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Poll: Id:Invaded Episode 9 Discussion


#1
Feb 23, 7:21 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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This is like some weird reimaging of the world Sakaido knew. No doubt the world he is in this episode gave him similiar feelings as one he's very familiar with. He even makes a promise to end the misery of a particular girl.

A thrilling episode with more lives at danger. Sakaido's own involvement with the latest case made him intimidating even though he's in a wheechair lol
Modified by Stark700, Feb 23, 7:30 AM
 
#2
Feb 23, 7:35 AM

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You know, if this show ends with Sakaido being a vegetable and some weird, limbo/well thingy happens where he and his family live happily ever after .. i wouldn't even be surprised, you know like Repo Men movie ending.
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#3
Feb 23, 7:40 AM

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Seems like the Mizuhanome works by keeping Asukai around, feeding her the intent-to-kill particles and hooking up people to her dreams...

And this is why only killers can enter the Mizuhanome...
Modified by lpf, Feb 23, 8:06 AM



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#4
Feb 23, 7:55 AM

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"Real world" is 1st layer of dream? At least that what's hinted in this episode
 
#5
Feb 23, 7:57 AM
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Minor spoiler got a glimpse of john walker light colored hair it almost white
 
#6
Feb 23, 7:59 AM
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My guess but I'll probably be wrong later

So John Walker might be someone with legal power, he has good intention that he'll let people with serial murder thought come into Kaeru dream and murder her in her dream instead of going rampage in real life, poor Kaeru, that's why we met her dead everytime investigation in id well happen and that's the reason why she can always give a hint to where the murder hidden in id well is.

But of course, John Walker project failed as serial murder still going to commit a murder in real life.

Now this is my usual scream: OMG the kickboxer is so hot, they should have sex instead of fighting with Sakaido.
 
#7
Feb 23, 8:22 AM

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We finally got to see a glimpse of John Walker's face and he looks an awful lot like the chief of their police-organization-thing. You can even see he has his hair tied.
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#8
Feb 23, 8:36 AM
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What do you guys think...how many serial killers are out there that John Walker created???
 
#9
Feb 23, 8:39 AM

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Whoa, Sakaido's gonna kill those serial killers all over again since he has been in their wells before. I like that.
 
Feb 23, 8:42 AM

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This is turning into supernatural but this was great. So Kaeru chan was based on Kiki Asukai and she has some powers which john Walker used to make serial killers. Well this was interesting.
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Feb 23, 8:52 AM

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This was a very interesting episode.

Narihisago was able to keep his memories by diving into Kiki Asukai's well from within a well. That may also mean that Hondoumachi who also dived into that well from previous episodes.

Man, I feel sorry for Kaeru/Kiki. She's being killed in every dream by serial killers and it's all John Walker guy fault.


 
Feb 23, 9:00 AM

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I have no idea what's going on anymore... which is perfect since it makes the plot twist much more satisfying. 4 episodes left, the hype is real now.

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Feb 23, 9:05 AM

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Damn this keeps on happening hmmm,,... nice outlook where Kaeru is actually alive
 
Feb 23, 9:08 AM

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lpf said:
Seems like the Mizuhanome works by keeping Asukai around, feeding her the intent-to-kill particles and hooking up people to her dreams...

And this is why only killers can enter the Mizuhanome...


This basically sums up my thoughts.

Every serial killer has a dead Kaeru-chan in their id well and since we learned that Kaeru is Kiki everything started to make more sense.

I think Johnny Walker really exists in this world Sakaido is currently in.
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Feb 23, 9:13 AM

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damn, this gave me some Inception vibes again. i like that it's getting even more and more confusing
also, that combat scene was really awesome. it had this rock song while they beat the shit outta each other, sometimes it looked goofy and it really reminded me combat scenes from Guy Ritchie movies
 
Feb 23, 9:18 AM

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This is just MIND-BOGGLINGLY GOOD.
Man, can't wait for this shit every week.
 
Feb 23, 9:27 AM
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I love it but I'm so confused. Are they deliberately making John Walker look like the Director? What world is real? And how the hell are they gonna wrap the whole story up in just 4 episodes?
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Feb 23, 9:43 AM
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Not gonna lie, I had my doubts at first. It started off amazingly and then almost turned monster-of-the-week. But the story has slowly built and built and now it seems to be taking off full-force.

My theory: if that glimpse we got is accurate and John Walker is the director, then the director has some sort of machine he's running Asukai Kiki in that allows one to freely enter someone's head under certain conditions. He's used it to implant those Mizuhanome stations inside others' heads as a way to frame Momoki and trap the people getting ever closer to his real identity.

Only four more episodes. I can't wait. I hope it keeps going strong.
 
Feb 23, 9:46 AM
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ysphyr said:
I love it but I'm so confused. Are they deliberately making John Walker look like the Director? What world is real? And how the hell are they gonna wrap the whole story up in just 4 episodes?

Karen why do I have to do this over here as well...

1. John Walker got fat in only three years? Then yeah, he is the director. Except he is not, Director is a villain but on smaller scale, I keep saying that he is obsessed with John Walker, but is not him.
2. There are three established dimensions: real-world, ID-wells and dream-world, which is a state-of-the-art simulation which resides in Asukai Kiki's well. Her world (her ID-well) is not real, but it simulates reality. So far it is impossible to say just how much from that world can be considered crucial and real in the "real" world. Series deals with a lot of psychological ideas and their symbolism, which should give a hint to the viewer to stay critical and open-minded.
3.Uuuuuuh yes they can wrap it in 4 more episodes, easily actually. 1 more episode for the dream-world, back to real world, another ID-well of someone... namely the Director? And two final episodes to finally hunt down the John Walker. Unless they pull Babylon on us, the series should stay high-quality.
MegamiRem said:
This is turning into supernatural but this was great. So Kaeru chan was based on Kiki Asukai and she has some powers which john Walker used to make serial killers. Well this was interesting.

I do hope this psychic ability of hers does not bleed into the real-world and ends up an established concept. This series would be the strongest if it manages to remain a pure psychological science-fiction.
MegamiRem said:
This is turning into supernatural but this was great. So Kaeru chan was based on Kiki Asukai and she has some powers which john Walker used to make serial killers. Well this was interesting.
ostojicch said:
What do you guys think...how many serial killers are out there that John Walker created???

From what we know, there have been 6-7 of them? Hard to tell if we can count Gravedigger/her aide as two or one serial killer.
[/quote]
Ramcius said:
"Real world" is 1st layer of dream? At least that what's hinted in this episode

It only makes sense symbolically - the "real" world is the starting point for all the dreams and those ID-wells and everything. It is the first layer from which humans (consciously or not) give birth to more layers. Be it dreams, concepts, stories or anything else. Assuming this does not try to play with the idea reality itself cannot be considered real since there is no way to confirm it, as of now ("in the eye of the beholder").
phantomfandom said:
My guess but I'll probably be wrong later

So John Walker might be someone with legal power, he has good intention that he'll let people with serial murder thought come into Kaeru dream and murder her in her dream instead of going rampage in real life, poor Kaeru, that's why we met her dead everytime investigation in id well happen and that's the reason why she can always give a hint to where the murder hidden in id well is.

But of course, John Walker project failed as serial murder still going to commit a murder in real life.

We can already tell you that this theory is wrong. While it definitely could be a project, if they had good intentions they would stop after creating the first serial killer. In fact, this little "John Walker" project has been going for at least 3 years now, surrounded by mysterious disappearances and more and more serial killers produced over time.
Modified by Daniel_Naumov, Feb 23, 9:53 AM
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Feb 23, 9:53 AM
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So Kiki or Kaeru keeps on getting killed by serial killers in her dreams to then have Sakaido solve them in each killer case. Damn someone needs to save this girl.
 
Feb 23, 9:59 AM

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A fantastic episode, though I don't know what to say other than what has already been said. We're finally starting to understand how the Mizuhanome works, and possibly John Walker's motives. I cannot wait for next episode!
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Feb 23, 10:06 AM
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im not sure how but this well has shown other events but the pasts were the same up to a certain point.

Kiki did exist and so did her abilities
Im sure she didnt tell every killer her name or she told walker an alias or momoki programmed the mizuhomane to recognise kiki as kaeru
Either way thats how every killer seen knows kaeru chan
she is the common link. They probably practiced on her before actual crimes
hell i wouldnt even be surprised if the cognition particles werent the killers but were kikis

man i love this show
 
Feb 23, 10:11 AM
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Daniel_Naumov said:
phantomfandom said:
My guess but I'll probably be wrong later

So John Walker might be someone with legal power, he has good intention that he'll let people with serial murder thought come into Kaeru dream and murder her in her dream instead of going rampage in real life, poor Kaeru, that's why we met her dead everytime investigation in id well happen and that's the reason why she can always give a hint to where the murder hidden in id well is.

But of course, John Walker project failed as serial murder still going to commit a murder in real life.

We can already tell you that this theory is wrong. While it definitely could be a project, if they had good intentions they would stop after creating the first serial killer. In fact, this little "John Walker" project has been going for at least 3 years now, surrounded by mysterious disappearances and more and more serial killers produced over time.


Except if there are so many people with murder thought entering Kaeru's dream, let's say 100, and less than ten of them commit real world murder within observed period, so 90% plus could be count as success by someone's point of view.
 
Feb 23, 10:16 AM

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It's a little complicated to understand fully. But if you remember past episodes, it might become more clear. Explains why people in these id wells are so scared of the man with the crane. Explains why Sakido can see the same girl dead in every id well he goes into. Seems like this crane man has some form of power to enter other's dreams/id wells, and bring killers along for the ride to kill people in their dreams over and over. Or least in this case. One girl. Interesting. But that's just my thoughts.
 
Feb 23, 10:20 AM

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so kaeru is really dying or that just a program?
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Feb 23, 10:31 AM

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it's like if Inception and Minority report had a baby and the baby is always high
 
Feb 23, 10:31 AM
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Daniel_Naumov said:
ysphyr said:
I love it but I'm so confused. Are they deliberately making John Walker look like the Director? What world is real? And how the hell are they gonna wrap the whole story up in just 4 episodes?

Karen why do I have to do this over here as well...

1. John Walker got fat in only three years? Then yeah, he is the director. Except he is not, Director is a villain but on smaller scale, I keep saying that he is obsessed with John Walker, but is not him.
2. There are three established dimensions: real-world, ID-wells and dream-world, which is a state-of-the-art simulation which resides in Asukai Kiki's well. Her world (her ID-well) is not real, but it simulates reality. So far it is impossible to say just how much from that world can be considered crucial and real in the "real" world. Series deals with a lot of psychological ideas and their symbolism, which should give a hint to the viewer to stay critical and open-minded.
3.Uuuuuuh yes they can wrap it in 4 more episodes, easily actually. 1 more episode for the dream-world, back to real world, another ID-well of someone... namely the Director? And two final episodes to finally hunt down the John Walker. Unless they pull Babylon on us, the series should stay high-quality.


I'm not saying John Walker is the Director (I'd be dissapointed if they'll go with something so trivial), but you can't deny JW kinda resembles him?

Was that made on purpose to confuse us? But then again - that's how Akihito perceives JW, so does that mean deep inside he suspects the Director? Ahh, I confused myself even more, I need to stop.

As for the worlds - how does Kiki's world recreates other people's lives? She most definetely didn't know Akihito's family and colleagues, yet they are exactly the way he remembers them. Does she use other people's memories to fill her world with details? Hope they'll explain this later.

I also wonder why I constantly see people mentioning Babylon when talking about ID:Invaded...
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Feb 23, 10:32 AM

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Okay this is getting really mindfucking, I'm not sure what's going on anymore and I'm enjoying it a lot.
Modified by fuyuki, Feb 23, 12:13 PM
 
Feb 23, 10:38 AM
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ah ok so its not really technology but Kaeru an actual esper/psychic/ESP user is actually alive somewhere and her getting killed by serial killers repeatedly in the dream world means her ID well is Invaded repeatedly to solve those killers cases eh

but Kaeru (or Kiki Asukai in real life) is tortured repeatedly for the sake of the greater good to solve this serial killer cases eh
 
Feb 23, 10:40 AM

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Good Episode
7/10
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Feb 23, 10:52 AM
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Very cruel to the "Kaeru' who is killed nightly in her dream having to see his wife and child alive is something he is protecting
 
Feb 23, 11:16 AM
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So captivating didn't move a muscle till it was over.
 
Feb 23, 11:26 AM

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deg said:
ah ok so its not really technology but Kaeru an actual esper/psychic/ESP user is actually alive somewhere and her getting killed by serial killers repeatedly in the dream world means her ID well is Invaded repeatedly to solve those killers cases eh

but Kaeru (or Kiki Asukai in real life) is tortured repeatedly for the sake of the greater good to solve this serial killer cases eh


Pretty much this. I hope Akihito can save her irl but that will probably mean the end of the whole well project, they need someone to be constantly invaded for it to work. But this at least explains why "Kaeru" is the default setting as well.

I wonder what Hondomachi will do since she must had to end up in the same place. Probably next episode.

Also, probably rip Anaido for now since he didn't eject as promised..
 
Feb 23, 11:36 AM
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I feel like john walker HAS to be the director, he looked exactly like him this episode... but honestly i wouldn't be disappointed with that, i know people may think it's too "obvious" or "boring" but given with how mindfuckery-ish everything else about the show is i'd be fine with having something 'predictable.'

i hope this gets a season 2, not sure how well they could wrap it up in just 4 episodes
 
Feb 23, 11:48 AM
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lpf said:
Seems like the Mizuhanome works by keeping Asukai around, feeding her the intent-to-kill particles and hooking up people to her dreams...

And this is why only killers can enter the Mizuhanome...


That is a very legit theory.
 
Feb 23, 12:02 PM

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Said it day one when I got retweeted by Funimation, this is an anime Nolan film. Absolutely masterful direction, writing and build up. It truly challenges you to use your brain to piece things together and doesn't feed you information. It's an interactive experience. Wish this wasn't so slept on, definitely the best of the season and deserves more love. But, I guess that's what happens when you air with Railgun, Bofuri, etc

This episode was Fucking insane. Kiki's pain is unimaginable. The fact she hadn't killed herself yet was remarkable. The fight between Sakaido and the challenger was extremely unsettling and realistic. I bet this anime ends with everything having happened within a 4000x Id well. Can't wait for next week
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Feb 23, 12:37 PM

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First of all-- WOW! This episode was such a trip that answered a few questions but opened many more up!

I feel awful for Kiki and what John Walker is doing to her.. I just want to know why? He wouldn't be having people kill her in her dreams if he had no affiliation with her..

I also was very happy to see Sakaido get to see see his family again. It is all bittersweet, though, when taking into account that none of it is real. It really pulled at my heart strings when his wife said, "If I die, it isn't real." Ugh..if only she knew.

I know Sakaido is busy, understandably so, but he better not forget to look for Hondomachi. ALSO, ANAIDO, I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF 10 MINUTES? I understand that he does not have a clock and the sun does not rise or go down, but lordy, Anaido.

Oh and I am still convinced that Momoki is NOT John Walker, please don't @me.

Overall, a fantastic episode, and I cannot wait to see what comes next!
 
Feb 23, 12:40 PM

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ferdievonaegir said:
I feel like john walker HAS to be the director, he looked exactly like him this episode... but honestly i wouldn't be disappointed with that, i know people may think it's too "obvious" or "boring" but given with how mindfuckery-ish everything else about the show is i'd be fine with having something 'predictable.'

i hope this gets a season 2, not sure how well they could wrap it up in just 4 episodes


Yeah, I am hoping for a season too as well. This story is very interesting but complicated. I agree that it would be VERY hard to wrap it up with the remaining episodes.
 
Feb 23, 12:41 PM

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I hope Narihisago continues this path of justice where he stops all the serial killers before they start actually killing. Gosh it's interesting, I can't wait to see where this ends up next week.
 
Feb 23, 12:50 PM
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So, this Kiki Asukai, was quite a puzzling character, I'm guessing some psycho is keeping her in that other Mizuhanime.
 
Feb 23, 1:07 PM
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The episode was amazing, my only hope is that we get several seasons exploring even bigger.. but seems its a one season series.. :'( :crei:
 
Feb 23, 1:11 PM
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Kinda got some stiens gate vibe going on.
 
Feb 23, 1:42 PM
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Marinate1016 said:
Said it day one when I got retweeted by Funimation, this is an anime Nolan film. Absolutely masterful direction, writing and build up. It truly challenges you to use your brain to piece things together and doesn't feed you information. It's an interactive experience. Wish this wasn't so slept on, definitely the best of the season and deserves more love. But, I guess that's what happens when you air with Railgun, Bofuri, etc


You said the same about Fairy Gone. I do not think that they are close to each other, story-quality wise.
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Feb 23, 1:53 PM
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We should keep in mind that momoki said this was/is a trap. I dont know how exactly this plays into everything, but its worth to think over it.
 
Feb 23, 2:14 PM

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yeah, clearly the machine is made using Kiki. Sounds viscous. Immoral to sacrifice one person for the sake of others, against their will. I hope he can save her, among others.
 
Feb 23, 2:41 PM
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As a random passerby that marathon-ed until this episode, I wish to express my internal struggle:

I have my suspicions about Momoki and him being John Walker crossed my mind especially around the time Hondoumachi was proposed as a Dai Tante/Detective/. But, maybe, because the suspicion turned out to be correct?, my actual suspicion was further stirred up. Momoki definitely has something hidden, but I can't point my finger to it.
All that said, I do think Momoki considers Narihisago Akihito a friend and a close one at that.

Now on to this: the audience knows the evil deeds of the serial killers, so does Akihito, but the rest of (dream) world DOESN'T (Kiki is ignored for now). As with the Face Stealer, some of them haven't actually killed anyone, YET in the real (dream) world. Yet Akihito (all noble goal in mind) is actually trying to prevent them from becoming killing anybody, by killing them (WITH WORDS, no less), well technically mostly suicide, but you get the point.
We also know that there are a number killers out there.
And then this:

Kirasaya said:
We should keep in mind that Momoki said this was/is a trap. I dont know how exactly this plays into everything, but its worth to think over it.


Right now from the point of view of the dream world populace/police Akihito is starting a killing spree, essentially turning into a serial killer.
This may sound convoluted, but what if this is the trap that Momoki wanted to warn about?
What if John Walker's way of doing thing is slowly eroding the moral/social/you-name-it chains that tie down some humans from being killers by putting them in situations that allow them to roam free (Kiki to be mentioned) and if so isn't this what's happening to Akihito now?

And just to finish this wall of text: If Momoki, knew how Kiki looked alive, then maybe he started searching for her after seeing Kaeru in the well? -> Maybe a hint for what he is hiding.
Thanks for reading through!
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Feb 23, 3:02 PM
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Come to think about it, throughout the series it was hinted that Koharu Hondoumachi had some kind of internal conflict after having a hole drilled in her head, so I wouldn't really be surprised if the upcoming twist in the story will be that in that dream world she embraces her serial killer side. Although, I don't know how much of that could be truth.
 
Feb 23, 3:07 PM

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This anime is so confusing...I love it !
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Feb 23, 4:01 PM

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Finally, we know more about the real Kaeru-chan in real life. Its was a bit creepy that she is being killed in every dream by serial killers. That explain why every serial killer has a dead Kaeru-chan in their id well. Save her!

This episode made me think a lot so it's a very good series. 5/5





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Feb 23, 5:24 PM

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This 'inception like' kind of shit is so fuckin awsome. This anime just keeps gettin better and better. It really has potential for a live action adaptation
 
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