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Apr 27, 2022 9:59 AM
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May 2021
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i dont wanna read that. but i'm pretty sure MT isn't underrated, in fact, i think it's fairly rated. i have a lot mutuals giving it good praise and appreciations, MT also has a lot of attention in the anime community (both the anime and LN). Soo..... i don't understand how can you call it "underrated" , this season has a 8.7+ score and i think it deserves the score and definitely lives up to the hype.
Apr 28, 2022 6:16 PM
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Mar 2021
233
yeah, no. this show is neither of those two things. if you ask me, it gets worshipped by a lot of people actually. Don't get me wrong, it's a good show, and I enjoyed watching it. But I'm kind of tired of people thinking the show gets so much hate when it doesn't. it gets little hate compared to other shows.
Apr 29, 2022 1:49 AM
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Dec 2021
59
PgkMAL0215 said:
I am SO tired of hearing the one, same grievance people have with this show. (i.e. Rudy’s perverted disposition). Congratulations, you understand that the protagonist (at least at the beginning of our journey) is deeply flawed and morally reprehensible. What also drives me crazy is that they use this and extrapolate to say that the show in its entirety is bad. This is very hypocritical, however. Off the top of your head think of all the anime or shows in general with deeply sinful/morally bankrupt individuals as the protagonist. Shows like “Breaking Bad”, for example. Yet, do we hear people saying this show is terrible because of Walter White’s character flaws? No! So why, simply because of Rudeus’ specific flaw of perversion, should it be any different. I stand firm in saying that Mushoku Tensei is an objectively well-made and compelling show. Here’s my diatribe:

The pacing is amazing. The world building is deeply immersive. The art
direction, backgrounds, and animation are gorgeous, consistent, and, at times,
genuinely stunning. The narrative is intriguing and plot points expertly
interwoven, balancing its light-hearted, serious, and comedic moments well. The
characters and their development are realistic and yet still entertaining and
greatly engaging. The sound design is wistful and perfectly suits the setting. I
would challenge anyone to find me an aspect of this show that it is not
masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention. Once again, I truthfully believe the only reason this anime is not more highly rated or
appreciated by the wider anime community is simply because of Rudeus'
character flaws. However, I am convinced this is unjustified. His flaws are a necessity for displaying the grand purposes of this story which are growth, familv, and redemption. The show certainly isn’t for everyone and it’s not entirely perfect (as there’s only so much you can adapt from the source materials), so I understand that. But calling it an objectively bad show based off personal taste is completely unfounded. I would encourage everyone to read the LN/WN. And the what shows does, it does incredibly well. If the quality of production keeps up, the show should only get better over time and very well could end up being one of the greatest anime of the decade if they continue to adapt it well. Thanks for coming to my Ted x Talk.

My personal score for MT in terms of the MAL ranking system (as of S1 Part 2): 8.95-9.05/10

Edit: For clarification, I am not saying you have to love Mushoku Tensei nor do I think it’s a masterpiece. The appreciation/enjoyment of art is purely subjective. That being said, I think it deserves its MAL rating and perhaps should even be a little higher imo. Furthermore, I also believe that it’s the best anime in the isekai genre (though Re:zero is a very close second). The only point I was trying to make here is that, in my experience, many people downplay/disregard the quality of the show as a whole almost entirely because of their distaste for the main character. I despise that position because it’s entirely illogical. As an example, I don’t particularly like the Fate franchise nor Gintama. Despite that, I can recognize the greatness in quality of these shows and appreciate them from a distance. As a final note, “over-hated” may have been a better word to use in the title of this post instead of overrated

I also agree with you that it’s odd that people write off the entirety of the show based on Rudeus. It might be a bit different if the show was more focused on him but it’s more open and focuses on the world around him. It’s fine imo if you think “I don’t like the MC and don’t want to watch the show cause of it”, but that’s a lot different than “I don’t like the MC, therefore the whole show is bad”. I’ve read the entire LN so I may be a bit biased but the next season he gets exponentially better as a character due to certain circumstances. It may be that this show is receiving a lot of the more casual viewers, but I don’t see outrage towards Monogatari (my #1 anime), Fate, or every other isekai where the main character is scummy. Tldr don’t judge a whole show on 1 character, especially when the show is about world building.
Apr 29, 2022 2:05 AM

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Feb 2021
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I didn't read the whole thing but how is 8.75 rating underrated?
Apr 29, 2022 8:55 AM
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Mar 2022
17
I absolutely loved this show, it's been a while since I've seen an isekai that had such a proper adventure, I swear most other isekais just have the characters hanging around the same boring old city for a full season
Apr 30, 2022 4:11 AM
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Dec 2021
3
MT is truly the uncrowned isekai king.
I don't know how some people find slime better than MT
May 1, 2022 11:40 AM
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Apr 2022
48
Adronem said:
I didn't read the whole thing but how is 8.75 rating underrated?
I suppose when I say underrated, im not really referring to its MAL score, but its reception from the broader anime community. I personally do not think it’s received the praise it deserves for how truly original and high quality the show is in every aspect
May 1, 2022 11:25 PM
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Apr 2022
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it's not underrated,it won anime of the year on Crunchyroll it fairly rated or overrated,but yeah it's underappreciated people bashes the show for it's over the top degenerate echhi scene and perverted Mc
May 3, 2022 3:08 AM
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Sep 2021
222
Underrated? Oh nah. Literally titled as The Father Of Isekais
May 3, 2022 3:09 AM
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222
Klemanticytis said:
it's not underrated,it won anime of the year on Crunchyroll it fairly rated or overrated,but yeah it's underappreciated people bashes the show for it's over the top degenerate echhi scene and perverted Mc
bruh it didn't win anime of the year AOT did tf you on?
May 3, 2022 5:03 AM

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Feb 2019
2410
PgkMAL0215 said:
I am SO tired of hearing the one, same grievance people have with this show. (i.e. Rudy’s perverted disposition). Congratulations, you understand that the protagonist (at least at the beginning of our journey) is deeply flawed and morally reprehensible. What also drives me crazy is that they use this and extrapolate to say that the show in its entirety is bad. This is very hypocritical, however. Off the top of your head think of all the anime or shows in general with deeply sinful/morally bankrupt individuals as the protagonist. Shows like “Breaking Bad”, for example. Yet, do we hear people saying this show is terrible because of Walter White’s character flaws? No! So why, simply because of Rudeus’ specific flaw of perversion, should it be any different.


This is a perfect example of the Mushoku Tensei fanbase's only arguments in defence of their show, so I'll encourage all to listen up as I point out their issues.

Counterpoint 1 - It's not "Rudeus's perverted disposition." It's "Rudeus being an actual rapist and paedophile." This is a significant difference, trying to frame one as the other is disingenuous and shows you yourself admit his actual character is disgusting. You are not accurately reflecting the character and his actions, so your entire defence of him is rooted in a lie.

Counterpoint 2 - Moral flaws are not all equal. It's completely ridiculous to say that a rapist is equal to a drug dealer, or a murderer equal to someone who dodges taxes. Crimes do not all have the same punishment, and in the same way, characters "sinning" are not all the same. So, yes, it should "be any different."

Counterpoint 3 - It's not relevant whether or not other characters are getting denounced for their own moral flaws. You do not have to wait for someone to complain about another show for the same reason before you should be "allowed" to complain about that for this show. What you're really doing is just trying to shift the problem onto a different work of media, rather than actually face it honestly.

Counterpoint 4 - You're completely Straw Manning the complaint you're hearing. Rudeus having flaws is not the issue, the author framing the actions he does as a result of them as being excusable and worse, morally justified, is. This, you are completely ignoring, because there's no response you can make other than insisting that never happened in the first place, which is obviously false.

I stand firm in saying that Mushoku Tensei is an objectively well-made and compelling show. Here’s my diatribe:

The pacing is amazing. The world building is deeply immersive. The art
direction, backgrounds, and animation are gorgeous, consistent, and, at times,
genuinely stunning. The narrative is intriguing and plot points expertly
interwoven, balancing its light-hearted, serious, and comedic moments well. The
characters and their development are realistic and yet still entertaining and
greatly engaging. The sound design is wistful and perfectly suits the setting.


While I'm here, I'll also take the opportunity to note that this is a pretty awful attempt at praise. All you've done is list the various elements you think make up the show, and given each a positive adjective. What makes the pacing amazing? What about the world immerses you? Can you demonstrate how the art direction is done well, what is intriguing or "expertly" interwoven about the narrative, how you can claim that development is "realistic" or how sound design is supposed to be "wistful?" That last one really doesn't make sense, if anything, the sound design should vary to match the tone of each scene rather than exude one singular emotion.

I would challenge anyone to find me an aspect of this show that it is not
masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention.


Challenges are supposed to be hard. We've got the way the show oscillates in and out of its attempt at a theme while the author jams in pointless indulgencies, breaking up the pace of the story and development (limited though both be). We've got the world being agonisingly shallow, relying solely on established tropes and convenient contrivances rather than having events in both the past or present logically work together to paint a genuine setting. And we've also got. I could go on, but I'm sure that's past the extent of your curiosity.

Once again, I truthfully believe the only reason this anime is not more highly rated or
appreciated by the wider anime community is simply because of Rudeus'
character flaws. However, I am convinced this is unjustified. His flaws are a necessity for displaying the grand purposes of this story which are growth, familv, and redemption.


Oh, here's another common Mushoku Tensei defence. "It's supposed to be that way." Yes, nobody is claiming otherwise, the problem is that it being "that way" is an issue for the reasons catalogued above.

The show certainly isn’t for everyone and it’s not entirely perfect (as there’s only so much you can adapt from the source materials), so I understand that.


And another one, "it's not for everyone." Not for those with a a taste for intelligent media, certainly, but regardless, the relevancy of this? Nothing is made for everyone, someone without an interest in fantasy, for instance, wouldn't care for this even if it were acceptable.

And here's an interesting point, "it's not perfect," yet earlier you said "I would challenge anyone to find me an aspect of this show that it is not
masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention." Seems you've fulfilled your own challenge.

But calling it an objectively bad show based off personal taste is completely unfounded.


Nobody is, see what I discussed above. And even if the complaint people had was in fact what you Straw Manned it as, that still wouldn't be "personal taste." This is a completely nonsensical claim.

I would encourage everyone to read the LN/WN.


Why? How would that help? How is that relevant, actually? Even if he's portrayed as less of a swine in the source material, that doesn't mean his portrayal in the anime changes to match. This is just another case of trying to deflect to another piece of media.

And the what shows does, it does incredibly well. If the quality of production keeps up, the show should only get better over time and very well could end up being one of the greatest anime of the decade if they continue to adapt it well. Thanks for coming to my Ted x Talk.


Unverifiable speculation, not even worth touching.

My personal score for MT in terms of the MAL ranking system (as of S1 Part 2): 8.95-9.05/10

Edit: For clarification, I am not saying you have to love Mushoku Tensei nor do I think it’s a masterpiece.


What does masterpiece mean, then, in your eyes? Only claiming that every single part of the show was "masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention" should fulfil it. That's inconsistent, it seems you're now just backpedalling to save face.

The appreciation/enjoyment of art is purely subjective. That being said, I think it deserves its MAL rating and perhaps should even be a little higher imo. Furthermore, I also believe that it’s the best anime in the isekai genre (though Re:zero is a very close second).


That's just piling bad opinion onto bad opinion. I'll leave that for now, no use going on a tangent on why that too is awful.

The only point I was trying to make here is that, in my experience, many people downplay/disregard the quality of the show as a whole almost entirely because of their distaste for the main character. I despise that position because it’s entirely illogical.


Well, we've gone over how that's an inaccurate representation of the issue, so that's moot by now.

As an example, I don’t particularly like the Fate franchise nor Gintama. Despite that, I can recognize the greatness in quality of these shows and appreciate them from a distance.


You're a bit too far if you think those're great. But again, tangent.

As a final note, “over-hated” may have been a better word to use in the title of this post instead of overrated


Those are two completely opposite words. Over-hated means hated too much, overrated means rated too highly. No wonder confusion ensued.
Well I for one already loved Lain.
May 3, 2022 8:48 AM
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Apr 2022
48
Klemanticytis said:
it's not underrated,it won anime of the year on Crunchyroll it fairly rated or overrated,but yeah it's underappreciated people bashes the show for it's over the top degenerate echhi scene and perverted Mc
I’m not really sure what you’re referring to when you say MT won anime of the year for the Crunchyroll awards because it didn’t…. In fact, it wasn’t even nominated which further elucidates the point of my post
May 3, 2022 8:50 AM
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Apr 2022
48
Emmad_- said:
Underrated? Oh nah. Literally titled as The Father Of Isekais
if you actually read the whole post, you’ll understand the point I was trying to get at. Don’t post a reply to something when you didn’t even bother to read past the title
May 4, 2022 8:38 AM
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Apr 2022
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O_T_T said:
PgkMAL0215 said:
I am SO tired of hearing the one, same grievance people have with this show. (i.e. Rudy’s perverted disposition). Congratulations, you understand that the protagonist (at least at the beginning of our journey) is deeply flawed and morally reprehensible. What also drives me crazy is that they use this and extrapolate to say that the show in its entirety is bad. This is very hypocritical, however. Off the top of your head think of all the anime or shows in general with deeply sinful/morally bankrupt individuals as the protagonist. Shows like “Breaking Bad”, for example. Yet, do we hear people saying this show is terrible because of Walter White’s character flaws? No! So why, simply because of Rudeus’ specific flaw of perversion, should it be any different.


This is a perfect example of the Mushoku Tensei fanbase's only arguments in defence of their show, so I'll encourage all to listen up as I point out their issues.

Counterpoint 1 - It's not "Rudeus's perverted disposition." It's "Rudeus being an actual rapist and paedophile." This is a significant difference, trying to frame one as the other is disingenuous and shows you yourself admit his actual character is disgusting. You are not accurately reflecting the character and his actions, so your entire defence of him is rooted in a lie.
A rapist? Please, point me to where in the story Rudeus rapes someone. You're over-exaggerating the actions of a character you simply don't like. And because you don't like, that mean Rudy bad written character and MT no good show :'( (notice how I use toddler talk to reflect the inherent immaturity of your logic)

Counterpoint 2 - Moral flaws are not all equal. It's completely ridiculous to say that a rapist is equal to a drug dealer, or a murderer equal to someone who dodges taxes. Crimes do not all have the same punishment, and in the same way, characters "sinning" are not all the same. So, yes, it should "be any different."

On what authority are you to determine that all moral flaws are not the same? Because you won't be able to give a sufficient account for that, your argument falls apart. Furthermore, you do realize Walter White was a drug dealer whom ruined the relationship with his family, destroyed his life (and likely scarred the lives of his family), and died with ultimately nothing to show for it, right? And yet, we like Walter despite not liking/endorsing certain actions he takes and the direction he chooses to take his life. So then, why? Why do we like him? Because he's a well-written character with whom we can empathize/sympathize, having realistic motivations. Here's the thing: Rudy is the same! Despite his very troubling disposition towards most (not all) of the women in his life, he still has a charming, surprisingly likeable personality with a realistic depth of character (indicated by his struggles with the deep-seeded trauma and regrets of his past life) as well as having the simple, but believable motivation to start over, making the most of his fresh start in this new world (something many people could easily relate to).

Counterpoint 3 - It's not relevant whether or not other characters are getting denounced for their own moral flaws. You do not have to wait for someone to complain about another show for the same reason before you should be "allowed" to complain about that for this show. What you're really doing is just trying to shift the problem onto a different work of media, rather than actually face it honestly.

Counterpoint 4 - You're completely Straw Manning the complaint you're hearing. Rudeus having flaws is not the issue, the author framing the actions he does as a result of them as being excusable and worse, morally justified, is. This, you are completely ignoring, because there's no response you can make other than insisting that never happened in the first place, which is obviously false.

I already elucidated all this in my post, but I guess I'll have to give you some special attention to get my point across. When, in the show, is Rudeus EVER rewarded or justified specifically for his morally reprehensible behavior? Please, I would love for you to show me. Because it never occurs. In fact, on many occasions the opposite actually occurs. Simply because a show doesn't insult your intelligence by outright reprimanding a character for certain actions does not somehow equate to the story glorifying or accepting those actions as acceptable behavior. It takes time for Rudy (as would be realistic) to be shown the error of his ways, ingrained in him for over 30 years in his past life.

I stand firm in saying that Mushoku Tensei is an objectively well-made and compelling show. Here’s my diatribe:

The pacing is amazing. The world building is deeply immersive. The art
direction, backgrounds, and animation are gorgeous, consistent, and, at times,
genuinely stunning. The narrative is intriguing and plot points expertly
interwoven, balancing its light-hearted, serious, and comedic moments well. The
characters and their development are realistic and yet still entertaining and
greatly engaging. The sound design is wistful and perfectly suits the setting.


While I'm here, I'll also take the opportunity to note that this is a pretty awful attempt at praise. All you've done is list the various elements you think make up the show, and given each a positive adjective. What makes the pacing amazing? What about the world immerses you? Can you demonstrate how the art direction is done well, what is intriguing or "expertly" interwoven about the narrative, how you can claim that development is "realistic" or how sound design is supposed to be "wistful?" That last one really doesn't make sense, if anything, the sound design should vary to match the tone of each scene rather than exude one singular emotion.

This wasn't meant to be a full blown analysis of the anime, dude.... Calm down.

I would challenge anyone to find me an aspect of this show that it is not
masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention.


Challenges are supposed to be hard. We've got the way the show oscillates in and out of its attempt at a theme while the author jams in pointless indulgencies, breaking up the pace of the story and development (limited though both be). We've got the world being agonisingly shallow, relying solely on established tropes and convenient contrivances rather than having events in both the past or present logically work together to paint a genuine setting. And we've also got. I could go on, but I'm sure that's past the extent of your curiosity.

This is the most brain-dead, uninformed opinion of your entire post. The world-building and pacing is one of the most acclaimed aspects of this work of fiction by fans and non-fans alike. I'm really starting to wonder if you even watched the whole first season...

Once again, I truthfully believe the only reason this anime is not more highly rated or
appreciated by the wider anime community is simply because of Rudeus'
character flaws. However, I am convinced this is unjustified. His flaws are a necessity for displaying the grand purposes of this story which are growth, familv, and redemption.


Oh, here's another common Mushoku Tensei defence. "It's supposed to be that way." Yes, nobody is claiming otherwise, the problem is that it being "that way" is an issue for the reasons catalogued above.

Again, already in the post, so I don't why you felt the need to repeat what I already addressed.

The show certainly isn’t for everyone and it’s not entirely perfect (as there’s only so much you can adapt from the source materials), so I understand that.


And another one, "it's not for everyone." Not for those with a a taste for intelligent media, certainly, but regardless, the relevancy of this? Nothing is made for everyone, someone without an interest in fantasy, for instance, wouldn't care for this even if it were acceptable.

Oh my... I didn't realize I upset an intellectual... a Reddit mod... a Rick and Morty fan, perhaps? I apologize for not realizing who I was speaking to sooner.

And here's an interesting point, "it's not perfect," yet earlier you said "I would challenge anyone to find me an aspect of this show that it is not
masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention." Seems you've fulfilled your own challenge.

It IS masterfully done, but that doesn't make it flawless. There's no contradiction in what I said. I can only think of two, maybe three, anime with near perfect quality and execution.

But calling it an objectively bad show based off personal taste is completely unfounded.


Nobody is, see what I discussed above. And even if the complaint people had was in fact what you Straw Manned it as, that still wouldn't be "personal taste." This is a completely nonsensical claim. You've already proved my thesis by the points made earlier in your reply.

I would encourage everyone to read the LN/WN.


Why? How would that help? How is that relevant, actually? Even if he's portrayed as less of a swine in the source material, that doesn't mean his portrayal in the anime changes to match. This is just another case of trying to deflect to another piece of media.

It adds extra context and nuance to each character's motivations and inner dialogues. It's a simple concept to understand, really. I would expect a high intellect individual, such as yourself, to understand.

And the what shows does, it does incredibly well. If the quality of production keeps up, the show should only get better over time and very well could end up being one of the greatest anime of the decade if they continue to adapt it well. Thanks for coming to my Ted x Talk.


Unverifiable speculation, not even worth touching.

MAL users would disagree with you, clearly. Even though I think it could be rated higher it's still an 8.75, so even the majority of the community (whom don't like the series) can agree on its objectively great technical qualities and production ;)

My personal score for MT in terms of the MAL ranking system (as of S1 Part 2): 8.95-9.05/10

Edit: For clarification, I am not saying you have to love Mushoku Tensei nor do I think it’s a masterpiece.


What does masterpiece mean, then, in your eyes? Only claiming that every single part of the show was "masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention" should fulfil it. That's inconsistent, it seems you're now just backpedalling to save face.

The appreciation/enjoyment of art is purely subjective. That being said, I think it deserves its MAL rating and perhaps should even be a little higher imo. Furthermore, I also believe that it’s the best anime in the isekai genre (though Re:zero is a very close second).


That's just piling bad opinion onto bad opinion. I'll leave that for now, no use going on a tangent on why that too is awful.

The only point I was trying to make here is that, in my experience, many people downplay/disregard the quality of the show as a whole almost entirely because of their distaste for the main character. I despise that position because it’s entirely illogical.


Well, we've gone over how that's an inaccurate representation of the issue, so that's moot by now.

As an example, I don’t particularly like the Fate franchise nor Gintama. Despite that, I can recognize the greatness in quality of these shows and appreciate them from a distance.


You're a bit too far if you think those're great. But again, tangent.

Again, most of the community (especially on MAL) would disagree with you so I don't what you're basing that claim on.

As a final note, “over-hated” may have been a better word to use in the title of this post instead of overrated


Those are two completely opposite words. Over-hated means hated too much, overrated means rated too highly. No wonder confusion ensued.


Over-hated would have been a better word to use, I realized, because most people didn't even bother to read past the title. The reason I used the word 'overrated' was because I wasn't necessarily referring to its MAL score as most people simply presumed (again, before reading the post), but instead I was referring to its reception and lack of recognition from the wider anime community. For example, it wasn't even NOMINATED for anime of the year by Crunchyroll. Almost all anitubers/commentators, some of whom didn't particularly love MT, were shocked by it being snubbed as it should have an obvious contender.
PgkMAL0215May 4, 2022 11:42 AM
May 4, 2022 8:58 AM
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Nov 2018
227
PgkMAL0215 said:
I am SO tired of hearing the one, same grievance people have with this show. (i.e. Rudy’s perverted disposition). Congratulations, you understand that the protagonist (at least at the beginning of our journey) is deeply flawed and morally reprehensible. What also drives me crazy is that they use this and extrapolate to say that the show in its entirety is bad. This is very hypocritical, however. Off the top of your head think of all the anime or shows in general with deeply sinful/morally bankrupt individuals as the protagonist. Shows like “Breaking Bad”, for example. Yet, do we hear people saying this show is terrible because of Walter White’s character flaws? No! So why, simply because of Rudeus’ specific flaw of perversion, should it be any different. I stand firm in saying that Mushoku Tensei is an objectively well-made and compelling show. Here’s my diatribe:

The pacing is amazing. The world building is deeply immersive. The art
direction, backgrounds, and animation are gorgeous, consistent, and, at times,
genuinely stunning. The narrative is intriguing and plot points expertly
interwoven, balancing its light-hearted, serious, and comedic moments well. The
characters and their development are realistic and yet still entertaining and
greatly engaging. The sound design is wistful and perfectly suits the setting. I
would challenge anyone to find me an aspect of this show that it is not
masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention. Once again, I truthfully believe the only reason this anime is not more highly rated or
appreciated by the wider anime community is simply because of Rudeus'
character flaws. However, I am convinced this is unjustified. His flaws are a necessity for displaying the grand purposes of this story which are growth, familv, and redemption. The show certainly isn’t for everyone and it’s not entirely perfect (as there’s only so much you can adapt from the source materials), so I understand that. But calling it an objectively bad show based off personal taste is completely unfounded. I would encourage everyone to read the LN/WN. And the what shows does, it does incredibly well. If the quality of production keeps up, the show should only get better over time and very well could end up being one of the greatest anime of the decade if they continue to adapt it well. Thanks for coming to my Ted x Talk.

My personal score for MT in terms of the MAL ranking system (as of S1 Part 2): 8.95-9.05/10

Edit: For clarification, I am not saying you have to love Mushoku Tensei nor do I think it’s a masterpiece. The appreciation/enjoyment of art is purely subjective. That being said, I think it deserves its MAL rating and perhaps should even be a little higher imo. Furthermore, I also believe that it’s the best anime in the isekai genre (though Re:zero is a very close second). The only point I was trying to make here is that, in my experience, many people downplay/disregard the quality of the show as a whole almost entirely because of their distaste for the main character. I despise that position because it’s entirely illogical. As an example, I don’t particularly like the Fate franchise nor Gintama. Despite that, I can recognize the greatness in quality of these shows and appreciate them from a distance. As a final note, “over-hated” may have been a better word to use in the title of this post instead of overrated

maybe its just that not enough people have watched this series / talked about this series

but people would definitely recommend this anime, everytime you ask someone about it

except if theyre kids thats into sao lol
May 4, 2022 10:15 AM
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Dec 2021
238
I love the show and i understand that perversion is a core part of the morally wrong parts of the character but I also stand by that the show really makes it a big disgusting distracting deal when it certainly could just not do it or do it more sublty. Comes across as creepy with the "plot and narrative" supporting the mc
May 4, 2022 11:05 AM
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Apr 2022
48
KayShawn258 said:
PgkMAL0215 said:
I am SO tired of hearing the one, same grievance people have with this show. (i.e. Rudy’s perverted disposition). Congratulations, you understand that the protagonist (at least at the beginning of our journey) is deeply flawed and morally reprehensible. What also drives me crazy is that they use this and extrapolate to say that the show in its entirety is bad. This is very hypocritical, however. Off the top of your head think of all the anime or shows in general with deeply sinful/morally bankrupt individuals as the protagonist. Shows like “Breaking Bad”, for example. Yet, do we hear people saying this show is terrible because of Walter White’s character flaws? No! So why, simply because of Rudeus’ specific flaw of perversion, should it be any different. I stand firm in saying that Mushoku Tensei is an objectively well-made and compelling show. Here’s my diatribe:

The pacing is amazing. The world building is deeply immersive. The art
direction, backgrounds, and animation are gorgeous, consistent, and, at times,
genuinely stunning. The narrative is intriguing and plot points expertly
interwoven, balancing its light-hearted, serious, and comedic moments well. The
characters and their development are realistic and yet still entertaining and
greatly engaging. The sound design is wistful and perfectly suits the setting. I
would challenge anyone to find me an aspect of this show that it is not
masterfully and carefully crafted with immense detail, wit, and attention. Once again, I truthfully believe the only reason this anime is not more highly rated or
appreciated by the wider anime community is simply because of Rudeus'
character flaws. However, I am convinced this is unjustified. His flaws are a necessity for displaying the grand purposes of this story which are growth, familv, and redemption. The show certainly isn’t for everyone and it’s not entirely perfect (as there’s only so much you can adapt from the source materials), so I understand that. But calling it an objectively bad show based off personal taste is completely unfounded. I would encourage everyone to read the LN/WN. And the what shows does, it does incredibly well. If the quality of production keeps up, the show should only get better over time and very well could end up being one of the greatest anime of the decade if they continue to adapt it well. Thanks for coming to my Ted x Talk.

My personal score for MT in terms of the MAL ranking system (as of S1 Part 2): 8.95-9.05/10

Edit: For clarification, I am not saying you have to love Mushoku Tensei nor do I think it’s a masterpiece. The appreciation/enjoyment of art is purely subjective. That being said, I think it deserves its MAL rating and perhaps should even be a little higher imo. Furthermore, I also believe that it’s the best anime in the isekai genre (though Re:zero is a very close second). The only point I was trying to make here is that, in my experience, many people downplay/disregard the quality of the show as a whole almost entirely because of their distaste for the main character. I despise that position because it’s entirely illogical. As an example, I don’t particularly like the Fate franchise nor Gintama. Despite that, I can recognize the greatness in quality of these shows and appreciate them from a distance. As a final note, “over-hated” may have been a better word to use in the title of this post instead of overrated

maybe its just that not enough people have watched this series / talked about this series

but people would definitely recommend this anime, everytime you ask someone about it

except if theyre kids thats into sao lol


That's a good point. I hate to admit that when I first got into SAO at the ripe age of 14 I really liked the first part, but once I watched the second part, even with my unacquainted tastes, I could still tell it was sub-par at best. But hey, we should let the kids enjoy SAO, DBZ, or Naruto lol
May 4, 2022 11:08 AM
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Apr 2022
48
Emmad_- said:
Underrated? Oh nah. Literally titled as The Father Of Isekais


Read the whole post or don't reply
May 4, 2022 11:09 AM
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Apr 2022
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Excadus said:
MT is truly the uncrowned isekai king.
I don't know how some people find slime better than MT


Based and red-pilled. Re:zero is a close second in my books, but it has more flaws overall
May 4, 2022 12:21 PM
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Azusa_Nakano_Fan said:
saying a show is underrated and then giving it a score that closely resembles its MAL score. doesn't make sense. plus it's in the top 50 so it's no where near underrated


Read the whole post before leaving a comment
May 4, 2022 12:22 PM
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48
ScaredSilent said:
i dont wanna read that. but i'm pretty sure MT isn't underrated, in fact, i think it's fairly rated. i have a lot mutuals giving it good praise and appreciations, MT also has a lot of attention in the anime community (both the anime and LN). Soo..... i don't understand how can you call it "underrated" , this season has a 8.7+ score and i think it deserves the score and definitely lives up to the hype.


If you don't wanna actually read the post, then don't comment, you fucking idiot
May 4, 2022 12:23 PM
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Apr 2022
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BenStro said:
yeah, no. this show is neither of those two things. if you ask me, it gets worshipped by a lot of people actually. Don't get me wrong, it's a good show, and I enjoyed watching it. But I'm kind of tired of people thinking the show gets so much hate when it doesn't. it gets little hate compared to other shows.


Read the whole post before you leave a comment
May 4, 2022 2:34 PM
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PgkMAL0215 said:
ScaredSilent said:
i dont wanna read that. but i'm pretty sure MT isn't underrated, in fact, i think it's fairly rated. i have a lot mutuals giving it good praise and appreciations, MT also has a lot of attention in the anime community (both the anime and LN). Soo..... i don't understand how can you call it "underrated" , this season has a 8.7+ score and i think it deserves the score and definitely lives up to the hype.


If you don't wanna actually read the post, then don't comment, you fucking idiot


I. Don't. Fvcking. Care.
May 4, 2022 2:49 PM

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Nov 2013
2158


You write a lot for saying a bunch of nothing. "Pedo bad, show makes it look good". This is some twitter tier shit.
May 5, 2022 10:16 AM
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Apr 2022
48
DGemu said:


You write a lot for saying a bunch of nothing. "Pedo bad, show makes it look good". This is some twitter tier shit.


(Had to rewrite this post for editing purposes) Based. Since you don’t have anything to say in response, I’ll take that as my win in this argument. As a self-acclaimed intellectual, I thought you’d be capable of giving a rational, considerate response, but you continue to unjustly dismiss the show using immature, uncritical, and misguided reasoning. I’m glad to see you’re at least owning up to your unfounded logic. You’re mad that MT is an objectively great show with an MC that isn’t easy-to-project-onto, superficial, Reddit wholesome 100. Furthermore, since I hadn’t already addressed this point, Rudy for all intents and purposes is an entirely new person in this world. Yes, he has a mental age far beyond his physical age, but at the end of the day he’s a physically new person, a child. Despite his reprehensible desires, if you bothered to actually pay attention to the show, you’d realize that he has genuine relationships with the girls in his life, built on care and comradery. When I came blindly into this series, I was put off a little at first by Rudeus’ behavior. However, they established Rudy as a likable and vulnerable human being with redeeming qualities from the 2nd episode and by that point I could easily see where the story was gonna try to take his development. Arguably his worst offense of perverted conduct comes in Episode 6 when he encounters Eris sleeping in the barn. And yea, I sat there looking at my screen thinking “Rudy, no! What are you doing? Haven’t you learned anything yet?”. But then I realized something. We’re only 1.5 volumes in to a 25 volume series. This scene, though they did end up using it to some comedic and retributional effect, most importantly served as a road marker. One that tells us just how far Rudy still has to go in his maturation and development. Well-told stories rarely solves its conflicts in simple, quick-and-easy ways. And that’s another thing I really appreciate about MT. These things culminate in the latter half of episode 8 where by the end of the incident with Eris, he realizes the big mistake he’s made and abases himself for it, even ending up apologizing to Eris in the process. As I said before, the LN/WN help nuance and flesh out the interaction and Rudy’s self-abasement a bit more. You may not like this series and that’s ok. BUT don’t use “Rudy is an unredeemable pEdOpHiLe/rApIsT/pErVeRt/whatever” as your excuse or reasoning.
PgkMAL0215May 5, 2022 10:30 AM
May 7, 2022 8:51 AM

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PgkMAL0215 said:
A rapist? Please, point me to where in the story Rudeus rapes someone. You're over-exaggerating the actions of a character you simply don't like.


He assaults a sleeping child in his home, justifying this in his mind with the narrative that "It's her fault for being available to me, in my house." Nothing is being exaggerated here, it happens directly on-screen.

I'm sure your defence will be something along the lines of "but he stopped himself/but he regretted it later" or something else to that effect, but that does not take away from his actions and intentions.

I remind you that by claiming I'm "over-exaggerating" you're reinforcing my counterpoint from earlier, that your incorrectly representing him because you cannot defend his actual character.

And because you don't like, that mean Rudy bad written character and MT no good show :'( (notice how I use toddler talk to reflect the inherent immaturity of your logic)


I have already discussed how that is a Straw Man. You are again simply repeating exactly what I gave counterpoints to, as though those lines of argument have not been dealt with.

On what authority are you to determine that all moral flaws are not the same? Because you won't be able to give a sufficient account for that, your argument falls apart.


I really don't see how you can ask that with a straight face. Nevertheless, let's take desiring to steal and desiring to kill as examples. These are both moral flaws, I doubt you'll try to claim otherwise. However, killing ends a life, while stealing does not. Getting killed is a worse thing to suffer than having some possessions stolen. The former is irrecoverable from, the latter is not. Therefore, we can conclude that killing is worse than stealing. It follows that my point is correct.

I'll further point out that there's no reason why your position, that all moral flaws are the same, should be correct by default, as you seem to think it is. So, should you respond again, I'll need you to prove it, just as I just proved mine.

Furthermore, you do realize Walter White was a drug dealer whom ruined the relationship with his family, destroyed his life (and likely scarred the lives of his family), and died with ultimately nothing to show for it, right? And yet, we like Walter despite not liking/endorsing certain actions he takes and the direction he chooses to take his life. So then, why? Why do we like him? Because he's a well-written character with whom we can empathize/sympathize, having realistic motivations. Here's the thing: Rudy is the same!


First, that's incorrect. He is not well-written, he is not empathetic or sympathetic, and he is not realistic. I dealt with these claims later on, if you recall.

Second, recall my third counterpoint. Why we like Walter White, if we assume we do, is irrelevant.

Despite his very troubling disposition towards most (not all) of the women in his life, he still has a charming, surprisingly likeable personality with a realistic depth of character (indicated by his struggles with the deep-seeded trauma and regrets of his past life) as well as having the simple, but believable motivation to start over, making the most of his fresh start in this new world (something many people could easily relate to).


I'll believe you may find him charming, likeable and relatable, but that is subjective. Those are not objective strengths about his writing, they're your reception to him.

I'll also note that thinking that depth of character is "indicated" by such simple elements as you have cited is horribly naïve. I suggest you look into how character depth can be analysed before making such claims.

I already elucidated all this in my post, but I guess I'll have to give you some special attention to get my point across.


What you say immediately after this is in fact corollary (or more specifically would have been, had your view been correct) in your original post, so you never elucidated anything. Learn what the word means before using it, glancing over to a thesaurus doesn't make your position any stronger.

When, in the show, is Rudeus EVER rewarded or justified specifically for his morally reprehensible behavior? Please, I would love for you to show me. Because it never occurs. In fact, on many occasions the opposite actually occurs.


The entire show is about lauding him in deference to his actions. One of society's scum is given a second change at life in a fantastical (again, had it actually been) world, surrounded by all the woman and notoriety he desires.

Simply because a show doesn't insult your intelligence by outright reprimanding a character for certain actions does not somehow equate to the story glorifying or accepting those actions as acceptable behavior.


I don't think you know what reprimanding means, because that's exactly what it equates to. Look in a dictionary, seriously. Not facing comeuppance for heinous acts is exactly what glorifying it in media is. You are at this point totally lying about the content of the story, exactly as I mentioned you would.

It takes time for Rudy (as would be realistic) to be shown the error of his ways, ingrained in him for over 30 years in his past life.


And if it took that long for him to narrative to demonstrate that he was wrong, then you'd have a point, but it doesn't, so you don't. Your entire argument here is he stopped raping folk after a certain point, therefore he never did in the first place. That's nonsensical.

This wasn't meant to be a full blown analysis of the anime, dude.... Calm down.


It's not relevant what it was meant to be, my point stands. Your current praise doesn't legitimately say anything about the show.

This is the most brain-dead, uninformed opinion of your entire post. The world-building and pacing is one of the most acclaimed aspects of this work of fiction by fans and non-fans alike. I'm really starting to wonder if you even watched the whole first season...


And what part of that is meant to be a counterargument? All you're doing is insulting me and citing the popular opinion as though that's relevant. If I'm wrong, show how I am.

Again, already in the post, so I don't why you felt the need to repeat what I already addressed.


The specific claim of it being an intentional decision, and that equating to it being a positive one, was not.

Oh my... I didn't realize I upset an intellectual... a Reddit mod... a Rick and Morty fan, perhaps? I apologize for not realizing who I was speaking to sooner.


Once again, an insult, but not a counterargument.

It IS masterfully done, but that doesn't make it flawless. There's no contradiction in what I said. I can only think of two, maybe three, anime with near perfect quality and execution.


What is a "flawless" show if not one done masterfully (apparently) in all areas? Clearly you're working on some bizarre personal misunderstanding of what "flawless" means, it would help if you defined what you think it refers to.

You've already proved my thesis by the points made earlier in your reply.


This is an easy one, I just need a single word in response: How? Your entire defence of my points was asking me to specify when the events I'm discussing occurred, which I easily did, and repeating exactly the same errors I noted you'd made once again.

It adds extra context and nuance to each character's motivations and inner dialogues. It's a simple concept to understand, really. I would expect a high intellect individual, such as yourself, to understand.


Clearly you haven't read what I've written, since you're not arguing against it. I shall repeat myself: even if he's portrayed as less of a swine in the source material, that doesn't mean his portrayal in the anime changes to match. If you watch the show, then need to read the book to get a proper look at the character, that's not "added" content, that's an insufficient adaptation.

MAL users would disagree with you, clearly. Even though I think it could be rated higher it's still an 8.75, so even the majority of the community (whom don't like the series) can agree on its objectively great technical qualities and production ;)


Oh no, the majority of the community(!) Whatever will I do in the face of them? It's not as though assuming the majority is automatically correct is an obvious and infamous logical fallacy...

Ad Populum. Get a real opinion instead of copying the average one.

Again, most of the community (especially on MAL) would disagree with you so I don't what you're basing that claim on.


I'm basing that on actually knowing about those franchises. As opposed to something ridiculous like "well the community gives it good ratings hurr durr."

Over-hated would have been a better word to use, I realized, because most people didn't even bother to read past the title. The reason I used the word 'overrated' was because I wasn't necessarily referring to its MAL score as most people simply presumed (again, before reading the post), but instead I was referring to its reception and lack of recognition from the wider anime community. For example, it wasn't even NOMINATED for anime of the year by Crunchyroll. Almost all anitubers/commentators, some of whom didn't particularly love MT, were shocked by it being snubbed as it should have an obvious contender.


Completely missing the content of what I pointed out. The two words have opposite meanings.

(I'm going to assume this next bit is targeted at me, though you failed to properly format it)

(Had to rewrite this post for editing purposes) Based. Since you don’t have anything to say in response, I’ll take that as my win in this argument.


Kid, you are grossly overestimating the amount of attention you deserve. I wasn't even on MAL till now, but I guess you preferred spinning yet another false narrative to checking.

As a self-acclaimed intellectual, I thought you’d be capable of giving a rational, considerate response, but you continue to unjustly dismiss the show using immature, uncritical, and misguided reasoning.


You have not successfully shown my reasoning is any of that. Do so now if you can.

I’m glad to see you’re at least owning up to your unfounded logic.


Even if your fantasy of me not being here was true, how the fuck would I be "owning up" by doing so? That's beyond deluded.

You’re mad that MT is an objectively great show with an MC that isn’t easy-to-project-onto, superficial, Reddit wholesome 100.


This is the same Straw Man I pointed out before, which you haven't yet refuted.

Furthermore, since I hadn’t already addressed this point, Rudy for all intents and purposes is an entirely new person in this world. Yes, he has a mental age far beyond his physical age, but at the end of the day he’s a physically new person, a child.


The entire point of the show is that he's a reincarnated 30-something. If he was "for all intents and purposes a child," then he'd just be a child, born for the first time in this world. You are once more misrepresenting him to suit your fantasy.

Despite his reprehensible desires, if you bothered to actually pay attention to the show, you’d realize that he has genuine relationships with the girls in his life, built on care and comradery.


"It's not paedophilia if it's love," is what I'm hearing you say. Whether they really like him or not is not what's being discussed here.

When I came blindly into this series, I was put off a little at first by Rudeus’ behavior. However, they established Rudy as a likable and vulnerable human being with redeeming qualities from the 2nd episode and by that point I could easily see where the story was gonna try to take his development. Arguably his worst offense of perverted conduct comes in Episode 6 when he encounters Eris sleeping in the barn. And yea, I sat there looking at my screen thinking “Rudy, no! What are you doing? Haven’t you learned anything yet?”. But then I realized something. We’re only 1.5 volumes in to a 25 volume series. This scene, though they did end up using it to some comedic and retributional effect, most importantly served as a road marker. One that tells us just how far Rudy still has to go in his maturation and development.


Your personal expectations and emotions are irrelevant. You wanted this to be an objective discussion, and what you've said here is textbook subjectivity.

Well-told stories rarely solves its conflicts in simple, quick-and-easy ways.


This again shows a lack of understanding when it comes to storytelling. How quickly conflicts are resolved has nothing to do with the quality of writing, many works instead use the model of having multiple conflicts that are each individually solved quickly, but flow logically from each other. At any rate, how quickly conflicts get solved is not relevant here, since him being a paedophile isn't a conflict and doesn't get solved at all.

And that’s another thing I really appreciate about MT. These things culminate in the latter half of episode 8 where by the end of the incident with Eris, he realizes the big mistake he’s made and abases himself for it, even ending up apologizing to Eris in the process.


Subjective, again. What you like doesn't change the content, and we're discussing that content.

As I said before, the LN/WN help nuance and flesh out the interaction and Rudy’s self-abasement a bit more.


Again, it may well do all that in the Light Novel, but it's irrelevant to the anime, and him being sorry about it doesn't mean the story doesn't glorify it, nor that he didn't do it to begin with.

You may not like this series and that’s ok. BUT don’t use “Rudy is an unredeemable pEdOpHiLe/rApIsT/pErVeRt/whatever” as your excuse or reasoning.


The entire first section of my first post was discussing how that isn't mine or anyone else's actual point.

DGemu said:


You write a lot for saying a bunch of nothing. "Pedo bad, show makes it look good". This is some twitter tier shit.


You have not presented any counterarguments to what I said. All you're expressing is that you disagree, not that my position is incorrect.

If you have actual arguments to make in favour of the show, you're free to present them, but simply repeating the cliché "oh you say a lot but say nothing" and "oh this is twitter" lines are not sufficient.
Well I for one already loved Lain.
May 7, 2022 10:49 AM
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Apr 2022
48
O_T_T said:
PgkMAL0215 said:
A rapist? Please, point me to where in the story Rudeus rapes someone. You're over-exaggerating the actions of a character you simply don't like.


He assaults a sleeping child in his home, justifying this in his mind with the narrative that "It's her fault for being available to me, in my house." Nothing is being exaggerated here, it happens directly on-screen.

I'm sure your defence will be something along the lines of "but he stopped himself/but he regretted it later" or something else to that effect, but that does not take away from his actions and intentions.

I remind you that by claiming I'm "over-exaggerating" you're reinforcing my counterpoint from earlier, that your incorrectly representing him because you cannot defend his actual character.

And because you don't like, that mean Rudy bad written character and MT no good show :'( (notice how I use toddler talk to reflect the inherent immaturity of your logic)


I have already discussed how that is a Straw Man. You are again simply repeating exactly what I gave counterpoints to, as though those lines of argument have not been dealt with.

On what authority are you to determine that all moral flaws are not the same? Because you won't be able to give a sufficient account for that, your argument falls apart.


I really don't see how you can ask that with a straight face. Nevertheless, let's take desiring to steal and desiring to kill as examples. These are both moral flaws, I doubt you'll try to claim otherwise. However, killing ends a life, while stealing does not. Getting killed is a worse thing to suffer than having some possessions stolen. The former is irrecoverable from, the latter is not. Therefore, we can conclude that killing is worse than stealing. It follows that my point is correct.

I'll further point out that there's no reason why your position, that all moral flaws are the same, should be correct by default, as you seem to think it is. So, should you respond again, I'll need you to prove it, just as I just proved mine.

Furthermore, you do realize Walter White was a drug dealer whom ruined the relationship with his family, destroyed his life (and likely scarred the lives of his family), and died with ultimately nothing to show for it, right? And yet, we like Walter despite not liking/endorsing certain actions he takes and the direction he chooses to take his life. So then, why? Why do we like him? Because he's a well-written character with whom we can empathize/sympathize, having realistic motivations. Here's the thing: Rudy is the same!


First, that's incorrect. He is not well-written, he is not empathetic or sympathetic, and he is not realistic. I dealt with these claims later on, if you recall.

Second, recall my third counterpoint. Why we like Walter White, if we assume we do, is irrelevant.

Despite his very troubling disposition towards most (not all) of the women in his life, he still has a charming, surprisingly likeable personality with a realistic depth of character (indicated by his struggles with the deep-seeded trauma and regrets of his past life) as well as having the simple, but believable motivation to start over, making the most of his fresh start in this new world (something many people could easily relate to).


I'll believe you may find him charming, likeable and relatable, but that is subjective. Those are not objective strengths about his writing, they're your reception to him.

I'll also note that thinking that depth of character is "indicated" by such simple elements as you have cited is horribly naïve. I suggest you look into how character depth can be analysed before making such claims.

I already elucidated all this in my post, but I guess I'll have to give you some special attention to get my point across.


What you say immediately after this is in fact corollary (or more specifically would have been, had your view been correct) in your original post, so you never elucidated anything. Learn what the word means before using it, glancing over to a thesaurus doesn't make your position any stronger.

When, in the show, is Rudeus EVER rewarded or justified specifically for his morally reprehensible behavior? Please, I would love for you to show me. Because it never occurs. In fact, on many occasions the opposite actually occurs.


The entire show is about lauding him in deference to his actions. One of society's scum is given a second change at life in a fantastical (again, had it actually been) world, surrounded by all the woman and notoriety he desires.

Simply because a show doesn't insult your intelligence by outright reprimanding a character for certain actions does not somehow equate to the story glorifying or accepting those actions as acceptable behavior.


I don't think you know what reprimanding means, because that's exactly what it equates to. Look in a dictionary, seriously. Not facing comeuppance for heinous acts is exactly what glorifying it in media is. You are at this point totally lying about the content of the story, exactly as I mentioned you would.

It takes time for Rudy (as would be realistic) to be shown the error of his ways, ingrained in him for over 30 years in his past life.


And if it took that long for him to narrative to demonstrate that he was wrong, then you'd have a point, but it doesn't, so you don't. Your entire argument here is he stopped raping folk after a certain point, therefore he never did in the first place. That's nonsensical.

This wasn't meant to be a full blown analysis of the anime, dude.... Calm down.


It's not relevant what it was meant to be, my point stands. Your current praise doesn't legitimately say anything about the show.

This is the most brain-dead, uninformed opinion of your entire post. The world-building and pacing is one of the most acclaimed aspects of this work of fiction by fans and non-fans alike. I'm really starting to wonder if you even watched the whole first season...


And what part of that is meant to be a counterargument? All you're doing is insulting me and citing the popular opinion as though that's relevant. If I'm wrong, show how I am.

Again, already in the post, so I don't why you felt the need to repeat what I already addressed.


The specific claim of it being an intentional decision, and that equating to it being a positive one, was not.

Oh my... I didn't realize I upset an intellectual... a Reddit mod... a Rick and Morty fan, perhaps? I apologize for not realizing who I was speaking to sooner.


Once again, an insult, but not a counterargument.

It IS masterfully done, but that doesn't make it flawless. There's no contradiction in what I said. I can only think of two, maybe three, anime with near perfect quality and execution.


What is a "flawless" show if not one done masterfully (apparently) in all areas? Clearly you're working on some bizarre personal misunderstanding of what "flawless" means, it would help if you defined what you think it refers to.

You've already proved my thesis by the points made earlier in your reply.


This is an easy one, I just need a single word in response: How? Your entire defence of my points was asking me to specify when the events I'm discussing occurred, which I easily did, and repeating exactly the same errors I noted you'd made once again.

It adds extra context and nuance to each character's motivations and inner dialogues. It's a simple concept to understand, really. I would expect a high intellect individual, such as yourself, to understand.


Clearly you haven't read what I've written, since you're not arguing against it. I shall repeat myself: even if he's portrayed as less of a swine in the source material, that doesn't mean his portrayal in the anime changes to match. If you watch the show, then need to read the book to get a proper look at the character, that's not "added" content, that's an insufficient adaptation.

MAL users would disagree with you, clearly. Even though I think it could be rated higher it's still an 8.75, so even the majority of the community (whom don't like the series) can agree on its objectively great technical qualities and production ;)


Oh no, the majority of the community(!) Whatever will I do in the face of them? It's not as though assuming the majority is automatically correct is an obvious and infamous logical fallacy...

Ad Populum. Get a real opinion instead of copying the average one.

Again, most of the community (especially on MAL) would disagree with you so I don't what you're basing that claim on.


I'm basing that on actually knowing about those franchises. As opposed to something ridiculous like "well the community gives it good ratings hurr durr."

Over-hated would have been a better word to use, I realized, because most people didn't even bother to read past the title. The reason I used the word 'overrated' was because I wasn't necessarily referring to its MAL score as most people simply presumed (again, before reading the post), but instead I was referring to its reception and lack of recognition from the wider anime community. For example, it wasn't even NOMINATED for anime of the year by Crunchyroll. Almost all anitubers/commentators, some of whom didn't particularly love MT, were shocked by it being snubbed as it should have an obvious contender.


Completely missing the content of what I pointed out. The two words have opposite meanings.

(I'm going to assume this next bit is targeted at me, though you failed to properly format it)

(Had to rewrite this post for editing purposes) Based. Since you don’t have anything to say in response, I’ll take that as my win in this argument.


Kid, you are grossly overestimating the amount of attention you deserve. I wasn't even on MAL till now, but I guess you preferred spinning yet another false narrative to checking.

As a self-acclaimed intellectual, I thought you’d be capable of giving a rational, considerate response, but you continue to unjustly dismiss the show using immature, uncritical, and misguided reasoning.


You have not successfully shown my reasoning is any of that. Do so now if you can.

I’m glad to see you’re at least owning up to your unfounded logic.


Even if your fantasy of me not being here was true, how the fuck would I be "owning up" by doing so? That's beyond deluded.

You’re mad that MT is an objectively great show with an MC that isn’t easy-to-project-onto, superficial, Reddit wholesome 100.


This is the same Straw Man I pointed out before, which you haven't yet refuted.

Furthermore, since I hadn’t already addressed this point, Rudy for all intents and purposes is an entirely new person in this world. Yes, he has a mental age far beyond his physical age, but at the end of the day he’s a physically new person, a child.


The entire point of the show is that he's a reincarnated 30-something. If he was "for all intents and purposes a child," then he'd just be a child, born for the first time in this world. You are once more misrepresenting him to suit your fantasy.

Despite his reprehensible desires, if you bothered to actually pay attention to the show, you’d realize that he has genuine relationships with the girls in his life, built on care and comradery.


"It's not paedophilia if it's love," is what I'm hearing you say. Whether they really like him or not is not what's being discussed here.

When I came blindly into this series, I was put off a little at first by Rudeus’ behavior. However, they established Rudy as a likable and vulnerable human being with redeeming qualities from the 2nd episode and by that point I could easily see where the story was gonna try to take his development. Arguably his worst offense of perverted conduct comes in Episode 6 when he encounters Eris sleeping in the barn. And yea, I sat there looking at my screen thinking “Rudy, no! What are you doing? Haven’t you learned anything yet?”. But then I realized something. We’re only 1.5 volumes in to a 25 volume series. This scene, though they did end up using it to some comedic and retributional effect, most importantly served as a road marker. One that tells us just how far Rudy still has to go in his maturation and development.


Your personal expectations and emotions are irrelevant. You wanted this to be an objective discussion, and what you've said here is textbook subjectivity.

Well-told stories rarely solves its conflicts in simple, quick-and-easy ways.


This again shows a lack of understanding when it comes to storytelling. How quickly conflicts are resolved has nothing to do with the quality of writing, many works instead use the model of having multiple conflicts that are each individually solved quickly, but flow logically from each other. At any rate, how quickly conflicts get solved is not relevant here, since him being a paedophile isn't a conflict and doesn't get solved at all.

And that’s another thing I really appreciate about MT. These things culminate in the latter half of episode 8 where by the end of the incident with Eris, he realizes the big mistake he’s made and abases himself for it, even ending up apologizing to Eris in the process.


Subjective, again. What you like doesn't change the content, and we're discussing that content.

As I said before, the LN/WN help nuance and flesh out the interaction and Rudy’s self-abasement a bit more.


Again, it may well do all that in the Light Novel, but it's irrelevant to the anime, and him being sorry about it doesn't mean the story doesn't glorify it, nor that he didn't do it to begin with.

You may not like this series and that’s ok. BUT don’t use “Rudy is an unredeemable pEdOpHiLe/rApIsT/pErVeRt/whatever” as your excuse or reasoning.


The entire first section of my first post was discussing how that isn't mine or anyone else's actual point.

DGemu said:


You write a lot for saying a bunch of nothing. "Pedo bad, show makes it look good". This is some twitter tier shit.


You have not presented any counterarguments to what I said. All you're expressing is that you disagree, not that my position is incorrect.

If you have actual arguments to make in favour of the show, you're free to present them, but simply repeating the cliché "oh you say a lot but say nothing" and "oh this is twitter" lines are not sufficient.
[quote=O_T_T message=66326762]
PgkMAL0215 said:
A rapist? Please, point me to where in the story Rudeus rapes someone. You're over-exaggerating the actions of a character you simply don't like.


He assaults a sleeping child in his home, justifying this in his mind with the narrative that "It's her fault for being available to me, in my house." Nothing is being exaggerated here, it happens directly on-screen.

I'm sure your defence will be something along the lines of "but he stopped himself/but he regretted it later" or something else to that effect, but that does not take away from his actions and intentions.

I remind you that by claiming I'm "over-exaggerating" you're reinforcing my counterpoint from earlier, that your incorrectly representing him because you cannot defend his actual character.

And because you don't like, that mean Rudy bad written character and MT no good show :'( (notice how I use toddler talk to reflect the inherent immaturity of your logic)


I have already discussed how that is a Straw Man. You are again simply repeating exactly what I gave counterpoints to, as though those lines of argument have not been dealt with.

On what authority are you to determine that all moral flaws are not the same? Because you won't be able to give a sufficient account for that, your argument falls apart.


I really don't see how you can ask that with a straight face. Nevertheless, let's take desiring to steal and desiring to kill as examples. These are both moral flaws, I doubt you'll try to claim otherwise. However, killing ends a life, while stealing does not. Getting killed is a worse thing to suffer than having some possessions stolen. The former is irrecoverable from, the latter is not. Therefore, we can conclude that killing is worse than stealing. It follows that my point is correct.

I'll further point out that there's no reason why your position, that all moral flaws are the same, should be correct by default, as you seem to think it is. So, should you respond again, I'll need you to prove it, just as I just proved mine.

Furthermore, you do realize Walter White was a drug dealer whom ruined the relationship with his family, destroyed his life (and likely scarred the lives of his family), and died with ultimately nothing to show for it, right? And yet, we like Walter despite not liking/endorsing certain actions he takes and the direction he chooses to take his life. So then, why? Why do we like him? Because he's a well-written character with whom we can empathize/sympathize, having realistic motivations. Here's the thing: Rudy is the same!


First, that's incorrect. He is not well-written, he is not empathetic or sympathetic, and he is not realistic. I dealt with these claims later on, if you recall.

Second, recall my third counterpoint. Why we like Walter White, if we assume we do, is irrelevant.

Despite his very troubling disposition towards most (not all) of the women in his life, he still has a charming, surprisingly likeable personality with a realistic depth of character (indicated by his struggles with the deep-seeded trauma and regrets of his past life) as well as having the simple, but believable motivation to start over, making the most of his fresh start in this new world (something many people could easily relate to).


I'll believe you may find him charming, likeable and relatable, but that is subjective. Those are not objective strengths about his writing, they're your reception to him.

I'll also note that thinking that depth of character is "indicated" by such simple elements as you have cited is horribly naïve. I suggest you look into how character depth can be analysed before making such claims.

I already elucidated all this in my post, but I guess I'll have to give you some special attention to get my point across.


What you say immediately after this is in fact corollary (or more specifically would have been, had your view been correct) in your original post, so you never elucidated anything. Learn what the word means before using it, glancing over to a thesaurus doesn't make your position any stronger.

When, in the show, is Rudeus EVER rewarded or justified specifically for his morally reprehensible behavior? Please, I would love for you to show me. Because it never occurs. In fact, on many occasions the opposite actually occurs.


The entire show is about lauding him in deference to his actions. One of society's scum is given a second change at life in a fantastical (again, had it actually been) world, surrounded by all the woman and notoriety he desires.

Simply because a show doesn't insult your intelligence by outright reprimanding a character for certain actions does not somehow equate to the story glorifying or accepting those actions as acceptable behavior.


I don't think you know what reprimanding means, because that's exactly what it equates to. Look in a dictionary, seriously. Not facing comeuppance for heinous acts is exactly what glorifying it in media is. You are at this point totally lying about the content of the story, exactly as I mentioned you would.

It takes time for Rudy (as would be realistic) to be shown the error of his ways, ingrained in him for over 30 years in his past life.


And if it took that long for him to narrative to demonstrate that he was wrong, then you'd have a point, but it doesn't, so you don't. Your entire argument here is he stopped raping folk after a certain point, therefore he never did in the first place. That's nonsensical.

This wasn't meant to be a full blown analysis of the anime, dude.... Calm down.


It's not relevant what it was meant to be, my point stands. Your current praise doesn't legitimately say anything about the show.

This is the most brain-dead, uninformed opinion of your entire post. The world-building and pacing is one of the most acclaimed aspects of this work of fiction by fans and non-fans alike. I'm really starting to wonder if you even watched the whole first season...


And what part of that is meant to be a counterargument? All you're doing is insulting me and citing the popular opinion as though that's relevant. If I'm wrong, show how I am.

Again, already in the post, so I don't why you felt the need to repeat what I already addressed.


The specific claim of it being an intentional decision, and that equating to it being a positive one, was not.

Oh my... I didn't realize I upset an intellectual... a Reddit mod... a Rick and Morty fan, perhaps? I apologize for not realizing who I was speaking to sooner.


Once again, an insult, but not a counterargument.

It IS masterfully done, but that doesn't make it flawless. There's no contradiction in what I said. I can only think of two, maybe three, anime with near perfect quality and execution.


What is a "flawless" show if not one done masterfully (apparently) in all areas? Clearly you're working on some bizarre personal misunderstanding of what "flawless" means, it would help if you defined what you think it refers to.

You've already proved my thesis by the points made earlier in your reply.


This is an easy one, I just need a single word in response: How? Your entire defence of my points was asking me to specify when the events I'm discussing occurred, which I easily did, and repeating exactly the same errors I noted you'd made once again.

It adds extra context and nuance to each character's motivations and inner dialogues. It's a simple concept to understand, really. I would expect a high intellect individual, such as yourself, to understand.


Clearly you haven't read what I've written, since you're not arguing against it. I shall repeat myself: even if he's portrayed as less of a swine in the source material, that doesn't mean his portrayal in the anime changes to match. If you watch the show, then need to read the book to get a proper look at the character, that's not "added" content, that's an insufficient adaptation.

MAL users would disagree with you, clearly. Even though I think it could be rated higher it's still an 8.75, so even the majority of the community (whom don't like the series) can agree on its objectively great technical qualities and production ;)


Oh no, the majority of the community(!) Whatever will I do in the face of them? It's not as though assuming the majority is automatically correct is an obvious and infamous logical fallacy...

Ad Populum. Get a real opinion instead of copying the average one.

Again, most of the community (especially on MAL) would disagree with you so I don't what you're basing that claim on.


I'm basing that on actually knowing about those franchises. As opposed to something ridiculous like "well the community gives it good ratings hurr durr."

Over-hated would have been a better word to use, I realized, because most people didn't even bother to read past the title. The reason I used the word 'overrated' was because I wasn't necessarily referring to its MAL score as most people simply presumed (again, before reading the post), but instead I was referring to its reception and lack of recognition from the wider anime community. For example, it wasn't even NOMINATED for anime of the year by Crunchyroll. Almost all anitubers/commentators, some of whom didn't particularly love MT, were shocked by it being snubbed as it should have an obvious contender.


Completely missing the content of what I pointed out. The two words have opposite meanings.

(I'm going to assume this next bit is targeted at me, though you failed to properly format it)

(Had to rewrite this post for editing purposes) Based. Since you don’t have anything to say in response, I’ll take that as my win in this argument.


Kid, you are grossly overestimating the amount of attention you deserve. I wasn't even on MAL till now, but I guess you preferred spinning yet another false narrative to checking.

As a self-acclaimed intellectual, I thought you’d be capable of giving a rational, considerate response, but you continue to unjustly dismiss the show using immature, uncritical, and misguided reasoning.


You have not successfully shown my reasoning is any of that. Do so now if you can.

I’m glad to see you’re at least owning up to your unfounded logic.


Even if your fantasy of me not being here was true, how the fuck would I be "owning up" by doing so? That's beyond deluded.

You’re mad that MT is an objectively great show with an MC that isn’t easy-to-project-onto, superficial, Reddit wholesome 100.


This is the same Straw Man I pointed out before, which you haven't yet refuted.

Furthermore, since I hadn’t already addressed this point, Rudy for all intents and purposes is an entirely new person in this world. Yes, he has a mental age far beyond his physical age, but at the end of the day he’s a physically new person, a child.


The entire point of the show is that he's a reincarnated 30-something. If he was "for all intents and purposes a child," then he'd just be a child, born for the first time in this world. You are once more misrepresenting him to suit your fantasy.

Despite his reprehensible desires, if you bothered to actually pay attention to the show, you’d realize that he has genuine relationships with the girls in his life, built on care and comradery.


"It's not paedophilia if it's love," is what I'm hearing you say. Whether they really like him or not is not what's being discussed here.

When I came blindly into this series, I was put off a little at first by Rudeus’ behavior. However, they established Rudy as a likable and vulnerable human being with redeeming qualities from the 2nd episode and by that point I could easily see where the story was gonna try to take his development. Arguably his worst offense of perverted conduct comes in Episode 6 when he encounters Eris sleeping in the barn. And yea, I sat there looking at my screen thinking “Rudy, no! What are you doing? Haven’t you learned anything yet?”. But then I realized something. We’re only 1.5 volumes in to a 25 volume series. This scene, though they did end up using it to some comedic and retributional effect, most importantly served as a road marker. One that tells us just how far Rudy still has to go in his maturation and development.


Your personal expectations and emotions are irrelevant. You wanted this to be an objective discussion, and what you've said here is textbook subjectivity.

Well-told stories rarely solves its conflicts in simple, quick-and-easy ways.


This again shows a lack of understanding when it comes to storytelling. How quickly conflicts are resolved has nothing to do with the quality of writing, many works instead use the model of having multiple conflicts that are each individually solved quickly, but flow logically from each other. At any rate, how quickly conflicts get solved is not relevant here, since him being a paedophile isn't a conflict and doesn't get solved at all.

And that’s another thing I really appreciate about MT. These things culminate in the latter half of episode 8 where by the end of the incident with Eris, he realizes the big mistake he’s made and abases himself for it, even ending up apologizing to Eris in the process.


Subjective, again. What you like doesn't change the content, and we're discussing that content.

As I said before, the LN/WN help nuance and flesh out the interaction and Rudy’s self-abasement a bit more.


Again, it may well do all that in the Light Novel, but it's irrelevant to the anime, and him being sorry about it doesn't mean the story doesn't glorify it, nor that he didn't do it to begin with.

You may not like this series and that’s ok. BUT don’t use “Rudy is an unredeemable pEdOpHiLe/rApIsT/pErVeRt/whatever” as your excuse or reasoning.


The entire first section of my first post was discussing how that isn't mine or anyone else's actual point.

I’ve come to the realization that I can’t have any sort of meaningful/constructive dialogue with you since you’re so blinded by your illogical hatred for Rudeus and MT, so this will likely be my last post addressing you. Albeit, I’d like to think you have the right intentions behind it, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s based on your misrepresentation of Rudeus’ character and a really poor grasp on what the story is trying to achieve. Morally speaking, I understand where you’re coming from, but I still think you’re wrong in your reasoning. At this point, we’re just going in circles because neither of us want to concede that we’re wrong. I’ll leave you with this. It’s some videos detailing some of the things I’ve discussed here, so I think it might help you understand my side of the argument. Btw these aren’t some hyper-analytical, unbiased videos so don’t go into it expecting that: https://youtu.be/I4QOX79k9pA
https://youtu.be/Mr_khwOmTuQ
https://youtu.be/g9qp6l9Dm60
PgkMAL0215May 7, 2022 11:02 AM
May 9, 2022 6:24 AM
Offline
Oct 2011
389
It's quite underrated but once it gets a full adaption(screencap my post and look at it after a few years if it doesn't get it proceed to laugh at me) MT will get fully appreciated especially if future seasons reach turning point 4, Begarit/Paul stuff, Millis arc and so on.
May 11, 2022 1:34 AM

Offline
Feb 2019
2410
PgkMAL0215 said:
I’ve come to the realization that I can’t have any sort of meaningful/constructive dialogue with you since you’re so blinded by your illogical hatred for Rudeus and MT, so this will likely be my last post addressing you.


I have already explained the issue with Rudeus's portrayal extensively. If it is illogical, you need to point out where my logic fails me. You have not done this, so your claim here is another lie.

Albeit, I’d like to think you have the right intentions behind it, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s based on your misrepresentation of Rudeus’ character and a really poor grasp on what the story is trying to achieve.


I have already spoken about how the story is precisely the problem. You are again pretending your fantasy is true without demonstrating how.

Morally speaking, I understand where you’re coming from, but I still think you’re wrong in your reasoning.


Then demonstrate how. It appears you cannot, as I've presented an airtight case and your only response is "well I still think you're wrong" without elaboration.

At this point, we’re just going in circles because neither of us want to concede that we’re wrong.


You seem to have the wrong impression about how this discussion works. Neither of us is expected to actively admit the other is correct. I because you aren't, and you out of indignation, though I digress. But one accepting the other's view is not what signifies the other being right. Demonstrating their position in a logical manner (as yours truly has done, of course) is.

I’ll leave you with this. It’s some videos detailing some of the things I’ve discussed here, so I think it might help you understand my side of the argument. Btw these aren’t some hyper-analytical, unbiased videos so don’t go into it expecting that: https://youtu.be/I4QOX79k9pA
https://youtu.be/Mr_khwOmTuQ
https://youtu.be/g9qp6l9Dm60


I'm not going to look at those. This is, by your own request, supposed to discuss the matter objectively, so biased videos are unnecessary. And of course this is yet another example of trying to deflect the argument elsewhere.

If you decide to return to this conversation, being by actually trying to reference and counter the points I made in my last comment.
Well I for one already loved Lain.
May 25, 2022 10:15 AM
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Thread locked

Anime Discussion Rules: 5. Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc.


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