Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? Episode 13 Discussion

AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ tournament (with english commentary) / MTGNexus - Magic Art Gallery

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Jan 2021

168

Valyrian1124 said:
The 2D animation was pretty bad at points today.

What was the point of the meeting with the elf king? You have an eight minute long scene and literally nothing happened. I thought that the human king was going to say "elf king, please take my son Schlain and teach him to be a badass warrior or the secrets of magic", but all that happened was that they decided "nah we shouldn't send Schlain to the front lines" and then they adjourned. What? Scene should've been cut.

No, there were several necessary things in that scene:
The attitude of Shun's brothers.
Potimas mention of Dustin.
Potimas reaction to Filimos being referred to as 'Oka'.
Potimas attitude towards half elves.
And a nice handout for the observant.

All of these things are subtle, like most of the world building in this story.
The story won't come out and state that 'Potimas has a beef with Dustin' or 'Potimas is prejudiced against half elves'. It shows it in the way people speak and act.

Apr 10, 2021 7:44 PM

#108

linkhuesitos

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Dec 2017

305

Valyrian1124 said:
What was the point of the meeting with the elf king? You have an eight minute long scene and literally nothing happened. I thought that the human king was going to say "elf king, please take my son Schlain and teach him to be a badass warrior or the secrets of magic", but all that happened was that they decided "nah we shouldn't send Schlain to the front lines" and then they adjourned. What? Scene should've been cut.

In a nutshel, To re-introduce skipped content
Potimas and Anna were supposed to appear since the beginning of the Anime.
I think I don't need to say that those 2 characters are needed in this new arc

Shun and Sue have 2 maids, Anna and Klevea. Klevea is a former S-Rank adventurer that now works as the royal guard of Shun and Sue, meanwhile Anna is a former Court Mage that has been working as the caretaker of several generations of princes of Analeit.
In fact, Anna and Klevea were supposed to go to the academy, there Anna was Shun's personal maid and was the one in charge to train and help Fei to level up. Meanwhile Klevea was Sue's personal maid.
Shun and Sue weren't really good at magic during class due to being MC-kun and Imouto-chan, they convinced Anna to teach them magic at a very young age. And the only reason why Shun was able to hold his ground against Hugo for a little was thanks Klevea training.

The lack of Potimas also created a mini plot hole in the question, Why is Oka in the Royal Academy?
Obviously without Potima then the anime never explained that Oka is his daughter which makes her the Elf Princess.

Apr 11, 2021 5:31 AM

#109

Liddo-kun

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Oct 2007

3499

Kumo-chan finally put in the bright sunshine. Those humans are lucky, Kumo is not actually trying to kill them - she could have wiped them out easily if she wanted to. Boss fight... Kumo vs. Arch.. the huge spider tried to put up a good fight, but lava out an end to him quick.

looking forward to more spider action next week!

Apr 11, 2021 8:26 AM

#110

Siegfried10

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Sep 2016

511

Valyrian1124 said:
The 2D animation was pretty bad at points today.

What was the point of the meeting with the elf king? You have an eight minute long scene and literally nothing happened. I thought that the human king was going to say "elf king, please take my son Schlain and teach him to be a badass warrior or the secrets of magic", but all that happened was that they decided "nah we shouldn't send Schlain to the front lines" and then they adjourned. What? Scene should've been cut.

Actually, the scene is important. For one, it introduces Potimas and second, it shows the King's attitude toward Shun being the hero and sending him to war.

Apr 11, 2021 12:41 PM

#111

jaw201

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Dec 2018

234

Azuchi said:

As for the anime, damn they changed a lot from the light novel. But we'll see how things turn out. Still a very good show.

I wouldn't say that they changed anything, for the most part they added a few things, and have been pacing the human side of the story a lot slower than the spider side.
Which isn't exactly changing anything as long as the material shown is the same.
I think this change of pacing is actually for the best if they want to try and have the anime end at volume 5.

Apr 11, 2021 5:55 PM

#112

Rarkis

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Feb 2020

48

Valyrian1124 said:
You have an eight minute long scene and literally nothing happened. I thought that the human king was going to say "elf king, please take my son Schlain and teach him to be a badass warrior or the secrets of magic", but all that happened was that they decided "nah we shouldn't send Schlain to the front lines" and then they adjourned. What? Scene should've been cut.

That scene may feel a bit off cause it was originally at the end of Volume 1. At that time it mainly served another purpose, so some details were removed and some others included in order to better contextualize it with some other cut/adapted content.

I agree this version of the scene is a bit weird but, in hindsight, it makes sense that it was adapted this way considering what was condensed in it.

Apr 12, 2021 3:27 PM

#113

DarknessReality

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May 2015

1679

Wait..........that white girl is MC???!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we the baddies?

Its funny cause when I started watching this I was expecting a Slime kind of thing where its just MC gets stronger and deals with baddies. But this series is really making me think and the plot is interesting. The most interesting thing though is definitely the speculation and think in regards to the two timezones and where MC is in the human timeline. Is she the evil girl who killed the hero? Is the just a spider wandering around? I can't wait to see what happens.

DarknessRealityApr 12, 2021 3:30 PM

Yuritopia FTW!!!!!!!!! BANZAI TO YURI !!!!!!!!!!!!

Apr 13, 2021 12:12 PM

#114

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Feb 2021

5

Lazy said:

rasterman7 said:

I was actually wondering about that since there are clues that seem to indicate the contrary. Maybe the opening is just symbolism, I dunno.

Kumoko could potentially be the white demon commander with the rot attacks, but I had my money on the demonlord since she knew the classmate's names.

My guess is that she has nothing to do with that demon army, I do think they're representing the same time line twice, but for differente purposes, on past episodes it hinted me into thinking this, it may be wrong, but if you look closely, you may see why I think of this

Apr 13, 2021 12:58 PM

#115

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MtsTrapengz said:

Lazy said:

Kumoko could potentially be the white demon commander with the rot attacks, but I had my money on the demonlord since she knew the classmate's names.

My guess is that she has nothing to do with that demon army, I do think they're representing the same time line twice, but for differente purposes, on past episodes it hinted me into thinking this, it may be wrong, but if you look closely, you may see why I think of this

There is one time line, but the human scenes are 15 years later in time than the Kumoko spider scenes.
This is shown by:
Fei's egg and Kumoko's thread being found early on in Kumoko's scenes (her first home). Julius refers to this as "15 years ago"
Ronandt's fight with Kumoko 15 years before the war started - Kumoko refers to this fight in the end scene of the same episode, so it is confirmed that this is the same fight.

Apr 14, 2021 3:34 AM

#116

Uiai

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547

Example on how to help the young hero 101

Apr 14, 2021 11:46 AM

#117

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Feb 2021

5

Abredon said:

MtsTrapengz said:

My guess is that she has nothing to do with that demon army, I do think they're representing the same time line twice, but for differente purposes, on past episodes it hinted me into thinking this, it may be wrong, but if you look closely, you may see why I think of this

There is one time line, but the human scenes are 15 years later in time than the Kumoko spider scenes.
This is shown by:
Fei's egg and Kumoko's thread being found early on in Kumoko's scenes (her first home). Julius refers to this as "15 years ago"
Ronandt's fight with Kumoko 15 years before the war started - Kumoko refers to this fight in the end scene of the same episode, so it is confirmed that this is the same fight.

Now that you made me think about it, it is quite true, it's also intriguing how the author did this, I find it quite pleasing, having more in depth of the story was always something I've found nice to have, but most animes don't express this well. Now I do like it even more, thank you

Apr 14, 2021 12:47 PM

#118

tolga1991

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Jun 2012

154

DarknessReality said:
Wait..........that white girl is MC???!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we the baddies?

Its funny cause when I started watching this I was expecting a Slime kind of thing where its just MC gets stronger and deals with baddies. But this series is really making me think and the plot is interesting. The most interesting thing though is definitely the speculation and think in regards to the two timezones and where MC is in the human timeline. Is she the evil girl who killed the hero? Is the just a spider wandering around? I can't wait to see what happens.

Yeah becoming the Demon Lord doesnt mean we are the bad ones. As we seen many examples in different animes Demon Lord is not equal to bad or evil.In fact in some animes and especially in this anime I hate the Hero side more. They are just plain and pretentious.

Apr 14, 2021 12:49 PM

#119

Mr_Srijan

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Jun 2020

1628

Honestly, Kumoko might be one of the most entertaining protagonist in recent times and this whole thing of her having clones of herself makes this even more fun....

Apr 14, 2021 5:59 PM

#120

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324

Recent episodes have been better outside of the battles (which are still dull and predictable). The plot and world-building are shaping up nicely. But man...the spider protagonist is just so damn annoying. I'd bump the score of this show by an additional 2 points if I could swap her personality for something else.

Apr 14, 2021 8:21 PM

#121

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168

duhu1148 said:
Recent episodes have been better outside of the battles (which are still dull and predictable). The plot and world-building are shaping up nicely. But man...the spider protagonist is just so damn annoying. I'd bump the score of this show by an additional 2 points if I could swap her personality for something else.

Battles dull and predictable? I think you must be thinking of another anime.

If not, describe for me the next battle.

Apr 14, 2021 8:25 PM

#122

linkhuesitos

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Dec 2017

305

duhu1148 said:
Recent episodes have been better outside of the battles (which are still dull and predictable). The plot and world-building are shaping up nicely. But man...the spider protagonist is just so damn annoying. I'd bump the score of this show by an additional 2 points if I could swap her personality for something else.

tbf it seems that not being able to shut up is her cope method for not being able to talk with anyone.
Let's just pray that that change in the near future.

Apr 15, 2021 12:30 AM

#123

OrangeMoonSG

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Jan 2017

87

Generous servings of gratuitous English "not hungry spider" 草.

The last scene got me a bit worried, let us hope there is no NTR.

Apr 15, 2021 2:47 AM

#124

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324

Abredon said:

duhu1148 said:
Recent episodes have been better outside of the battles (which are still dull and predictable). The plot and world-building are shaping up nicely. But man...the spider protagonist is just so damn annoying. I'd bump the score of this show by an additional 2 points if I could swap her personality for something else.

Battles dull and predictable? I think you must be thinking of another anime.

If not, describe for me the next battle.

She'll kill her mom, level up and/or evolve, and at some point either during or after the fight (where something stronger shows up) it will look like she'll die or is in some kind of peril. But by virtue of being the protagonist she's not in any real danger.

The same, tired formula that this series has used for it's fights since episode one- kill monster >level up> repeat. And in fairness, a great many other shows have this problem too.

linkhuesitos said:

duhu1148 said:
Recent episodes have been better outside of the battles (which are still dull and predictable). The plot and world-building are shaping up nicely. But man...the spider protagonist is just so damn annoying. I'd bump the score of this show by an additional 2 points if I could swap her personality for something else.

tbf it seems that not being able to shut up is her cope method for not being able to talk with anyone.
Let's just pray that that change in the near future.

It's just the character quirk that bothers me. This being her method of cope doesn't make it less annoying, imo.

Apr 15, 2021 6:24 AM

#125

DannX

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60

Amazing! New OP is great, so much foreshadowing without really stating anything, and the ED is OK too.
Things aren't looking good for Schlain. He seems still hesitant about the whole hero thing, but that's understandable. Looking forward to how it goes.
On Kumoko's side, she totally didn't destroy a fortress guarding the entrance of the labyrinth, nope, wasn't her... xD
Fight with her siblings was great.

duhu1148 said:

The same, tired formula that this series has used for it's fights since episode one- kill monster >level up> repeat. And in fairness, a great many other shows have this problem too.

You're not wrong, but it's a little more complicated than that.

MC kills monsters that threaten her life. Killing gives EXP. She levels up. That's just the natural way of things. But every new enemy fights differently, and so she has to come up with new ways to fight, and that is what makes the battles interesting. How will she handle every new threat, and how her enemies will handle her incredible power.

I think the strategies she's been using so far might or might not necessarily be useful in future fights. She'll probably have to keep training/learning.

DannXApr 15, 2021 6:32 AM

Apr 15, 2021 7:57 AM

#126

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Feb 2021

5

duhu1148 said:

Abredon said:

Battles dull and predictable? I think you must be thinking of another anime.

If not, describe for me the next battle.

She'll kill her mom, level up and/or evolve, and at some point either during or after the fight (where something stronger shows up) it will look like she'll die or is in some kind of peril. But by virtue of being the protagonist she's not in any real danger.

The same, tired formula that this series has used for it's fights since episode one- kill monster >level up> repeat. And in fairness, a great many other shows have this problem too.

linkhuesitos said:

tbf it seems that not being able to shut up is her cope method for not being able to talk with anyone.
Let's just pray that that change in the near future.

It's just the character quirk that bothers me. This being her method of cope doesn't make it less annoying, imo.

I see where you're going, but take this point, do you expect a weak being to survive in that kind of world, I'd probably no, there some beings that might, but not every being has that kind of choice. With that out of the way, the next option is being the opposite of weak, be a predator, now, if you say repeating the process is a problem, I'd say it is a solution, repeating the same action in real life will let you refine it, how you train your gaming skills? You repeatedly play and have more experience to know and understand mechanics that may make you better. This is applied here, repeating the action of killing monsters is refining your skills as a predator. Also I'd say the fights aren't always 1v1.
But that is just a point, I see your frustation.
Also, I don't see why you don't like personality, I think it fits the character, could you perhaps give me an example of a better personality

Apr 15, 2021 10:12 AM

#127

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Jul 2009

324

DannX said:
Amazing! New OP is great, so much foreshadowing without really stating anything, and the ED is OK too.
Things aren't looking good for Schlain. He seems still hesitant about the whole hero thing, but that's understandable. Looking forward to how it goes.
On Kumoko's side, she totally didn't destroy a fortress guarding the entrance of the labyrinth, nope, wasn't her... xD
Fight with her siblings was great.

duhu1148 said:

The same, tired formula that this series has used for it's fights since episode one- kill monster >level up> repeat. And in fairness, a great many other shows have this problem too.

You're not wrong, but it's a little more complicated than that.

MC kills monsters that threaten her life. Killing gives EXP. She levels up. That's just the natural way of things. But every new enemy fights differently, and so she has to come up with new ways to fight, and that is what makes the battles interesting. How will she handle every new threat, and how her enemies will handle her incredible power.

I think the strategies she's been using so far might or might not necessarily be useful in future fights. She'll probably have to keep training/learning.

Honestly the thing keeping me invested in this series despite the dislike of Kumo and the battles is the world building. I think the potential down the line for her interactions and influence on the world could be something special, similar to the reasons why I loved Overlord. So happy we're finally out of that stupid dungeon.

MtsTrapengz said:

Also, I don't see why you don't like personality, I think it fits the character, could you perhaps give me an example of a better personality

It's not that the personality doesn't make sense or fit the character. It's just the character type itself I don't like. She talks way to much (i.e. a "chatty cathy") and is way sillier than I'd like her to be.

But this is all personal taste, nothing wrong with liking that type. Just not for me.

BStrifeSword114Apr 15, 2021 10:19 AM

Apr 15, 2021 10:43 AM

#128

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Jan 2021

168

duhu1148 said:

Abredon said:

Battles dull and predictable? I think you must be thinking of another anime.

If not, describe for me the next battle.

She'll kill her mom, level up and/or evolve, and at some point either during or after the fight (where something stronger shows up) it will look like she'll die or is in some kind of peril. But by virtue of being the protagonist she's not in any real danger.

The same, tired formula that this series has used for it's fights since episode one- kill monster >level up> repeat. And in fairness, a great many other shows have this problem too.

You're wrong.
First:

A great many shows have the formula of the protagonist not dying in mid-story battles?
Try pretty much EVERY story/show/script EVER WRITTEN!
You CANNOT write a story that kills the Protagonist before the resolution.
By definition, any such protagonist ISN'T the protagonist. Hamlet wins every fight until the end of the play. If Hamlet died in the middle, he wouldn't have been the protagonist.

So you are saying that ALL battles in ALL stories are boring because you know that the protagonist won't die (the protagonist could be crippled and in bed for 3 years, but not dead).

You DIDN'T describe whether Kumoko would win or lose.
You DIDN'T describe what skills or innovative use of terrain/skills/etc. She would use.

You are ALSO wrong in that a lot of battles don't show her in peril - the fight in episode 13 was one - she was never at risk of dying(the tatatects can't teleport), only of not winning.

The Anime DID skip a lot of similar fights where she simply overpowered enemies to level. They weren't necessary to the plot.
It ALSO skipped an important early fight, where she was left half dead for weeks hiding under a rock in Araba's cave recovering very slowly.

And,

Apr 15, 2021 11:09 AM

#129

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324

Color me shocked that I touched a nerve...

Abredon said:

You're wrong.
First:

Will she fight her at some point soon? Yes or no.
Will her mother die? Yes or no.
Will someone/something stronger show up? Yes or no.
Will she level up/gain skills/evolve? Yes or no.

A great many shows have the formula of the protagonist not dying in mid-story battles?
Try pretty much EVERY story/show/script EVER WRITTEN!

Yes. I don't know what your vague definition of "pretty much" is supposed to amount to, but there are exceptions. Regardless, most of these type of things are terrible in general, in part for that reason.

In any case, it's not the predictability itself that I necessarily hate; it's how needlessly dragged out it's been. I didn't need to watch 13 episodes of her "struggling" to kill monsters and leveling up endlessly. Get her into the real world so that she may influence and interact with it. That's what I'm interested in. To hell with these mindless level-up battles.

You CANNOT write a story that kills the Protagonist before the resolution.

It's happened before in various forms of media but this is moot. I think you misunderstand what I was getting at.

Caps lock count: 3

By definition, any such protagonist ISN'T the protagonist. Hamlet wins every fight until the end of the play. If Hamlet died in the middle, he wouldn't have been the protagonist.

You clearly don't understand what a protagonist is.

So you are saying that ALL battles in ALL stories are boring because you know that the protagonist won't die (the protagonist could be crippled and in bed for 3 years, but not dead).

This is again false, as there are exceptions. But in general I find most battles boring, yes.

However neither did you ask me what I found dull about it; you only asked what I found predictable. The two are not entirely synonymous.

Caps lock count: 6

You DIDN'T describe whether Kumoko would win or lose.

Her mom's gonna eat her and we're getting a new protagonist?

Holy shit, my respect for this series is about to shoot through the roof.

You DIDN'T describe what skills or innovative use of terrain/skills/etc. She would use.

Who cares? She could fart in her mom's face, shoot rainbow lasers or summon a pony. None of these would make me care about the fighting any more than how little I care now.

Caps lock count: 8

You are ALSO wrong in that a lot of battles don't show her in peril - the fight in episode 13 was one - she was never at risk of dying(the tatatects can't teleport), only of not winning.

Still not relevant.

The Anime DID skip a lot of similar fights where she simply overpowered enemies to level. They weren't necessary to the plot.
It ALSO skipped an important early fight, where she was left half dead for weeks hiding under a rock in Araba's cave recovering very slowly.

Okay...

And,

She'll be brought back, so who cares. It might as well not happen.

I think you missed the point. I pointed out the predictability of it since you asked, but that on it's own isn't what made it dull. The fights are incessantly dragged out way too long and it's the same damn thing every time, with zero effect on anything other than herself. They have no relevance to the outside world. It's just endless killing things and leveling up and getting skills and evolving. 13 episodes of this now. I have hopes that's about to change though.

You want to know what the best fight by far in this series was? Kumo vs the human mage (Rendant or something) and his companions. Because it's finally an interaction with the outside world and giving us at least a small glimpse of something that could be relevant down the line to other characters, the overall plot, and the world at large.

Also 11 uses of Caps lock dude? Take a chill pill. You can like or dislike whatever you want to. It's not the big deal you're making it out to be.

BStrifeSword114Apr 15, 2021 11:16 AM

Apr 15, 2021 11:27 AM

#130

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Jan 2021

168

duhu1148 said:
Color me shocked that I touched a nerve...

Abredon said:

You're wrong.
First:

Will she fight her at some point? Yes or no.
Will her mother die? Yes or no.
Will someone/something stronger show up? Yes or no.
Will she level up/gain skills/evolve? Yes or no.

A great many shows have the formula of the protagonist not dying in mid-story battles?
Try pretty much EVERY story/show/script EVER WRITTEN!

Yes. I don't know what your vague definition of "pretty much" is supposed to amount to, but there are exceptions. Regardless, most of these type of things are terrible in general, in part for that reason.

In any case, it's not the predictability itself that I necessarily hate; it's how needlessly dragged out it's been. I didn't need to watch 13 episodes of her "struggling" to kill monsters and leveling up endlessly. Get her into the real world so that she may influence and interact with it. That's what I'm interested in. To hell with these mindless level-up battles.

You CANNOT write a story that kills the Protagonist before the resolution.

It's happened before in various forms of media but this is moot. I think you misunderstand what I was getting at.

Caps lock count: 3

By definition, any such protagonist ISN'T the protagonist. Hamlet wins every fight until the end of the play. If Hamlet died in the middle, he wouldn't have been the protagonist.

You clearly don't understand what a protagonist is.

So you are saying that ALL battles in ALL stories are boring because you know that the protagonist won't die (the protagonist could be crippled and in bed for 3 years, but not dead).

This is again false, as there are exceptions. But in general I find most battles boring, yes.

However neither did you ask me what I found dull about it; you only asked what I found predictable. The two are not entirely synonymous.

Caps lock count: 6

You DIDN'T describe whether Kumoko would win or lose.

Her mom's gonna eat her and we're getting a new protagonist?

Holy shit, my respect for this series is about to shoot through the roof.

You DIDN'T describe what skills or innovative use of terrain/skills/etc. She would use.

Who cares? She could fart in her mom's face, shoot rainbow lasers or summon a pony. None of these would make me care about the fighting any more than how little I care now.

Caps lock count: 8

You are ALSO wrong in that a lot of battles don't show her in peril - the fight in episode 13 was one - she was never at risk of dying(the tatatects can't teleport), only of not winning.

Still not relevant.

The Anime DID skip a lot of similar fights where she simply overpowered enemies to level. They weren't necessary to the plot.
It ALSO skipped an important early fight, where she was left half dead for weeks hiding under a rock in Araba's cave recovering very slowly.

Okay...

And,

She'll be brought back, so who cares. It might as well not happen.

I think you missed the point. I pointed out the predictability of it since you asked, but that on it's own isn't what made it dull. The fights are incessantly dragged out way too long and it's the same damn thing every time, with zero effect on anything other than herself. They have no relevance to the outside world. It's just endless killing things and leveling up and getting skills and evolving. 13 episodes of this now. I have hopes that's about to change though.

You want to know what the best fight by far in this series was? Kumo vs the human mage (Rendant or something) and his companions. Because it's finally an interaction with the outside world and giving us at least a small glimpse of something that could be relevant down the line to other characters and the world at large.

Also 11 uses of Caps lock dude? Take a chill pill.

Name a single story where the protagonist dies before the resolution without being replaced by another protagonist.
There are stories with multiple protagonists, but they are rare, and there is always a protagonist in play.

I asked you to describe the next fight (since it's so predictable, you must know how the fight proceeds, who is winning at each stage, and who ends up winning the fight. Note that a loser of a fight can live).
You stated a fight that is foreshadowed and looks inevitable, but which will not be the next fight.
You then stated a couple of common threads of many of Kumoko's fights, but gave no description

To be fair, I don't know whether the next fight in the anime will be on the human or Kumoko side. I don't know if the anime will skip some of the next fights on Kumoko's side, but I do know that there is more going on in those fights than you realize. These fights will have future consequences .

I understand you don't want to see the RPG grind, but it is a significant part of the story.
You probably also don't care about the skills and the System, which also are a significant part of the story.
You probably don't bother asking:
1. Who created the System?
2. Why are certain skills there?
3. Why do some skills have a cryptic description?
4. What do I, MA, and W mean?
5. Who is narrating the skill gains?
6. Why are some skills essentially useless or traps?
7. Why is our protagonist nameless?

These are all questions that arise during/because of these "boring" fights.

Apr 15, 2021 4:09 PM

#131