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Jul 26, 10:50 AM

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ABDoesThings said:
BilboBaggins365 said:


Except Armin later goes pretty much almost to say it was a necessary evil Eren had to take on for everyone. I mean the original plan I thought Armin believed in was to use the Titans as deterrent while they tried to make diplomatic relations with those that may be opposed to Marley. You are right they didn't want him to kill the world so why do they still see him in a light that isn't incredibly negative?

The fact he isn't insanely at Eren for killing billions of people goes against his character in my opinion. Though honestly again Isayama never really I think built up the world enough to see how valid some of the other options were.


I don't think you understand that the rumbling was necessary to happen in order for the power of the titans to disappear. The reason it doesn't go against Armin's character is because he understands that there was no other way for the power of the titans to disappear. It's like Avengers Endgame where there was only one way to win and that involved the death of Tony Stark, etc (despite being a remarkably small price to pay). So it's either do you want the power of the titans to continue to exist in human history and cause as much if not more cumulative damage than the rumbling or do you want to rid the titans once and for all, although Isayama does suggest with the extra pages that the cycle is once again to begin which from my perspective as a student of history is fascinating thematically because it captures the repetitive nature of history.


Again the smart thing would be to then use it either to kill everyone or use it as a bargaining chip through diplomacy and threat of the titans. Even the Zeke plan would be possible just using it as deterrent waiting for everyone to die off and it's likely the other nations would have agreed to leave them alone if they had proof and Zeke was leading it. You keep saying we don't understand but fail to explain why none of these outcomes which would have led to better situations either for Paradise or the world in general are considered.

Instead Eren commits mass genocide to basically ensure only his friends get happy lives (again something you could do with Zeke's plan someone else like freaking instructor dude could have taken on the Titans after Eren's death if he didn't want to condemn his friends specifically) and the entire world isn't obliterated. If he wanted to ensure they had a longer term future the other choices are better but instead he just condemns his friend's kids and grand kids to oblivion for no explained reason.

Eren left the future generations out to dry with no sense of recourse. It does go against Armin's character because they had a plan that doesn't leave most of humanity dead and it doesn't seem like he ever changed his mind on trying to work with other nations like Eren does. Plus it just says you did what was necessary which was entirely out of character what was the point of even fighting him lol if he agreed? There was never a prerequisite you must kill x % to end it.

Modified by BilboBaggins365, Jul 26, 11:03 AM
 
Aug 1, 11:03 PM

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BilboBaggins365 said:
Except the problem with that is that he basically allowed them to live on for their existence and maybe their kids existence dooming the next or next next generation to death when all the enemies Eren made come home to wipe out their grand children. I mean if that was the end result I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to.

If the goal was just to ensure Mikasa and Armin have peace Zeke's plan is better and doesn't require massive amounts of death for everyone. Sure Mikasa can't have kids but they basically are doomed anyway and it's not like they can go outside even after the rumbling considering the likely destruction. They are isolated on the island either way.

So what was gained? Mikasa got to have kids that were doomed to oblivion because Eren couldn't finish the job even though he already destroyed 80% of the world's population in the greatest genocide ever just for his friends. Honestly again I don't really care about the ANR freedom narrative my point is that if he is already going to the the extent he is it doesn't make sense to just leave the situation as is if he even just cared about only his friends. It's not about whether he put x freedom about everyone else he screwed his friends too in the end along with Paradise.

I am just arguing that this ending is bad not that ANR is good.
if Eren only made enemies than he wouldn't have been able to accomplish 200 years of peace and that's no joke looking at how the world was constantly at war before Marley Invasion. Full Rumbling also have the danger of Civil War, so I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to.

No Zeke's plan would sacrifice Historia and Eren don't want his friends to die. Also Zeke's planned everything assuming that Marley and the world would cower in fear and won't do anything to them in 100 years whereas there's a big [possibility that they could've even develop nuclear bombs when Paradis gets to their current level in 50 years.

200 years of peace was gained. His friends lived a peaceful life. Curse was broken. Also even with full rumbling Paradis was doomed if we go by the themes of AoT. There was a potential for civil war as Paradis is a Goody Two shoes, there's racism, corruption, discrimination and they can destroy a nation's economy, citizens, law and order, food supply resulting in famines and much much more which is a slow death.

Racism and discrimination is of various kinds. Do you remember People living inside the Wall Sina and Rose were living a completely different luxurious life compared to people living in Wall Maria. Whole Uprising arc was how people revolt against there own people. Not to forget Eren himself destroyed a big chunk of Paradis while activating Rumbling. So sooner or LATER it was gonna happen and by later I meant 200 years also but eternal peace is not possible resulting in civil war.

I didn't said you think AnR is better. I was pointing this line out- 'having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is.'

 
 
Aug 1, 11:22 PM

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-X3RX3S- said:
BilboBaggins365 said:
Except the problem with that is that he basically allowed them to live on for their existence and maybe their kids existence dooming the next or next next generation to death when all the enemies Eren made come home to wipe out their grand children. I mean if that was the end result I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to.

If the goal was just to ensure Mikasa and Armin have peace Zeke's plan is better and doesn't require massive amounts of death for everyone. Sure Mikasa can't have kids but they basically are doomed anyway and it's not like they can go outside even after the rumbling considering the likely destruction. They are isolated on the island either way.

So what was gained? Mikasa got to have kids that were doomed to oblivion because Eren couldn't finish the job even though he already destroyed 80% of the world's population in the greatest genocide ever just for his friends. Honestly again I don't really care about the ANR freedom narrative my point is that if he is already going to the the extent he is it doesn't make sense to just leave the situation as is if he even just cared about only his friends. It's not about whether he put x freedom about everyone else he screwed his friends too in the end along with Paradise.

I am just arguing that this ending is bad not that ANR is good.
if Eren only made enemies than he wouldn't have been able to accomplish 200 years of peace and that's no joke looking at how the world was constantly at war before Marley Invasion. Full Rumbling also have the danger of Civil War, so I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to.

No Zeke's plan would sacrifice Historia and Eren don't want his friends to die. Also Zeke's planned everything assuming that Marley and the world would cower in fear and won't do anything to them in 100 years whereas there's a big [possibility that they could've even develop nuclear bombs when Paradis gets to their current level in 50 years.

200 years of peace was gained. His friends lived a peaceful life. Curse was broken. Also even with full rumbling Paradis was doomed if we go by the themes of AoT. There was a potential for civil war as Paradis is a Goody Two shoes, there's racism, corruption, discrimination and they can destroy a nation's economy, citizens, law and order, food supply resulting in famines and much much more which is a slow death.

Racism and discrimination is of various kinds. Do you remember People living inside the Wall Sina and Rose were living a completely different luxurious life compared to people living in Wall Maria. Whole Uprising arc was how people revolt against there own people. Not to forget Eren himself destroyed a big chunk of Paradis while activating Rumbling. So sooner or LATER it was gonna happen and by later I meant 200 years also but eternal peace is not possible resulting in civil war.

I didn't said you think AnR is better. I was pointing this line out- 'having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is.'


How would Full Rumbling guarantee a civil war more so than any other alternative where the Eren loyalists and those against him would still be alive? Sure Mikasa and everyone would be horrified but that's hardly different that what he left them to. 80% or 100% you are still the greatest mass murderer in history. It's like saying Hitler isn't so bad because he didn't kill every single Jew in existence.

I also don't know what you mean by if he only made enemies also where did you get that it was 200 years of peace? If you could point me to the panel because the world that they are left in looks like our world I guess the world would be in much worse state but it would be like 100 years at most into the future. It's been awhile since I read it.

Yeah I know Zeke's plan would require sacrifice but again Eren still condemns future generations of people he cares about to death plus you know the mass genocide of innocents thing. I mean if the point he could care less about his friend's descendants and just his friends fine that still incredibly stupid, dumb and short sighted when again he had the possibility of ending the conflict permanently. If I was Mikasa I would deeply hate him.

Plus people might say it's in character but sorry killing literally billions of people because of one girl he developed an emotion bond with again just makes me think this douche bag lol. That is really terrible character writing and an incredibly morally bankrupted individual. Sure I guess that could be a good character but I didn't feel that was at all developed in the case of Eren.

Full Rumbling would guarantee peace for the Eldians for a time. There would be conflict possibly yes but here is the thing like I previously said why wasn't there conflict already in the canon timeline when the Yeagerists basically nationalists realized what Eren condemned them too? A non full rumbling doesn't just give Eldia more unity than if it was full.

Plus if they went with original plan of using it as deterrent you might have gotten some of the more nationalists to come around by slaughtering Marley's invading force of the oppressors and directly working with the moderates within the government. Sure not forever but the series is right that while an external threat doesn't guarantee peace forever once you especially defeat it that threat still is incredibly useful in terms of unity.

Like you argue somehow Isayama's canon ending stops all of what you are talking about it doesn't. At least even in the event of civil war some of their descedents could survive they had no such chance against the rest of the world. Ultimately I will continue to hold to this Isayama doesn't know how to write a good political thriller/war drama because stuff like this isn't considered.

Also yeah a final Eren kills everyone tragic ending would have been better because it would at least make sense and would fit the themes of AOT better (the whole people won't stop fighting until only one is left) than whatever this current garbage is.



Modified by BilboBaggins365, Aug 1, 11:31 PM
 
Aug 2, 12:56 AM

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BilboBaggins365 said:

How would Full Rumbling guarantee a civil war more so than any other alternative where the Eren loyalists and those against him would still be alive? Sure Mikasa and everyone would be horrified but that's hardly different that what he left them to. 80% or 100% you are still the greatest mass murderer in history. It's like saying Hitler isn't so bad because he didn't kill every single Jew in existence.

I also don't know what you mean by if he only made enemies also where did you get that it was 200 years of peace? If you could point me to the panel because the world that they are left in looks like our world I guess the world would be in much worse state but it would be like 100 years at most into the future. It's been awhile since I read it.

Yeah I know Zeke's plan would require sacrifice but again Eren still condemns future generations of people he cares about to death plus you know the mass genocide of innocents thing. I mean if the point he could care less about his friend's descendants and just his friends fine that still incredibly stupid, dumb and short sighted when again he had the possibility of ending the conflict permanently. If I was Mikasa I would deeply hate him.

Plus people might say it's in character but sorry killing literally billions of people because of one girl he developed an emotion bond with again just makes me think this douche bag lol. That is really terrible character writing and an incredibly morally bankrupted individual. Sure I guess that could be a good character but I didn't feel that was at all developed in the case of Eren.

Full Rumbling would guarantee peace for the Eldians for a time. There would be conflict possibly yes but here is the thing like I previously said why wasn't there conflict already in the canon timeline when the Yeagerists basically nationalists realized what Eren condemned them too? A non full rumbling doesn't just give Eldia more unity than if it was full.

Plus if they went with original plan of using it as deterrent you might have gotten some of the more nationalists to come around by slaughtering Marley's invading force of the oppressors and directly working with the moderates within the government. Sure not forever but the series is right that while an external threat doesn't guarantee peace forever once you especially defeat it that threat still is incredibly useful in terms of unity.

Like you argue somehow Isayama's canon ending stops all of what you are talking about it doesn't. At least even in the event of civil war some of their descedents could survive they had no such chance against the rest of the world. Ultimately I will continue to hold to this Isayama doesn't know how to write a good political thriller/war drama because stuff like this isn't considered.

Also yeah a final Eren kills everyone tragic ending would have been better because it would at least make sense and would fit the themes of AOT better (the whole people won't stop fighting until only one is left) than whatever this current garbage is.
I never said that current ending does not gurantee that. Ofc. it can happen as you said- people won't stop fighting until only one is left. What I am getting at is that Eren accomplished nothing more with Full rumbling than 80%. Heck he even accomplished less as he couldn't accomplish his friends' long life. Yes he is still the greatest mass murder who disagreed with you lol. I was saying killing everyone is just nonsense if the outcome is going to be same or worse.

Its not explicitly mentioned 200 years but its somewhat between 150-200 not 100 years since in rumbling timeline there were only Horse carts but in the last pages there's cars from 80's and 90's and the plane looks like modern fighter jets.

How can he end the conflict permanently when you yourslef stated that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left'. Eternal peace is an impossible thing to begin with. Well don't you think Historia would hate him even more if he did full rumbling and still there were civil war happening in the paradis for the reasons i already mentioned.

You are just decreasing his character so much dude. Here's the analysis, read it as to why I think you are wrong- https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1941504

Like I said conflict was possible in canon timeline also, its just that Yams decided to portray it differently.

No it was already stated that other nations do not want to have any connections with Paradis and Hizuru won't let Paradis to make connection. The threat is useful until they don't develop Nukes after that even Founding titan can't do shit. In civil war some descendants would survive but like you said- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' so it does not really make any difference, also we only saw Shiganshina or any other town getting bombed so we don't really know that everyone died or not. If whole paradis was bombed that child shouldn't be alive.

How?? It will contradict-

- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others
- chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them

With full rumbling Civil war might happen which will continue the cycle of hatred as 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' making Eren's action much more useless as he couldn't even save his friends. Trashier end than the supposedly 'current garbage end'.

The Extra pages fit the themes of SnK really well as it also shows us that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left', 'Humanity will never learn', Eternal peace and breaking the cycle of hatred is impossible. Its not like world will become lovey-dovey after Paradis is gone [which is not even fully confirmed]. They will still wage war with each other like how Marley and Fort Slava were in war for 4 years.
Modified by -X3RX3S-, Aug 2, 1:49 AM

 
Aug 2, 1:12 AM

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Aug 2, 10:46 AM

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-X3RX3S- said:
BilboBaggins365 said:

How would Full Rumbling guarantee a civil war more so than any other alternative where the Eren loyalists and those against him would still be alive? Sure Mikasa and everyone would be horrified but that's hardly different that what he left them to. 80% or 100% you are still the greatest mass murderer in history. It's like saying Hitler isn't so bad because he didn't kill every single Jew in existence.

I also don't know what you mean by if he only made enemies also where did you get that it was 200 years of peace? If you could point me to the panel because the world that they are left in looks like our world I guess the world would be in much worse state but it would be like 100 years at most into the future. It's been awhile since I read it.

Yeah I know Zeke's plan would require sacrifice but again Eren still condemns future generations of people he cares about to death plus you know the mass genocide of innocents thing. I mean if the point he could care less about his friend's descendants and just his friends fine that still incredibly stupid, dumb and short sighted when again he had the possibility of ending the conflict permanently. If I was Mikasa I would deeply hate him.

Plus people might say it's in character but sorry killing literally billions of people because of one girl he developed an emotion bond with again just makes me think this douche bag lol. That is really terrible character writing and an incredibly morally bankrupted individual. Sure I guess that could be a good character but I didn't feel that was at all developed in the case of Eren.

Full Rumbling would guarantee peace for the Eldians for a time. There would be conflict possibly yes but here is the thing like I previously said why wasn't there conflict already in the canon timeline when the Yeagerists basically nationalists realized what Eren condemned them too? A non full rumbling doesn't just give Eldia more unity than if it was full.

Plus if they went with original plan of using it as deterrent you might have gotten some of the more nationalists to come around by slaughtering Marley's invading force of the oppressors and directly working with the moderates within the government. Sure not forever but the series is right that while an external threat doesn't guarantee peace forever once you especially defeat it that threat still is incredibly useful in terms of unity.

Like you argue somehow Isayama's canon ending stops all of what you are talking about it doesn't. At least even in the event of civil war some of their descedents could survive they had no such chance against the rest of the world. Ultimately I will continue to hold to this Isayama doesn't know how to write a good political thriller/war drama because stuff like this isn't considered.

Also yeah a final Eren kills everyone tragic ending would have been better because it would at least make sense and would fit the themes of AOT better (the whole people won't stop fighting until only one is left) than whatever this current garbage is.
I never said that current ending does not gurantee that. Ofc. it can happen as you said- people won't stop fighting until only one is left. What I am getting at is that Eren accomplished nothing more with Full rumbling than 80%. Heck he even accomplished less as he couldn't accomplish his friends' long life. Yes he is still the greatest mass murder who disagreed with you lol. I was saying killing everyone is just nonsense if the outcome is going to be same or worse.

Its not explicitly mentioned 200 years but its somewhat between 150-200 not 100 years since in rumbling timeline there were only Horse carts but in the last pages there's cars from 80's and 90's and the plane looks like modern fighter jets.

How can he end the conflict permanently when you yourslef stated that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left'. Eternal peace is an impossible thing to begin with. Well don't you think Historia would hate him even more if he did full rumbling and still there were civil war happening in the paradis for the reasons i already mentioned.

You are just decreasing his character so much dude. Here's the analysis, read it as to why I think you are wrong- https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1941504

Like I said conflict was possible in canon timeline also, its just that Yams decided to portray it differently.

No it was already stated that other nations do not want to have any connections with Paradis and Hizuru won't let Paradis to make connection. The threat is useful until they don't develop Nukes after that even Founding titan can't do shit. In civil war some descendants would survive but like you said- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' so it does not really make any difference, also we only saw Shiganshina or any other town getting bombed so we don't really know that everyone died or not. If whole paradis was bombed that child shouldn't be alive.

How?? It will contradict-

- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others
- chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them

With full rumbling Civil war might happen which will continue the cycle of hatred as 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' making Eren's action much more useless as he couldn't even save his friends. Trashier end than the supposedly 'current garbage end'.

The Extra pages fit the themes of SnK really well as it also shows us that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left', 'Humanity will never learn', Eternal peace and breaking the cycle of hatred is impossible. Its not like world will become lovey-dovey after Paradis is gone [which is not even fully confirmed]. They will still wage war with each other like how Marley and Fort Slava were in war for 4 years.


Uh no if he goes 100% the possibility of being killed off by the outside world is gone. Sure there is the possibility of civil war but even in that circumstance there would be no racial cleansing for the Eldians at least and likely his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.

Secondly again if we are just basing this off judgement if time moves like it did in our timeline which seems to be the case when you consider the other jumps in the AOT world the series takes place in an advanced version of the maybe the late 1910's or 1920s. To get to the period the ending takes place in which looks like our own it's only likely 80 to 100 years ahead. That is how long Eren guaranteed peace so while Mikasa and co might get to live out their lives their children and children's children are fucked.

Also I think Historia would hate him that their future children are doomed and again either way he hasn't stopped a civil war. If Historia or anyone else cared about being humane then again Zeke or the deterrant plan is better. At least full rumbling Eldia to some degree survives the other choice saved no one long term and 80% of the world died just so a few people got to live their lives in peace confined likely on the island. Real freedom they got there lol.

Also I am not going to read another poster you are free to actually explain to me because if you can't undermine this fact there is no way his characterization is good because this doesn't make sense and it's the most crucial point for his character and the ending.

Finally Hizuru was to some degree willing they just wanted to exploit them partially to get Mikasa (regardless it would have been fun to have some actual political bargaining and intrigue in the story more so than what we got) in the end but again if Isayama's world it partially doesn't make sense why nations under Marley wouldn't try to use the titans that Eldia has to overthrow them. It's something that should be explored because while some of them view them as monsters any pragmatic politician would see yesterday's enemies as tomorrow's friends. You look at nations like India which have made friends with Anglo allies like the UK and USA to counter current China despite the past or Japan with the USA. Ultimately if Eren just uses the Rumbling to destroy invading forces it would show restraint and a lack of care for domination and smaller nations would jump at that. Sure in the future weapons could out pace and would out pace the titans but the heroes don't know how long that will take. You kinda hope for relations to be somewhat normalized and enemies defeated at least to the point of we don't want to exterminate you.

Isayama only really develops the Marley and Eldia side so we never get to see if the titans really are just enough for people to choose likely domination by Marley over maybe potential freedom supporting groups that oppressed them in the past. Like there were former solidiers willing to help them from other nations to argue it would be just these few dudes doesn't seem logical to me especially when you look at the history of international relations.

That said again personally above all even though this is possible way of developing the story for a simple end would be to have Armin and co stop Eren from using the Rumbling because then at that point it at least could have been reasonable for maybe some people in the Marlyean military who had sympathies to save them or again full destruction of the world.

Again also full Rumbling guarantees not future annihilation that is the only difference between them. So how is it the trashier end? Again explain this because you have failed to in both posts.

Modified by BilboBaggins365, Aug 2, 11:43 AM
 
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Aug 2, 10:04 PM

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BilboBaggins365 said:

Uh no if he goes 100% the possibility of being killed off by the outside world is gone. Sure there is the possibility of civil war but even in that circumstance there would be no racial cleansing for the Eldians at least and likely his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.

Secondly again if we are just basing this off judgement if time moves like it did in our timeline which seems to be the case when you consider the other jumps in the AOT world the series takes place in an advanced version of the maybe the late 1910's or 1920s. To get to the period the ending takes place in which looks like our own it's only likely 80 to 100 years ahead. That is how long Eren guaranteed peace so while Mikasa and co might get to live out their lives their children and children's children are fucked.

Also I think Historia would hate him that their future children are doomed and again either way he hasn't stopped a civil war. If Historia or anyone else cared about being humane then again Zeke or the deterrant plan is better. At least full rumbling Eldia to some degree survives the other choice saved no one long term and 80% of the world died just so a few people got to live their lives in peace confined likely on the island. Real freedom they got there lol.

Also I am not going to read another poster you are free to actually explain to me because if you can't undermine this fact there is no way his characterization is good because this doesn't make sense and it's the most crucial point for his character and the ending.

Finally Hizuru was to some degree willing they just wanted to exploit them partially to get Mikasa (regardless it would have been fun to have some actual political bargaining and intrigue in the story more so than what we got) in the end but again if Isayama's world it partially doesn't make sense why nations under Marley wouldn't try to use the titans that Eldia has to overthrow them. It's something that should be explored because while some of them view them as monsters any pragmatic politician would see yesterday's enemies as tomorrow's friends. You look at nations like India which have made friends with Anglo allies like the UK and USA to counter current China despite the past or Japan with the USA. Isayama only really develops the Marley and Eldia side so we never get to see if the titans really are just enough for people to choose likely domination by Marley over maybe potential freedom supporting groups that oppressed them in the past. Like there were former solidiers willing to help them from other nations to argue it would be just these few dudes doesn't seem logical to me especially when you look at the history of international relations.

That said again personally above all even though this is possible way of developing the story for a simple end would be to have Armin and co stop Eren from using the Rumbling because then at that point it at least could have been reasonable for maybe some people in the Marlyean military who had sympathies to save them or again full destruction of the world.

Again also full Rumbling guarantees not future annihilation that is the only difference between them. So how is it the trashier end? Again explain this because you have failed to in both posts.

So you are saying Killing each other is fine as long as its not racial. That's wierd. At what basis are saying that- 'his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.' Why can they survive the civil war, Oh wait his friend's children don't exist since he killed his friend lol. Leaving only historia's child behind and she can also get killed.

No, its not based on 1910 or 1920 because in WW1 had heavy usage of Aircrafts whereas there's no aircraft during the rumbling timeline. Also Telephone was invented in 1875 and there's no usage of telephone up until the end. So yeah My point still stands.

You are really stuck up on Zeke's plan when I clearly mentioned it was based on a big assumption that Marley and the world would cower in fear in place of developing better arsenal.

Okay I'll explain but it will be long ass-



Reasons why Other nation won't make peace treaty with Paradis-

- Marley already had the support of most of the other nation except Hizuru as we saw in DoW, even if we assume that 1 or 2 more nation joins paradis, Marley still have the upper hand with rest of the world.
- Titans were becoming worthless day by day and with invention of Nukes each and every titan would be worthless let it be Founding titan.
- So Why'd they try to make friends with those they think are devils instead of developing their arsenal even more.
- They think of them as Devils.
- Willy Already presented Eren and Paradis as the enemy of the world
- No Hizuru literally rejected Hanje's proposal for business with other nation
- Paradis need a representative outside of Paradis who is not an Eldian for negotiation and they have got none.
- Politicians may want to be friends with Paradis but I think they will take control of whole paradis. Leaving Paradis as just some colony. Paradis can't retaliate to them as they have already developed Nukes.

Also your Japan and America argument is wrong bc It was Japan who was not backing off of WW2, so America had no choice but to nuke them to make them surrender. India never had any fearful powers like Titan Power and UK was not taking revenge from India like Marley was taking from Eldians.

We got the freedom group, Zeke's group was that only. Yelena, Onyankopon and others were from different nation but you saw how it went.

Lol Ymir won't let your end happen and Eren will still do it, as its necessary for uplifting Ymir's curse. Also the world don't trust Paradis a bit. They'd think they are just putting an act or something and would force Paradis to do what the world wants to prove themselves. So Paradis ain't free.

My God how many times do I have to tell you that Paradis is not 'annihilated', we only saw a town getting bombed. If the whole Paradis was annihilated that kid won't be unscathed.

Now why Full rumbling is trash-

- Contradicting these important scenes resulting in Eren's character retcon- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others
- chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them

- Eren couldn't save his friends
- Ymir's curse is not broken since he killed Mikasa
- Due to Civil War Paradis ruins itself and Yes Historia's child or Grand Children are no exception since its War. No one gives a damn who they are.
- Racism or not Paradis got wrecked.

Now tell me what did Eren accomplished? How is this end better than the one we got lol
Modified by -X3RX3S-, Aug 2, 10:10 PM

 
Aug 2, 10:22 PM

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-X3RX3S- said:
BilboBaggins365 said:

Uh no if he goes 100% the possibility of being killed off by the outside world is gone. Sure there is the possibility of civil war but even in that circumstance there would be no racial cleansing for the Eldians at least and likely his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.

Secondly again if we are just basing this off judgement if time moves like it did in our timeline which seems to be the case when you consider the other jumps in the AOT world the series takes place in an advanced version of the maybe the late 1910's or 1920s. To get to the period the ending takes place in which looks like our own it's only likely 80 to 100 years ahead. That is how long Eren guaranteed peace so while Mikasa and co might get to live out their lives their children and children's children are fucked.

Also I think Historia would hate him that their future children are doomed and again either way he hasn't stopped a civil war. If Historia or anyone else cared about being humane then again Zeke or the deterrant plan is better. At least full rumbling Eldia to some degree survives the other choice saved no one long term and 80% of the world died just so a few people got to live their lives in peace confined likely on the island. Real freedom they got there lol.

Also I am not going to read another poster you are free to actually explain to me because if you can't undermine this fact there is no way his characterization is good because this doesn't make sense and it's the most crucial point for his character and the ending.

Finally Hizuru was to some degree willing they just wanted to exploit them partially to get Mikasa (regardless it would have been fun to have some actual political bargaining and intrigue in the story more so than what we got) in the end but again if Isayama's world it partially doesn't make sense why nations under Marley wouldn't try to use the titans that Eldia has to overthrow them. It's something that should be explored because while some of them view them as monsters any pragmatic politician would see yesterday's enemies as tomorrow's friends. You look at nations like India which have made friends with Anglo allies like the UK and USA to counter current China despite the past or Japan with the USA. Isayama only really develops the Marley and Eldia side so we never get to see if the titans really are just enough for people to choose likely domination by Marley over maybe potential freedom supporting groups that oppressed them in the past. Like there were former solidiers willing to help them from other nations to argue it would be just these few dudes doesn't seem logical to me especially when you look at the history of international relations.

That said again personally above all even though this is possible way of developing the story for a simple end would be to have Armin and co stop Eren from using the Rumbling because then at that point it at least could have been reasonable for maybe some people in the Marlyean military who had sympathies to save them or again full destruction of the world.

Again also full Rumbling guarantees not future annihilation that is the only difference between them. So how is it the trashier end? Again explain this because you have failed to in both posts.

So you are saying Killing each other is fine as long as its not racial. That's wierd. At what basis are saying that- 'his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.' Why can they survive the civil war, Oh wait his friend's children don't exist since he killed his friend lol. Leaving only historia's child behind and she can also get killed.

No, its not based on 1910 or 1920 because in WW1 had heavy usage of Aircrafts whereas there's no aircraft during the rumbling timeline. Also Telephone was invented in 1875 and there's no usage of telephone up until the end. So yeah My point still stands.

You are really stuck up on Zeke's plan when I clearly mentioned it was based on a big assumption that Marley and the world would cower in fear in place of developing better arsenal.

Okay I'll explain but it will be long ass-



Reasons why Other nation won't make peace treaty with Paradis-

- Marley already had the support of most of the other nation except Hizuru as we saw in DoW, even if we assume that 1 or 2 more nation joins paradis, Marley still have the upper hand with rest of the world.
- Titans were becoming worthless day by day and with invention of Nukes each and every titan would be worthless let it be Founding titan.
- So Why'd they try to make friends with those they think are devils instead of developing their arsenal even more.
- They think of them as Devils.
- Willy Already presented Eren and Paradis as the enemy of the world
- No Hizuru literally rejected Hanje's proposal for business with other nation
- Paradis need a representative outside of Paradis who is not an Eldian for negotiation and they have got none.
- Politicians may want to be friends with Paradis but I think they will take control of whole paradis. Leaving Paradis as just some colony.
- Paradis can't retaliate to them as they have already developed Nukes.

Also your Japan and America argument is wrong bc It was Japan who was not backing off of WW2, so america had no choice to nuke them to make them surrender. India never had any fearful powers like Titan Power and UK was not taking revenge from India like marley was taking from Eldians.

We got the freedom group, Zeke's group was that only Yelena, Onyankopon and others but you saw how it went.

Lol Ymir won't let your end happen and Eren will still do it, as its necessary for uplifting Ymir's curse. Also the world don't trust Paradis a bit. They'd think they are just putting an act or something and would force Paradis do to what the world wants to prove themselves. So Paradis ain't free.

My God how many times do I have to tell you that Paradis is not 'annihilated', we only saw a town getting bombed. If the whole Paradis was annihilated that kid won't be unscathed.

Now why Full rumbling is trash-

- Contradicting these important scenes resulting in Eren's character retcon- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others
- chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them

- Eren couldn't save his friends
- Ymir's curse is not broken since he killed Mikasa
- Due to Civil War Paradis ruins itself and Yes Historia's child or Grand Children are no exception since its War. No one gives a damn who they are.
- Racism or not Paradis is got wrecked.

Now tell me what did Eren accomplished? How is this end better than the one we got lol



For the first case no I am saying if the goal is that he cares for his friends and their descendents stoping a potential racial war that will guarantee their destruction is kinda the most important thing. Again even in the canon ending he hasn't prevented a civil war at all. None seems to have happened anyway so at least up to that point in a full rumbling ending yeah they would have had peace. Civil Wars are bad but it's completely different from a war that would be about two different racial groups trying to entirely eliminate the other.

Secondly they have armored trains, bolt action rifles, machine guns, airships and also while not the manga they do show off biplanes in the anime ending S3 Part 2 though it wasn't used beyond that. Even before the timeskip the series took place in a 19th century parallel when you consider the clothing (gas lamps) which makes sense considering everything else. So yeah it's in the 1910's or 20's equivalent.

As for your reasons I know that it was established in lore but one doesn't make sense why tons of tiny nations would buddy up with the current world oppressor. It's like saying Vietnam would totally accept Chinese domination because of the Vietnam War.

Secondly sure it's evident they are becoming less useful but they don't know actually how long military progression isn't always incredibly obvious. They don't know of nukes at this point they haven't been invented yet. Plus even in the event of nukes it wouldn't be hard to just put Eren on some boat and use the founding titan. Those gigantic titans consider what they are able to shave off would need pretty high grade ballistics I would argue to kill all of them.

Also they don't have it which is why it makes sense to play former enemies off each other while they develop them.

Again why does the world actually trust Willy an Eldian if said world wouldn't be able to trust other Eldians from Paraidse if they showed their power just against Marley and didn't act the aggressor? The guy is a devil right? Why do all of the world's politicians trust him when you can't trust devils right? The fact they can shows it would be possible for Paradise to eventually ingratiate themselves in the world play.

Again more negotiating is possible and I mean they do Onyankopon I think would be up for it. You had the dude Sasha seduced. Plus again in reality I don't buy that everyone would still be beyond working with Eldia to suit their own goals. People will do it with former enemies that are nuclear powers all the time. The only way I can buy it is if people think Eren is insane but again ways to show that you are just acting in a defensive manner.

Also again sure they might end up as colony but that's better than again fucking annihilation.


Finally I don't see how talking about the nukes is relevant at all. My point is that again enemies become friends very quickly when looking at other powers they don't trust. Again why then can the world tolerate some Eldians it's because they don't know their intent and think they are going to try and kill them all. That's a theme of AOT right? Though again that mean's a defensive posture is still possible in some cases.

Also dude it's highly likely after a group killed 80% of the world they aren't just going in there to destroy the state. Everyone else would want total genocide in revenge. Their ancestors would have brought them up in pure hate and the ecosystems out there probably were devastated.

Also for your full:

That doesn't contradict it at all? He can save his friends with full rumbling.

Secondly again using full doesn't mean he has to pass the Attack Titan at all that's only the case for deterant or Zeke.

The others WTF are you talking about.

Eren if he truly wanted to ensure peace would just use the powers of the titans to keep his friends out of harms way through Paths and then use it to wipe out the world. He may value freedom but his friends easily could have died in the OG ending if he screwed up even a bit when they were zipping around. He was content to throw them in prison while he did his thing. He really valued their freedom lol.

Also again Civil War is not ensured to be prevented in what Eren did. Plus again dude how is Paradise getting wrecked everyone else is fucking dead.

I am not going to respond to that essay on Eren until you actually explain this crucial factor because it's worthless if this can't be explained. Will be honest even a Code Geass intentional or not where Mikasa and co defeat him before he puts it into action would make more sense and I would have been semi content with that. I could at least see the world not being total gun ho on killing everyone if the titans were gone and the primary antagonist Eren was out of the way. Even if that meant Eldia likely would be treated unlikely that well in the end. Marley probably would fall apart eventually like most Imperial powers.
Modified by BilboBaggins365, Aug 2, 10:39 PM
 
Aug 2, 10:51 PM

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@-X3RX3S-

Honestly again to emphasize why you aren't going to change my mind on this nothing really changes from full rumbling to what Eren did only that Eldia doesn't get wiped off the map. So yeah you haven't provided a single reasonable explanation why partial is preferable for Eren. Provide reasons that directly respond to that instead of wasting your time coming up with a huge essay to convince me because I am going to be honest dude I am tired of talking about this series and these last comments that you responded to I intended to be my last at the very least until the final season comes out where I might pop back in just for a bit to see how anime onlys see the ending. After that I am done.

This is the major crux of my issue and I still haven't found anyone to provide a reasonable explanation that I find satisfying at all. I don't really think at this point I will. That said again if you can actually respond to this specific problem and just forget everything else please do but nothing you have said before at all convinces me Eren isn't a complete dumbass who condemned his friend's kids for literally no reason.
Modified by BilboBaggins365, Aug 2, 10:55 PM
 
Aug 2, 11:15 PM

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BilboBaggins365 said:
@-X3RX3S-

Honestly again to emphasize why you aren't going to change my mind on this nothing really changes from full rumbling to what Eren did only that Eldia doesn't get wiped off the map. So yeah you haven't provided a single reasonable explanation why partial is preferable for Eren. Provide reasons that directly respond to that instead of wasting your time coming up with a huge essay to convince me because I am going to be honest dude I am tired of talking about this series and these last comments that you responded to I intended to be my last at the very least until the final season comes out where I might pop back in just for a bit to see how anime onlys see the ending. After that I am done.

This is the major crux of my issue and I still haven't found anyone to provide a reasonable explanation that I find satisfying at all. I don't really think at this point I will. That said again if you can actually respond to this specific problem and just forget everything else please do but nothing you have said before at all convinces me Eren isn't a complete dumbass who condemned his friend's kids for literally no reason.
Okay, then I won't respond to that, Is that ok?

Due to Civil War, Eldia would still get wiped out due to crippled nation's economy, rampaging citizens, no law and order, no food supply resulting in famines and much much more which is a slow death. People living inside Eldia died, So there's no point in Eldia being in the Map or Not.

In the extra pages, the kid surviving means a lot of things like maybe all of paradis is not bombed, maybe someone else also survived. So you should change your mind that all of Paradis is bombed which is not true as we only saw a town getting bombed and nothing else. Maybe the reason for bombing can be another war or World War not just a one way bombing we will never know, watch Grave of Fireflies, there we see people surviving even after getting bombed with only having few moments to run.

Also Eren can't take away the freedom of his friends, bc that's his character. Also since his friends survived, so there's no point in arguing if they would have died or not. So in full rumbling he either kil them or do what happened in the end.

About Eren condemning his friends' kid, that's the same result for full rumbling bc 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left'.
Modified by -X3RX3S-, Aug 2, 11:22 PM

 
Aug 2, 11:23 PM

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-X3RX3S- said:
BilboBaggins365 said:
@-X3RX3S-

Honestly again to emphasize why you aren't going to change my mind on this nothing really changes from full rumbling to what Eren did only that Eldia doesn't get wiped off the map. So yeah you haven't provided a single reasonable explanation why partial is preferable for Eren. Provide reasons that directly respond to that instead of wasting your time coming up with a huge essay to convince me because I am going to be honest dude I am tired of talking about this series and these last comments that you responded to I intended to be my last at the very least until the final season comes out where I might pop back in just for a bit to see how anime onlys see the ending. After that I am done.

This is the major crux of my issue and I still haven't found anyone to provide a reasonable explanation that I find satisfying at all. I don't really think at this point I will. That said again if you can actually respond to this specific problem and just forget everything else please do but nothing you have said before at all convinces me Eren isn't a complete dumbass who condemned his friend's kids for literally no reason.
Okay, then I won't respond to that, Is that ok?

Due to Civil War, Eldia would still get wiped out due to crippled nation's economy, rampaging citizens, no law and order, no food supply resulting in famines and much much more which is a slow death.

In the extra pages, the kid surviving means a lot of things like maybe all of paradis is not bombed, maybe someone else also survived. So you should change your mind that all of Paradis is bombed which is not true as we only saw a town getting bombed and nothing else. Maybe the reason for bombing can be another war or World War not just a one way bombing we will never know, watch Grave of Fireflies, there we see people surviving even after getting bombed with only having few moments to run.

Also Eren can't take away the freedom of his friends, bc that's his character. Also since his friends survived, so there's no point in arguing if they would have died or not. So in full rumbling he either kil them or do what happened in the end.



Dude again civil war is not avoided in Eren's other solution. It's not so stop talking about it. Plus a civil war while deadly again doesn't mean game over for the state it just results in a lot of instability before someone else takes over. What are they going to do plow salt into the fields so they can't grow anything lol. No matter who takes over society could go on and again why is this not brought up in the canon ending where said civil war could and likely should have happened between the left over Yeagerists and Armin and co and whoever else?

Secondly again dude they killed 80% of the world and got away scot free. The ancestors of Marley and everyone else would be indoctrinating their kids into pure hate and desire to see them annihilated. They already wanted to before they had done anything in the last 100 years. It's hard to think they would just be okay with how the end result of history just because the titans are gone.

Also dude I know about air raids (I did a paper on their effectiveness on German morale) but it wouldn't be hard for let's say likely a population 400 million (what would be left assuming world population is comparable to our world around the same time) or more to ensure the destruction of the entirety of 1-2 million people (plenty of genocides on that level). If they can build bombers the can build landing craft to destroy them. Honestly if the entire world came together with the goal of destroying Paradise which I could see now that the rumbling likely destroyed their states and now they had a unified enemy they totally could do that.

Finally again he threw them in prison (even if it was the Jagerists he didn't object) he didn't care about the freedom about anyone else really outside of his own selfish desires. He didn't care about anyone else's opinion only his own and subjected the world to the one he envisioned. Personally I don't see how much more of a transgression using the titans power to at least restrict their movements but that's just me I guess. If the goal was to ensure their safety letting them endanger themselves didn't help. I know that is what Eren claimed I just still find that stance of his hypocritical considering some of his other actions. IDK maybe that is intentional but I don't really considering it the making of a good character.

Though again we are going over the same things and I just don't feel this is going to go anywhere.
Modified by BilboBaggins365, Aug 2, 11:26 PM
 
Aug 2, 11:36 PM

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BilboBaggins365 said:

Dude again civil war is not avoided in Eren's other solution. It's not so stop talking about it. Plus a civil war while deadly again doesn't mean game over for the state it just results in a lot of instability before someone else takes over. What are they going to do plow salt into the fields so they can't grow anything lol. No matter who takes over society could go on and again why is this not brought up in the canon ending where said civil war could and likely should have happened between the left over Yeagerists and Armin and co and whoever else?

Secondly again dude they killed 80% of the world and got away scot free. The ancestors of Marley and everyone else would be indoctrinating their kids into pure hate and desire to see them annihilated. They already wanted to before they had done anything in the last 100 years. It's hard to think they would just be okay with how the end result of history just because the titans are gone.

Also dude I know about air raids (I did a paper on their effectiveness on German morale) but it wouldn't be hard for let's say likely a population 400 million (what would be left assuming world population is comparable to our world around the same time) or more to ensure the destruction of the entirety of 1-2 million people (plenty of genocides on that level). If they can build bombers the can build landing craft to destroy them. Honestly if the entire world came together with the goal of destroying Paradise which I could see now that the rumbling likely destroyed their states and now they had a unified enemy they totally could do that.

Finally again he threw them in prison (even if it was the Jagerists he didn't object) he didn't care about the freedom about anyone else really outside of his own selfish desires. He didn't care about anyone else's opinion only his own and subjected the world to the one he envisioned. Personally I don't see how much more of a transgression using the titans power to at least restrict their movements but that's just me I guess. If the goal was to ensure their safety letting them endanger themselves didn't help.
I am talking about it is bc the end result is same even tho there's two path to reach there. You don't understand famines, do you? Growing food is only possible if someone does not burn your crops lol and we can see that happening in civil war. Like I said, there's two journey to reach the same destination. 1. Civil War 2. 8 Pages end. Its just a way of showing people will fight until only one is left.

You can't deny the 150 years of peace lol. So it means the plan was successful even tho it was hard for you to think. If world was really angry with them. They could've just did what they did but early as we saw Fort slava was unscathed.

I never said they don't have the potential but its also likely that people survived who lived in the underground[Levi's OVA], and many other who lived on the ground as well bc I can't fathom a kid surviving unscathed if the whole of PARADIS WAS BOMBED.

Oh Come On Dude, What are you saying, You remember the window scene after he beated Armin and Insulted Mikasa. It screams that he didn't wanted to do that. So he definitely cares about other and robbing their freedom and will is same as killing for him. So its quite easy to understand why he did that.

 
 
Aug 2, 11:42 PM

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-X3RX3S- said:
BilboBaggins365 said:

Dude again civil war is not avoided in Eren's other solution. It's not so stop talking about it. Plus a civil war while deadly again doesn't mean game over for the state it just results in a lot of instability before someone else takes over. What are they going to do plow salt into the fields so they can't grow anything lol. No matter who takes over society could go on and again why is this not brought up in the canon ending where said civil war could and likely should have happened between the left over Yeagerists and Armin and co and whoever else?

Secondly again dude they killed 80% of the world and got away scot free. The ancestors of Marley and everyone else would be indoctrinating their kids into pure hate and desire to see them annihilated. They already wanted to before they had done anything in the last 100 years. It's hard to think they would just be okay with how the end result of history just because the titans are gone.

Also dude I know about air raids (I did a paper on their effectiveness on German morale) but it wouldn't be hard for let's say likely a population 400 million (what would be left assuming world population is comparable to our world around the same time) or more to ensure the destruction of the entirety of 1-2 million people (plenty of genocides on that level). If they can build bombers the can build landing craft to destroy them. Honestly if the entire world came together with the goal of destroying Paradise which I could see now that the rumbling likely destroyed their states and now they had a unified enemy they totally could do that.

Finally again he threw them in prison (even if it was the Jagerists he didn't object) he didn't care about the freedom about anyone else really outside of his own selfish desires. He didn't care about anyone else's opinion only his own and subjected the world to the one he envisioned. Personally I don't see how much more of a transgression using the titans power to at least restrict their movements but that's just me I guess. If the goal was to ensure their safety letting them endanger themselves didn't help.
I am talking about it is bc the end result is same even tho there's two path to reach there. You don't understand famines, do you? Growing food is only possible if someone does not burn your crops lol and we can see that happening in civil war. Like I said, there's two journey to reach the same destination. 1. Civil War 2. 8 Pages end. Its just a way of showing people will fight until only one is left.

You can't deny the 150 years of peace lol. So it means the plan was successful even tho it was hard for you to think. If world was really angry with them. They could've just did what they did but early as we saw Fort slava was unscathed.

I never said they don't have the potential but its also likely that people survived who lived in the underground[Levi's OVA], and many other who lived on the ground as well bc I can't fathom a kid surviving unscathed if the whole of PARADIS WAS BOMBED.

Oh Come On Dude, What are you saying, You remember the window scene after he beated Armin and Insulted Mikasa. It screams that he didn't wanted to do that. So he definitely cares about other and robbing their freedom and will is same as killing for him. So its quite easy to understand why he did that.


I am aware how food is grown dude there would be famines during a civil war but whoever wins would be able to pick up after. Situations might get bad but there isn't a case I know of in history where the entire people dissolve after a civil war. It's not the same because again people who survive a civil war not one where the goal is to totally wipe them out. You see the point of civil wars is to seize the government apparatus and resources they aren't going to willfully murder ever single one of their potential new subjects.

Secondly I would be fine with an ending that has conflict within Eldia but the world outside is gone. It would be more logical than what Eren left their descendents too. They had a fighting chance in that ending of survival. Plus again you keep on this civil war thing but again canon ending didn't prevent that okay? It didn't there is no reason it would be more likely in the og ending compared to full. So this whole discussion is pointless.

Also it's more likely it's 80-100 years of peace but again I mean define success if it's just hey Mikasa gets to live it nice fine but IDK personally if I was Mikasa I would be kinda bothered what I am likely leaving my grand daughter too. If you just care about your own personal satisfaction yeah sure it's great. Plus again dude invasion equals they are going to be able to land troops and kill everyone. You could just freaking poison the air with nerve gas or something even.

Finally he was fine leaving them in prison while he executed his plan. The only reason they had opportunity to get out at all was because everything went to shit with Reiner showing up way before Eren planned for them to. I didn't realize prison was freedom.
 
Aug 2, 11:58 PM

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BilboBaggins365 said:
-X3RX3S- said:
I am talking about it is bc the end result is same even tho there's two path to reach there. You don't understand famines, do you? Growing food is only possible if someone does not burn your crops lol and we can see that happening in civil war. Like I said, there's two journey to reach the same destination. 1. Civil War 2. 8 Pages end. Its just a way of showing people will fight until only one is left.

You can't deny the 150 years of peace lol. So it means the plan was successful even tho it was hard for you to think. If world was really angry with them. They could've just did what they did but early as we saw Fort slava was unscathed.

I never said they don't have the potential but its also likely that people survived who lived in the underground[Levi's OVA], and many other who lived on the ground as well bc I can't fathom a kid surviving unscathed if the whole of PARADIS WAS BOMBED.

Oh Come On Dude, What are you saying, You remember the window scene after he beated Armin and Insulted Mikasa. It screams that he didn't wanted to do that. So he definitely cares about other and robbing their freedom and will is same as killing for him. So its quite easy to understand why he did that.


I am aware how food is grown dude there would be famines during a civil war but whoever wins would be able to pick up after. Situations might get bad but there isn't a case I know of in history where the entire people dissolve after a civil war. It's not the same because again people who survive a civil war not one where the goal is to totally wipe them out. You see the point of civil wars is to seize the government apparatus and resources they aren't going to willfully murder ever single one of their potential new subjects.

Secondly I would be fine with an ending that has conflict within Eldia but the world outside is gone. It would be more logical than what Eren left their descendents too. They had a fighting chance in that ending of survival. Plus again you keep on this civil war thing but again canon ending didn't prevent that okay? It didn't there is no reason it would be more likely in the og ending compared to full. So this whole discussion is pointless.

Also it's more likely it's 80-100 years of peace but again I mean define success if it's just hey Mikasa gets to live it nice fine but IDK personally if I was Mikasa I would be kinda bothered what I am likely leaving my grand daughter too. If you just care about your own personal satisfaction yeah sure it's great. Plus again dude invasion equals they are going to be able to land troops and kill everyone. You could just freaking poison the air with nerve gas or something even.

Finally he was fine leaving them in prison while he executed his plan. The only reason they had opportunity to get out at all was because everything went to shit with Reiner showing up way before Eren planned for them to. I didn't realize prison was freedom.
Civil War leading to Famine, Famine leads Epidemic, Due to Civil War there's no med. for Epidemic. So you know the result.

Eh, its 150 years as Blimps[1852], bolt action rifle[1824], Armored train[1852] so there's that.

Look we just saw the planes, Ok and nothing else. You are just making your interpretation worse and worse by thinking all of this that they want all of them to be wiped out. it maybe a war bc of infinite reasons. Also Eldians may even started to live outside in 150 years. By your logic, the peace shouldn't have existed as People would be more angry when the rumbling was fresh not after 150 years.

Paradis also advanced, so they also have troops, meds and everything to counter the toxic gases and other things you mentioned.

I didn't meant Prison is freedom, What I meant was if he forcefully restrained them against their will then its same as killing them for him. Got it??
Modified by -X3RX3S-, Aug 3, 12:01 AM

 
Aug 3, 12:10 AM

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-X3RX3S- said:
BilboBaggins365 said:


I am aware how food is grown dude there would be famines during a civil war but whoever wins would be able to pick up after. Situations might get bad but there isn't a case I know of in history where the entire people dissolve after a civil war. It's not the same because again people who survive a civil war not one where the goal is to totally wipe them out. You see the point of civil wars is to seize the government apparatus and resources they aren't going to willfully murder ever single one of their potential new subjects.

Secondly I would be fine with an ending that has conflict within Eldia but the world outside is gone. It would be more logical than what Eren left their descendents too. They had a fighting chance in that ending of survival. Plus again you keep on this civil war thing but again canon ending didn't prevent that okay? It didn't there is no reason it would be more likely in the og ending compared to full. So this whole discussion is pointless.

Also it's more likely it's 80-100 years of peace but again I mean define success if it's just hey Mikasa gets to live it nice fine but IDK personally if I was Mikasa I would be kinda bothered what I am likely leaving my grand daughter too. If you just care about your own personal satisfaction yeah sure it's great. Plus again dude invasion equals they are going to be able to land troops and kill everyone. You could just freaking poison the air with nerve gas or something even.

Finally he was fine leaving them in prison while he executed his plan. The only reason they had opportunity to get out at all was because everything went to shit with Reiner showing up way before Eren planned for them to. I didn't realize prison was freedom.
Civil War leading to Famine, Famine leads Epidemic, Due to Civil War there's no med. for Epidemic. So you know the result.

Eh, its 150 years as Blimps[1852], bolt action rifle[1824], Armored train[1852] so there's that.

Look we just saw the planes, Ok and nothing else. You are just making your interpretation worse and worse by thinking all of this that they want all of them to be wiped out. it maybe a war bc of infinite reasons. Also Eldians may even started to live outside in 150 years. By your logic, the peace shouldn't have existed as People would be more angry when the rumbling was fresh not after 150 years.

Paradis also advanced, so they also have troops, meds and everything to counter the toxic gases and other things you mentioned.

I didn't meant Prison is freedom, What I meant was if he forcefully restrained them against their will then its same as killing them for him. Got it??


The result is some people die and others live? Again better chance to survive than a genocidal war they would have no chance against especially now the titans are gone.

Bolt action rifles were first invented then yes but they weren't widely adopted until the late 19th century. In the American Civil War most common guns used like the Enfield P1853 rifled musket were not bolt action weapons. Using dirigibles to bomb is a pretty notable occurrence during the first world war. Plus armoured trains again were relevant. No it's very clearly the early 20th century plus while it's not canon in the manga the anime makes reference to bi planes. You are making the mistake of using invention years as when they were widely used in the military plus they had machine guns those aren't gatling guns where they wind them to fire from what I could see. The artillery is too high powered from anything that isn't late 19th century or early 20th century as well. They also got dreadnoughts from what I can tell and those didn't get invented until 1906.

Secondly how am I making it worse? It's a fair assumption because how the world viewed them. I mean you can interpret it however you want but to me that is pretty apocalyptic.

Finally got what? My point is Eren might feel that way but there are some actions that demonstrate otherwise and if that's how he sees it fine but I feel restraining them to do whatever he wants vs letting them pretend to fight him while he still gets what he wants to be pretty much the same end. Being restrained and watching helplessly (which they did anyways to some degree) is not the same as death but whatever.

I really feel the conversation has run the course here so I am done. Have a good day or evening or whatever.
 
Aug 3, 12:44 AM

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Posts: 202
BilboBaggins365 said:
-X3RX3S- said:
Civil War leading to Famine, Famine leads Epidemic, Due to Civil War there's no med. for Epidemic. So you know the result.

Eh, its 150 years as Blimps[1852], bolt action rifle[1824], Armored train[1852] so there's that.

Look we just saw the planes, Ok and nothing else. You are just making your interpretation worse and worse by thinking all of this that they want all of them to be wiped out. it maybe a war bc of infinite reasons. Also Eldians may even started to live outside in 150 years. By your logic, the peace shouldn't have existed as People would be more angry when the rumbling was fresh not after 150 years.

Paradis also advanced, so they also have troops, meds and everything to counter the toxic gases and other things you mentioned.

I didn't meant Prison is freedom, What I meant was if he forcefully restrained them against their will then its same as killing them for him. Got it??


The result is some people die and others live? Again better chance to survive than a genocidal war they would have no chance against especially now the titans are gone.

Bolt action rifles were first invented then yes but they weren't widely adopted until the late 19th century. In the American Civil War most common guns used like the Enfield P1853 rifled musket were not bolt action weapons. Using dirigibles to bomb is a pretty notable occurrence during the first world war. Plus armoured trains again were relevant. No it's very clearly the early 20th century plus while it's not canon in the manga the anime makes reference to bi planes. You are making the mistake of using invention years as when they were widely used in the military plus they had machine guns those aren't gatling guns where they wind them to fire from what I could see. The artillery is too high powered from anything that isn't late 19th century or early 20th century as well. They also got dreadnoughts from what I can tell and those didn't get invented until 1906.

Secondly how am I making it worse? It's a fair assumption because how the world viewed them. I mean you can interpret it however you want but to me that is pretty apocalyptic.

Finally got what? My point is Eren might feel that way but there are some actions that demonstrate otherwise and if that's how he sees it fine but I feel restraining them to do whatever he wants vs letting them pretend to fight him while he still gets what he wants to be pretty much the same end. Being restrained and watching helplessly (which they did anyways to some degree) is not the same as death but whatever.

I really feel the conversation has run the course here so I am done. Have a good day or evening or whatever.
The result is the death almost as much people as in 8 pages if not more.

The U.S. and most other armies had adopted these guns by the late 1800s. Machine Gun was invented in 1884 for the sole reason of war, so they quickly adopted. Yes, Armored trains were relevant in WW 1 but they were also relevant in American Civil War [1852]. I am also saying that their world is late 19th century ,i.e., upto 1880 not more than that bc telephones do not exist in their world and telephone was invented in 1878. But I won't force you accept it and the 8 pages looks like 21st centurisque.

Again why your assumption is wrong bc it does not explain why they waited this long to attack, why did they let Paradis to develop if its not a war. The sooner they attacked the weaker the Paradis and they had power to do so as Fort slava and many other nations were unscathed.

Okay, but I'll say you should view the end with a bit of optimism as you are being really pessimistic with the end. Have a Good Day.

 
Aug 3, 12:47 PM

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Posts: 1205
Because

Armin: why did you do this eren?
Eren: idk I just felt like it, only ymir knows
Armin: oh I see, no problem bro, thank you for becoming a mass murderer for us!

I agree with mostly what everyone else said, but this is the part that pisses me off the most.
 
 
Aug 3, 5:56 PM

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Posts: 7346
I’m just here reminiscing of chapter 131 trying to figure out why Ymir was smiling at people getting trampled during the rumbling and how Ramzi was able to see her even though he wasnt an eldian? There’s just so much garbage left unexplained I’ve lost count of how many subplot was opened and not closed by the end of the story. “Only Ymir knows”, what a cop out.
 
Aug 3, 6:27 PM

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Posts: 1992
I don't care either way.
The one and only Magnificent Bitch.
 
Aug 4, 3:26 AM

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Posts: 202
MuZe- said:
Because

Armin: why did you do this eren?
Eren: idk I just felt like it, only ymir knows
Armin: oh I see, no problem bro, thank you for becoming a mass murderer for us!

I agree with mostly what everyone else said, but this is the part that pisses me off the most.

 
Aug 4, 5:49 AM

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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1909
1.It completely butcher almost every character especially eren and mikasa

2.Looked like shit,plot holes everywhere,every plot points and mystery are told very well but they ended up making it worse by the ending

3.The commendable writing and yet character development is ruined and wasted

4.The buildup for Ragnarok ending is absolutely wasted,on surface, it's absolutely terrifying,but in reality, it's all ruined by the monstrosity of power of friendship

 
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