First anime I have seen that tackles the issue of racism, forced conscription, and alienation all at once
86--EIGHTY-SIX (light novel)
| I have really been blown away at some of the themes this show is presenting. I remember walking in thinking that this show was a generic classic "Us vs Them" story but I am so incredibly surprised at how wrong I was and also at the amazing themes this show directly or indirectly puts out. Racism, forced conscription, alienation. I have never seen all three themes combined and really, the synergy of these themes are so natural that I'm surprised I haven't seen a different show like this. Not only that but this show doesn't feel all that '2D' to me if you get what I mean. Like the feelings behind forced conscription is just so HUMAN, I can't describe it well. Every other military anime revolves around some theme of revenge revenge revenge, when in reality, that sort of motivation is quite fictitious. This is what I mean by how the show behaves seemingly in a '3D' way. Everything is just so, human... Natural. You know? |
| Uhhhhhhhhhhh how bout code geass?? |
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Hirsh200 said: Why AOT? I know they talk about it, but doesn’t that happen more towards the end?If you liked these themes and the like then watch FMAB, Code Geass and Attack on Titan. You’ll definitely enjoy em |
| Yeah there’s plenty of shows like this. Thankfully it doesn’t force itself on us as much as some media forms in anime. There’s plenty of this talk in real life, and I thought people liked to escape from the real world in anime. So I’m always a little confused when people read too much into these kinds of themes. It’s fine as a theme, and has been in visual arts for a very long time. But it is just a theme, and it takes something away from any theme to try to impose our own sentiment on them too much. |
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SoulSorrows said: ttek9 said: Uhhhhhhhhhhh how bout code geass?? And attack on titan, obviously. This theme and portrayal is nothing new bruh, u just haven't watch a lot of shit lol 1) Nah I didn't watch code geass. I was fairly young that time and wasn't huge on that type at the time. 2) Attack on titan I did watch, of course its brilliant but it's not really the same. Firstly at the beginning until 3 seasons at least the show continuously focuses on revenge against titans, there isn't really a concept of 'racism' unless you are counting the discrimination against Titans... But then again the Titans ARE seeking to destroy mankind. Still, I know shit goes upside down in season 4 but I'm holding on to watching it for now. That's what I meant though, like shows like AoT, Owari no seraph, etc. are great shows but the desire of revenge is the main motivators of characters in that show, which I don't wish to discount those feelings the author wrote but it still doesn't seem that 'realistic' ya know? There should be fear, angst when facing an enemy which I think 86 does quite well in. |
BlueHawk02 said: Yeah there’s plenty of shows like this. Thankfully it doesn’t force itself on us as much as some media forms in anime. There’s plenty of this talk in real life, and I thought people liked to escape from the real world in anime. So I’m always a little confused when people read too much into these kinds of themes. It’s fine as a theme, and has been in visual arts for a very long time. But it is just a theme, and it takes something away from any theme to try to impose our own sentiment on them too much. Yeah I fully get what you mean, anime is extremely fictitious by nature, but sometimes just once in a while it's nice to see an anime that covers some realistic concepts albeit in an exaggerated manner so that it's more captivating for us. Honestly it's a bit of a hobby for me to analyse things like you would do in English class but I know that's just me haha. |
| There is gundam iron blooded orphans Gundam 00 Racism is not new in anime even one piece have beautifully presented it |
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SoulSorrows said: aightbet said: 1) Nah I didn't watch code geass. I was fairly young that time and wasn't huge on that type at the time. 2) Attack on titan I did watch, of course its brilliant but it's not really the same. Firstly at the beginning until 3 seasons at least the show continuously focuses on revenge against titans, there isn't really a concept of 'racism' unless you are counting the discrimination against Titans... But then again the Titans ARE seeking to destroy mankind. Still, I know shit goes upside down in season 4 but I'm holding on to watching it for now. That's what I meant though, like shows like AoT, Owari no seraph, etc. are great shows but the desire of revenge is the main motivators of characters in that show, which I don't wish to discount those feelings the author wrote but it still doesn't seem that 'realistic' ya know? There should be fear, angst when facing an enemy which I think 86 does quite well in. From the way you described AoT I assume u haven't watch and know much about s3p2 & s4, which u should go ahead and catch up. The theme changes from that point that everything just clicks and shits just mind-blowing, is no longer just about titan revenge and survival, everything builds up to the climax point, it uncovered all the foreshadowing and the truth of its world. I don't want to spoil and write too much, so the point is "racism, forced conscription and alienation" is all there and with much more complexity. The show's focus now is about ending the cycle of hate and freedom. Thus, why i mentioned AoT earlier. Yeah I'll defo finish it, but I've waited so long so I might as well wait until the second arc of season 4's finished and do a mega binge. |
| Code geass?? Attack on Titan?? Seraph of the end?? Naruto series?? I think it was a bit racist when the Uchiha clan were ostracized and labeled as traitor. |
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Snow_dropindo99 said: Code geass?? Attack on Titan?? Seraph of the end?? Naruto series?? I think it was a bit racist when the Uchiha clan were ostracized and labeled as traitor. I can't say about Code Geass as I haven't watched it, but regarding the other shows don't you still think that the prime motivators of the characters was just revenge? Like, they're good shows, especially AoT but it wasn't really the point I was trying to make about 86, which 86 seems to include a lot of genuine humanity in their characters. Like the fear of war, not wanting to be there, kind of polar opposites to AoT and Seraph. Owari no Seraph also doesn't really focus on what life was like for humans in vampire camps except for really a few minutes in one episode and then some flashbacks. That's why I truly believe 86 to present the themes of alienation and racism much better than other animes, since it's focus isn't much on planning revenge against the Albas, but rather life in the 86th district, contrasting with Lena's comfortable modern & urban life in the rest of the districts. But yeah I do see where you are coming from as these moments of racism and alienation do exist within the realms of the anime you stated but I just wouldn't call it 'themes' of those anime as its not focused enough on it. |
aightbet said: S1 and S2 are still about revenge, but after S3 part 2 and S4 it turns to be about the issue of racism against Eldian. it reveals the truth of that world. it's not about revenge anymore.Snow_dropindo99 said: Code geass?? Attack on Titan?? Seraph of the end?? Naruto series?? I think it was a bit racist when the Uchiha clan were ostracized and labeled as traitor. I can't say about Code Geass as I haven't watched it, but regarding the other shows don't you still think that the prime motivators of the characters was just revenge? Like, they're good shows, especially AoT but it wasn't really the point I was trying to make about 86, which 86 seems to include a lot of genuine humanity in their characters. Like the fear of war, not wanting to be there, kind of polar opposites to AoT and Seraph. |
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Snow_dropindo99 said: aightbet said: S1 and S2 are still about revenge, but after S3 part 2 and S4 it turns to be about the issue of racism against Eldian. it reveals the truth of that world. it's not about revenge anymore.I can't say about Code Geass as I haven't watched it, but regarding the other shows don't you still think that the prime motivators of the characters was just revenge? Like, they're good shows, especially AoT but it wasn't really the point I was trying to make about 86, which 86 seems to include a lot of genuine humanity in their characters. Like the fear of war, not wanting to be there, kind of polar opposites to AoT and Seraph. Interesting, I said so in a different comment but after AoT s4 part 2 finishes I'll jump back to where I left it off at the end of s3 part 1. |
GGcc78 said: So it isn't out yet, but Muv-Luv Alternative should tackle alot of these same issues once it airs in October (so long as it stays true to the source material). If anything it, feels like Muv-Luv Alternative laid the ground work for Code Geass, 86, and AoT so keep an eye out for it later this year. This stuff isn't new to anime, but 86 does a good job of bringing the themes together. I actually think it does a better job than Code Geass to be honest. Jury is still out if it does it as well as AoT. Dang that sounds hella interesting, will definitely keep that one in mind when it comes out, thanks for the recommendation. |
aightbet said: I have really been blown away at some of the themes this show is presenting. I remember walking in thinking that this show was a generic classic "Us vs Them" story but I am so incredibly surprised at how wrong I was and also at the amazing themes this show directly or indirectly puts out. Racism, forced conscription, alienation. I have never seen all three themes combined and really, the synergy of these themes are so natural that I'm surprised I haven't seen a different show like this. Not only that but this show doesn't feel all that '2D' to me if you get what I mean. Like the feelings behind forced conscription is just so HUMAN, I can't describe it well. Every other military anime revolves around some theme of revenge revenge revenge, when in reality, that sort of motivation is quite fictitious. This is what I mean by how the show behaves seemingly in a '3D' way. Everything is just so, human... Natural. You know? Uh, no, I don't see. Revenge is also a human concept, not mainly fictitious. I don't see why you separate it from those human feelings you noted in Eighty-Six. On the other hand, the themes you describe are seen over and over again in fiction. I won't look at your anime list in detail but you should easily enough find anime dealing with racism, discrimination, alienation, etc. |
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SoulSorrows said: ttek9 said: Uhhhhhhhhhhh how bout code geass?? And attack on titan, obviously. This theme and portrayal is nothing new bruh, u just haven't watch a lot of shit lol Wait they draft in AoT? |
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| the first anime i always think of is Code Geass, so yea, this is kinda an old concept, not to mention all the previous war related anime |
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| Attack on titan covers this theme in it's later seasons |
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SoulSorrows said: both don't have forced conscriptionttek9 said: Uhhhhhhhhhhh how bout code geass?? And attack on titan, obviously. This theme and portrayal is nothing new bruh, u just haven't watch a lot of shit lol |
| It’s not a fairly new concept but I feel that the way 86 tackles it’s themes are pretty well executed. |
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| bros in the comments who kept saying that the concept isn't new, the thread isn't talking about that. It's not about what anime did it first but more like HOW they did it, like how the issue of alienation, racism and such is tackled more in detail and seems like the center of the series, as well as op stated that they know of anime with these themes but to them the main motivation revolves around revenge. I still didn't watch 86 yet, (and i haven't watched enough anime) i'm planning to do so but i like ur insight, i have finished the AOT manga tho and i can see why some ppl here kept bringing it up, the later half of the series definitely took a huge turn into the better and reached its peak but without spoiling, i feel like in the end those themes of racism, war and alienation weren't handled to their core and felt like they were forgotten. That's just my opinion tho. also i would like to disagree that revenge isn't a realistic motivation, to me it's a human drive force that triggers our negative feelings and those feelings can make us move forward given the context, but i can agree that it's an 'overused' factor in a lot of works of fiction. |
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Conceptualhero said: EcchiGodMamster said: the first anime i always think of is Code Geass, so yea, this is kinda an old concept, not to mention all the previous war related anime When did Code Geass deal with forced conscription? i watched Code Geass almost 11 years ago, idr if it does or not |
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neobluue said: bros in the comments who kept saying that the concept isn't new, the thread isn't talking about that. It's not about what anime did it first but more like HOW they did it, like how the issue of alienation, racism and such is tackled more in detail and seems like the center of the series, as well as op stated that they know of anime with these themes but to them the main motivation revolves around revenge. I still didn't watch 86 yet, (and i haven't watched enough anime) i'm planning to do so but i like ur insight, i have finished the AOT manga tho and i can see why some ppl here kept bringing it up, the later half of the series definitely took a huge turn into the better and reached its peak but without spoiling, i feel like in the end those themes of racism, war and alienation weren't handled to their core and felt like they were forgotten. That's just my opinion tho. also i would like to disagree that revenge isn't a realistic motivation, to me it's a human drive force that triggers our negative feelings and those feelings can make us move forward given the context, but i can agree that it's an 'overused' factor in a lot of works of fiction. Holy crap! On the 39th reply someone finally gets what I was trying to discuss!!! You are right in that revenge is a very human motivation, I think it was wrong of me to disqualify the emotion as unrealistic. But yeah, it's been incredibly overused in anime which perhaps led me to the path in feeling like it was a 'fictional' emotion, even though I can recall the times where I've seeked or at least wanted to seek revenge. In nearly all the animes people here have stated (perhaps except AoT s4 but I haven't watched it yet so i don't completely know), there are some aspects of alienation, racism etc. presented, but it can't be regarded as 'themes' of those shows when they are really just details which are only shown a handful of times and not explored at all. In my eyes, it's just a type of detail filler. No where near complex enough to be called a 'theme' of a show. So 86 was a big surprise to me, when it ACTUALLY explores these themes, with forced conscription a very interesting feature and byproduct of the racism and alienation the 86ers face. Bro you're legit the only one who sees the point in my post, genuinely surprised it took nearly 40 replies but thanks for understanding lol. |
| I admire that anime directly focuses these controversial issues on the same problem. But I'm worried about a number of plot holes or things that don't convince me about the show. |
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aightbet said: neobluue said: bros in the comments who kept saying that the concept isn't new, the thread isn't talking about that. It's not about what anime did it first but more like HOW they did it, like how the issue of alienation, racism and such is tackled more in detail and seems like the center of the series, as well as op stated that they know of anime with these themes but to them the main motivation revolves around revenge. I still didn't watch 86 yet, (and i haven't watched enough anime) i'm planning to do so but i like ur insight, i have finished the AOT manga tho and i can see why some ppl here kept bringing it up, the later half of the series definitely took a huge turn into the better and reached its peak but without spoiling, i feel like in the end those themes of racism, war and alienation weren't handled to their core and felt like they were forgotten. That's just my opinion tho. also i would like to disagree that revenge isn't a realistic motivation, to me it's a human drive force that triggers our negative feelings and those feelings can make us move forward given the context, but i can agree that it's an 'overused' factor in a lot of works of fiction. Holy crap! On the 39th reply someone finally gets what I was trying to discuss!!! You are right in that revenge is a very human motivation, I think it was wrong of me to disqualify the emotion as unrealistic. But yeah, it's been incredibly overused in anime which perhaps led me to the path in feeling like it was a 'fictional' emotion, even though I can recall the times where I've seeked or at least wanted to seek revenge. In nearly all the animes people here have stated (perhaps except AoT s4 but I haven't watched it yet so i don't completely know), there are some aspects of alienation, racism etc. presented, but it can't be regarded as 'themes' of those shows when they are really just details which are only shown a handful of times and not explored at all. In my eyes, it's just a type of detail filler. No where near complex enough to be called a 'theme' of a show. So 86 was a big surprise to me, when it ACTUALLY explores these themes, with forced conscription a very interesting feature and byproduct of the racism and alienation the 86ers face. Bro you're legit the only one who sees the point in my post, genuinely surprised it took nearly 40 replies but thanks for understanding lol. tbh i would be lying if i didn't think while seeing the title of your post "okey someone is def gonna bring up aot into this and get offended" well i can say i wasn't exactly wrong lol would have been cooler to not see the same replies over and over but you're welcome! i had to reply to show some solidarity hah but yeah i feel the same about overused motivations, they're in the same category with the tragic backstories they just get meh overtime if they're not diverse and not detailed enough so it's all about the execution. and that's why i feel disappointed with aot at the end but now i really wanna know what you will think of it when u catch up, u can hit me up in the future if u want someone to talk about it with, since it sucks that i didn't watch 86 yet so i can't really share with u my opnion u do be giving credit to the show so i'm excited to watch it |
N2O_May 5, 2021 5:59 PM
bam |
addie1998 said: neobluue said: tbh i would be lying if i didn't think while seeing the title of your post "okey someone is def gonna bring up aot into this and get offended" well i can say i wasn't exactly wrong lol would have been cooler to not see the same replies over and over but you're welcome! and yeah i feel the same about overused motivations, they're in the same category with the tragic backstories they just get meh overtime if they're not diverse and not detailed enough so it's all about the execution. and that's why i feel disappointed with aot at the end but now i really wanna know what you will think of it when u catch up, u can hit me up in the future if u want someone to talk about it with since it sucks that i didn't watch 86 yet so i can't really share with u my opnion (u do be giving credit to the show so i'm excited to watch it) -The story uses elements from World War II, specifically a certain country from the Axis powers and a certain country belonging to the Allies, and certain dark aspects of the history of that time. I would like to clarify that I bear no ill will toward any of those countries today; there just happened to be a lot of material regarding those particular themes. -The story uses the word pig as a spiteful derogatory term. I would like to clarify, however, that I bear no ill will toward pigs. If anything, I love them! They’re delicious. Pork cutlets are great, too! -The story takes place in an alternate reality but still employs the metric system. I did this because made-up units of measurement fail to really give one a grasp of what’s going on. The reason I didn’t use the old Japanese system or imperial units is because I don’t really know them. -This story takes place in an alternate reality but has references to the Bible, Remarque’s novels, and so forth. The reason for that is… Well, I’ll leave that to your imaginations. "ASATO ASATO" The Author okey now u convinced me! i don't eat pork tho :( |
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neobluue said: tbh i would be lying if i didn't think while seeing the title of your post "okey someone is def gonna bring up aot into this and get offended" well i can say i wasn't exactly wrong lol would have been cooler to not see the same replies over and over but you're welcome! i had to reply to show some solidarity hah but yeah i feel the same about overused motivations, they're in the same category with the tragic backstories they just get meh overtime if they're not diverse and not detailed enough so it's all about the execution. and that's why i feel disappointed with aot at the end but now i really wanna know what you will think of it when u catch up, u can hit me up in the future if u want someone to talk about it with, since it sucks that i didn't watch 86 yet so i can't really share with u my opnion u do be giving credit to the show so i'm excited to watch it Oh yeah, you def def have to watch this at some point. Hopefully the entire adaption will stay as good as it is if not better. Thanks though, when I get around to AoT s4 I might catch up with u if i rmb haha, cheers mate. |
| Lol, the topics "racism is bad" and "government is bad" are so overused in the media that they have long been stock messages. Also, were you too young to watch Code Geass? Fuck how old I've become. I can still remember the days when any fan of this show was accused of immaturity. But apparently even this show has become old enough for people to appear for whom it is too doomer. |
RobertBobertMay 9, 2021 8:40 PM
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