Wandering Witch: The Journey of Elaina (light novel)
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| First chapter: Ow, Elaina seems really pure and sweet, this will be a calm series. Third chapter: Killed a guard and witnessed a possible murder I definitivelly never expected this. So the series will literally portray life with its good and bad points. Not only ingenious, but amazing. I found it really strange when Elaina showed no help to that poor guy, maybe he had no cure already. Still I know she is not nearly close to be a bad person. Also poor Emil guy, but in some point I knew that could happen before it was explained. 4/5 episode. Low-paced but nice story. Just regretting that even she didn´t want to attack anyone, she never knew what would happen and she remembered her mum saying she should stay away from danger and that she is not a heroine to save everyone, they made her especially cold in that part. Understandable that she ran away, but without a pixel of pity or sadness? Strange... |
KingShuloxOct 19, 2020 10:46 AM
| Buenos Aires, Argentina Check my latest web novel on Our Greatest Comeback🦊⛩️ and please drop a like or comment if you liked it! |
ibraheem234 said: this episode was really something... quite a depressing episode..I thought elaina would change something...but like she mentioned she is only a traveller and not a character that can change people lives... Oh she can change people's lives. Destroy someone's house with a swing of her wand. Now they're homeless. Then fly away. There is no established law that prevents her from doing that in that world. Actually, now that i think about it the world building is terrible. |
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Alpha_Druid said: Because plot convenience takes you out of the story and is generally bad writing. There should be a natural flow to the events. Poor attempt at delivering the message is because of the blatant plot convenience. I think there's a distinction between what you refer to as plot convenience and supernatural or unexplained asspulls. It seemed from the way you phrased it, anything that drives a plot is "plot convenience". For example it's not unusual to say "hi" to someone going through a field if that's the only person you see. Sure it drove a plot but then technically any interaction drives a plot. It's also not unusual for her to remember the ending to a tale as soon as she left because after seeing the slave's reaction may have triggered some reaction in her to think longer about the tale she read. Moreover, the second point wasn't even to drive a plot; it didn't further the story in any way. It was solely meant to give an impactful message to the reader. When I think of plot convenience, it'd be more like unexplained plot armor that makes the story unbelievable. Like Luffy going 2nd gear for the first time and suddenly putting the beat down on his opponents because he ate some meat for example, when prior he couldn't dream of achieving such a feat. |
Opticflash said: hazarddex said: the problem with Eaina for me isn't that she didn't help them, but that she flat as fk in terms of characters development and this flatness hasn't improved. Questions: 1. What counts as a "simple" character versus "complex" character? Does hearing internal monologue about how a character views their reality = "complex" character, and no monoloque = "simple" character? 2. Why do you insist that a character needs to undergo some change, a.k.a. "character development"? Does "Oh I learned to better myself and do this instead of that" = good anime? ------------------------- Mod Note: Removed response to deleted post 1. Because that's what humans do when presented with a situation. They think. They mull over it. And thinking is shown through monologue. The only monologue shown here is the narcissistic ramblings in each episode. 2. Character development is not necessarily the change. It is establishing a personality in the first place. Delving into the psyche of a character. Showing why a character behaves a certain way. We only k Opticflash said: hazarddex said: the problem with Eaina for me isn't that she didn't help them, but that she flat as fk in terms of characters development and this flatness hasn't improved. Questions: 1. What counts as a "simple" character versus "complex" character? Does hearing internal monologue about how a character views their reality = "complex" character, and no monoloque = "simple" character? 2. Why do you insist that a character needs to undergo some change, a.k.a. "character development"? Does "Oh I learned to better myself and do this instead of that" = good anime? ------------------------- Mod Note: Removed response to deleted post 1. Because real people think when presented with a situation. People think so that they can resolve the situation. Thinking is shown through internal monologue. The only monologue here is the narcissistic ramblings each episode. 2. Character development isn't just about change. It is first establishing a personality for a character. How do they behave in a given situation. What action do they take and why do they take that specific action? What you mentioned is character growth or progression. It is a generally good thing because real people change. I know I did. This can also be achieved self-reflection which requires thinking. Opticflash said: Alpha_Druid said: Because plot convenience takes you out of the story and is generally bad writing. There should be a natural flow to the events. Poor attempt at delivering the message is because of the blatant plot convenience. I think there's a distinction between what you refer to as plot convenience and supernatural or unexplained asspulls. It seemed from the way you phrased it, anything that drives a plot is "plot convenience". For example it's not unusual to say "hi" to someone going through a field if that's the only person you see. Sure it drove a plot but then technically any interaction drives a plot. It's also not unusual for her to remember the ending to a tale as soon as she left because after seeing the slave's reaction may have triggered some reaction in her to think longer about the tale she read. Moreover, the second point wasn't even to drive a plot; it didn't further the story in any way. It was solely meant to give an impactful message to the reader. When I think of plot convenience, it'd be more like unexplained plot armor that makes the story unbelievable. Like Luffy going 2nd gear for the first time and suddenly putting the beat down on his opponents because he ate some meat for example, when prior he couldn't dream of achieving such a feat. The first example is of plot contrivance. Do you see random strangers calling each other out in real life? Would you so it? If so, why? Just to say hi? Lol. The point is there are better ways they could've met but a contrived scene it is. Plot convenience is just having the right thing in the right place, like when our mc has conveniently read about a really similar event in a book and how she conveniently forgot about the ending specifically. And how she remembered the ending at just the right time(when nothing could be done) just so can we have a message. I think that's pretty convenient. A little bit of convenience doesn't harm but this much? Also, plot armor, plot contrivance, asspulls and plot convenience are all clearly different concepts if the different names didn't make it clear. Plot armor is the character not dying in situations where they clearly should. Because we know there would be no story if the main character died. Asspulls is getting inexplicable powerups. Luffy didn't get gear 2nd by eating meat. Lol. Did we even watch the same anime? He goes gear 2nd when he pumps more blood through his veins. His body can handle this since he's made of rubber. He put the beatdown on the enemy because he was faster and stronger due to more blood pumping through this body. Also, iirc he mentioned he prepared offscreen for this and didn't just come up with it on the spot. He never had to get stronger before because he was always stronger than his enemies upto that point. Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button. |
Koito91Oct 19, 2020 12:46 PM
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| Haha, I like this little tonal shift early on in the anime, also an MC with actual personality is great too. Mod Edit: Removed baiting. |
anime-primeOct 20, 2020 1:58 PM
| Funny thing is that many of you state that Elaina didn't give a shit about these people and went happily towards the next adventure. I'm not sure if we saw a different show or one of us was on drugs, but I could clearly see that Elaina wasn't happy and neither indifferent in both stories. The mood, atmosphere, coloring, expression...all these things told me otherwise. Maybe "show, don't tell" doesn't work for you guys or I'm reading too deep into things. And it's amusing how you complain about her moving on. In that case, I hope you feel remorse for not being able to help so many people whether you know them or not. I hope you will feel shitty about this fact for your whole life. I mean, c'mon, if you don't learn to move on, how do you expect to live a fulfilling life? I know, they could have avoided all of this if they added her some kind of internal monologue. But they didn't. I guess they only want people who understand the point of these stories to continue watching. |
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Kahirama said: Funny thing is that many of you state that Elaina didn't give a shit about these people and went happily towards the next adventure. I'm not sure if we saw a different show or one of us was on drugs, but I could clearly see that Elaina wasn't happy and neither indifferent in both stories. The mood, atmosphere, coloring, expression...all these things told me otherwise. Maybe "show, don't tell" doesn't work for you guys or I'm reading too deep into things. And it's amusing how you complain about her moving on. In that case, I hope you feel remorse for not being able to help so many people whether you know them or not. I hope you will feel shitty about this fact for your whole life. I mean, c'mon, if you don't learn to move on, how do you expect to live a fulfilling life? I know, they could have avoided all of this if they added her some kind of internal monologue. But they didn't. I guess they only want people who understand the point of these stories to continue watching. Most of us aren't super powerful witches who can help, but choose not to though. Take Kino. She wasn't a saint, but she at least operated her own rules of morality, so even when she did things the reader/audience didn't agree with, we could understand why. With Elaina, she's just as passive as Kino could be but why is that? Is it because of what her mom told her? Some Prime Directive that binds witches? Does she want to avoid trouble with the law? Who knows, the show certainly doesn't tell us, nor does it show us either, so when combined with her rampant ego the only conclusion is that she simply doesn't care. There's no inherent problem with this approach, except that she's hardly non-involved i this episode. She clearly made the situation worse both times but she blatantly ignores it, out of a desire to avoid owning up to her mistakes. Even Kino at least tried to fix problems she caused. |
| A darkser episode than I expected from this show which seemed to be all lovely colorful shining positive. A few points that disturbed me : the country knows the flower fields is dangerous for anyone but witches. However they never asked any magician to get rid of it : why ? Second weird point happened when Elaina saw the guard being swallowed by plants while turning crazy : she didn't have any reaction, like no disgust, no horror, just nothing. Anyone should be reacting somehow watching that yet she just left. Lastly, her lack of reaction about the second part in the village chief's house. I didn't expect her to rescue Nino (actually she probably has enough food to sustain as well as a bed in a house) but didn't mention or claimed her treatment wasn't appropriated. As again she turned a blind eye and left, even indicating she doesn't want to learn what happens next. Well perhaps this show will also have its dark sides. |
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Anti-Agelast said: Kahirama said: Funny thing is that many of you state that Elaina didn't give a shit about these people and went happily towards the next adventure. I'm not sure if we saw a different show or one of us was on drugs, but I could clearly see that Elaina wasn't happy and neither indifferent in both stories. The mood, atmosphere, coloring, expression...all these things told me otherwise. Maybe "show, don't tell" doesn't work for you guys or I'm reading too deep into things. And it's amusing how you complain about her moving on. In that case, I hope you feel remorse for not being able to help so many people whether you know them or not. I hope you will feel shitty about this fact for your whole life. I mean, c'mon, if you don't learn to move on, how do you expect to live a fulfilling life? I know, they could have avoided all of this if they added her some kind of internal monologue. But they didn't. I guess they only want people who understand the point of these stories to continue watching. Most of us aren't super powerful witches who can help, but choose not to though. Take Kino. She wasn't a saint, but she at least operated her own rules of morality, so even when she did things the reader/audience didn't agree with, we could understand why. With Elaina, she's just as passive as Kino could be but why is that? Is it because of what her mom told her? Some Prime Directive that binds witches? Does she want to avoid trouble with the law? Who knows, the show certainly doesn't tell us, nor does it show us either, so when combined with her rampant ego the only conclusion is that she simply doesn't care. There's no inherent problem with this approach, except that she's hardly non-involved i this episode. She clearly made the situation worse both times but she blatantly ignores it, out of a desire to avoid owning up to her mistakes. Even Kino at least tried to fix problems she caused. But I don't see any problem she caused. In the slave girl story, it's quite clear. And in the flower story, yes, she brought the flowers there. But she wasn't the one who threw the flowers in the fire. The brother went to his sister on his own accord. As for why she didn't go back to the girl, it was already late night when she heard the flowers are poisonous and that the people will become food for the plants. So it was already too late to do something about it. (I also noticed, that the town can't be that close to the field, since it was sunny when Elaina got the flowers and dark when she arrived in the town). Moreover, just like someone already said somewhere, the field probably didn't appear when Elaina arrived. It must have been a problem for quite some time and the town could have done something about it. There are many powerful witches so why not hire one of them? It's not her job to fix the mess they ignore (or they can't do anything about it). Anyway, I'm not saying this was a masterpiece or something. The flower story was quite rushed, in manga it was told better. I just don't like how people are dropping this, calling Elaina the worst person ever etc. But yea, they could have done it better. (but I read somewhere that it wasn't much better in the novel, so I can't blame the studio for staying true to the material. But they could have added some internal monologue) Otorez said: A darkser episode than I expected from this show which seemed to be all lovely colorful shining positive. A few points that disturbed me : the country knows the flower fields is dangerous for anyone but witches. However they never asked any magician to get rid of it : why ? Second weird point happened when Elaina saw the guard being swallowed by plants while turning crazy : she didn't have any reaction, like no disgust, no horror, just nothing. Anyone should be reacting somehow watching that yet she just left. Lastly, her lack of reaction about the second part in the village chief's house. I didn't expect her to rescue Nino (actually she probably has enough food to sustain as well as a bed in a house) but didn't mention or claimed her treatment wasn't appropriated. As again she turned a blind eye and left, even indicating she doesn't want to learn what happens next. Well perhaps this show will also have its dark sides. I agree with your first point, I don't get it. Your second point, she did have some reaction, just not that intense as in other anime. She was trying to say something but saw that the guard is being swallowed (or what) by the plant. She realised there was nothing she could do, so she backed off. There was rain and we couldn't clearly see Elaina's face. I think this was supposed to show her mood towards the whole situation. Helplessness. This was my interpretation. For your third point, I agree she could have said something. But maybe she realised it was bad when she was already leaving? Well, she did turn a blind eye. As for why she didn't want to learn what happened to the girl, there wasn't much she could do to fix the situation and sometimes it's better when you don't know some things. Especially if they could be painful. This way there is still hope for a better ending. Mod Note: Merged consecutive posts |
dipItFooOct 29, 2020 7:36 PM
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| Edgelords: Hell Yeah! Nice Job Elaina. You damn normies downvoting cause Hurr Durr She didn't Help *inserts Neckbeard meme*. She's not a Hero she doesn't need to poke her nose in stuff where she doesn't belong to. She doesn't need to at least do something. That's the way to go Also Them in Real Life: Why aren't you helping you useless fucks! You Fckn Jerks If you have the time to record an incident then you could have at least helped. I can smell hypocrisy from a mile away. It's understandable that some of the audience didn't like Elaina's stance. It was quite suprising for Elaina to just up and fly away without at least telling anyone.I did expect the score to be the same or a little higher but still a very small decrease is not that bad. I found the episode interesting although feels like a bit rushed unlike the episodes before. |
DarkwindJROct 20, 2020 2:38 AM
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| I don't get this anime. I love the setting and the stories have some dark tones to them but... Elaina is the most passive character I've seen. On 1st chapter theres a really cool magic fight and you see Elaina being upfront, and thats it. I guess this is a more chill out experience but she never intervenes; nor destroying the flowers nor asking if Nino if she is Saya's sister. Maybe is just me tho. (BTW I like this anime, its just that I think it could've been so much better) |
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| Wait? That was it?!!! Thats what people are going mental about?????? Ive been sitting here for 3 episodes tense thinking about what horrible thing people have been on about like "Ok here it comes........its coming...............theres only 3 minutes left it must be that the boy is mentally unstable or something and the 'happiness' is something dark" and then I watch it and its just one implied thing. I was here expecting Goblin Slayer level of scene because of how people are talking about how "Dark" this series surprisingly is. I heard people mentioning rape and suicide. THANK FUCK IT WASNT!! Now I can nicely without worry enjoy this series. Its still a nice cute series. But during that plant part I got so confused like "Wait, thats it? We're moving on? Wasnt that entire town gonna get nuked?" but oh well. Not sure why we skipped that but I guess the series wants to keep moving on. |
DarknessRealityOct 19, 2020 5:07 PM
| Yuritopia FTW!!!!!!!!! BANZAI TO YURI !!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Both stories took a much darker turn than expected. I'm glad that Elaina stays more on the sidelines, as the stories aren't about her she just watches them unfold. |
Alpha_Druid said: In the second story, the first problem I noticed is why the hell did the bowl cut even call out to the mc? Plot contrivance I say. Second, is that the mc conveniently forgets about the ending of just the right book in just the right situation. Then she conveniently remembers again at the end. Plot convenience I say. Also, a poor attempt at delivering the message. Different people with different values. Some people are just joyful to share their experiences or a valuable they just found/got even with strangers. I admit I'm not a people kind of guy, but in my lifetime there had been a couple times where just joyful people have aproached me either on the street or at a time in my younger years when I worked retail, to show me some stuff they just got. It sounds crazy, and maybe it is, but it has happened and that just shows some people don't have a problem being so open with strangers. This is even a bit come common in rural areas pre-covid era, these kind of people are just more warming and welcoming to strangers. Secondly the human brain can work in different ways. It's easier to remember joyful passages of a book (like the part where Elaina remebered of the guy bringing the gift to the lady with images of the world) but also bitter or gruesome parts can be blocked by the brain in order to protect itself. There are literaly dozens of sites that explain how the brain blocks unwanted thoughts and/or memories https://www.livescience.com/60869-how-brain-suppress-thoughts-memories.html Memories can be triggered by events, sensations, even smells or particular colors. Elaina remembering the bitter passage of her book isn't plot convenience, the bitter experience she lived is more than enough to make her remember a supressed memory of the book. Alpha_Druid said: People also say that Kino also doesn't interfere in her journeys. But the thing is that her character isn't powerful like the mc here. Why does she even has to be a witch, basically the most powerful of the mages and people in general, when we don't see her utilizing it to her full extent? If the anime just wanted her to travel and not interfere/help even if she wanted to but couldn't because she isn't powerful enough to do so (talking of first story), then make her a basic bit- mage. Seems quite wasteful to me. Kino's power doesn't come from magical powers, super strenght or superior tech. It comes from her knowledge and experiences as a traveler. She could had influenciated a lot of people in her journeys thru dialogue and reasoning, but she didn't because she didn't want to be dragged into a local problem that would probably lock her for a very long time. Take "Ship Country on the beach" as a good example. She could had easily talked to the people of the wandering ship to be reasonable and change their MO, land ashore and ditch the ship that it's just weeks from falling appart killing all the stubborn citizens that don't want to change the way they live. But she didn't, it would had been counter productive trying to change the ways of a whole society that doesn't want to change. Mark these words, because it's part of the same dilemma Elaina was put in. Alpha_Druid said: The first two episodes show that she is willing to help other people. The mc's mom said her to not think yourself as special but as we saw in the first story, clearly not the case. She barges right into the entrance even when asked to stop and acts arrogantly when rightfully called a girl. Seems like a witch hunt is in need. Putting some context behind the poor translation Funimation gave to that part, komusume is a bit of despective way to call out a girl, 小娘 the first kanji is translated to little or young, the second one (musume) is translated as girl. The guard literally called her "little girl", I can easily see how an 18 year old girl being called little girl would find it annoying enough not to pay attention whomever is calling her that way. Also let us remember that in the past episode mages had their very own entrance to the city and the guards there were a lot kinder to her, don't forget they stated that mages didn't need any kind of documentation to enter the city since their badges is more than enough for free pass. Obviously in this new city reigned by humans things are different, we can say that it's a life lesson for Elaina, but it never looked like she was acting arrogant or righteous as you call her. Alpha_Druid said: fluroboy said: They deleted my posts for some reason so I guess I'll just say my thoughts without quoting someone else. I thought this episode in particular really highlighted everything I've disliked about this anime so far: a) the protagonist is, for lack of a better word, a complete mary sue, and a very unlikeable one at that. She is extremely powerful, but rarely uses her power to help those truly in need. It would be one thing if she had some inner turmoil about the two cases in the episode, but she is always portrayed as right. Leaving a slave to die? Nah she's fine. b) It's a typical cute but dark anime. I'm genuinely sick of seeing anime expect me to care about their plot when its just a generic edgy plotline with a cutesy main character. "Dark" anime are good because they bring up interesting questions. What is interesting or thought provoking about seeing a slave getting abused? Is it bad? Of course. Can she help? Maybe. Those answers are set in stone, NOBODY thinks otherwise It's not all bad so far though. I'm really digging the animation and aesthetic. I still have my fingers crossed that maybe I'm just being hypercritical, but we shall see. Agree with you completely, especially with the first point. She was shown helping that apprentice witch in previous episode. Now she is shown that she mostly doesn't care what happens, souring my experience. This and that are completely different situations with a completely different magnitude in consequences. Elaina helped Saya out because she was already sucked in Saya's scheme to make her company and a couple of days teaching her magic to pass her exam and also giving her a new perspective that would make her less attached to others only costed Elaina a couple of days. The situation with the Town Chief and his slave is a total can of worms anyone with an ounce of functional brain would avoid, unless they are a self proclaimed saviour or a saint willing to create a bigger conflict for the better in a small community. Alpha_Druid said: ibraheem234 said: this episode was really something... quite a depressing episode..I thought elaina would change something...but like she mentioned she is only a traveller and not a character that can change people lives... Oh she can change people's lives. Destroy someone's house with a swing of her wand. Now they're homeless. Then fly away. There is no established law that prevents her from doing that in that world. Actually, now that i think about it the world building is terrible. It's only been 3 episodes and you're expecting the director and screenwriter to reveal the whole social strata and law enforcement of this brand new world? forgive my laughter. Non linear storytelling can be added later on how this world is works when it comes to keeping troublesome mages in check and make the viewer reflect on what could had been the consequences. |
Alpha_Druid said: 1. Because that's what humans do when presented with a situation. They think. They mull over it. And thinking is shown through monologue. The only monologue shown here is the narcissistic ramblings in each episode. 2. Character development is not necessarily the change. It is establishing a personality in the first place. Delving into the psyche of a character. Showing why a character behaves a certain way. We only k 1. Because real people think when presented with a situation. People think so that they can resolve the situation. Thinking is shown through internal monologue. The only monologue here is the narcissistic ramblings each episode. 2. Character development isn't just about change. It is first establishing a personality for a character. How do they behave in a given situation. What action do they take and why do they take that specific action? What you mentioned is character growth or progression. It is a generally good thing because real people change. I know I did. This can also be achieved self-reflection which requires thinking. Sure, so let's say "simple character" = character with little/no internal monologue and "complex character" = character with internal monologue. Why is one better than the other in terms of storytelling? When people say "character development" in anime, it's almost always referring to character progression. This is evident because when people use it, it's usually associated with some change in the character or some self reflection. You'd be able to find many videos on YouTube where some anti-hero undergoes a change and people will comment on it as "character development". But regardless, let's assume character development includes character traits. Many characters in anime already have distinct personalities based on the expressions, what they say, how they react, etc. that you can tell what kind of person they are. Are they outgoing? Timid? Morbid? It's already quite evident that many characters in anime already have these distinct traits with the exception of some anime such as SAO where everyone is homogenous. Alpha_Druid said: The first example is of plot contrivance. Do you see random strangers calling each other out in real life? Would you so it? If so, why? Just to say hi? Lol. The point is there are better ways they could've met but a contrived scene it is. But this isn't plot contrivance at all. You're committing a false equivalence here. If someone were in a field all alone with no one else in sight for miles, and they saw some figure they deemed important approaching, then it's not unusual at all that they would make a waving gesture. Real life? There are many random, unremarkable strangers around you especially if you're in an urban area or walking in the city downtown that it's pointless to say hi to everyone you meet. Alpha_Druid said: Plot convenience is just having the right thing in the right place, like when our mc has conveniently read about a really similar event in a book and how she conveniently forgot about the ending specifically. And how she remembered the ending at just the right time(when nothing could be done) just so can we have a message. I think that's pretty convenient. A little bit of convenience doesn't harm but this much? That's used for effect. It's a way to add oomph to what the writer is trying to convey. Such tactics are commonly adopted in writing. However it fundamentally doesn't drive the plot dynamics, so I don't see what the problem is here. Do you have a suggestion on how the author could have handled the story to convey the moral in a more impactful manner? Alpha_Druid said: Also, plot armor, plot contrivance, asspulls and plot convenience are all clearly different concepts if the different names didn't make it clear. Plot armor is the character not dying in situations where they clearly should. Because we know there would be no story if the main character died. Asspulls is getting inexplicable powerups. No, they're all play on words that fundamentally all refer to the same concept or very similar concepts; they all denote a degree of unbelievability within the story that a viewer has no choice but to accept as part of the story. Plot armor, plot contrivance, and asspulls can all be used interchangeably in most contexts. Alpha_Druid said: Luffy didn't get gear 2nd by eating meat. Lol. Did we even watch the same anime? He goes gear 2nd when he pumps more blood through his veins. His body can handle this since he's made of rubber. He put the beatdown on the enemy because he was faster and stronger due to more blood pumping through this body. Also, iirc he mentioned he prepared offscreen for this and didn't just come up with it on the spot. He never had to get stronger before because he was always stronger than his enemies upto that point. When I said "Like Luffy going 2nd gear for the first time and suddenly putting the beat down on his opponents because he ate some meat", I was associating the meat part with him beating down his opponents, not that he went 2nd gear as a result of. My apologies if I wasn't being clear. In Luffy's fight with Blueno, he fought comfortably and even somewhat overpowered him without needing 2nd gear when prior he couldn't make a scratch on him. The explanation in the anime was that he was "hungry". This is an asspull, plot contrivance, and plot armor. 2nd gear is similar; there was no explanation at all on how he learned this while the viewer was forced to accept this aspect without question. This is similar to the problem you have of not knowing a character's internal monologue. Alpha_Druid said: Oh she can change people's lives. Destroy someone's house with a swing of her wand. Now they're homeless. Then fly away. There is no established law that prevents her from doing that in that world. Actually, now that i think about it the world building is terrible. This is unsound logic; it's akin to violating the burden of proof. You're asserting that witches can do these sorts of things until it is established that they can't, and therefore the world building is terrible. Using this rationale, any fantasy character can literally do anything in their respective world unless it is established that they can't; but you clearly cannot establish an infinite list of tasks a character cannot do. There could be a teapot orbiting Neptune, or an invisible donkey living inside a black hole, or any of the infinite number of ridiculous assertions about the universe/multiverse that one could conceive of, but nobody assumes they are true unless proven otherwise. |
OpticflashOct 20, 2020 1:22 AM
| Charm to her adventure? Bitch just witnessed dozens of not hundreds of people die, did nothing. Then HeheXD'd a man who was clearly raping a little girl before implying she was going to them all. Don't get me wrong this shit was fire if you're looking at this on the morbid way it was, but charm? |
| I really loved the first 2 eps, this ep however was kinda disappointing. This show might turn into something I don't like, based on this episode. |
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| A lot of people here shitting on Elaina lol She have a lot of wisdom which i really like she stays as neutral/observer as much so she will not cause bigger trouble and if she can help, she will really help look what she did on episode 2. After 3 eps this turn to dark pretty quickly I like this, its pretty unique its not a shounen genre that she will save everyone and will have plot armor then solve everything then all people will live happily ever after LOL You need an open mind to watch this anime |
| B O C C H I S W E E P |
| I remember calling this out (in Rpisode 1) to be Kino's Journey, Dark Edition, and BOY OH BOY did I foreshadow right to the T. Anyways, quite the controversial episode that covers the shorter Chapter 2 of the manga adaptation of the LN. "The Country of Flowers" as the manga chapter is referenced, and everyone is afraid of magical flowers of death, as labelled. But somehow the story got so condensed that it was lackluster. The 2nd half of another story about bottling happiness whilst continuing with the whole "flowers of death" thing, and the sibling Emil and slave Nino, being in an oppressed state, but what to do about it, if Elaina took action she'd be a hero to save others instead. I'd presume the problem with this episode with SO MANY PEOPLE BEING TRIGGERED is the fact that Elaina could've done something to save the oppressed, but alas, she's only a traveller, so being a passerby and an observer we'd expect her to take action for kindness, BUT NOPE. This trait exists in Kino's Journey as well, with the unspoken rule of travelling being: "Don't put your nose where it does not belong." If she went saving people instead, it would be entirely a Shonen trope, and I believe that that's NOT what the novelist had intended on mind when writing this. Tsuukaku-Zanryuu said: Everyone wants their own elitist answers, and sad that these thoughts are not taken to heart.You need an open mind to watch this anime |
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Bear_from_cave said: If it means the episode leaves no explanation why Elaina didn't do anything to help the slave, yes, I'm expecting them to either do that or to move that story to later parts. Otherwise it's just bad writing. Why is this bad writing? |
Bear_from_cave said: Kimurah said: It's only been 3 episodes and you're expecting the director and screenwriter to reveal the whole social strata and law enforcement of this brand new world? forgive my laughter. Non linear storytelling can be added later on how this world is works when it comes to keeping troublesome mages in check and make the viewer reflect on what could had been the consequences. If it means the episode leaves no explanation why Elaina didn't do anything to help the slave, yes, I'm expecting them to either do that or to move that story to later parts. Otherwise it's just bad writing. And one more thing. Some people say that first part was to establish truth of the moral that sometimes doing something out of kindness has bad effects. the second part has it repeated with story from book, where the husband ends up hurting his wife, as parallel to showing happiness to slave, and that is supposedly why Elaina doesn't try to help slave, because she learned to not make situation worse. Except if that was the moral, then the moral is bullshit. Nino isn't incurably sick, she is held captive. She doesn't need fake happiness, she needs to be freed and that would solve her problems. Elaina ignores that anyway. She doesn't want to return because the end of Nino story could be too sad - how the hell isn't seeing a beaten, abused and raped kid horrifyingly sad already? Quick Edit. I forgot that in Kin's Journey there were two episodes with slavers and in both slavers died clearly as a result of their worldview of treating people as a things - Compare that to Elaina's "Eh, slavery just happens sometimes, that's how the world is." How would freeing her make the situation better for Elaina or the slave? If you think about the good and the bad of freeing the slave, the bad outweighs the good. Right off the bat, slavery is legal, so you're stealing whether you're morally correct or not. This could lead to a spread of bad rumors about a witch with silver hair releasing slaves and assaulting/threatening slave owners which could restrict her access to some countries, which may be life threatening in the future. Even if she did decided to free the slave, what then? She can't leave her to the owner's son for obvious reasons. She can't work in the town she lives in as she'll just be taken in as a slave again and dropping her off at another town or city would be a huge burden and we don't even know if the broom could hold more than 2 people at once. Her mother also said not to do anything rash, which this is a perfect example of not getting involved as she isn't meant to be a hero, she's supposed to be an adventurer and has no reason to save everyone she sees. Just because she has the ability save people it doesn't mean she should. |
PetrichoOct 20, 2020 7:57 AM
Bear_from_cave said: Because we have heroine ignoring horrible suffering of fellow human being for no reason. Why does she ignore that? This is a story with a moral "kindness can be cruel" with wife's illness as analogy to Nino's suffering, but unlike ilness Nino can be helped by being freed. Without explanation why is that not an option the moral is broken. But the bolded part doesn't explain why that's bad writing. We have someone that supposedly ignores the suffering of others (there are a few possible reasons why she didn't interact but none of which the author made known), but even then if suppose that in the end she doesn't care, why is that bad writing? The moral of the story was emphasized when the chief's son tried to make an act of kindness. Lustrius said: How would freeing her make the situation better for Elaina or the slave? If you think about the good and the bad of freeing the slave, the bad outweighs the good. Right off the bat, slavery is legal, so you're stealing whether you're morally correct or not. This could lead to a spread of bad rumors about a witch with silver hair releasing slaves and assaulting/threatening slave owners which could restrict her access to some countries, which may be life threatening in the future. Even if she did decided to free the slave, what then? She can't leave her to the owner's son for obvious reasons. She can't work in the town she lives in as she'll just be taken in as a slave again and dropping her off at another town or city would be a huge burden and we don't even know if the broom could hold more than 2 people at once. Her mother also said not to do anything rash, which this is a perfect example of not getting involved as she isn't meant to be a hero, she's supposed to be an adventurer and has no reason to save everyone she sees. Just because she has the ability save people it doesn't mean she should. What's humorous is that the author's original intention was to encourage viewers to think about the moral themes presented, which in turn resulted in many viewers blatantly disregarding the message (or not understanding it) and instead criticizing Elaina's character, which resulted in several forum discussions that touch on the very aspect the author wanted the viewers to think about. |
OpticflashOct 20, 2020 9:19 AM
Bear_from_cave said: Lustrius said: How would freeing her make the situation better for Elaina or the slave? If you think about the good and the bad of freeing the slave, the bad outweighs the good. Right off the bat, slavery is legal, so you're stealing whether you're morally correct or not. People of Underground Railroad didn't think the bad outweighs the good, and I agree with them. Well, obviously because your example is from the slaves perspective, while this is Elaina's.....A bystander, not a slave. Bear_from_cave said: Lustrius said: This could lead to a spread of bad rumors about a witch with silver hair releasing slaves and assaulting/threatening slave owners which could restrict her access to some countries, which may be life threatening in the future. She doesn't need to free all slaves, but she could at least try to help the one so horribly mistreated right in front of her eyes. That's what i'm asking, how?? And freeing one slave while threatening the owner would leave a bad impression no matter what, and like i said, might restrict her access to some countries whether it's one or a dozen. Rumors also get distorted so it doesn't matter how many Bear_from_cave said: Lustrius said: Even if she did decided to free the slave, what then? She can't leave her to the owner's son for obvious reasons. She can't work in the town she lives in as she'll just be taken in as a slave again and dropping her off at another town or city would be a huge burden and we don't even know if the broom could hold more than 2 people at once. Her mother also said not to do anything rash, which this is a perfect example of not getting involved as she isn't meant to be a hero, she's supposed to be an adventurer and has no reason to save everyone she sees. Just because she has the ability save people it doesn't mean she should. If she sees almost a child still suffering so horribly she thinks she'll end up committing suicide from abuse, yes, she absolutely should try to do something or she is a shitperson. Huge burden? Compared to saving someone from life of constant abuse, that's shitty excuse. We never see her even mulling her options, she just makes things worse twice (threatening the major without saving her just ensures he will take it out on her later) and leaves. How though? How will she make the situation better without making it worse than it already is? If there was a way then i would have been agreeing with you the whole time but there isn't, that's the whole reason why i'm defending her actions. There's so many people criticizing Elaina about her being immoral and that she should've done something yet they themselves can never think of a way for her to make the situation better without making it worse for the slave or Elaina. |
PetrichoOct 20, 2020 10:12 AM
Bear_from_cave said: Lustrius said: Well, obviously because your example is from the slaves perspective, while this is Elaina's..... Underground Railroad wasn't name for just slaves, but also all the white people who helped them. Well i didn't learn that as i'm not from the U.S. Also, Elaina's an adventurer who won't even stay for more than a day, while the white people who helped were probably permanent residents, part of the anti slavery movement. Just because one is against slavery, it doesn't mean that person will actively try to free them. Bear_from_cave said: Lustrius said: That's what i'm asking, how?? And freeing one slave while threatening the owner would leave a bad impression no matter what, and like i said, might restrict her access to some countries whether it's one or a dozen. Rumors also get distorted so it doesn't matter how many How though????? If there was a way then i would have been agreeing with you the whole time but there isn't, that's the whole reason why i'm defending her actions That depends on whether slavery is universal or just local like in Kino, and if there are any rights protecting slaves. For some reason we're never told that, despite it being crucial to understanding Elaina's refusal to help . We don't know that. That's the whole point. You don't know the whole story and whether slavery is just local or not (Probably not because i'm pretty sure the slave owner said "Bought") yet you automatically assume she's an immoral monster without a conscience. Unlike in Kino's journey, wandering witch only has 3 episodes released, so you don't even know if they might further the explanation in the later episodes about the world. Bear_from_cave said: "using Magic" well that's pretty obvious in who freed her, also, the day a witch with huge discomfort with slaves arrives and leaves then all of a sudden, the slave mysteriously escapes... sorta obvious isn't it? Plus, the slave owner will just get another slave afterwards, your solution is meaningless as it just helps create more demands for slaves.If slavery is local, she can just try to return in the night, create distraction using magic and help her run away in confusion, give her ride to nearest free country. Even safer way is to convince son to secretly take her out on a tour to make her happy, help him hide from father, and tell Nino she can just leave if she wants once they reach their destination. If slavery is widespread for some reason, that's harder, but also depends on how people recognize slaves - is there some brand or magical seal? Are there abolitionist groups like in the USA? Do slaves escape often? Second solution makes no sense. Do you think the son will defy his father so easily like that? Plus, the son loves Nino, i doubt he'll just easily let her choose and he'll most definitely not go with Nino if she decides to escape as they have no where to go. You're forcing the son to make the decision to choose Nino or his father which is impossible to decide over a couple hours. Also, because slavery is clearly much more common in Elaina's universe, Elaina is obviously much less repulsed by slavery than you. Freeing the slave after they were kind enough to feed you a large and proper meal may leave a struggle in her conscience, even if she is repulsed by it. You're calling her immoral by today's standards, which then you're not judging fairly. By your logic, anyone who had the power to free slaves even though it carries lots of risk but chose not to back when slavery was legal than are immoral people without a conscience. Lol, lot's of people born without consciences, huh? Bear_from_cave said: Big problem with this episode no one even considers if freeing Nino is possible, like it was obvious she must stay untill she suicides. We never hear Elaina's thoughts about it - just the few seconds she aims wands at the major, whatever that is supposed to mean. What? Did you expect them to just spoon feed you all the answers and possibilities of escape and counters to that? Yeah, good luck trying to fit all that options in her mind and explain it to you within 5 seconds. The whole point of journey's and adventures is to learn about the world as time goes on with a mysterious feel. How would an adventure feel satisfying if you already know everything there is to know? Heck, Kino's journey LN is still publishing, further expanding on the universe. You're expectation for a 20 minute episode is way too large. It's been only 3 episodes, let the world build and show itself to you. And i highly doubt that the 14+ volumes of Elaina's journey will never touch slavery again. Bear_from_cave said: All this could be avoided if for example when Elaina met the son he would ask if she's unhappy, and offered her the bottle, saying he used to collect happiness for his gloomy house-servant and wife-to-be, but she died recently so he now wants to give this last bottle to someone else who is unhappy in her memory, and then listening to him Elaina would slowly understood the real story, too late to help anyone. This is how most Kino's episodes are as I remember, which avoids the whole choice of helping or not. The difference with Kino that annoys me so much is that with slavery, in Kino we have the theme of neutral, passive and merely observing heroine strengthened in both slavery episodes by moral of "if while traveling you see people dying, it's better to not save them if they're slavers", while the equivalent moral from Elaina is "if you see abused slave, don't be kind to them, it just make them feel worse. Freeing them? That's not on the question list, sorry". But she did try. She never abused her, yelled at her, and tried to defend her when she was getting yelled at by the slave owner by fixing the pots and threatening the owner by pointing a wand. Realizing there is no way to help, she decided not to. Also, i think you're forgetting that, Kino's is an experienced adventurer when she met those slave traders, while Elaina was not, even if she was older. |
PetrichoOct 20, 2020 11:41 AM
frukt91 said: Elania just spectator then we don't need her as a character. you could just as easily compile a story with random stories if shes JUST a spectator then she has no value as the main character. thus her character is flat and uneeded. from a writing stand point making your main character JUST a spectator is bad writing. your main character must be engaging, interesting, and above all relatable to the viewer she is none of theses things tanakucchi said: I'm sill confused, isn't Elaina's purpose in the story is to tell her journey? Her character is obviously just a device to tell other characters story. Why are people mad?l. that makes her a flat 1 dimensional character. if your characters only purpose is to move the character along how is that any different then using deus ex machina or daibolius ex machina to just move the story along? it's not you not using a character show interesting has there own personalty (because she doesn't have one other then being a one note narcissist and reminding the audience that shes "cute/ beautiful" every episode/volume. i have the same problem with characters like Naruto's characters who don't really contribute that much why are they here what is there psyche? why do they do the things they do and if you've seen my list that is the closest series i have come to giving a series a 1 |
GrimAtramentOct 20, 2020 11:44 AM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| I can't believe she didn't singlehandedly end the institution of slavery, bad and unrealistic writing. |
| Sigh. |
| Great episode Both the short stories were quite tragic, damn Nino was def also used as a sex slave |
| So not only is Elaina a narcissist, but now she also lacks basic human empathy... Yikes. Psychopath in the guise of a "cute girl" pretty much. |
 |
| I really do have a problem with the way Elaina handled the two situations (that is, by doing nothing). She has powerful magic and access to an essentially infinite amount spells, yet dips whenever she sees fucked up situations. I don’t want anyone telling me she was just following her mom’s advice either. Her mom told her to immediately retreat from dangerous situations, which neither would have been to her. She could have easily destroyed the entire field, stopping anyone else from dying, as well as using some sort of spell to change the situation in the mayor’s house. She could have at least freed the enslaved girl that is being r*ped by the mayor. Instead she just says “oh well” and fucks off to the next town. Why should I like her as our lead character? She fails to do things “in her power” to help others like any other decent human being would. If the trend for this anime is Elaina leaving very solvable situations for no real reason, then I’m out, because she fails to be a respectable human on a basic level. |
baghetz said: Hanfos said: what did i just watch i thought this anime will be great but maybe i was wrong this ep was horrible a witch traveling trough the world. watching ppl suffer and dying and doesnt give a single fuck i might drop soon if she keeps staying completely useless tbh i think that’s a good thing though. overrighteous characters get stale after a while. Elaina is just a traveller, not a hero. she did promise her mother to stay safe after all, so it is in her best interest to not get involved in unnecessary stuff There is a difference between being “overrighteous” and just lacking basic human decency. She could have AT LEAST stopped any more people from getting infected by the plants with no threat to herself. She can clearly solve these issues, but doesn’t for literally no reason. The anime doesn’t even try to explain why she doesn’t do anything. She just leaves and says something like “yeah that enslaved girl is probably gonna kill herself. Oh well”. How can I possibly relate to this character? I can guarentee that most of the people in this comment section would have done something in both situations if we had her abilities. |
Azukano said: If you thought this was a display of apathy from Elaina. Then you obviously don't know the point that this show is trying to tell. Very similar to another show "Kino no Tabi" both display the harsh realities of the world. Elaina plays the role of the "neutral observer" to avoid COMPLICATING already EXISTING issues. She isn't obliged to play the role of the hero. She's smart to not get involved and cause MORE trouble for herself and possibly even her family too. Open your mind to these themes, or go watch "happy ending, hero shows" if you can't handle the reality of the world we live in. I’m glad you brought up “Kino no Tabi” as an example that relates to this anime. But something that is different between the two is that the protagonist in “Kino no Tabi” is a 15 year-old with no special powers, whereas, Elaina is 18 years-old and has a wide array of powerful abilities. I understand the narrative idea of being a passive observer roaming through many different areas, but that only works when the protagonist does not have the ability to easily solve the situation. This just makes the protagonist appear to be too apathetic to relate to on a basic level. |
Azukano said: Blue_Maroon said: I’m glad you brought up “Kino no Tabi” as an example that relates to this anime. But something that is different between the two is that the protagonist in “Kino no Tabi” is a 15 year-old with no special powers, whereas, Elaina is 18 years-old and has a wide array of powerful abilities. I understand the narrative idea of being a passive observer roaming through many different areas, but that only works when the protagonist does not have the ability to easily solve the situation. This just makes the protagonist appear to be too apathetic to relate to on a basic level. Are we always supposed to relate with what a character does in a series? You may think that way, but this displays a new type of character that isn't your typical cookie-cutter main protagonist where you always think "I feel this character on a personal level". Although I haven't read the LN, do we know if Elaina is as "apathetic" as you say she is. Maybe, maybe not. But it's very early to really say anything. I haven’t read the LN either, but I am not getting a “character study” approach from this anime. If we are being honest, we do not know too much about Elaina’s character right now and we are 3 episodes deep. If the focus of the anime shifts to Elaina’s character and the psychology behind her actions, then that would make sense as a narrative concept and save this anime in my eyes. But, if it remains focused on the world and the different characters within it, then I view Elaina’s apathetic actions to be as an irredeemable flaw because we are supposed to like her as our protagonist then. |
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