Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Gou Episode 23 Discussion

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May 2020

610

ManWild said:

Yuyunarutoballz said:
Wow. Someone just pointed out to me that when Teppei appeared in the earlier episodes when Satoko was coming to school just fine and without scars that he was actually being nice to her and trying to change to a better person. And Satoko took advantage of that kindness and told him that Keiichi was bullying her and THAT’S why Teppei attacked Keiichi in that one loop (only to be killed anyway) ouch...my heart

Ngl, that makes me mad. I don't know if I'll ever forgive Satoko for that

Satoko could have gone one step further and tell him that Keichii had abused her. Which would make Teppei feel exceptionally bad. Justifying what we've seen.

It was always the assumption that Satoko manipulated Teppei. With drugs or by taking advantage of his will to change.

Mar 11, 2021 8:47 PM

#155

Saomii

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Oct 2016

121

That was the most alternative world i dont wanna see. i mean some old man development? Like really?
And i though he will suicide when rejected by satoko in the last minutes.
I got paranoid just watching this show.

YES

Mar 11, 2021 8:58 PM

#156

Saomii

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Oct 2016

121

Yuyunarutoballz said:
Wow. Someone just pointed out to me that when Teppei appeared in the earlier episodes when Satoko was coming to school just fine and without scars that he was actually being nice to her and trying to change to a better person. And Satoko took advantage of that kindness and told him that Keiichi was bullying her and THAT’S why Teppei attacked Keiichi in that one loop (only to be killed anyway) ouch...my heart

Ohh wow, i didnt see that coming.
If satoko already do something in the first place....
No no, i dont wanna think that.

YES

Mar 11, 2021 8:59 PM

#157

random_weirdo

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Sep 2020

207

This episode was... weird for me. There were some things I liked (as people have mentioned before me, criticizing something is not synonymous with hating on it) and some things that were iffy.

Supposedly, last episode we left off in Satoko asking not-Featherine-yes-Eua to start giving Rika the ability to transport her memories back after dying in any world. The way it was framed, it made it seem as if Featherine had granted that wish right now and this was going to start applying next loop. The logical succesion would be having one loop where Rika goes to St. Lucia again, thus she can remember being there as opposed to drowning with Satoko in 1984, where Satoko would let her get a taste of what she had wanted to then rip it away as part of her plan to break Rika.

But now, we got instead the game tournament, where Satoko went through minimum 6 loops (if we're considering that this event, which was said in OG to be very random, happened 6 worlds in a row), and then maybe 2 more loops where Teppei dies, although these two may be part of the previous 6 loops and Teppei could just be remembering them in this 7th loop (this isn't the same world as the one where Satoko won the card game, as she was in the Sea of Fragments after that). So, now that Rika has her ability to remember loops back, why didn't she remember any of this in Onidamashi?

Also, I'm 70% sure this isn't the same loop as Tataridamashi, since Teppei's attitude in ep 9 with Satoko was brasher, and Satoko had the blackened eyes and sounded very dejected, while here she was more open to him after he saved her. Although it may in fact be Tataridamashi and it turns out that the Teppei redemption is a fake out, he returns to his bad ways and forces her to live with him.

Anyway, moving on beyond the loops, it was kind of ridiculous for Teppei to remember past loops due to being "family" with Satoko. If this is a problem of subs, please correct me, but they said that the ability to remember past loops affected "direct relatives". The only thing, Teppei is not Satoko's direct relative. There are different definitions of the term, some include spouses or cousins, others only include direct blood relatives, but I'm pretty sure that your step-father's brother doesn't count as a direct relative in any way.

I'm conflicted about Teppei's apparent redemption arc or at least sympathisation (I don't think that's a word, but you get what I mean) attempt. On the one hand, I think that suddenly making abusers into sympathetic guys is super problematic, as it can negate the victim's struggles and make people take the abuse less seriously. This is a problem, especially when it's so hard for victims to be believed in the first place, like we already saw in Tatarigoroshi/Minagoroshi.

The OG Higurashi was very tactful on how it handled abuse, showing how hard abuse can be for victims, friends and how it can destroy them. It also depicted how difficult it was (and still is to some extent) to get authorities to believe/interfere. I feel that the choices that Gou has made on Satoko and Teppei's story has somehow reversed that, showing that the alleged abuser was actually sympathetic and that the supposed victim was actually making it up. This is quite harmful for real-life victims of abuse, who see a character they can relate to be a complete lie and validate the inaction of authorities towards abuse. Someone as socially conscious and involved with child abuse (he was a social worker for a time, I believe) as Ryukishi should know the negative impact these kinds of things have.

On the other hand, the theme of forgiveness and of having good inside you that can wake up with introspection is one of the main points of OG Higurashi, and I've always thought that people indeed can change and we should give them the benefit of doubt in case it's geniune, instead of shunning them immediately (that's the biggest problem with today's cancel culture - deciding who is guilty and then ruining their lives, even when they haven't had all the facts yet and that person may be innocent). So I'm still open, I won't judge this until I see where this is going.

Some things that I liked: Teppei's story was well done. I despise Teppei and don't want to sympathise with that scumbag, but if it were any other character I know I would be sympathising with them already. People's reactions here speak of how well done it was.

I also liked how they handled Satoko's reactions to her uncle, as they show that even behind tough exteriors, trauma victims can still be... well, traumatized and it can resurface at any moment, even years after the traumatic events. I felt it was very genuine that Satoko didn't immediately embrace Teppei's offer, that even if she was somewhat grateful with him for saving her from the thugs, the harm he had done was still real.

But at the same time, this takes the show in an opposite direction from what they had been conveying. I don't see how the same person who was haunted by Teppei would so callously give up on her brother, the one who defended her from her abusers, and leave him for dead. Up till ep 22, it had seemed as if Satoko had killed the past, letting go of her history and focusing only on Rika to regain her happiness instead. The lack of references and flashbacks to her past to explain her descent indicated that it was only about Rika and her. But now suddenly they bring back her past traumas and make it seem that they're going to play a role after all. My opinion on this will depend on where they take this in future episodes.

I liked not-Featherine/Eua in general. Her explanations and the way she seems to be messing with the board are great. If you think about it, Teppei shouldn't have been able to remember the first death scene, as that's something that happened long after he had died and was from the perspective of Kuma. That, and the fact that Featherine hasn't told anything about Onigari-no-ryou to Satoko while Hanyuu did tell Rika, hints strongly towards Featherine just using Satoko to prolong the Higurashi board game, but setting her up to ultimately fail, as she still gives her cat the vital piece to defeating her enemy.

Lastly, just a friendly reminder that in the OG VNs, Satoko was able to completely memorize the cards during the tournament, and she used a trap only to ensure that she was able to get the turn and win. Sure it's not as impressive as getting all the cards in one gou, but they really want me to think that Satoko has a bad memory when the OG shows the opposite. Watch 35:29-38:48.

random_weirdoMar 11, 2021 9:08 PM

Mar 11, 2021 9:14 PM

#158

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May 2020

610

@random_weirdo

Wow. I didnt remember that part in Watanagashi.

Obviously Featherine/Eua as a sort of writer herself would understand the message of the original (Rika defeating Fate) and make it happen in Gou as well. She doesnt directly manipulate Satoko but does withold key information regarding Rika to make Satoko dislike her. In the end she just wants something interesting to enjoy. Satoko and Rika both perpetually not understanding and killing each other is entertainment.

Eua does seem to raise Satokos confidence a lot. Which will probably lead to Satoko making a serious Mistake sooner or later in regards to how she manages the loops.

Eua states that she could Have Rika remember her deaths Easily since her Horn is not damaged like Hanyuus but straight afterwards doesnt Satoko say that she will take advantage of the fact that Rika doesnt remember i So I guess she doesnt give it, but if Fragement Hanyuu secretly went and gave that power to Rika on her own volition, Eua should still be aware of it.

Mar 11, 2021 9:31 PM

#159

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Jul 2016

93

Lil-Bird said:

This Teppei redemption arc (if this is exactly what it is) bothers me because nothing about him shows he is deserving of it. Takano at least had ambitions the audience could sympathize with even though she went off the path over time with her god complex. Teppei has always been shown to be an abusive sloven man who didn't care for his family (hence Rina being his sidepiece and that he doesn't carry his weight around the house) and manipulated and threatened Satoko into being his slave. He even considered using her for sexual purposes. And he was involved in badger games beating money out of unsuspecting men. He has no redeeming qualities as a result, which is why it's satisfying to see him getting his head beat in. Now murder is wrong no matter what as we've seen time and time again, but you couldn't say Teppei didn't deserve what was coming to him.

Satoko has become such an unlikable brat for ignoring Rika's out-reached hand for help and then blaming her for why she has no friends, is at risk of being kicked out of St. Lucia, and for daring to leave Hinamizawa, her pettiness and selfishness even after learning about what her best friend went through is starting to balance out people's opinions on Teppei despite him being an established monster. What started out as a meme has become an uncomfortable reality in the series but it's not an easy pill to swallow. And frankly, I don't think anyone should force themselves to swallow that just because Ryukishi wrote the script or one's loyalty to a favorite franchise.

It may be an arc, or it might be just this episode. Setting sympathy aside for a moment, the whole point of this Teppei episode from a plot perspective was to show the memory crossover phenomenon Eau was talking about earlier in the episode in action and to imply that Satoko exploited the hell out of it; just from that alone, this redemption plot makes plenty of sense in the narrative.

As for sympathy, for me personally, I would sympathize with anyone who genuinely admits their faults and takes steps to right their wrongs, whether they actually accomplish that goal or not. I wouldn't forgive them, and I probably wouldn't stop hating them. But I'd be sympathetic to them; maybe that's just me. But Teppei in this episode to me was extremely sympathetic and scary; sympathetic because he's a violent narcissist who swallowed his pride and sociopathy off of a short period of self-reflection triggered by a few nightmares; scary because the difference between an empathetic proper-Uncle Teppei and the shit stain we're all familiar with is literally just that: a couple of bad dreams. Basically speaking, it's the flip side of the One Bad Day quote from Joker.

As for Satoko, the meme is just that: a meme. Satoko isn't literally doing all this just because she can't get good grades. She's lost her pride and everything dear to her to a hostile, unfamiliar environment, and, most importantly, she was betrayed - from her perspective, mind you - by her closest friend who looks down on her when 5 years ago, they were the biggest RIVALS and the closest of friends. Ryukishi beat that aspect of their relationship pretty thoroughly throughout the first half imo.

Even in everyday friendships, it feels less genuine when one side completely dominates the other, let alone the rival-friendship dynamic they have being ripped to shreds, let alone the feeling of inadequacy from that torn dynamic being validated by an (perceived) act of betrayal and disgusting glares from everyone around her. And to top it all off, she did the thing a ton of us wished she'd do before episode 21: open up to her friend and talk it out. Nothing happened. And when she tried to tear that friendship apart, Rika's "I want both" response made that avenue basically impossible.

Mar 11, 2021 9:31 PM

#160

Ernestalice_21

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Feb 2021

8

As many people have stated, the finger snapping is cringe. It's actually confusing since I don't really know what she did. Did Satoko kill themselves (because Rika has to die before her so they can be in the same fragment, or did she abandon that)? Did she turn back the time (some people suggested this)?

Also, considering Satoko even got traumatized by the box and Teppei's abuse, does dying not actually hurt her? Because if she doesn't feel pain when dying, it explains how she can be so calm about it.

I like seeing Teppei's character development and I hope he won't be forgiven that easily. I think he'll fail in this timeline. I mean, Shion regretted her action, but it needs many timelines before she got to Satoshi. I feel like Teppei should have something like that too.

Mar 11, 2021 9:34 PM

#161

YuyoAlberto

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Mar 2019

927

Mysterious Vibe thru all episode... and i liked that...

Final Episode...?....

PS: 25-30 announced! :D

Nyan-Pasu!... [ Ara Ara ] [ Waifus ]

Mar 11, 2021 9:36 PM

#162

random_weirdo

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Sep 2020

207

Lil-Bird said:
This Teppei redemption arc (if this is exactly what it is) bothers me because nothing about him shows he is deserving of it. Takano at least had ambitions the audience could sympathize with even though she went off the path over time with her god complex. Teppei has always been shown to be an abusive sloven man who didn't care for his family (hence Rina being his sidepiece and that he doesn't carry his weight around the house) and manipulated and threatened Satoko into being his slave. He even considered using her for sexual purposes. And he was involved in badger games beating money out of unsuspecting men. He has no redeeming qualities as a result, which is why it's satisfying to see him getting his head beat in. Now murder is wrong no matter what as we've seen time and time again, but you couldn't say Teppei didn't deserve what was coming to him.

Satoko has become such an unlikable brat for ignoring Rika's out-reached hand for help and then blaming her for why she has no friends, is at risk of being kicked out of St. Lucia, and for daring to leave Hinamizawa, her pettiness and selfishness even after learning about what her best friend went through is starting to balance out people's opinions on Teppei despite him being an established monster. What started out as a meme has become an uncomfortable reality in the series but it's not an easy pill to swallow. And frankly, I don't think anyone should force themselves to swallow that just because Ryukishi wrote the script or one's loyalty to a favorite franchise.

You said it perfectly. When I started to watch "nice" Teppei, I was laughing on the inside in disbelief, thinking "I can't believe the meme became real". It feels like a meta joke more than a development that should be there. Somewhere I heard that when you have redemption arcs for your character, the bigger their sin is, the bigger their redemptive actions have to be. I feel it's the same way for making people sympathise with characters. You can't just have a character with zero redeeming qualities have a fear of dying alone and think that is enough to earn him a redemption arc. Sure, it's great that he saved Satoko from the punks, but that does not come close to compensating all the shit he put Satoko and Satoshi through. Not to mention, compare his "tragic backstory" with someone like Takano, who had hardship after hardship in life. Even Satoko had to face heartbreak from losing a friend (partly self-caused but that's not the point). Teppei? He simply had a bad dream and became afraid of dying alone. That's not nearly enough credit for the writers to think I should now sympathise with him because of that.

4561236 said:
Wait so hold on

Satoko has all the time in the world to watch 100 years worth of memories/loops, and to waste kakera over a stupid memory game, but she can't use those powers to fucking study or get the shit right on St. Lucia???

Teppei being better than her is kinda ironic tbh.

That's literally what I thought. Spending time/kakera studying for all my classes until I can ace them Homura-style and then be free to pursue my best friend? Nah, I'll pass! I'd rather kill myself repeated times just so I can do a stupid trick in a card game.

Mar 11, 2021 9:52 PM

#163

random_weirdo

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Sep 2020

207

Chargecoulomb said:
@random_weirdo

Wow. I didnt remember that part in Watanagashi.

Obviously Featherine/Eua as a sort of writer herself would understand the message of the original (Rika defeating Fate) and make it happen in Gou as well. She doesnt directly manipulate Satoko but does withold key information regarding Rika to make Satoko dislike her. In the end she just wants something interesting to enjoy. Satoko and Rika both perpetually not understanding and killing each other is entertainment.

Eua does seem to raise Satokos confidence a lot. Which will probably lead to Satoko making a serious Mistake sooner or later in regards to how she manages the loops.

Eua states that she could Have Rika remember her deaths Easily since her Horn is not damaged like Hanyuus but straight afterwards doesnt Satoko say that she will take advantage of the fact that Rika doesnt remember i So I guess she doesnt give it, but if Fragement Hanyuu secretly went and gave that power to Rika on her own volition, Eua should still be aware of it.

Just wondering, after Satoko saw all the fragments, 100 years worth of them, what info do you think Euatherine is withholding from Satoko about Rika to make her dislike her? I thought that too at the beginning, but after Satoko saw the fragment I would think the cards are all on the table.

I agree with you about Euatherine's purpose with the game. She wants entertainment, but it's clear to her that Rika will be the ultimate victor. I think it's still too early to say whether Hanyuu/Eua gave Rika her memories of her deaths with or without Satoko's consent, and the answer to that could make things very different for both Satoko and Rika. If Satoko requested that, then she will need to permanently spawn-kill Rika from now on. If Hanyuu/Eua did that on her own, Satoko has already been decided to be the loser without even knowing. The not telling Satoko about the sword supports the latter.

I also agree that Euatherine seems to be buttering Satoko up a lot. Compare this to Hanyuu and Rika, where Hanyuu was not afraid to call out Rika on her mistakes and contradict her. She also never made things easy for Rika by helping her with her powers more than what was necessary to loop. Her advice was overly cautious, meaning Rika wouldn't do as much to change her fate. On the other hand, Featherine is always celebrating Satoko, letting her make all the decisions and always reminding her of how entertaining she is. This seems a breeding ground for Satoko's overconfidence, making her more prone to mistakes. Too much caution is a bad thing, but Satoko will meet the opposite problem: too much acting irresponsibly and carelessly will make her make mistakes and cause her downfall.

Maybe Featherine want a super tragic story of pitting two best friends and having one kill the other, and the ending will be Rika thwarting that by not giving her what she wants? Although forgiving Satoko would be the cliche way to go, if they're going to keep in line with OG's themes, that could happen.

Mar 11, 2021 10:05 PM

#164

Ernestalice_21

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Feb 2021

8

Lil-Bird said:

BakaDood said:
The people constantly shitting on and hating gou: why do you continue to watch a show you hate so much lmao

For the same reason you watch a bad show: to learn how to not make shit. Learn from others' mistakes, but as a critic, you also have to lay out your thoughts to explain why it is you believe something doesn't work in the narrative or with the characters. The creator(s) can take it or leave it, that's all on them, but the audience wants to walk away feeling like their time wasn't wasted, that they actually got something out of it.

Ryukishi made a wonderful world that is When They Cry, but 07th Expansion isn't all just Ryukishi, it's a team, and even the creator can lose sight of their creative vision 'cause sometimes an idea just doesn't work out or a change in mindset has affected the creation's outcome. Ryukishi is kinda like George Lucas in that he has ideas, but he needs someone to reel him in or the end result becomes a mess (see: Star Wars Episode I). And it can be a glorious mess, but it's a mess nonetheless. And I'm having a hard time figuring out if Ryukishi has been bouncing off ideas with someone with Gou which I think he needed if he wrote this solo.

This Teppei redemption arc (if this is exactly what it is) bothers me because nothing about him shows he is deserving of it. Takano at least had ambitions the audience could sympathize with even though she went off the path over time with her god complex. Teppei has always been shown to be an abusive sloven man who didn't care for his family (hence Rina being his sidepiece and that he doesn't carry his weight around the house) and manipulated and threatened Satoko into being his slave. He even considered using her for sexual purposes. And he was involved in badger games beating money out of unsuspecting men. He has no redeeming qualities as a result, which is why it's satisfying to see him getting his head beat in. Now murder is wrong no matter what as we've seen time and time again, but you couldn't say Teppei didn't deserve what was coming to him.

Satoko has become such an unlikable brat for ignoring Rika's out-reached hand for help and then blaming her for why she has no friends, is at risk of being kicked out of St. Lucia, and for daring to leave Hinamizawa, her pettiness and selfishness even after learning about what her best friend went through is starting to balance out people's opinions on Teppei despite him being an established monster. What started out as a meme has become an uncomfortable reality in the series but it's not an easy pill to swallow. And frankly, I don't think anyone should force themselves to swallow that just because Ryukishi wrote the script or one's loyalty to a favorite franchise.

Never be afraid to call out bad writing when you see it, even from critically-acclaimed creators. The manga that's serializing simultaneously with the anime has served as a nice compare-contrast because it may all just be the anime director's fault for screwing up the script. I mean, that's what you get when you put someone with no past experience in psychological-thriller in charge of a psychological-thriller, but there's also that chance the manga may still turn out messy in presentation. In which case, that's on Ryukishi since he's the one practically directing the mangaka (through the script or otherwise), and perhaps the editor as well especially if they're the middleman.

I read somewhere that OG Higurashi has the theme of giving happy ending for everyone, but Ryukishi regretted he couldn't give the same treatment to Teppei, so I think he's trying to do that here. I agree that Teppei was shown to be a scumbag, but he still deserves a lot more care to his character. What he doesn't deserve is an easy happy ending. He deserves much more failures, just like everyone in OG Higurashi have gone through multiple timelines to get to their happy ending.

What I think could have been done better in this episode is the process of him regretting his actions, starting to fear for dying alone. They could make him remember, but then trying to kill everyone who would kill him, failed, and the regret carved on him like how Shion regretted her action in Meakashi. Maybe it would make the story longer or feel like some kind of repetition, but I think the lack of sense of progress in Teppei's character change is what probably makes him feel OOC for some people.

Regardless, seeing Teppei in a new light is still interesting. The episode felt like 10 minutes even though we spent time with scumbags and nothing big happened yet.

Mar 11, 2021 10:21 PM

#165

Lil-Bird

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Apr 2013

1346

Rinkusan said:

It may be an arc, or it might be just this episode. Setting sympathy aside for a moment, the whole point of this Teppei episode from a plot perspective was to show the memory crossover phenomenon Eau was talking about earlier in the episode in action and to imply that Satoko exploited the hell out of it; just from that alone, this redemption plot makes plenty of sense in the narrative.

Unless Satoko is purposefully fucking with Teppei just because she can, how about Irie? Couldn't she have shown it off with him to make him have a freak-out given he's a doctor, and one who's crucial to Hinamizawa Syndrome? That would have so much more "oomph" than snippets of Teppei dying alone in his apartment.

As for sympathy, for me personally, I would sympathize with anyone who genuinely admits their faults and takes steps to right their wrongs, whether they actually accomplish that goal or not. I wouldn't forgive them, and I probably wouldn't stop hating them. But I'd be sympathetic to them; maybe that's just me. But Teppei in this episode to me was extremely sympathetic and scary; sympathetic because he's a violent narcissist who swallowed his pride and sociopathy off of a short period of self-reflection triggered by a few nightmares; scary because the difference between an empathetic proper-Uncle Teppei and the shit stain we're all familiar with is literally just that: a couple of bad dreams. Basically speaking, it's the flip side of the One Bad Day quote from Joker.

Teppei coming to a realization he's going to die alone isn't enough to get him to have a redemption arc when he didn't even look like he was actually sorry for abandoning Satoko. He didn't even think about her until he was in the pachinko parlor for a while and some guy had his daughter with him who clearly loves her papa. Why should he get sentimental over a father and his daughter when he's never bothered to spend time with his niece and nephew to begin with?

He's got a long way to go to prove he could change his life around and atone for what he did. While it's great that Satoko's having a hard time buying it because of her trauma, her behavior the past few episodes is suspicious and I think she's just using him as a guinea pig to test her new powers similar to how Maria fucked around with Rosa when she became a witch in attempt to get rid of the "bad" Rosa. I don't think he doesn't deserve it, mind you, I have no sympathy for him and don't mind seeing Satoko taking her anger out on him, but at the same time, the cruelty of it is much too mean-spirited for the Higurashi-verse and screws over the "murder is wrong, period, and here's the karma to prove it" message of Higurashi just for being heavily hinted at this may be turning into a Lambdadelta origin story (which still makes no sense).

Mar 11, 2021 10:56 PM

#166

catektty

Offline

Nov 2020

4

A very unpopular opinion that i hope you’ll respect... I didn’t enjoy this episode. I don’t like the fact that we are almost forced to feel bad for Teppei. Teppei is a disgusting person, and i don’t understand why the fandom are sympathetic towards him? Even though he got a redemption arc, we can’t let his past actions slip away. I hope that Satako is messing with him. I really do. I would honestly rather focus on the plot linked with Rika, that pay attention to Teppei. I was really in love with that plot and I hope we get back to it soon. Although I’m thankful for extra episodes, i hope that they aren’t full of filler, like this one arguably was.

Mar 11, 2021 11:05 PM

#167

daniboi1

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Oct 2020

52

Did she just really killed herself in the card game? wtf

Didn't she rig it in the other timelines?

Mar 11, 2021 11:13 PM

#168

sKyBlazer08

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Oct 2016

4354

Yo what the fuck, I can't believe an episode focused on Teppei would actually be such a great episode. I'll never forgive the things that he has done and you can never erase them, but I can always respect a man that tries to change himself and atone for the wrongs he has done. That was nice to see, a bit weird at first because of our image of Teppei, but it was really well done.

Some of the things that happened in Tataridamashi is starting to make sense, maybe Satoko used Teppei's newfound love for her into beating Keiichi's ass lmao. Imma need confirmation from the producers or some shit that there will really be more episodes, because there's no way they can conclude this in one more episode lmao, so I guess it's as good as confirmed. Really looking forward to the next episode.

Mar 11, 2021 11:36 PM

#169

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Aug 2009

20024

random_weirdo said:

I also agree that Euatherine seems to be buttering Satoko up a lot. Compare this to Hanyuu and Rika, where Hanyuu was not afraid to call out Rika on her mistakes and contradict her. She also never made things easy for Rika by helping her with her powers more than what was necessary to loop. Her advice was overly cautious, meaning Rika wouldn't do as much to change her fate. On the other hand, Featherine is always celebrating Satoko, letting her make all the decisions and always reminding her of how entertaining she is. This seems a breeding ground for Satoko's overconfidence, making her more prone to mistakes. Too much caution is a bad thing, but Satoko will meet the opposite problem: too much acting irresponsibly and carelessly will make her make mistakes and cause her downfall.

If all of this doesnt turn out to be just some coincidence I may be able to like Gou a bit more.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Mar 12, 2021 12:26 AM

#170

WGN27

Offline

Feb 2021

12

so it seems like we will get at least 30 episodes! I'm glad!! now I feel like they will have time to do what they needed to do from the beginning, dig into the characters more and they started already, Teppei was always just a piece of shit nothing more nothing else but now I can actually see him as a human being , it gives me mix feelings but I like it, I want to see how this affects Satoko, which we could see this episode is indeed truly marked by all the abuse she has received and is not healed at all

Mar 12, 2021 12:27 AM

#171

Phalaenopsisca

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Apr 2016

48

excuse my lame interpretation in advance,

EUA <=> AUE ~ Alternate Universe Entropy ( maybe AUauroa Entropy? )

Mar 12, 2021 3:23 AM

#172

Fr4ct4l

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Sep 2020

28

I liked this episode, shows more character to Teppei than just being a mean uncle. He's a human with love, hate and flaws just like everyone else.

The second half of Gou is turning out to be really frickin good.

Mar 12, 2021 4:22 AM

#173

Hulio

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Oct 2014

608

For everyone who is claiming that this will continue until episode 30 and over.
There's been a change.
The "Leaked" schedules have now changed Higurashi's airing slot with "UNDECIDED"

So we'll see what's going to happen:
They pulled a major troll on us
Someone accidentally leaked the continuation
It's been delayed
There is a new season/cour but it's not even supposed to be airing right after.

Take your pick.

Chargecoulomb said:
This is really damn confusing doesn't Eua say that Satoko has to kill Rika before herself to stay in the same Fragment.

I take it that her magic super paper finger snaps mean a death trap that's gonna fall on her head and kill her, but if she's gonna do that before killing Rika she's gonna end up in a different world - where the possibilities start to change and the cards will be different.

Is Gou contradicting its own Logic?

GOU's narrative, direction and points have been so confusing/pointless/whatever that I actually forgot about that.

Couldn't they just have made scene Satoko pulling the gun, shooting Rika and then herself in rinse and repeat instead?
But no, instead let's continue going snippety-snap. It's symbolic after all.

Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids.

Mar 12, 2021 7:09 AM

#174

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May 2020

610

About the leaks who knows? Any update on that? Well I guess we can be certain next week when 24 comes out.

Also Satoko seems to have a limit to how much she can loop now. Shes burning through loops left and right. The continued collection of memories will probably drive the main cast insane if it continues on.

Imagine that being Featherines goal. Shes egging Satoko on way too much anyways.

On the card scene they focused on Keichiis persepective right? If Satoko only Relied on loops she would need at least a few dozen loops to win probably. As someone who seems to be more sensitive to memories than the others he must have a insanely strong feeling of Deja Vu.

ChargecoulombMar 12, 2021 7:16 AM

Mar 12, 2021 7:17 AM

#175

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Jul 2016

93

Lil-Bird said:

Unless Satoko is purposefully fucking with Teppei just because she can, how about Irie? Couldn't she have shown it off with him to make him have a freak-out given he's a doctor, and one who's crucial to Hinamizawa Syndrome? That would have so much more "oomph" than snippets of Teppei dying alone in his apartment.

Teppei coming to a realization he's going to die alone isn't enough to get him to have a redemption arc when he didn't even look like he was actually sorry for abandoning Satoko. He didn't even think about her until he was in the pachinko parlor for a while and some guy had his daughter with him who clearly loves her papa. Why should he get sentimental over a father and his daughter when he's never bothered to spend time with his niece and nephew to begin with?

He's got a long way to go to prove he could change his life around and atone for what he did. While it's great that Satoko's having a hard time buying it because of her trauma, her behavior the past few episodes is suspicious and I think she's just using him as a guinea pig to test her new powers similar to how Maria fucked around with Rosa when she became a witch in attempt to get rid of the "bad" Rosa. I don't think he doesn't deserve it, mind you, I have no sympathy for him and don't mind seeing Satoko taking her anger out on him, but at the same time, the cruelty of it is much too mean-spirited for the Higurashi-verse and screws over the "murder is wrong, period, and here's the karma to prove it" message of Higurashi just for being heavily hinted at this may be turning into a Lambdadelta origin story (which still makes no sense).

I see zero reason she'd want to use this power on someone who always treated her well. I don't see how his role in understanding Hinamizawa Syndrome has anything to do with him being a good target let alone a good target from Satoko's perspective.

I agree; Teppei superficially coming to that realization isn't enough to have a redemption arc. But Teppei learning empathy and genuinely understanding how much he's hurt others is a wonderful reason to start the road towards some level of redemption. I think you're conflating redemption with complete forgiveness and a clean slate, and considering Teppei's tsundere-esque tough-guy act throughout the episode and his vow after Satoko's rejection, I'm very confident that "not dying alone" isn't even on his priority list.

Teppei does have a long way to go; that's what character redemption arcs are for.

Mar 12, 2021 7:21 AM

#176

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93

ibukimiu said:
A very unpopular opinion that i hope you’ll respect... I didn’t enjoy this episode. I don’t like the fact that we are almost forced to feel bad for Teppei. Teppei is a disgusting person, and i don’t understand why the fandom are sympathetic towards him? Even though he got a redemption arc, we can’t let his past actions slip away. I hope that Satako is messing with him. I really do. I would honestly rather focus on the plot linked with Rika, that pay attention to Teppei. I was really in love with that plot and I hope we get back to it soon. Although I’m thankful for extra episodes, i hope that they aren’t full of filler, like this one arguably was.

Redemption =/= a clean slate and forgetting the past. If anything, it's the complete opposite.

Mar 12, 2021 7:29 AM

#177

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Chargecoulomb said:
About the leaks who knows? Any update on that? Well I guess we can be certain next week when 24 comes out.

Also Satoko seems to have a limit to how much she can loop now. Shes burning through loops left and right. The continued collection of memories will probably drive the main cast insane if it continues on.

Imagine that being Featherines goal. Shes egging Satoko on way too much anyways.

On the card scene they focused on Keichiis persepective right? If Satoko only Relied on loops she would need at least a few dozen loops to win probably. As someone who seems to be more sensitive to memories than the others he must have a insanely strong feeling of Deja Vu.

Witch of Words KOne(bad attempt at giving him a witch's name). Do it Ryuukishi.

Rinkusan said:

Lil-Bird said:

Unless Satoko is purposefully fucking with Teppei just because she can, how about Irie? Couldn't she have shown it off with him to make him have a freak-out given he's a doctor, and one who's crucial to Hinamizawa Syndrome? That would have so much more "oomph" than snippets of Teppei dying alone in his apartment.

Teppei coming to a realization he's going to die alone isn't enough to get him to have a redemption arc when he didn't even look like he was actually sorry for abandoning Satoko. He didn't even think about her until he was in the pachinko parlor for a while and some guy had his daughter with him who clearly loves her papa. Why should he get sentimental over a father and his daughter when he's never bothered to spend time with his niece and nephew to begin with?

He's got a long way to go to prove he could change his life around and atone for what he did. While it's great that Satoko's having a hard time buying it because of her trauma, her behavior the past few episodes is suspicious and I think she's just using him as a guinea pig to test her new powers similar to how Maria fucked around with Rosa when she became a witch in attempt to get rid of the "bad" Rosa. I don't think he doesn't deserve it, mind you, I have no sympathy for him and don't mind seeing Satoko taking her anger out on him, but at the same time, the cruelty of it is much too mean-spirited for the Higurashi-verse and screws over the "murder is wrong, period, and here's the karma to prove it" message of Higurashi just for being heavily hinted at this may be turning into a Lambdadelta origin story (which still makes no sense).

I see zero reason she'd want to use this power on someone who always treated her well. I don't see how his role in understanding Hinamizawa Syndrome has anything to do with him being a good target let alone a good target from Satoko's perspective.

I agree; Teppei superficially coming to that realization isn't enough to have a redemption arc. But Teppei learning empathy and genuinely understanding how much he's hurt others is a wonderful reason to start the road towards some level of redemption. I think you're conflating redemption with complete forgiveness and a clean slate, and considering Teppei's tsundere-esque tough-guy act throughout the episode and his vow after Satoko's rejection, I'm very confident that "not dying alone" isn't even on his priority list.

Teppei does have a long way to go; that's what character redemption arcs are for.

Everyone was treating her well. That didnt stop her.

Mar 12, 2021 8:07 AM

#178

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Jul 2016

93

ssjokg said:

Everyone was treating her well. That didnt stop her.

I mean, I don't think everyone was treating her well, Teppei and now Rika being 2 primary examples, but all of that aside, I think you might be misinterpreting my comment. By "power", I meant the newly discovered ability to affect non-loopers through persisting memories across worlds, NOT the ability to live in loops.

Mar 12, 2021 8:28 AM

#179

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Rinkusan said:

ssjokg said:

Everyone was treating her well. That didnt stop her.

I mean, I don't think everyone was treating her well, Teppei and now Rika being 2 primary examples, but all of that aside, I think you might be misinterpreting my comment. By "power", I meant the newly discovered ability to affect non-loopers through persisting memories across worlds, NOT the ability to live in loops.

Yes of course Teppei, her aunt and from her pov Rika, didnt treat her well. But se was really fucked everyone else. Keichi, Mion,Rena, Shion all those that protested for her.

I dont see why Irie would be any exception especially if she knows his involvement. If Rika "deserves" he fate for being a liar then so does Irie.

Mar 12, 2021 8:52 AM

#180

brushido__

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Mar 2021

6

Just created this account after I've lurked this forum for months.

I can't understand the hating for this episode. I think it makes sense that Teppei wanted to try to change his lifestyle after seeing his horrible ways of dying. As the loops progressed, those dreams were probably becoming more and more recurring so his change was relatable.
I would like to add that it is implied that Teppei's actions have a very selfish basis in spite of everything. He wants someone to care for him, he doesn't want to die just like a dog and that makes his atonement much more believable. So I don't understand why it's not okay, would it have been better if Teppei had a sad backstory where he was actually beaten and raped in an orphanage? It would really be lazy writing
I don't know man, I just find it ok. Maybe I would have avoided the scene where he saves satoko from the thugs.

Excuse my bad english

Mar 12, 2021 8:54 AM

#181

KarnoKiraga

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Apr 2020

32

To see Teppei become a better person and uncle... my heart feels whole. This felt like a breath of fresh air.

Mar 12, 2021 9:38 AM

#182

Lil-Bird

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Apr 2013

1346

Hulio said:
For everyone who is claiming that this will continue until episode 30 and over.
There's been a change.
The "Leaked" schedules have now changed Higurashi's airing slot with "UNDECIDED"

So we'll see what's going to happen:
They pulled a major troll on us
Someone accidentally leaked the continuation
It's been delayed
There is a new season/cour but it's not even supposed to be airing right after.

Take your pick.

Trolling the audience =/= smart storytelling.

Mar 12, 2021 9:54 AM

#183

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20024

Lil-Bird said:

Hulio said:
For everyone who is claiming that this will continue until episode 30 and over.
There's been a change.
The "Leaked" schedules have now changed Higurashi's airing slot with "UNDECIDED"

So we'll see what's going to happen:
They pulled a major troll on us
Someone accidentally leaked the continuation
It's been delayed
There is a new season/cour but it's not even supposed to be airing right after.

Take your pick.

Trolling the audience =/= smart storytelling.

Why must we suffer so much over the airing schedule?

Mar 12, 2021 9:56 AM

#184

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May 2020

610

With the memory collection thing will it be Ironic if the reasom for the damashi arcs is people remembering stuff and thay raising paranoia and making them go L5.

Rena - Sees stuff and considers it a vison from Oyashirosama.

Mion - Sees a possible future where Keichii gets killed in Tokyo (or something along those lines)

And so on....

Im not betting on it, but if theu try to seriously redeem Satoko I could see Gou doing this. Since it doesnt really contradict anything.

Mar 12, 2021 10:05 AM

#185

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Jul 2016

93

ssjokg said:

Yes of course Teppei, her aunt and from her pov Rika, didnt treat her well. But se was really fucked everyone else. Keichi, Mion,Rena, Shion all those that protested for her.

I dont see why Irie would be any exception especially if she knows his involvement. If Rika "deserves" he fate for being a liar then so does Irie.

I don't quite understand your point here; I'm honestly not sure if you agree with my point that she has zero reason to use her memory manipulation ability on Irie or not, and I don't exactly understand the relevance of Keiichi and others.

Irie is not an exception. Teppei and Rika are the exceptions i.e. they are the ones who've caused trauma for Satoko and the ones Satoko most want to change.

Mar 12, 2021 10:05 AM

#186

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Chargecoulomb said:
With the memory collection thing will it be Ironic if the reasom for the damashi arcs is people remembering stuff and thay raising paranoia and making them go L5.

Rena - Sees stuff and considers it a vison from Oyashirosama.

Mion - Sees a possible future where Keichii gets killed in Tokyo (or something along those lines)

And so on....

Im not betting on it, but if theu try to seriously redeem Satoko I could see Gou doing this. Since it doesnt really contradict anything.

That may "redeem" her for Onidamshi and Watadamashi.
No recollection was at fault in Tataridamashi tho, especially at the end.

Mar 12, 2021 10:08 AM

#187

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Rinkusan said:

ssjokg said:

Yes of course Teppei, her aunt and from her pov Rika, didnt treat her well. But se was really fucked everyone else. Keichi, Mion,Rena, Shion all those that protested for her.

I dont see why Irie would be any exception especially if she knows his involvement. If Rika "deserves" he fate for being a liar then so does Irie.

I don't quite understand your point here; I'm honestly not sure if you agree with my point that she has zero reason to use her memory manipulation ability on Irie or not, and I don't exactly understand the relevance of Keiichi and others.

Irie is not an exception. Teppei and Rika are the exceptions i.e. they are the ones who've caused trauma for Satoko and the ones Satoko most want to change.

She is willing to kill and let them die so I dont see how fucking with them by using their recollections is any different.
The goal is to break Rika. It doesnt matter how she gets there.

Mar 12, 2021 10:12 AM

#188

dark-chaos

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Jan 2011

491

good episode as always

I hope this getting another season

Mar 12, 2021 10:39 AM

#189

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93

ssjokg said:

She is willing to kill and let them die so I dont see how fucking with them by using their recollections is any different.
The goal is to break Rika. It doesnt matter how she gets there.

She is willing to let them die as pawns, certainly; she's not trying to murder and torment them. I agree; the goal is to break Rika and change her mind i.e. the goal is NOT to change Irie, Keiichi, Rena, etc.

It makes sense for her to want to change her two biggest sources of trauma. It doesn't make sense for her to want to change Irie, and going back to the original comment, it's why I think making Irie a memory-manipulation target makes no sense LET ALONE Irie over Teppei.

Mar 12, 2021 10:48 AM

#190

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Rinkusan said:

ssjokg said:

She is willing to kill and let them die so I dont see how fucking with them by using their recollections is any different.
The goal is to break Rika. It doesnt matter how she gets there.

She is willing to let them die as pawns, certainly; she's not trying to murder and torment them. I agree; the goal is to break Rika and change her mind i.e. the goal is NOT to change Irie, Keiichi, Rena, etc.

It makes sense for her to want to change her two biggest sources of trauma. It doesn't make sense for her to want to change Irie, and going back to the original comment, it's why I think making Irie a memory-manipulation target makes no sense LET ALONE Irie over Teppei.

I am not talking about change. I am talking about using them, just like Teppei. And it doesnt end well for them.

Mar 12, 2021 11:01 AM

#191

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93

ssjokg said:

I am not talking about change. I am talking about using them, just like Teppei. And it doesnt end well for them.

She absolutely has been using them. I am talking about change because that's what the power I'm referring to IS. Basically, to bring it back to your comment, Satoko does NOT have a motive to "fuck with them by using their recollections" i.e. change them; quite the opposite if anything. She DOES have a motive to "fuck with" Rika and Teppei's memories though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're trying to get at is you think Satoko's clinically psychopathic to the point where she doesn't value friendships or human emotion and would put Keiichi and others through direct torture at her hands to manipulate their memories for future use in her loop battle with Rika. It's the complete opposite; she values them and Rika to an overly obsessive and possessive fault. From Satoko's perspective, they haven't abused her, but Rika and Teppei have. That's all I'm saying.

Mar 12, 2021 11:37 AM

#192

Byniavo

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May 2018

5880

bruh nice guy Teppei made me nervous af

Mar 12, 2021 11:41 AM

#193

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Rinkusan said:

ssjokg said:

I am not talking about change. I am talking about using them, just like Teppei. And it doesnt end well for them.

She absolutely has been using them. I am talking about change because that's what the power I'm referring to IS. Basically, to bring it back to your comment, Satoko does NOT have a motive to "fuck with them by using their recollections" i.e. change them; quite the opposite if anything. She DOES have a motive to "fuck with" Rika and Teppei's memories though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're trying to get at is you think Satoko's clinically psychopathic to the point where she doesn't value friendships or human emotion and would put Keiichi and others through direct torture at her hands to manipulate their memories for future use in her loop battle with Rika. It's the complete opposite; she values them and Rika to an overly obsessive and possessive fault. From Satoko's perspective, they haven't abused her, but Rika and Teppei have. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah I see all that guilt oozing from deep within her.

And seriously if you dont think Satoko is clinically psychopathic at this point I am not sure what you have been watching.

She doesnt care about the lives of others OR her own. We just saw her kill herself a bunch of times just to win a stupid card game. She bullied Rika and killed herself when that didnt do shit. She manipulated everyone's feelings just to fuck with Rika.

This isnt just an abused brat that can finally get some revenge.

Mar 12, 2021 12:01 PM

#194

Femboy_Hooters

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Mar 2016

606

Teppei here reminds me of my dad.
This episode also reminds me that a change of heart takes time and giving into the impulsivity of other's decisions can be detrimental to your wellbeing.

Lie until what you want to be true becomes truth. Lie until you can't remember what's a lie and what isn't. Lie until you aren't lying anymore!
Figures

Mar 12, 2021 12:03 PM

#195

RebelPanda

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Oct 2014

672

With Keichi remembering his murders in a past world, Satoko realized her friends retain some memories. She named Eua, the goddess who gave her the looping ability. She learns that the people closest to her are most susceptible to remembering, and so her uncle remembers being murdered time after time in previous worlds. Afterward, he realizes his life is shit and attempts to change. Returning to Hinamizawa, attempting to clean-up, and reconcile with Satako was his attempt to get better. It was quite a shock for Satoko when he attempted to save her from the drifters, but ended up getting his ass kicked. Understandably, Satoko was too traumatized by his past abuse to accept his request to have occasional visits.

This was one of the better episodes in the arc. I look forward to seeing some kind of redemption, then perhaps Satoko can let go of Rika and have a family of her own.

Mar 12, 2021 1:08 PM

#196

Eragur

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Dec 2020

61

Teppei becoming a better person and trying to have some actual wholesome family time with Satoko is something that sounds quite stupid but to my amazement they actually handled it pretty nicely.

In other circumstances I'd say that it's complete bs that someone as rotten as him would have any hopes of becoming a decent human being but his motive of having visions of living a shitty life just to die alone is actually believable. I can imagine that even the lowest sort of people would feel tortured by having such an outcome in front of their eyes constantly and do anything to change it.

What I didn't like about the episode though is how it messes with everything we know about looping. How it works and how it affects both the looper and the people close to the looper are changed drastically just to have a convenient plot device.

First we got the card game. Contrary to what a lot of people try to argue here I feel like it actually would make more sense for Satoko to actually have the ability to repeat a scene by snapping her fingers. Because the "usual" ability to kill yourself, get set back a few days/month/whatever and then wait to get back to a certain moment to change it is just far too absurd even considering someone who is on the best way to turn into a witch.

Just think about it
- Even if it's just this card game that's getting repeated it would take dozens of tries to ace the game like she did. It doesn't look like she is doing it the smart way and play a bunch of games to the end just to get the cards revealed and memorize them.
- If it's not just the card game and she gets set back a few weeks or even just a few days she'd have to live trough completely pointless days just to try and get another pair right
- What really makes this just impossible to accomplish is that if she actually doesn't only repeat the card game but gets looped back to a different point in time then it's basically impossible for her to ace this thing. It wouldn't be able to relive a loop 100% accurately and even the smalles of changes would change the order of the cards. So she'd be completely unable to memorize the positions and each loop would start with a game that's competely new to her.
- Also the different worlds change even if Satoko doesn't do aynthing differently

So are you going to tell me, that a little girl who only recently got the ability to loop and who's only goal is to keep her best friend from leaving her hometown is willing to go through the pain and suffering of killing herself and reliving meaningless days over and over again for hundreds and thousends of times just in order to proof to a meaningless friend that she could ace a card memory game? That's realistic behavior and in character for you?

She went from "I'll try to stop Rika a few times." to "I'll watch her suffer a hundred years to be able to torture her into stopping." to "I'm going to kill myself a few hundred times and waste endless time to ace a pointless card game." in like three episodes.

Not only does her development into an absolute maniac (and a witch) happen far too fast and seemingly without reason but they also ridicule Rika's hundred years of looping. It makes light of the time she was trapped inside of the loops and about her efforts to break out of her cage. The bratty Satoko just treats loops like a game and the pain of dying or the guilt of murdering doesn't phase her at all. The huge amount of wasted time doesn't concern her either. Whereas Rika felt like being stuck in a child's body and being chained to a small village is torture by itself Satoko doesn't have any problems with that. She doesn't even use each loop to get closer to her goal of keeping Rika in Hinamizawa but messes arround instead. So who cares about hundred years of looping, Satoko can easily loop thousands of times without giving a shit.

Other than that it also makes light of the "miracles" of Keiichi, Rena and Shion remembering other fragments. Now it's just something that will just happen to anyone who is related to you and it might even comletely change their character in a convenient way. Sadly Rika never had the luck of Takano turning into a housewife.

So for the sake of not making light of OG Higurashi's events I prefer to interpret it as Satoko having actual control over time due to Featherin's far stronger influence on these worlds compared to Hanyu. If she doesn't have to kill herself to loop, if she is free to decide where to loop and if she doesn't actually change worlds but simply timetravels then her behavior would actually make sense. A time traveler doesn't have to give a shit about the people arround him because their time will turn back as well as if nothing happened. Also that way we would still have the same Rika every time and Satoko wouldn't have to waste too much time and suffer through her own death every time. Though that doesn't seem to be the case.

EragurMar 12, 2021 1:22 PM

We'll be together for all eternity.

Mar 12, 2021 1:46 PM

#197

kasenom

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Dec 2014

9

Byniavo said:
bruh nice guy Teppei made me nervous af

this episode made me really nervous and uncomfortable watching it, nice guy Teppei just feels so wrong, but it had a nice end to it

Mar 12, 2021 2:56 PM

#198

Red_Ranger_Wien

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Sep 2011

2159

The uncle's story was fine in a vacuum but it just means even less time is spent trying to actually make sense of this jumbled mess of a show.

Cannot wait for next week when this finally ends.

Mar 12, 2021 3:33 PM

#199

kuwangpa

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Nov 2020

409

Teppei is an interesting character. He definitely has his flaws, but he isn't bad in the evil sense ...he simply made some bad decisions in life (though I'm wondering if his impatient/greedy/short-tempered personality was something he developed over time or if he was born like that, i.e. nature vs. nurture).

Since it's likely that Satoko was the one giving Teppei those bad dreams to make him change, I wonder if Teppei could change for the better by his own volition. The pachinko scene where he notices that little girl definitely triggered something in him, though.

Mar 12, 2021 4:03 PM

#200