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#1
Dec 6, 2019 9:03 AM

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And if you believe it can, what's your affinity percentage with other people who objectively score things?
Which objective scorer is objectively more correct? How do we determine this?
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but it's probably going to involve frogs. I freakin' hate those things."
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#2
Dec 6, 2019 9:46 AM

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Art is subjective and stuff that is technically flawless like Bouguereau's paintings for example can be held in low regard by some
I really enjoy those "helicopter ride" memes
 
#3
Dec 6, 2019 9:59 AM

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Highly doubt this thread is going to end this academic back and forth, but the answer to the question is you can objectively evaluate something, but whether you care or not is a separate issue.
 
#4
Dec 6, 2019 10:01 AM
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The short answer : NO
Long answer : I won't bother, I just feel sleepy.
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#5
Dec 6, 2019 10:12 AM

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i objectively rate anime by the amount of cute girls
 
#6
Dec 6, 2019 10:17 AM

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Can it? Yes
Will it ever be? Probably not
I rate based off of enjoyment, so if I don't enjoy it, it doesn't matter if it's good, I'm just not giving it a high rating.
Once you realize that what others think about what you enjoy doesn't matter, you will finally be free

 
#7
Dec 6, 2019 10:20 AM
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I don't think they can. There aren't any objective factors which make one anime better or worse than another, because all the factors that make an anime good are opinion-based. You can't objectively say the plots are interesting or boring. You can't objectively say the characters are likeable or not. You can't objectively say the jokes (in comedic shows) are funny or not. You can't objectively say the fight scenes (in more action-centered shows) are exciting or fall flat. You can't objectively say the emotional moments work or fail. And so on and so forth.
 
#8
Dec 6, 2019 10:22 AM
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you can only make it somewhat objective by aggregating scores like MAL does but even that is about general reception of all kinds of subjective perception of the viewers
 
#9
Dec 6, 2019 10:26 AM

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Anime can be objectively criticized on the basis of production qualities and writing quirks. How people interpret the story and the themes will always be different and is always where people will disagree. What matters most to one will not always matter much to others. But there is always an objective truth to how well an anime is tangibly made.
Stay Strong, KyoAni.
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:31 AM

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IMO: there is no need for that.Anime isn't supposed to be taken that serious, just enjoy it and rate based on your enjoyment.We are mostly just avarage fans, not critics.
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:33 AM

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You can score it with 'objective' criteria but how you score and weight those criteria won't be objective.
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:33 AM
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raisin-kun said:
Anime can be objectively criticized on the basis of production qualities and writing quirks.


you mean like sakuga? its also controversial though like Pain vs Naruto episode is

sakuga is good animation but objectively defining good animation is almost impossible
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:46 AM

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deg said:
raisin-kun said:
Anime can be objectively criticized on the basis of production qualities and writing quirks.


you mean like sakuga? its also controversial though like Pain vs Naruto episode is

sakuga is good animation but objectively defining good animation is almost impossible


Not just something that specific. Just talking about how consistent the characters are drawn (off-model or not) or how well the background is constructed (like if they follow the parallel line rule, the 180 degree rule etc.) This is basic stuff that people don't appreciate enough and you can really tell if an anime payed attention to itself by looking at these details.
Stay Strong, KyoAni.
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:48 AM

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Of course, so long as it's me scoring it.
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:49 AM

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Kind of but not really. Art does have some objective merits. Like for instance regarding writing we can agree that plot holes are errors that the author didn't account for. That said in large part our feelings to a series are going to be made up of our biases. Even objective flaws we are going to weight differently depending on how much we feel it impacts the story.
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:50 AM

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I think the scoring is less about being objective and more about "This is how much I enjoyed or didn't enjoy x series", and affinity is just an approximation of how much an individual's taste/enjoyment matches up with others based on what they've seen.
“Loddfafnir, listen to my counsel: You will fare well if you follow it, It will help you much if you heed it. If aware that another is wicked, say so: Make no truce or treaty with foes.” - Havamal 127
 
Dec 6, 2019 10:52 AM

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What people like in anime is subjective so it's only logical to infer from that scores are subjective as well.




愛することは何もありません。愛されることは何かがあります。でも、愛することと愛されることは全てです。

 
Dec 6, 2019 10:56 AM

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I am very objective when I rate my anime!! I give cute girls and lesbians 10/10 YEEEES!!! Lesbians deserves 10/10 especially if they kiss!!!

No I dont think objectively exist when It come to humans! We all have something we prefer and will favour media that play along to our taste!!



Modified by Yuri-Crusader, Dec 6, 2019 11:22 AM
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Dec 6, 2019 10:58 AM

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I believe in the absolute subjectivism of anime, or any other form of art in general. Anime are though to give you entertaining and the entertaining is something completely subjective. That’s my opinion.
 
Dec 6, 2019 11:04 AM
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romagia said:
i objectively rate anime by the amount of cute girls


But does that include how cute the girls are or just the number? Can a show have one really cute girl that increases its standing above shows that have more girls over all?
 
Dec 6, 2019 11:06 AM

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Ben_JRC said:
romagia said:
i objectively rate anime by the amount of cute girls


But does that include how cute the girls are or just the number? Can a show have one really cute girl that increases its standing above shows that have more girls over all?
the number of course
anything else would be too subjective except maybe in cases of heavy screen time discrepancy (poor hidamari newcomers :(), as those too can be objectively measured
 
Dec 6, 2019 11:16 AM
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Depends on if the anime has cute boys. If so the. 10/10 if not then 0/10




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Dec 6, 2019 11:22 AM

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Freshell said:
Which objective scorer is objectively more correct? How do we determine this?


This is officially one of the biggest mystery of the world. This debate exist since forever. Many have dedicated their whole career and whole life into elucidating this mystery. That question is the fundamental structure which allowed the emergence of the main religion that still exist today. Even with our entire scientific knowledge we're still very far away to scratch the surface of the shocking truth behind that question.
 
Dec 6, 2019 11:31 AM

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If their top 10 looks cool they probably rate objectively, that's how I determine who are the most objective critics
poop
 
Dec 6, 2019 11:39 AM

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Freshell said:
Which objective scorer is objectively more correct?

I pose myself as the best of critics for I am unmistakably superior to the common man!


Alpha_Tranny said:
Depends on if the anime has cute boys. If so the. 10/10 if not then 0/10
Cute boys increase one's cravings for higher scores.

The one who hath not perused his way through Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu ought not to partake in the scoring shenanigans!


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Dec 6, 2019 11:43 AM
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At the end of the day I think it comes down to what we think quality is. Sure there's a pretty common correlation: good animation, good characters, driving story. But the problem everyone's going to run into is that what you consider to be of the highest quality will probably not be what you praise and re-watch again and again. Their are shows I think are perfect in every way, but I can't call them my favorite, not even top 10. Then I think about my favorite shows and I can admit with honesty they are super flawed.
A good comparison is video games, Red Dead Redemption is the BEST game I've ever played, but Fallout 3 will always be my FAVORITE, even though it's flawed as hell. I think objective implies more than one persons input, because everyone at some point or later finds a 20-carat diamond dull and a dime-a-dozen quartz to be the most beautiful thing in the world.
 
Dec 6, 2019 11:45 AM

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Yes. Anime with cute girls can objectively be considered as masterpiece. 10/10.
Rem best girl
 
Dec 6, 2019 12:11 PM

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No. Nothing that comes from an artistic medium can ever be assessed from a truly objective perspective. Period.

The most one can hope for is a general consensus, comprised of several people's opinions (which can only be subjective), on whether something may be good or bad.
Modified by Stygian_Prisoner, Dec 6, 2019 12:29 PM
 
Dec 6, 2019 12:18 PM

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you can score by success through units sold, raw revenue, or total equity gained
Modified by Aure0lin, Dec 6, 2019 1:39 PM
"I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says.
I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby".
"She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other."
 
Dec 6, 2019 12:29 PM
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no because anime is an art form and art is subjective. you can give it individual scores but even if something is the highest rated of all time not everyone will like it. Also the heights rated anime of all time is most likely not most peoples all time favorite,
 
Dec 6, 2019 1:31 PM

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the only good anime is King of the Hill.
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Dec 6, 2019 1:41 PM

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Yes but if you care is a different matter.

I mean plotholes can be objectively found but if thay matter in your enjoyment is something entirely different
 
Dec 6, 2019 1:54 PM
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A pandoran box of a question...
Not, it cannot be objectively scored. Critique is required for objectivity, and proper critique does not with something as one-dimensional as numbers. Just by this notion ratings are meaningless in terms of objective criticism, while reviews which honestly address series based on general criteria, long existing in the history of art, should be read widely.
This ratings nonsense is a toddler's level of discussion. Reading reviews and individually addressing the points in them for yourself would benefit the character of many people.
Aure0lin said:
you can score by success through units sold, raw revenue, or total equity gained

Commercial success and artistic success are two different matters, however. Not seldom either one cannot be attributed to a series.
Re:formed
 
Dec 6, 2019 2:02 PM

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It can be objectively scored, but even objectively scoring might weight different aspects when giving the score. But I think everyone can say that they have enjoyed a show that was pretty bad. Or that they didn't enjoy something although it was well-made and they understand why other people did.

I don't try to be 100% objective when scoring. I want to be fair and I'm not just basing it on my own enjoyment, but I think that my list is mostly for me, including the scores i give. So it needs to be subjective and personal.

 
Dec 6, 2019 2:04 PM

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I don't think so, because rating things is subjective by default. You may have a set of "objective" standards you follow in order to rate something, but even they are subjective to some degree.
 
Dec 6, 2019 2:09 PM
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raisin-kun said:
deg said:


you mean like sakuga? its also controversial though like Pain vs Naruto episode is

sakuga is good animation but objectively defining good animation is almost impossible


Not just something that specific. Just talking about how consistent the characters are drawn (off-model or not) or how well the background is constructed (like if they follow the parallel line rule, the 180 degree rule etc.) This is basic stuff that people don't appreciate enough and you can really tell if an anime payed attention to itself by looking at these details.


in-between frames are usually the ones screenshotted by fans to prove offmodel chracter drawings though and they rarely focus on still frames
 
Dec 6, 2019 2:33 PM

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You absolutely can objectively rate anime. Some anime are better drawn than others. Some anime have an intelligent use of music and others do not. Some anime have brain-dead writing and others do not. There are rules to drawing art, things like perspective, for example. You have to demonstrate an understanding of the rules before you break them. When the rules are broken because of cheap shortcuts and pressing deadlines, it's not fair to say it's just as a good as a truly skillful piece of art.

I'm not saying that how something looks is the final word in anime, however, since a time-consuming, highly detailed style like Patlabor 2 is not appropriate for every anime, and anime with weak visuals but strong in other areas can fare well in my book, just as anime with weak story can be sometimes redeemed by excellent characters, sound and visuals.
 
Dec 6, 2019 4:13 PM

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Nope its impossible in my humble opinion. An objective opinion on something is achieved by a team, not by a solo player.

Every single person is biased in some way or form, in regards to things he likes, dislikes and has no particular opinion on.
 
Dec 6, 2019 5:54 PM

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Daniel_Naumov said:
A pandoran box of a question...
Not, it cannot be objectively scored. Critique is required for objectivity, and proper critique does not with something as one-dimensional as numbers. Just by this notion ratings are meaningless in terms of objective criticism, while reviews which honestly address series based on general criteria, long existing in the history of art, should be read widely.
This ratings nonsense is a toddler's level of discussion. Reading reviews and individually addressing the points in them for yourself would benefit the character of many people.
Aure0lin said:
you can score by success through units sold, raw revenue, or total equity gained

Commercial success and artistic success are two different matters, however. Not seldom either one cannot be attributed to a series.
commercial success is the only way u can attach any kind of objective score to an anime, im aware us hipsters can all still agree that it's shit but there's no other way to quantitatively and impartially score an anime
Modified by Aure0lin, Dec 6, 2019 5:58 PM
"I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says.
I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby".
"She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other."
 
Dec 6, 2019 5:59 PM

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You can create a bot that assigns randomised ratings to randomised entries. That would be pretty objective.
 
Dec 6, 2019 6:05 PM

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Yudina said:
Highly doubt this thread is going to end this academic back and forth, but the answer to the question is you can objectively evaluate something, but whether you care or not is a separate issue.


If you objectively evaluate something, then you have to apply a specific set of standards and rules to every piece of art, the way lawyers and judges do when trying to defend/imprison the defendant. Except if you do apply that way of objective thinking to art, then the critique can arguably miss the point. In fact, the word objective has nothing to do with art, as objective is defined in the dictionary as:

"(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

Gravity exists. That's a fact.
Is a plot hole in a story a bad thing? Well, by some peoples' standards, it doesn't even matter.
When it comes to the art style of something, it gets even more subjective: what makes something look, without a doubt, "good" or "bad"?
There is no source that states using facts and science what makes a piece of art good/bad.
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Dec 6, 2019 6:09 PM

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Maybe but I'm not sure. It's probably too restrictive and you can't make exceptions. Well I could not.
 
Dec 6, 2019 7:04 PM

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How is this even a question? Lol

Even judging an artistic work putting all kinds of personal feelings aside, you're still being subjective, because you're still giving a personal opinion.
 
Dec 6, 2019 7:20 PM

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No                
 
Dec 6, 2019 7:37 PM

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You can choose criteria by which to evaluate something, then rate it objectively based on those criteria. But your choice of criteria is subjective.

Alternatively:

Platypus7 said:
You can score it with 'objective' criteria but how you score and weight those criteria won't be objective.
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Dec 6, 2019 7:37 PM
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Since we live in democracy I would say that the avarage score of a show is the objective score. Does that mean FMA: Brotherhood is better than Steings;gate? NO, but theres a higher chance to like FMA: Brotherhood than to like Steins;gate. Dk if that makes any sense tho...
 
Dec 6, 2019 7:45 PM

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If we try to think "objectively" about the hyper-subjective concept called "objectivism", we are dead forever.
I mean it literally don't make any sense nor it creates an emotion. There is nothing about it which makes us wanna keep thinking about it.(Just try to "objectify" objectivism then you can understand what I am trying to convey..)

And that gives us our highly sought-after answer that is "THERE IS NOTHING IN THIS WORLD WHICH CAN BE DESCRIBED OBJECTIVELY" and the irony is "That's Subjective".
 
Dec 6, 2019 8:47 PM

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I think it can definitely be objectively scored the same way that books (fiction, more specifically), dancing, and other forms of creative expression can be. You can objectively give a score to how well the dialogue and story are written. You can also objectively score animation through things like movement and fight scenes (I think art style is subjective though). There is a criteria through which things can be scored objectively, even if it's not one you agree with.
However, I also think that a purely objective score is kind of stupid because it all depends on enjoyment.
For example, you can have a drama show with the most (objectively) incredible storyline and amazingly developed characters but if the person watching it just doesn't like drama shows they're obviously not going to enjoy it regardless of how objectively good it is.
That also works the other way around. You can have a series with an (objectively) bad story, terrible characters with no personality, and obvious plot holes but there is a decent chance that some people are still going to find it enjoyable.

So yes, anime can be objectively scored but I don't think it should be. I believe having separate objective and subjective scores is the best way to score anime
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Dec 6, 2019 8:48 PM

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You will never be really objective, but at least you can try to it. Critics exist because some people try to be objective (good critics at least), but they will never be really objective, because critic is not science.
 
Dec 6, 2019 9:36 PM

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At this point I kind of think it's a false dichotomy. Objective standards are usually nothing more than the most popular subjective viewpoints. But I don't think everything is subjective either, just that the line between objectivity and subjectivity is blurred, and that the former needs a better definition that doesn't require a truth that is somehow outside of our biased experiences of the world.

If we just say everything is subjective, then you take out a lot of meaning and useful from the world. It would be ignorant of how many things apply to 99% of people in the same way. One could say that, objectively, getting their arm chopped off would be a negative thing. But there's going to be someone, somewhere, some day, in some situation where getting arm chopped off would benefit them. I'd still say the former statement is pretty objective though lol.

But anyway... to more directly address the OP.

"Can anime can be objectively scored?"

Sure, yeah I think so. Not in an absolute way that completely free of subjectivity, but in a way that can be based on metrics which can be widely agreed upon so as to mimic the notion of objectivity to a decent degree such that it could be called "objective".

I think it's a pretty cold and soulless way to analyze art, but one could just focus on the technical aspects of the animation quality, and other aspects like character depth (kinda), elements of character design such as distinctiveness, elements of sound design, etc.

"Which objective scorer is objectively more correct? How do we determine this?"
I don't think it can be determined and I don't even think that one is more correct than the other, for reasons that should be apparent from earlier parts of this comment. If those two people were able to sit down and really bash out an agreed idea of what metrics the were taking in to consideration, they could probably get to a point where they have very similar scores, but never identical.

[EDIT: Rereading my comment, I think I have a better way to put it. It's the attempt to be objective that counts. If someone has done their best to devise a system which tries to remove personal bias, then they are techincally rating in an "objective" way. So in that sense I think 100% people can rate objectively.]

[EDIT2: "I 100% think people can rate objectively", NOT "I think people can rate 100% objectively"]
Modified by YossaRedMage, Dec 6, 2019 9:40 PM
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