| Some people dismiss certain shows / movies because they think they are "pretentious". This is a definition that may vary from person to person which causes it to become a buzzword in some cases, unfortunately. From my perspective, something can't be pretentious if it's genuinely trying to convey a message through its out-of-the-norm storytelling or structure in an effective way. That means that if someone is able to dissect an anime's messages because the story is told in such a planned out way (for example, through foreshadowing and theme consistency), then it's probably unfair to dismiss it as being "pretentious" without giving it a second look at least. For some practical examples, when I watched Lain for the first time a few years ago, I honestly thought to myself that some scenes were basically there just "for show" or to "look smart", but I'm rewatching it now and analysing each frame basically along with two friends, and the amount of content I got from three 20-minutes episodes baffled me - it's really something else. Many of Ikuhara's works are also many times dismissed as dumb or over complicated due to their "overuse" of symbolism and repetitive scenes, but to me it's fascinating to get in the mind of the creator to understand why he did what he did. Anyway, I'd like to know your perspetives on this matter! Is there an anime you thought it was trying too hard to impress but to no avail? Or you think of those cases as you simply not being in the mood to look deeper into it? EDIT: Video made after checking all the replies |
NostalgikApr 19, 2021 7:35 AM
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spaesu said: im pretty sure most people who call anime "pretentious" just dont understand it. although there are some shows like classroom of the elite that really are I'm neutral here, but by ur logic, couldn't you be not understanding it? It's kinda hypocritical to label ppl that use the work pretentious as something, then go on to call smthn pretentious. |
Please sign up for MangAlert! It's a little project I made that I'd really like to see the light of day and some users. MangAlert! (please sign up!) GitHub Repo (please star!) |
| I don't think I've ever used this term to describe a show. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
spaesu said: im pretty sure most people who call anime "pretentious" just dont understand it. although there are some shows like classroom of the elite that really are I'm not sure that pretentious = too complex, because on the contrary I've been reading tons of reviews calling Wonder Egg Priority pretentious because it shoves every message in your face without subtlety. |
| Maybe I’m just stupid but I honestly don’t understand how media can be pretentious. Can the creators, scriptwriters and directors be pretentious? Yeah, but I find it hard understand how their pretentiousness is translated to actual books, films, and anime. I guess I’ve always viewed it as a word to describe someone’s behaviour. |
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| An anime is pretentious when the author tries to shove down my throat a theme(for instance) acting like it's deep, when in reality it's just cheap and worthless trash. |
| An ambitious anime that I do not like. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Kafka, Fu Xuan, Jingliu, Topaz and Huohuo. |
| I'm still waiting for the day where this critique actually means something. Ironically people pretending like this is an actual critique in itself is propably the only form of pretending in this |
| For me pretentiousness is the very definition of try-hard. Sometimes it might not even be bad, just an idea that the author took too far and out of their own reach. Sometimes it might be trying to probe an issue and idea they clearly don't understand or know how to tackle; or worse, that they do understand, but they think it's so ingenious that they need to get out their way to explain it to our lesser viewer minds. But frankly, I don't see that much pretension in anime and manga, although I haven't seen many of the ones that are usually labelled like that. The closest thing I can think of is Psycho-Pass with its constant literally allusions that seem rather unnecessary at times and Bunny Girl with its Wikipedia based physics, and some seinen manga like Homunculus. Even things that are usually called pretentious like Evangelion or Tatami Galaxy are just called like that because of the obnoxious fans and not because of the anime itself. |
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| Revolutionary Girl Utena is the most pretentious anime I've ever watched...it annoys me to no end...but Shigatsu Wa Kimi No Uso is REALLY up there. xD fourteen-year-olds don't talk or think like this. Here's a bonus: Pretentious af movie: Bladerunner. Holy crap, do I hate this thing. "ASK ME WHAT THIS MEANS. I'M SO DEEP!!!!" lol Pretentious directors: M. Night Shyamalan. Like try watching 'Lady in the Water'. Lmao Pretentious authors: V.C. Andrews and Stephanie Meyers Pretentious cartoon character: Brian Griffin. Man, you wanna smack him sometimes. xD At least Stewie puts him in his place. |
ChiibiMar 31, 2021 9:27 AM
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| I personally don't like labeling any form of art as pretentious to avoid downplaying the ambition behind it. Even if I think its delivery is heavy handed or half baked I'm not going to do so because I didn't enjoy it an arbitrary amount. I only care how much I enjoy what I'm seeing rather than how deep or thought provoking its "trying" to be. It either hits differently or it doesn't. It isn't that deep. |
SignsOfSuicideMar 31, 2021 9:56 AM
| Don't let others ruin things for you. Even if a toxic fan pisses in your cereal, you could just get another bowl of cereal. My Anime List - My Manga List |
| Hah, i totaly agree with Taka-TIN-Baguette-Man above me. Ergo Proxy is the ONE everyone is looking for. There is hardly a greater pseudo intellectual grit than this anime. I don't hate him and would even look at him a second time. However, the title did almost everything it could do wrong. |
| Anime that uses already existing philosophical quotes and people rather than forming it on their own. Like ergo proxy and psycho pass, altho i liked both. ergo proxy uses the saying, "i think therefore i am," hamlet, and more psycho pass uses a bunch of famous smart people quotes. thats why berserk is not pretentious, it adds none of that but manages to build a philosophical atmosphere around it |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I agree with your SEL take. I watched it quite a while ago and it was a surreal yet compelling experience to say the least. Though, I'm pretty sure I didn't understand everything, so I'll rewatch it sometime in the future. OT: Gekidol maybe? |
IrrelevantGuyMar 31, 2021 9:53 AM
| For me: Yuri Kuma Arashi and Psycho Pass |
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AquamarineNT said: Yuri Kuma Arashi isn't, I love that show.For me: Yuri Kuma Arashi and Psycho Pass But hell yes, Psycho-Pass is the epitome of pretentious wannabe smart. Just wanted to suggest it myself but I see I'm not alone here. Rationale: Psycho-Pass' writers consider quoting smart people makes them look smart too. But all they do is to admit they are too dumb to convey their message in an acutual story with dialog they actually wrote themselves. And I won't even ask for visual story telling. They are not able to write their OWN exposition dump even, I can't expect miracles. |
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Chiibi said: Pretentious af movie: Bladerunner. Holy crap, do I hate this thing. "ASK ME WHAT THIS MEANS. I'M SO DEEP!!!!" lol Blade Runner is the very opposite of pretentious, though. It's a watered down version of the novel (that's not overtly complex to begin with) that got a bit confusing because of the questionable editing in virtually all existing versions and some weird narrative decisions. There's no deep meaning to it, it's basically "robots have emotions and that's sad, now look at my cool flying car!". And I say that as a fan of the movie. Now Blade Runner 2049, THAT'S pretentious. Some of the dialogue in that movie made me cringe. |
Satyr_iconMar 31, 2021 10:25 AM
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Satyr_icon said: Chiibi said: Pretentious af movie: Bladerunner. Holy crap, do I hate this thing. "ASK ME WHAT THIS MEANS. I'M SO DEEP!!!!" lol Blade Runner is the very opposite of pretentious, though. It's a watered down version of the novel (that's not overtly complex to begin with) that got a bit confusing because of the questionable editing in virtually all existing versions and some weird narrative decisions. There's no deep meaning to it, it's basically "robots have emotions and that's sad, now look at my cool flying car!". And I say that as a fan of the movie. Now Blade Runner 2049, THAT'S pretentious. Some of the dialogue in that movie made me cringe. I thought the direction of the 80s movie was pretentious...as well as the dialogue and acting...but if you're a fan, I respect your view. xD didn't see the new one lol |
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| Watching Neon Genesis Evangelion, I'm starting to understand why people call it pretentious. It's getting so confusing so I guess some people think they're very smart if they can piece it together |
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| For me it was Psycho Pass. One of the antagonist is way too smug. Looking at you Shogo Makishima. This man is a literature/english buff. So he would try to play around his knowledge of the medium to sound smart and deep. But he is so full of himself. Yet he's too charismatic and selfish that I can't help but love the guy. |
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Chiibi said: Pretentious cartoon character: Brian Griffin. Man, you wanna smack him sometimes. xD At least Stewie puts him in his place. Quagmire also put him in his place, comparing him to Holden Caulfield from The Catcher in the Rye. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVFp8KTEw-k Satyr_icon said: Blade Runner is the very opposite of pretentious, though. It's a watered down version of the novel Though I have not read that particular novel, I would say the author's other works are pretentious. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Satyr_icon said: May I ask why you rate Psycho-Pass 9/10 then? Is that owed to objectivity?The closest thing I can think of is Psycho-Pass with its constant literally allusions that seem rather unnecessary at times and Bunny Girl with its Wikipedia based physics |
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| Good to see that nothing changed. Still waiting for the day of anyone making a valid point after dismissing something as pretentious |
| There is no such thing as a pretentious anime and people who call anime pretentious cannot think of a proper criticism |
 _______I like rocks__  |
Lucifrost said: Though I have not read that particular novel, I would say the author's other works are pretentious. Yeah, by 'watered down' I didn't really mean as a bad thing, just different, as I liked the movie better. I enjoyed the mind game in the book and stuff like the Mood Organ, but the more 'philosophical' parts of it really are...I wouldn't say pretentious, just dull. His writing style got on my nerves as well. I think the one thing I liked better in the book was Deckard himself which felt more human and interesting. Not worth a read though, Neuromancer and Snow Crash are far better reads. inim said: May I ask why you rate Psycho-Pass 9/10 then? Is that owed to objectivity? Just because it's pretentious doesn't mean it's bad. The anime is still fun. |
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Satyr_icon said: I guess we must agree to disagree here. Being pretentious is among the cardinal sins of writing. And for Psycho-Pass, story, writing, and characters are far below average. Without the production values, this would be a 2/10 to me - trash grade.inim said: Just because it's pretentious doesn't mean it's bad. The anime is still fun.May I ask why you rate Psycho-Pass 9/10 then? Is that owed to objectivity? |
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inim said: I guess we must agree to disagree here. Being pretentious is among the cardinal sins of writing. And for Psycho-Pass, story, writing, and characters are far below average. Without the production values, this would be a 2/10 to me - trash grade. It depends on the amount of pretentiousness imo. The only real pretentious thing about Psycho-Pass were the random literature quotes that didn't amount to much. Apart from that, it was just a fun and well-produced cyberpunk adventure. |
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Satyr_icon said: Well, "only" ... to me it completely destroys the show's enjoyment to cringe every other scene. I really had to force myself trough it. I'm a big cyberpunk genre fan troughout different media types (movie, book, anime) and this is one of the worst mainstream offerings, sorry. Beside the horrible quotes, it's also the shounen wish-fulfillment MC, who has the depth and charisma of a wet blanket. Another Wunderkind in command of adults by the grace of an ridiculously forced plot convenience and lazy writing. She also literally has a built-in plot armor, guns do not shoot at her. The villains are evil because they they can. And do villain things like meat sculptures, because the viewers want edge and the authors seem to think they are stupid so they better rub it into their faces. And so on and so forth.inim said: I guess we must agree to disagree here. Being pretentious is among the cardinal sins of writing. And for Psycho-Pass, story, writing, and characters are far below average. Without the production values, this would be a 2/10 to me - trash grade. It depends on the amount of pretentiousness imo. The only real pretentious thing about Psycho-Pass were the random literature quotes that didn't amount to much. Apart from that, it was just a fun and well-produced cyberpunk adventure. Psycho-pass is a story a 12 year old will produce when tasked to write something adult. Utter shounen trash and a disgrace of the cyberpunk genre. Verdict: Premise - good. Animation and art - above average. Writing - 100% trash. Characters - below average. Enjoyment - none. Overall: Below average. |
inimMar 31, 2021 1:14 PM
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Lepru said: An anime is pretentious when the author tries to shove down my throat a theme(for instance) acting like it's deep, when in reality it's just cheap and worthless trash. Basically how I feel about Clannad. The drama felt very pretentious. It never felt deserved, they would just shove that dramatic music in and have the girls crying about something pathetic. |
| I think the final season of oregairu gave off those vibes |
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| Hold up, Blade Runner 2049 is the greatest film of the century and if you don't think so you clearly aren't pretentious enough. |
| Stuff try so hard to be political e.g. AOT are pretentious to me. I am fine with it most of the time. |
| i don't THINK i've ever called an anime pretentious if it doesn't hold up then it just doesn't hold up, narrative failed, oh well i mean like, tf why you calling dramas 'pretentious'? they try to make you feel something, it fails making you feel, it's gotta be pretentious lmao, shouldn't have tried |
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| Personally, I don't really use that word. When I judge an anime in this regard, its either a) there was an actual theme/explorational concept or b) there was not. In the case of b), there are subcases of I) the staff knows and don't take their own show too seriously or II) they don't and write some vague philosophical dialogue that ultimately doesn't get demonstrated by the events of the plot. In the case of II) sometimes, it is x) true and sometimes its y) false. However, the fact that we are at b) already makes me take off 2 points from an anime out of 10; it's only fair to the works that are case a). II) does not always bother me but sometimes when it's complete bullshit I may make a note of it, but its rare. Whether its x) or y) doesn't normally matter, though I'm more likely to complain if it's y). |
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
| I dislike using pretentious to describe a show because I feel like it's quite a weak description. It doesn't say anything about the show for me, and either mean that the person watching it didn't understand it, or just didn't enjoy it, or that it had some massive flaw, which I did not get find out because the only description was 'pretentious'. Of course, I believe the word pretentious can be used, but also that you must explain why you are using it, and reasons for doing so. To me, a pretentious anime is an anime which attempts to be intellectual, and uses that as a shield to defend having bad animation and/or writing. |
| I just use the word sucks, decent, and good anime, never use pretentious. |
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| I find the less amount of people who watch the series in question the more pretentious it gets. |
Nirinbo said: I would say it's weird for someone to call something pretentious for shoving its themes in their face. It's usually the opposite: being too vague and / or trying to get its point across in a very roundabout way. spaesu said: im pretty sure most people who call anime "pretentious" just dont understand it. although there are some shows like classroom of the elite that really are I'm not sure that pretentious = too complex, because on the contrary I've been reading tons of reviews calling Wonder Egg Priority pretentious because it shoves every message in your face without subtlety. Regarding Wonder Egg, though, I'd say while its themes are pretty straightforward and easy to understand, it leaves many things open for interpretation and rewards people who look deeper into it. |
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Nostalgik said: Some people dismiss certain shows / movies because they think they are "pretentious". This is a definition that may vary from person to person which causes it to become a buzzword in some cases, unfortunately. From my perspective, something can't be pretentious if it's genuinely trying to convey a message through its out-of-the-norm storytelling or structure in an effective way. That means that if someone is able to dissect an anime's messages because the story is told in such a planned out way (for example, through foreshadowing and theme consistency), then it's probably unfair to dismiss it as being "pretentious" without giving it a second look at least. For some practical examples, when I watched Lain for the first time a few years ago, I honestly thought to myself that some scenes were basically there just "for show" or to "look smart", but I'm rewatching it now and analysing each frame basically along with two friends, and the amount of content I got from three 20-minutes episodes baffled me - it's really something else. Many of Ikuhara's works are also many times dismissed as dumb or over complicated due to their "overuse" of symbolism and repetitive scenes, but to me it's fascinating to get in the mind of the creator to understand why he did what he did. Anyway, I'd like to know your perspetives on this matter! Is there an anime you thought it was trying too hard to impress but to no avail? Or you think of those cases as you simply not being in the mood to look deeper into it? You mean "cult" shows? Anyways, compared to Cinema, anime IS NOT pretentious, it is so rare that can't even be considered. What we can say for sure is that Anime have to deal with lots of Pretentious Fans who try to argue that their taste is the most absolute superior thing ever. Poor monogatari series, it is one of their favorite victims. |
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GreatAide said: That's a great point. I guess when some people say that a drama was "too forced" or "shoved in your face", then that might be a variation of calling it pretentious.i don't THINK i've ever called an anime pretentious if it doesn't hold up then it just doesn't hold up, narrative failed, oh well i mean like, tf why you calling dramas 'pretentious'? they try to make you feel something, it fails making you feel, it's gotta be pretentious lmao, shouldn't have tried I think dramas suffer a bit more than usual from subjectivity from person to person, much like comedies. Like, can a comedy be "pretentious" when it's trying to make you laugh, but it fails? Much like with dramas, I think what you said still applies to comedies: just because its joke didn't land for you, why would that make it pretentious? Anyhow, every case is unique, and in a conversation I might accept someone calling something pretentious if it's well justified, but in those cases, as you mentioned, welp, it didn't hold up to what it was trying to do. |
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| Wonder egg priority. honestly I think pretentious anime are quite rare and it’s the fanbase that are usually the pretentious ones |
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