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because it's more problem that u want to see everything stupidly simple instead of understand what person can think at that moment. You can't look that everything will be simple as you want, because human feelings are not ; ) Mod Edit: Removed baiting. |
DeadlyRavenJun 3, 2021 12:30 PM
ElPsyKongroo69 said: This explanation might help you !!!Sairentou said: because it's more problem that u want to see everything stupidly simple instead of understand what person can think at that moment. You can't look that everything will be simple as you want, because human feelings are not ; ) Problem: Disgusted with the way "HUMANS" treat AI. Solution: Destroy all AI Its almost comically funny how stupid that is XD. With the flashback at the end of the last episode and what we learn during this one, we finally get a clear picture of Yugo and what drives him. Yugo is creeped out by the whole uncanny valley surrounding AI: Are AIs tools or people? At times they are treated as one or the other—or both at the same time. The funeral for Yugo's piano teacher is the ultimate example of this: his burnt remains are left for all to see while his final moments alive are being played on a big-screen TV. Imagine doing that for a human who died in the same way and it's not hard to see why Yugo would become so viscerally disgusted. As a kid and later young adult, he was convinced that the only way to solve his complicated feelings about how society treats AIs was to destroy them all—to simply dodge the need to search for an answer by obliterating the problem. On a deeper level, Yugo couldn't accept the way that AIs evolve. Why would a piano teacher robot run into danger to save human lives? Why would a singer AI fight to stop the robot apocalypse? A tool should just do what it is designed for. But really, at its core, Yugo's problem is that evolved AIs seem to always view their lives to be worth less than humans'—especially the ones they personally care about. Even when saving lives would result in their own destruction—and thus the failure of their individual missions—AIs still choose to save human lives. Yugo's past and his encounters with Vivy have driven him to seek out why this is—to the point where he's become an almost fully robotic cyborg in order to find the answer. All this comes together in his final question for Vivy: “Did my teacher... did he suffer the way a human would have?” If he didn't, then he was nothing more than a tool. But if he was filled with mental anguish—at the failure of his mission, at leaving his student behind—then wasn't he, for the lack of a better word, “human” as well? The sad truth is that neither Diva nor Vivy can answer this question for him. After all, neither are human. Source: Anime news network Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
DeadlyRavenJun 3, 2021 12:30 PM
| This episode was a banger. The animation was on point. It had great fights and some feels |
| Go check out my latest review: https://myanimelist.net/profile/YeeYeeAss/reviews |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: Zean_9435 said: This explanation might help you !!! With the flashback at the end of the last episode and what we learn during this one, we finally get a clear picture of Yugo and what drives him. Yugo is creeped out by the whole uncanny valley surrounding AI: Are AIs tools or people? At times they are treated as one or the other—or both at the same time. The funeral for Yugo's piano teacher is the ultimate example of this: his burnt remains are left for all to see while his final moments alive are being played on a big-screen TV. Imagine doing that for a human who died in the same way and it's not hard to see why Yugo would become so viscerally disgusted. As a kid and later young adult, he was convinced that the only way to solve his complicated feelings about how society treats AIs was to destroy them all—to simply dodge the need to search for an answer by obliterating the problem. On a deeper level, Yugo couldn't accept the way that AIs evolve. Why would a piano teacher robot run into danger to save human lives? Why would a singer AI fight to stop the robot apocalypse? A tool should just do what it is designed for. But really, at its core, Yugo's problem is that evolved AIs seem to always view their lives to be worth less than humans'—especially the ones they personally care about. Even when saving lives would result in their own destruction—and thus the failure of their individual missions—AIs still choose to save human lives. Yugo's past and his encounters with Vivy have driven him to seek out why this is—to the point where he's become an almost fully robotic cyborg in order to find the answer. All this comes together in his final question for Vivy: “Did my teacher... did he suffer the way a human would have?” If he didn't, then he was nothing more than a tool. But if he was filled with mental anguish—at the failure of his mission, at leaving his student behind—then wasn't he, for the lack of a better word, “human” as well? The sad truth is that neither Diva nor Vivy can answer this question for him. After all, neither are human. Source: Anime news network That is still a very stupid reason for him to want to destroy all AIs. Dodging an answer is fine but devoting your whole life and very fibre of your being to do so is highly questionable. He feels disgust at humans for treating AI in a disgusting manner so he takes it out on the AI. Do you not see the problem here? Kakitani doesn't like AI because in his mind they are either robots or humans, no in between, but overall disliked the idea of them being human, so he went fully against all AIs. It's this "half-way" things on both the AI side and human side that disgusts Kakitani. If AIs didn't exist in the first place, the suffering he's experienced wouldn't have occurred. His teacher wouldn't have sacrificed himself if he just stuck to his programming. He also wouldn't have had to witness the hypocritical "funeral" of his teacher if he was just a regular machine. To be honest, I think he's a hard to understand character, but I still kinda like him haha. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
DeadlyRavenJun 3, 2021 12:29 PM
ElPsyKongroo69 said: AponX said: Kakitani doesn't like AI because in his mind they are either robots or humans, no in between, but overall disliked the idea of them being human, so he went fully against all AIs. It's this "half-way" things on both the AI side and human side that disgusts Kakitani. If AIs didn't exist in the first place, the suffering he's experienced wouldn't have occurred. His teacher wouldn't have sacrificed himself if he just stuck to his programming. He also wouldn't have had to witness the hypocritical "funeral" of his teacher if he was just a regular machine. To be honest, I think he's a hard to understand character, but I still kinda like him haha. He really doesn't have sufficient motivation as a character to devote his whole life and even more to destroy AI. Unlike Toak he didn't fundamentally have a problem with AI. His main gripe was the treatment of AI and his teacher's sacrifice, neither of which warrant complete AI destruction. The anime tried to use him to portray the problem of the blurred line between AI and humanity but it fell flat on its face. They can still redeem it in the coming episodes but considering that he is dead I doubt that will be the case. You're misunderstanding something. He wanted to destroy AIs but that was when he was younger, it all changed when he met Vivy so he pursued her in search of an answer to his question. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
DeadlyRavenJun 3, 2021 12:28 PM
* |
Gilgameshuu said: No use ; don't waste your oxygen on them , they will keep one arguing ,ElPsyKongroo69 said: He really doesn't have sufficient motivation as a character to devote his whole life and even more to destroy AI. Unlike Toak he didn't fundamentally have a problem with AI. His main gripe was the treatment of AI and his teacher's sacrifice, neither of which warrant complete AI destruction. The anime tried to use him to portray the problem of the blurred line between AI and humanity but it fell flat on its face. They can still redeem it in the coming episodes but considering that he is dead I doubt that will be the case. You're misunderstanding something. He wanted to destroy AIs but that was when he was younger, it all changed when he met Vivy so he pursued her in search of an answer to his question. |
| The interaction kinda confused me, ngl. I come here to appreciated more of another nice and beautiful action packed of these arc strength, nothing less to other elements. But well, for me, at least its reconcile the way of thinking for both of parties. Either to the lost side, i.e Antonio-Orphelia and that Ai Kakitani, and the winning side aka Diva and Matsumoto. Matsumoto unbeliavably still op af after he found Diva out using those cube wave tactics. Guess for the later 20 years in the future, his massive resource kinda still overcome the progress of technology there. Welp, that's Matsumoto for yah! Him shouted about the mission sounds not like the one I knew before. He was too sentimentil facing Antonio revelation. Proly because his intention still vague af. But, as i said before, their convoluted battle and dialogue against each others kinda opened up how Matsumoto real feels about his partner; on these arc case, its Diva. The same with Vivy to the previous cases, whose actually hiding her own personality inside that archive. Well, regarding Kakitani statement about the revelations from the future. I assume that its kinda the last villain which gonna burden Matsumoto and Vivy more to carry out their future mission, directly, or indirectly. However, before that, i need to know how's good Vivy and whats her opinion about all the mess, after disappearing this whole arc.... |
 Hide and seek is the best offline games on this fatamorgana-called-world-thing. Please comment nicely. I am newbie here. I'm level  on mal-badges. View my badges  |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: I am not insulting , it's just a warning to my fellow mal users, Zean_9435 said: No use ; don't waste your oxygen on them , they will keep one arguing , Can't have a decent discussion anymore smh. If you can't come up with decent reasons you stoop to insults. Sad About 3-4 people have lost all their stamina arguing with you , they have put forward enough reasoning but still no use , |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: You haven't got enough reasoning then I think no one can give you more then that you have already got , seriously you are just doing a pointless argumentZean_9435 said: I am not insulting , it's just a warning to my fellow mal users, About 3-4 people have lost all their stamina arguing with you , they have put forward enough reasoning but still no use , If it was 'enough' reasoning I wouldn't still be here. All Im doing is stating the problems I have with the show. It's not my fault you can't handle criticism of a show you like. |
Zean_9435 said: If he found some plot holes, inconsistencies or details that were objectively wrong, I would continue arguing with him by stating facts to defend the show. Or if he gets confused about something i can give explanations like other guys did.ElPsyKongroo69 said: I am not insulting , it's just a warning to my fellow mal users, Can't have a decent discussion anymore smh. If you can't come up with decent reasons you stoop to insults. Sad About 3-4 people have lost all their stamina arguing with you , they have put forward enough reasoning but still no use , But when he said AI=Human is stupid. And Kakitani's motivation was not convincing enough to him, given that he fully knows what was going on then what can we do about it? It's HIS problem, something subjective and it doesn't change the way we see the show so... |
newluminousMay 25, 2021 9:48 AM
ElPsyKongroo69 said: I don't even like this show that much to begin with. I have my own problems with this show and Vivy is like just above average and kinda overrated to me.newluminous said: If he found some plot holes, inconsistencies or details that were objectively wrong, I would continue arguing with him by stating facts to defend the show. Or if he gets confused about something i can give explanations like other guys did. But when he said AI=Human is stupid. And Kakitani's motivation was not convincing enough to him, given that he fully knows what was going on then what can we do about it? It's something subjective and it doesn't change the way we see the show so... I never said AI=Human was stupid. I said the way it was portrayed in Vivy was lacking. And again if you have an explanation for why Kakitani would want to destroy all AI just because he has a problem with the way AI was treated then I would love to hear it. I never said Vivy was objectively a bad show, all my problems with it were my own opinions. People really cant take criticism or differing opinions of a show they like. But what you said was your subjective opinion. It's not an actual flaw that everyone can clearly see and agree with so i just think we should stop because we have argued long enough. I don't say your opinions were wrong but if people could understand what was portrayed i don't think the show was lacking in something |
| AS YOU LIKE MY FUCKING PLEASURE..... hikari wo mezashite umaretekita...!!!! Bless lord WIT |
“ If there was no one else within a 5-kilometer radius from Shimamura, and she was in a deep sleep and an all-knowing deity just happened to reassure me that she wasn’t going to wake up the next 24 hours, maybe I’d get bored after 23 hours and I might kiss her once to relieve some boredom... ” |
| The ending was great. The combination of the song Harmony of One's Heart, the animation, and the script is amazing. |
Gilgameshuu said: I see that a lot of people are not as impressed with this episode compared to Episode 6 or even Episode 4 but I think this episode is the most meaningful so far, while Episode 4 and 6 might have been more emotional, the themes and messages presented in this episode is the best and most thought-provoking so far. This episode wasn't simply just eyecandy, and it seems a lot of people focused too much on that and thus became confused and lost on what the message this episode was trying to portray that is told through the perspectives of Antonio and Kakitani, two separate, individual stories interwoven together seamlessly, Tappei likes writing events and stories that are happening at the same time then eventually these separate stories will come together as one, and build an overall theme, and I believe this episode showcased that beautifully. First we have Antonio and Ophelia. Antonio believed that Ophelia who's mission is the sing to make people happy, but she has not fully achieved what she was capable of, and so as her partner AI who's mission is to support her, believing he could fulfill her mission better, he took supporting her literally and took over her body, and succeeded, he was able to fulfill both his mission of supporting her and her mission of making people happy, but we learn that what he truly wanted was for her, Ophelia to sing only for him, however as he had taken over her, that was no longer possible. While he was able to achieve better feats than what Ophelia herself did, he felt like his own singing was inferior to hers, like there was something he was missing, but he couldn't find what it was so as he felt like it was not the ideal singing. Ophelia had amazing singing, but she lacked the confidence, to which Antonio overcame when he took over her body but as a result he lacked something else instead, there was something in Ophelia's singing that is superior, and no matter how much success he gained he couldn't achieve that ideal singing which led to him deciding to self-destruct which started the whole First AI Suicide that we know Diva and Matsumoto are trying to prevent. But we learn in this episode that the reason Ophelia is able to sing like that is because she was singing for Antonio, but Antonio was only singing to make the people, the audience happy as it was Ophelia's mission, and that was what Antonio was missing. Another important thing is that it develops Matsumoto, we see multiple instances throughout the show of Matsumoto simply wanting to do the Singularity Project by just himself without Vivy, but every time he never did and always stayed and relied on Vivy, Antonio is a what Matsumoto would have become if he took the same path as him and left his partner to fulfill his mission by himself. Now we go to Kakitani's part of the episode, arguably one of the best written character in the series so far. We are presented once again with this recurring question: "What are AIs? are they simply just tools are are they "human" in some way?" We see instances where they are treated as tools, as human and even both, like with Kakitani's teacher's funeral, they were trying to treat him as human at the same time showing in full video to everyone his final moments like he is simply just an AI, so which is it? Are they treating him as an AI or a Human? How AIs are treated disgusted Kakitani and the only way he saw for that problem to end is if all AIs were eliminated, that's why he joined Toak. He believed that the continuous evolution of AI is a problem, they should just stick to what their sole purpose is, their mission, and not go any further, if they simply did just what they were born to do then his teacher wouldn't have died, why did he save everyone in the crash accident even though it resulted in his demise and the failure to fulfill his own mission? The reason he lives? That's why he obsessed over Vivy, he was an AI who reminded him of his teacher, that's why he became part-AI to find Vivy and seek her for an answer to his question, "That day... the day that teacher saved my life... Did my teacher... did he suffer the same way a human would have?" If he did could he be considered human? or if he didn't then he was simply just a tool. However as Vivy/Diva isn't human she doesn't have an answer to his question. We learned a lot of things, namely that there is someone else from the future. They have gave Kakitani the logical bullet(Funimation has it translated as palette for some reason but I'm pretty sure it's a mistranslation.) and the Electronic Warfare Program which he gave to Antonio, and we will probably get more answers in these last 4 episodes as we near the end of the 100 year journey, only 40 more years left. Then we get to the final scene between Diva and Vivy, the song lyrics perfectly reflect the scene. Goodbye Diva and welcome back Vivy. I was really confused during the episode, but after reading this everything made much more sense! thank you. Even with all the confusion, i must say the Diva vs Kakitani fight animation was beautiful. And the end of the episode with Diva and Vivy was also sad yet sweet.. |
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| god this episode was great im guessing vivy wont be able to sing anymore since singing was divas mission vivys is an honorable mission as well but its been separated from singing for so long i've been missing matsumoto and vivys relationship for so long, im happy that they will reunite now |
| So oldest an AI can be is about 60 according to this timeline - although I guess one can say Diva died of unnatural causes. It's actually really cool how they portray her age (from her mannerisms, to her visuals even though she looks mostly the same). Still not even AIs can avoid viruses I guess. Super interesting how well they unconsciously tie up loose ends. For examples two "souls"/purposes existing simultaneously in one body. What an AI does when conflicted... how Vivi can continue on her journey despite the sense that she encountered a paradox. I guess it never occurred to her initially that keeping humans and AIs in balance--even if it means taking the route of minimal deaths possible---it will mean pain and sadness which is contrary to Diva and all of AIs' goals to ensure happiness. Interesting that they don't express it explicitly; I guess such a definition is too diificult to express in words. Diva's song really did an excellent job of portraying that goal though. As we see with her music, her improvement in her songstressing is visibly apparent based on the depth of her singing. I guess life and resonating with memories is the key purpose in life? Or am I just off in the deep end. |
| The fight scenes were top notch. And that farewell song of the outgoing Diva was amazing. I'm happy to get back Vivy but sad to have Diva go away. Antonio and Ophelia's story and their last moments were emotional and mostly it was understandable but about Kakitani and his teacher...their story seems to be too twisted for me to understand. So, should I take Antonio's statement that he wanted Ophelia all for himself as Kakitani's too like he wanted his teacher all for himself...since Vivy and Matsumoto didn't let Kakitani finish... It seems like the teacher getting destroyed had emotionally affected Kakitani a lot. Gilgameshuu said: Now we go to Kakitani's part of the episode, arguably one of the best written character in the series so far. We are presented once again with this recurring question: "What are AIs? are they simply just tools are are they "human" in some way?" We see instances where they are treated as tools, as human and even both, like with Kakitani's teacher's funeral, they were trying to treat him as human at the same time showing in full video to everyone his final moments like he is simply just an AI, so which is it? Are they treating him as an AI or a Human? How AIs are treated disgusted Kakitani and the only way he saw for that problem to end is if all AIs were eliminated, that's why he joined Toak. He believed that the continuous evolution of AI is a problem, they should just stick to what their sole purpose is, their mission, and not go any further, if they simply did just what they were born to do then his teacher wouldn't have died, why did he save everyone in the crash accident even though it resulted in his demise and the failure to fulfill his own mission? The reason he lives? That's why he obsessed over Vivy, he was an AI who reminded him of his teacher, that's why he became part-AI to find Vivy and seek her for an answer to his question, "That day... the day that teacher saved my life... Did my teacher... did he suffer the same way a human would have?" If he did could he be considered human? or if he didn't then he was simply just a tool. However as Vivy/Diva isn't human she doesn't have an answer to his question. Thank You, your explanation really made it easier to understand. |
| For every year Vivy gets closer to Matsumoto's era, the harder the opponents are for her since she's still in her 1.0 version having to fight against more advanced androids like Yugo's version equipped with weapons and hacking software. Unless Matsumoto upgrades her with weapon mastery programs on top of her hand combat programing, she'll get beat quite easily. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
| That was a pretty sad and unique part at the end. I didn't think they'd go down the route of the current Diva being her own separate thing that fades away. Nicely done though. |
| Yuritopia FTW!!!!!!!!! BANZAI TO YURI !!!!!!!!!!!! |
| So Kakitani does have outside help. Toak is deeper and bigger than imagined. |
 Novels I have read/am reading pending approval: since November 10 2022 |
| This is probably the cleanest hand to hand combat released this year. This is peak AoT-level stuff from Wit and I love it. |
| Thread Cleaned Removed quite a bit of chatting. Please use your comments or private messages if you want to chat about other topics with a specific user. |
| and here it is again, something about this just doesnt convince me at all. I guess I just dont really get the setting. This whole "AIs only have one mission yet they can do literally anything as long as they justify it with the mission" Also robots having emotions just for the sake of it? AI is code, just copy it. If its not corrupted it cant die. Should have gone with the "lost memories from after the backup" instead, atleast that fits the setting. This is the same problem Detroit Become Human already had, the robots dont become human, they just suddenly are. What do you mean Cubeman is Viviys partner, he disappears for DECADES and shows up for a couple of days and thats it. Going to miss Diva though, she had good MC energy compared to Vivy. PS: Did terrorist boy turn out to be robo sexual or whats up with his weird attachment to a robot playing piano? PPS: its about time they reveal some massive hidden plot twist about the whole "saving the future" thing. Messing with the past never goes well, especially when the one tasked with it doesnt understand that delaying something is not the same as stopping it from happening (like AI suicide) |
Comander-07Jun 4, 2021 6:53 AM
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Well now things are clearer for what did Antonio to Ophelia's program, and that was tragic, especially that end :/ The fight scenes were just so beautiful, and now it seems like Diva is gone and Vivy is back! |
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| action scenes were great, osts were too, cant really point out everything but this is by far my favorite episode so far. last scene with diva and vivy was nice too, with her new song in the bg. antonio's still a fuckin bitch tho |
| Again, the writing is getting extremely cheesy, specially now that's completely not holding back on AI not working as an AI should. It's really hard to suspend my disbelief up till that point, but I guess the low standard from the anime community allow they getting invested in the emotional points of the scenes. |
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| I had to backward for like 3 times those Superb combat scenes. Truly splendid episode. |
| Three episodes spent in exploring (kinda) Vivy's original mission (including alter-ego Diva-Oneesan giving the performance of her life span) yet she still couldn't find the meaning of "sing with the heart". P R O G R E S S. Easily, the worst arc this show has presented so far. The reason of Antonio's twisted behaviour being him developing some sort of possessive love for Ophelia felt corny as hell and the Toak dude going mental was completely unbearable. Also, call me dumb but seriously, I didn't understand shit about his logic nor why he started hating AIs. I mean, he got mad because his piano instructor was treated (quite respectfully, I must add) as both human and AI at his funeral and... he felt so disgusted by it that he decided to join an Anti-AI terrorist faction with the sole purpose of eradicating all AIs...? Like... that sure is a huge stretch, huh? |
SouthRzVaJun 11, 2021 11:15 PM
| GREAT. WHAT A GREAT CHAPTER. Everything was so good and the final song and scene was amazing. Goodbye Ophelia , goodbye Diva :'( |
| More than half of the episodes thus far were really good, but this was the best of them, things really had to go to shit... MegamiRem said: I wanted the old Vivy back but not this way damn it. #Respect for Diva, we only saw her for a few episodes but she was a great girl. Antonio's final moment with Ophelia was quite emotional. So he was just jealous and wanted her all to himself. The action scene was really good and Matsumoto was great as usual. Yeah, Diva really grown on me, that farewell was very well handled and sad. But also, Ophelia still died anyway, I mean, look to almost every introduced character, especially the Diva's models, they were all good girls, and the outcome is always SHIT for them, Estella, Grace and now Ophelia, like common, STOP destroying them! You could say Diva herself was the most recent victim, Vivy is hopeless, no matter what she can't save any of them... Of course, that adds more appeal to the plot for some, it is definitely more emotional that way, but sooner or later people will want to feel happy as well, Vivy life has been nothing but tragedy, and even in her moment of rest tragedy still ensued. I hope this anime ends on a happier note because of enough of all this suffering. |
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| Matsumoton asked Diva for an answer - she said he has to listen to her song. I cant remember the question though - can anyone help me? Btw... I love this anime. What a hidden gem. |
| My only regret is having regrets! |
| Hot damn that fight scene... stuff like that is what makes this medium worth every single second. Didn't care for the motivations of Kakitani or Antonio, although I can see where they're coming from. |
| Oh my god, I'm tearing up from how good this episode was.. Holy Moly! Each Episode getting better and better. Absolutely Fantastic in every single aspect. Let's give a round of applause for WIT Studio... 👏 |
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| HOLYY FAQ!!! THE FIGHTING SCENES AND ANIMATION ARE TOO GREAT!!! THE REALISM OF THE CHARACTERS ARE SO SURREAL AND SCARY AT THE SAME TIME ON HOW FAR THE ANIMATION CAN GET LOL. POOR OPHELIA SHE DESERVE TO BE HAPPY AND THIS A.I ANTONIO RUINED IT AHHH BECAUSE OF SOME BS MISUNDERSTANDING. POOR GIRL. |
| B O C C H I S W E E P |
| Incredible fight and also teamwork of Diva and Matsumoto there. I guess its the end of Kakitani and also an emotional end of Ophelia and Antonio. Even though I wanted the old Vivy back its kinda sad that Diva was erased at the ed. |
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| This whole thing about "Diva" becoming a complete separate mind from "Vivy" seemed so unnecessary to me. Why couldn't the Vivy we started out with just learned from experience over the many years since her last mission and gradually develop a more confident personality? That would have been more interesting IMO. Seems like just a way of shoehorning another "sad" death into the story. |
epidemia78Jul 18, 2021 1:57 PM
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