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badabass said: RobertBobert said: So, are you trying to prove it was a joke, but also trying to make fun of me as a "no-ship guy"? Seriously, you yourself prove the veracity of my comment, I don't even need to make any effort. Ah come now. You are the first one make a fun to me saying my comment sound like any shipping in 2021. What the heck was that bruh? Imagine know nothing but already say nonsense. Bruh, what? Lol, you already forgot that this was a response to your salty comment, no? What a selective memory. Also, I especially like the way you expect other people to read your mind and understand your "jokes" through this. And yep, the more you passively aggressively make excuses and make it personal, the more you prove my words once again. Continue. |
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| Man, those last minutes almost made me tear up. Onodera-sensei is the perfect example of what a good educator should aim to be. Also, theater atmosphere is known to be harsh and absurdly demanding but it isn't the damn army. In that sense, Tachibana-sensei's way of "teaching" is way more archaic than I was expecting. Pretty good episode overall. The way in how Ayako's eating disorder was handled felt disturbingly real and the addition of her backstory as well as her relationship with her loving sister to cement the basis of her character was simply perfect. On the other hand tho, I'm quite disappointed in this supposed group of close friends. Especially in Ayako's roommate, Sugimoto. I mean, "Class Representative" title and all that yet she didn't do anything to help a classmate in need. Not gonna lie, that left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. |
| They got me at 19:12, It's been a while since i cried, pain and suffering indeed. Their seiyuu's voice acting is soo accurate, i really feel it and made me tear up HAHA. 10/10 After that, I almost forgot about Watanabe's acting at 06:00, wow that was soo beautiful. |
YuyuichiAug 3, 2021 3:45 AM
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| When she was texting her sister & telling her all the foods made by her family that she wanted to eat ಥ﹏ಥ And her sister sensing that something was wrong with that comforting advice that if she’s having a hard time she could come home any time♡ That got me ಥ﹏ಥಥ﹏ಥ |
 ꕤ but i’ll probably remember over and over again you were there and everyone else was there — the day we all searched for just one thing ꕤ |
Marinate1016 said: Man this episode was so hard to watch. Aya going through an eating disorder and steadily declining was really painful, but what made me angrier was her teacher’s apathetic view towards it. “Weak women don’t make it in show business” like this is a 14-15 year old girl. Kids are so impressionable at that age and calling someone a fatty isn’t going to help them lose weight, it’s just going to create anxiety, stress and depression. Why not introduce some physical workouts into the class as a way of getting everyone in better shape? Some people shouldn’t be teachers. kaisap112 said: If you're going to address deadly illnesses that these environments, beauty standards and peer pressure cause, then actually address them. Actual bulimics use stuff like this as thinspiration material, this did nothing to educate anyone on why this is a horrific thing and a serious illness. I'm willing to take some of this back if future episodes do feature her relapsing under stress and getting professional help, but I sincerely doubt it. Somehow, I don't think there will be more addressed since Ayako is just a side character whose character consists of just low self esteem and bulimia. The most they showed was her sticking her fingers down her throat, I doubt they'd get into the nitty-gritty like hair loss, tooth decay and organ failure if they don't even show her red fingers, they just tell us they're red. At the same time, I think that'd be outside the scope of this show; it's not meant to be a realistic portrayal of ED, just an (admittedly decent) iteration of "showbiz chews up young girls and spits them out". The teacher who pushed Ayako suffers no consequences. She probably has her own issues and believes that she's "toughening up" the girls by subjecting them to this kind of treatment, and "weeding out" the weak ones who wouldn't be able to stand the abuse ironically perpetuated by women who'd been treated the same before and became embittered and vengeful, taking it out on whoever was available and couldn't talk back (like students or juniors). Yes, the girls should know what they're signing up for, but for a teacher who's supposed to pay close attention to the physical health of her students, this one was awful at her job. She didn't notice for months that Ayako was looking haggard, then had no clue what to do when she realized that her student had developed bulimia, and ultimately decided...to do nothing. Not even call outside help. She even told the other teachers not to intervene At least Onodera tried to help her somehow, even if he wasn't equipped to do it. The other teacher didn't even try. Someone else mentioned it higher up, but this is a problem with media in general: when disorders aren't the focus of the show, they get treated superficially and everything gets solved with a "ganbatte". Which sends the message that the person suffering from said disorder was weak-minded or weak-willed and the disorder is superficial enough to be fixed with a short pep talk. |
pandemonium91 said: Marinate1016 said: Man this episode was so hard to watch. Aya going through an eating disorder and steadily declining was really painful, but what made me angrier was her teacher’s apathetic view towards it. “Weak women don’t make it in show business” like this is a 14-15 year old girl. Kids are so impressionable at that age and calling someone a fatty isn’t going to help them lose weight, it’s just going to create anxiety, stress and depression. Why not introduce some physical workouts into the class as a way of getting everyone in better shape? Some people shouldn’t be teachers. kaisap112 said: If you're going to address deadly illnesses that these environments, beauty standards and peer pressure cause, then actually address them. Actual bulimics use stuff like this as thinspiration material, this did nothing to educate anyone on why this is a horrific thing and a serious illness. I'm willing to take some of this back if future episodes do feature her relapsing under stress and getting professional help, but I sincerely doubt it. Somehow, I don't think there will be more addressed since Ayako is just a side character whose character consists of just low self esteem and bulimia. The most they showed was her sticking her fingers down her throat, I doubt they'd get into the nitty-gritty like hair loss, tooth decay and organ failure if they don't even show her red fingers, they just tell us they're red. At the same time, I think that'd be outside the scope of this show; it's not meant to be a realistic portrayal of ED, just an (admittedly decent) iteration of "showbiz chews up young girls and spits them out". The teacher who pushed Ayako suffers no consequences. She probably has her own issues and believes that she's "toughening up" the girls by subjecting them to this kind of treatment, and "weeding out" the weak ones who wouldn't be able to stand the abuse ironically perpetuated by women who'd been treated the same before and became embittered and vengeful, taking it out on whoever was available and couldn't talk back (like students or juniors). Yes, the girls should know what they're signing up for, but for a teacher who's supposed to pay close attention to the physical health of her students, this one was awful at her job. She didn't notice for months that Ayako was looking haggard, then had no clue what to do when she realized that her student had developed bulimia, and ultimately decided...to do nothing. Not even call outside help. She even told the other teachers not to intervene At least Onodera tried to help her somehow, even if he wasn't equipped to do it. The other teacher didn't even try. Someone else mentioned it higher up, but this is a problem with media in general: when disorders aren't the focus of the show, they get treated superficially and everything gets solved with a "ganbatte". Which sends the message that the person suffering from said disorder was weak-minded or weak-willed and the disorder is superficial enough to be fixed with a short pep talk. Not necessary. Sometimes you really need willpower and a positive attitude to beat the disease. I am studying to be a psychologist and I have suffered from clinical depression several times, I know how it happens. Of course, you will not defeat bulimia or depression with an effort of will, but the desire to defeat the disease is already half way. As for the fact that if illness is not the central theme of the show, then it is shown superficially, then this is logical. It's kind of weird to hear this when many shows are actually accused of spending too much time on side-character issues (hello Polnarev!) |
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RobertBobert said: Not necessary. Sometimes you really need willpower and a positive attitude to beat the disease. I am studying to be a psychologist and I have suffered from clinical depression several times, I know how it happens. Of course, you will not defeat bulimia or depression with an effort of will, but the desire to defeat the disease is already half way. As for the fact that if illness is not the central theme of the show, then it is shown superficially, then this is logical. It's kind of weird to hear this when many shows are actually accused of spending too much time on side-character issues (hello Polnarev!) Well, yes, but willpower and a positive attitude aren't the ONLY things you need when overcoming such a disorder. Yes, rarely people do "snap out of it", but I don't think it'd work long-term here. For once, Ayako would still be around that female teacher, who wouldn't be mincing her words. And if the crisis was bad enough to last for months, a pep talk may only be a temporary boost. Ayako is still the last in her class, after all, and this doesn't get fixed just because she's happier. She will continue to be exposed to her triggers without any coping mechanisms in place for them, and a relapse or breakdown are very likely. Recovering her voice 100% (and we're talking singer level, not just speaking) so soon after months of binging and purging plus laryngitis (?) simply doesn't happen. She would need to miss classes, rest her voice, and follow a diet to get back to normal weight if she's not around that level. All that doesn't get fixed with just a pep talk, as much as her mood is lifted. Of course, this is a type of anime which I'm not expecting any kind of portrayal of disorders that's deeper than surface level, from. I'd bet the creators looked up "eating disorder" online and picked one that shows up commonly among performers, without looking too deeply into it. |
pandemonium91 said: RobertBobert said: Not necessary. Sometimes you really need willpower and a positive attitude to beat the disease. I am studying to be a psychologist and I have suffered from clinical depression several times, I know how it happens. Of course, you will not defeat bulimia or depression with an effort of will, but the desire to defeat the disease is already half way. As for the fact that if illness is not the central theme of the show, then it is shown superficially, then this is logical. It's kind of weird to hear this when many shows are actually accused of spending too much time on side-character issues (hello Polnarev!) Well, yes, but willpower and a positive attitude aren't the ONLY things you need when overcoming such a disorder. Yes, rarely people do "snap out of it", but I don't think it'd work long-term here. For once, Ayako would still be around that female teacher, who wouldn't be mincing her words. And if the crisis was bad enough to last for months, a pep talk may only be a temporary boost. Ayako is still the last in her class, after all, and this doesn't get fixed just because she's happier. She will continue to be exposed to her triggers without any coping mechanisms in place for them, and a relapse or breakdown are very likely. Recovering her voice 100% (and we're talking singer level, not just speaking) so soon after months of binging and purging plus laryngitis (?) simply doesn't happen. She would need to miss classes, rest her voice, and follow a diet to get back to normal weight if she's not around that level. All that doesn't get fixed with just a pep talk, as much as her mood is lifted. Of course, this is a type of anime which I'm not expecting any kind of portrayal of disorders that's deeper than surface level, from. I'd bet the creators looked up "eating disorder" online and picked one that shows up commonly among performers, without looking too deeply into it. I never said that this is the only thing that you need, and even specifically mentioned it in the second paragraph. I know perfectly well that "huh, you're just lazy" is one of the main reasons for the devaluation of psychological problems. But the doctor will not be able to help you if you do not want it yourself, especially if you are in the phase when you feel like a victim and fully expect help from others. Sometimes I even regret that my mother was very overprotective in my childhood, because of this I did not develop a sense of independence to the extent necessary. But again, we are talking about a side character that is used by the authors to demonstrate the possible problems of people who want to become successful artists, what's the problem? I am not against studying such problems, especially since I myself have complexes due to being overweight, but I find it strange complaints that Ai and Sarasa do not do this instead of their personal problems and goals. |
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RobertBobert said: I never said that this is the only thing that you need, and even specifically mentioned it in the second paragraph. I know perfectly well that "huh, you're just lazy" is one of the main reasons for the devaluation of psychological problems. But the doctor will not be able to help you if you do not want it yourself, especially if you are in the phase when you feel like a victim and fully expect help from others. Sometimes I even regret that my mother was very overprotective in my childhood, because of this I did not develop a sense of independence to the extent necessary. But again, we are talking about a side character that is used by the authors to demonstrate the possible problems of people who want to become successful artists, what's the problem? I am not against studying such problems, especially since I myself have complexes due to being overweight, but I find it strange complaints that Ai and Sarasa do not do this instead of their personal problems and goals. I was adding to what you said, not refuting it. I don't understand what you mean by the second paragraph. Are you saying that it's weird that Ai and Sarasa don't have eating disorders too? I never said anything about Ai or Sarasa. I also said that Ayako's character revolves around her self esteem and bulimia, and since she's a side character I think this is the end of the ED arc of the show. I don't know what this "problem" you're referring to is. |
pandemonium91 said: RobertBobert said: I never said that this is the only thing that you need, and even specifically mentioned it in the second paragraph. I know perfectly well that "huh, you're just lazy" is one of the main reasons for the devaluation of psychological problems. But the doctor will not be able to help you if you do not want it yourself, especially if you are in the phase when you feel like a victim and fully expect help from others. Sometimes I even regret that my mother was very overprotective in my childhood, because of this I did not develop a sense of independence to the extent necessary. But again, we are talking about a side character that is used by the authors to demonstrate the possible problems of people who want to become successful artists, what's the problem? I am not against studying such problems, especially since I myself have complexes due to being overweight, but I find it strange complaints that Ai and Sarasa do not do this instead of their personal problems and goals. I was adding to what you said, not refuting it. I don't understand what you mean by the second paragraph. Are you saying that it's weird that Ai and Sarasa don't have eating disorders too? I never said anything about Ai or Sarasa. I also said that Ayako's character revolves around her self esteem and bulimia, and since she's a side character I think this is the end of the ED arc of the show. I don't know what this "problem" you're referring to is. My point is that it is pointless to complain that this issue is not getting much focus, since this is a side character's subplot. |
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RobertBobert said: My point is that it is pointless to complain that this issue is not getting much focus, since this is a side character's subplot. The whole discussion has been about how an ED is portrayed, how realistic or not that is, and what the limitations of the show are. IMO it's not pointless if it leads to a discussion where more people are informed about how a disorder manifests. |
pandemonium91 said: RobertBobert said: My point is that it is pointless to complain that this issue is not getting much focus, since this is a side character's subplot. The whole discussion has been about how an ED is portrayed, how realistic or not that is, and what the limitations of the show are. IMO it's not pointless if it leads to a discussion where more people are informed about how a disorder manifests. Perhaps, but then again, why complaints? Why can't you just write "the show brought up an interesting topic, let's talk about it more broadly here"? This show also showed quite subtly through the example of Ai (one of the main characters, by the way) how problematic bias against a whole gender can be due to past traumatic interactions, but for some reason people not only do not complain about it, no, some even non-ironically justifies it, lol. |
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RobertBobert said: Perhaps, but then again, why complaints? Why can't you just write "the show brought up an interesting topic, let's talk about it more broadly here"? This show also showed quite subtly through the example of Ai (one of the main characters, by the way) how problematic bias against a whole gender can be due to past traumatic interactions, but for some reason people not only do not complain about it, no, some even non-ironically justifies it, lol. I don't see critiquing a piece of media as "complaining". Agree to disagree. Look in the threads for the other episodes, people have complained about Ai's trauma. I even talked with a dude about it in the thread for episode 1. |
kaisap112 said: Marinate1016 said: Man this episode was so hard to watch. Aya going through an eating disorder and steadily declining was really painful, but what made me angrier was her teacher’s apathetic view towards it. “Weak women don’t make it in show business” like this is a 14-15 year old girl. Kids are so impressionable at that age and calling someone a fatty isn’t going to help them lose weight, it’s just going to create anxiety, stress and depression. Why not introduce some physical workouts into the class as a way of getting everyone in better shape? Some people shouldn’t be teachers. Luckily, we got the juxtaposition of a bad teacher with a good teacher. Onodera-sensei was exactly what Aya needed in that moment and I think without him, she would’ve offed herself. Great episode, love how this series handles these topics Unfortunately, the show missed the mark with this ED depiction. Bulimia is incredibly addicting: you don't just do it for months and then "get over it" with no consequences or rewiring of the brain. If future episodes in no way show that there's lasting effects and they seriously try to claim "she just needed some pressure from a teacher and she magically got completely better!" then it was an after-school PSA that will more likely encourage people to try it. Flat stomach (which isn't a thing with bulimia for various reasons) and no permanent effects other than weight loss you get complimented for? What downsides? And what the hell is with these teachers, who work in a high-pressure school for performers? The male ex-ballerina teacher even pointed out that the girl's fingers were getting visibly red (thanks, stomach acids). The fatty-commenter's first response was a damn food log?! Directly after going "good job for losing weight"?! If Aya had "just" been anorectic and her bones sticking out, the teacher probably would've applauded her and seen nothing to worry about. For supposed professionals of the field, these idiots had no actual plan or healthcare professionals involved in preventing or treating eating disorder behavior in a private boarding school for the arts - those places are riddled with eating disorders across the globe! The doctor taking no note of a famously demanding school and a 15-year-old rapidly losing weight, plus acid-damaged fingers and throat symptoms on top of fainting in class? Excuse me? The "good teacher" was just as bad as the rest. Oh, you're concerned about this sensitive girl who's having health problems? Time to put her on the spot with a solo that will highlight and worsen all of these issues! Then not say a damn thing to the doctor when your entire faculty room has been openly discussing that "hey maybe we should do something about this binging and purging behavior". Not even to the girl herself! Man, what do all these people in the real world go into ED treatment for years for, most with relapses, when all you need is someone to bang on your door and yell at you that you're special? A full-time bulimic doesn't regain a smooth high singing voice after less than 24 hours of not puking. That's not how any of this works. Having her suddenly die from a ruptured esophagus would actually have been more realistic than this "you should try bulimia for four months, it's great for weight loss and nothing else about your health will change!" nonsense. If you're going to address deadly illnesses that these environments, beauty standards and peer pressure cause, then actually address them. Actual bulimics use stuff like this as thinspiration material, this did nothing to educate anyone on why this is a horrific thing and a serious illness. I'm willing to take some of this back if future episodes do feature her relapsing under stress and getting professional help, but I sincerely doubt it. Finally a critical comment that isn't swept by anime BS believing anything thrown at the audience. This is the kind of stuff that I generally dislike in both shonen and shoujo demographic, portraying adults as complete idiots that can't even scratch their own butts, but somehow they got into high places in their own jobs by nothing more than magic in BS writing. I was truly expecting either the dance teacher to jump in a confront on Yamada as soon as she notice the obvious problems. Profesional teachers in such a highly skilled and most likely also costly school will keep an eye on health issues like these. Same thing goes for the music teacher, he had plenty of opportunities to jump in and help out Yamada, before they got to the doctor, at the doctor's office and also on their long walk home, but for contrived reasons, he just kept shut. Even his rant behind doors is a bit ambiguous because he doesn't adress the bullimia problem but just disguises it by speaking about Yamada's beautiful voice. If Yamada had gotten the wrong idea that she should keep on with her unhealthy routine and try to sing in that poorly shaped condition it would had been way worse. And also the big issue you pointed out about calling quits with just an inspirational anime rant, I totally agree with you, getting rid of such an eating disorder like Yamada's isn't as easy as that and solve it within a day or two. kaisap112 actually made a very thorough but consice writeup about bulimia that really doesn't have much to do with your comment. You could either try to read part of it and get a better view of a problem solved with cheap rushed anime logic, or you know, just enclose your self and think you're absolutely right on anime BS. Ignorance is a bliss as they say. |
KimurahAug 3, 2021 6:48 PM
| Man, Im freaking glad for Ayako! Also for Ai-chan, her new hair is great. |
My Candies:              |
| fuckk this was so hard to watch. especially aya and her bulimia scenes, singing teacher with the piano was an absolute lad tho love him. |
| God Bless Onodera sensei. Finally someone in the anime outside of Sarasa who is not a complete piece of shit. |
| Listen to my podcast https://anchor.fm/waifusandweeaboos Follow my twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/sorasensei1 Spring 2024 Waifus on Profile "You can have multiple Waifus" -me |
kaisap112 said: Marinate1016 said: Man this episode was so hard to watch. Aya going through an eating disorder and steadily declining was really painful, but what made me angrier was her teacher’s apathetic view towards it. “Weak women don’t make it in show business” like this is a 14-15 year old girl. Kids are so impressionable at that age and calling someone a fatty isn’t going to help them lose weight, it’s just going to create anxiety, stress and depression. Why not introduce some physical workouts into the class as a way of getting everyone in better shape? Some people shouldn’t be teachers. Luckily, we got the juxtaposition of a bad teacher with a good teacher. Onodera-sensei was exactly what Aya needed in that moment and I think without him, she would’ve offed herself. Great episode, love how this series handles these topics Unfortunately, the show missed the mark with this ED depiction. Bulimia is incredibly addicting: you don't just do it for months and then "get over it" with no consequences or rewiring of the brain. If future episodes in no way show that there's lasting effects and they seriously try to claim "she just needed some pressure from a teacher and she magically got completely better!" then it was an after-school PSA that will more likely encourage people to try it. Flat stomach (which isn't a thing with bulimia for various reasons) and no permanent effects other than weight loss you get complimented for? What downsides? And what the hell is with these teachers, who work in a high-pressure school for performers? The male ex-ballerina teacher even pointed out that the girl's fingers were getting visibly red (thanks, stomach acids). The fatty-commenter's first response was a damn food log?! Directly after going "good job for losing weight"?! If Aya had "just" been anorectic and her bones sticking out, the teacher probably would've applauded her and seen nothing to worry about. For supposed professionals of the field, these idiots had no actual plan or healthcare professionals involved in preventing or treating eating disorder behavior in a private boarding school for the arts - those places are riddled with eating disorders across the globe! The doctor taking no note of a famously demanding school and a 15-year-old rapidly losing weight, plus acid-damaged fingers and throat symptoms on top of fainting in class? Excuse me? The "good teacher" was just as bad as the rest. Oh, you're concerned about this sensitive girl who's having health problems? Time to put her on the spot with a solo that will highlight and worsen all of these issues! Then not say a damn thing to the doctor when your entire faculty room has been openly discussing that "hey maybe we should do something about this binging and purging behavior". Not even to the girl herself! Man, what do all these people in the real world go into ED treatment for years for, most with relapses, when all you need is someone to bang on your door and yell at you that you're special? A full-time bulimic doesn't regain a smooth high singing voice after less than 24 hours of not puking. That's not how any of this works. Having her suddenly die from a ruptured esophagus would actually have been more realistic than this "you should try bulimia for four months, it's great for weight loss and nothing else about your health will change!" nonsense. If you're going to address deadly illnesses that these environments, beauty standards and peer pressure cause, then actually address them. Actual bulimics use stuff like this as thinspiration material, this did nothing to educate anyone on why this is a horrific thing and a serious illness. I'm willing to take some of this back if future episodes do feature her relapsing under stress and getting professional help, but I sincerely doubt it. Quite a few shows this season have completely missed the mark when dealing with serious issues. I should be used to this by now, but it's always just bizarre. |
| Finally Aya's case is solved. What she was doing to lose weight and what made her do that was really bothering me. That teacher is such a bitch. Being a teacher she shouldn't encourage a 14-15 years old kid to diet when they're at a growing age. Doing that wouldn't make one lose weight in a healthy way but instead that'll just make them really exhausted and cause health issues. Why don't they have fitness trainer for the students? All the students should be doing cardio workout to stay fit and lose weight. The music teacher is nice. But he should've taken action sooner than wait till Aya fainted. Ai is growing out her hair but the short hair looked really nice on her. |
Rickydory123Aug 16, 2021 12:09 AM
| Woah. As someone suffering from ED, seeing it in Animes was something I wasn't prepared for. I'm kinda glad it's not as taboo as I though it was for japanese (ngl, most of them daily starve themself to lose weight). That was a sensible cord for me and I am a bit disturbed at "how easy" she recovered from it, but bless that singer sensei for his words. That was really a beautiful episode. |
  ______________【 A W C 】 【 M u s i c 】______________ |
| The piano guy's speech was just insanely beautiful. Words with a lot of meaning behind them. Thanks to him, Yamade is back in the game. Everything felt a bit off but the ending was done well. |
   “You yourself have to change first, or nothing will change for you!” ' |
| Yamada sure is taking a beating. I'm so so so glad she had that support to keep going though. Gosh support is so much more important than we give credit for sometimes. |
| Nice fresh new hairstyle Narata got there and wholesome seeing her try to be close to Sarasa. Its frustrating seeing Tachibana-sensei validate her calling Yamada fatty causing the latter to gain bulimia and the former doing jack sh*t to help out. Onodera-sensei truly is a mvp for worrying about her health and not being harsh at all but supportive instead. |
 |
| I don't like Yamada. She's boring and weak. I wish they throw her ass out. But i really like her sister. |
| I 100% agree that the handling of the eating disorder left a lot to be desired. Maybe because it's more common in show business, professionals may pay more attention to people having eating disorders, but unfortunately I've heard of elite schools in other fields where the staff mostly disregards it and isn't trained at all to deal with these issues, even though they are more common in schools with high levels of pressure. |
| As a melodrama this was good but as a potrayal of someone battling their eating disorder this was kind of hilarious since it went with the typical anime speech of "you can get through it!" |
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