| As I am reading more, I start to notice more and more inconsistencies, rewrites, cuts, and made-up content. Anime doesn't seem to be following LN particularly well. Some examples from season one (spoilers, obviously): When Rudeus (involunterily) leaves the village: |
White_SpiritDec 5, 2021 5:10 AM
| I understand what you mean but it’s pretty hive-minded to say it’s not a good adaptation for that reason. The anime can take creative liberties and make changes from the source material if it wants to. This is nothing new in the world of adapting. Many adaptations have made changes and are still highly regarded. |
SamXHat said: I understand what you mean but it’s pretty hive-minded to say it’s not a good adaptation for that reason. The anime can take creative liberties and make changes from the source material if it wants to. This is nothing new in the world of adapting. Many adaptations have made changes and are still highly regarded. Good adaptation does not equal good anime, and vice versa. It can still be a good anime and a medicorce/bad adaptation. If you never read the source material, or do not care about the adaptation accuracy, obvioulsy you won't be bothered by any of this. ANother case of this I can list is Majo no Tabitabi / Wandering Witch - I found it a decent anime after watching, but apparently its a terrible adaptation, with MCs personality changed in a major way, and in the last episode a crucial bit of content needed to understand about what was going on was cut entirely. |
White_SpiritDec 5, 2021 5:09 AM
| I would say things are cut that are not plot critical as to fit it all in for the time limit for each episode and episode limit of the season. They will want to end the season on something interesting where if they adapted everything it could end in the middle of an arc. The scenes that needed to be cut would require a change in the anime for it to make sense, which is what happened. |
White_Spirit said: SamXHat said: I understand what you mean but it’s pretty hive-minded to say it’s not a good adaptation for that reason. The anime can take creative liberties and make changes from the source material if it wants to. This is nothing new in the world of adapting. Many adaptations have made changes and are still highly regarded. Good adaptation does not equal good anime. It can still be a good anime and a medicorce/bad adaptation. If you never read the source material, or do not care about the adaptation accuracy, obvioulsy you won't be bothered by any of this. ANother case of this I can list is Majo no Tabitabi / Wandering Witch - I found it a decent anime after watching, but apparently its a terrible adaptation, with MCs character changed in a major way, and in one episode a crucial bit of content needed to understand about what was going on was cut entirely. What…? I’m just saying an adaptation can still be good if it makes changes or adds scenes that weren’t present in the source material. It doesn’t need to follow it 1:1. I’ve not read the source material so I have a pretty reductionist view on this lmao. Cut content is different as it can potentially leave out important details. Anime original scenes are fine for me personally. I was mainly focusing on what you said about Eris’ 10th birthday. |
SamXHatDec 5, 2021 5:15 AM
dabdabgoose said: I would say things are cut that are not plot critical as to fit it all in for the time limit for each episode and episode limit of the season. They will want to end the season on something interesting where if they adapted everything it could end in the middle of an arc. The scenes that needed to be cut would require a change in the anime for it to make sense, which is what happened. Well this will happen with all adaptations which are time-constrained. However, that doesn't explain where a scene is rewritten entirely, like 1st example in my first post. It isn't being cut entirely, its not becomeing any shorter, and there wasn't any reason to change it. adaptation can still be good if it makes changes or adds scenes that weren’t present in the source material. It doesn’t need to follow it 1:1. Then its a bad adaptation if it doesn't follow the source material and makes stuff up |
White_SpiritDec 5, 2021 5:19 AM
White_Spirit said: Not exactly, because the anime is more Focused on Rudeus POV then giving others like in the LN they likely saw it as better to introduce Ghisliane before the fight to show that they knew each other so they can justify further pov skips.dabdabgoose said: I would say things are cut that are not plot critical as to fit it all in for the time limit for each episode and episode limit of the season. They will want to end the season on something interesting where if they adapted everything it could end in the middle of an arc. The scenes that needed to be cut would require a change in the anime for it to make sense, which is what happened. Well this will happen with all adaptations which are time-constrained. However, that doesn't explain where a scene is rewritten entirely, like 1st example in my first post. It isn't being cut entirely, its not becomeing any shorter, and there wasn't any reason to change it. Seasonal shows don't have the luxury of a weekly show such as One piece or black clover for example, it's not possible for a 1 to 1 adaption unless the pace is slowed to a snail but then your asking for years of seasons which may never get adapted. It's not a 1 to 1 adaption but it is using the LN as it's source, if they are forced to cut POVs to give context they will also be forced to make some anime original content for it to make sense. |
nsabrando said: ”manga” and maybe it doesn’t make it bad but just for the simple fact that the original has more content, makes it so the original is better than the adaptation.Dude what is your problem? Just because the anime isn’t an exact copy of the manga doesn’t make a bad adaptation nor a bad anime. You’re nitpicking at irrelevant portions of the show that literally every anime has and ignoring what everyone is saying to you just to keep regurgitating an opinion that nobody agrees with. You seem like a tool. |
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White_Spirit said: As I am reading more, I start to notice more and more inconsistencies, rewrites, cuts, and made-up content. Anime doesn't seem to be following LN particularly well. Some examples from season one (spoilers, obviously): When Rudeus (involunterily) leaves the village: I get what you are trying to get at. It isn't bad if they make things up. Also i didnt feel that Rearranging scenes make any difference. Since this is a light novel adaptation, the director or the script writer has the liberty to experiment with the scenes like what he wants and what he doesn't. Light novel has a lot of information which needs to be compressed to keep up with the pacing of the anime. Also if they keep the adaptation same as that of the source material, people like us who already read the source material won't find the adaptation interesting and fun at all. Keeping that in mind, they make several changes that doesn't affect the plot but still changes the perspective of the story narrated. And IMO its a good thing |
| MT is getting adapted from both the manga and novels, like a mixed baby everybody likes mixed babies |
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| I remember reading the WN in 2015 and had to stop reading after the school arc or some bullshit. Man how cringeworthy it was. Took the bullshit light novel/web nover otaku catering writing to a whole new level. Compared to that when I watched the anime, I surprisingly enjoyed the anime that I was fully going in expecting to hate. Yes, I still hate the pedophilic and other otaku-catering bullshit but I can just turn my head around and skip it. But while reading the WN I had to painfully read through every cringe shit the author threw at me. The anime is fun. And at least 10x better than the source. Fuck the WN, gave me a mental scar. |
| "Life is too bitter, so coffee, at least should be sweet..." - Hikigaya Hachiman (Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatte Iru) |
| Well that’s just what the vocal minority says and frankly I’m just gonna say this: there’s no such thing as an objectively perfect and flawless adaptation. The anime needed to adjust and cut some context in order to befit the point of the medium it’s in, otherwise there’s just too much clutter to deal with. The story content is better off in “show don’t tell” form, anyways, instead of the tedious dialogue-heavy ones you see in Monogatari and ReZero (at least the former’s adaptations benefited heavily from visual imagery and direction). |
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Ryuseishun said: Well that’s just what the vocal minority says and frankly I’m just gonna say this: there’s no such thing as an objectively perfect and flawless adaptation. The anime needed to adjust and cut some context in order to befit the point of the medium it’s in, otherwise there’s just too much clutter to deal with. The story content is better off in “show don’t tell” form, anyways, instead of the tedious dialogue-heavy ones you see in Monogatari and ReZero (at least the former’s adaptations benefited heavily from visual imagery and direction). Re:Zero is "show don't tell" anime just because it has tremendous of dialogues doesn't change that. Example Re:Zero Season 2 true ending happens off-screen but it was hinted through full season. There is tons of details, foreshadowings and callbacks you miss first time when watching. |
OkeanixDec 8, 2021 5:07 PM
 Looking for better series than Re:Zero |
| It's not a perfect adaptation but it's still a great one for me. You can't adapt light novels 1:1 completely, adjustments would have to be made in some way or another but I feel like the anime still more than captures the spirit of the series really well while including many little details too to still make it more than just a plain adaptation and still does a good job with characterizing the main cast, only thing is that the LNs do better with the supporting cast admittedly. Immersive atmosphere through its excellent production overall from music to visuals only add so much more. Changes are there but from an anime-only perspective, it's still cohesive enough and some elements can be re-introduced later when they are more appropriate. The one negative is that I would recommend people to read the light novels from the beginning over having people continue the light novels directly from where the anime leaves off, but the actual anime itself is still a great and super engrossing adaptation nonetheless, even if it has a couple flaws. So yeah as an adaptation, probably a 9/10 one but the anime is still a 10 for me. |
animejasDec 8, 2021 8:06 PM
Okeanix said: Ryuseishun said: Well that’s just what the vocal minority says and frankly I’m just gonna say this: there’s no such thing as an objectively perfect and flawless adaptation. The anime needed to adjust and cut some context in order to befit the point of the medium it’s in, otherwise there’s just too much clutter to deal with. The story content is better off in “show don’t tell” form, anyways, instead of the tedious dialogue-heavy ones you see in Monogatari and ReZero (at least the former’s adaptations benefited heavily from visual imagery and direction). Re:Zero is "show don't tell" anime just because it has tremendous of dialogues doesn't change that. Example Re:Zero Season 2 true ending happens off-screen but it was hinted through full season. There is tons of details, foreshadowings and callbacks you miss first time when watching. I would acknowledge that more if it actually moved more visually than just self-inflate itself with tedious dialogue. It's not like I'm unaware of the nuances you mentioned, it's just that the adaptation doesn't do enough with the advantages of the anime medium to express that better imho. Then again, White Fox hasn't been the same since s1. If ReZero is really that good as you claim, why are you going out of your ways to selectively harass others for being more critical about it while still being rational about things? I never explicitly said I hated ReZero, either. Not liking isn't necessarily the same as actively disliking or hating it like you obviously are with Mushoku Tensei. But hey, you got your attention. Round of applause. |
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Ryuseishun said: Okeanix said: Re:Zero is "show don't tell" anime just because it has tremendous of dialogues doesn't change that. Example Re:Zero Season 2 true ending happens off-screen but it was hinted through full season. There is tons of details, foreshadowings and callbacks you miss first time when watching. I would acknowledge that more if it actually moved more visually than just self-inflate itself with tedious dialogue. It's not like I'm unaware of the nuances you mentioned, it's just that the adaptation doesn't do enough with the advantages of the anime medium to express that better imho. Then again, White Fox hasn't been the same since s1. If ReZero is really that good as you claim, why are you going out of your ways to selectively harass others for being more critical about it while still being rational about things? I never explicitly said I hated ReZero, either. Not liking isn't necessarily the same as actively disliking or hating it like you obviously are with Mushoku Tensei. But hey, you got your attention. Round of applause. You are the one saying Not liking isn't necessarily the same as actively disliking or hating it like you obviously are with Mushoku Tensei. when i even gave 7 score to series i hate because i try to be objective while you gave 1-3 score to almost every series you watch which doesn't deserve that low scores. You claiming i hate Mushoku Tensei which is not valid, MT is mid series for me as you saw i rated it as 6. |
Looking for better series than Re:Zero |
Ryuseishun said: Okeanix said: Re:Zero is "show don't tell" anime just because it has tremendous of dialogues doesn't change that. Example Re:Zero Season 2 true ending happens off-screen but it was hinted through full season. There is tons of details, foreshadowings and callbacks you miss first time when watching. I would acknowledge that more if it actually moved more visually than just self-inflate itself with tedious dialogue. It's not like I'm unaware of the nuances you mentioned, it's just that the adaptation doesn't do enough with the advantages of the anime medium to express that better imho. Then again, White Fox hasn't been the same since s1. If ReZero is really that good as you claim, why are you going out of your ways to selectively harass others for being more critical about it while still being rational about things? I never explicitly said I hated ReZero, either. Not liking isn't necessarily the same as actively disliking or hating it like you obviously are with Mushoku Tensei. But hey, you got your attention. Round of applause. Where did he "harass" you though? Also, Re:Zero has both "show and tell", along with "hear" as well. This cour focused more on "tell" - did you take this to mean that R:Z has no "show"? |
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| I've read further into the novel now. Now I find even more content missing which is more critical to the story. Example: I maintain the opinion that anime is not a good adaptation, too much is getting either changed or cut. Aslo I find it funny that some people who didn't read the LN and don't know what they are talking about replied here about the adaptation quality. |
White_SpiritDec 14, 2021 1:55 PM
| Leaving out or changing content does not make an adaptation bad. Trying to adapt everything 1:1 usually is impossible or at least a very bad idea as the mediums are very different. I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about. You have every right to your own opinion of course, but your arguments do not make any sense. You don't even account for the possibility that an adaptation could surpass the source material. Out of curiosity, what book adaptations do you think were good? |
| Some update - now I got to the part of the story where you can't even argue adaptation accuracy. Because there is no story. Huge chunks of it were completely cut out of the anime entirely, multiple episodes worth of content is missing. Example: Anime version: Paul hands Rudeus some unspecified letter of recommendation, and then they are on the ship Now we have a situation where whole characters are missing from the story in anime version. Also minor example of inconsistency: for some reason in anime Nokopara convinces Roxy to visit her parents with some made-up stuff about his family. That of course did not happen, in LN Roxy went to see her family first, no one convinced her to do so, then she met up with Nokopara after that, and he did not mention anything about his family at all, it was all made up just for anime. Was there any reason to change this? Nope, but they did it anyway, just because. Also for some reason Roxy going to her village takes like half the episode, while in LN it only mentioned very briefly. Meanwhile, then they decide to cut out everything I mentioned in Example 1... Eris vs assassins could have been a great fight to see animated, but nope we get nothing instead. __________________ Another thing I noticed, this time is a complete failure of the animators - Rudeus is not being depicted as growing up at all. In the anime he looks pretty much the same from when he first met Eris to when he reunited with his father after passing the demon continent. That's like what, 6-7 years passed by that point? Meanwhile, in LN illustrations, even though there are quite few of them, he does look noticeably older when he meets up with Paul. |
White_SpiritDec 29, 2021 7:02 AM
White_Spirit said: Another thing I noticed, this time is a complete failure of the animators - Rudeus is not being depicted as growing up at all. In the anime he looks pretty much the same from when he first met Eris to when he reunited with his father after passing the demon continent. That's like what, 6-7 years passed by that point? Meanwhile, in LN illustrations, even though there are quite few of them, he does look noticeably older when he meets up with Paul. He looks slightly older but not significantly. But it's not easy at all to animate so many new designs to show changes like that, especially when there's a schedule to keep up with. It's so difficult for anime to do that in general. Hell, even Bakuman, one of my all-time favorite anime has characters grow from 14 to mid 20s and look exactly the same overall (anime and manga just took the middle of that age group and had everyone look the same over a long period of time since minimal timeskips were there to show genuine change). Rudeus looks young but he does show some minimal growth at least and the guy's still young and hitting the age where his growth would speed up through puberty. I'll see how season 2 handles it but it's just not easy to change his design all the time in an accurate fashion. There are reasons why major timeskips exist, where designs for anime and manga can change completely without adjusting over time consistently. LNs only have illustrations once in a while so change can be described a lot easier without being continuous. Consider the practical aspects of the mediums too. The anime showed proper change when he was a baby and minimal change when he was growing up through the first 2 cours, but obviously can't just change everything too drastically because they want to maintain some consistency too and not have him suddenly change instantly just over a few weeks or a few months. LNs have the advantage there since its only a few illustrations so him growing up over a few years are a lot easier to portray. TL;DR: It's very, very difficult and time consuming and most studios in situations like these wouldn't bother. Studio Bind at least did show some progress with growth to some minor extent and Eris clearly did age well too compared to the start of her adventure. Rudeus is still a kid, not yet an adult. Give it more time for more growth somewhat. |
animejasDec 29, 2021 7:49 AM
White_Spirit said: The Roxy part was done better in the anime using Nokopera, I don't find it a big deal if they are changing things because at the end of the day the LN changes things from the Web Novel Original as well, if it was just a direct copy it wouldn't really be that good to watch from a LN reader point of view considering it's all 100% predictable, each adaption should have a bit of change as long as it's as good or better.Some update - now I got to the part of the story where you can't even argue adaptation accuracy. Because there is no story. Huge chunks of it were completely cut out of the anime entirely, multiple episodes worth of content is missing. Example: Anime version: Paul hands Rudeus some unspecified letter of recommendation, and then they are on the ship Now we have a situation where whole characters are missing from the story in anime version. Also minor example of inconsistency: for some reason in anime Nokopara convinces Roxy to visit her parents with some made-up stuff about his family. That of course did not happen, in LN Roxy went to see her family first, no one convinced her to do so, then she met up with Nokopara after that, and he did not mention anything about his family at all, it was all made up just for anime. Was there any reason to change this? Nope, but they did it anyway, just because. Also for some reason Roxy going to her village takes like half the episode, while in LN it only mentioned very briefly. Meanwhile, then they decide to cut out everything I mentioned in Example 1... Eris vs assassins could have been a great fight to see animated, but nope we get nothing instead. __________________ Another thing I noticed, this time is a complete failure of the animators - Rudeus is not being depicted as growing up at all. In the anime he looks pretty much the same from when he first met Eris to when he reunited with his father after passing the demon continent. That's like what, 6-7 years passed by that point? Meanwhile, in LN illustrations, even though there are quite few of them, he does look noticeably older when he meets up with Paul. As for the LN illustration's on Rudy I think he is aged up too much in the LN in this part, he looks like a teen at that stage even though he is 11, I think they adjusted it accordingly. |
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