New
Sep 16, 2021 2:07 PM
#1
What i mean by this, is that there seems to be a huge lack of more adult type projects, be it original or adaptations, with more mature tones/conflicts, and usually featuring an adult cast of characters, and with strong styles which were kind of popular and prominent back in the 80s, 90s and part of the 2000s, where it was also very popular the OVA format. But these kind of projects and days seems to be over or almost dead as of today, and i dont get it. Im talking about stuff like Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Appleseed, Jin Roh, Ninja Scroll, Seirei no Moribito, Area 88 Ovas, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black, Berserk, Vampire Hunter D, Ergo Proxy, Monster, Alita, Perfect Blue, Serial Experiment Lain, Redline and the likes. These kinds of projects were very recurrent during those times, but now is very lacking. Sure there has been some stuff like that recently like Vinland Saga, Odd Taxi or Dorohedoro. But these are very few and so far in between compared to everything else that gets released today. Nowadays 99% of release is either a random SOL, or a random Romcom, or a generic Isekai N.856346, or your current hype trending Shonen of the season. Is it there some explanation for this? What happened to a lot of the adult stuff? |
TheBlackPlagueSep 16, 2021 2:10 PM
Sep 16, 2021 2:21 PM
#2
You're talking about the highlights from history, which is easy to do, as you picked from a range of 1985-2007, a period of 22 years. Without knowing that what you're saying sounds pretty convincing, but having not lived through that time period, it's easy to look back and see it through rose tinted glasses. I will say Shounen has gotten a lot more popular, but that isn't to say there isn't quality adult stories coming out or a lack thereof. The anime you listed have been discovered by the people watching anime back then, while we are finding everything out now for the anime of today so the people of tomorrow can look back with ease. |
Sep 16, 2021 2:24 PM
#3
Those were also expensive productions and coincided with the fact that many directors, animators and script writers who started in the 80s at that time they were at their peak. Now most of them retired, died or are not as productive anymore. Their source of inspiration were literature, comics, manga, cinema etc Some like Oshii Mamoru were authors themselves also involved in live action. Their successors prefer to get inspired by light novels, visual novels and video games when it comes to serious stories, limited just to the anime genre. |
Sep 16, 2021 2:28 PM
#4
It coincides with the fall of the OVA format, a format which allowed more ambitious projects than your average, more regulated and budget and time oriented TV production. I'm not sure why the fall happened though. Pricing maybe? As for the incredibly moody TV anime of the late 90s and 2000s, I think they just fell out of fashion when moe became the hot new thing. |
MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
Sep 16, 2021 2:46 PM
#5
DeepRiver said: What i mean by this, is that there seems to be a huge lack of more adult type projects, be it original or adaptations, with more mature tones/conflicts, and usually featuring an adult cast of characters, and with strong styles which were kind of popular and prominent back in the 80s, 90s and part of the 2000s, where it was also very popular the OVA format. But these kind of projects and days seems to be over or almost dead as of today, and i dont get it. Im talking about stuff like Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Appleseed, Jin Roh, Ninja Scroll, Seirei no Moribito, Area 88 Ovas, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black, Berserk, Vampire Hunter D, Ergo Proxy, Monster, Alita, Perfect Blue, Serial Experiment Lain, Redline and the likes. These kinds of projects were very recurrent during those times, but now is very lacking. Sure there has been some stuff like that recently like Vinland Saga, Odd Taxi or Dorohedoro. But these are very few and so far in between compared to everything else that gets released today. Nowadays 99% of release is either a random SOL, or a random Romcom, or a generic Isekai N.856346, or your current hype trending Shonen of the season. Is it there some explanation for this? What happened to a lot of the adult stuff? I agree with @Lunilah on their post that you looking at time span of almost over a 22 year time period. I started watching anime back in the early 90's and I haven't noticed any lack of adult type projects more so then noticing just more anime in general being produced where a majority of titles being released are trying to appeal to broader audiences. Pretty much anyone who has grown up watching anime for only the past decade has basically been spoiled with the amount of titles released compared to the previous two decades before it. Just as much adult theme projects are being produced today just there aren't as many being recognized compared to the previous last two decades. If anything more are being produced just they are being drowned out by other titles being constantly produced that target more broader audiences. This is probably why you would feel there is a lack of "adult anime" titles being produced. |
Sep 16, 2021 2:54 PM
#6
Theo1899 said: It coincides with the fall of the OVA format, a format which allowed more ambitious projects than your average, more regulated and budget and time oriented TV production. I'm not sure why the fall happened though. Pricing maybe? As for the incredibly moody TV anime of the late 90s and 2000s, I think they just fell out of fashion when moe became the hot new thing. Personally I feel this is where streaming services like Netflix might step up, but we'll have to see |
Sep 16, 2021 3:13 PM
#7
I have to agree the others who say you're kinda cherry picking. This season alone you've got 3 shows that are definitely adult orientated(Sonny Boy, Idaten, and whatever the reverse harem ecchi is callef). There's always 1 or 2 a season |
Sep 16, 2021 3:41 PM
#8
Sep 16, 2021 3:42 PM
#9
The new people lost the creativity and brains to come up with mature, thought provoking and deeper series, and so when cognitive abilities are gone, all thats left is primordial instincts. Because as humans, when all our philosophies and ideas are stripped of, thats what we really are. Thus comes the fan service, the moe, the lolis, violence for the sake of violence and action for the sake of action, all for the anime to make money for the sake of making money, because our primitive needs is the lowest denominator...I mean why else would the porn industry be a thing. Anime was also sorta niche back in the day, it wasn't mainstream, people get made fun of or bullied for liking this stuff, but because it wasn't mainstream, it attracted a certain group of people, or audience who were into unconventional storylines, or series which talked about real stuff which related to them (Evangelion and Elfen Lied for example). Maybe there was a lack of understanding or communication back then, maybe social media wasn't around much back then, so shows were unique and stood out. Whereas now, social media is everywhere and the masses of people got into it and anime becomes mainstream. But because of mass appeal, these kinds of animes sorta diminshed, and cause of social media, every anime nowadays is more or less the same copy paste. Simply having adult themes doesn't it deep like the stuff op mentioned. And maybe because the masses of the younger generation (millennials and zoomers alike) grew up in a blissful environment where the world was supposed to be perfect (which is maybe why theres so much depression and nostalgic for the past nowadays). But this came at a price, and this is one of them. The animations and styles look pretty much the same from one anime to another, and the art style is alot brighter than before, despite our future looking terribly bleak lol @DeepRiver, check out Texhnolyze and Kino's Journey too |
removed-userSep 16, 2021 3:54 PM
Sep 16, 2021 3:49 PM
#10
I think some of this has to do with art style changes. Newer anime art style seems to be more childish looking. |
There's no need for all this tension. |
Sep 16, 2021 3:53 PM
#11
DeepRiver said: there was no "hype shonen of the season" in the last two season what are you talking about? What i mean by this, is that there seems to be a huge lack of more adult type projects, be it original or adaptations, with more mature tones/conflicts, and usually featuring an adult cast of characters, and with strong styles which were kind of popular and prominent back in the 80s, 90s and part of the 2000s, where it was also very popular the OVA format. But these kind of projects and days seems to be over or almost dead as of today, and i dont get it. Im talking about stuff like Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Appleseed, Jin Roh, Ninja Scroll, Seirei no Moribito, Area 88 Ovas, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black, Berserk, Vampire Hunter D, Ergo Proxy, Monster, Alita, Perfect Blue, Serial Experiment Lain, Redline and the likes. These kinds of projects were very recurrent during those times, but now is very lacking. Sure there has been some stuff like that recently like Vinland Saga, Odd Taxi or Dorohedoro. But these are very few and so far in between compared to everything else that gets released today. Nowadays 99% of release is either a random SOL, or a random Romcom, or a generic Isekai N.856346, or your current hype trending Shonen of the season. Is it there some explanation for this? What happened to a lot of the adult stuff? Lunilah said: Shonen is not that popular in japan tI will say Shounen has gotten a lot more popular, but that isn't to say there isn't quality adult stories coming out or a lack thereof. The anime you listed have been discovered by the people watching anime back then, while we are finding everything out now for the anime of today so the people of tomorrow can look back with ease. |
Deathlydash |
Sep 16, 2021 3:54 PM
#12
Majikkusesu said: most older anime were also child lookingI think some of this has to do with art style changes. Newer anime art style seems to be more childish looking. |
Deathlydash |
Sep 16, 2021 3:59 PM
#13
Deathlydash said: Weekly Shonen Jump is extremely popular in Japan, i don't know why you're saying this.Lunilah said: Shonen is not that popular in japan tI will say Shounen has gotten a lot more popular, but that isn't to say there isn't quality adult stories coming out or a lack thereof. The anime you listed have been discovered by the people watching anime back then, while we are finding everything out now for the anime of today so the people of tomorrow can look back with ease. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2020-06-05/shueisha-reveals-2019-circulation-numbers-for-manga-magazines/.160319 https://comicbook.com/anime/news/shonen-jump-manga-hits-record-profits-2021/ |
Sep 16, 2021 4:21 PM
#14
Lunilah said: yeah but i don't see that many shonen in the top 50 selling manga of the week lists Like this one https://mobile.twitter.com/MangaMoguraRE/status/1436369677349961736Deathlydash said: Weekly Shonen Jump is extremely popular in Japan, i don't know why you're saying this.Lunilah said: I will say Shounen has gotten a lot more popular, but that isn't to say there isn't quality adult stories coming out or a lack thereof. The anime you listed have been discovered by the people watching anime back then, while we are finding everything out now for the anime of today so the people of tomorrow can look back with ease. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2020-06-05/shueisha-reveals-2019-circulation-numbers-for-manga-magazines/.160319 https://comicbook.com/anime/news/shonen-jump-manga-hits-record-profits-2021/ |
Deathlydash |
Sep 16, 2021 4:21 PM
#15
ColourWheel said: DeepRiver said: What i mean by this, is that there seems to be a huge lack of more adult type projects, be it original or adaptations, with more mature tones/conflicts, and usually featuring an adult cast of characters, and with strong styles which were kind of popular and prominent back in the 80s, 90s and part of the 2000s, where it was also very popular the OVA format. But these kind of projects and days seems to be over or almost dead as of today, and i dont get it. Im talking about stuff like Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Appleseed, Jin Roh, Ninja Scroll, Seirei no Moribito, Area 88 Ovas, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black, Berserk, Vampire Hunter D, Ergo Proxy, Monster, Alita, Perfect Blue, Serial Experiment Lain, Redline and the likes. These kinds of projects were very recurrent during those times, but now is very lacking. Sure there has been some stuff like that recently like Vinland Saga, Odd Taxi or Dorohedoro. But these are very few and so far in between compared to everything else that gets released today. Nowadays 99% of release is either a random SOL, or a random Romcom, or a generic Isekai N.856346, or your current hype trending Shonen of the season. Is it there some explanation for this? What happened to a lot of the adult stuff? I agree with @Lunilah on their post that you looking at time span of almost over a 22 year time period. I started watching anime back in the early 90's and I haven't noticed any lack of adult type projects more so then noticing just more anime in general being produced where a majority of titles being released are trying to appeal to broader audiences. Pretty much anyone who has grown up watching anime for only the past decade has basically been spoiled with the amount of titles released compared to the previous two decades before it. Just as much adult theme projects are being produced today just there aren't as many being recognized compared to the previous last two decades. If anything more are being produced just they are being drowned out by other titles being constantly produced that target more broader audiences. This is probably why you would feel there is a lack of "adult anime" titles being produced. I'm curious as to what you would highlight as the best counter-examples in the past 10 1/2 or so years, say post-2009 (from 2010 onward) compared to some of the examples listed in the OP? I haven't formed a strong position on this yet, but I do hear this topic raised fairly frequently and I tend to lean toward thinking the OP is correct that they were significantly more prevalent then. Yes, he just named the most well-known and prominent ones because, obviously, that's what most people would do (and if he named more obscure titles if he indeed knows of them then it's possible that you, I, or other readers might not be familiar with those and have to check and look them up in the database), but he still listed a good 18 titles. Compared to the amount of anime produced both then and now, that isn't actually a lot as a raw number, but I wonder myself and am struggling to think if there are as many post-2009 major titles in the same vein. There's thematically comparably heavy and dark anime released every year and probably every season, maybe even moreso than then owing to the sheer volume of anime produced nowadays, but I wonder if they are generally regarded to be of the same caliber and quality as many of the example titles posted by the OP and whether they will have even remotely the same legacy. The legacy of most might not extend even past the year or season itself or even get off the ground in the first place. People will then say, "But that's true of the older series as well. You remember them because those are the ones which stood out and have a legacy in the first place", but even if that's true, what are the equivalent series of the past 11 years? Like, I agree those examples are cherry picked because they're the ones that stood the test of time, but the spirit of OP's post and similar thread topics like it seem to be raising the inquiry "Are there even as many series in the past decade or so which can compare to these?". Even if cherry picked, people should still be able to cherry pick counter-examples from the modern age that can stand toe to toe with the older series. |
Sep 16, 2021 4:24 PM
#16
Deathlydash said: So what? Also Shonen is making up 50% of that top 10 and 100% of the top 3.Lunilah said: yeah but i don't see that many shonen in the top 50 selling manga of the week lists Like this one https://mobile.twitter.com/MangaMoguraRE/status/1436369677349961736Deathlydash said: Lunilah said: Shonen is not that popular in japan tI will say Shounen has gotten a lot more popular, but that isn't to say there isn't quality adult stories coming out or a lack thereof. The anime you listed have been discovered by the people watching anime back then, while we are finding everything out now for the anime of today so the people of tomorrow can look back with ease. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2020-06-05/shueisha-reveals-2019-circulation-numbers-for-manga-magazines/.160319 https://comicbook.com/anime/news/shonen-jump-manga-hits-record-profits-2021/ |
Sep 16, 2021 4:33 PM
#17
LOL OP thinks SOL, romcom, shonen and isekai aren't for adults. |
All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
Sep 16, 2021 4:36 PM
#18
but shounen means young boys so its not really for adults |
Deathlydash |
Sep 16, 2021 4:38 PM
#19
rohan121 said: what the fuck are you talking about? do you really think every seinen is like vinland saga, punpun , vagabond and berserk?Seinen often has to do with the real world. Shounen often offers escapism from such settings. A lot of shounen anime appeal even to older male demographic nowadays so we see less seinen anime. |
Deathlydash |
Sep 16, 2021 4:40 PM
#20
WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: DeepRiver said: What i mean by this, is that there seems to be a huge lack of more adult type projects, be it original or adaptations, with more mature tones/conflicts, and usually featuring an adult cast of characters, and with strong styles which were kind of popular and prominent back in the 80s, 90s and part of the 2000s, where it was also very popular the OVA format. But these kind of projects and days seems to be over or almost dead as of today, and i dont get it. Im talking about stuff like Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Appleseed, Jin Roh, Ninja Scroll, Seirei no Moribito, Area 88 Ovas, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black, Berserk, Vampire Hunter D, Ergo Proxy, Monster, Alita, Perfect Blue, Serial Experiment Lain, Redline and the likes. These kinds of projects were very recurrent during those times, but now is very lacking. Sure there has been some stuff like that recently like Vinland Saga, Odd Taxi or Dorohedoro. But these are very few and so far in between compared to everything else that gets released today. Nowadays 99% of release is either a random SOL, or a random Romcom, or a generic Isekai N.856346, or your current hype trending Shonen of the season. Is it there some explanation for this? What happened to a lot of the adult stuff? I agree with @Lunilah on their post that you looking at time span of almost over a 22 year time period. I started watching anime back in the early 90's and I haven't noticed any lack of adult type projects more so then noticing just more anime in general being produced where a majority of titles being released are trying to appeal to broader audiences. Pretty much anyone who has grown up watching anime for only the past decade has basically been spoiled with the amount of titles released compared to the previous two decades before it. Just as much adult theme projects are being produced today just there aren't as many being recognized compared to the previous last two decades. If anything more are being produced just they are being drowned out by other titles being constantly produced that target more broader audiences. This is probably why you would feel there is a lack of "adult anime" titles being produced. I'm curious as to what you would highlight as the best counter-examples in the past 10 1/2 or so years, say post-2009 (from 2010 onward) compared to some of the examples listed in the OP? I haven't formed a strong position on this yet, but I do hear this topic raised fairly frequently and I tend to lean toward thinking the OP is correct that they were significantly more prevalent then. Yes, he just named the most well-known and prominent ones because, obviously, that's what most people would do (and if he named more obscure titles if he indeed knows of them then it's possible that you, I, or other readers might not be familiar with those and have to check and look them up in the database), but he still listed a good 18 titles. Compared to the amount of anime produced both then and now, that isn't actually a lot as a raw number, but I wonder myself and am struggling to think if there are as many post-2009 major titles in the same vein. There's thematically comparably heavy and dark anime released every year and probably every season, maybe even moreso than then owing to the sheer volume of anime produced nowadays, but I wonder if they are generally regarded to be of the same caliber and quality as many of the example titles posted by the OP and whether they will have even remotely the same legacy. The legacy of most might not extend even past the year or season itself or even get off the ground in the first place. People will then say, "But that's true of the older series as well. You remember them because those are the ones which stood out and have a legacy in the first place", but even if that's true, what are the equivalent series of the past 11 years? Like, I agree those examples are cherry picked because they're the ones that stood the test of time, but the spirit of OP's post and similar thread topics like it seem to be raising the inquiry "Are there even as many series in the past decade or so which can compare to these?". Even if cherry picked, people should still be able to cherry pick counter-examples from the modern age that can stand toe to toe with the older series. Just off the top of my head Dorohedoro Jormungand Another Golden Kamuy Boogiepop Death Billiards Gangster Gosick The Monogatari series Shinsekai Yori Sonny Boy Idaten |
billybubSep 16, 2021 4:52 PM
Sep 16, 2021 4:40 PM
#21
Tokyo Revengers came In 2021, so idk what you are talking about i fooled you |
0__Raven__0Sep 16, 2021 5:23 PM
Sep 16, 2021 4:45 PM
#22
There are not so few as you think, but most of them stay under the radar, like Wave, listen to me! did, or Heike Monogatari that has just started a day ago or Odd Taxi in the last season and so on. Yep, and maybe I should tell you that SOL is mostly made for adult audience - targeting adults not necessarliy means a story dealing with sex, blood or serious themes. What you seem to be looking down on is not SOL (slice of life is a storytelling techique in literature, theatre and cinema as well) but CGDCT that is just a part of SOL. Mushishi for example is SOL without cute girls in it. |
IshitatesoSep 16, 2021 5:05 PM
Sep 16, 2021 5:02 PM
#23
Cut out OVAS and films and there is more "adult anime" by percent than 73-97 now. But OVAS and films made such a big piece of the pie between 85-97 that in terms of title count there was a way higher percentage than now. Of course, there has been adult anime since the first year TV anime was a thing in 63, and the shows during the spokkon boom of the late 60s/early 70s were also far grittier than modern shows.The early rise of late night TV anime directly followed a second economic crisis in Japan that happened in 97, before they recovered from the 92 crash. Western licensing helped keep the industry alive during the 90s and we loved these shorter more adult titles, much more so than Japan. So then 98-08ish was the industry's attempt to move that kind of adult OVA content on to TV, which would be easier to produce more of, and sell internationally for the same price. But most of those shows failed overall, where battle shounens, CGDCT, harem and VN eroge adaptations did well for themselves in Japan and increasingly abroad as well. In 08 the international market crashed, which caused anime to go very insular and decrease the insane levels of overproduction we saw around 06/07. 09-10 is full of harem, ecchi, comedy,CGDCT, LN adaptations full of Japanese otaku references, etc, and the later resurgence of global popularity saw international fans with tastes more in line with Japanese taste than earlier generations, but did expand out genre wise just a bit again. Modern TV anime is on average less "kiddy" than the children's TV anime of most of the 60s-90s, which was most of TV anime then, we are actually lacking in true kids anime in comparison if anything (unfortunately, since it is often more creative and better produced). Anime is more so for the mental 14 year old now, whatever their age happens to be. |
Fmod91Sep 16, 2021 5:06 PM
Sep 16, 2021 5:17 PM
#24
Isn't it obvious? People like fights, power levels and big boobs. For heavier or adult-related non sexual topics, authors would have to think, and they don't want that, so they just go through the same formula. You could relatively easily create a mix of both worlds, but once again, it requires thinking, and having good writing skills, which the average author lacks. Copying the same old formula is working, as some of them make alot of money because of that. Once the demand changes so will the products offered, so its more or less in the hands of the viewers. However, I don't see the common taste changing anytime soon, so don't expect many of such shows to appear more frequently over time. |
Sep 16, 2021 5:53 PM
#25
WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: DeepRiver said: What i mean by this, is that there seems to be a huge lack of more adult type projects, be it original or adaptations, with more mature tones/conflicts, and usually featuring an adult cast of characters, and with strong styles which were kind of popular and prominent back in the 80s, 90s and part of the 2000s, where it was also very popular the OVA format. But these kind of projects and days seems to be over or almost dead as of today, and i dont get it. Im talking about stuff like Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Appleseed, Jin Roh, Ninja Scroll, Seirei no Moribito, Area 88 Ovas, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black, Berserk, Vampire Hunter D, Ergo Proxy, Monster, Alita, Perfect Blue, Serial Experiment Lain, Redline and the likes. These kinds of projects were very recurrent during those times, but now is very lacking. Sure there has been some stuff like that recently like Vinland Saga, Odd Taxi or Dorohedoro. But these are very few and so far in between compared to everything else that gets released today. Nowadays 99% of release is either a random SOL, or a random Romcom, or a generic Isekai N.856346, or your current hype trending Shonen of the season. Is it there some explanation for this? What happened to a lot of the adult stuff? I agree with @Lunilah on their post that you looking at time span of almost over a 22 year time period. I started watching anime back in the early 90's and I haven't noticed any lack of adult type projects more so then noticing just more anime in general being produced where a majority of titles being released are trying to appeal to broader audiences. Pretty much anyone who has grown up watching anime for only the past decade has basically been spoiled with the amount of titles released compared to the previous two decades before it. Just as much adult theme projects are being produced today just there aren't as many being recognized compared to the previous last two decades. If anything more are being produced just they are being drowned out by other titles being constantly produced that target more broader audiences. This is probably why you would feel there is a lack of "adult anime" titles being produced. I'm curious as to what you would highlight as the best counter-examples in the past 10 1/2 or so years, say post-2009 (from 2010 onward) compared to some of the examples listed in the OP? I haven't formed a strong position on this yet, but I do hear this topic raised fairly frequently and I tend to lean toward thinking the OP is correct that they were significantly more prevalent then. Yes, he just named the most well-known and prominent ones because, obviously, that's what most people would do (and if he named more obscure titles if he indeed knows of them then it's possible that you, I, or other readers might not be familiar with those and have to check and look them up in the database), but he still listed a good 18 titles. Compared to the amount of anime produced both then and now, that isn't actually a lot as a raw number, but I wonder myself and am struggling to think if there are as many post-2009 major titles in the same vein. There's thematically comparably heavy and dark anime released every year and probably every season, maybe even moreso than then owing to the sheer volume of anime produced nowadays, but I wonder if they are generally regarded to be of the same caliber and quality as many of the example titles posted by the OP and whether they will have even remotely the same legacy. The legacy of most might not extend even past the year or season itself or even get off the ground in the first place. People will then say, "But that's true of the older series as well. You remember them because those are the ones which stood out and have a legacy in the first place", but even if that's true, what are the equivalent series of the past 11 years? Like, I agree those examples are cherry picked because they're the ones that stood the test of time, but the spirit of OP's post and similar thread topics like it seem to be raising the inquiry "Are there even as many series in the past decade or so which can compare to these?". Even if cherry picked, people should still be able to cherry pick counter-examples from the modern age that can stand toe to toe with the older series. As you closely noted these were cherry picked titles over a time span of 22 years between them being from the late 80's to the mid 2000's. The problem I see about the entire premise of this debate is not all the titles listed were even originally targeted strictly towards adults to begin with. Some of these titles were initially unrated till the MPAA or what ever bureaucracy suddenly decided to rate them as R+. As a good example Cowboy bebop was never even rated till suddenly after the late 90's it became popular in the United States and someone suddenly noticed there was one scene in the series where naked breasts are shown briefly. I still have the original dvd set of the entire cowboy bebop series when it was 1st printed. Nowhere on it's cover sleeves or even on the discs does it have some parental guidance nor does it state anywhere claiming it to be unrated either. It wasn't till the early to mid 2000's we started seeing anime series being rated at all with the exception of OVA's and movies that weren't broadcasted on networks to begin with. Over the years guidance rating have changed as well. There have been movies as an example that have been bumped from being Rated R to PG-13 and vise versa. If a title like Cowboy bebop was released today it would possibly be rated PG-13 or Teens 13 or older. To answer your question about the past decade only time will tell since it's too early to hold anything in high regards whether titles will hold up to the test of time. Edit: Further more I just went to check my collection of anime collecting dust in my study where I have every wall filled with anime and movies. I just picked out a dvd at random which was "najica blitz tactics" which came out in 2001. On MAL they rated it as being "R+ - Mild Nudity". but nowhere on it's DVD sleeve or disc does it give any parental guidance nor warnings about nudity. |
ColourWheelSep 16, 2021 6:18 PM
Sep 16, 2021 6:33 PM
#26
ColourWheel said: As you closely noted these were cherry picked titles over a time span of 22 years between them being from the late 80's to the mid 2000's. The problem I see about the entire premise of this debate is not all the titles listed were even originally targeted strictly towards adults to begin with. Some of these titles were initially unrated till the MPAA or what ever bureaucracy suddenly decided to rate them as R+. As a good example Cowboy bebop was never even rated till suddenly after the late 90's it became popular in the United States and someone suddenly noticed there was one scene in the series where naked breasts are shown briefly. I still have the original dvd set of the entire cowboy bebop series when it was 1st printed. Nowhere on it's cover sleeves or even on the discs does it have some parental guidance nor does it state anywhere claiming it to be unrated either. It wasn't till the early to mid 2000's we started seeing anime series being rated at all with the exception of OVA's and movies that weren't broadcasted on networks to begin with. Over the years guidance rating have changed as well. There have been movies as an example that have been bumped from being Rated R to PG-13 and vise versa. If a title like Cowboy bebop was released today it would possibly be rated PG-13 or Teens 13 or older. Yes, that's true about the rating situation, but I didn't mention ratings in my post and neither did the OP. I get the sense he's referring more to style and thematic content. Ratings are primarily for governing access to sexually explicit content or explicit content in terms of graphic violence. You can have a complex and mature story which mainly appeals to older audiences without either of those things at all. ColourWheel said: To answer your question about the past decade only time will tell since it's too early to hold anything in high regards whether titles will hold up to the test of time. This is what I wanted to address in my post, although I may not have made myself clear. People say things to this effect often, but is it really true? I didn't start watching anime until 2016 and already in my 20s, but I've been on the internet since at least around 2001 - 2002 when I was in middle school and haven't been blind, deaf, and living under a rock. I was aware enough of trends in the popular culture - even in the minority/niche Western nerd/otaku culture as I was on the computer frequently, even if I didn't participate in fandoms and such myself for a lot of things. Some of the titles OP mentioned had a large degree of success, popularity, and a known following practically immediately or within a few years of when they aired. It didn't take 10 or 15 or 20 years to see a following arise for series like Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, or Lain. They had huge acclaim and a fan subculture very quickly. Certainly no more than past like five years. So at this point the series which aired in 2010 and 2011 have aired 11 and 10 years ago, respectively. Even 2015 is six years ago now. I think even that's enough time. I don't mean as to whether they'll stand the test of time in 50 or 100 years as we don't even know that for the other older ones, but to have the same degree of fandom, acclaim, and cult following and buzz for those who like those type of anime series as the older ones did after they aired. It didn't take until 2013 or something to see great enthusiasm and acclaim around Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Black Lagoon, etc. Some of the titles he mentioned I would argue were even more of a big deal closer to when they were released rather than now. |
Sep 16, 2021 6:51 PM
#27
If you give your 10% focus on manga. You'll know, in reality adults sources are more in comparison to teens. |
_aLiez_LINSep 16, 2021 8:46 PM
"When they're alive, you can enjoy watching them struggle. When they're dead, you can enjoy tearing out their guts. Tales are things you get to enjoy twice." |
Sep 16, 2021 7:26 PM
#28
WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: As you closely noted these were cherry picked titles over a time span of 22 years between them being from the late 80's to the mid 2000's. The problem I see about the entire premise of this debate is not all the titles listed were even originally targeted strictly towards adults to begin with. Some of these titles were initially unrated till the MPAA or what ever bureaucracy suddenly decided to rate them as R+. As a good example Cowboy bebop was never even rated till suddenly after the late 90's it became popular in the United States and someone suddenly noticed there was one scene in the series where naked breasts are shown briefly. I still have the original dvd set of the entire cowboy bebop series when it was 1st printed. Nowhere on it's cover sleeves or even on the discs does it have some parental guidance nor does it state anywhere claiming it to be unrated either. It wasn't till the early to mid 2000's we started seeing anime series being rated at all with the exception of OVA's and movies that weren't broadcasted on networks to begin with. Over the years guidance rating have changed as well. There have been movies as an example that have been bumped from being Rated R to PG-13 and vise versa. If a title like Cowboy bebop was released today it would possibly be rated PG-13 or Teens 13 or older. Yes, that's true about the rating situation, but I didn't mention ratings in my post and neither did the OP. I get the sense he's referring more to style and thematic content. Ratings are primarily for governing access to sexually explicit content or explicit content in terms of graphic violence. You can have a complex and mature story which mainly appeals to older audiences without either of those things at all. If you are not taking in consideration the parental guidance then there are too many titles to even count that would be considered "adult anime". Whether they are put in high regards or not is completely subjective. The OP or anyone who feels the same as the OP should spend the time to explore more of what anime has to offer because there is more anime that has been released in the last decade then I could ever hope to consume. Unless all you do is watch anime constantly 24/7 it's hard to imagine anyone could keep up with everything being released these days. Mostly I have found picking titles out at random and keeping no expectations or reservations I find myself pleasantly surprised after watching something I wouldn't normally be inclined to be interested in. About half of the modern titles I have watched recently I have come to love. WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: To answer your question about the past decade only time will tell since it's too early to hold anything in high regards whether titles will hold up to the test of time. This is what I wanted to address in my post, although I may not have made myself clear. People say things to this effect often, but is it really true? I didn't start watching anime until 2016 and already in my 20s, but I've been on the internet since at least around 2001 - 2002 when I was in middle school and haven't been blind, deaf, and living under a rock. I was aware enough of trends in the popular culture - even in the minority/niche Western nerd/otaku culture as I was on the computer frequently, even if I didn't participate in fandoms and such myself for a lot of things. Some of the titles OP mentioned had a large degree of success, popularity, and a known following practically immediately or within a few years of when they aired. It didn't take 10 or 15 or 20 years to see a following arise for series like Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, or Lain. They had huge acclaim and a fan subculture very quickly. Certainly no more than past like five years. So at this point the series which aired in 2010 and 2011 have aired 11 and 10 years ago, respectively. Even 2015 is six years ago now. I think even that's enough time. I don't mean as to whether they'll stand the test of time in 50 or 100 years as we don't even know that for the other older ones, but to have the same degree of fandom, acclaim, and cult following and buzz for those who like those type of anime series as the older ones did after they aired. It didn't take until 2013 or something to see great enthusiasm and acclaim around Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Black Lagoon, etc. Some of the titles he mentioned I would argue were even more of a big deal closer to when they were released rather than now. The thing is you can't hold the same standard up to anything new being released. Everything is different now and we live in a completely different world then of that of the past. Which is why it could be a few decades till anyone could come to any conclusive judgement. Historically it was a matter of accessibility. Unless you lived in Japan, it wasn't easy to get your hands on a VHS tape of the hottest new anime. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were actually more popular then you realize back in the 90's. This was way before any social media or even cell phones being practical for social use. Mostly you were pretty lucky just to be carrying around a pager. When I was in college they would hold animation festivals where they would screen anime movies on the weekends once a month in the school auditorium. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were by far the most popular titles they would screen and it wasn't long after that some weekends would be sold out. A year later when Robot Carnival, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and Akira showing the same night it was almost impossible to get your hands on a ticket for the showings. It's trends like this that have defined classic anime in the western world where it was more of a privilege to get to see some of these titles people still today hold in high regards. |
Sep 16, 2021 7:36 PM
#29
Honestly, the only thing that changed is that you don't have to look gritty to deal with serious themes. A lot of these examples don't even explore their conflicts and themes more thoroughly than some of the cute fluff I watch. |
jal90Sep 16, 2021 7:39 PM
Sep 16, 2021 7:58 PM
#30
ColourWheel said: The thing is you can't hold the same standard up to anything new being released. Everything is different now and we live in a completely different world then of that of the past. Which is why it could be a few decades till anyone could come to any conclusive judgement. Historically it was a matter of accessibility. Unless you lived in Japan, it wasn't easy to get your hands on a VHS tape of the hottest new anime. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were actually more popular then you realize back in the 90's. This was way before any social media or even cell phones being practical for social use. Mostly you were pretty lucky just to be carrying around a pager. When I was in college they would hold animation festivals where they would screen anime movies on the weekends once a month in the school auditorium. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were by far the most popular titles they would screen and it wasn't long after that some weekends would be sold out. A year later when Robot Carnival, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and Akira showing the same night it was almost impossible to get your hands on a ticket for the showings. It's trends like this that have defined classic anime in the western world where it was more of a privilege to get to see some of these titles people still today hold in high regards. Yes, I was alive throughout most of the 1990s so I do remember most of that pre-internet and pre-modern technological saturation world even though I didn't know anime existed back then (except for Pokemon, but I only knew the show and franchise itself, not that it was an anime, as I had no frame of reference to know what anime was and only looked upon it as an 8 year-old as a different-looking cartoon with slightly different animation or art style/designs). Home internet usage was widely popularized for civilian PCs on the national scale with the advent of Windows 95 and even then it was more the domain of the white collar professional and upper middle class who would sometimes work from home or wanted to play with the latest new technology from home. The national connectivity average still had a ways to go statistically. My dad used a beeper and we still had the holdover of rotary telephones well into the 2000s, so I believe I had a thorough taste of the pre-21st century tech situation compared to now. I didn't get my first cell phone until 2009 when I was already out of high school - a "flip" phone and still am only on my second flip phone today. That probably continued to some extent until the mid-2000s before the debut of YouTube in 2006. Prior, even though I used the internet, it was all text-based internet forums and games. Music on LimeWire or Morpheus. I never watched TV series and films on the computer then and there weren't the major pirate streaming sites of today (at least that I was aware of), nor the legal ones. You had to be proficient in torrents and sourcing all that stuff from websites and hours-long downloads it was much less easy to find reliable information about, at least from what I knew at the time and anyone else I knew of in my school (the average kid/person was not tech-savvy). But are you saying that availability and saturation of the market is the reason there aren't as many series or films which are widely considered thematically in-depth one could name today or from the past 10 years with the same status as titles such as Ghost in the Shell, Akira, etc.? Because they don't get as recognized today due to being drowned and buried in a sea of content? So it's impossible for anything more modern to obtain the same level of popularity and recognition in its genre or field as older titles did due to more advanced technology and interconnectivity raising the bar too high or something of that nature? |
WatchTillTandavaSep 16, 2021 8:04 PM
Sep 16, 2021 8:24 PM
#31
WatchTillTandava said: But are you saying that availability and saturation of the market is the reason there aren't as many series or films which are widely considered thematically in-depth one could name today or from the past 10 years with the same status as titles in Ghost in the Shell, Akira, etc.? Because they don't get as recognized today due to being drowned and buried in a sea of content? So it's impossible for anything more modern to obtain the same level of popularity and recognition in its genre or field as older titles did due to more advanced technology and interconnectivity raising the bar too high or something of that nature? This could definitely be a contributing factor, but ultimately I don't have a definitive answer to this question. Right now it's not a matter of privilege to getting access to the latest anime as it was in the pre-2000's in the west. It's also possible that Anime communities around the world are less aware of how much they easily take for granted as of now. When I look at the stuff being released today it's no longer a matter of trying the find the best way to get my hands on the hottest stuff out but more a dilemma on deciding what I should invest my time in to watch next. It could be argued that anime has gotten so good now that it's extremely hard to decide which is the best to hold as some modern standard. When it comes to the point where there is more then you can possibly consume it's easy to over look things you might enjoy. |
Sep 16, 2021 8:41 PM
#32
ColourWheel said: WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: As you closely noted these were cherry picked titles over a time span of 22 years between them being from the late 80's to the mid 2000's. The problem I see about the entire premise of this debate is not all the titles listed were even originally targeted strictly towards adults to begin with. Some of these titles were initially unrated till the MPAA or what ever bureaucracy suddenly decided to rate them as R+. As a good example Cowboy bebop was never even rated till suddenly after the late 90's it became popular in the United States and someone suddenly noticed there was one scene in the series where naked breasts are shown briefly. I still have the original dvd set of the entire cowboy bebop series when it was 1st printed. Nowhere on it's cover sleeves or even on the discs does it have some parental guidance nor does it state anywhere claiming it to be unrated either. It wasn't till the early to mid 2000's we started seeing anime series being rated at all with the exception of OVA's and movies that weren't broadcasted on networks to begin with. Over the years guidance rating have changed as well. There have been movies as an example that have been bumped from being Rated R to PG-13 and vise versa. If a title like Cowboy bebop was released today it would possibly be rated PG-13 or Teens 13 or older. Yes, that's true about the rating situation, but I didn't mention ratings in my post and neither did the OP. I get the sense he's referring more to style and thematic content. Ratings are primarily for governing access to sexually explicit content or explicit content in terms of graphic violence. You can have a complex and mature story which mainly appeals to older audiences without either of those things at all. If you are not taking in consideration the parental guidance then there are too many titles to even count that would be considered "adult anime". Whether they are put in high regards or not is completely subjective. The OP or anyone who feels the same as the OP should spend the time to explore more of what anime has to offer because there is more anime that has been released in the last decade then I could ever hope to consume. Unless all you do is watch anime constantly 24/7 it's hard to imagine anyone could keep up with everything being released these days. Mostly I have found picking titles out at random and keeping no expectations or reservations I find myself pleasantly surprised after watching something I wouldn't normally be inclined to be interested in. About half of the modern titles I have watched recently I have come to love. WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: To answer your question about the past decade only time will tell since it's too early to hold anything in high regards whether titles will hold up to the test of time. This is what I wanted to address in my post, although I may not have made myself clear. People say things to this effect often, but is it really true? I didn't start watching anime until 2016 and already in my 20s, but I've been on the internet since at least around 2001 - 2002 when I was in middle school and haven't been blind, deaf, and living under a rock. I was aware enough of trends in the popular culture - even in the minority/niche Western nerd/otaku culture as I was on the computer frequently, even if I didn't participate in fandoms and such myself for a lot of things. Some of the titles OP mentioned had a large degree of success, popularity, and a known following practically immediately or within a few years of when they aired. It didn't take 10 or 15 or 20 years to see a following arise for series like Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, or Lain. They had huge acclaim and a fan subculture very quickly. Certainly no more than past like five years. So at this point the series which aired in 2010 and 2011 have aired 11 and 10 years ago, respectively. Even 2015 is six years ago now. I think even that's enough time. I don't mean as to whether they'll stand the test of time in 50 or 100 years as we don't even know that for the other older ones, but to have the same degree of fandom, acclaim, and cult following and buzz for those who like those type of anime series as the older ones did after they aired. It didn't take until 2013 or something to see great enthusiasm and acclaim around Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Black Lagoon, etc. Some of the titles he mentioned I would argue were even more of a big deal closer to when they were released rather than now. The thing is you can't hold the same standard up to anything new being released. Everything is different now and we live in a completely different world then of that of the past. Which is why it could be a few decades till anyone could come to any conclusive judgement. Historically it was a matter of accessibility. Unless you lived in Japan, it wasn't easy to get your hands on a VHS tape of the hottest new anime. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were actually more popular then you realize back in the 90's. This was way before any social media or even cell phones being practical for social use. Mostly you were pretty lucky just to be carrying around a pager. When I was in college they would hold animation festivals where they would screen anime movies on the weekends once a month in the school auditorium. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were by far the most popular titles they would screen and it wasn't long after that some weekends would be sold out. A year later when Robot Carnival, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and Akira showing the same night it was almost impossible to get your hands on a ticket for the showings. It's trends like this that have defined classic anime in the western world where it was more of a privilege to get to see some of these titles people still today hold in high regards. ColourWheel said: WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: As you closely noted these were cherry picked titles over a time span of 22 years between them being from the late 80's to the mid 2000's. The problem I see about the entire premise of this debate is not all the titles listed were even originally targeted strictly towards adults to begin with. Some of these titles were initially unrated till the MPAA or what ever bureaucracy suddenly decided to rate them as R+. As a good example Cowboy bebop was never even rated till suddenly after the late 90's it became popular in the United States and someone suddenly noticed there was one scene in the series where naked breasts are shown briefly. I still have the original dvd set of the entire cowboy bebop series when it was 1st printed. Nowhere on it's cover sleeves or even on the discs does it have some parental guidance nor does it state anywhere claiming it to be unrated either. It wasn't till the early to mid 2000's we started seeing anime series being rated at all with the exception of OVA's and movies that weren't broadcasted on networks to begin with. Over the years guidance rating have changed as well. There have been movies as an example that have been bumped from being Rated R to PG-13 and vise versa. If a title like Cowboy bebop was released today it would possibly be rated PG-13 or Teens 13 or older. Yes, that's true about the rating situation, but I didn't mention ratings in my post and neither did the OP. I get the sense he's referring more to style and thematic content. Ratings are primarily for governing access to sexually explicit content or explicit content in terms of graphic violence. You can have a complex and mature story which mainly appeals to older audiences without either of those things at all. If you are not taking in consideration the parental guidance then there are too many titles to even count that would be considered "adult anime". Whether they are put in high regards or not is completely subjective. The OP or anyone who feels the same as the OP should spend the time to explore more of what anime has to offer because there is more anime that has been released in the last decade then I could ever hope to consume. Unless all you do is watch anime constantly 24/7 it's hard to imagine anyone could keep up with everything being released these days. Mostly I have found picking titles out at random and keeping no expectations or reservations I find myself pleasantly surprised after watching something I wouldn't normally be inclined to be interested in. About half of the modern titles I have watched recently I have come to love. WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: To answer your question about the past decade only time will tell since it's too early to hold anything in high regards whether titles will hold up to the test of time. This is what I wanted to address in my post, although I may not have made myself clear. People say things to this effect often, but is it really true? I didn't start watching anime until 2016 and already in my 20s, but I've been on the internet since at least around 2001 - 2002 when I was in middle school and haven't been blind, deaf, and living under a rock. I was aware enough of trends in the popular culture - even in the minority/niche Western nerd/otaku culture as I was on the computer frequently, even if I didn't participate in fandoms and such myself for a lot of things. Some of the titles OP mentioned had a large degree of success, popularity, and a known following practically immediately or within a few years of when they aired. It didn't take 10 or 15 or 20 years to see a following arise for series like Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, or Lain. They had huge acclaim and a fan subculture very quickly. Certainly no more than past like five years. So at this point the series which aired in 2010 and 2011 have aired 11 and 10 years ago, respectively. Even 2015 is six years ago now. I think even that's enough time. I don't mean as to whether they'll stand the test of time in 50 or 100 years as we don't even know that for the other older ones, but to have the same degree of fandom, acclaim, and cult following and buzz for those who like those type of anime series as the older ones did after they aired. It didn't take until 2013 or something to see great enthusiasm and acclaim around Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Black Lagoon, etc. Some of the titles he mentioned I would argue were even more of a big deal closer to when they were released rather than now. The thing is you can't hold the same standard up to anything new being released. Everything is different now and we live in a completely different world then of that of the past. Which is why it could be a few decades till anyone could come to any conclusive judgement. Historically it was a matter of accessibility. Unless you lived in Japan, it wasn't easy to get your hands on a VHS tape of the hottest new anime. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were actually more popular then you realize back in the 90's. This was way before any social media or even cell phones being practical for social use. Mostly you were pretty lucky just to be carrying around a pager. When I was in college they would hold animation festivals where they would screen anime movies on the weekends once a month in the school auditorium. Ghost in the Shell and Akira were by far the most popular titles they would screen and it wasn't long after that some weekends would be sold out. A year later when Robot Carnival, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and Akira showing the same night it was almost impossible to get your hands on a ticket for the showings. It's trends like this that have defined classic anime in the western world where it was more of a privilege to get to see some of these titles people still today hold in high regards. I'm sorry, because this will inevitably come off as a bit rude. But how can you be sure that people need to just check more modern anime when they think that there has been a percentage decrease in certain kinds of tittles in comparison to the past, when you've seen almost no anime from that time period? You haven't even seen 100 titles from the first 53 out of 63 years of anime's existence, and you've seen less than 20 from the first 43 years. In comparison to well over 400 10s titles and over 100 from just the last few years. Certainly production has spiked in raw title number since around 2010, though it plummeted in 2019, mind you, but not to a degree where that's at all a representative sample size that you can use to make such judgements, and such a small amount just doesn't work no matter what production increase happened. And yes, you can probably say the same to thing to me in terms of my modern anime viewing, only a bit over 100 from the 10s out of 700ish, but I will note that I only count completed anime on my page, and drop tons, especially 10s and late 00s anime, but do make an effort to check out lots of newer anime anyways. This isn't about bragging rights or anything like that, I just don't think that you are in a position to make this kind of judgement. |
Sep 16, 2021 8:52 PM
#33
billybub said: WatchTillTandava said: ColourWheel said: DeepRiver said: What i mean by this, is that there seems to be a huge lack of more adult type projects, be it original or adaptations, with more mature tones/conflicts, and usually featuring an adult cast of characters, and with strong styles which were kind of popular and prominent back in the 80s, 90s and part of the 2000s, where it was also very popular the OVA format. But these kind of projects and days seems to be over or almost dead as of today, and i dont get it. Im talking about stuff like Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Appleseed, Jin Roh, Ninja Scroll, Seirei no Moribito, Area 88 Ovas, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black, Berserk, Vampire Hunter D, Ergo Proxy, Monster, Alita, Perfect Blue, Serial Experiment Lain, Redline and the likes. These kinds of projects were very recurrent during those times, but now is very lacking. Sure there has been some stuff like that recently like Vinland Saga, Odd Taxi or Dorohedoro. But these are very few and so far in between compared to everything else that gets released today. Nowadays 99% of release is either a random SOL, or a random Romcom, or a generic Isekai N.856346, or your current hype trending Shonen of the season. Is it there some explanation for this? What happened to a lot of the adult stuff? I agree with @Lunilah on their post that you looking at time span of almost over a 22 year time period. I started watching anime back in the early 90's and I haven't noticed any lack of adult type projects more so then noticing just more anime in general being produced where a majority of titles being released are trying to appeal to broader audiences. Pretty much anyone who has grown up watching anime for only the past decade has basically been spoiled with the amount of titles released compared to the previous two decades before it. Just as much adult theme projects are being produced today just there aren't as many being recognized compared to the previous last two decades. If anything more are being produced just they are being drowned out by other titles being constantly produced that target more broader audiences. This is probably why you would feel there is a lack of "adult anime" titles being produced. I'm curious as to what you would highlight as the best counter-examples in the past 10 1/2 or so years, say post-2009 (from 2010 onward) compared to some of the examples listed in the OP? I haven't formed a strong position on this yet, but I do hear this topic raised fairly frequently and I tend to lean toward thinking the OP is correct that they were significantly more prevalent then. Yes, he just named the most well-known and prominent ones because, obviously, that's what most people would do (and if he named more obscure titles if he indeed knows of them then it's possible that you, I, or other readers might not be familiar with those and have to check and look them up in the database), but he still listed a good 18 titles. Compared to the amount of anime produced both then and now, that isn't actually a lot as a raw number, but I wonder myself and am struggling to think if there are as many post-2009 major titles in the same vein. There's thematically comparably heavy and dark anime released every year and probably every season, maybe even moreso than then owing to the sheer volume of anime produced nowadays, but I wonder if they are generally regarded to be of the same caliber and quality as many of the example titles posted by the OP and whether they will have even remotely the same legacy. The legacy of most might not extend even past the year or season itself or even get off the ground in the first place. People will then say, "But that's true of the older series as well. You remember them because those are the ones which stood out and have a legacy in the first place", but even if that's true, what are the equivalent series of the past 11 years? Like, I agree those examples are cherry picked because they're the ones that stood the test of time, but the spirit of OP's post and similar thread topics like it seem to be raising the inquiry "Are there even as many series in the past decade or so which can compare to these?". Even if cherry picked, people should still be able to cherry pick counter-examples from the modern age that can stand toe to toe with the older series. Just off the top of my head Dorohedoro Jormungand Another Golden Kamuy Boogiepop Death Billiards Gangster Gosick The Monogatari series Shinsekai Yori Sonny Boy Idaten Tatami Galaxy and Ping Pong were also good efforts and they were quite divisive too. Lets not talk about Kaiba whose artstyle would deter even more from watching Good writing is seriously lacking or there is not an audience for it anymore. Perhaps the death of Satoshi Kon made his audience and reviewers stay away from anime. |
Sep 16, 2021 9:15 PM
#34
considering how Manglobe (Ergo Proxy, Michiko to Hatchin) went under even after producing shows that appeal to more mainstream audiences to save themselves (Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai, some seasons of Hayate no Gotoku) I can see why more adult-oriented shows aren't really produced much these days -- it's simply not profitable enough. also, in my opinion adult-oriented shows are more likely to have a harsher reception, since most of the audience watching are more critical and observant compared to people who watch the usual shounen/isekai/slice of life shows. shounen and fantasy shows would usually have a massive barrage of fanboys who'll love and support the show despite its obvious flaws, while mature-oriented shows aren't so lucky, which probably makes producers even more reluctant to produce such shows. all in all, let's just say I pity the noitaminA producer who had to shave his head after the failure of House of Five Leaves and The Tatami Galaxy. |
luminalitySep 16, 2021 9:23 PM
Sep 16, 2021 9:37 PM
#35
Reign_of_Floof said: I'm sorry, because this will inevitably come off as a bit rude. But how can you be sure that people need to just check more modern anime when they think that there has been a percentage decrease in certain kinds of tittles in comparison to the past, when you've seen almost no anime from that time period? You haven't even seen 100 titles from the first 53 out of 63 years of anime's existence, and you've seen less than 20 from the first 43 years. In comparison to well over 400 10s titles and over 100 from just the last few years. Certainly production has spiked in raw title number since around 2010, though it plummeted in 2019, mind you, but not to a degree where that's at all a representative sample size that you can use to make such judgements, and such a small amount just doesn't work no matter what production increase happened. And yes, you can probably say the same to thing to me in terms of my modern anime viewing, only a bit over 100 from the 10s out of 700ish, but I will note that I only count completed anime on my page, and drop tons, especially 10s and late 00s anime, but do make an effort to check out lots of newer anime anyways. This isn't about bragging rights or anything like that, I just don't think that you are in a position to make this kind of judgement. I was simply only making a suggestion was all. Wasn't telling anyone to do anything and not like I expect anyone to do anything I say to begin with. Even though I just recently joined this community this year I have been watching anime for well over 3 and half decades. You can't judge my experience of titles I have watched just from my MAL profile page alone because I am not going to actively search out every title I have ever seen since I was a kid all the way back to the early 80's. That would be a waste of my time. I know there are plenty of titles I seen in the last 3 decades and a half which I haven't gotten around to add to my list. Some simply because I never completely finished. I just stopped adding anything I already seen before because it was becoming more of a chore then it was worth. With this said I am not claiming to be some anime guru. So I apologize if my comments agitated you so. |
ColourWheelSep 16, 2021 9:41 PM
Sep 16, 2021 10:06 PM
#36
ColourWheel said: Reign_of_Floof said: I'm sorry, because this will inevitably come off as a bit rude. But how can you be sure that people need to just check more modern anime when they think that there has been a percentage decrease in certain kinds of tittles in comparison to the past, when you've seen almost no anime from that time period? You haven't even seen 100 titles from the first 53 out of 63 years of anime's existence, and you've seen less than 20 from the first 43 years. In comparison to well over 400 10s titles and over 100 from just the last few years. Certainly production has spiked in raw title number since around 2010, though it plummeted in 2019, mind you, but not to a degree where that's at all a representative sample size that you can use to make such judgements, and such a small amount just doesn't work no matter what production increase happened. And yes, you can probably say the same to thing to me in terms of my modern anime viewing, only a bit over 100 from the 10s out of 700ish, but I will note that I only count completed anime on my page, and drop tons, especially 10s and late 00s anime, but do make an effort to check out lots of newer anime anyways. This isn't about bragging rights or anything like that, I just don't think that you are in a position to make this kind of judgement. I was simply only making a suggestion was all. Wasn't telling anyone to do anything and not like I expect anyone to do anything I say to begin with. Even though I just recently joined this community this year I have been watching anime for well over 3 and half decades. You can't judge my experience of titles I have watched just from my MAL profile page alone because I am not going to actively search out every title I have ever seen since I was a kid all the way back to the early 80's. That would be a waste of my time. I know there are plenty of titles I seen in the last 3 decades and a half which I haven't gotten around to add to my list. Some simply because I never completely finished. I just stopped adding anything I already seen before because it was becoming more of a chore then it was worth. With this said I am not claiming to be some anime guru. So I apologize if my comments agitated you so. That's fair, sorry to be accusatory. I don't even consider adding anything I watched from before 2008 or so without revisiting, so I understand. Still, I don't buy the idea that someone would be wrong to think that the kind of anime OP listed are not as prevalent now as they were back then, that seems quite correct to me as someone who still actively watches anime from all eras consistently and pays close attention to what each year looked like even among title's I've yet to see, but can get information on. |
Sep 16, 2021 10:09 PM
#37
I'm curious also. Maybe audiences? |
Sep 16, 2021 10:27 PM
#38
I think we have a lot Adult or Seinen Manga right now, to say the authors lose their creativity right now is kinda wrong. If you want to blame someone, blame the studio guy and the TV guy, because they are full of shit, just adaptating the mid isekai Light Novel, because we have a lot Quality Resource from manga right now. "My dearest self with malice aforethought" and "Blood On the tracks" is adult manga and its pure Quality. But like i said, they keep adaptating shit. |
Sep 16, 2021 10:36 PM
#39
If you're talking about shows mostly geared towards an older audience, there's been a bunch that came out between the two sets of examples you gave.. Excluding everything from 2019-current and anything older than 2010, only going off my own list, and excluding anything specifically marked with the "shounen" tag or labeled as "PG-13" as much as possible. Also leaving out anything tagged "ecchi" cuz this shit will be long enough. (this'll likely contain some arguable choices): Katanagatari - 2010 Panty & Stocking - 2010 Senkou no Night Raid - 2010 Seikimatsu Occult Gakuin - 2010 Fate/Zero - 2011 Dantalian no Shoka - 2011 Kamisama Dolls - 2011 Mawaru Penguindrum - 2011 No.6 - 2011 Un-Go - 2011 Jormungand - 2012 Psycho-Pass - 2012 Btooom! - 2012 Zetman - 2012 Lupin the Third: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine - 2012 Kamisama no Inai Nichiyoubi - 2013 Space Dandy - 2014 Garo: Honoo no Kokuin -2014 Gokukoku no Brynhildr - 2014 Hitsugi no Chaika - 2014 Nobunaga the Fool - 2014 Aldnoah.Zero - 2014 Hamatora - 2014 Tokyo ESP - 2014 Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works - 2014 Shingeki no Bahamut: Genesis - 2014 Knights of Sidonia - 2014 Tokyo Ghoul - 2014 GATE - 2015 Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - 2015 Death Parade - 2015 Junketsu no Maria - 2015 Gangsta. - 2015 One Punch Man - 2015 Beautiful Bones - 2015 Overlord - 2015 Subete ga F ni Naru - 2015 Re:Zero - 2016 Bungou Stray Dogs - 2016 3-gatsu no Lion - 2016 91 Days - 2016 Drifters - 2016 Dimension W - 2016 Alderamin on the Sky - 2016 Shuumatsu no Izetta - 2016 Inuyashiki - 2017 Made in Abyss - 2017 Princess Principal - 2017 Re:Creators - 2017 Juuni Taisen - 2017 Fate/Apocrypha - 2017 Youjo Senki - 2017 Angolmois: Genkou Kassenki - 2018 Devilman: Crybaby - 2018 Double Decker! Doug & Kirill - 2018 Goblin Slayer - 2018 Golden Kamuy - 2018 Hakata Tonkotsu Ramens - 2018 Hinamatsuri - 2018 Kokkoku - 2018 Megalo Box - 2018 Fate/Extra: Last Encore - 2018 Grancrest Senki - 2018 |
FanofActionSep 16, 2021 10:46 PM
Sep 17, 2021 12:35 AM
#40
I think op's referring to the ones that really stand out and are unique. You can have mature, adult oriented and have above a 7.5 on MAL. But now, in a sea of very similar shows with pretty much the same art style now, its not really noticeable. A few modern ones stand out include Shinsekai Yori, Made in Abyss, and The Promised Neverland. Why does Evangelion stand out from the rest of the shounen genre? Its unconventional, innovative, abstract and experimental, it pocesses new things which hasn't been done or seen before. Like Ghost in the Shell had new and intriguing stuff about the future, as is with Lain, Texhnolyze, Ergo Proxy etc Berserk had dark, realistic stuff about how the world works, as is with Black Lagoon, Monster, Perfect Blue etc Its not just Seinen, other animes too, like Clannad, Air, 5 cm/s which had meaningful, realistic and in depth storylines |
removed-userSep 17, 2021 12:51 AM
Sep 17, 2021 12:45 AM
#41
Because "adult anime" doesn't sell well? Some of the franchises OP mentions - for example Ghost In The Shell and Vampire Hunter D got sequels mainly because they sold well in the west. PS I disagree with OP about Seirei no Moribito being example of "adult anime". Yes it's a bit more serious in tone but it's an adaption of a children's book (the first volume of a series). There are serious titles for kids too you know. |
alshuSep 17, 2021 12:53 AM
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