New
Oct 16, 2020 11:39 PM
#1
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/former-cyberpunk-2077-developer-speaks-192734667.html Originally they said they had a meeting and agreed to only work 48 hours a week but now... Apparently they are making them work 16 hour days. Head sent an email apologizing to.... their families over it. Some have been working ot since june....2019 They had to restart the game from scratch with like a year left almost so they are finishing this in 1-2 years. Not 7(trailer release date) Check the reddit in the link and the tweets that douche bag Jason posted. I'm one to laugh at others misery but even this made me feel sorry for them... |
Oct 17, 2020 12:52 AM
#2
hey at least they sent out apologize. which is something. also do i smell a union coming for the gaming industry i think i do. |
"among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
Oct 17, 2020 8:04 AM
#4
Only_Brad said: I hope it's paid overtime. They do. They say they get paid good for it. |
Oct 17, 2020 8:37 AM
#5
This is Poland, not France, Germany or UK. Some peoples always say stuff like "heh look at Poland they don't have problem with migrants unlike the west". Well, Poland (and most eastern Europe ) workers/citizens aren't paid the same nor protected the same, so migrants aren't trying to go there, that's why they have no problems. While a crunch is a crunch, it's a crunch in Poland, not in western Europe, that's why it feels so extreme~. Also, I've heard that this time they voted the crunch with a majority approving. |
Oct 17, 2020 9:14 AM
#6
Zefyris said: This is Poland, not France, Germany or UK. Some peoples always say stuff like "heh look at Poland they don't have problem with migrants unlike the west". Well, Poland (and most eastern Europe ) workers/citizens aren't paid the same nor protected the same, so migrants aren't trying to go there, that's why they have no problems. While a crunch is a crunch, it's a crunch in Poland, not in western Europe, that's why it feels so extreme~. Also, I've heard that this time they voted the crunch with a majority approving. No? Poland Greece Hungary refused the refugees and the EU was trying to punish them for it. I posted articles on other threads about that. LOL you really think refugees are gonna cry that they have to work more and then say they would rather stay in one of their own countries that were blown to the stone age? |
Oct 17, 2020 9:15 AM
#7
Kayle_x_Morgana said: Zefyris said: This is Poland, not France, Germany or UK. Some peoples always say stuff like "heh look at Poland they don't have problem with migrants unlike the west". Well, Poland (and most eastern Europe ) workers/citizens aren't paid the same nor protected the same, so migrants aren't trying to go there, that's why they have no problems. While a crunch is a crunch, it's a crunch in Poland, not in western Europe, that's why it feels so extreme~. Also, I've heard that this time they voted the crunch with a majority approving. No? Poland Greece Hungary refused the refugees and the EU was trying to punish them for it. I posted articles on other threads about that. LOL you really think refugees are gonna cry that they have to work more and then say they would rather stay in one of their own countries that were blown to the stone age? "refusing refugees" is not hard when the refugees don't go your way to begin with. it's a bit harder when they come in mass by all available roads and stuff don't you think. |
Oct 17, 2020 11:21 AM
#8
Wow, that sounds awful but hey, free "DLC" and Keanu good! Based CDPR for saving the game industry. Like..I am not surprised that they haven't been steadily working on it for 7 years, especially with Witcher 3 coming out, but if that restart is true, then fucking yikes. If they fuck this up, their stock prices are going down in flames. |
Oct 17, 2020 4:25 PM
#9
Let 'em crunch until the cows come home. As long as the end result is a high quality product and the employees are financially compensated for all their extra work, I see zero issue whatsoever. |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Oct 20, 2020 3:58 AM
#11
always the same shit. Middle managment fails by planning incorrectly and the workers have to pay for it. Bad company. |
"my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
Oct 20, 2020 4:49 AM
#12
It's Poland, anyone who lives in Europe know they are famous for their shit work culture that gets exploited by western more rich countries. |
Oct 20, 2020 11:18 AM
#13
I don't know any of this Gaymer jargon but looks like in every industry, people get fucked over by the brutal hand of Capitali$m. Remember folks, money is indeed EVERYTHING on this planet, but money is also evil. |
Oct 20, 2020 11:42 AM
#14
-II said: Wow, that sounds awful but hey, free "DLC" and Keanu good! Based CDPR for saving the game industry. Like..I am not surprised that they haven't been steadily working on it for 7 years, especially with Witcher 3 coming out, but if that restart is true, then fucking yikes. If they fuck this up, their stock prices are going down in flames. the restart is true but thats old news. they had to restart at least once to remove the buggy mess of a parkour system |
"among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
Oct 20, 2020 1:39 PM
#15
Just going to point it out but a "restart" in programming doesn't mean that you start coding the app back from zero. In object most of your code is organized so that it's either completely or almost completely independent of the technology used outside of said class, so even if you were to change the whole graphic engine, most of the code would NOT change. At worse the new engine runs on a different language/framework so you'll need to re-write a similar code, but that's 10 times faster than writing code from zero as the logic and organization is already known and tested from the previous iteration. Furthermore, there's no obligation to run with only one language either. Even if they had a major "reboot" one year ago, no, they did NOT redo the game from zero. It goes without saying that all the assets ( textures, motion capture, animation, 3D modelling, voice acting, music, written dialogues and quests...) are already done, but so is the Analysis and conception phase, mostly, and so is most of the code logic, the DB architecture and relation,and so on. It doesn't change the fact that they had to cram way too much hours into each week so the crunch looks freaking bad tbh, but even with so many hours they wouldn't have been able to "redo " the game. What happened is that on top of what they still had to do on schedule they had all of the "redo" part to put each week, which leads to massive overtime and still delay afterwards. |
Oct 20, 2020 1:41 PM
#16
Crunch has proven to be very ineffective and it is a result of poor management and unrealistic deadlines. |
Oct 20, 2020 1:45 PM
#17
ah labor exploitation thats capitalism at its finest not talking about the pay here but the overworking |
Oct 21, 2020 8:14 AM
#18
Bernrika said: It's Poland, anyone who lives in Europe know they are famous for their shit work culture that gets exploited by western more rich countries. Poland in no way gets exploited by Western countries. This oppression narrative about the West is pathetic. It is up to Poland to build up its institutions, just like the West did. However that is unlikely due to the lack of individualism in Eastern Europe. Countries with high levels of individualism have strong levels of trust in social institutions, which is why Western countries never went Communist, because the government and corporations weren't anywhere as corrupt as Eastern Europe. All people in the West have to do is campaign for better working conditions, and they get those improved working conditions, that doesn't happen in Poland, because in that country the commitment to improved working conditions is incredibly hollow. TL;DR Stop blaming the West, for other countries problems. |
Oct 25, 2020 9:18 AM
#19
While I really enjoyed a lot playing the Witcher series and I liked CDPR's policy with DLCs for the Witcher 3, I'm always laughing at both people who lack the knowledge about how this industry works and those blinded by fanboyism. First if all, crunches are not something uncommon. They happen, that's a part of this industry's nature and it's up to the creators whether they accept the offer of working more due to crunch happening and the details of this offer (amount of extra hours, payment, etc.). Second thing, no - CDPR crunch is not better than crunch in other companies, nor it is not like it's worse or something. It's neutral as for it's a part of this industry. The details can tell more about whether the bonuses for working more because of the crunch are worth of working more, but a crunch alone is not something extraordinary. @RunescapeIsGreat, low quality bait. Trust me, if the Western countries were conquered by a totalitarian (here: communism) regime led by a superpower (here: the USSR), they would submit to it as well. |
AdnashOct 25, 2020 9:23 AM
Oct 25, 2020 10:39 AM
#20
Adnash93 said: While I really enjoyed a lot playing the Witcher series and I liked CDPR's policy with DLCs for the Witcher 3, I'm always laughing at both people who lack the knowledge about how this industry works and those blinded by fanboyism. First if all, crunches are not something uncommon. They happen, that's a part of this industry's nature and it's up to the creators whether they accept the offer of working more due to crunch happening and the details of this offer (amount of extra hours, payment, etc.). Second thing, no - CDPR crunch is not better than crunch in other companies, nor it is not like it's worse or something. It's neutral as for it's a part of this industry. The details can tell more about whether the bonuses for working more because of the crunch are worth of working more, but a crunch alone is not something extraordinary. @RunescapeIsGreat, low quality bait. Trust me, if the Western countries were conquered by a totalitarian (here: communism) regime led by a superpower (here: the USSR), they would submit to it as well. Poland was an autocratic, authoritarian and militarist country prior to Communism. Lack of strong institutions has been a problem in Eastern Europe for centuries. deleted quote removed |
CareBearNov 5, 2020 12:58 AM
Oct 25, 2020 3:10 PM
#21
An anonymous Reddit poster who identified themselves as a former CD Projekt Red developer described... Article disregarded. Regulation of overtime working According the Polish Labour Law, you are not allowed to work more than 8 hours extra hours per week and a maximum of 150 hours overtime per year. https://www.agriworker.eu/en/polska/payment-menu/overtime That's a little over an hour a day, complete non-issue. |
GogettersOct 25, 2020 3:13 PM
Oct 26, 2020 12:17 PM
#22
RunescapeIsGreat said: Poland was an autocratic, authoritarian and militarist country prior to Communism. Lack of strong institutions has been a problem in Eastern Europe for centuries. Another low quality bait. Many countries before World War II chose the authoritarian way after the disappointment coming from inefficient democracy in post-World War I world, not only countries from the Eastern Europe. Countries like Spain and Italy were lucky enough to not be conquered by the USSR or be affected directly by its ideology (indirect contact was present though and took form of informal political groups, official parties, economical agreements with the Eastern Block etc.). And yet they were also authoritarian, mostly nationalistic and militarian Spain that remained like that until the year 1975 more or less. Countries like Poland or Lithuania have been either conquered or completely annexed by the USSR, so degradation of so called "Western standards" was without any doubts stronger, especially in the annexed countries like Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia. And the last example: Germany. If you are right about the Eastern Europe and the countries belonging to it being weak in terms of their institutions etc., then why East Germany fell under communism after being conquered and we see the damage caused by the communism's reign to this day? According to what you have just said it should have not happened with Germany belonging to the West with one of the best (if not the best) administration (because of its efficiency) and mature society conscious about their rights and caring about both their country and regions they were living in? Just please, don't say something like "they failed because they East", lol. No offense mate, but you seem to be just hating on the former Eastern Block, treating people living there as savages on my because due to its history and many other factors this huge region differs from the West. That's really chauvinistic. While Western standards are really complex and fair, you cannot say that those who are not exactly going with those standards are bad or dunno, undeveloped politically. It's highly unfair in its rudeness and simplification of factors that you did not include in your thoughts, purposely or not. |
AdnashOct 26, 2020 12:27 PM
Oct 26, 2020 12:51 PM
#23
"Poland was an autocratic, authoritarian and militarist country prior to Communism." Poland wasn't even existing right before communism. |
Oct 26, 2020 3:30 PM
#24
Adnash93 said: RunescapeIsGreat said: Poland was an autocratic, authoritarian and militarist country prior to Communism. Lack of strong institutions has been a problem in Eastern Europe for centuries. Another low quality bait. Many countries before World War II chose the authoritarian way after the disappointment coming from inefficient democracy in post-World War I world, not only countries from the Eastern Europe. Countries like Spain and Italy were lucky enough to not be conquered by the USSR or be affected directly by its ideology (indirect contact was present though and took form of informal political groups, official parties, economical agreements with the Eastern Block etc.). And yet they were also authoritarian, mostly nationalistic and militarian Spain that remained like that until the year 1975 more or less. Countries like Poland or Lithuania have been either conquered or completely annexed by the USSR, so degradation of so called "Western standards" was without any doubts stronger, especially in the annexed countries like Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia. And the last example: Germany. If you are right about the Eastern Europe and the countries belonging to it being weak in terms of their institutions etc., then why East Germany fell under communism after being conquered and we see the damage caused by the communism's reign to this day? According to what you have just said it should have not happened with Germany belonging to the West with one of the best (if not the best) administration (because of its efficiency) and mature society conscious about their rights and caring about both their country and regions they were living in? Just please, don't say something like "they failed because they East", lol. No offense mate, but you seem to be just hating on the former Eastern Block, treating people living there as savages on my because due to its history and many other factors this huge region differs from the West. That's really chauvinistic. While Western standards are really complex and fair, you cannot say that those who are not exactly going with those standards are bad or dunno, undeveloped politically. It's highly unfair in its rudeness and simplification of factors that you did not include in your thoughts, purposely or not. It is well known fact that Southern, Eastern and even Central Europe was not that Democratic and liberal before the Great War. The Second Polish Republic were authoritarian, repressive and undemocratic. Eastern Germany was certainly made poorer due to Communism, however the region does have strong institutions and perhaps better institutions and social cohesion than West Germany. The region does have a growing identity, however that is due to the German government's negligence and lack of representation for East Germany. I don't look down upon Eastern Europe's political system, I merely just see it as different, and the effects of it's system is going to lead to different results than the Western system. Zefyris said: "Poland was an autocratic, authoritarian and militarist country prior to Communism." Poland wasn't even existing right before communism. Congress of Poland and the Second Polish Republic existed before Poland was conquered by the Soviets. Deleted quote removed |
CareBearNov 5, 2020 12:59 AM
Oct 26, 2020 11:25 PM
#25
RunescapeIsGreat said: Zefyris said: "Poland was an autocratic, authoritarian and militarist country prior to Communism." Poland wasn't even existing right before communism. Congress of Poland and the Second Polish Republic existed before Poland was conquered by the Soviets. That's forgetting that when they FULLY conquered Poland , right before that Poland was fully in control of the nazis for 3 years. And before that only half of Poland was in the hand of the USSR (and as conquered territory, not as a communist state). Poland only became a communist state AFTER the war, and during the war it was not existing as an independent state at all. In the last 230 ish years, the number of years Poland has been independent is small (not even 1/4th of that time), and most of them are from 90 to today. |
Oct 27, 2020 10:04 AM
#26
Oct 27, 2020 10:45 AM
#27
Aye, my manager took a week off for the game's release, I think he's going to be heavily disappointed with that news. |
Oct 27, 2020 12:45 PM
#28
I guess they're gonna delay the game yet again and release it next year instead of in December 2020. |
Oct 27, 2020 1:45 PM
#29
Zefyris said: Aye, my manager took a week off for the game's release, I think he's going to be heavily disappointed with that news. I'm not quite sure how this game managed to get so hyped up, the last time i remember this happening was with fallout 4 and that's a few years ago now. I guess Witcher 3 really was popular, though i think although it was popular at launch a lot of the popularity came once the dlcs were out and the netflix series was announced. I think Cyberpunk 2077 does look decent, though it doesn't seem be doing anything exactly unseen in gaming, Deus Ex did a similar setting and the recent reboots (Human Revolution, Mankind Divided) seemed successful enough. I doubt my current pc could actually run it decently though. |
Objectivity? In my anime scoring? Of course not... |
Oct 27, 2020 4:20 PM
#30
@Zefyris, just leave that troll alone. He doesn't know history and wants to convince others to his wishful thinking. Basically @RunescapeIsGreat proved that he is biased towards Eastern Europe and will find any example to confirm highlights, even if the confirmation is either fictional or unrelated to the topic. Just one thing I wanted to add to your post: Poland did exist during World War II. Its territories were under III Reich's and the USSR's occupation, but Poland still existed as a country. It had its government fully recognised and functioning efficiently in exile (I mean, it functioned as efficiently as it was possible back then). |
Oct 27, 2020 7:18 PM
#31
Adnash93 said: @Zefyris, just leave that troll alone. He doesn't know history and wants to convince others to his wishful thinking. Basically @RunescapeIsGreat proved that he is biased towards Eastern Europe and will find any example to confirm highlights, even if the confirmation is either fictional or unrelated to the topic. Just one thing I wanted to add to your post: Poland did exist during World War II. Its territories were under III Reich's and the USSR's occupation, but Poland still existed as a country. It had its government fully recognised and functioning efficiently in exile (I mean, it functioned as efficiently as it was possible back then). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Polish_Republic "After he took power by a military coup in May 1926,... The following three parliamentary elections (in 1930, 1935 and 1938) were manipulated, with opposition activists sent to Bereza Kartuska prison (see also Brest trials). As a result, pro-government party Camp of National Unity won huge majorities in them. Piłsudski died just after an authoritarian constitution was approved in the spring of 1935." The absurdity of calling someone a troll for explaining that a country's faults (such as lack of worker rights, isn't that something Communism should have instilled in the country) are caused by that country's repressive, autocratic and authoritarian policies. And the only reason I was talking about Poland and Eastern Europe's institutions and Democracy was because a person was blaming the West for Poland's lack of worker rights. And just to prove I am not biased, Congress Poland did have a tradition of Golden Liberty, that was somewhat Democratic. Aboar said: Zefyris said: Aye, my manager took a week off for the game's release, I think he's going to be heavily disappointed with that news. I'm not quite sure how this game managed to get so hyped up, the last time i remember this happening was with fallout 4 and that's a few years ago now. I guess Witcher 3 really was popular, though i think although it was popular at launch a lot of the popularity came once the dlcs were out and the netflix series was announced. I think Cyberpunk 2077 does look decent, though it doesn't seem be doing anything exactly unseen in gaming, Deus Ex did a similar setting and the recent reboots (Human Revolution, Mankind Divided) seemed successful enough. I doubt my current pc could actually run it decently though. I agree that the hype for Cyberpunk 2077 came out of nowhere, and that the game doesn't seem to be doing anything new, Deus Ex Mankind Divided came out in 2016, (the game was utterly amazing, I spent weeks playing the game in my living room all night, and then fall asleep just to wake up and continue playing the game) and while the game was short, it was a massive improvement on the last entry in the series. Is Cyberpunk 2077 soundtrack gonna beat even this Deus Ex song? lol |
RuneRemOct 27, 2020 7:48 PM
Oct 30, 2020 12:38 AM
#32
it got worse lol https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1321857302115151873 |
Oct 30, 2020 9:39 AM
#33
I hate Jason so much. He used to work at shitaku to. he complained there a Japanese artist for a weeb game made the art to sexy. Pos. He also blocked me. What a pussy |
Oct 31, 2020 7:44 AM
#34
RunescapeIsGreat said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Polish_Republic "After he took power by a military coup in May 1926,... The following three parliamentary elections (in 1930, 1935 and 1938) were manipulated, with opposition activists sent to Bereza Kartuska prison (see also Brest trials). As a result, pro-government party Camp of National Unity won huge majorities in them. Piłsudski died just after an authoritarian constitution was approved in the spring of 1935." While I like Wikipedia for what it does in terms of offering a lot of knowledge for free, it doesn't mean it's without flaws. This article is not bad and says truth, but it simplified it for the sake of encyclopedic style, which maybe provides you basic info on certain topics, but when you dig further and learn some more details then you see that those certain topics might also be seen differently. Dictatorship in Poland in the years 1926-1930 is often described in professional literature as strange, because even after a successful coup d'etat performed by Piłsudski and his supporters they did not force or even "convince by force" (or at least not fully) legal government to submit, but the legal government along with the parliament agreed to hand over power to not let a civil war emerage, especially after just several years of peace (troops of loyalists were already ready to aid Warsaw and they were waiting for official orders; they also refused to go rogue and stop Piłsudski without orders). The real dictatorship was in the years 1930-1939, but it still doesn't have logically anything to do with what you were talking about. As I said, the times were different and judging countries back then by today's standards is unwise. Going further with your bizarre logic (or rather lack of it), Germany should have been also weak in terms of administration etc. because in its evolution from Prussia (times before the unification of Germany) up until 1918 (the fall of II Reich) the most important aspects of this country that did not change over the years was militarism, absolutism and in the last years of the Empire authoritarian rule due to World War I. Yet Germany is one of the most successfull countries in the world. I know It is a dumb comparison simplified to the extremes (like not mentioning the whole history of Germany), but I can't help it, since you demand to go with that kind of weird standards. RunescapeIsGreat said: The absurdity of calling someone a troll for explaining that a country's faults (such as lack of worker rights, isn't that something Communism should have instilled in the country) are caused by that country's repressive, autocratic and authoritarian policies. And the only reason I was talking about Poland and Eastern Europe's institutions and Democracy was because a person was blaming the West for Poland's lack of worker rights. Yeah, I noticed, but you used really cheap and old slogans used by the people who hate Eastern Europe. Similar words came from mouths of national socialism's supporters, but I guess you have no problem with it, since they were mostly Western (so superior compared to the East), eh? I might be wrong, but the things you wrote sounded like that - saying that X is better than Y, because Y is not X. With that kind of words, the discussion about the West and Polish workers rights became bland and turned into a rant on how the East in general is way worse than the West because of imaginary arguments you presented. How is that not a reason to thin that someone is trolling? You basically answer each post with the same phrase about "repressive, autocratic and authoritarian policies" blah blah repeated over and over again like a mantra of some sort. Just for you to know, workers rights were a thing in socialism, not in communism that treated workers like tools and models for propaganda posters about how prosperity and equality is in a country. Several years go communism, even if it was succeeded by socialism after 1956, were enough to demolish a lot of things in country's condition as a whole and in society's mentality. RunescapeIsGreat said: And just to prove I am not biased, Congress Poland did have a tradition of Golden Liberty, that was somewhat Democratic. And now you proved that it's pointless to discuss with you about history, since you don't know it, at least Polish history. No, Congress Poland did not have any traditions of Golden Liberty. You mistook it for Poland from 16th to 18th century. Kingdom of Poland after Vienna Congress, however liberal compared to most of European countries, did not have Golden Liberty. What's more, you proved once again that you are based. Golden Liberty was not "somehow democratic", it was revolutionary back then. Countries such as the United Kingdom, which is often described as one fo the first democratic modern states, couldn't achieve the percentage of people allowed to vote as high as the Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania had even years after Poland-Lithuania was erased from the map. EOT from me. No more to add and no need to continue this discussion, especially when you treat guesses and your own imagination as real things. |
Oct 31, 2020 6:54 PM
#35
Adnash93 said: RunescapeIsGreat said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Polish_Republic "After he took power by a military coup in May 1926,... The following three parliamentary elections (in 1930, 1935 and 1938) were manipulated, with opposition activists sent to Bereza Kartuska prison (see also Brest trials). As a result, pro-government party Camp of National Unity won huge majorities in them. Piłsudski died just after an authoritarian constitution was approved in the spring of 1935." While I like Wikipedia for what it does in terms of offering a lot of knowledge for free, it doesn't mean it's without flaws. This article is not bad and says truth, but it simplified it for the sake of encyclopedic style, which maybe provides you basic info on certain topics, but when you dig further and learn some more details then you see that those certain topics might also be seen differently. Dictatorship in Poland in the years 1926-1930 is often described in professional literature as strange, because even after a successful coup d'etat performed by Piłsudski and his supporters they did not force or even "convince by force" (or at least not fully) legal government to submit, but the legal government along with the parliament agreed to hand over power to not let a civil war emerage, especially after just several years of peace (troops of loyalists were already ready to aid Warsaw and they were waiting for official orders; they also refused to go rogue and stop Piłsudski without orders). The real dictatorship was in the years 1930-1939, but it still doesn't have logically anything to do with what you were talking about. As I said, the times were different and judging countries back then by today's standards is unwise. Going further with your bizarre logic (or rather lack of it), Germany should have been also weak in terms of administration etc. because in its evolution from Prussia (times before the unification of Germany) up until 1918 (the fall of II Reich) the most important aspects of this country that did not change over the years was militarism, absolutism and in the last years of the Empire authoritarian rule due to World War I. Yet Germany is one of the most successfull countries in the world. I know It is a dumb comparison simplified to the extremes (like not mentioning the whole history of Germany), but I can't help it, since you demand to go with that kind of weird standards. RunescapeIsGreat said: The absurdity of calling someone a troll for explaining that a country's faults (such as lack of worker rights, isn't that something Communism should have instilled in the country) are caused by that country's repressive, autocratic and authoritarian policies. And the only reason I was talking about Poland and Eastern Europe's institutions and Democracy was because a person was blaming the West for Poland's lack of worker rights. Yeah, I noticed, but you used really cheap and old slogans used by the people who hate Eastern Europe. Similar words came from mouths of national socialism's supporters, but I guess you have no problem with it, since they were mostly Western (so superior compared to the East), eh? I might be wrong, but the things you wrote sounded like that - saying that X is better than Y, because Y is not X. With that kind of words, the discussion about the West and Polish workers rights became bland and turned into a rant on how the East in general is way worse than the West because of imaginary arguments you presented. How is that not a reason to thin that someone is trolling? You basically answer each post with the same phrase about "repressive, autocratic and authoritarian policies" blah blah repeated over and over again like a mantra of some sort. Just for you to know, workers rights were a thing in socialism, not in communism that treated workers like tools and models for propaganda posters about how prosperity and equality is in a country. Several years go communism, even if it was succeeded by socialism after 1956, were enough to demolish a lot of things in country's condition as a whole and in society's mentality. RunescapeIsGreat said: And just to prove I am not biased, Congress Poland did have a tradition of Golden Liberty, that was somewhat Democratic. And now you proved that it's pointless to discuss with you about history, since you don't know it, at least Polish history. No, Congress Poland did not have any traditions of Golden Liberty. You mistook it for Poland from 16th to 18th century. Kingdom of Poland after Vienna Congress, however liberal compared to most of European countries, did not have Golden Liberty. What's more, you proved once again that you are based. Golden Liberty was not "somehow democratic", it was revolutionary back then. Countries such as the United Kingdom, which is often described as one fo the first democratic modern states, couldn't achieve the percentage of people allowed to vote as high as the Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania had even years after Poland-Lithuania was erased from the map. EOT from me. No more to add and no need to continue this discussion, especially when you treat guesses and your own imagination as real things. "The real dictatorship was in the years 1930-1939, but it still doesn't have logically anything to do with what you were talking about. As I said, the times were different and judging countries back then by today's standards is unwise." Well the fact that Poland became autocratic proves the country didn't have a strong support of Democracy. And if Colonial states, such as Canada are Democratic, proves that Democracy was the standard back then. "Going further with your bizarre logic (or rather lack of it), Germany should have been also weak in terms of administration etc. because in its evolution from Prussia (times before the unification of Germany) up until 1918 (the fall of II Reich) the most important aspects of this country that did not change over the years was militarism, absolutism and in the last years of the Empire authoritarian rule due to World War I. Yet Germany is one of the most successful countries in the world." Imperial Germany was a Confederation, meaning states and the imperial state had different levels of suffrage, Prussia was very undemocratic, as it had the three-class franchise. So a reason why modern Germany is democratic and has strong institutions was because it was made up of the non-Prussian states. "Yeah, I noticed, but you used really cheap and old slogans used by the people who hate Eastern Europe. With that kind of words, the discussion about the West and Polish workers rights became bland and turned into a rant on how the East in general is way worse than the West because of imaginary arguments you presented." The political system a country has will affect the society, which explains the lack of worker rights. Describing that country's political system is not hating on the Country. "And now you proved that it's pointless to discuss with you about history, since you don't know it, at least Polish history. No, Congress Poland did not have any traditions of Golden Liberty. You mistook it for Poland from 16th to 18th century. Kingdom of Poland after Vienna Congress, however liberal compared to most of European countries, did not have Golden Liberty. What's more, you proved once again that you are based. Golden Liberty was not "somehow democratic", it was revolutionary back then. Countries such as the United Kingdom, which is often described as one fo the first democratic modern states, couldn't achieve the percentage of people allowed to vote as high as the Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania had even years after Poland-Lithuania was erased from the map." Well Golden Liberty was just an oligarchy. |
More topics from this board
Sticky: » The Current Events Board Will Be Closed on Friday JST ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - Aug 2, 2021 |
272 |
by traed
»»
Aug 5, 2021 5:56 PM |
|
» Third shot of Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine offers big increase in antibody levels: study ( 1 2 )Desolated - Jul 30, 2021 |
50 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:24 PM |
|
» Western vaccine producers engage in shameless profiteering while poorer countries are supplied mainly by China.Desolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
1 |
by Bourmegar
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:23 PM |
|
» NLRB officer says Amazon violated US labor lawDesolated - Aug 3, 2021 |
17 |
by kitsune0
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:41 PM |
|
» China Backs Cuba in Saying US Should Apply Sanctions To ItselfDesolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
10 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:36 PM |