traed said: Raverz said: You think so? I meant it in the way of refusing to waste food. Probably should have worded that better lol. Thanks tho Pickiness usually implies being specific about the taste and exact food you want. The later does imply not being wastful but again this still can also be applied to the Buddhist approach of vegetarianism where they aren't strict about it and also can apply to a low level freeganism which would be removing the anticonsumerist stance of it though which is a big part of freeganism. Huh really? Never knew that. I'm not specific on the exact food I want so I suppose I defined being "Picky" like that. Well I learned something new now, thanks lmao. ^^ |
| "The world is not beautiful, therefore it is." -Kino's Journey |
| I eat meat because it gets put on my plate. Nothing I can do about it, and I'd rather not avoid food I like when it's available. |
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| Simple, I like the taste. Nothing more, nothing less. Pretty much why I eat any food. |
Peaceful_Critic said: _cotillion said: I agree with your last point, I really don't see what issue people have with people eating animals, as they don't have issues with animals eating other animals. We are all part of ecosystem. We aren't above it. That's an appeal to nature. Just because animals do it, doesn't mean we should also do the thing. Animals don't live in a society, they do what they need to in order to survive. Humans are above that as we can live effortlessly without the struggle of nature, and therefore, stricter moral concepts apply to us when it wouldn't for animals. That is true and actually a good point. But at the same time, does it necessarily mean that we HAVE to do that. Or that we SHOULD do that. That's why hunting is allowed in certain parts of the world, to curb overpopulation of animals and so on. Because for thousands of years we have been part of that ecosystem where we hunt and kill animals and that system won't just fix itself automatically. With the lack of natural predators and so on, it overpopulation of animals could lead to other problems. Of course, hunting animals out of extinction is stupid as fuck. Seeing as you are just being dismissive, and insulting out of the blue, I'd say somebody's else feelings got hurt.  ^you I addressed that whole CO2 thing whether you want to admit it or not, you just sperged out lmao. You'd rather just dance around the issue and insult than talk it out. |
| i've always been a vegetarian and can't see why people eat meat. but i don't call people out for choosing what to eat and what not to eat because it doesn't really matter OP :) |
| Because it’s tasty no other reason, and if we don’t eat meat who will eat them |
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Illuminatli said: For the last 12 years, I have been a vegetarian. Now I'm asking you guys. Are you really that shallow and do you really want animals to be breeded and killed just for your enjoyment? I'm not trying to guilt-trip you, I just want to know your motivations. I'm sorry but, if i had to hunt an animal in the woods to be able to eat meat, i would. The only difference now is that we cant all go hunting animals in woods anymore can we? U be u, be a vegetarian, but dont start guilt tripping others cause we do what humans have been doing for thousands of years, breeding animal to eat them. Yes i know animals are bred in poor conditions, but atleast the law states that they have to be killed in a humane quick way. (which doesnt always happen, i know) I have no trouble with vegetarians in general, but i do have trouble with people like u, who call others shallow cause we think differently about the world than u do. |
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| I eat chicken (with potatoes/ in soup), because it's tasty. I eat duck (in rice), because it's tasty. Otherwise I eat any other kind of meat, because dad wants to eat meat or because there's nothing better on the menu. Bobby2Hands said: this is so godly, i'm dyinggggBecause meat is delicious. And I'm not a hypocrite about it, if a cow, pig or chicken wants to eat me then I am totally willing to face them in 1 on 1 combat. |
  tysm iva-π’π |
| I eat meat because I do not like the majority of plant based alternatives. I enjoy grilling and smoking meat immensely and I have yet to try a meat alternative that comes remotely close to that flavour profile. So let's not sugarcoat it. I'm not willing to be inconvenienced for this cause i.e. give up something I want for something I feel is inferior to 'save the animals'. That is what it amounts to. That's far from the only thing of course. Since we're on an anime forum we can go there. Animators/mangaka often times suffer from over work, health issues stemming from said over work, and in general being underpaid. Yet I still watch anime and read manga, because at the end of the day those concerns are secondary to my consumption of the product they put out. |
| Meat = happiness |
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Karote said: Still baby raging and providing nothing of value I see. You'd think after 5 posts you'd say something other than "normies" and "arguments". The thing is, we are in a forum and everybody is literally saying the same thing. Can't anyone bother to read/expect the other posts and add at least a little trace of argumentation to theirs instead of being ordinary? Just being honest, I say "douchbag", because it's kind of annoying how normie and ordinary people tend to be. Also meat is not a hobbie, it's a much more delicate subject than "anime". And even so, it would feel ordinary if people only said that, right? Even though I don't expect that happening in an anime forum why they like anime, I would expect weebs to be expressing like Quora posters. But yeah, what can I do? People like being ordinary. I expected more from MAL users. Imagine thinking a discussion about what people like is argumentative. You can argue the stated opinions, but yeah, all you did was just point out what's obvious. So much for calling other people normies. |
| I eat meat because I dont really care about animal suffering and just like the taste of meat and Im ok with being seen as immoral for that. I eat basically almost no green because it upsets my stomach. I dont really see any difference personally also when it comes to eating plant life or animal life since its a living thing all the same to me of it being a organism trying to reproduce its genetic code But I remember seeing years ago that they were trying to create meat with cell cloning so to not breed animals just to kill them for food which I hope works out in the future in mass production |
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| For the majority of people it is basically habit. People will give you many different reasons when they are confronted, most of them unreflected or standing on a weak foundation of ethics that they probably wouldn't use to justify other things, but the crux of it is habit. Everyone is also detached from the entire process. They see a prepackaged steak in front of them in the meat isle; they don't experience the process to get it. People in the past would actually feel some guilt when eating an animal because there was proximity. They lived with their animals, so closer relationships were built. That's why, for example, in the Bible it had to be written that they were given dominion of the animals by God; they needed justification. They would also, of course, eat less meat (we eat a gargantuan portion today). All of that is gone now with factory farming. We live in a newer society where the stakes are higher and we should be ruthless with our questioning. They are other beings of this earth with their own experience. We do not live isolated independent existences but have relations embedded with the rest of the environment and universe. The way we view other beings and treat them ultimately extends to our relationship with our socioecology and the rest of the world. The way we do things now is ultimately self destructive. |
MurauJul 14, 2020 7:24 AM
iasuru said: Illuminatli said: You sound like a passive-aggressive meat-eater to me. I'm not saying you're a bad person, but I can tell the overdose of protein of the meat you're consuming has clearly clouded your ability of judgement. I'm not passive-aggressive. I'm aggressive. I'm telling you straight up. I love eating meat because I enjoy seeing animal suffer. Holy shit dude. Lol No one let this guy have a pet... |
| Um... it tastes better than any other foods that's not dessert, and is good for you if cooked correctly. Best source of protein. Hey, IF being Vegan costed the same amount or lower than normal foods, I'd have been one my whole life. You can blame the government on that one... |
| For most it's convenience I assume. Because it's a lot more convenient to not concern yourself with your dietary intake too much. There's a lot to worry about in one's plate (ba dum tss) already in the contemporary world, one wishes not to add one more additional thing to pay mind to. Though it's important to note that reducetarianism is one way to go at it also, if one wishes not to impact their habits to a notable degree. An often overlooked insight is that 2 people who reduce their intake 50% is on average tantamount to one person going vegan. |
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Illuminatli said: For the last 12 years, I have been a vegetarian. Now I'm asking you guys. Why are you still eating meat? Now, it is true that back in the day, in the prehistoric era, it was necessary to eat meat to survive and increase brain capacity. However, that is not the case anymore today. We can get all our nutrients from plant-based products and live a longer life than people who frequently eat (especially red) meat. What is your motivation behind eating meat? Is it the taste? Are you really that shallow and do you really want animals to be breeded and killed just for your enjoyment? I'm not trying to guilt-trip you, I just want to know your motivations. Please enlighten me, and hey, maybe you can even change my mind. Even a vegetarian diet is not a guilt free option. Dairy cows are forcibly impregnated and drugged to continually yield milk. The idea of cows and chickens peacefully frolicking in a green pasture and drinking from fresh meadow springs is just an illusion they try to sell you. They all get slaughtered for their meat eventually, after being forced to do things against their will. So, why are you a vegetarian and not a vegan? Or do you just not care because cheese tastes good? Are you okay with animals being raped? |
SolidusSmokeJul 14, 2020 9:58 AM
| It tastes good, simple as really. Nothing more to it |
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SolidusSmoke said: Illuminatli said: For the last 12 years, I have been a vegetarian. Now I'm asking you guys. Why are you still eating meat? Now, it is true that back in the day, in the prehistoric era, it was necessary to eat meat to survive and increase brain capacity. However, that is not the case anymore today. We can get all our nutrients from plant-based products and live a longer life than people who frequently eat (especially red) meat. What is your motivation behind eating meat? Is it the taste? Are you really that shallow and do you really want animals to be breeded and killed just for your enjoyment? I'm not trying to guilt-trip you, I just want to know your motivations. Please enlighten me, and hey, maybe you can even change my mind. Even a vegetarian diet is not a guilt free option. Dairy cows are forcibly impregnated and drugged to continually yield milk. The idea of cows and chickens peacefully frolicking in a green pasture and drinking from fresh meadow springs is just an illusion they try to sell you. They all get slaughtered for their meat eventually, after being forced to do things against their will. So, why are you a vegetarian and not a vegan? Or do you just not care because cheese tastes good? Are you okay with animals being raped? I didn't wanna shock the people of MAL too hard by making an obnoxious vegan thread. Truth is, I was a vegan for 3 years in the past, but due to complicated circumstances I was forced to go back to vegetarianism. I definitely know about the suffering cows and chickens go through for milk and eggs, and I hate it. |
If life ain't just a joke Then why are we laughing? If life ain't just a joke Then why am I dead? |
| I am dead inside, it´s only fitting that my body is a graveyard. |
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| There really isn't any good justification for eating meat if you live in contemporary western society, just as there wasn't any justification good justification for slavery in the 17-1800s. Carnivorism in the modern era is akin to slavery during the Enlightenment. I eat meat because I don't care about any of that. Planning on reducing its incidence in my diet though. Karote said: The thing is, we are in a forum and everybody is literally saying the same thing. Can't anyone bother to read/expect the other posts and add at least a little trace of argumentation to theirs instead of being ordinary? Just being honest, I say "douchbag", because it's kind of annoying how normie and ordinary people tend to be. Also meat is not a hobbie, it's a much more delicate subject than "anime". And even so, it would feel ordinary if people only said that, right? Even though I don't expect that happening in an anime forum why they like anime, I would expect weebs to be expressing like Quora posters. But yeah, what can I do? People like being ordinary. I expected more from MAL users. Ah yes, Just what MAL needs. Vegan saints lording their superior ethics over us. DarkInsomnia57 said: It is up to society to come up with vegetarian/vegan alternatives to meat in a lab that taste as good as meat to wean me off of meat. Coming up with recipes and processing the foods like meat has been, is too hard for an individual. Vegetarianism will become the norm, but it will take time. The dishes are going to have to be as tasty and filling as meat before people consider the alternative. Otherwise they won't switch. I cook a lot but if I subsisted on veggies only then I'd be hungry all the time. Plus these patterns go back to childhood (cooking meat and knowing the dishes that make meat tasty). If society wants to make vegetarianism more mainstream, cheap like meat, just as if not more filling, just as if not more tasty, with preselected dishes which everyone can crave like before, then who am I to disagree? What is the vegetarian alternative to: spaghetti and meatballs, shrimp and cocktail sauce, hamburgers, hot dogs, ribs, bbq, cajun fish dishes, oysters, all the amazing things I've had since I was born. If you want to make it in a lab and I can't tell the difference and it's CHEAPER, well then I think a lot of people will become vegans without even thinking twice. Meat is not great for your diet. But the first thing we need to do is ban added sugars in foods, as well as enriched flours. All food should be 50% organic, whole wheat with no added sugar. If we can't even live up to that standard to reduce obesity, then what chance does vegetarianism have? The biggest problem for me is imagining vegetarian dishes that will be as tasty as meat. I can't. There are alternatives though. Beyond Burgers and Impossible Burgers aren't too expensive. Don't see any reason why you have to ban sugar first before banning or limiting the consumption of meat. They're similar, but that's like saying you have to ban manslaughter before you ban murder. You can clearly identify what's wrong with both of them so it's better to go for both. |
OduduwaJul 14, 2020 12:15 PM
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Illuminatli said: For the last 12 years, I have been a vegetarian. Now I'm asking you guys. Why are you still eating meat? Now, it is true that back in the day, in the prehistoric era, it was necessary to eat meat to survive and increase brain capacity. However, that is not the case anymore today. We can get all our nutrients from plant-based products and live a longer life than people who frequently eat (especially red) meat. What is your motivation behind eating meat? Is it the taste? Are you really that shallow and do you really want animals to be breeded and killed just for your enjoyment? I'm not trying to guilt-trip you, I just want to know your motivations. Please enlighten me, and hey, maybe you can even change my mind. Hi, welcome to my TED talk. This is my perspective as someone who hunts, has friends and family with livestock, and is willing to have a good faith discussion about where meat belongs in our society: meat is cultural. Cooking traditions, hunting, fishing, and livestock can all be aspects of heritage and identity. Approaching the discussiion at the distance of {all meat in all contexts} will meet a bristly reception because it doesn't factor in these aspects of meat culture. Of course, most meat isn't aquired at a family farm or the wilderness. As with this forum, the two points of contention that are usually implied with the question "Why do you still eat meat?" are conceptual ethics (is it okay to kill animals for food) and industrial logistics (are we doing this right at the level of factory farms). I hunt; it's clear I'm okay with the concept of animals as food. We don't condemn other animals for this because they also do it for sustenence (not just obligate carnivores like cats, sharks, and axolotls. Even many herbivorous animals will eat small birds, bones, or carrion for minerals that are hard to find in plants). Meat also isn't particuarly bad for human health. The correlation of vegetarians averaging longer lives (which is true) occurs because people who decide to be vegetarian are also more likely to partake in health-concious behaviors like exercising and avoiding substance abuse. As for industrial livestock, there's a lot of room for improvement. As mentioned in the Kurzgesagt video shared above, the conditions they live in are horrendous (again, not construing industrial livestock as {all livestock that exist}). It would be beneficial to reduce their population density which would absolve many of the problems that arise like disease, animals' distress, and -- depending on who you read -- the taste of the meat itself. Of course, actually reducing it has a low likelihood because said population exists to meet a consumer demand and a profitability margin. "Why do you still eat meat?" is a question that is so broad and available to nuance that it can be difficult to completely convey everything in a single answer. I've thought about this for years and spent quite a bit of time on just this response yet even I didn't communicate all my thoughts on the matter (I didn't really go into meat in culinary tradition beyond mentioning it). Most people don't think of it much at all and go off the existing culture: meat is available, affordable, and delicious. Part of your query ("Are you really that shallow and do you really want animals to be breeded and killed just for your enjoyment?") implies that by participating as consumers the reader "enjoys" or is even aware of the practices behind it. It's like asking, "Why do you like anime? Do you want animators to be overworked and underpaid just for your enjoyment?" (see? I brought it back to anime) This hostile wording makes the defense "I'm not trying to guilt-trip you" seem ingenuine which leaves the last question most readers will register in your post, "Is it the taste?" I'd encourage you to mull over what you wanted from asking this and formulate a more precise question. Elsewise, it's not surprising that the most common response you've gotten is "It tastes good." |
| It tastes good and I don't have a better reason. I have said before that it is beneficial for a society to care about things beyond themselves as it promotes empathy and a more stable culture. So the idea of more humane animal practices is a good thing, even if it is currently completely impractical to mass produce at such a level and treat animals well. The display alone is at least useful idea. Anyway, everyone living in a first world country takes advantage of the suffering of others for their own pleasure anyway. The computer you use here was made through the use of child slaves in Africa mining cobalt for example, and many of the products you own were created through similar exploitative labor, which is why you were able to afford them. Surely, no one will give up these possessions. A luxury once enjoyed becomes a necessity. |
 I can see you |
| @Oduduwa What vegan? D: Yarub said: I wish I could provide in your mouth some pork after you quoting me non-sense normie stuff as usual :) I am pointing out the obvious things that no one like to hear, that's why people are getting triggered. Karote said: Still baby raging and providing nothing of value I see. You'd think after 5 posts you'd say something other than "normies" and "arguments". The thing is, we are in a forum and everybody is literally saying the same thing. Can't anyone bother to read/expect the other posts and add at least a little trace of argumentation to theirs instead of being ordinary? Just being honest, I say "douchbag", because it's kind of annoying how normie and ordinary people tend to be. Also meat is not a hobbie, it's a much more delicate subject than "anime". And even so, it would feel ordinary if people only said that, right? Even though I don't expect that happening in an anime forum why they like anime, I would expect weebs to be expressing like Quora posters. But yeah, what can I do? People like being ordinary. I expected more from MAL users. Imagine thinking a discussion about what people like is argumentative. You can argue the stated opinions, but yeah, all you did was just point out what's obvious. So much for calling other people normies. I don't know what the bomberman wants now. Pork or things he can just never understand? :(( |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Murau said: You might have strayed a bit too far into the grand towards the end of your post, lol, but I pretty much agree with all of it. For the majority of people it is basically habit. People will give you many different reasons when they are confronted, most of them unreflected or standing on a weak foundation of ethics that they probably wouldn't use to justify other things, but the crux of it is habit. Everyone is also detached from the entire process. They see a prepackaged steak in front of them in the meat isle; they don't experience the process to get it. People in the past would actually feel some guilt when eating an animal because there was proximity. They lived with their animals, so closer relationships were built. That's why, for example, in the Bible it had to be written that they were given dominion of the animals by God; they needed justification. They would also, of course, eat less meat (we eat a gargantuan portion today). All of that is gone now with factory farming. We live in a newer society where the stakes are higher and we should be ruthless with our questioning. They are other beings of this earth with their own experience. We do not live isolated independent existences but have relations embedded with the rest of the environment and universe. The way we view other beings and treat them ultimately extends to our relationship with our socioecology and the rest of the world. The way we do things now is ultimately self destructive. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| mostly because i love cheese and every vegan cheese i've tried has been awful if not inedible. so i assume it's like that for other animal product alternatives. i don't really eat much red meats, but it'd be hard to completely cut out chicken, fish, and things like cheese and creams etc. |
| Give me one valid reason why I should stop eating meat. |
Only_Brad said: Give me one valid reason why I should stop eating meat. You wouldn't like to be raised and then killed and eaten, would you? |
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| yes. it tastes good. yes. its hard to get out of habit of eating meat yes. i enjoy consuming meat. no. i do not plan to stop. no. i do not think vegans and vegetarians are in the wrong, they have their own opinions, its just that i enjoy consuming meat and will not stop anytime soon. |
   ππ°, πΈπ¦ π£π¦π¨π’π― π°πΆπ³ π΅π³π’π·π¦ππ΄ π¬π―π°πΈπͺπ―π¨ π―π°π΅π©πͺπ―π¨, ππ¦π’π΄π΅ π°π§ π’ππ πΈπ©π¦π³π¦ πΈπ¦ πΈπ¦π³π¦ π¨π°πͺπ―π¨ |
Karote said: Haha, yeah try to do that, I'll flatten all your teeth, soyboy. The fact of the matter is, no one is triggered. You literally did nothing except be annoying, which sure enough is easy to ignore. @Oduduwa What vegan? D: Yarub said: I wish I could provide in your mouth some pork after you quoting me non-sense normie stuff as usual :) I am pointing out the obvious things that no one like to hear, that's why people are getting triggered. Still baby raging and providing nothing of value I see. You'd think after 5 posts you'd say something other than "normies" and "arguments". Imagine thinking a discussion about what people like is argumentative. You can argue the stated opinions, but yeah, all you did was just point out what's obvious. So much for calling other people normies. I don't know what the bomberman wants now. Pork or things he can just never understand? :(( Keep showing your insecurities bro. "Female" btw. Lying about your gender won't make people think you're special. |
Peaceful_Critic said: Tapertrain said: I'll argue the unethical parts of eating meat is more inherent as a socialist/communist system still wouldn't fix the fact that you need to kill an animal for food. Though stuff like clothes can be unethical in their own right, buying clothes doesn't have to be. There are ethical brands or alternatives to a lot of stuff that has unethical things you mentioned. You have wind/solar powered energy(my mom actually uses an electric car). You also have tons of chocolate brands that are ethical as well(http://www.slavefreechocolate.org/ethical-chocolate-companies)Abstaining from eating meat is virtuous, however there is no ethical consumption. The world economy which is driven by capitalism necessitates exploitation. Systemic change is the only thing that will make a meaningful difference to help animals. If I stopped eating meat the world wouldn't be a better place. The oil industry is causing climate change. The chocolate industry uses child labour. The electronic industry uses conflict minerals. Paying taxes help corrupt police and military All of these issues need to be resolved with systemic change. I enjoy eating meat too much to stop. If the chance arrives I'll vote for politicians that work to regulate the meat industry and fund research into meat alternatives. In these cases, it would be theoretically possible to boycott at mass the unethical companies enough that it seriously damages profits if you switch to the better alternative. Though, only if others follow you in large enough numbers. Demand is still important to an extent, they need consumer money. It isn't like the consumer has no power at all. The taxes thing is most definitely a systemic issue and actual ethical computers seem impossible to find which necessitate systemic reform more than other products. I've finally gotten around to responding to this. I never said anything about socialism necessarily being the solution for the animal problem. However, we should invest in synthetic meat. I would also vote for the consumption of factory meat to become illegal. Those are the Systemic changes that I'm talking about. The idea that consumers can simply boycot an industry and make it disappear is not based in reality. Products are only abandoned when an alternative emerges. Let's dismantle your ideas one at a time. I like most people live in an area where the power grid is attached to fossil fuels. I want to use green energy but that's not on the market. The government just gave massive tax breaks to the oil companies. Energy is absolutely a systemic issue. The main chocolate brands that are advertised all use child labour. They're the brands that have a monopoly and are convenient to buy . It's theoretically possible to boycott the chocolate companies but nothing like that has never happened. Let's socialize the chocolate industry actually. The chocolate farmers would seize the means of production and collectively ownership over their output. This would mean democracy in the workplace. Democracy means informed adults voting on decisions. Socialism would require children be educated in order to make informed decisions. Under Capitalism, we bomb the shit out of every third world country until it can be exploited. |
Peaceful_Critic said: @SrLiveFi Yes those foods are nutrient dense. But they don't have highly bioavailable versions of some of the vitamins. that meat has. For example kale has a lot of vitamin K1 but it doesn't get absorbed as well as vitamin K2. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6413124/ K1 isn't vitamin anyone is ever deficient on, so the absorption rate doesn't matter all that much. "In case of vitamin K1, NAM implies that the average intake is currently already higher than adequate (surpassing 100%) Therefore, daily recommended intake of vitamin K1 can be achieved easily by the Western diet, as no deficiency in vitamin K1 has been reported so far in healthy adults"- 3. Adequate Intake is an Estimate k2 is also found in some plant sources, it is bacteria synthesized after all: "Fermentation of soy beans with Bacillus natto produces Natto, a Japanese dish that contains the highest content of K2, in particular MK-7 (321 ng/g of K1, and 10,985 ng/g of K2)"-2. Dietary Vitamin K Not to mention, there's evidence k1 can be converted into k2 and is made by human intestinal flora. Vegans are fine in the K vitamin department(To conclude, a whole food, plant-based diet will provide large amounts of vitamin K and keep your gut healthy for optimal vitamin K2 synthesis and total vitamin K absorption.). DHA also has plant sources, namely seaweed, and algae(https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323144) But it is often supplemented in some fortified vegan foods as well. That said, it is normal for meat-eaters as well though to supplement it, since DHA is seafood-heavy which isn't common where I live and can be expensive. Anyway, point is, you don't need to necessarily supplement DHA in a vegan diet either. Not to mention Vitamin A and K, can be absorbed better if you eat food with a fat content(https://bastyr.edu/news/health-tips/2011/09/nutrient-combinations-best-absorption) Creatine is a non-essential vitamin, your own body makes it. Iron can be absorbed better with vitamin C food which is plentiful in plant sources. B12 has some natural sources like Nori which I didn't know until today(https://www.healthline.com/health/vitamin-b12-foods-for-vegetarians#vitamin-b-12-food-list), but most non-vegans have it supplemented into their factory farm meats anyways. So it isn't bad vegans are by in large doing the same thing. Drinking fortified plant milk is common in the vegan diet and would provide enough. Vegan diets can be perfectly healthy if you just plan it right(https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/is-a-vegetarian-or-vegan-diet-for-you) Most of the deficiencies can be avoided in the vegan diet by just making sure you are eating your primary protein sources with your veggies. Which is usually what proper vegan meal looks like anyway and that fixes your bioavailability problem. People can easily get enough vitamin K1 from vegetables, but absorption is less than 10%. Vitamin K1 to K2 conversion rate is even lower. (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-k1-vs-k2#section4) Unless you're eating fermented foods everyday, you're going to be deficient in vitamin k2. And even if you eat fermented foods everyday, the vitamin K2 type in them is MK-7. MK-4 is only found in animal sources and it's fully absorbed by the human body without any conversion. (https://terrywahls.com/vitamink2mk4/) This site also suggests that conversion from K1, MK-7 to MK-4 via the enzyme UBIAD1 results in menadione (K3), and in high amounts it may cause toxicity and oxidative stress. So, in order to have adequate levels of MK-4, you have to eat meat or supplement it. Because vegans and vegetarians consume large amounts of Omega 6 sources like wheat, vegetable oils, nuts and seeds, they need far higher amounts of Omega 3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808858/). So even if you get some DHA from seaweed and algae (if you eat them everyday), the need for it is higher. According to this website, while the amount of DHA in 1-oz seaweed is between 4 and 134 mg, 4-oz salmon has 2,085 mg of DHA. (http://www.eatingwell.com/article/152630/the-important-nutrient-youre-not-getting-enough-of-and-how-to-get-it/) Unless you eat high amounts of fish, you're going to be deficient in Omega 3. And you're right, even people who eat meat don't necessarily eat fish so they need to supplement as well. I agree on creatine, it's not necessarily needed, but it's overall beneficial if you do (Some people take it as a supplement for increased exercise performance). As for iron, "Heme iron, which is present mainly in meat, poultry and fish, is well absorbed. Non-heme iron, which accounts for the majority of the iron in plants, is less well absorbed. More than 95% of functional iron in the human body is in the form of heme." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967179/#:~:text=Dietary%20iron%20is%20found%20in,form%20of%20heme%20%5B2%5D.) So, it doesn't matter if iron gets absorbed better with vitamin C because your body needs heme iron, which is found in animal sources. I forgot that things like nutritional yeast is also a natural source of b vitamins, so that's a great source. And I don't consume factory farm meat because of inhumane practices. However, if you can't afford grass fed meat, even store bought beef, turkey and chicken liver has enough vitamin b-12. Most of the vitamins and minerals are in organ meats, which most people in western societies don't consume as much anymore. You mentioned vegans and vegetarians take certain vitamins that are not found in plant foods or found in small amounts by eating fortified foods. What they fortify foods with is almost always synthetic and not natural. When you eat natural foods you consume multiple vitamins, co-factors and enzymes, which helps the absorption. For example: Vitamin E from natural sources is absorbed twice as efficiently than synthetic vitamin E. (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/synthetic-vs-natural-nutrients#section2) So I don't believe that eating fortified foods are necessarily healthy. Overall what I'm trying to say is, why should I stop eating animal sources? I have to plan and work hard to eat variety of foods every single day to stay healthy if I stop eating meat. But animal sources already have what I mostly need in abundance. Poor bioavaibility is just one of the problems of vegan/vegatarian diet. Vegetables most of the time taste bad, and the ones that taste good are starchy ones like potatoes, which raise your blood sugar levels, cause insulin spikes and lead to weight gain. Because fruits are full of fructose, over time it causes fatty liver disease because fructose can only be metabolized in the liver. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5893377/) Whereas, protein and fat found in animal sources don't raise blood sugar and insulin as much as carbohydrates in plant foods does. |
removed-userJul 15, 2020 7:00 AM
Oduduwa said: Only_Brad said: Give me one valid reason why I should stop eating meat. You wouldn't like to be raised and then killed and eaten, would you? I said a valid reason. That's not a valid reason, that's just bad logic. |
Would you rather let an animal die and go to waste, or just eat it? |
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