Do you like Shiro as a protagonist?

Attackonfiller said:
Had me wondering what that NGNL loli was doing in UBW for a second lol

ChocoTaco said:
I was on a couple of threads about Fate/stay night and I saw a lot of Shiro slander saying he is generic. I feel like he is a really misunderstood character with a lot more depth than just "I want to be a hero and see bad guys go boom boom".

Here's my take: The thing I saw most people take issue with in regards to Shiro is that they claimed he was a generic shonen protagonist and he wants to fight bad guys just for the sake of fighting bad guys. However, it goes much deeper than that. Shiro strives to be a hero because of a traumatic event he lived through when he was a young boy (The accident at the end of Fate/Zero where Kiritsigu saves him). Shiro has been depressed since that day that he lost everything, Rin even says that Shiro never truly smiled. But, the memory of Kiritsugu's smiling face when he found Shiro in the rubble is burned into Shiro's memory (Likely due to trauma). Now Shiro strives to be a "hero of justice" in order to feel the happiness Kiritsugu felt when he saved Shiro- basically he wants to be a "hero of justice to feel happiness for the first time in his life.

Shiro's story is one that explores the concept of childhood trauma and how that trauma can affect someone as they grow older. Shiro does not know what happiness is having never felt it himself, so Shiro bases his conception of happiness off of the person who saved him. Shiro's unwavering ideals, that he himself admits are foolish during his fight with Archer, are unwavering because if he does not achieve these ideals then he will never be able to be happy like Kiritsugu was in his memories.

That's just my take on Shiro as a character. I think he is a deeply flawed character likely due to the childhood trauma he experienced, and he is supposed to come off as selfish and overly heroic/helpful to a fault. I could give a bunch more examples of this but I'd like to hear other opinions. Do you agree? Disagree? Do you like Shiro as a character? Lmk

ChocoTaco said:
I was on a couple of threads about Fate/stay night and I saw a lot of Shiro slander saying he is generic. I feel like he is a really misunderstood character with a lot more depth than just "I want to be a hero and see bad guys go boom boom".

Here's my take: The thing I saw most people take issue with in regards to Shiro is that they claimed he was a generic shonen protagonist and he wants to fight bad guys just for the sake of fighting bad guys. However, it goes much deeper than that. Shiro strives to be a hero because of a traumatic event he lived through when he was a young boy (The accident at the end of Fate/Zero where Kiritsigu saves him). Shiro has been depressed since that day that he lost everything, Rin even says that Shiro never truly smiled. But, the memory of Kiritsugu's smiling face when he found Shiro in the rubble is burned into Shiro's memory (Likely due to trauma). Now Shiro strives to be a "hero of justice" in order to feel the happiness Kiritsugu felt when he saved Shiro- basically he wants to be a "hero of justice to feel happiness for the first time in his life.

Shiro's story is one that explores the concept of childhood trauma and how that trauma can affect someone as they grow older. Shiro does not know what happiness is having never felt it himself, so Shiro bases his conception of happiness off of the person who saved him. Shiro's unwavering ideals, that he himself admits are foolish during his fight with Archer, are unwavering because if he does not achieve these ideals then he will never be able to be happy like Kiritsugu was in his memories.

That's just my take on Shiro as a character. I think he is a deeply flawed character likely due to the childhood trauma he experienced, and he is supposed to come off as selfish and overly heroic/helpful to a fault. I could give a bunch more examples of this but I'd like to hear other opinions. Do you agree? Disagree? Do you like Shiro as a character? Lmk

ChocoTaco said:
I was on a couple of threads about Fate/stay night and I saw a lot of Shiro slander saying he is generic. I feel like he is a really misunderstood character with a lot more depth than just "I want to be a hero and see bad guys go boom boom".

Here's my take: The thing I saw most people take issue with in regards to Shiro is that they claimed he was a generic shonen protagonist and he wants to fight bad guys just for the sake of fighting bad guys. However, it goes much deeper than that. Shiro strives to be a hero because of a traumatic event he lived through when he was a young boy (The accident at the end of Fate/Zero where Kiritsigu saves him). Shiro has been depressed since that day that he lost everything, Rin even says that Shiro never truly smiled. But, the memory of Kiritsugu's smiling face when he found Shiro in the rubble is burned into Shiro's memory (Likely due to trauma). Now Shiro strives to be a "hero of justice" in order to feel the happiness Kiritsugu felt when he saved Shiro- basically he wants to be a "hero of justice to feel happiness for the first time in his life.

Shiro's story is one that explores the concept of childhood trauma and how that trauma can affect someone as they grow older. Shiro does not know what happiness is having never felt it himself, so Shiro bases his conception of happiness off of the person who saved him. Shiro's unwavering ideals, that he himself admits are foolish during his fight with Archer, are unwavering because if he does not achieve these ideals then he will never be able to be happy like Kiritsugu was in his memories.

That's just my take on Shiro as a character. I think he is a deeply flawed character likely due to the childhood trauma he experienced, and he is supposed to come off as selfish and overly heroic/helpful to a fault. I could give a bunch more examples of this but I'd like to hear other opinions. Do you agree? Disagree? Do you like Shiro as a character? Lmk

RandomGuyScott said:
It depends. Are you basing it from Anime ONLY experience? Sure, people most likely not going to like him. Main reason is because that Shirou is shallow and incomplete. Despite the fact that Ufotable does the best they can with the adaptation. IF you are going by Shirou’s VN where he is fully fleshed out then yes, he is amongst the best MCs ever being created.
So most likely all the hate comes from not knowing the whole story as per usual.

Mayhem_Psywar said:
actually he sucks comparing to Emiya kiritsugu who was poerfectly written... shirou sreems like a shounen protagonist to me😑

Waifu4Laifu_69 said:

I couldn’t agree more with what you just said, i think people just see him as your typical “I wanna be a hero” character, when in reality there is much more to his character and tbh i dont think that he was better in the visual novel as some people seem to say, i think he is literally the same in the anime than in the VN, i played the VN after i watched the heavens feel movies and by that point I already though his character was brilliant and after i played the VN i felt the same way about him.

A lot of people seem to try and compare him to Kiritsugu and i dont think that it’s fair comparing those two since they are so different, Kiritsugu is kinda like the harsh reality of his dreams and he shows that there is no way to save everyone and Shirou is more like a dreamer who thinks that it’s possible to save everyone, both of their ideologies are really different and it’s something I really like, i think that Kiritsugu and Shirou are both amazing but i like Shirou more just because i do think that his character is much more fleshed out and in Heaven’s Feel 3 he is even more of a bad ass than Kiritsugu imo.

Theo1899 said:
Yeah he's got all the girls and he's /fit/. Also the VN includes some some extra character moments that make him more likeable.

Frankogml said:
He is definitely not as good in Ubw compared to kiritsugu.But imo, heavens feel shirou is better than kiritsugu

ChocoTaco said:

Hmm shiro and kiritsugu honestly seem quite similar to me. Idk why but I personally was never really interested in kiritsugu that much. I always found Kirei/gilgamesh to be a more interesting pair in fate/Zero. In ubw shiro/Rin is the pair that I’m most interested in so that’s prob why I like shiro more than kiritsugu

ChocoTaco said:

Yeah I agree with you. Ppl in this thread keep trying to bring up kiritsugu to compare to shiro when there is really no reason to compare the two. They both appear in the same series, but kiritsugu only appears in flashbacks in UBW; he’s barely in the show.

The thing I think a lot of people are missing is that kiritsugu can exist and be a good character and so can shiro. They’re not the same so there’s no reason to compare. Like u said they take different approaches to a similar ideology and there’s no way to say who is right. Kiritsugus approach is more realistic and pragmatic while shiro’s approach is idealistic and foolish, but there’s also something beautiful about it in its own way

Pdx0116 said:

I mean unfortunately for UBW, a lot of people are going to compare it to Zero, even though they are written by completely different people. On its own, it’s probably not that bad, and Shiro’s probably not that bad of a protagonist. Since I watched Zero first I can’t help but compare the two, especially the MC’s as father and adoptive son. Saying the Shiro is just a generic shonen might be unfair. Generic gives the connotation of lazy, and I don’t really think of Shiro as lazy, just more so poorly executed. I recognize that he has a tragic backstory and a clear motivation, but that doesn’t necessarily give him much depth. Personally I don’t really feel attached to him as a character. Typically, if a character is shown to have a tragic backstory which creates a conflict within their character, I need to not recognize the clear line as to how the to are connected, as well as feel that the conflict is realistic and compelling. For Shiro, I just don’t really find his internal conflict interesting. It become really clear to me how uninteresting I found his character when the stories twist unfolded and archer true identity was revealed. It’s not that it was surprising, I just don’t find any emotional impact from the reveal which just made it lack luster.
It might be annoying to compare him to Kiritsugu, but I personally could help doing so as I watched UBW. Obviously a lot of people praise him as an MC, so you could find a lot more on his analysis, but to be brief one of my appeals to his character in contrast was how his motivation played into his backstory, which shaped such a warped idealistic nature. The story of a good man, who honestly could be better then most, who because of a childhood mistake which cause the death of an entire village, leads him to force himself to make unthinkable decision and acts of violence in the name of the better good was truly tragic, and I believe they executed it fantastically with his character. On his initial introduction you can tell he is probably a good man, but then once you start seeing the actions he takes to achieve his goals, the contrast becomes very apparent. The dissonance between a originally kindhearted, then Machiavellian Utilitarian was more than enough to find interest in his character.


Obviously you could very well disagree with my conclusion, and your not necessarily wrong for doing so, but there’s definitely a lot of people who feel this way, as the basis for your question. If you enjoyed UBW, more power to you, I just could help compare it to Zero as a proceeding story, which left me very dissatisfied. There’s not necessarily anything gained by being more critical of shows, since in the end they’re just entertainment, and the more you like the better your time is spent, so don’t fee anything pressure to change your views just because others might disagree.

Mayhem_Psywar said:
well, people have different thoughts,but if u think deeply about each one and their beliefs, you see thay kiritsugu's character was an adult man with realist thoughts but shiro is just swaying in his dreams and be thinks as a shounen protagonist does... i believe kiritsugu has a deeper and better character and u think the opposite.

Waifu4Laifu_69 said:

As you said Shirou is idealistic and foolish, but thats kind of the point, there is a whole episode in UBW in where it’s literally Shirou realizing that his dream is foolish and impossible but for him that doesn’t matter since he will keep doing what he believes is correct, thats what i personally liked about his character, and if you haven’t watched Heavens Feel, I really recommend you do since those movies made him better and I think that Heavens Feel is the peak of Fate, so if you haven’t checked them out I recommend you do.

ChocoTaco said:

Lol nah I def don’t think shiro is a deeper character than kiritsugu I just think shiro is misunderstood. maybe people don’t want to understand him. Also if just believing in your dreams makes u a shonen protagonist then kiritsugu is one too because he is fighting for the grail to achieve his dreams. Personally I think a generic shonen protagonist is like goku/luffy who want to be the strongest just to be the strongest and are kinda blank slates personality wise. I love both luffy and goku but they’re pretty generic. Shiro’s flawed ideals and the trauma he’s gone through make him different from a generic shonen protagonist. You rarely see depression portrayed in an anime even though it was lightly portrayed and barely touched upon. If the anime had explored those subjects more I think shiro would be a much more liked character overall.

ChocoTaco said:

I also watched fate/zero first :) for me, in fate/zero I rooted for kariya to win even though I didn’t find his character that intriguing and in ubw I rooted for shiro and rin to win which made me feel attached to him. I can’t really counter your point that he doesn’t have much depth as a character because he doesn’t. All he is is someone who survived a tragic event, is depressed, and has deeply flawed ideals. Personally I enjoyed the series’ exploration into how shiro’s ideals are flawed and the twist at the end with archer paid off for me because it allowed the viewers and shiro to see what could have been if all of his flawed ideals were realized. Now that shiro was able to see where following his ideals will lead him he is able to forge a better path for the future for himself which is explicitly stated at the very final scene of UBW. Although in that final scene we are also told that not everything goes perfectly for shiro.

My purpose for making this post was more to counter the people who were calling shiro a generic shonen protagonist when I don’t see him that way. Most shonen protagonists tend to not have flawed ideals which shape their identity (Ofc some do though). I think people would connect with shiro a lot more if he was able to work through some of his trauma in the show through his fight with archer. It was slightly disappointing that shiro’s fight with archer didn’t seem to change his character much that likely would have given him more depth. Although it makes sense because shiro’s ideals are what he connects to happiness so abandoning his ideals would be like abandoning happiness for him.

I don’t really have much to say about kiritsugu. Honestly I appreciated kiritsugus presence in fate/zero but I was always more compelled by other characters like Gilgamesh, kotomine, and even rider who was just fun. To me shiro is the most compelling character to root for in UBW which is probably why I like him.
Thanks for ur response :) u actually explained a valid reason ppl wouldn’t like shiro

Mayhem_Psywar said:
it depends on the dream they have to be decided as a shounen protagonist or not. some dreams are based on reality and some aren't. It's a fact in real life that you can't always help and save anyone, that's what kiritsugu believed im and his dream was based on this fact. but if you focus, a lot of shounen protagonists have dreams that doesn't make sense in reality and the story is gonna either end up as they dreamed or is gonna be exactly the opposite and the MC understands that his dream is impossible. what shiro believes in and dreams about has the same factors that i mentioned about shonen protagonists, doesn't it?

Alexasa11 said:
I found him quite nice and interesting, his idea of being a "hero of justice" was a bit strange and a bit boring, but otherwise I don't think he's a bad main character, I really like him.

Pdx0116 said:

Oh yeah for your point about Zero there’s so many characters that are given compelling motivations, and I’d say all those that you mentioned were someone of the highlights. Might be another reason why I was a little bit disappointed by UBW cause they did Kotomine dirty by comparison, but to be fair he was definitely not the focus, and it was written before Zero, so it’s understandable to have different characters with more emphasis on developing.
So just from my experience watching shows and seeing reactions, there’s several responses that I just sort of tune out. 9 times out of 10 terms like generic or overrated are oversimplification to express dissatisfaction either because the person doesn’t understand their issues with the show or doesn’t feel like taking the time to explain.I don’t expect everyone to be as analytical, because at the end of the day it’s just entertainment and some people put more time into thinking or taking about it than others. So that’s why I just try to tune those out because arguing with them is usually just a waste of time and energy. I definitely understand how annoying it can be though when someone just drops a term like that into a discussion without any explanation and then act like they hold a superior view. It’s all subjective but that’s barely even an opinion, and usually a lot of people who fee the exact same way so it’s not like it’s revolutionary.

ChocoTaco said:
I was on a couple of threads about Fate/stay night and I saw a lot of Shiro slander saying he is generic. I feel like he is a really misunderstood character with a lot more depth than just "I want to be a hero and see bad guys go boom boom".

Here's my take: The thing I saw most people take issue with in regards to Shiro is that they claimed he was a generic shonen protagonist and he wants to fight bad guys just for the sake of fighting bad guys. However, it goes much deeper than that. Shiro strives to be a hero because of a traumatic event he lived through when he was a young boy (The accident at the end of Fate/Zero where Kiritsigu saves him). Shiro has been depressed since that day that he lost everything, Rin even says that Shiro never truly smiled. But, the memory of Kiritsugu's smiling face when he found Shiro in the rubble is burned into Shiro's memory (Likely due to trauma). Now Shiro strives to be a "hero of justice" in order to feel the happiness Kiritsugu felt when he saved Shiro- basically he wants to be a "hero of justice to feel happiness for the first time in his life.

Shiro's story is one that explores the concept of childhood trauma and how that trauma can affect someone as they grow older. Shiro does not know what happiness is having never felt it himself, so Shiro bases his conception of happiness off of the person who saved him. Shiro's unwavering ideals, that he himself admits are foolish during his fight with Archer, are unwavering because if he does not achieve these ideals then he will never be able to be happy like Kiritsugu was in his memories.

That's just my take on Shiro as a character. I think he is a deeply flawed character likely due to the childhood trauma he experienced, and he is supposed to come off as selfish and overly heroic/helpful to a fault. I could give a bunch more examples of this but I'd like to hear other opinions. Do you agree? Disagree? Do you like Shiro as a character? Lmk

Sensei_1 said:
I don't dislike shiro as a protagonist I dislike him as a character. I understand what he represents and I don't think his back story is great. I don't think his generic because he honestly is my least favorite protagonist in anime. What I don't like about him is how idealistic he is. And fate did something criticize MHA for. They introduced a better version of the protagonist and never gave a good reason why I should support the protagonist over his alternative. For fate this is archer for MHA its Miro

ChocoTaco said:
I was on a couple of threads about Fate/stay night and I saw a lot of Shiro slander saying he is generic. I feel like he is a really misunderstood character with a lot more depth than just "I want to be a hero and see bad guys go boom boom".

Here's my take: The thing I saw most people take issue with in regards to Shiro is that they claimed he was a generic shonen protagonist and he wants to fight bad guys just for the sake of fighting bad guys. However, it goes much deeper than that. Shiro strives to be a hero because of a traumatic event he lived through when he was a young boy (The accident at the end of Fate/Zero where Kiritsigu saves him). Shiro has been depressed since that day that he lost everything, Rin even says that Shiro never truly smiled. But, the memory of Kiritsugu's smiling face when he found Shiro in the rubble is burned into Shiro's memory (Likely due to trauma). Now Shiro strives to be a "hero of justice" in order to feel the happiness Kiritsugu felt when he saved Shiro- basically he wants to be a "hero of justice to feel happiness for the first time in his life.

Shiro's story is one that explores the concept of childhood trauma and how that trauma can affect someone as they grow older. Shiro does not know what happiness is having never felt it himself, so Shiro bases his conception of happiness off of the person who saved him. Shiro's unwavering ideals, that he himself admits are foolish during his fight with Archer, are unwavering because if he does not achieve these ideals then he will never be able to be happy like Kiritsugu was in his memories.

That's just my take on Shiro as a character. I think he is a deeply flawed character likely due to the childhood trauma he experienced, and he is supposed to come off as selfish and overly heroic/helpful to a fault. I could give a bunch more examples of this but I'd like to hear other opinions. Do you agree? Disagree? Do you like Shiro as a character? Lmk

ChocoTaco said:
I was on a couple of threads about Fate/stay night and I saw a lot of Shiro slander saying he is generic. I feel like he is a really misunderstood character with a lot more depth than just "I want to be a hero and see bad guys go boom boom".

Here's my take: The thing I saw most people take issue with in regards to Shiro is that they claimed he was a generic shonen protagonist and he wants to fight bad guys just for the sake of fighting bad guys. However, it goes much deeper than that. Shiro strives to be a hero because of a traumatic event he lived through when he was a young boy (The accident at the end of Fate/Zero where Kiritsigu saves him). Shiro has been depressed since that day that he lost everything, Rin even says that Shiro never truly smiled. But, the memory of Kiritsugu's smiling face when he found Shiro in the rubble is burned into Shiro's memory (Likely due to trauma). Now Shiro strives to be a "hero of justice" in order to feel the happiness Kiritsugu felt when he saved Shiro- basically he wants to be a "hero of justice to feel happiness for the first time in his life.

Shiro's story is one that explores the concept of childhood trauma and how that trauma can affect someone as they grow older. Shiro does not know what happiness is having never felt it himself, so Shiro bases his conception of happiness off of the person who saved him. Shiro's unwavering ideals, that he himself admits are foolish during his fight with Archer, are unwavering because if he does not achieve these ideals then he will never be able to be happy like Kiritsugu was in his memories.

That's just my take on Shiro as a character. I think he is a deeply flawed character likely due to the childhood trauma he experienced, and he is supposed to come off as selfish and overly heroic/helpful to a fault. I could give a bunch more examples of this but I'd like to hear other opinions. Do you agree? Disagree? Do you like Shiro as a character? Lmk

RandomGuyScott said:
It depends. Are you basing it from Anime ONLY experience? Sure, people most likely not going to like him. Main reason is because that Shirou is shallow and incomplete. Despite the fact that Ufotable does the best they can with the adaptation. IF you are going by Shirou’s VN where he is fully fleshed out then yes, he is amongst the best MCs ever being created.
So most likely all the hate comes from not knowing the whole story as per usual.

Blackmirror94 said:
Every route got an different outcome for his character development, which makes him even more interesting. Especially the big contrast between ubw and heavens feel is a great example.
That's why you need to watch every route.
Unlike Zero, Fate/stay night only works as a whole package to understand every character and their motivations.

I can highly recommend to watch heavens feel as well :)

Linux_2020 said:
No, make Archer (Heroic Spirit EMIYA) the Main Protagonist Instead, I've had enough of Mr. Goody Two Shoes as the Main Character. Anti-Heroes are way more suited to become an MC.

Mayhem_Psywar said:
actually he sucks comparing to Emiya kiritsugu who was poerfectly written... shirou sreems like a shounen protagonist to me😑

Anayan_Kashyap said:
He is ass, I don't like him, bruh Kiritsugu was better

Mayhem_Psywar said:
well, people have different thoughts,but if u think deeply about each one and their beliefs, you see thay kiritsugu's character was an adult man with realist thoughts but shiro is just swaying in his dreams and thinks as a shounen protagonist does... i believe kiritsugu has a deeper and better character and u think the opposite.

electromagneto said:
I'm planning to watch this franchise for the first time, so I'm looking for the best way to watch it, like if there is a chronological order I should follow. So, from my understanding, I should watch every version of Fate/stay night since they all go by different routes.

Also, do I have to watch Fate/Zero before/after Fate/stay night?