| Yeah probably The only antagonists that come close to him are Griffith and Funny Valentine imo |
| he is one of the greatest for sure, but I don't think he's on the number 1 seat because that's reserved for Griffith from Berserk |
| I don't think so. There are many ideas about him that go loose and/or unexplained. Such as that money scheme and mafia leadership. Also, he is refered as the biggest evil, but this idea never really gets expanded. But I can get why people like the guy. He has an atmosphere surrounded by mist. |
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MindlessWalker said: He's an interesting character but his charisma bordering on mind control is never actually demonstrated and his entire character is more of a symbol of nihilism than anything, honestly. He's became the Antichrist because he was brainwashed as a child, that's his entire character. There are villains with much more nuanced and well-established personalities, for example: Bondrewd from Made in Abyss, and his incredibly twisted idea of love and his willingness to do anything for science and to further his own knowledge of the abyss. His motivations are entirely believable given the situation and give actual food for thought. Griffith from Berserk, and his descent into madness as his obsessive ambitiousness slowly overwhelmed whatever humanity he had left in him. Johan isn't really a fully fleshed out human being, which imo works in the story's favor b/c Monster is more about the side characters and Tenma/Johan's impact on them rather than the mystery behind Johan, but this means that Tenma/Johan are basically reduced to plot devices who neither receive development nor are complex, 3-dimensional human beings Yes I agree. I remember reading a review from an user here, that expanded these ideas. But this is just what I think. |
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LordSozin said: No he isn't. What? All he has ever done in the show was to provide the allure of threat and suspense. When the conclusion came along, it was lame. I guess his presence, or lack there of, really harmed him as an antagonist for me. Yes, he never really lives up to his "monster" status. Alright, he kills people, and this is bad. But this is so generic. Many characters in Monster do worse thing than him tbh |
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KitsuFreeze said: you don't need to explain everything to be the best "x".I don't think so. There are many ideas about him that go loose and/or unexplained. Such as that money scheme and mafia leadership. KitsuFreeze said: it was. You just have to catch the clues and deduce them. "Show don't tell". Pretty sure everyone's heard of that.Also, he is refered as the biggest evil, but this idea never really gets expanded. |
TRC_Randy said: KitsuFreeze said: I don't think so. There are many ideas about him that go loose and/or unexplained. Such as that money scheme and mafia leadership. you don't need to explain everything to be the best "x" Everything? The show doesn't explain almost nothing about him, and his whole plan doesn't really go anywhere relevant. If the idea was to be mysterious, the writer still needs to explain the minimum. Plus his actions are conditioned by nazis, and therefore he was "meant" to act like that. Bondrewd's actions for example make sense for the character, he had free will and decided to do things his own way. KitsuFreeze said: it was. You just have to catch the clues and deduce them. "Show don't tell". Pretty sure everyone's heard of that.Also, he is refered as the biggest evil, but this idea never really gets expanded. Again, there aren't enough clues since he just shows up a feel times to do sinister things just to look like it. I think that people overthink Monster sometimes, when there isn't much to go. And I'm not even talking about the 74 episodes count, which for a quest on finding-the-killer is very long and dragged. |
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KitsuFreeze said: wdym doesn't explain anything? We got his backstory about him coming from Czech Republic, escaped to the border, found by General Wolf, sent to the orphanage etc, he's an intelligent psychopath, nihilist, plays with fate, traces his past, battles Tenma ideologically about human lives etc. Fr, what issue do you have?Everything? The show doesn't explain almost nothing about him KitsuFreeze said: "conditioned by nazis" sorry mate our discussion ends here. At this point you're just missing the details of the story bcoz Johan was never "conditioned by the nazis". He only joined them when he was an adult.and his whole plan doesn't really go anywhere relevant. If the idea was to be mysterious, the writer still needs to explain the minimum. Plus his actions are conditioned by nazis |
pasanoid said: Johan had almost 0 presence throughout the show. Some call it 'well written' but in reality it is the opposite. Johan was talked about by well written characters while being poorly written himself Yes, and the anime just throws you this idea of "yeah, he is so intelligent you won't get it, so we don't need to explain you". And there is also his last moments in plot who are another issue, but stupid mindless fans don't get such an obvious thing. |
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TRC_Randy said: KitsuFreeze said: wdym doesn't explain anything? We got his backstory about him coming from Czech Republic, escaped to the border, found by General Wolf, sent to the orphanage etc, he's an intelligent psychopath, nihilist, plays with fate, traces his past, battles Tenma ideologically about human lives etc. Fr, what issue do you have?Everything? The show doesn't explain almost nothing about him KitsuFreeze said: "conditioned by nazis" sorry mate our discussion ends here. At this point you're just missing the details of the story bcoz Johan was never "conditioned by the nazis". He only joined them when he was an adult.and his whole plan doesn't really go anywhere relevant. If the idea was to be mysterious, the writer still needs to explain the minimum. Plus his actions are conditioned by nazis Lmao spot on dude perfectly summed up |
BigBossQb said: yeah i mean i'm perfectly fine with criticisms that challenge my beliefs but by not paying attention to what he watched is simply HIS OWN error.Lmao spot on dude perfectly summed up |
DoctorWasabi said: I mean Doflamingo and Katakuri from One Piece easily take the place of best antagonist of all time.   I have seen Monster, and I do think Johan's a great antagonist, but Monsters atrocious pacing issues gave him a lot less screen time/development time. LMAO, If you truly believe that any One Piss character can approach the level of complexity, nuance, interpretation, and development of a character like Johan, then I can't help but laugh. |
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