| It’s been a looong time since I’ve made a topic about religion, but for whatever reason, here’s one. Ok, so since I was raised Christian and it’s the religion I know VERY well...I wanted to talk about having your “sins” forgiven. Now, in Christianity almost EVERYTHING is a sin...no joke...but the way it works is if you confess your sins and repent no matter how bad the sins were, you will be forgiven. Of course the whole purpose of having your sins forgiven is so you DON’T go to hell...since IF you die a “sinner” you go to hell. Anyways...does this even make sense? You can do all types of fucked up shit and you’re forgiven or “absolved” just by confessing/repenting? And this is supposed to be the almighty god’s ultimate justice?! Hitler (yup I’m breaking Godwin’s law immediately) could’ve repented at the very end and gone to heaven IF Christianity is real! Think about that. |
| Better change that title to “Having your “sins” forgiven...does it even make sense according to christianity?”. Just wanna point that out cause you’re discussing Christianity’s take on sins. |
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| Thankfully I'm not Christian, because my whole existence is already a sin itself. I would have been desintagrated by a holy lightning for a long time |
| It is a weird assumption that you're sinful until confessed otherwise. I'd say I'm essentially a good person, but apparently, me and everyone else are going to hell by default? Christianity's really depressing isn't it? |
| I used to be Catholic, but I've switched to being agnostic and part of it was because I don't like the idea of believing you have to be forgiven for every small petty thing. If you murder someone, you shouldn't just go to confession. You should go apologize to the person's family. You're right, pretty much everything according to the Catholic faith is seen as a sin. I don't like this idea personally because it can lead to large amounts of guilt. Why should I feel guilty for having sexual thoughts about people? Why should I feel guilty for not listening to my parents if they hit me? That sort of thing. There's also the fact that everybody makes mistakes and we should learn from them. Not just beg for forgiveness. We shouldn't feel guilty for making mistakes. After all, we're human. Why should I ask for forgiveness for doing something that everybody does? |
  Life has no meaning, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't live it  |
| According to Christianity your whole existence is one big sin because your parents have had sex in order to conceive you unlike Virgin Mary and her immaculate conception by the Holy Spirit (not the AV). Now you should spend your life according to jehova's will else you go to hell for a perpetual spanking and if you manage to please him he will let you have sex with his entire harem in kingdom come for all eternity. The Christian way. Basically you should refrain from sinning in the years you are alive for the promise of everlasting debauchery in the afterlife. |
149597871Dec 14, 2019 7:36 AM
| Uhh, yeah. It's called the Jesus Christ. He died as the perfect sacrifice to wash away our sins and He rose again as proof that sin has been overcome. John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Jesus is King. Don't be a cringe atheist and burn in hell for all of eternity because you blasphemed Christ on an anime forum. |
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--ALEX-- said: It’s been a looong time since I’ve made a topic about religion, but for whatever reason, here’s one. Ok, so since I was raised Christian and it’s the religion I know VERY well...I wanted to talk about having your “sins” forgiven. Now, in Christianity almost EVERYTHING is a sin...no joke...but the way it works is if you confess your sins and repent no matter how bad the sins were, you will be forgiven. Of course the whole purpose of having your sins forgiven is so you DON’T go to hell...since IF you die a “sinner” you go to hell. Anyways...does this even make sense? You can do all types of fucked up shit and you’re forgiven or “absolved” just by confessing/repenting? And this is supposed to be the almighty god’s ultimate justice?! Hitler (yup I’m breaking Godwin’s law immediately) could’ve repented at the very end and gone to heaven IF Christianity is real! Think about that. But thats just one of the branches of Christianity, the others are less forgiving |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Maneki-Mew said: My first problem with this is: People don't regret their wrongdoings because they are sorry. They pretend to be sorry, because they believe in hell and want to save their own ass. If I actually and sincerely regret something, wouldn't I ask for forgiveness by the person I treated wrongly, not God? Or at least have a bad conscience towards this person? For stuff like mass murderer, rape etc. there shouldn't be forgiviness anyway. It sounds too simpel. My next problem with this is and this will be longer now: Everything is a sin, as he said, even if nobody got hurt directly or indirectly. Even the seven deadly sins per se aren't "sins". Anger, lust, greed, leeling lazy, etc. alone don't hurt people. Only if your actions lead to hurting people. These "sins" alone are normal feelings that are healthy and I dislike Christianity (if it's lived in this traditional form), because they shame people for being human and blame them for making healthy human experiences. And as you said everything is a sin. I remember that we were being told that being vain (vain like caring for your appearance or having a lot of self-esteem) is bad and people, in these cases girls, should be "modest". Truth is Christianity was founded two milleniums ago and in medieval times the religion was designed to control people with fear of the purgaroty and systematically installing self-loathing for everything they think, feel and do in them. ? https://prnt.sc/qasw0f Was there something you wanted? |
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| How have the times changed? Now religiosity is what's cool in the internet. |
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| I am not Christian, but I believe there should be some level of sins... and going to a priest totally shouldn't make up for any crime... |
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--ALEX-- said: the whole purpose of having your sins forgiven is so you DON’T go to hell The whole purpose of repenting is trying to become a better person. Not trying to save your ass from hell. It is not a ticket. Hitler wouldn't have went to heaven just by repenting, he would have needed to have a full change of heart just like Paul or the thief on the cross did. Maneki-Mew said: They pretend to be sorry, because they believe in hell and want to save their own ass. is someone's regret even worth it, if they do it for their own egocentric reasons? Jesus himself despised these kinds of people. Maneki-Mew said: the seven deadly sins per se aren't "sins". Anger, lust, greed, feeling lazy, etc. alone don't hurt people. Only if your actions lead to hurting people. These "sins" alone are normal feelings that are healthy The term "seven deadly sins" is not a part of the bible. It was never said that these emotions are sins, but the actions it conceives are. Maneki-Mew said: And as you said, everything is a sin.. vain like caring for your appearance or having a lot of self-esteem is bad I got a homosexual crush, am I bad now? omg, I felt jealousy, I shouldn't All of these are not part of the bible. Having a high-self esteem, nor jealousy nor having a homosexual crush isn't a sin by itself, but it could lead to it. |
-ShinzoDec 14, 2019 12:43 PM
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| The idea behind it is that the confession is supposed to be difficult for the confessor, because faith is presumed. If you believe that you did something wrong, then you'd have a hard time admitting it. Go through that exercise a few times, and you'll automatically develop an aversion to stuff that makes you go through this exercise (confession). Repentance works because of the psychology behind it, not because it actually erases your wrongdoings. The idea is to reinforce an attitude of sin-avoidance. On the other hand though, if you simply believe that you can do all kinds of crazy shit and get away with it after a confession, then your faith is not sincere therefore your confession is void. But then again, if you have no faith, why even confess? There's a flaw with this algorithm that you point out with Hitler but given the gain over the losses, it works pretty well. |
| Sin is a made up idea to trick gullible people into joining cults and giving them money. |
| no, it doesn't make sense, as religion does not make sense. if you want to get the weight off your shoulders about a crime you've committed, tell the police, not a priest. |
| Discussing sense in religion is like discussing philosophy in science, Useless. |
| Repentance is to realize what you have done and feel regret for what you've done and trying to better yourself toward the ideal image. Pretending to feel bad and pretending to change is not really repentance. This makes perfect sense in it's proper expression when it is the case for things that were actual wrongdoings. The only problem with repenting in theological context is the contrition of things people shouldn't have to feel guilty over. |
| Truely admitting that you sinned then ask for God's forgiveness and trying to deceive yourself are close but not exactly the same. |
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| Sins don't need to be forgiven. Use it as a reminder to be better in anyway if you're weighted, then exercise the futility of that reality to make something of that anywhere in anyway. God gives strength to those who are willing, to the religious. |
 Enen no Shouboutai - Joker |
| No, it's just brainwashing into people that only the church can save you from hell. Of course the downside is that people who believe it, ie priests think they can fiddle 8 year old boys and then be forgiven after. It's a very dangerous thing to say. |
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| The purpose is to promote reform for the sake of social stability, as well as to promote and take advantage of guilt to become culturally attached to the church. A good method of control. This way you don't have people thinking they've done something so bad they cannot try and change themselves for the better and will try and help others to do it, and that increases stability in a society, in their eyes. |
 I can see you |
| I don't see any need to fear or avoid sin. It's true that some religious figures have used the concept of sin to control people, someone who is afraid to sin can be told what to think very easily. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| The curious thing is than the tegret isn't depend from a more mature thought, but from the fear of a eternal punishment, and sincerely I think than also in the past when people was generally more near to religion, many of this didn't believe really to paradise and hell, because if you think there is a place like hell, you do attention to your actions :D |
| Think of it more of an apology: if you truly do apologise for something, then you can be reformed as a person. Reforming obviously exists and bad people can essentially become better people. And if you apologise falsely, then that isn't even 'apologising' in the first place. Forgiveness isn't just a word, but a promise that said bad thing shouldn't occur again. And I don't think that people are intentionally going to do bad knowing that it is bad, just then to 'ask for forgiveness'. That just makes no sense. Obviously, it's trying to comfort people when they make 'accidents' to stop them from guilting themselves too much and to overcome the sins. Maneki-Mew said: Vanity is extremely close to narcissism, not just caring for your health.I remember that we were being told that being vain (vain like caring for your appearance or having a lot of self-esteem) is bad @UnipolarUnicorn you sound like a very honourable person. I appreciate that. Positivity doesn't seem to coexist with theists and atheists as it should. |
BunilleDec 15, 2019 3:19 PM
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| @Maneki-Mew And... do all religious people think that way? Do any non-religious people think that way? The answer is yes to the latter and you are objectifying. "Of course such an old teacher only repeats what she has learned herself as a kid" - that can be said for literally everyone. One who knows nothing can understand nothing. Just as much as one who knows something can only understand that certain something. People only speak of as much as they know and were growing up with, because that's them, whether good or bad. If it isn't stoning, trust me, it's not that bad. |
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| the lesser evil or less severe wrongdoings should be forgiven imo but greater evil like genocide that Hitler wants? ye that is unforgivable |
Maneki-Mew said: U p b r i n g i n g s.Do all religious people think that way? No, but surely more. Do all non-religious people think other way? No, but they are less of them. "Guys hormones just work like that." No, they don't, believe me, I will know this better (since I take pride, even if many people don't like that wird / trait, in stuff I studied for years) and I'm sick of that unscientific and sexist shit. The truth is: people are trained to believe that unscientific shit, because it's repeated all over again. Please, forcing someone to change for the 'better' is not easy at all. Definitely not if it's a childhood belief. Rejecting religion would be as if rejecting their own family, and also rejecting the God they ever-so worship. And it's peer pressure. I know it's not going crazy. Obviously. But tendencies for lust is a thing for young people; especially boys. Male sex drive peaks at a younger age than female sex drive does. If children are not taught to not do things like that as a young teenager, maybe even younger, then you're asking for trouble. Children are too inquisitive and will ruin themselves during their processing development. What is the true scientific thing, then? Maneki-Mew said: Yes, but also no. We've evolved to be these materialistic beings that derive pleasure from objects that generally come to free for us when we never made or blueprinted them in the first place.The true self is that, what you want to show the world. You can't help, if you don't like your hair color or fancy mini skirts or make up or anything. All of this is its own kind of art and a big part of your self-expression. The old modesty-belief is just taking the freedom and pride of especially young women away and tell them they shouldn't be, although they should get a free choice how they choose their self-expression. Hair colour doesn't change into a green naturally, no matter what. It's all just immensely unnatural. And by the way, imagine having not even enough money to feed yourself. I don't think those people will be wanting those kinds of things anytime soon; they just want something in their hands that can make them survive and stay healthy enough. Now that's what I call a 2019 feminist. I'm joking. Free choice, yes, but to not embarrass yourself or to turn your gender into a dragon. By the way, your true self is who you were born as; not who you aspire to become. My sig also states similar. Maneki-Mew said: And do you know how immensely difficult that is? You can't just tell someone to not do something, it doesn't work like that. Oh, I've tried.It is bad. Just because you have been brought up one way, doesn't mean you couldn't question it and step out of your line. I understand for old people (kind of). You could question ideals that are made millenials ago. And they have been my age, so it has nothing to do with older people; older people just have the most differing opinions than us, and that's why we notice it more. (Why can I still think at almost 2am? Quoting confuses me, quite off-topic.) |
BunilleDec 15, 2019 5:56 PM
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| Playing God's advocate (lol) for a second here: It's not about simply confessing/repenting. It has to be real, from the bottom of your mind, heart and soul. A true realization that you did things you should never had, along with the promisse of change (which, at that point, it techinically already started happening). For God, heaven and hell are not about you having sinned or not, is about whether there's enough "good" within you or not. To truly and wholeheartedly regret your sins, for God, is a sign that there's still enough "good" within you that your soul can yet be saved. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| Christianity is a religion of forgiveness. They believe if you have a genuine change of heart and want to be a better person that you should be forgiven for whoever you were in the past. |
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149597871 said: According to Christianity your whole existence is one big sin because your parents have had sex in order to conceive you unlike Virgin Mary and her immaculate conception by the Holy Spirit (not the AV). Now you should spend your life according to jehova's will else you go to hell for a perpetual spanking and if you manage to please him he will let you have sex with his entire harem in kingdom come for all eternity. The Christian way. Basically you should refrain from sinning in the years you are alive for the promise of everlasting debauchery in the afterlife. Interestingly I haven't seen acknowledgement of people born of invetrofertilization since technically they are born without the original sin which seems to be sex if you take Genesis as symbolic. |
traed said: 149597871 said: According to Christianity your whole existence is one big sin because your parents have had sex in order to conceive you unlike Virgin Mary and her immaculate conception by the Holy Spirit (not the AV). Now you should spend your life according to jehova's will else you go to hell for a perpetual spanking and if you manage to please him he will let you have sex with his entire harem in kingdom come for all eternity. The Christian way. Basically you should refrain from sinning in the years you are alive for the promise of everlasting debauchery in the afterlife. Interestingly I haven't seen acknowledgement of people born of invetrofertilization since technically they are born without the original sin which seems to be sex if you take Genesis as symbolic. There might be some controversies but it is considered a sin as well since it is some sort of cheating and "playing god", etc. |
| I'm more about restorative and reformative justice than punitive. If you've wronged someone, you've adequately made up for it after changing your behavior and having given proper restitution to the person you wronged. The notion that belief in God is sufficient and/or necessary in order to avoid torment and reach paradise is something I find far more reprehensible than the limited sense in which God is forgiving. |
| God: This man is terrible, I will reserve a spot for anyone who ends his reign of terror! Hitler: I'm gonna do what's called a "pro gamer move".. |
Maneki-Mew said: Viltas said: God: This man is terrible, I will reserve a spot for anyone who ends his reign of terror! Hitler: I'm gonna do what's called a "pro gamer move".. Ha no! Suicide is a terrible sin. ... unfortunately. People are so desperated that they commit suicide, but the loving christianity will burn their soul for not seeing another way out. Some churches reject the idea of seeing suicide as a sin these days. But in general it makes perfect sense why it is interpreted as one. I agree with Augustines interpretation. Following the commandment not to kill is definitely including suicide. But we live in relatively tame times. After all, commiting suicide at some point meant that you would be denied a christian burial and attempting one often resulted in excommunication. Obviously that is a terribly cold aspect of christianity, I've never been a literal interpreter of religion anyways. I see it as something enriching when interpreted accordingly and adaptively regardless. Also edit: With Augustines interpretation, a firm believer can see this as a definite source of strength. After all, what better way to appreciate your life than boundaries that entirely reject the act? But it being the psychological difficulty it is, I can definitely see why it adds to the isolation. |
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