| In the last 2-3 years, I began to notice that Western fandom is becoming more and more politically obsessed every year. As a psychologist, I understand very well about things like cultural or social differences, but I just don't understand why every second show should necessarily be judged in terms of American politics and lifestyle. People ignore the whole peculiarity of the Japanese attitude towards gender, demanding that all otokonoko be considered transsexual characters, try to turn any action with a female lead into a feminist preaching, find references to the Holocaust in fantasy grimdark like Goblin Slayer and so on. Not to mention, politics is increasingly being used as a loophole in in-fandom controversy. For example, I constantly see people refer to feminism as a weird excuse for wanting more all-female titles (it won't be a problem for you to find serious articles that find feminist representation in shows like K-ON! or Love Live) or defending yuri ships. So why is this happening? Is Western society itself obsessed with politics? Or is it some specific trend in the Western fandom? Why? |
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| I feel like people want to sound smart and convince others that what they are watching is "serious and "deep" so they just make it political even if is just mindless entertainment. |
| I won't participate since I have little to contribute to this discussion. But I noticed this as an overall western internet people trend, rather than something circumscribed to the limited circle of western anime consumers. |
Shoko664 said: I feel like people want to sound smart and convince others that what they are watching is "serious and "deep" so they just make it political even if is just mindless entertainment. Well, I always thought that people in the West somehow feel ashamed to say "I love moe girls", so they constantly ignore the fact that shows like CGDCT are male-oriented or male-made. For example, I remember how one dude on youtube explained long and tediously that K-ON! it's a very feminist show about "female empowerment" because it "puts women at the center of the story and doesn't waste time on romance with guys". Accordingly, the fact that there were many women in the K-ON! stuff was interpreted by him as that the franchise was created by women for women. |
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| idk man I stay away from twitter and crappy entertainment websites like cbr so I haven't noticed any of that apart from the occasional twitter screencap thread on /a/. is it really that bad? |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| It's something of the opposite. Western fandom isn't politically obsessed but politics in the Western culture try to include (and even create) views and beliefs in people that work in their own favor. People are, just like every time in history, simple victims who are being manipulated. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to go all "Government bad, gib freedom" and sh*t - it's just how it is. |
| Well, wherever there are forums, you are bound to see some references or discussions about politics. Maybe people feel special and think they can earn brownie points among their peers if they push their unwanted political ideas onto other people "in the name of social justice" or whatever, kinda like what a lot of people on the internet (Twitter especially). A lot of the complaining I see online comes from a very fringe group of very active and loud minority of people (mainly those who lean quite far/hard to the left) who, unfortunately, attract more attention than they actually should. When it comes to anime or manga, they claim everything is problematic and sexist and oppressive and has many references to certain historic events, attacking the many fans who defend anime by calling them by all sorts of slurs. They even go as far as to advocate for censorship and/or the cancelling of said series, or demand and put forth certain changes otherwise they'll make threats to the author/studio (MHA is the best example of this). I'm sure you saw or heard about the few manga series that just got banned here in Australia because the politician who did so thinks that "if it helps one child from being sexually abused, it is one child we have saved." (ridiculous, right?) Because of the culture differences between Japan and everyone else, there is no doubt that certain issues and topics will be talked about and debated. |
RobertBobert said: People ignore the whole peculiarity of the Japanese attitude towards gender, demanding that all otokonoko be considered transsexual characters, try to turn any action with a female lead into a feminist preaching, find references to the Holocaust in fantasy grimdark like Goblin Slayer and so on. Not to mention, politics is increasingly being used as a loophole in in-fandom controversy. For example, I constantly see people refer to feminism as a weird excuse for wanting more all-female titles (it won't be a problem for you to find serious articles that find feminist representation in shows like K-ON! or Love Live) or defending yuri ships. I have no idea what this tirade is or what you think politics means. You're not making sense. |
| @Boutroux So, are you saying that when people call any action's female lead a "feminist statement" or hate Shield Hero for the very idea that a woman can lie about rape is not politics? Theo1899 said: idk man I stay away from twitter and crappy entertainment websites like cbr so I haven't noticed any of that apart from the occasional twitter screencap thread on /a/. is it really that bad? Well, sometimes it's like reading Kotaku about games. For example, ANN officially threatens to remove your comments if your point of view is not aligned with the left, or passionately hate the show just because it uses Femme Fatal as its main villain because it's "slut-shaming". @_cjessop19_ Oh, I perfectly understand what you mean. In Russia in recent years, there are a lot of pretentious wannabe elitists who love to tell everyone how much they hate fanservice and how bad modern overhype shows like Kimentsu no Yaiba are. Ironically, they are also obsessed with classic 90s and 00s anime, denying that such shows can be overrated or mainstream. |
RobertBobertJul 27, 2020 3:49 AM
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RobertBobert said: In the last 2-3 years, I began to notice that Western fandom is becoming more and more politically obsessed every year. As a psychologist, I understand very well about things like cultural or social differences, but I just don't understand why every second show should necessarily be judged in terms of American politics and lifestyle. People ignore the whole peculiarity of the Japanese attitude towards gender, demanding that all otokonoko be considered transsexual characters, try to turn any action with a female lead into a feminist preaching, find references to the Holocaust in fantasy grimdark like Goblin Slayer and so on. Not to mention, politics is increasingly being used as a loophole in in-fandom controversy. For example, I constantly see people refer to feminism as a weird excuse for wanting more all-female titles (it won't be a problem for you to find serious articles that find feminist representation in shows like K-ON! or Love Live) or defending yuri ships. So why is this happening? Is Western society itself obsessed with politics? Or is it some specific trend in the Western fandom? Why? Honestly I don't see that at all. Are there extreme sjw that try to shove transsexuality and feminism into anything anime ? Sure But I do think that the vast majority of anime fans just takes female leads as female leads and just takes traps as Humor . I don't see people trying to make anime political at all. And that is something I love about anime. Anime just has strong female leads for the sake of storytelling. Meanwhile captn marvelSue is trying really hard to push a political message and people really dislike it for that. I like anime because it doesn't obsess with politics. And I don't see the community doing it either tbh |
CuteAssTiger said: RobertBobert said: In the last 2-3 years, I began to notice that Western fandom is becoming more and more politically obsessed every year. As a psychologist, I understand very well about things like cultural or social differences, but I just don't understand why every second show should necessarily be judged in terms of American politics and lifestyle. People ignore the whole peculiarity of the Japanese attitude towards gender, demanding that all otokonoko be considered transsexual characters, try to turn any action with a female lead into a feminist preaching, find references to the Holocaust in fantasy grimdark like Goblin Slayer and so on. Not to mention, politics is increasingly being used as a loophole in in-fandom controversy. For example, I constantly see people refer to feminism as a weird excuse for wanting more all-female titles (it won't be a problem for you to find serious articles that find feminist representation in shows like K-ON! or Love Live) or defending yuri ships. So why is this happening? Is Western society itself obsessed with politics? Or is it some specific trend in the Western fandom? Why? Honestly I don't see that at all. Are there extreme sjw that try to shove transsexuality and feminism into anything anime ? Sure But I do think that the vast majority of anime fans just takes female leads as female leads and just takes traps as Humor . I don't see people trying to make anime political at all. And that is something I love about anime. Anime just has strong female leads for the sake of storytelling. Meanwhile captn marvelSue is trying really hard to push a political message and people really dislike it for that. I like anime because it doesn't obsess with politics. And I don't see the community doing it either tbh Maybe I'm just meeting the wrong people in the wrong places. However, I believe that in the last 5-10 years, the anime community has really become more contentious. In the 00s, a person who would try to turn shipping into a religious war or spend hours complaining about homophobia in Ranma would obviously be laughed at. But in our time, all this is not just accepted, but even considered a normal part of community life. |
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| I think that's just the way it is when politics becomes something easy to identify. I have a theory that one of the reasons why there were fewer fights in the past is that the left did not support LGBTS rights as strongly. Although they do not agree on how to solve social problems, the left and the right agree that sexism, rascism, ableism and so on are problens. Almost no one says (or said in like a pretty good time) "Black people should keep their lifestyle away from my white children" and so no one felt outraged. Now, due to LGBT rigths being in the front of the debate, both sides of the spectrum have extremely deep problems with the opposite position, and thanks to the outrage that creates they dive deep in theory and start to figth even about problems that they didn't care enogh to figth about in the past. The division grow so big that now lefties and most liberals will refuse to watch things like Shild Hero (Because it is about a man that is falsily acused of rape, and just the tough of some one somewere thinking "Heh, females are so privileged now days, fuck those feminist am'I rigth?" makes them shiver) while consevatives can't accept the fact that Lily is what we would call a trans girl (Because the tough of a non-trans person being pressioned (like "Hey, you are a little feminine, are u SURE you aren't a girl? why not? You must be suffering of internalized hate them!") to consider their gender idntity and transition also makes them shiver). In the end, even tho I'm as far left as we go, I think it is okay to not watch those animes (the ones where you can see a little bit of rigth and left leaning feelings) if you don't like them, but we should clean our eyes and not assume that everyone that enjoy those are obligatorily the ones that we think are "the WORSE". But anyways, it is not like what I said really matters that much, some one could just walk by and say "Hey, you are a fucking monster, how can you say that this specific anime character do represent that thing? You are shoving you agenda where it does not belong!" and even while I belive that person would be wrong there is no way of knowing 100% Anyways, I let my head go a little crazy and all over the place, what I'm trying to say / TL,DR is that by many reason we became polirized, and it is important to try to be nice with people who you disagree with. |
N04L1TYJul 27, 2020 4:36 AM
| heh. |
feminist representation in Love Live? Whoever the fuck said that... It's not just anime though, in the past 2-4 years U.S. politics has really gone down the shitter. I wasn't much of a political guy whatsoever, but never before have I seen people become such zombies into getting ahead of each other, almost like watching team sports. Sometimes I wonder if it was really always this bad and often unproductive. As someone who writes and often converses with other writers (& professional writers), I'd say that it is very often that people find things in literature and any other form of works that the author did not intend, but is either lauded, criticized, or generally recognized for. I'll also say that majorly in the west, any form of political message included in a work has greatly increased in the timespan as well. Meh. Unless an anime inherently has political overtones, such as the World Government in One Piece, I don't get all the hype. |
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| @ChartTopper60 There are no guys even in the role of side characters, the plot is focused on the life and development of female characters, some queerbaiting. In their eyes, this is enough to find feminist messages. I remember how Anime Feminist alluding to that girls are not sexualized as proof of this, which was funny, because the authors, by their own admission, removed the early ecchi element to make the franchise more gender neutral as its popularity with women grew. |
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RobertBobert said: CuteAssTiger said: Honestly I don't see that at all. Are there extreme sjw that try to shove transsexuality and feminism into anything anime ? Sure But I do think that the vast majority of anime fans just takes female leads as female leads and just takes traps as Humor . I don't see people trying to make anime political at all. And that is something I love about anime. Anime just has strong female leads for the sake of storytelling. Meanwhile captn marvelSue is trying really hard to push a political message and people really dislike it for that. I like anime because it doesn't obsess with politics. And I don't see the community doing it either tbh Maybe I'm just meeting the wrong people in the wrong places. However, I believe that in the last 5-10 years, the anime community has really become more contentious. In the 00s, a person who would try to turn shipping into a religious war or spend hours complaining about homophobia in Ranma would obviously be laughed at. But in our time, all this is not just accepted, but even considered a normal part of community life. i dont see how shipping wars fit into that picture tbh. people discuss their favorite ships all the time since forever projecting homophobia and racism onto everything on the other hand . i would assume that is due to how SJW topics like that have been become a thing in general . i dont think it is the anime community in particular. its everywhere like that. recently there was drama in the gaming community because people said nintendo is racist because their new smash bros dlc character is not black . and honestly people like this are still getting laughted at |
CuteAssTiger said: RobertBobert said: Maybe I'm just meeting the wrong people in the wrong places. However, I believe that in the last 5-10 years, the anime community has really become more contentious. In the 00s, a person who would try to turn shipping into a religious war or spend hours complaining about homophobia in Ranma would obviously be laughed at. But in our time, all this is not just accepted, but even considered a normal part of community life. i dont see how shipping wars fit into that picture tbh. people discuss their favorite ships all the time since forever projecting homophobia and racism onto everything on the other hand . i would assume that is due to how SJW topics like that have been become a thing in general . i dont think it is the anime community in particular. its everywhere like that. recently there was drama in the gaming community because people said nintendo is racist because their new smash bros dlc character is not black . and honestly people like this are still getting laughted at My point is that if in 00s shipping was a entertainment, now it's a hot blame war, especially when it comes to straight vs gay. For example, people accuse you of erasing bi people just because you refuse to consider a canonically straight character a potential bisexual because bisexuals exist. Classic. I remember Animal Crossing's authors refuted a misunderstanding due to too much liberties in English translation and people began to accuse them of erasing gay people. American translators deliberately made the translation too ambiguous to bait people, but of course Nintendo is to blame, lol. |
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| @RobertBobert I can't believe they think that, though. So I'm assuming that they believe anime is inherently sexual and that Love Live is some sort of messiah against that? Their belief also assumes that (as you had pointed out before) CGDCT or mostly girls series in any media (Touhou, Senran Kagura, etc.) by nature are also a pro-feminist message. Anyway, that kind of stretch can't work for many more reasons than one. Also, while early Love Live was way more ecchi, there are still to this day some borderline (or genuine) ecchi moments... but don't let them know! |
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ChartTopper60 said: @RobertBobert I can't believe they think that, though. So I'm assuming that they believe anime is inherently sexual and that Love Live is some sort of messiah against that? Their belief also assumes that (as you had pointed out before) CGDCT or mostly girls series in any media (Touhou, Senran Kagura, etc.) by nature are also a pro-feminist message. Anyway, that kind of stretch can't work for many more reasons than one. Also, while early Love Live was way more ecchi, there are still to this day some borderline (or genuine) ecchi moments... but don't let them know! They really hate the idea that such franchises are male-focused, mostly targeting women because of their big commercial opportunities. Some of them even reject the idea that Shonen Jump is a boys' magazine, as the guys love bait fujoshi and the brand is very popular with these girls. But for some reason they don't want to start considering Sailor Moon gender neutral because of all this number of male yuri shippers, lol. |
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ChartTopper60 said: Anyway, that kind of stretch can't work for many more reasons than one. Could you elaborate on that? ChartTopper60 said: Also, while early Love Live was way more ecchi, there are still to this day some borderline (or genuine) ecchi moments... but don't let them know! And here I am, a feminist that is actually okay with ecchi. Do you belive all feminists are like "Ecchi bad!"? If no, them I'm like, totally wharever, but it would make more sense if you said "some" |
| heh. |
RobertBobert said: @Boutroux So, are you saying that when people call any action's female lead a "feminist statement" or hate Shield Hero for the very idea that a woman can lie about rape is not politics. Okay, so more of the same 'people said this and people said that' from before and still no explanation of what the supposed politics is exactly. |
| Ah, I wanted to talk about this topic since a long time but I didn't post it cause I thought I would've been called all kinds of names starting from misogynist to more. The simple answer is because the Western community is cancer. Everything they are able to get their hands on, they ruin it. They are more than cancer. They are far worse. Let me give you an example. When Tokyo Ghoul manga was still publishing, there was a sex scene between the MC and another girl. Lots of TG readers were very mad and they ended up sending death threats to the author saying stuff like he was homophobic and shit. It's outrageous, these people are a threat to anime. For many years they have tried to shut down hentai and anime both for sexualizing minors and showing lack of representation against women. Which was completely dumb. I can't believe these people. Another example is how Japanese author is almost suffering from depression after how he got sent so many death threats for some of the most stupid reasons ever. We should take a stand against these people. I've lost count of how many people I've seen saying that Naruto author hates women and how they watched Naruto while growing up and they didn't find any strong female characters they could relate to. None of those idiots know that Naruto is Shounen and it's meant to focus on the male characters more than the female characters. Western entertainment is already ruined by this political BS, movies, TV shows, games and cartoons, all of them. That's why some people choose anime as their medium. So to manipulate those people they also might move onto anime. We anime fans should actually be aware of this shit but it's useless, no one is going do anything. So now all we can do is put our hands together and pray that Japan doesn't let these cancer enter in Japan's culture. Japan has been successful at not giving a f* about what anyone says all these years, but who know how long will they be able to keep that attitude. |
 I said keep your hands on the table |
Bob-o-Dominador said: ChartTopper60 said: Anyway, that kind of stretch can't work for many more reasons than one. Could you elaborate on that? ChartTopper60 said: Also, while early Love Live was way more ecchi, there are still to this day some borderline (or genuine) ecchi moments... but don't let them know! And here I am, a feminist that is actually okay with ecchi. Do you belive all feminists are like "Ecchi bad!"? If no, them I'm like, totally wharever, but it would make more sense if you said "some" absolutely not lol. I'm only talking about the people who came to the assessment that it is. Some of my reasoning is that 1. there are so many anime that are female-centric. If a female-centric anime is inherently pro-feminist, why would anything sexual prevent that? 2. If an anime has male focus, can a side female character not have the pro-message? 3. i forgot maybe my thinking was flawed, partially or complete. I'm not saying that they aren't or cannot be pro-feminist, or that any sort of anime can't give someone a positive message, because it definitely can. I'm saying that there would have to be the exception to the rule. when it comes to what people personally find themselves in an anime, and not otherwise, I realized that's totally fine and never thought to that extent. lol |
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| What you are talking about is moralism, it is politics that lack or actively hinder a vision for the future. Rather politics is about how society should run, as in how should the system function. More generally politics is about the ability to influence the system one participates in, to make claims of how things should work, compared to how they currently work. Of course anime is political, art is political, because reality can only be experienced through fiction. So the political questions one should ask is not about simple representation, but do the system work? Does it solve poverty? Do it bring justice? Does it change people's everyday life for the better? And what hinders true change from happening? |
Boutroux said: RobertBobert said: @Boutroux So, are you saying that when people call any action's female lead a "feminist statement" or hate Shield Hero for the very idea that a woman can lie about rape is not politics. Okay, so more of the same 'people said this and people said that' from before and still no explanation of what the supposed politics is exactly. You don't know what politics is? Really? |
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Boutroux said: RobertBobert said: @Boutroux So, are you saying that when people call any action's female lead a "feminist statement" or hate Shield Hero for the very idea that a woman can lie about rape is not politics. Okay, so more of the same 'people said this and people said that' from before and still no explanation of what the supposed politics is exactly. I feel like your comment history might be one possible answer for that. It seems a bit rude to talk more about politics than anime. |
Safeanew said: What you are talking about is moralism, it is politics that lack or actively hinder a vision for the future. Rather politics is about how society should run, as in how should the system function. More generally politics is about the ability to influence the system one participates in, to make claims of how things should work, compared to how they currently work. Of course anime is political, art is political, because reality can only be experienced through fiction. So the political questions one should ask is not about simple representation, but do the system work? Does it solve poverty? Do it bring justice? Does it change people's everyday life for the better? And what hinders true change from happening? Then why is it considered disrespectful in the anime industry to discuss politics? To the extent that one director was bullied just because he asked his followers on Twitter to vote against the new law. |
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-Rica- said: Boutroux said: Okay, so more of the same 'people said this and people said that' from before and still no explanation of what the supposed politics is exactly. I feel like your comment history might be one possible answer for that. It seems a bit rude to talk more about politics than anime. Yeah, you get what I mean. I am not opposed to discussing social issues in general. But when anime becomes another arena for culture wars or political debate, it's just annoying. |
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RobertBobert said: Safeanew said: What you are talking about is moralism, it is politics that lack or actively hinder a vision for the future. Rather politics is about how society should run, as in how should the system function. More generally politics is about the ability to influence the system one participates in, to make claims of how things should work, compared to how they currently work. Of course anime is political, art is political, because reality can only be experienced through fiction. So the political questions one should ask is not about simple representation, but do the system work? Does it solve poverty? Do it bring justice? Does it change people's everyday life for the better? And what hinders true change from happening? Then why is it considered disrespectful in the anime industry to discuss politics? To the extent that one director was bullied just because he asked his followers on Twitter to vote against the new law. Anti-politics is the same as political correctness, a moralism that do not want anything to change, as in for example improved working conditions for staff in the industry that the anti-politics tries to hinder. |
RobertBobert said: -Rica- said: I feel like your comment history might be one possible answer for that. It seems a bit rude to talk more about politics than anime. Yeah, you get what I mean. I am not opposed to discussing social issues in general. But when anime becomes another arena for culture wars or political debate, it's just annoying. I'm a minority person myself and so I see a lot of politics on a daily basis already. It's pretty sad because it hasn't always been this way. Politics have always mattered, for some groups a bit more so than others, but this absolute obsession with it and it getting into literally everything is really exhausting and just rude. I agree. |
| @Arin-san Wait what? Did people hate TG and called the author a homophobe because the canon straight characters got sex and weren't "turned" gay to satisfy their ship fantasies? I've seen similar reactions to Eupho on Twitter, but I thought it was rare. |
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Safeanew said: RobertBobert said: Then why is it considered disrespectful in the anime industry to discuss politics? To the extent that one director was bullied just because he asked his followers on Twitter to vote against the new law. Anti-politics is the same as political correctness, a moralism that do not want anything to change, as in for example improved working conditions for staff in the industry that the anti-politics tries to hinder. Well, I think it's okay to discuss politics when you have a show like Carole and Tuesday. Yes, I still hate the politicization of this anime, but it at least makes sense for the discussion. But when ANN tries to hype the appearance of a gender-uncomfortable male character in PrettyCure by declaring the cute male crossdresser in a girly show a "powerful trans statement", it sounds like trolling. |
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ChartTopper60 said: Absolutely not lol. I'm only talking about the people who came to the assessment that it is. Some of my reasoning is that 1. there are so many anime that are female-centric. If a female-centric anime is inherently pro-feminist, why would anything sexual prevent that? 2. If an anime has male focus, can a side female character not have the pro-message? 3. i forgotl Yeah, I'm also confused about how people get that idea in their's heads. maybe my thinking was flawed, partially or complete. I'm not saying that they aren't or cannot be pro-feminist, or that any sort of anime can't give someone a positive message, because it definitely can. I'm saying that there would have to be the exception to the rule. when it comes to what people personally find themselves in an anime, and not otherwise, I realized that's totally fine and never thought to that extent. lol I'm not totally sure of what you tried to say there lol But doing my best to understand your point, I think what you are saying is "Anime like love live aren't necessary feminist for having only girls and also aren't sexist for having ecchi. It was also not made with the goal of pushing feminism, since it only is pushing for geting the most of man and woman alike. So, love live and many like it weren't made with any politcs in mind, even tho people migth get knowgle out of it that end ups informing theirs political opnions." Is that rigth? |
N04L1TYJul 27, 2020 5:45 AM
| heh. |
Bob-o-Dominador said: ChartTopper60 said: Absolutely not lol. I'm only talking about the people who came to the assessment that it is. Some of my reasoning is that 1. there are so many anime that are female-centric. If a female-centric anime is inherently pro-feminist, why would anything sexual prevent that? 2. If an anime has male focus, can a side female character not have the pro-message? 3. i forgotl Yeah, I'm also confused about how people get that idea in their's heads. maybe my thinking was flawed, partially or complete. I'm not saying that they aren't or cannot be pro-feminist, or that any sort of anime can't give someone a positive message, because it definitely can. I'm saying that there would have to be the exception to the rule. when it comes to what people personally find themselves in an anime, and not otherwise, I realized that's totally fine and never thought to that extent. lol I'm not totally sure of what you tried to say there lol But doing my best to understand your point, I think what you are saying is "Anime like love live aren't necessary feminist for having only girls and also aren't sexist for having ecchi. It was also not made with the goal of pushing feminism, since it only is pushing for geting the most of man and woman alike" Is that rigth? yes you're right about what I said. Basically I was trying to say "now that I think about it, even though while they aren't necessarily feminist, it would be completely wrong if I said that a woman couldn't find an empowerment message from it. Because of that, I admit that my preconceived notions were probably wrong or misguided." |
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Oeufhbpi said: The western progressive voices demand the Japanese not so progressive voices to adhere to their values and ideals. The whole thing is bound to get political I have noticed this too and it's really confusing. Isn't that the same kind of colonialism they are usually against? Telling people of other cultures, ethnicities and countries what they should do? |
RobertBobert said: @Arin-san Wait what? Did people hate TG and called the author a homophobe because the canon straight characters got sex and weren't "turned" gay to satisfy their ship fantasies? I've seen similar reactions to Eupho on Twitter, but I thought it was rare. Yup, apparently they have all shipped the male MC with another male character on their mind. So they were mad when they found out that the MC wasn't gay, and they ended up sending death threats to author saying how he's a homophobe and he should've made the MC gay as it is a disrespect to the LGBT community. I know that all this sounds stupid but it's true. A lot of people even burned down their copies of TG and uploading these videos on Twitter, the breeding ground of toxicity. Here is an article- ‘Tokyo Ghoul’ Manga Fans Outraged by Straight Main Characters, Accuse Creator of Homophobia |
I said keep your hands on the table |
RobertBobert said: Safeanew said: Anti-politics is the same as political correctness, a moralism that do not want anything to change, as in for example improved working conditions for staff in the industry that the anti-politics tries to hinder. Well, I think it's okay to discuss politics when you have a show like Carole and Tuesday. Yes, I still hate the politicization of this anime, but it at least makes sense for the discussion. But when ANN tries to hype the appearance of a gender-uncomfortable male character in PrettyCure by declaring the cute male crossdresser in a girly show a "powerful trans statement", it sounds like trolling. Yes in a sense it is trolling, or just someone that have no common sense. More generally this is the effect of political correctness actively hinder peoples ability to read between the lines. That is why the best way to combat political correctness is manners, as in being able to read between the lines and act in a way appropriate to the context, manners is the ability to make the moralisms sociopathy clear to see. |
Oeufhbpi said: The western progressive voices demand the Japanese not so progressive voices to adhere to their values and ideals. The whole thing is bound to get political I have already noticed this. I just hope that Japan holds their grounds just like they did all these years. Sadly, a lot of Western influences has affected Japan, I just hope that anime isn't affected by this as well. Japan is well known for maintaining their old cultures and traditions, so I still have hope that they won't give in. |
I said keep your hands on the table |
RobertBobert said: You don't know what politics is? Really? -Rica- said: I feel like your comment history might be one possible answer for that. It seems a bit rude to talk more about politics than anime. RobertBobert said: Yeah, you get what I mean. I am not opposed to discussing social issues in general. But when anime becomes another arena for culture wars or political debate, it's just annoying. If you ask @RobertBobert and @-Rica- what they mean by politics, they won't explain it, they'll simply accuse you (and others) of it. I'm pretty sure you can't have a sensible discussion about subject matter you can't even articulate. |
Oeufhbpi said: Arin-san said: I have already noticed this. I just hope that Japan holds their grounds just like they did all these years. Sadly, a lot of Western influences has affected Japan, I just hope that anime isn't affected by this as well. Japan is well known for maintaining their old cultures and traditions, so I still have hope that they won't give in. Oh they will give in whether you like it or not. You can cry about it but this is just how it is. Also see my earlier response #41 for a more complete understanding of what I’m saying. I mean they haven't gave in until now, so we can't estimate a time for when they will give in. They do like Western lifestyle and such, as they say, grass always looks greener on the other side, but they aren't totally on equal footing with Western political ideologies. And just like I said, unlike others they value their tradition, more than anything, so we can only hope that it won't happen. As for the future, none of us can foresee the future, so lets put a cap on assumptions. |
I said keep your hands on the table |
ChartTopper60 said: yes you're right about what I said. Basically I was trying to say "now that I think about it, even though while they aren't necessarily feminist, it would be completely wrong if I said that a woman couldn't find an empowerment message from it. Because of that, I admit that my preconceived notions were probably wrong or misguided." I'm totally okay with that take, the only think that I would like to say is that if some one think in a binary way, like "Feminist is every thing that don't say female are all like x and males are always like y" them I see how a show that wasn't even trying to be it would end up being, but binary is almost always a bad way of looking categorizing things. I would run with something like this: Feminist shows: When the characters face sexism and confront it Progresive shows: When most characters don't fall into gender roles QUO shows: When most characters fall into gender roles Sexist shows: When characters engage whit sexism This way even tho we can say we see the influence of feminism had in the show (As in, "this show would never be made in 1924!") it does represent better the politcs of the writers. |
N04L1TYJul 27, 2020 6:19 AM
| heh. |
-Rica- said: Oeufhbpi said: The western progressive voices demand the Japanese not so progressive voices to adhere to their values and ideals. The whole thing is bound to get political I have noticed this too and it's really confusing. Isn't that the same kind of colonialism they are usually against? Telling people of other cultures, ethnicities and countries what they should do? I think that this is quite a real revival of the White Man's Burden, only now with progressive slogans instead of imperialist ones. But when you tell them about it, they just quote a random Japanese feminist and say, "See? Japanese / Japanese women count just like us!" -Rica- said: RobertBobert said: Yeah, you get what I mean. I am not opposed to discussing social issues in general. But when anime becomes another arena for culture wars or political debate, it's just annoying. I'm a minority person myself and so I see a lot of politics on a daily basis already. It's pretty sad because it hasn't always been this way. Politics have always mattered, for some groups a bit more so than others, but this absolute obsession with it and it getting into literally everything is really exhausting and just rude. I agree. I think the problem is that society perceives social issues as a battlefield instead of making friends and becoming one. I have the blood of 4-5 nations, I have a certain sexuality, gender identity, my skin color and social class. If I constantly make a big deal out of each of these differences abd fighting with everyone over it, I will simply go crazy. Arin-san said: RobertBobert said: @Arin-san Wait what? Did people hate TG and called the author a homophobe because the canon straight characters got sex and weren't "turned" gay to satisfy their ship fantasies? I've seen similar reactions to Eupho on Twitter, but I thought it was rare. Yup, apparently they have all shipped the male MC with another male character on their mind. So they were mad when they found out that the MC wasn't gay, and they ended up sending death threats to author saying how he's a homophobe and he should've made the MC gay as it is a disrespect to the LGBT community. I know that all this sounds stupid but it's true. A lot of people even burned down their copies of TG and uploading these videos on Twitter, the breeding ground of toxicity. Here is an article- ‘Tokyo Ghoul’ Manga Fans Outraged by Straight Main Characters, Accuse Creator of Homophobia Oh my God. This is reminiscent of a scandal in Russia, where the author accused the Japanese of pedophilia, because in one show a mother was taking a bath with her little son. Interpretations are so interpretations. |
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| That's just how westerners are. Politics this. Politics that. Trying to fit politics into everything. |
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| Unfortunately, in most cases the same people who are behind these movements that stands for equality, LGBTQ+ rights, female power and other political correct or SJW agendas, are the most hypocritical and attention/fame hungry individual in the world. They usually support these ideas just to be perceived by the public or by their close minded groups/friends as morally superior and thus a "better" person. They don't believe what they say, the only think they care is they're image. At the same time, these group of people will try to do anything to end your career or even you as as a member of society if you don't agree 100% with they're point of view. This behavior is just vial and despicable under any circumstances. The worst part is that they're the most vocal bunch in the entire world, dedicating their entire existence on twitter complaining and living a sad life of constant victimhood. The bright side for us, is that Japan has for the vast part, a different outlook on this, and they just ignore all this BS that's happening in US and on some extend in Europe, who are destroying with their own hands all the media. |
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