| This is a mostly opinionated thread based on the follow issue: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/13/coronavirus-stimulus-mcconnell-plans-relief-vote-pelosi-slams-trump.html Right now we are in a tug of war for the NEXT Stimulus package...another round of Stimulus checks to Americans, more PPP, more Unemployment benefits. Both sides hate each other and thus the chances of anything getting passed is minimal. Blah, blah, blah....that's boring. Here's what I'm more interested in discussing... Should the U.S even be doing all of this? We are literally creating money out of thin air AGAIN...how much trillions of dollars have we pumped into the economy by now? 6 Trillion? 7 Trillion? What's another 2 Trillion, right? Except Economics 101 teaches us precisely what will occur....INFLATION. In fact DEEP INFLATION is what we will eventually have as we continue to "stimulate" the economy by literally typing zeros. Whatever happened to allowing the Market to dictate who goes out of business and who will survive? For fucks sake....what happened to Capitalism?! Discuss. |
--ALEX--Oct 13, 2020 6:29 PM
| is your GDP to Debt ratio still good though? because as long as your economy grows faster than your debt then it will be fine |
deg said: is your GDP to Debt ratio still good though? because as long as your economy grows faster than your debt then it will be fine I'm not sure, I can't imagine it's good...not after 2020. And here's the most insane part about all this stimulus money. Remember when the GOP said "How can you PAY for Medicare for all?" Well...Medicare for all is already a lot cheaper than spending close to 10 TRILLION dollars in less than a year. That's literally what the U.S has done with all these stimulus packages. The U.S dollar is gonna be worth exactly what it's printed on....nothing. |
--ALEX-- said: deg said: is your GDP to Debt ratio still good though? because as long as your economy grows faster than your debt then it will be fine I'm not sure, I can't imagine it's good...not after 2020. And here's the most insane part about all this stimulus money. Remember when the GOP said "How can you PAY for Medicare for all?" Well...Medicare for all is already a lot cheaper than spending close to 10 TRILLION dollars in less than a year. That's literally what the U.S has done with all these stimulus packages. The U.S dollar is gonna be worth exactly what it's printed on....nothing. nah its not that simple there is two kinds of economic policy one is fiscal policy or government spending (ex. stimulus) and taxes and the other is monetary policy aka your central bank or federal reserve controlling the inflation so those 2 needs to do some good teamwork in order for your economy to not go bust and affect the whole world again |
| Except that runaway hyperinflation, the scenario that plenty of libertarians harp about, didn't happen in the face of trillions of dollars in quantitative easing during the 2009 financial crisis. If there's anything to believe, it's empirical evidence rather than textbook theory, and the thing is, where was the inflation resulting from the $5 trillion that was spent on the stimulus and bailout of corporations since the Covid-crisis? Surely if that money was printed into the economy, buyers and sellers should've realized the dilution of value in the U.S dollar and have adjusted their prices accordingly? Yet prices have not risen across the board since. The reason is because most of the money isn't actually a transaction, just an accounting function where government extends credit to offset bad balance sheets of corporations, so no money is actually being printed and exchanged, thus no inflationary effects. If you want to argue about national debt, there's plenty empirical evidence that debt won't be a problem, so there's really no solid ground for fears of impending financial disaster as a result of the stimulus. In fact, 30% of Americans are facing evictions through no fault of their own since the pandemic, and ~46% say they are experiencing serious financial distress, so there's justification for more stimulus, not ceasing it. |
| "I saw the Emperor - this soul of the world - go out from the city to survey his reign; it is a truly wonderful sensation to see such an individual, who, concentrating on one point while seated on a horse, stretches over the world and dominates it." |
| I lost a bet. Ok I was checking and seeing if someone was impersonating your username with your avatar. |
 |
Bladezeranium said: Except that runaway hyperinflation, the scenario that plenty of libertarians harp about, didn't happen in the face of trillions of dollars in quantitative easing during the 2009 financial crisis. If there's anything to believe, it's empirical evidence rather than textbook theory, and the thing is, where was the inflation resulting from the $5 trillion that was spent on the stimulus and bailout of corporations since the Covid-crisis? Surely if that money was printed into the economy, buyers and sellers should've realized the dilution of value in the U.S dollar and have adjusted their prices accordingly? Yet prices have not risen across the board since. The reason is because most of the money isn't actually a transaction, just an accounting function where government extends credit to offset bad balance sheets of corporations, so no money is actually being printed and exchanged, thus no inflationary effects. If you want to argue about national debt, there's plenty empirical evidence that debt won't be a problem, so there's really no solid ground for fears of impending financial disaster as a result of the stimulus. Ok...I get that. Now here's the question. How many more stimulus bills will there be? So, assuming they pass this new one....that's another 2 Trillion dollars. Let's say by January things are STILL bad, still high unemployment, still COVID, still no full recovery. So we need ANOTHER stimulus. I'm not pretending to be an economist, nor do I profess to fully understand all of this, but how is it possible to print Trillions upon Trillions with ZERO repercussions? |
--ALEX-- said: Bladezeranium said: Except that runaway hyperinflation, the scenario that plenty of libertarians harp about, didn't happen in the face of trillions of dollars in quantitative easing during the 2009 financial crisis. If there's anything to believe, it's empirical evidence rather than textbook theory, and the thing is, where was the inflation resulting from the $5 trillion that was spent on the stimulus and bailout of corporations since the Covid-crisis? Surely if that money was printed into the economy, buyers and sellers should've realized the dilution of value in the U.S dollar and have adjusted their prices accordingly? Yet prices have not risen across the board since. The reason is because most of the money isn't actually a transaction, just an accounting function where government extends credit to offset bad balance sheets of corporations, so no money is actually being printed and exchanged, thus no inflationary effects. If you want to argue about national debt, there's plenty empirical evidence that debt won't be a problem, so there's really no solid ground for fears of impending financial disaster as a result of the stimulus. Ok...I get that. Now here's the question. How many more stimulus bills will there be? So, assuming they pass this new one....that's another 2 Trillion dollars. Let's say by January things are STILL bad, still high unemployment, still COVID, still no full recovery. So we need ANOTHER stimulus. I'm not pretending to be an economist, nor do I profess to fully understand all of this, but how is it possible to print Trillions upon Trillions with ZERO repercussions? im not sure why there is zero repercussions but that is how the Central Banks are like your Federal Reserve they basically print money and adjust the interest rates in order to adjust the inflation if they do it right |
deg said: im not sure why there is zero repercussions but that is how the Central Banks are like your Federal Reserve they basically print money and adjust the interest rates in order to adjust the inflation if they do it right Well yeah, if done correctly, inflation is gradual and mostly background noise. But this is something we've never seen, no where close. I just feel like fiscal responsibility has gone out the window....we can't allow a business to go bankrupt because it's "Too big to fail". And for anyone thinking that I don't want a Stimulus to pass and I don't care about Americans...that's not true. The problem is, the MAJORITY of this money goes to corporations....not the people that are literally being evicted or are now doing food lines. |
| Take the money from that useless fence and the military budget. Done deal. |
| Yes there should be. I mean, industry and markets are being bailed out, and that was since before the pandemic. Farmers got more welfare than actual welfare recipients, we paid more to make food than we paid to buy it for consumption; cause of a trade war in which we didn't win-- just resorted to naming the opponent's companies as spies and try it that way (may not even work and we pay their legal fees). All these businesses rebuffed artificially while demand is low is disaster-- and at the moment the influx meant to be from people-to-business to help the economy is constricted to a few cause of the faults in the pipelines that allocate these stimulus allow them to not reach those it was fully intended for. The structure of the systems MUST be dealt with first but it can be done at the same time as a stimulus package if those that legislate want. They allowed the pipes to corrode to begin with cause they like money-drips into their pockets too. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
deg said: is your GDP to Debt ratio still good though? because as long as your economy grows faster than your debt then it will be fine Our debt to GDP is 106% and growing. Our annual deficits are now in excess of 1 trillion dollars, and this year the government has spent nearly four trillion dollars more than it brought in. It blows my mind that people can say the US isn't suffering from high degrees of inflation. They are blinded by bogus economic models created by the same people that support the stimulus bills and inflationary policy. The housing market in my state is up 30% this year alone. My 401K is up 35%. Healthcare and education costs have been spiraling out of control for years. Gas prices are kept low by the government, so they can't be used to judge. In other news, the US Federal reserve has already announced that they intend to pursue higher inflation rates for the next few years. The fed interest rates will be kept at 0% for years to come. Something has to give eventually. I don't think the US govt will be able to tax their way out of their problems. Left wing politicians have tried very hard in this country to regulate our way to a higher standard of living, but their short term successes are piling up long term problems. I would personally vote for halving our military spending and abolishing social security, but I think only the Libertarian party wants to do that and they are a joke. Their best presidential vote record ever was in 2016, they got 3% LOL. |
| Capitalism works fine, until government interferes. That's what is happening with the shutdowns. I'm not a fan of printing money. It causes inflation and devalues my savings. It's a hidden "tax" against wealth. I think the last covid stimulus went to too many people that did not need help. I am one of those people that should NOT get any free money. (thanks for the check Uncle Sam!) I do support relief for those in NEED due to the government caused shutdowns. I would prefer any future money printing be limited and better targeted than the last one. |
  |
| Yep, bailouts are a bitch. We should go with UBI instead. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
BurntJelly said: Capitalism works fine, until government interfere. You're joking right? |
| yes yes, I also hate poor people that guy is an avid Trump supporter, he's completely mad and delusional, thinks that Trumps Covid response was amazing and whatever insane shit he writes you can be pretty sure that he's not joking. |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
I do agree with this. Andrew Yang had a brilliant plan. |
| There is but the singular way for the world to work and that is by following the noble principle of meritocracy. You don't work you don't eat. |
  “The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!” |
Railey2 said: yes yes, I also hate poor people That's not what I'm saying. Everyone (Hopefully) should know by now that the MAJORITY of these stimulus bills go to rich corporations while the American people get bread crumbs. Imagine being an American, and think 1200 measly fucking dollars is a good thing while corporations that have banked BILLIONS continue to get bailed out over and over again. $1200 where I live does NOT even cover one month of rent! These stimulus bills are done to artificially inflate the economy, Trump and the GOP would NEVER agree to any of this if it wasn't for the fact that not doing so would make the INEVITABLE Depression accelerate into action. My position on the matter is the key word "Inevitable". We can NOT escape our fate....and our fate is Inflation, a weak dollar, an economic downturn, and a depression we have not seen since the 1920s. You can NOT print money over and over and over again with zero repercussions. |
ProfessionalNEET said: " next time you get laid off" Next time I get laid of? What are you even on about? This is but the staple example of defamation.Luchse said: There is but the singular way for the world to work and that is by following the noble principle of meritocracy. You don't work you don't eat. Tell me more about how much you love this """meritocracy""" next time you get laid off from your job and can't pay rent. |
LuchseOct 20, 2020 12:12 PM
“The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!” |
--ALEX-- said: that's funny because european countries seem to manage to have proper social safety nets without "printing money".Railey2 said: yes yes, I also hate poor people That's not what I'm saying. Everyone (Hopefully) should know by now that the MAJORITY of these stimulus bills go to rich corporations while the American people get bread crumbs. Imagine being an American, and think 1200 measly fucking dollars is a good thing while corporations that have banked BILLIONS continue to get bailed out over and over again. $1200 where I live does NOT even cover one month of rent! These stimulus bills are done to artificially inflate the economy, Trump and the GOP would NEVER agree to any of this if it wasn't for the fact that not doing so would make the INEVITABLE Depression accelerate into action. My position on the matter is the key word "Inevitable". We can NOT escape our fate....and our fate is Inflation, a weak dollar, an economic downturn, and a depression we have not seen since the 1920s. You can NOT print money over and over and over again with zero repercussions. There are other sources of income for governments, like taxpayer money, which are usually used for welfare programs. You don't need to go full braindead and print money until you get a hyperinflation to support the poor, not sure why you believe that? |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
ProfessionalNEET said: Edit: I ain't getting banned again.Luchse said: " next time you get laid off" Next time I get laid of? What are you even on about? This is but the staple example of defamation. |
LuchseOct 20, 2020 2:43 PM
“The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!” |
| Yeah guy, totally undoable to help your people in their time of need. Now only 2.5 months to go before we can send another annual $3.8 billion to Israel! |
 |
| At this point, we're just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic anyway. They should just print $50 trillion more and push minimum wage to $150/hour. Everyone should be making $300k/year. We should make everyone a millionaire. What could possibly go wrong? If you don’t support this you hate poor people.  |
 “There is great satisfaction in fighting for the sake of gaining power, but it’s joyless to fight for the sake of maintaining it.” – Reinhard Von Lohengramm |
| Some mega corporations profited the fuck out of the pandemic right? Just tax them lmao, they're preying on the downtrodden at a dire time they can handle some taxes. And if you cut from your oh-so-dear military budget a bit (which I should add is bigger than the budgets of the next 10 nations in line combined) you'd be fine. See, no need to throw the poor under the bus. |
 |
| It seems several people either misunderstood my statement or took it out of context, I will clarify: BurntJelly said: Capitalism works fine, until government interferes. That's what is happening with the shutdowns. The "interference" I am referring to here is the artificial shutting down of the economy by the government. I am not talking about general regulation. Not joking. I hope my meaning has been clarified sufficiently for you. Railey2 said: I'm sorry you feel that way about poor people.yes yes, I also hate poor people that guy is an avid Trump supporter, he's completely mad and delusional, thinks that Trumps Covid response was amazing and whatever insane shit he writes you can be pretty sure that he's not joking. I assume your post means you disagree with my statement. I'm not sure how insulting me is a counter argument to what I said. Should I just assume you are trolling rather than participating in the discussion? ProfessionalNEET said: I hope I have clarified my statement sufficiently for you as well.BurntJelly said: Capitalism works fine, until government interferes. >Implying that capitalism has ever not had government interference |
|
| @BurntJelly I don't argue with people who think that the sky is green. I laugh about them and move on. The belief that unregulated capitalism will benefit the consumer instead of the people who aim to exploit it (capitalists!), is so ridiculously mad it needs no further refutation. Look up, the sky is blue. Wow. Also haha, you're brainwashed. |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
--ALEX-- said: This is a mostly opinionated thread based on the follow issue: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/13/coronavirus-stimulus-mcconnell-plans-relief-vote-pelosi-slams-trump.html Right now we are in a tug of war for the NEXT Stimulus package...another round of Stimulus checks to Americans, more PPP, more Unemployment benefits. Both sides hate each other and thus the chances of anything getting passed is minimal. Blah, blah, blah....that's boring. Here's what I'm more interested in discussing... Should the U.S even be doing all of this? We are literally creating money out of thin air AGAIN...how much trillions of dollars have we pumped into the economy by now? 6 Trillion? 7 Trillion? What's another 2 Trillion, right? Except Economics 101 teaches us precisely what will occur....INFLATION. In fact DEEP INFLATION is what we will eventually have as we continue to "stimulate" the economy by literally typing zeros. Whatever happened to allowing the Market to dictate who goes out of business and who will survive? For fucks sake....what happened to Capitalism?! Discuss. I have found that the only time politicians care about the debt is when money is being spent on things they don't want. For example democrats will claim we don't have the money for a border wall and the current size of our military. While republicans will claim we don't have the money for socialized medicine, social security and free college for everyone. But democrats want socialized medicine, free college and free housing for everyone including illegals regardless of the costs to tax payers.While republicans want to give away our tax dollars in the form of military and financial aid to other countries, and involve us in who knows how many wars regardless of the costs to tax payers. As for why the next round stimulus relief won't pass it is because democrats keep putting in poison pill legislation in it. Like shit for illegal aliens, global warming and other nonsense in it.It isn't because both sides hate each other. Which I suppose works out for those who don't want another stimulus relief plan. |
More topics from this board
Sticky: » The Current Events Board Will Be Closed on Friday JST ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - Aug 2, 2021 |
272 |
by traed
»»
Aug 5, 2021 5:56 PM |
|
» Third shot of Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine offers big increase in antibody levels: study ( 1 2 )Desolated - Jul 30, 2021 |
50 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:24 PM |
|
» Western vaccine producers engage in shameless profiteering while poorer countries are supplied mainly by China.Desolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
1 |
by Bourmegar
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:23 PM |
|
» NLRB officer says Amazon violated US labor lawDesolated - Aug 3, 2021 |
17 |
by kitsune0
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:41 PM |
|
» China Backs Cuba in Saying US Should Apply Sanctions To ItselfDesolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
10 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:36 PM |