as an example. Shit like Apple, McDonald's and Disney are all different things yet have achieved huge success from good decisions made by expert businessmen (or so I'd like to think so). Anime has the same logic in that so long as people are using great ideas in intelligent ways, then you can have good anime. If not objective then at the very least, it is absolute. Your reasoning makes sense, but I still don't agree with what you said jusfies to be called something as objective. It may be my perception is wrong. |
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| How is it universal if u don't agree...lol In the end of the day, that word is nothing more than shallow label if u dont like the said show. |
AdampkAug 11, 2022 9:11 AM
  Click for a anime mashup! Still not gone bandwagon u, keep crying. Here u are welcome to CRINGE at my EXISTENCE |
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| Objective Master Piece is objectively the only masterpiece anime ever made |
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| There are things in anime that are just objectively masterfully created and fall under a masterpiece. They honestly tend to be movies but - Evangelion - A Silent Voice - Liz and the blue bird honestly the only three objective masterpieces i can think of |
| We see this same thread at least 3 times per week |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Kafka, Fu Xuan, Jingliu, Topaz and Huohuo. |
That hentai is boring and overrated, don't know how it got 1st spot of hentai at a time here on MAL. |
kizumi91 said: Nope, it's a solid fact. Nobody would complain if I told them that FMAB and Kaguya is a masterpiece. I would lol. Kaguya is not a masterpiece, haven't watched FMAB. |
Ionliosite2 said: kizumi91 said: Nope, it's a solid fact. Nobody would complain if I told them that FMAB and Kaguya is a masterpiece. I would lol. Kaguya is not a masterpiece, haven't watched FMAB. That's why I said it's subjective masterpiece, you might not like it but majority of people do. |
Lincanfer said: kizumi91 said: Nope, it's a solid fact. Nobody would complain if I told them that FMAB and Kaguya is a masterpiece. Why did you take out the word objective? I don't care what you call as masterpiece. My problem is with that subjective/objects masterpiece you are talking about. I don't get it how a average score on something from different people become objective fact at the end? The higher the score is the higher the percentage of people love it. Many subjective opinions make objective opinions. |
Sotara said: It is subjective, but when it is widely recognized it becomes objective. How does that make sense though? Especially considering that "wide recognition" is being judged subjectively by each respective member. Also, just because many people believe something doesn't make it the truth. kizumi91 said: The higher the score is the higher the percentage of people love it. Many subjective opinions make objective opinions. What? That doesn't make sense. Many subjective opinions would still boil down to it being subjective. |
| Subarashii |
Lincanfer said: kizumi91 said: Here you go: > Good Anime + High Score = Objective Masterpiece > Good Anime + Mid Score = Subjective Masterpiece Is this a joke? Sotara said: It is subjective, but when it is widely recognized it becomes objective. Nope, it still stays as subjective or may be a popular subjective opinion. GODA007299 said: one piece is peak fiction and a master piece is objective and a fact . there is no denying this . It's not a fact. It's just your opinion. Avicebrons said: Sotara said: It is subjective, but when it is widely recognized it becomes objective. How does that make sense though? Especially considering that "wide recognition" is being judged subjectively by each respective member. Also, just because many people believe something doesn't make it the truth. kizumi91 said: The higher the score is the higher the percentage of people love it. Many subjective opinions make objective opinions. What? That doesn't make sense. Many subjective opinions would still boil down to it being subjective. Many opinions sum in one opinion, that is what make series cult. |
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| there is dada, abstract expressionist art, naive/outsider art, "primitive" art, zen ink painting, and so on.. to most people a urinal is not a piece of art, yet "fountain" is still in a museum. people look at a jackson pollock painting and say "i could've made that, why is it in a museum?" and a common dismissive response is "but you didn't!" part of the irony of these work though is that anyone really *could* make them, but they still go for absurd amounts of money in auctions and hang in museums and critics clamor over them because they are "conceptual." it takes these kinds of works to reveal how art functions. if you consider the object itself, it's just a urinal (or even more truthfully, a hunk of porcelain) or splatters of paint on canvas. the idea that it's conceptual art is a pure projection. and that reveals all one needs to understand about art: a work of art is an object, a surface that the viewer projects their beliefs and feelings onto. we believe the object contains some hidden mystery, a hidden fount from which it draws out its aesthetic appeal, a hidden meaning. it doesn't. there is no such thing as a universal set of standards for art or beauty, and i would say it's a bit too simplistic to dismiss the embrace of those disparate movements in art as "reactionary" to some truer or more natural, classical standard. everyday people stand in front of rothko or barnett newman paintings and cry just like everyday people do at the ceiling of the sistine chapel. there are canonical "masterpieces" by one set of standards that don't qualify by another. most people would probably have to agree that someone like norman rockwell is a "good artist," as in technically capable, and certainly a producer of iconic works. but plenty of artists and critics find his style and subject matter absolutely uninteresting. outside of classical art and revivals of those values (like in renaissance or neoclassical art) the idea of conventional aesthetic perfection is pretty much *universally* challenged. the constructed standards people come up with by which to judge different types of art are intersubjective, and so the judgment of how precisely a work meets those standards is subjective as well. with anime, we don't really have these various competing movements and schools of thought with varying sets of standards. there are only the standards and aims of the industry, which doesn't simply care about providing a forum where freely making art is possible. kyoani, shaft and science saru are realistically far more similar than they are different. anime fans do not seem to take well to art that follows standards that are vastly different from those of their beloved anime industry daddy: to be pleasing, trendy, goodlooking, easy to understand, etc. (and what these words even means depends on the audience you're selling to. old anime aren't goodlooking to young people. older people cannot always easily understand contemporary pop culture references and ethical choices.) just look at how some independent animations on here are rated. look at how any marginally abstract or obtuse work with a few obscure references gets accused of being "fake deep" or "trying to be smart." it seems like people are uncomfortable with the idea of things they don't know about or understand existing in the world, so they want their entertainment to hide all evidence of it, rather than bring it to their attention. such works aren't following the typical standards the anime industry prescribes for its products, because they don't try to be. maybe a masterpiece is a work of art that is provocative or displeasing. well, you won't find those very much in anime. so if we're saying these works can't be in the running to be called masterpieces, we're just saying "the anime industry's standards are the best." which i disagree with, personally! |
Sotara said: Many opinions sum in one opinion, that is what make series cult. Can't even decipher this response. Regardless. As soon as you bring in opinions, you are quite literally by definition making it subjective. Not objective. |
| Subarashii |
| personally it only ever becomes objective when certain criteria or rubrics are strictly enforced by people with credentials. that way, it guarantees the credibility since they're seasoned veterans who're most familiar in the fields. otherwise masterpiece is a subjective judgement, not to mention divisive too. as for general consensus, it's not reliable determinant to be considered objective, but it does have the advantage to strongly support the work. |
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Avicebrons said: Sotara said: Many opinions sum in one opinion, that is what make series cult. Can't even decipher this response. Regardless. As soon as you bring in opinions, you are quite literally by definition making it subjective. Not objective. Why me? I wrote about many opinions. |
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| I mean, there's a reason why After War Gundam X is the pinnacle of Mecha |
| Posts like this should always be avoided, it's a clickbait to a battle royal.. |
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