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[MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD] As much as I adore and respect Fruba's author, the way she handled the Kyoko & Katsuya relationship made me very disappointed for a reason that is important to bring up

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Jun 29, 2021 9:49 AM
#1

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Kyoko was a 14 years old girl and Katsuya a 22 years old guy working for Kyoko's school, as a teacher's assistant. That's the general description of their relationship - it sounds bad straight away, and it's made worse by the fact that Katsuya gets Kyoko pregnant at around 15-16. To top it all off, Kyoko's domestic situation was deplorable and violent, and the reason why she got herself involved in criminal gangs. Katsuya knew all this.

But none of this is the problem that I'm talking about. No, the relationship doesn't get worse - the problem is Katsuya is an actual saint. Katsuya made Kyoko's life better, he emotionally supported her out of an impossible situation, and made her feel loved in a sincere and beautiful way. There was nothing wrong with their actual relationship. This is disturbing. It doesn't play out like that in real life. I'm 24, and I can guarantee you guys around my age NEVER go after 14 years old girls with pure intentions. The guys that do this are predatory, rotten and wholly trying to take advantage of girls, either to groom them or to rape them (because let's not forget that minors can't give consent to sexual relationships with adults).

So here's where I've seen the argument, "It's just fiction." Hmm. For you maybe, a fellow adult reading this story and being able to easily get past the weirdness in favor of the otherwise normal relationship.

But Fruba was published in the manga magazine Hana to Yume, read majorly by females (95%), most of which are minors (66%). To begin with, in Japan minors cannot freely give consent to sexual relationships with adults until they are 20 years old. When the Kyoko backstory dropped, Fruba was mainstream both in Japan and outside of it, becoming one of the first manga to accomplish something like that. Natsuki Takaya is an author that very consistently utilized her Hana to Yume platform for more than entertainment - Fruba portrays child abuse, domestic violence and the loss of parents in very realistic ways. Her storytelling always aimed to convey the message that these situation can be overcame, and showed us how using equally realistic characters.

So I think the author betrayed this integrity during the Katsuya & Kyoko relationship. She showed her mostly female teenage audience a completely inappropriate relationship, and glorified it. She never showed the cons of this type of relationship. Kyoko only second-guesses Katsuya's intentions once for a joke. We never get to hear what's even going through Katsuya's mind. The author wrote the age gap, then ignored the meaning of it. And I believe real Japanese girls the same age as Kyoko, who idolized Fruba and the author, wouldn't react as "This is obviously bad, this is just fiction, let's just ignore the age gap". Natsuki Takaya had a fantastic reputation and following, so it's perfectly possible that her younger readers could've been mislead by her to think that adults who come on to them, can have beautiful and pure romantic intentions... when this is never ever the case in real life. So let's not use the "it's fiction" argument because teenagers don't interpret literature that way, and they can by all means be negatively influenced by a story of an author they love, or mislead into having unrealistic expectations, then more easily fall for the manipulation of predatory men who act like saints as Katsuya did.

I agree on what others have suggested to bring Katsuya's age down and make him Kyoko's highscool senpai. That would make Kyoko 14 to 15 and Katsuya 16 to 17 (depending on their birthdays). I think fixing the ages would set a good precedent for new shoujo adaptations, since the label is plagued with bad age gaps. Fruba 2019 was a financial success that will most likely motivate other shoujo magazines to remake or reboot their incomplete anime, and Hana to Yume has the chance to set a good example here.
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Jun 29, 2021 10:08 AM
#2
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Sep 2019
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When I saw your title, I was a bit taken back but after reading your essay, your points are valid. Even tho fiction is fiction, we tend to forget that sometimes and for impressionable young girls, the lines are even more blurred and that puts them in a vulnerable spot.
Cheers to you for pointing it out \(^ヮ^)/
Jun 29, 2021 10:09 AM
#3
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I agree with you @Rojaseb. Any piece of media isn’t consumed in a vacuum, and the portrayal of this relationship as a positive one could be damaging to young girls. I know from my own experiences growing up that male teachers in my middle and highschool attempted to groom myself and other students. Nothing bad happened because we knew that it was bad and to stay away, but imagine if we were hopeful that we would have a magical, shoujo type romance!!
Jun 29, 2021 10:38 AM
#4
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Apr 2021
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Nicely said. I have been thinking about this myself, and Katsuya as an older student could be a good solution. Though I suppose any change still changes other parts of the story. I had previously wondered about aging Kyoko up a couple years (16 is more realistic as a gang leader anyway lol) and making him still a university student (like 18/19) so by the time Tohru is born he can support the family with a proper teaching job.
ashley5891Jun 29, 2021 10:41 AM
Jun 29, 2021 11:09 AM
#5
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Feb 2016
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You are absolutely right and you should say it. To be honest the age gaps have always made me uncomfortable.
Jun 29, 2021 12:14 PM
#6
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Jul 2014
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yep to all of this, I would've preferred they just get it over with in the final season but the fact it's getting its own adaption is so blegh, especially since the main issue is with how it's written and this relationship almost feels OOC for the writing so far which was enlightened in viewing unfortunate circumstances though it only gets worse bc it's not the only relationship with age gap in fruba thats been mentioned unfortunately. this aspect is truly my one gripe with the series
Jun 29, 2021 12:23 PM
#7

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kanesans said:
this aspect is truly my one gripe with the series


I relate to this a lot, Fruba is my favorite anime but Kyoko/Katsuya and Arisa/Kureno (which is a major parallel) disappoints me because of what I came to expect from the author, you know? These types of things are not new to anime, but I also have no respect for anime that focus on doing shit like this, so I don't get upset over it and simply avoid anime like that. But for Fruba it was something that was 100% unnecessary for the story and the author randomly decided to add it.

Kureno for example, could've been the same age as Akito or Ritsu - there was no point whatsoever in making him so old, he was never even friends with the Shigure gang.
Jun 29, 2021 2:25 PM
#8

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any % speedrun on getting cancelled
Jun 29, 2021 2:36 PM
#9

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You raise an interesting point. Maybe when the manga originally released, Katsuya and Kyoko's relationship was really a "bad influence".

But nowadays (and I'm changing to nowadays bc the movie will be released in 2022) I wouldn't think so. I I mean, teens are smarter than ever, the access to technology and knowledge is easier than ever, so I believe most teenage girls would understand that such relationship wouldn't work out in real life. That only because an anime showed it as a love story, it doesn't mean it could become real.

I first read Furuba when I was 12 years old back in 2006 and I never thought a relationship with that age gap, and between a teacher and a student to top that, would be okay in real life. I know very well my experience is not universal, of course. Maybe I was just lucky that I had that notion already? I was raised on Furuba, CLAMP and Kaori Yuki mangas (which means tons of fictional age gap and incest), so I learned to separate fiction from reality really early.

So yeah I think the point you raised is valid and I understand why this relationship would make people uncomfortable and I totally get it if people choose not to watch this movie, even if their age gap doesn't bother me personally.
Jun 29, 2021 3:44 PM

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raifuresu said:

But nowadays (and I'm changing to nowadays bc the movie will be released in 2022) I wouldn't think so. I I mean, teens are smarter than ever, the access to technology and knowledge is easier than ever, so I believe most teenage girls would understand that such relationship wouldn't work out in real life. That only because an anime showed it as a love story, it doesn't mean it could become real.


You know I was thinking a lot about this point too as I tried to reach a conclusion on this matter. And I think you might be interested in this argument.

Let's say they adapt the relationship as it is, regardless of whether it will negatively influence kids or not. What is the point? Is it really entertaining to watch it? Since people like Katsuya don't exist in the real world and they're all predators, what's the purpose of fantasizing with a guy like Katsuya? Is it interesting to see a girl and an adult fall in love? Is it interesting that Katsuya gets a 15yo girl pregnant? What exactly is the appeal of this piece of fiction that is depicting several crimes? It's forbidden love for a reason - it's illegal and unhealthy.

Do you happen to know Dexter? The series about the serial killer that kills killers. Well, for me the romance between Kyoko and Katsuya would be like Dexter killing good, normal people, for no particular reason other than the fact that he's a psychopath. Just him killing normal people for 8 seasons. What would be the point of watching fiction about a hideous crime with no social commentary on it whatsoever?
RojasebJun 29, 2021 3:47 PM
Jun 29, 2021 4:25 PM

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I mean, I myself aren't that bothered by the age-gap, it's just when and how they met, if she was 20 and he was 28 or if they were the typical highschool crush students, then it would've been better.

I am just interested to see how things will turn out in the end because it IS very vital to understand more of Tohru's character and why Katsuya was so important in their lives.

And back then, maybe the age-gap and the type of relationship wasn't frowned upon, but because of recent years (2010 til now), people have become incredibly sensitive and would cancel anything that makes them uncomfortable, people have mentioned some users at TikTok are planning to cancel this series just because of the "toxic" relationship. That's why I am worried over the fact it's going to be adapted in this era, this modern year, due to how sensitive many people are. Maybe it should've been left in the manga because I can imagine Twitter EXPLODING once this air.

And why I am not bothered by the age-gap? It is because my father is 18 and a half years older than my step-mother, I am not too bothered by it now.
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Jun 29, 2021 4:31 PM

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Rojaseb said:

You know I was thinking a lot about this point too as I tried to reach a conclusion on this matter. And I think you might be interested in this argument.

Let's say they adapt the relationship as it is, regardless of whether it will negatively influence kids or not. What is the point? Is it really entertaining to watch it? Since people like Katsuya don't exist in the real world and they're all predators, what's the purpose of fantasizing with a guy like Katsuya? Is it interesting to see a girl and an adult fall in love? Is it interesting that Katsuya gets a 15yo girl pregnant? What exactly is the appeal of this piece of fiction that is depicting several crimes? It's forbidden love for a reason - it's illegal and unhealthy.

Do you happen to know Dexter? The series about the serial killer that kills killers. Well, for me the romance between Kyoko and Katsuya would be like Dexter killing good, normal people, for no particular reason other than the fact that he's a psychopath. Just him killing people for 8 seasons. What would be the point of watching fiction about a hideous crime with no social commentary on it?


Interesting view. But I admit I don't get the part about "what's the purpose of fantasizing with a guy like Katsuya" because fantasizing doesn't need a purpose. You're allowed to idealize and fantasize about whatever you want, and teenagers do that a lot, like fantasizing about idols and celebs who are often older than them.

I find their story entertaining because I like the characters and the way it's written. As I said, I don't personally mind their age gap, it's something I am able to ignore. And their story is, to me, very emotional and has brought me to tears a lot of times. Because I see two characters that I consider well written (Kyoko more than Katsuya) and who I got attached to. It works for me. I'm sure some people like it for the "forbidden love" aspect too. Not my case tho.

I know Dexter, and I get where you were going with this comparison, but I don't really feel the same. Do you know Hannibal? The NBC series. We follow Will's story as he is slowly corrupted by Hannibal. Their relationship is totally messed up. Hannibal murders a lot of people for no reason other than they were rude to him and he wants to eat them. Unless you consider "don't be an asshole to people" a social commentary, there's nothing else. It's still a very fun, interesting and thrilling show to watch because it has a good and well written story despite it being about the decadence of a man who's clearly struggling to not reach the point Hannibal wants him to reach. Hannibal/Will is very popular as a ship and the series director has stated his wish to turn it (explicitly) canon and the final episode got really close.

For me, this is more like what the romance between Kyoko and Katsuya is. Of course, it's not exactly the same thing, but it's messed up in its own way. Would I approve of any of these relationships in real life? Of course not. But they're still entertaining to follow in my opinion.
Jun 29, 2021 5:09 PM

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TheOneOfSeven said:
And why I am not bothered by the age-gap? It is because my father is 18 and a half years older than my step-mother, I am not too bothered by it now.

sorry if this is a sensitive topic for you, but out of curiosity what's the gap between your father's and real mother's age?
Jun 29, 2021 6:18 PM

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TheOneOfSeven said:
That's why I am worried over the fact it's going to be adapted in this era, this modern year, due to how sensitive many people are. Maybe it should've been left in the manga because I can imagine Twitter EXPLODING once this air.


This is such a bad take. It's not about being "sensitive" is about the new generations not wanting to promote stories, or behavior, or celebrities or politicians - you name it - that contribute to abuse and misery in the world. It's not being "sensitive" if people drag this 2022 adaptation to the ground if it stays true to the manga because the people dragging it simply wouldn't want to promote the behavior depicted in it.

Katsuya's relationship with Kyoko was sexual - it was rape. No one ever brings this up in the story. The rape is glamorized.

So it's not a matter of sensitivity, is a matter of having much more decency than older generations.

People from 2000 years ago would call you sensitive if you didn't want to go watch gladiators murder each other for entertainment.

@raifuresu

But Hannibal is a horrible person, a wanted criminal, and the story is about catching him. Hannibal doesn't "need" to make social commentary because the protagonist is the bad guy, and considered bad by every character in the story that knows what he does.

The intentions of my comparison were to bring up the fact that Katsuya and Kyoko's relationship is NOT portrayed as bad, even though it is very, very illegal, and could've potentially ruined Kyoko's life. You say people don't need a reason to fantasize about things and teenagers can fantasize about whatever they want, but then let's switch to the teenagers that think Ted Bundy was hot and cool. Is that something we want teengers to fantasize about? Katsuya wasn't portrayed as a groomer nor an abuser nor a criminal but he was all of these, the author simply didn't give attention to it because it would've ruined the fantasy.

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Koito91Jun 30, 2021 12:42 PM
Jun 29, 2021 7:55 PM

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TheOneOfSeven said:
I mean, I myself aren't that bothered by the age-gap, it's just when and how they met, if she was 20 and he was 28 or if they were the typical highschool crush students, then it would've been better.

...

And why I am not bothered by the age-gap? It is because my father is 18 and a half years older than my step-mother, I am not too bothered by it now.


It's not the age gap itself that's the issue, it's their ages when they get together that's the problem. Nobody would say "all 8-year age gaps are bad."

A 23-year old getting a 15-year old pregnant, when there's also a teacher-student dynamic between them, is just wrong. Period. Full stop. Considering how unnecessary that aspect of their relationship is to the story, I hope they're able to make some changes to it.
Jun 30, 2021 1:42 AM

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dbulg1 said:
TheOneOfSeven said:
I mean, I myself aren't that bothered by the age-gap, it's just when and how they met, if she was 20 and he was 28 or if they were the typical highschool crush students, then it would've been better.

...

And why I am not bothered by the age-gap? It is because my father is 18 and a half years older than my step-mother, I am not too bothered by it now.


It's not the age gap itself that's the issue, it's their ages when they get together that's the problem. Nobody would say "all 8-year age gaps are bad."

A 23-year old getting a 15-year old pregnant, when there's also a teacher-student dynamic between them, is just wrong. Period. Full stop. Considering how unnecessary that aspect of their relationship is to the story, I hope they're able to make some changes to it.
I understand people are uncomfortable by the fact Kyoko was a student and Katsuya a teacher, I am so myself, I did mention if they were highschool students or Kyoko being 20 and Katsuya 28, then it would've been a different story.

Rojaseb said:
TheOneOfSeven said:
That's why I am worried over the fact it's going to be adapted in this era, this modern year, due to how sensitive many people are. Maybe it should've been left in the manga because I can imagine Twitter EXPLODING once this air.


This is such a bad take. It's not about being "sensitive" is about the new generations not wanting to promote stories, or behavior, or celebrities or politicians - you name it - that contribute to abuse and misery in the world. It's not being "sensitive" if people drag this 2022 adaptation to the ground if it stays true to the manga because the people dragging it simply wouldn't want to promote the behavior depicted in it.

Katsuya's relationship with Kyoko was sexual - it was rape. No one ever brings this up in the story. The rape is glamorized.

So it's not a matter of sensitivity, is a matter of having much more decency than older generations.

People from 2000 years ago would call you sensitive if you didn't want to go watch gladiators murder each other for entertainment.
I am sorry, but I am genuinely curious, where was the rape in the story? It's not exactly mentioned and I am overly worried people will take a different take on the characters. Maybe things will change in the upcoming OVA, like who knows?

However, it is very vital for Tohru's character in general, I don't fancy the relationship myself nor do I fancy over how they met, I'll just watch it to understand a bit more of the parents and Tohru herself.

TraX_LTU said:
TheOneOfSeven said:
And why I am not bothered by the age-gap? It is because my father is 18 and a half years older than my step-mother, I am not too bothered by it now.

sorry if this is a sensitive topic for you, but out of curiosity what's the gap between your father's and real mother's age?
Between my dad and mom? 3 years.

Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button.
Koito91Jun 30, 2021 12:43 PM
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Jun 30, 2021 6:46 AM

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Rojaseb said:
@raifuresu

But Hannibal is a horrible person, a wanted criminal, and the story is about catching him. Hannibal doesn't "need" to make social commentary because the protagonist is the bad guy, and considered bad by every character in the story that knows what he does.

The intentions of my comparison were to bring up the fact that Katsuya and Kyoko's relationship is NOT portrayed as bad, even though it is very, very illegal, and could've potentially ruined Kyoko's life. You say people don't need a reason to fantasize about things and teenagers can fantasize about whatever they want, but then let's switch to the teenagers that think Ted Bundy was hot and cool. Is that something we want teengers to fantasize about? Katsuya wasn't portrayed as a groomer nor an abuser nor a criminal but he was all of these, the author simply didn't give attention to it because it would've ruined the fantasy.


I think you're exaggerating now. You can't compare Katsuya, a fictional character who was portrayed as a man who fell in love and treated the girl well, age gap or not, with a real life serial killer. Fantasizing with those people is not the same thing. Even fantasizing with an anime serial killer wouldn't be the same as fantasizing with Ted Bundy, and a lot of people fantasize with villain characters.

Katsuya wasn't portrayed as a groomer, an abuser nor a criminal because this is a fictional story, and as I said before, it doesn't need to follow real world rules. Things that can't work out in real life can work out in fiction. Katsuya would have been a groomer in real life, but in the manga, he isn't.

TheOneOfSeven said:
Rojaseb said:


This is such a bad take. It's not about being "sensitive" is about the new generations not wanting to promote stories, or behavior, or celebrities or politicians - you name it - that contribute to abuse and misery in the world. It's not being "sensitive" if people drag this 2022 adaptation to the ground if it stays true to the manga because the people dragging it simply wouldn't want to promote the behavior depicted in it.

Katsuya's relationship with Kyoko was sexual - it was rape. No one ever brings this up in the story. The rape is glamorized.

So it's not a matter of sensitivity, is a matter of having much more decency than older generations.

People from 2000 years ago would call you sensitive if you didn't want to go watch gladiators murder each other for entertainment.
I am sorry, but I am genuinely curious, where was the rape in the story? It's not exactly mentioned and I am overly worried people will take a different take on the characters. Maybe things will change in the upcoming OVA, like who knows?

However, it is very vital for Tohru's character in general, I don't fancy the relationship myself nor do I fancy over how they met, I'll just watch it to understand a bit more of the parents and Tohru herself.


I think he meant statutory rape. Katsuya didn't force Kyoko into sex, but because of the age gap, in real life it would be considered statutory rape regardless.

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Koito91Jun 30, 2021 12:44 PM
Jun 30, 2021 7:06 AM
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Honestly I find it really disturbing tbh. How much ever of an amazing person Katsuya is, I can’t accept a 15 year old getting married to a 23 year old man. Moreover, I am so so so surprised they planned to adapt this as an animation. I would have been a million times happier if they planned to adapt fruit basket another. But this is just a…. No.
DarkCarnage0Jun 30, 2021 8:56 PM
Jun 30, 2021 7:41 AM

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raifuresu said:
TheOneOfSeven said:
I am sorry, but I am genuinely curious, where was the rape in the story? It's not exactly mentioned and I am overly worried people will take a different take on the characters. Maybe things will change in the upcoming OVA, like who knows?

However, it is very vital for Tohru's character in general, I don't fancy the relationship myself nor do I fancy over how they met, I'll just watch it to understand a bit more of the parents and Tohru herself.


I think he meant statutory rape. Katsuya didn't force Kyoko into sex, but because of the age gap, in real life it would be considered statutory rape regardless.
Oooh, I see, then I understand where they come from.

DarkCarnage0 said:
Honestly I find it really disturbing tbh. How much ever of an amazing person Katsuya is, I can’t accept a 15 year old getting married to a 28 year old man. Moreover, I am so so so surprised they planned to adapt this as an animation. I would have been a million times happier if they planned to adapt fruit basket another. But this is just a…. No.
Perhaps later on, they may adapt Fruits Basket Another, we have to wait and see.

DarkCarnage0 said:
Honestly I find it really disturbing tbh. How much ever of an amazing person Katsuya is, I can’t accept a 15 year old getting married to a 28 year old man. Moreover, I am so so so surprised they planned to adapt this as an animation. I would have been a million times happier if they planned to adapt fruit basket another. But this is just a…. No.
Also, a quick edit: Katsuya was 23 when he married Kyoko, not 28, but regardless, it is uncomfortable.

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Koito91Jun 30, 2021 12:44 PM
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Jul 2, 2021 5:38 AM
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Honestly i dont know why people get soooo hung up on entertainment having some sort of obligation to present x and y in a certain way because "lets think about the kids". Its such a tiring argument mostly used by religious or purist groups that i cant take it seriously anymore. It can be a tricky topic, I agree, there are some valid cases, but in the end its up to the parents to teach their children this stuff and monitor what minors do. I personally dont agree that this sort of responsibility should be on the entertainment. The media CAN have some sort of influence the audience but it DOES NOT mean it WILL. its a hypothetical thing and with that logic we could go endlessly - dont drive because you can end up in an accident, dont take this cig bc u can get addicted etc. Things are allowed to be fantasies and exist there without having some sort of social commentary attached to it. If there can never be problematic content because children might see it then we will never be able to create anything ever.

This case is quite interesting to me because when I was a teen i consumed a lot of media with teacher/student relationships since that was my fantasy (i still like it to this day bc its my FANTASY). And yet, thanks to my parents' teachings, I was aware of the dangers of it in real life. I'm not saying that my case is like everyone else but making generalizations that there are so many young, naive teenagers is not a good thing either.
Jul 5, 2021 11:18 AM
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Mika-taicho said:
Honestly i dont know why people get soooo hung up on entertainment having some sort of obligation to present x and y in a certain way because "lets think about the kids". Its such a tiring argument mostly used by religious or purist groups that i cant take it seriously anymore. It can be a tricky topic, I agree, there are some valid cases, but in the end its up to the parents to teach their children this stuff and monitor what minors do. I personally dont agree that this sort of responsibility should be on the entertainment. The media CAN have some sort of influence the audience but it DOES NOT mean it WILL. its a hypothetical thing and with that logic we could go endlessly - dont drive because you can end up in an accident, dont take this cig bc u can get addicted etc. Things are allowed to be fantasies and exist there without having some sort of social commentary attached to it. If there can never be problematic content because children might see it then we will never be able to create anything ever.


I can't agree more with you! Katsuya is just a man who happenned to love a woman younger than him. So what?
Yes she's young when they met but, first of all, she had reached puberty and the age of consent by japanese standards. There is no "statutory rape" here (it would have been if he was still an assistant teacher, but it is states that he didn't touch her when he was).
Also, he didn't marry her like it was nothing. He asked her PARENTS beforehand and her father gave him his consent ; the way this is pictured is not positive at all, because Kyôko's parents throw her away! It's easy to understand that "good" parents would never agreed right away, especially to a man they never met before! Even a children can get that much!
Plus, Katsuya's family is not really fond of this wedding because it's not a common thing. Just like Cinderella marrying a fu**ing prince is not a common thing. ;)

Rojaseb said:
Kureno for example, could've been the same age as Akito or Ritsu - there was no point whatsoever in making him so old, he was never even friends with the Shigure gang.


He was though... especially with Shigure. That's why Shigure is so mean to him after the whole "Akito incident".
MiryJul 5, 2021 11:27 AM
Jul 8, 2021 7:52 AM
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I personally never cared for their age gap. I was always more invested in the actual story and how much Katsuya's existence savedKyoko. People seriously need to stop acting like fiction has to obey every single rule of morality. It's fiction. This couple is purposely written with this age gap and situation,in order to present a different light and how there is more to them than just "x met y in highschool and x is 15". Kyoko's story is meant to show how she got saved by Katsuya's existence,how she felt about being a teenage mother,how she felt after losing Katsuya and how she learned to live with that. There is more to this story than the controversial aspects. How about you just educate your kid to distinguish stuff instead of trying to take the salt out of stories by making them morally correct in its entirety? I grew up with shows like Pretty Little Liars,Fruits Basket and many other which contained these kind of situations,and yet that never made me as a child want to be in the situation of these characters because my parents cared enough to educate me and tell me what's good and not. Fiction is fiction and it's exactly because of that why its allowed to take liberties and present tabboo situations too because fiction doesn't involve real human beings. People need to seriously stop being so over protective over kids and what they can or not watch because those exact kids will end up clueless and scared of this world when becoming adults.I miss the times when people would not bitch about every single thing on the internet ngl.
Jul 8, 2021 7:53 AM
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KazuKotomine said:
Mika-taicho said:
Honestly i dont know why people get soooo hung up on entertainment having some sort of obligation to present x and y in a certain way because "lets think about the kids". Its such a tiring argument mostly used by religious or purist groups that i cant take it seriously anymore. It can be a tricky topic, I agree, there are some valid cases, but in the end its up to the parents to teach their children this stuff and monitor what minors do. I personally dont agree that this sort of responsibility should be on the entertainment. The media CAN have some sort of influence the audience but it DOES NOT mean it WILL. its a hypothetical thing and with that logic we could go endlessly - dont drive because you can end up in an accident, dont take this cig bc u can get addicted etc. Things are allowed to be fantasies and exist there without having some sort of social commentary attached to it. If there can never be problematic content because children might see it then we will never be able to create anything ever.

This case is quite interesting to me because when I was a teen i consumed a lot of media with teacher/student relationships since that was my fantasy (i still like it to this day bc its my FANTASY). And yet, thanks to my parents' teachings, I was aware of the dangers of it in real life. I'm not saying that my case is like everyone else but making generalizations that there are so many young, naive teenagers is not a good thing either.
yeah i agree that it isn't a good idea to promote age gap relationships as if they're perfectly normal and have no faults but people should be taught beforehand the dangers these situations have, people are relying too much on entertainment to teach kids whats right these days instead of actually doing it themselves which is unfortunate for a series like this which shows a lot of depths in different real life issues but people go over and complain about one they should already be taught about


That's all on the parent,not on the entertainment. Imagine what bland shows we would have if we would go morally correct in everythingand even the smallest trait. Killing is not morally correct either and yet shounen anime do exist. Parents should just educate their kids or just not have kids if they cant do the bare minimum.
Aug 13, 2021 5:20 AM
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I really understand agree of much of the points and where do those come from. But one could'nt bring their beliefs and norms to the other without understanding the other's norm and have their own judgement. I know it kinda fucked up, even in norm that I believe in. But still, such judgemental just throws me off.

I believe, according to Japanese law, it's not fully illegal of such relations. Eventhough any adolescent-adult relations are forbidden by law and counts as "indecent act", but it could be negated by marriage, engagement, or other "socially accepted kind of relationship". so than the adult wouldn't be seen as "taking advantage of immaturity."

Context matter.
Sep 25, 2021 6:21 AM
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lapau said:
I really understand agree of much of the points and where do those come from. But one could'nt bring their beliefs and norms to the other without understanding the other's norm and have their own judgement. I know it kinda fucked up, even in norm that I believe in. But still, such judgemental just throws me off.

I believe, according to Japanese law, it's not fully illegal of such relations. Eventhough any adolescent-adult relations are forbidden by law and counts as "indecent act", but it could be negated by marriage, engagement, or other "socially accepted kind of relationship". so than the adult wouldn't be seen as "taking advantage of immaturity."

Context matter.

This.

Anyway, the main sticking point remains... This fictional. It's not reality.

People seem to think that whoever will watch this, that they are all dumb or something... 99% of people will be able to tell, it is not real. It will be obvious that this is not reality.

And the 1%, if they think an anime is real life, they have some big problems that need to be addressed... and it's not the anime that has the problem, but their own self.

Lastly, this kind of relationship is quite common in Japanese manga. In any genre with romance you will see some age gap stuff. Clearly in the Japanese fandoms, it is seen as acceptable to show this type of content in a fictional context. So, trying to force western values onto a Japanese content, it is a bit silly anyway.

Even in some western novels like those cheap smut novels in dollar stores, you will see this kinda thing...

Sep 26, 2021 10:51 AM

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quercifolia said:
lapau said:
I really understand agree of much of the points and where do those come from. But one could'nt bring their beliefs and norms to the other without understanding the other's norm and have their own judgement. I know it kinda fucked up, even in norm that I believe in. But still, such judgemental just throws me off.

I believe, according to Japanese law, it's not fully illegal of such relations. Eventhough any adolescent-adult relations are forbidden by law and counts as "indecent act", but it could be negated by marriage, engagement, or other "socially accepted kind of relationship". so than the adult wouldn't be seen as "taking advantage of immaturity."

Context matter.

This.


Not "this". It IS illegal and @lapau is simply wrong with their "I believe it's no fully illegal" comment. Yes it is illegal, you're free to read about but I didn't make this post to give a ted talk about Japanese laws on consent. Moreover, for the things they listed such as "marriage," or actually getting yourself involved in any form with a person under 20 in Japan, you require explicit parental consent, which this relationship very clearly did not have.

So everything that you can do wrong in a relationship like this, was done wrong here, and it was written for the literal kids that read Hana to Yume, and the author made money out of it.

A terrible stain on Fruits Basket that should've been kept in the drafts or as a doujin if the author wanted to publish it so much.
RojasebSep 26, 2021 10:55 AM
Sep 27, 2021 11:24 PM
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Rojaseb said:
quercifolia said:

This.


Not "this". It IS illegal and @lapau is simply wrong with their "I believe it's no fully illegal" comment. Yes it is illegal, you're free to read about but I didn't make this post to give a ted talk about Japanese laws on consent. Moreover, for the things they listed such as "marriage," or actually getting yourself involved in any form with a person under 20 in Japan, you require explicit parental consent, which this relationship very clearly did not have.

So everything that you can do wrong in a relationship like this, was done wrong here, and it was written for the literal kids that read Hana to Yume, and the author made money out of it.

A terrible stain on Fruits Basket that should've been kept in the drafts or as a doujin if the author wanted to publish it so much.


The legality in real life is not relevant anyway to be honest though you make some good points.

As I said in my post...

This is fictional. It's not reality.

If you think anime or manga is real life you got more issues than the actual manga

Sep 28, 2021 12:46 AM

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quercifolia said:
This is fictional. It's not reality.

If you think anime or manga is real life you got more issues than the actual manga


If you had bothered to pay attention to my post, my point was that this was written for people that are easily influenced by the things they are exposed to, not us. If your favorite author suddenly writes a great character getting pregnant in her teens by a teacher who took the chance of raping her while she was at the lowest point in her life, then caused her to drop out of school, all the while making it look like the predator of a teacher was nothing but a saint rescuing her, then that must have been a damn sight to see for the millions of Japanese middle school girls that had been buying this story under the impression that it was wholesome and integrous. Us adults can discern better, but it makes me incredibly disappointed that this was put out as a part of the main story given my immense adoration for (most of) Fruits Basket. Akigure's and Kurenorisa's age gaps and fast-paced relationships are very easy to ignore in comparison with the absolute mess that was Kyoko and Katsuya.

The author randomly decided to sink very low for no particular reason other than her publicly stated beliefs about "age being just a number when it comes to love". Well that's a messed up ideology to sell to kids.
RojasebSep 28, 2021 12:51 AM
Sep 28, 2021 3:14 AM
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Rojaseb said:
quercifolia said:

This.


Not "this". It IS illegal and @lapau is simply wrong with their "I believe it's no fully illegal" comment. Yes it is illegal, you're free to read about but I didn't make this post to give a ted talk about Japanese laws on consent. Moreover, for the things they listed such as "marriage," or actually getting yourself involved in any form with a person under 20 in Japan, you require explicit parental consent, which this relationship very clearly did not have.

So everything that you can do wrong in a relationship like this, was done wrong here, and it was written for the literal kids that read Hana to Yume, and the author made money out of it.

A terrible stain on Fruits Basket that should've been kept in the drafts or as a doujin if the author wanted to publish it so much.


Well, I only point out how it actually is, a simple fact. Again, you are entitled to your own views, and I have no attempt to change that. Even, I fully agree with some of your talking points. But simply being judgemental without understading what values do the writer have, or maybe the values of people in the 90s Japan probably had. For me, it doesn't feel right.
Sep 28, 2021 7:31 PM

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lapau said:
But simply being judgemental without understading what values do the writer have, or maybe the values of people in the 90s Japan probably had. For me, it doesn't feel right.


If Kyoko had been just 1 year younger, Katsuya would fit the legal criteria to be considered a pedophile

Supporting predatory behavior against children isn't a value
Nov 14, 2021 12:59 PM
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I know the age gap is bad but for someone reason it doesn’t really bother me, maybe because my mother was 14 when she got with my dad who was 24 years old and she also got pregnant at 15, it was quite normal back then… but I would see why people would call this disgusting and predatory.But your reason is also right, this is getting animated In a more modern era so it would make sense to make the relationships seem more modern. If I was the devs though I think it would be a good choice to make katsuya a little bit younger.
abpgNov 14, 2021 1:03 PM
Nov 20, 2021 11:00 PM
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I think Arisa and Kureno compared to Kyoko and Katsuya is way more healthy/acceptable. With KyokoxKatsuya there is a clear lane of having a power dynamic, as a student to teacher relationship can only show a direct power (teacher) over another (student), but Arisa and Kureno didn't have that power dyanmic even while having a similar age gap. I think if Kyoko was aged up to 16/17 where the age gap would still be a present part of their relationship, but not as much as a 14-22 y/o difference where theres a LARGE difference of maturity, would be better. Age gaps arent necessarily bad, but the context in which the age gap is in can definitely make it bad, which in Kyoko's case it is, but in Arisa's case it isnt nearly as bad.

Which maybe the series could have commented on that more and kept Kyoko's age gap, but it didn't and it definitely idealized Katsuya.
Dec 6, 2021 6:10 AM
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I think we should just treat it as the fiction it is. If it bothers you simply don't watch Japan doesn't seem to have an issue otherwise they wouldn't produce it, so why should we? We'll that said I don't care about either so lol

Btw she was at least 16 otherwise they wouldn't have been able to marry legally.
Dec 6, 2021 9:25 AM

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lov3lymj said:
Japan doesn't seem to have an issue otherwise they wouldn't produce it, so why should we?


"Japan doesn't have an issue with a story about a teacher getting a 15yo student pregnant so why should we care?"

Because it's disgusting, who gives a fuck what Japan doesn't care about, I'm calling it out either way and definitely won't be watching that shit
Dec 7, 2021 10:09 AM
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Rojaseb said:
Kyoko was a 14 years old girl and Katsuya a 22 years old guy working for Kyoko's school, as a teacher's assistant. That's the general description of their relationship - it sounds bad straight away, and it's made worse by the fact that Katsuya gets Kyoko pregnant at around 15-16. To top it all off, Kyoko's domestic situation was deplorable and violent, and the reason why she got herself involved in criminal gangs. Katsuya knew all this.

But none of this is the problem that I'm talking about. No, the relationship doesn't get worse - the problem is Katsuya is an actual saint. Katsuya made Kyoko's life better, he emotionally supported her out of an impossible situation, and made her feel loved in a sincere and beautiful way. There was nothing wrong with their actual relationship. This is disturbing. It doesn't play out like that in real life. I'm 24, and I can guarantee you guys around my age NEVER go after 14 years old girls with pure intentions. The guys that do this are predatory, rotten and wholly trying to take advantage of girls, either to groom them or to rape them (because let's not forget that minors can't give consent to sexual relationships with adults).

So here's where I've seen the argument, "It's just fiction." Hmm. For you maybe, a fellow adult reading this story and being able to easily get past the weirdness in favor of the otherwise normal relationship.

But Fruba was published in the manga magazine Hana to Yume, read majorly by females (95%), most of which are minors (66%). To begin with, in Japan minors cannot freely give consent to sexual relationships with adults until they are 20 years old. When the Kyoko backstory dropped, Fruba was mainstream both in Japan and outside of it, becoming one of the first manga to accomplish something like that. Natsuki Takaya is an author that very consistently utilized her Hana to Yume platform for more than entertainment - Fruba portrays child abuse, domestic violence and the loss of parents in very realistic ways. Her storytelling always aimed to convey the message that these situation can be overcame, and showed us how using equally realistic characters.

So I think the author betrayed this integrity during the Katsuya & Kyoko relationship. She showed her mostly female teenage audience a completely inappropriate relationship, and glorified it. She never showed the cons of this type of relationship. Kyoko only second-guesses Katsuya's intentions once for a joke. We never get to hear what's even going through Katsuya's mind. The author wrote the age gap, then ignored the meaning of it. And I believe real Japanese girls the same age as Kyoko, who idolized Fruba and the author, wouldn't react as "This is obviously bad, this is just fiction, let's just ignore the age gap". Natsuki Takaya had a fantastic reputation and following, so it's perfectly possible that her younger readers could've been mislead by her to think that adults who come on to them, can have beautiful and pure romantic intentions... when this is never ever the case in real life. So let's not use the "it's fiction" argument because teenagers don't interpret literature that way, and they can by all means be negatively influenced by a story of an author they love, or mislead into having unrealistic expectations, then more easily fall for the manipulation of predatory men who act like saints as Katsuya did.

I agree on what others have suggested to bring Katsuya's age down and make him Kyoko's highscool senpai. That would make Kyoko 14 to 15 and Katsuya 16 to 17 (depending on their birthdays). I think fixing the ages would set a good precedent for new shoujo adaptations, since the label is plagued with bad age gaps. Fruba 2019 was a financial success that will most likely motivate other shoujo magazines to remake or reboot their incomplete anime, and Hana to Yume has the chance to set a good example here.


so true bestie!!! people who still think “anime is fictional who cares what their relationship age gap is!” need to read this!! and you made other good points ofc, very educational!
Dec 7, 2021 12:31 PM
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Rojaseb said:
lov3lymj said:
Japan doesn't seem to have an issue otherwise they wouldn't produce it, so why should we?


"Japan doesn't have an issue with a story about a teacher getting a 15yo student pregnant so why should we care?"

Because it's disgusting, who gives a fuck what Japan doesn't care about, I'm calling it out either way and definitely won't be watching that shit


Just a short correction: Kyoko was 16+ when she got pregnant, in Japan teens can legally marry at that age (with their parents approval) and Katsuya is an intern-teacher and a college student (if they wanted the could make him 18/19 whilst she is 16, she's in her last year after all and the agegaps are 14-16). But that won't happen (laughs in Violet Evergarden)

That's absolutely fair, keep going though you ain't gonna achieve anything tbvh (learned that too) just don't expect the world to do that too. Tbvh I don't care about either but imma be watching for the other couples.
lov3lymjDec 7, 2021 12:37 PM
Dec 8, 2021 12:20 AM

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lov3lymj said:
Rojaseb said:


"Japan doesn't have an issue with a story about a teacher getting a 15yo student pregnant so why should we care?"

Because it's disgusting, who gives a fuck what Japan doesn't care about, I'm calling it out either way and definitely won't be watching that shit


Just a short correction: Kyoko was 16+ when she got pregnant, in Japan teens can legally marry at that age (with their parents approval) and Katsuya is an intern-teacher and a college student (if they wanted the could make him 18/19 whilst she is 16, she's in her last year after all and the agegaps are 14-16).


Wrong, you can only marry in Japan at that age with THE CONSENT OF THE PARENTS which Kyoko did not have. She dropped school and left her home.

You're also wrong about her age. She got pregnant as soon as they were together. She died around 30-32 years old when Tohru was 16. Meaning she got pregnant at 14-15.
Dec 8, 2021 12:21 AM

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diorukia said:
so true bestie!!! people who still think “anime is fictional who cares what their relationship age gap is!” need to read this!! and you made other good points ofc, very educational!


People who say "it's just fiction" are just trying to justify their creepy fetishes to not feel guilty about it because they know it's wrong to like that shit
Dec 8, 2021 5:19 PM

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Rojaseb said:
diorukia said:
so true bestie!!! people who still think “anime is fictional who cares what their relationship age gap is!” need to read this!! and you made other good points ofc, very educational!


People who say "it's just fiction" are just trying to justify their creepy fetishes to not feel guilty about it because they know it's wrong to like that shit


No, you're going too far. There are plenty of things I won't read or watch because for me, personally, they cross the line of what I'm comfortable with. But I will absolutely defend their right to exist, and for other people to consume that fiction without being called names. Because yes, it is "just fiction." And you don't need to feel guilty for liking that shit. Read it, watch it, don't read it, don't watch it. You can even start discussion topics about how it's an unrealistic portrayal of highschool romance and what effect that might have. But once you start saying, This art shouldn't exist because it's bad, or start publicly shaming people who watch/read that fiction, you're going too far. "Art doesn't have to make you comfortable." - Someone wise I can't remember
Dec 8, 2021 5:25 PM

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a shoujo manga portraying inappropriate relationships? Say it aint so!
Dec 9, 2021 7:51 AM
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Rojaseb said:
lov3lymj said:


Just a short correction: Kyoko was 16+ when she got pregnant, in Japan teens can legally marry at that age (with their parents approval) and Katsuya is an intern-teacher and a college student (if they wanted the could make him 18/19 whilst she is 16, she's in her last year after all and the agegaps are 14-16).


Wrong, you can only marry in Japan at that age with THE CONSENT OF THE PARENTS which Kyoko did not have. She dropped school and left her home.

You're also wrong about her age. She got pregnant as soon as they were together. She died around 30-32 years old when Tohru was 16. Meaning she got pregnant at 14-15.



They gave up their parental rights (remember the document?), she could decide when to marry and yes, she must've been 16 otherwise it wouldn't have been possible for her to get married in Japan. That's the law. The minimum age is 16 for a teen and it's said that they got married first lol
Dec 9, 2021 7:57 AM
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blissfire said:
Rojaseb said:


People who say "it's just fiction" are just trying to justify their creepy fetishes to not feel guilty about it because they know it's wrong to like that shit


No, you're going too far. There are plenty of things I won't read or watch because for me, personally, they cross the line of what I'm comfortable with. But I will absolutely defend their right to exist, and for other people to consume that fiction without being called names. Because yes, it is "just fiction." And you don't need to feel guilty for liking that shit. Read it, watch it, don't read it, don't watch it. You can even start discussion topics about how it's an unrealistic portrayal of highschool romance and what effect that might have. But once you start saying, This art shouldn't exist because it's bad, or start publicly shaming people who watch/read that fiction, you're going too far. "Art doesn't have to make you comfortable." - Someone wise I can't remember


No fr ppl be weird, it's known that ppl like certain inappropriate or problematic shit in fiction. Morality doesn't really exist there and some have certain fantasies (which is why shojos exist for example, to fulfill them). As long as they can diver from reality/fiction, it's fine. This is why fiction even exists. It doesn't make you superior for not liking them either. Student/teacher for example is a highly popular roleplay.
lov3lymjDec 9, 2021 8:03 AM
Dec 12, 2021 8:14 PM

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lov3lymj said:
blissfire said:


No, you're going too far. There are plenty of things I won't read or watch because for me, personally, they cross the line of what I'm comfortable with. But I will absolutely defend their right to exist, and for other people to consume that fiction without being called names. Because yes, it is "just fiction." And you don't need to feel guilty for liking that shit. Read it, watch it, don't read it, don't watch it. You can even start discussion topics about how it's an unrealistic portrayal of highschool romance and what effect that might have. But once you start saying, This art shouldn't exist because it's bad, or start publicly shaming people who watch/read that fiction, you're going too far. "Art doesn't have to make you comfortable." - Someone wise I can't remember


No fr ppl be weird, it's known that ppl like certain inappropriate or problematic shit in fiction. Morality doesn't really exist there and some have certain fantasies (which is why shojos exist for example, to fulfill them). As long as they can diver from reality/fiction, it's fine. This is why fiction even exists. It doesn't make you superior for not liking them either. Student/teacher for example is a highly popular roleplay.


Fiction doesn't exist to air out people's creepy fetishes, fetishists resort to fiction because they know some shit is wrong and illegal. It doesn't make you any less disgusting to vent it through fiction though <3
Dec 12, 2021 8:18 PM

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blissfire said:
I will absolutely defend their right to exist, and for other people to consume that fiction without being called names. Because yes, it is "just fiction." And you don't need to feel guilty for liking that shit. Read it, watch it, don't read it, don't watch it. You can even start discussion topics about how it's an unrealistic portrayal of highschool romance and what effect that might have. But once you start saying, This art shouldn't exist because it's bad, or start publicly shaming people who watch/read that fiction, you're going too far. "Art doesn't have to make you comfortable." - Someone wise I can't remember


Girl... "art" doesn't excuse anything nor is it ever a valid reason to romanticize amoral and depraved behavior. Art can be atrocious and shit and you can totally call it out. Art isn't supposed to make you comfortable? There's no wisdom in that, it applies to literally anything. The fact of the matter is that you're not supposed to sell a predatory fantasy to little girls.
RojasebDec 12, 2021 8:38 PM
Dec 12, 2021 8:31 PM

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lov3lymj said:
Rojaseb said:


Wrong, you can only marry in Japan at that age with THE CONSENT OF THE PARENTS which Kyoko did not have. She dropped school and left her home.

You're also wrong about her age. She got pregnant as soon as they were together. She died around 30-32 years old when Tohru was 16. Meaning she got pregnant at 14-15.



They gave up their parental rights (remember the document?), she could decide when to marry and yes, she must've been 16 otherwise it wouldn't have been possible for her to get married in Japan. That's the law. The minimum age is 16 for a teen and it's said that they got married first lol


Who even cares about the marriage?? He knocked up a 14-15 yo girl that came from a violent home using his standing as a teacher to groom her and manipulate her all the while the author made it look c u t e.

The marriage is the last of my concerns, I didn't even mention it in my post. Using logic you would connect two and two and realize they got married early because he knocked up a little girl.
Dec 12, 2021 8:33 PM

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I adored Fruits Basket from the bottom of my heart but I didn't know that Tohru's parents story insight was this harsh :o
Dec 12, 2021 8:43 PM

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epidemia78 said:
a shoujo manga portraying inappropriate relationships? Say it aint so!


The problem is the anime airing it in 2022 completely unchanged, since the age gap has been confirmed to remain.

Otherwise I wouldn't have cared to make this post and would've kept my disappointment to myself. There are much worse things in shoujo and this particular story wouldn't even deserve the time of day as far as controversial age gap relationships go.
Dec 14, 2021 12:27 PM
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Rojaseb said:
lov3lymj said:



They gave up their parental rights (remember the document?), she could decide when to marry and yes, she must've been 16 otherwise it wouldn't have been possible for her to get married in Japan. That's the law. The minimum age is 16 for a teen and it's said that they got married first lol


Who even cares about the marriage?? He knocked up a 14-15 yo girl that came from a violent home using his standing as a teacher to groom her and manipulate her all the while the author made it look c u t e.

The marriage is the last of my concerns, I didn't even mention it in my post. Using logic you would connect two and two and realize they got married early because he knocked up a little girl.


Using logic you'd realise that wasn't possible and well from impression as I've read the manga Kyoko married first then gave birth and he was never a teacher just an intern. Plus Kyoko was, unlike what a lot assume, probably 15/16 since she was in her last year (the age range is 14-16 in that grade).

But I don't care it's not that deep in my eyes and if Japanese are excited, I'm not going to throw a fit over a fictional inappropriate couple they want to see animated. And yes ppl will romanticise them like Gilbert and Violet, gotta suck it up. Not everyone has the same moral compass as you. Either way I'm watching for the epilogue and hoping the other couples will show up too. Never cared about a what, 4 chapters lovestory.
Dec 14, 2021 12:50 PM
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Rojaseb said:
lov3lymj said:


No fr ppl be weird, it's known that ppl like certain inappropriate or problematic shit in fiction. Morality doesn't really exist there and some have certain fantasies (which is why shojos exist for example, to fulfill them). As long as they can diver from reality/fiction, it's fine. This is why fiction even exists. It doesn't make you superior for not liking them either. Student/teacher for example is a highly popular roleplay.


Fiction doesn't exist to air out people's creepy fetishes, fetishists resort to fiction because they know some shit is wrong and illegal. It doesn't make you any less disgusting to vent it through fiction though <3


Fiction is a freedom to explore what you want wether it's sane or not. You don't have to agree, you don't have to like it but that's why it exists.

As a kid I've always had a thing for older men (still do) so I liked age gaps romance. I saw myself in them and lived it out but knew that in real life shits not okay. It didn't make me creepy for it. Ppl eat up problematic/forbidden shit bc they're interesting and we'll forbidden, that's exciting and controversial, idk why that frustrates you or you think that makes them gross.

A reading list really doesn't equal anyone's real life moral compass.

Just look at Painter in the Night oder Killing Stalking which were huge controversial BL hits. Reading them didn't make the readers ****** or murders just bc they enjoyed them lol. The concept is quite simple if you understand the difference.

But maybe you're still young, I acted that way when that Inuyasha sequel dropped too but in real life no one cares and some like that stuff and that's okay. It doesn't make female creepy. You'll have a hard time in life if you try reading smth out of everything "omg he likes a certain book, so he's a ....", I'm sure you like controversial stuff too but too far up your superiority to admit it.
Dec 16, 2021 3:41 AM
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217
Rojaseb said:
Kyoko was a 14 years old girl and Katsuya a 22 years old guy working for Kyoko's school, as a teacher's assistant. That's the general description of their relationship - it sounds bad straight away, and it's made worse by the fact that Katsuya gets Kyoko pregnant at around 15-16. To top it all off, Kyoko's domestic situation was deplorable and violent, and the reason why she got herself involved in criminal gangs. Katsuya knew all this.

But none of this is the problem that I'm talking about. No, the relationship doesn't get worse - the problem is Katsuya is an actual saint. Katsuya made Kyoko's life better, he emotionally supported her out of an impossible situation, and made her feel loved in a sincere and beautiful way. There was nothing wrong with their actual relationship. This is disturbing. It doesn't play out like that in real life. I'm 24, and I can guarantee you guys around my age NEVER go after 14 years old girls with pure intentions. The guys that do this are predatory, rotten and wholly trying to take advantage of girls, either to groom them or to rape them (because let's not forget that minors can't give consent to sexual relationships with adults).

So here's where I've seen the argument, "It's just fiction." Hmm. For you maybe, a fellow adult reading this story and being able to easily get past the weirdness in favor of the otherwise normal relationship.

But Fruba was published in the manga magazine Hana to Yume, read majorly by females (95%), most of which are minors (66%). To begin with, in Japan minors cannot freely give consent to sexual relationships with adults until they are 20 years old. When the Kyoko backstory dropped, Fruba was mainstream both in Japan and outside of it, becoming one of the first manga to accomplish something like that. Natsuki Takaya is an author that very consistently utilized her Hana to Yume platform for more than entertainment - Fruba portrays child abuse, domestic violence and the loss of parents in very realistic ways. Her storytelling always aimed to convey the message that these situation can be overcame, and showed us how using equally realistic characters.

So I think the author betrayed this integrity during the Katsuya & Kyoko relationship. She showed her mostly female teenage audience a completely inappropriate relationship, and glorified it. She never showed the cons of this type of relationship. Kyoko only second-guesses Katsuya's intentions once for a joke. We never get to hear what's even going through Katsuya's mind. The author wrote the age gap, then ignored the meaning of it. And I believe real Japanese girls the same age as Kyoko, who idolized Fruba and the author, wouldn't react as "This is obviously bad, this is just fiction, let's just ignore the age gap". Natsuki Takaya had a fantastic reputation and following, so it's perfectly possible that her younger readers could've been mislead by her to think that adults who come on to them, can have beautiful and pure romantic intentions... when this is never ever the case in real life. So let's not use the "it's fiction" argument because teenagers don't interpret literature that way, and they can by all means be negatively influenced by a story of an author they love, or mislead into having unrealistic expectations, then more easily fall for the manipulation of predatory men who act like saints as Katsuya did.

I agree on what others have suggested to bring Katsuya's age down and make him Kyoko's highscool senpai. That would make Kyoko 14 to 15 and Katsuya 16 to 17 (depending on their birthdays). I think fixing the ages would set a good precedent for new shoujo adaptations, since the label is plagued with bad age gaps. Fruba 2019 was a financial success that will most likely motivate other shoujo magazines to remake or reboot their incomplete anime, and Hana to Yume has the chance to set a good example here.

The entire story of how Kyoko met Katsuya and their relationship. Chapters 90 to 93 from the manga.
I'm so happy we'll get to see more of Fruits Basket's universe, i wasn't ready to say goodbye.
Honestly, I love furuba don’t get me wrong. I gave it a 10 for all it’s seasons. But like I’m really sceptical abt this adaptation of kyouko and katsuya relationship, because a lot of ppl including hate the age gap, moreover getting married at 15 to some old dude is weird in all sorts. I was actually so happy they omitted it in the anime adaptions, but like an anime just for this… I honestly would loveeeeeee to see fruit basket:another more than this.
@rojaseb I liked your drop anime. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
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