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Poll: Vinland Saga Chapter 169 Discussion


#1
Jan 24, 10:42 PM

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THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
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What a story from Cordelia.

Just goes to show how cruel the Viking World can really be.
 
#2
Jan 24, 11:16 PM

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Damn, Stark beat me to it this month with the thread. Chapter started kinda boring ngl, then picked up once we got into the meat of Cordelia's story. For a monthly series, the last couple chapters have felt rather light and short, so hopefully that picks up soon as we start making our way into the final arc.

Really feel bad for Cordelia and it will be interesting to see how they wiggle yet another precious possession away from Halfdan. Pretty obvious that she's also Thorkell's daughter.
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#3
Jan 25, 1:44 AM

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I really liked the backstory for Cordelia it was pretty funny and absurd especially because she's Thorkell's child but touching at the same time, Hope that we will go to Vinland soon but with how slow the chapters right now and how many plot points there are still to cover I can't see it happening any time soon.
 
#4
Jan 25, 2:28 AM

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Why, why why why why why why why why.... WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cordelia, Havarr or whatever genderbend u are... u deserve to be free!
 
#5
Jan 25, 4:15 AM

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Cordelia must be protected


never thought I would say that about a Thorkell's relative
And then, God missed a step of his stairs
 
#6
Jan 25, 5:27 AM

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What a nosedive this series has done. Can't believe Yukimura skipped Greece for this garbage.
 
#7
Jan 25, 6:04 AM
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GreenEmu said:
What a nosedive this series has done. Can't believe Yukimura skipped Greece for this garbage.

Woah, woah, woah, you dare to criticize this manga? Better be prepared for people questioning your IQ and other ad hominem insults. Of course, classics like "maybe you should just drop it then" go without saying. I mean you were supposed to say "wow, so revolutionary, so woke, so ingenious".
 
#8
Jan 25, 6:40 AM

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GreenEmu said:
What a nosedive this series has done. Can't believe Yukimura skipped Greece for this garbage.
nothing happened in greece
 
#9
Jan 25, 8:12 AM

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4/5 chapter. needs more moe.
 
Jan 25, 8:58 AM
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NotEdgyEnough4Me said:
GreenEmu said:
What a nosedive this series has done. Can't believe Yukimura skipped Greece for this garbage.

Woah, woah, woah, you dare to criticize this manga? Better be prepared for people questioning your IQ and other ad hominem insults. Of course, classics like "maybe you should just drop it then" go without saying. I mean you were supposed to say "wow, so revolutionary, so woke, so ingenious".
bruh what a cringe comment.
 
Jan 25, 9:59 AM
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Gabisu said:
NotEdgyEnough4Me said:

Woah, woah, woah, you dare to criticize this manga? Better be prepared for people questioning your IQ and other ad hominem insults. Of course, classics like "maybe you should just drop it then" go without saying. I mean you were supposed to say "wow, so revolutionary, so woke, so ingenious".
bruh what a cringe comment.

bruuh ok, thanks.
 
Jan 25, 10:36 AM
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Personally I also think the humor in the series has been very silly as of late, but as long as it doesn't ruin any serious moments I don't see any problem.
 
Jan 25, 10:47 AM

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I can't even begin to imagine what sex with Thorkell must have been like. If Thorkell approaches sex like he approaches battles, I'm surprised the woman lived to give birth to Cordelia.
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Jan 25, 11:09 AM

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I feel like i'm hallucinatig in the whole chapter. It's hilarious to see a gendbend son of thorkell. She deserves to be free '-')

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Jan 25, 11:18 AM
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Uhh... is this real? Has this manga become a satire of itself?? I mean, i know this manga has become pretty unrealistic and woke but jesus yukimura i cannot take this shit seriously.
 
Jan 25, 11:59 AM

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I haven't logged in here for months. But I had to ask the obvious question... what the actually fuck is this?
Does the author really want to sell the story of a mother lying to her son for his ENTIRE life, manipulating him into thinking he is a girl while never having the chance to "try out being a boy just once" as something positive or good? Wtf. Maybe he would have liked playing with other boys in the dirt, maybe he would have liked being a farmer or fisherman or maybe he would have liked building useful stuff out of wood or fixing broken parts of village houses. I don't know what I just read. This is just horrible child abuse. He never agreed to being raised as a girl. At least show him both ways how to live and give him the chance to decide what he likes more, if he prefers being a girl so be it. But not giving him any chance to finding out himself... is incredibly cruel. Not "funny" at all like the author tries to picture it. Vinland Saga used to be a fantasy/darkfantasy/historical manga - not this. Like welcum2savage wrote, this is satire.

Wtf. That chapter was even worse than the final one of Katekyou Hitman Reborn! and that latter chapter almost ruined the entire manga for me.
 
Jan 25, 2:21 PM
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MissPsychoholic said:
I haven't logged in here for months. But I had to ask the obvious question... what the actually fuck is this?
Does the author really want to sell the story of a mother lying to her son for his ENTIRE life, manipulating him into thinking he is a girl while never having the chance to "try out being a boy just once" as something positive or good? Wtf. Maybe he would have liked playing with other boys in the dirt, maybe he would have liked being a farmer or fisherman or maybe he would have liked building useful stuff out of wood or fixing broken parts of village houses. I don't know what I just read. This is just horrible child abuse. He never agreed to being raised as a girl. At least show him both ways how to live and give him the chance to decide what he likes more, if he prefers being a girl so be it. But not giving him any chance to finding out himself... is incredibly cruel. Not "funny" at all like the author tries to picture it. Vinland Saga used to be a fantasy/darkfantasy/historical manga - not this. Like welcum2savage wrote, this is satire.

Wtf. That chapter was even worse than the final one of Katekyou Hitman Reborn! and that latter chapter almost ruined the entire manga for me.
children do not have the authority to agree on what lifestyle they live in, precisely because children are impulsive and cling to easy living, which is why only when they mature, can they decide what to do. The choice of the mother remains objectively wrong and somewhat reckless, Havarr does not seem to be the type to repudiate his own growth through her, but I see this as a gateway to develop the character, a child will not have the maturity in choice that can be having when older, I think this is the stage in which Havarr chooses who he wants to be, what can be applied here is a backstory, to generate momentum for the actions of the present.
 
Jan 25, 2:23 PM
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Poor girl Sold as a slave and raised as a boy
 
Jan 26, 3:45 AM

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1/5

this manga become a joke
 
Jan 26, 5:19 AM

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people that think cordelia is a joke character didn't understand nothing about this series.
 
Jan 26, 7:27 AM
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nanashi796 said:
people that think cordelia is a joke character didn't understand nothing about this series.
people think cordelia is a joke character bc thats literally how yukimura portrays her. Im sorry but this manga isnt the dark gritty seinen it used to be.
 
Jan 26, 8:05 AM

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Tanooshii said:
children do not have the authority to agree on what lifestyle they live in, precisely because children are impulsive and cling to easy living, which is why only when they mature, can they decide what to do. The choice of the mother remains objectively wrong and somewhat reckless, Havarr does not seem to be the type to repudiate his own growth through her, but I see this as a gateway to develop the character, a child will not have the maturity in choice that can be having when older

It really depends on the child tbh. If a child tries out all sorts of things, it can and will eventually understand what is the most enjoyable and satisfactorily way to live for him or her. Even though I'm female, my hobbies were always more boyish than those of other girls around me. I play games since I was 7, prefer sneakers over high heels, watch mainly male Youtubers, or prefer to help my dad out in the garden rather than my mom in the kitchen. But nobody stopped me from exploring different things. It was completely right of Havarr's mom to hide his gender from his warmongering dad to protect him, I understand that, but to hide the truth from the kid himself and lock his path in the direction she wanted it to be, was not okay.
Tanooshii said:
I think this is the stage in which Havarr chooses who he wants to be, what can be applied here is a backstory, to generate momentum for the actions of the present.

I sincerely hope you are right. If they explore the character more and go beyond the "joke" trope of a muscular man with female tendencies, I'm all for it. But make it believable, don't make it look like a silly, nonsensical joke. The entire setting of this manga contradicts this character atm. He and the reactions towards him (at least right now) feel completely out of place. This is not a mmorpg or comedic-fantasy manga. But it feels like one rn.
 
Jan 26, 9:08 AM

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welcum2savage said:
nanashi796 said:
people that think cordelia is a joke character didn't understand nothing about this series.
people think cordelia is a joke character bc thats literally how yukimura portrays her. Im sorry but this manga isnt the dark gritty seinen it used to be.
thorkell is the joke character in this chapter not cordelia and the manga is far more deep and mature now than in the prologue.

how is cordelia a joke character, this page sums up what vinland saga is all about


and btw baltic war arc have some of the best and deep pages of all the manga like this one,this is mature.

Modified by nanashi796, Jan 26, 9:21 AM
 
Jan 26, 1:17 PM
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A bit different to what I'm used to in Vinland Saga, but considering Thorfinn's message and where he wants to end this, it makes sense I suppose
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Jan 26, 3:37 PM

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Marinate1016 said:
For a monthly series, the last couple chapters have felt rather light and short, so hopefully that picks up soon as we start making our way into the final arc..


If you look closely, you'll realize that this happens on the other arcs too: the beggining is slow, but soon enough the pacing gets rolling. We just have to wait for it a bit, I guess, haha
 
Jan 26, 11:53 PM
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nanashi796 said:
welcum2savage said:
people think cordelia is a joke character bc thats literally how yukimura portrays her. Im sorry but this manga isnt the dark gritty seinen it used to be.
thorkell is the joke character in this chapter not cordelia and the manga is far more deep and mature now than in the prologue.

how is cordelia a joke character, this page sums up what vinland saga is all about


and btw baltic war arc have some of the best and deep pages of all the manga like this one,this is mature.

the entire premise of her character is a joke and it makes it feel like he is satirising his own story by making a character act serious about something thats a complete joke. Thats classic yukimura humour. Ffs look at her design. Look at her introduction last chapter. The entire thing is a joke and its terrible.
And even the serious side of it is incredibly misinformed and bad. First of all why tf is there a transgender character in a viking setting? Second of all he is claiming that being brought up as a girl makes you a girl which is the antithesis of trans, and third of all her character design could be seen as very offensive to trans ppl. Yukimura has trued to be inclusive while unintentionally doing the opposite bc he has no idea what hes talking about. He needs to stay away from sjw shit online the feminist stuff earlier on in the story was already way too much and lazily done.
Modified by welcum2savage, Jan 26, 11:59 PM
 
Jan 27, 12:53 PM

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Dropping this goofy character into the cast and then expecting me to take her backstory seriously is massively foolish move.

I somehow feel like it will degrade even more after they start the journey but I really hope that the manga will get back on track with it's mood once they set sail to Vinland.
Modified by midascruzer, Jan 28, 9:11 AM
 
Jan 27, 10:21 PM

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i get that cordelia's supposed to be a serious character but her design makes it hard for me to take her seriously.
AnimeFreak-San said:
is this a male gender issure...human issue...mental illness perhaps?
 
Jan 28, 2:31 AM

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I can see that Cordelia gender might be an issue for some people but it doesn’t really matter, her strength is needed in Vinland. I can also imagine her meeting Thorkell at some point.
 
Jan 28, 9:14 AM

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mneav3 said:
I can see that Cordelia gender might be an issue for some people but it doesn’t really matter, her strength is needed in Vinland. I can also imagine her meeting Thorkell at some point.


It's not about her gender.
She was introduced like a clown. Can you really imagine this scenario in a viking setting?
It could have been a man with her demeanor and the results would have been the same.

It really was played off as a joke. I mean she has stubble and presumably a manly voice....
Modified by midascruzer, Jan 28, 9:18 AM
 
Jan 28, 12:04 PM
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I loved when Yukimura wrote a nuanced discution about violence in farmland with the contrast of Thorfinn and Canute, now this chapter was an example of a badly written conflict, there's a clear line between good and evil here and the reaction of the characters to Cordelia was unnatural to the setting. I know Yukimura is capable of writting a far better script, so I hope this arc will be at least interesting.
 
Jan 28, 5:35 PM
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GreenEmu said:
What a nosedive this series has done. Can't believe Yukimura skipped Greece for this garbage.


Right ? What the hell has happened to Vinland ?? You're telling me Thorkell didn't have enough brain cells to check if his own child has a god damn penis between his legs ? Ridiculous.
 
Jan 29, 1:57 AM

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Lmao i thought this was a fake chapter made by some fan to troll readers. What a joke this has become
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Jan 29, 7:39 AM
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Damn, how can you guys be so patient, started reading less than a week ago and now I see that I have to wait a month, a week is fine, but a month, like an arc takes years in that case
 
Jan 31, 5:51 AM
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I get that Cordelia design would seem out of place at first glance, but remember that this the child of Thorkell. You know, the guy who is big as a bear, with the mannerisms of a school girl and has a broom for a hair. I'm sure we can settle.


welcum2savage said:

And even the serious side of it is incredibly misinformed and bad. First of all why tf is there a transgender character in a viking setting? Second of all he is claiming that being brought up as a girl makes you a girl which is the antithesis of trans, and third of all her character design could be seen as very offensive to trans ppl. Yukimura has trued to be inclusive while unintentionally doing the opposite bc he has no idea what hes talking about. He needs to stay away from sjw shit online the feminist stuff earlier on in the story was already way too much and lazily done.

The concept of Transgander is not a modern invention. The word is, but the idea of identifying yourself as the opposite gender you were born with is as old as Ancient Mesopotamia. Is it really so hard to believe that such individuals could exist in the Viking age?

Also, I'm not sure what you are on about with the "feminist stuff earlier on in the story". If anything, Yukimura did not portray women's role in Viking society correctly. The reality is that Scandinavian women had more autonomy and opportunities during that point in history, which is not shown in the manga. (But to be fair, this was not widely known by the time he began to write the series)
 
Jan 31, 1:04 PM

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nanashi796 said:
welcum2savage said:
people think cordelia is a joke character bc thats literally how yukimura portrays her. Im sorry but this manga isnt the dark gritty seinen it used to be.
thorkell is the joke character in this chapter not cordelia and the manga is far more deep and mature now than in the prologue.

how is cordelia a joke character, this page sums up what vinland saga is all about


and btw baltic war arc have some of the best and deep pages of all the manga like this one,this is mature.




What i think many people have a problem with is the change of tone in the series. Cordelia is a joke character even if her themes fit the story, just look at her design and her introduction.
The backstory was neat but its the same with the introduction of Hild and more of the later introduced characters, i need to see more before i judge. For now i think this was one of the worst chapters of the whole series. Comedy never was a strong side anyway.

To the 2nd panel you posted, i think that literally says nothing about how "deep" the baltic sea arc was. Most basic war movies have scenes like that and that scene does nothing special,taking 2 characters no one cares about is not deep, even god damn Battlefield 1 had a scene like that in the tutorial.
Modified by Mullerio, Jan 31, 1:09 PM
 
Jan 31, 2:10 PM

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Mullerio said:
nanashi796 said:
thorkell is the joke character in this chapter not cordelia and the manga is far more deep and mature now than in the prologue.

how is cordelia a joke character, this page sums up what vinland saga is all about


and btw baltic war arc have some of the best and deep pages of all the manga like this one,this is mature.




What i think many people have a problem with is the change of tone in the series. Cordelia is a joke character even if her themes fit the story, just look at her design and her introduction.
The backstory was neat but its the same with the introduction of Hild and more of the later introduced characters, i need to see more before i judge. For now i think this was one of the worst chapters of the whole series. Comedy never was a strong side anyway.

To the 2nd panel you posted, i think that literally says nothing about how "deep" the baltic sea arc was. Most basic war movies have scenes like that and that scene does nothing special,taking 2 characters no one cares about is not deep, even god damn Battlefield 1 had a scene like that in the tutorial.
the tone of the series reflects thorfinn emotional state at that moment,who judge a character by the design and introduction is an idiot,that second panel is a masterpiece it sums up all the themes of the manga in one page.
this is thorfinn right now
Modified by nanashi796, Jan 31, 2:13 PM
 
Feb 3, 4:21 PM

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nanashi796 said:

this is thorfinn right now


Thorfinn character development is insane 😭😩❤️
 
Feb 4, 5:46 PM

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Thorkell's illustration was pretty hilarious.

Good chapter. I can see why people think of Cordelia as a joke, but how is a biological son of Thorkell that was raised as a girl supposed to look like. I admit that her gestic while eating the soup and the reactions were an amusing gag, but that's about it. Her story is interesting and ties in well into the themes. Looking forward to more.
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Feb 4, 10:33 PM
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nanashi796 said:
Mullerio said:



What i think many people have a problem with is the change of tone in the series. Cordelia is a joke character even if her themes fit the story, just look at her design and her introduction.
The backstory was neat but its the same with the introduction of Hild and more of the later introduced characters, i need to see more before i judge. For now i think this was one of the worst chapters of the whole series. Comedy never was a strong side anyway.

To the 2nd panel you posted, i think that literally says nothing about how "deep" the baltic sea arc was. Most basic war movies have scenes like that and that scene does nothing special,taking 2 characters no one cares about is not deep, even god damn Battlefield 1 had a scene like that in the tutorial.
the tone of the series reflects thorfinn emotional state at that moment,who judge a character by the design and introduction is an idiot,that second panel is a masterpiece it sums up all the themes of the manga in one page.
this is thorfinn right now
ok if cordelia doesnt end up as a comic relief character ill admit that you were right and im an idiot. And vice versa. Hows that?
 
Feb 12, 6:10 AM
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welcum2savage said:
nanashi796 said:
the tone of the series reflects thorfinn emotional state at that moment,who judge a character by the design and introduction is an idiot,that second panel is a masterpiece it sums up all the themes of the manga in one page.
this is thorfinn right now
ok if cordelia doesnt end up as a comic relief character ill admit that you were right and im an idiot. And vice versa. Hows that?
how can you admit to be the idiot in the argument and then call the other person an idiot as well.
 
Feb 12, 6:12 AM
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Hatsuyuki said:
GreenEmu said:
What a nosedive this series has done. Can't believe Yukimura skipped Greece for this garbage.


Right ? What the hell has happened to Vinland ?? You're telling me Thorkell didn't have enough brain cells to check if his own child has a god damn penis between his legs ? Ridiculous.
he probably didn't care enough to look at that stuff which fits his character.
 
Feb 12, 6:20 AM
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Black_Sheep97 said:
Hatsuyuki said:


Right ? What the hell has happened to Vinland ?? You're telling me Thorkell didn't have enough brain cells to check if his own child has a god damn penis between his legs ? Ridiculous.
he probably didn't care enough to look at that stuff which fits his character.


He may be a war loving maniac but I assure you, he's not a moron.
 
Feb 12, 6:22 AM
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Hatsuyuki said:
Black_Sheep97 said:
he probably didn't care enough to look at that stuff which fits his character.


He may be a war loving maniac but I assure you, he's not a moron.
hes not a moron and he's probably never seen a trans women before he just saw a penis and got excited only it wasn't what he saw, hes not a moron but he is hyperactive.
Modified by Black_Sheep97, Feb 12, 6:34 AM
 
Feb 12, 6:23 AM
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Shadzzo said:
Lmao i thought this was a fake chapter made by some fan to troll readers. What a joke this has become
what was so bad about i thought cordelia had an interesting backstory
 
Feb 12, 6:29 AM
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GVG said:
I loved when Yukimura wrote a nuanced discution about violence in farmland with the contrast of Thorfinn and Canute, now this chapter was an example of a badly written conflict, there's a clear line between good and evil here and the reaction of the characters to Cordelia was unnatural to the setting. I know Yukimura is capable of writting a far better script, so I hope this arc will be at least interesting.
what was so bad about the reaction of the characters to cordelia circumstances?
 
Feb 12, 5:00 PM
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Black_Sheep97 said:
GVG said:
I loved when Yukimura wrote a nuanced discution about violence in farmland with the contrast of Thorfinn and Canute, now this chapter was an example of a badly written conflict, there's a clear line between good and evil here and the reaction of the characters to Cordelia was unnatural to the setting. I know Yukimura is capable of writting a far better script, so I hope this arc will be at least interesting.
what was so bad about the reaction of the characters to cordelia circumstances?

they're in the 11th century, an age where even the most liberal man is a conservative in the eyes of the modern world , why they should accept a trans character, even nowadays most of people think it's strange subject.
 
Feb 14, 7:00 AM

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I don't really see an issue here, it was a funny chapter and writing this kind of character into a series like Vinland Saga and still having it make sense and not be complete bullshit is good writing in my opinion. Has Yukimura gone WOKE? I'd say to a certain degree but he's far more nuanced about it and doesn't let it result in any inconsistencies. Thorfinn and his group are pretty accepting of people, I really can't see them turning Cordelia away for being a freak but the series doesn't just completely bullshit you and pretend that there's nothing weird about this person or situation, it doesn't morally grandstand about anything either.
Now, the real reason this shouldn't be in the series isn't because of historical inaccuracy since it makes perfect sense given the backstory or because Yukimura is getting too woke, it's because once you open the Woke Gates, you're never woke enough, you will be continuously shit upon if you let the woke brigade into your fanbase because nothing you do or say will ever be good enough for them. I am 100% positive that this depiction will be called out as transphobic in the future if it hasn't been already. I have no issue with including a trans character, I just feel bad that doing that will get you branded as a shit person by a loud minority even if most transpeople are okay with it, they deserve better than retards screaming over them and it sucks that benevolent acts are treated as malevolent ones if certain people don't like it.
 
Feb 14, 4:46 PM

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I finally caught up after binging this for a week . Great manga I just wish this manga also focused more on Canute I love the first two arcs very much and third arc has its moments not that great but still good but I don't like this sudden timeskip and what's happening right now I wish writer make this more realistic like it was before instead of making it happy go lucky adventure
 
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