you should all fear China censorship instead of Western censorship since they are now the top market of Anime
vegeta8639 said: I trust the Chinese way more than the West not to censor the things I actually care about. I doubt they'll be the ones demanding diversity and an end to attractive females who are also nice, pure and traditional. Imagining being so delusional you think twitter feminists with no real influence are a bigger threat than an evil authoritarian regime with an ever increasing market share. Have you ever SEEN how strict Chinese censorship is? They make even the worst of feminists look like fucking amateurs. I've seen lots of pure delusion but damn that takes the cake. |
CreativeNam3Nov 13, 2019 10:32 AM
Once you realize that what others think about what you enjoy doesn't matter, you will finally be free |
CreativeNam3 said: vegeta8639 said: I trust the Chinese way more than the West not to censor the things I actually care about. I doubt they'll be the ones demanding diversity and an end to attractive females who are also nice, pure and traditional. Imagining being so delusional you think twitter feminists with no real influence are a bigger threat than an evil authoritarian regime with an ever increasing market share. Have you ever SEEN how strict Chinese censorship is? They make even the worst of feminists look like fucking amateurs. I've seen lots of pure delusion but damn that takes the cake. It's not just Twitter feminists and in fact they've already infected the entire American entertainment industry. Have you seen anything made in America from this millennium? Everything has to be diverse (less white) and have "Fuck tradition" and "Fuck (white) men" undertones to it. Lets take a recent show like Demon Slayer. What specifically do you think the Chinese might censor in it? As for the American SJW types, well for starters the entire premise of Nezuko needing a man to protect her can go right out the window. Her personality and lack of speaking is definitely a big no no as well. A girl like that existing must be some twisted power fantasy for incels. Also she's very attractive and the show lacks diversity so lets make her a sassy black trans woman who don't need no man instead. If you're not happy with this change then you're a racist transphobe. Or alternatively they might just leave Nezuko alone and instead make her brother black because her mother remarried or something and then leave only the demons and asshole humans white while "diversifying" the rest of the cast. And I'm not exaggerating even a little bit that this is what they'd do if they had the same power as they do over American media. Maybe they'd be generous and leave one token non evil white character like Zenitsu. He's a complete crybaby most of the time so we can keep him. So which parts do you think the Chinese might censor? Please go ahead. Maybe my mind can be changed. Just to clarify why I'm not worried in the least bit, there's already Chinese comics/shows like Hitori no Shita which are perfectly fine and I don't see any problems even close to the above that Westerners would do. |
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| To simplify how sjw west vs china influence anime... sjw west : Could you please tone down the fan service, I'm offended of how you depict women. We'll tweet and take to the streets and even boycot china : Do as I command or we'll shut you down and arrest you all! Protect the motherland!!! |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Janethan23 said: To simplify how sjw west vs china influence anime... sjw west : Could you please tone down the fan service, I'm offended of how you depict women. Gee, I wish they were that polite to me for liking it and defending its inclusion. But nah, I'm a regressive MGTOW incel basement dweller alt right creepy potential rapist neo-nazi instead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And not a one to pop up and say "Y'know, you're kind of being ridiculous" or treat these kinds of behaviors with anything except absolute passivity or some other form of enabling these people to rush to the forefront of their movement with gratuitous false labeling just for liking something they don't, because ideology is a team sport. At least the question of "Why do people hate us so much?" persists to some degree within that movement, I guess, so at least there's some comedic value to be had. Though most seem happy to dismiss anybody disliking this type of shit or disagreeing with them as some form of sexism or innate prejudice rather than any fault of their own. |
ManabanNov 13, 2019 11:54 AM
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Janethan23 said: To simplify how sjw west vs china influence anime... sjw west : Could you please tone down the fan service, I'm offended of how you depict women. We'll tweet and take to the streets and even boycot china : Do as I command or we'll shut you down and arrest you all! Protect the motherland!!! They aren't that polite when they are defaming you by saying your an evil sexist because you enjoy big breasts or at least assuming you enjoy depictions of women like that because you're disagreeing with them so of course you enjoy women like that. Also changing dialogue and harassing fan artists and actual creators is pretty bad. Oh of course they aren't as scary or bad as an authoritarian government. They would gladly use that power if they had it though. Not pleasant people to discuss with. Pretty much all conversations around sexuality and fanservice suck as they all devolve into ad hominem. I have had one good conversation with someone I disagreed on this topic everything else was toxic garbage. What I hate is the assumption from these people that you even have to enjoy fanservice to want it to be protected from censorship or fans of it to not be attacked for like a certain tag. Guess what I hate most of it with some exceptions. I just don't want artists and fans characters to be roasted at the stake and for actual art to be banned that simple. Eventually they will go after stuff I like to since these movements always have to find a next enemy. So I am going to put my foot down on stuff I don't really care about. As for the top yeah no China is the biggest threat. Granted what they are concerned about is different than the West. Hollywood is already doing this so it is concerning. I haven't seen anything blatant at the moment but you never know anime/manga is getting bigger and bigger there. Anyone who thinks a bunch of idiots in California, Seattle and Austin are as scary as a Statist government known for violent suppression and every human rights violation you can think of is insane. China's influence in international media is something we should all be worried about. The recent NBA thing should be a wake up why their influence could be a cause for concern. |
BilboBaggins365Nov 13, 2019 12:00 PM
Janethan23 said: To simplify how sjw west vs china influence anime... sjw west : Could you please tone down the fan service, I'm offended of how you depict women. We'll tweet and take to the streets and even boycot lol, where i can find that kind of SJW, that would be a nice change of air from the common ones. |
 |
Manaban said: Janethan23 said: To simplify how sjw west vs china influence anime... sjw west : Could you please tone down the fan service, I'm offended of how you depict women. Gee, I wish they were that polite to me for liking it and defending its inclusion. But nah, I'm a regressive MGTOW incel basement dweller alt right creepy potential rapist neo-nazi instead ¯_(ツ)_/¯ And not a one to pop up and say "Y'know, you're kind of being ridiculous" or treat these kinds of behaviors with anything except absolute passivity or some other form of enabling these people to rush to the forefront of their movement with gratuitous false labeling just for liking something they don't, because ideology is a team sport. At least the question of "Why do people hate us so much?" persists to some degree within that movement, I guess, so at least there's some comedic value to be had. Though most seem happy to dismiss anybody disliking this type of shit or disagreeing with them as some form of sexism or innate prejudice rather than any fault of their own. These people are even against me on twitter. I think a lot of people who like ecchi, loli, hentai and such have zero clue just how much these people will attack women for liking BL. They call you a homophobe now for squeeling about cute boys in anime. Not even kidding. This purity culture movement is being hated by many anti-censorship left minded people. Even people like me who called themselves a feminist for a long time, who helped people in real life, who fought for real world rights of others. I feel like the radicalization of both sides has left us with a very poor fandom community where we can feel safe to criticize work without sounding like we are criticizing the people who watch it or the creators for the contents of the work. Because now everyone got some fandom PTSD going on. I am now labeled a pedo for watching Ranma 1/2 on that side. Like that is just how far they have gone. They aren't even after you for just loli anymore. They are after you for ANY CHARACTER under 18 or "LOOKS" under 18 <- which as someone who looked under 18 for most of her 20's I find pretty offensive as well. Heck, if I want to, I can still look under 18 to the majority of people at 28 almost 29. I actually didn't believe the SJW problem for a long while because I was in these fansites and pretty sheltered away from the nonsense going on on social media. There are plenty of things we could criticize actual Japan for. Workers rights being towards the top of the list. The fact that there are movements in Japan bent on censoring art, tho not the art we are thinking of, mostly wanting to censor stuff from Korea. And yeah, I did see some feminists who aren't so focused on the media criticism side of things bring up real issues (the right not to give chocolate, the right to wear glasses if they need them, sexist hiring practices at Jump, the fact Jump isn't labeled for the content contained in it so it is seen as an all ages manga publication, the right to birth control, the right to not be force sterilized by the government because that is illegal but Japan is doing that to disabled women)... but holy fuck are the reasonable people who are actually fighting for real rights in Japan just being drowned out by actual idiots who are pushing a purity culture no fictophile/toonophile can possibly abide by. It is absolutely trying to destroy everything that makes us Otaku who we are. I never imagined how bad it was until I joined twitter a few months ago. It is actually legitimately peaceful on sites where Otaku are.... Even more so on sites that allow proper hentai discussion complete with pictures. |
Energetic-NovaNov 13, 2019 12:29 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| This will only happen if Japanese studios take the money. Don't take the money from China, it's not worth it, get the money from a Taiwanese studio for example instead of mainland China |
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HeruruMeruru said: well-intentioned Bwahahahahaha No, I don't buy that for a second, often times they're completely petty and operate mostly in toxic ad hom. You can't slap a positive label on a pile of shit and then justify it in any way whatsoever just because it brands itself with that label, it's entirely unconvincing. It comes off as little more than an attempt to water down the problem coming from that end here and the rampant moral authoritarianism that's comparable to the religious right of old that these people are often advocating. Like, yes, it's completely retarded to say that they're more of a threat than China, but they're not suddenly absolved from criticism nor should China be used as a distracting point to point away from what these people want to do and what they often advocate. Things don't suddenly disappear or vanish like that, and the passive or even active enabling it seems to be met internally with makes it feel even more pressing to combat some of the shit. |
ManabanNov 13, 2019 2:31 PM
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| @Energetic-Nova I mean I don't have a problem with people disliking those things. I am open to even critiquing culture in anime/manga. Healthy discussion is always good. I like talking to people who do disagree with me partially because I want to be see why they would in the first place without misportraying them in my mind. The problem is anytime you get down to talk to those swaths of people they always resort to ad homs and they don't even dismiss your point they just don't even acknowledge it and go back to attacking you. It's like I am talking to a brick wall. Anytime I point out how art styles preconceived age really depends on the artist, reasons for why shonen manga say have fanservice and why I think it's harmless etc they just go after my character or make assumptions about me. I am open to discussions and critiques of sexuality in anime/manga. I don't like most fanservice (it could be massively improved) for instance but i don't see personally attacking fans and creators as critiques. @HeruruMeruru Well the problem is that most of the crowd on twitter loves censorship. They would totally ban stuff if they had that power. I saw tons of the ultra woke crowd cheering on China's censorship of Kimetsu no Yaiba. Though yes anyone who actually thinks they have the same power as China or we should fear them as much is insane. China would ban many of their own favourites it's not just BL stuff (that some here don't care about/if they had standards it wouldn't matter if it was just BL stuff) they hate. People un-ironically linking to OG who literally fits the overblown stereotype the ultra woke have of gamers or anime fans is hilarious. No one should take him seriously. The guy is unhinged. |
BilboBaggins365Nov 13, 2019 3:40 PM
Esquirtit said: Netflix is worse with their demon and furry porn propaganda, SJW Twitter has no mercy and PC culture will make my waifus boobs smaller If PC culture was only concerned with making boobs smaller I'd be all for it hah! Sadly though, I don't think what I have in mind is quite their intent with the boob size thing. In fact it's kind of the opposite. Just big boobs is objectfication but make those boobs small without changing anything else about the character and now it's child objectifcation. The people that complain about boobs, ironically, complain more about small boobs, when sexualized. Of course these toxic negative perceptions are poison and come from stupid people that don't understand how art / fiction / fantasy work... China is still worse though. To get on topic [EDIT: Reading through the rest of the comments it seems the PC culture of the west more or less became the topic. Color me shocked]: As much as I can't stand the moral-supremacist Western puritans, I think Chinese censorship poses a much larger risk to freedom of expression within the medium. The "western problem" (doing my best to avoid the dreaded acronym because people turn their brains off when they hear it these days) is more of a risk to Japanese society, sure, but anime? China is legit hardcore censorship. Funny how the countries/cultures that cause problems for others in the world are always the big powerful ones, eh? Yet there are still people that think the EU is a wonderful thing. Concentration of power always leads to authoritarian control-freak mentalities, on a social and political level. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
lordsamhain said: One Angry Gamer just back things up. LOL. Sakura Anime News predicted it. https://sakuraanimenews.com/2018/04/19/animegate-19-04-18/ The problem literally with the assertion from that article alone is that the Western fanbase will automatically support censorship and that isn't the case. That whole article is fear mongering. All he is saying the international market matters to some degree compared to the past when they made stuff only intended for the Japanese market. You know why anime like Shield Hero (since the anti SJW groups rallied around it) got a lot more seasons. It partially was because it was a big hit in China and the West more so than they expected. So it got more seasons. Azur Lane with all its traditional waifu aspects is a Chinese mobile game. Netflix has bought plenty of shows that would be very un PC. These guys don't care they will just go where the money is. A lot of these culture warrior guys have no integrity and are just stoking the flames to gain popularity on the internet. OG is one of them. Even in the cases of Western tampering it always was met with heavy backlash from the dedicated Western fanbase. Until I see actual evidence of creators being suppressed then I will agree (anime today still makes anything it wants regardless of backlash). The West doesn't have really influence nor really China either on anime/manga at the moment. In terms of market growth the industry is going to be more concerned with China due to the huge target market. Plus consider that Japanese games which are vastly bigger internationally than anime itself still are able to keep otaku culture very well alive. You can look at the success of the Nier: Automata or Persona 5. Just because anime gets bigger and bigger doesn't mean total suppression more than likely it will just end up like the Japanese games market. You still will have your niche shows for the dedicated Japanese audience and more mainstream stuff some of which will target mass appeal and others that will be big even with the otaku elements. Just because I oppose censorship doesn't mean I am going to buy these guys doomsday predictions when they offer no solutions on top of OG being a hypocrite amongst all other things (racist and sexist). He legits supports censorship of things he doesn't like. He doesn't support artistic rights. So all he cares is that his needs and wants are taken care of. Also there is no such thing as an aesthetic for anime/manga. All anime/manga is comics/animation produced in Japan it can look like anything. You got anime like Panty and Stocking or FLCL that have drawn directly from Western animation. Styles change depend on the demographic or time period. Forget this whole style itself is partially drawn from old western cartoons and styles. |
BilboBaggins365Nov 13, 2019 4:54 PM
lordsamhain said: TolkienFan365 said: The problem literally with the assertion from that article alone is that the Western fanbase will automatically support censorship and that isn't the case. That whole article is fear mongering. All he is saying the international market matters to some degree compared to the past when they made stuff only intended for the Japanese market. You know why anime like Shield Hero (since the anti SJW groups rallied around it) got a lot more seasons. It partially was because it was a big hit on in China and the West more so than they expected. So it got more seasons. Azur Lane with all it's traditional waifu aspects is a Chinese mobile game. Netflix has bought plenty of shows that would be very un PC. These guys don't care they will just go where the money is. Fact is you are buying into guy who is just playing this for clicks. Even in the cases of Western tampering it always was met with heavy backlash from the dedicated Western fanbase. Until I see actual evidence of creators being suppressed then I will agree (anime today still makes anything it wants regardless of backlash). The West doesn't have really influence nor really China either on anime/manga of the moment. In terms of market growth the industry is going to be more concerned with China due to the huge target market. Also there is no such thing as an aesthetic for anime/manga. All anime/manga is comics/animation produced in Japan it can look like anything. You got anime like Panty and Stocking or FLCL that have drawn directly from Western animation forget this whole style itself is partially drawn from old western cartoons and styles. Not fear mongering. The article pretty much the truth of the reality of the situation. Your response is pretty naive. This what happened with the infamous 4Kids One Piece Dub. 4Kids One Piece really changed the aesthetics of the Anime. Fans were really upset. Anime/Manga do have aesthetics. It is like comparing Aphrodite Sculpture made of Soda Cans to a Ancient Greek Sculpture of Aphrodite. Saying they are the same, and their is aesthetics. Cannon Busters changed the aesthetic of Anime. It is a western cartoon/animation. If you westernize Japanese ideas. It ceases from being a Anime. No they don't what does Ping Pong the Animation, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Yuru Camp or Paradise Kiss have in common aesthetically? There is no uniform style again it depends on era, genre, target audience. You keep going to the One Piece dub I did make edits to my above comment talking about how Japanese gaming is much bigger than anime but still has been able to get away with a lot of content and actually make them into hits. Sure there are issues with Sony which have been fixed by just going to Nintendo and the PC market will always have no restrictions. There is no actual indication that anything has changed various shows still get made. International audiences have actually even supported "problematic shows" and encouraged more seasons of it. There is no evidence outside of struggles on censorship which guess what Japan has been doing that forever as well. Bebop got in trouble when it was airing as did IBO. People in Japan aren't some moral pariahs of libertarian artistic freedom. Fact is there have been firm responses from various institutions within Japan to protect artistic freedom. If artists decide they want to make certain content to be more mainstream that is their choice. I just want to protect against actual censorship and you know what Netflix getting in on anime might actually cut down on censorship as anime won't have to conform to TV standards. Anime today is pretty censored. Same thing for HBO especially since CR might get pushed into their other service. The rules for anime production might open up what is allowed today. Also Westernize Japanese ideas? What is a Japanese idea? Is Vinland Saga Western? It pulls from European History, European culture, folk lore etc. Attack on Titan makes use of Norse myths, European history and Isayama's idea came from various paintings of the Titans (from greek myth) though obviously Kaiju monsters have some influence and you have Mikasa there. Still mostly European. FMA is in the same boat. Lolita culture hey honestly tons of popular anime and otaku sub cultures. You can go back to JoJo Part 1 with Victorian Gothic influnece etc. Fact is Japan itself can't avoid Western influence either because of how much they were changed due to modernization. World wide no one can avoid it because of the influence Western powers had over the world in the 19th and 20th century. Even the whole school uniform thing is Western despite it's association with some aspects of the otaku sub culture. Anime cannot ignore how much it pulls from Western culture because it does. Plus I rarely actually hear calls for protection for actual Japanese culture it's just mostly fanservice stuff. People didn't get as outraged over Yaiba's cenorship as some who rallied behind Fire Force or any other fanservice controversy. |
BilboBaggins365Nov 13, 2019 5:12 PM
| @YossaRedMage Literally anything can me made to look 'harmful' or 'offensive' if you try hard enough. It's impossible to understand what exactly they're trying to accomplish by whining about fiction, like do they really believe it's a 'good' thing or is it all for clout? I'm kinda just as cynical as you, it's all about power in the end. YossaRedMage said: The "western problem" (doing my best to avoid the dreaded acronym because people turn their brains off when they hear it these days) Due to constant drivel such as this https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1810697&show=50#msg58654954 Childish generalization on something as broad as 'western entertainment', because some established characters from Marvel DC superhero shit or whatever got changed. @TolkienFan365 Took a quick glance and again, they even start their article by mentioning the anime adaptation of Sidonia no Kishi, a Japanese manga where the MC basically gets a harem. Have yet to see actual problems with Netflix. They're just as healthy for the anime industry as any other business currenty. He's a pointless troll anyway all those sites are garbage fearmongers indeed |
| poop |
| TolkienFan guy seems like a reasonable one the more I see him in these threads. My name might be worth shit, but I shall offer him my seal of approval. Truly, a tremendous honor has been bestowed here. |
|
| ALL governement ordained censorship is to be feared. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| lol i see an #AnimeGate stuff on this thread, like ye anime should not go mainstream because it will be censored by SJWs and governments around the world derp but for now i still want anime to go mainstream and maybe indie anime might become a thing too China even offers better salaries to attract japanese animators and directors for example lol Japan in Danger of Losing Skilled Animators to China? https://www.otakuusamagazine.com/japan-danger-losing-skilled-animators-china/ QPR said: China will just censor for China so it has not effect on anyone but the Chinese. The rest of the world is not going to remove Winnie The Pooh from anime. the problem people see here is that more anime will be made for China because the big profit for the anime industry is there, this is also whats happening on the video game industry i heard |
degNov 13, 2019 5:41 PM
lordsamhain said: TolkienFan365 said: No they don't what does Ping Pong the Animation, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Yuru Camp or Paradise Kiss have in common aesthetically? There is no uniform style again it depends on era, genre, target audience. You keep going to the One Piece dub I did make edits to my above comment talking about how Japanese gaming is much bigger than anime but still has been able to get away with a lot of content and actually make them into hits. Sure there are issues with Sony which have been fixed by just going to Nintendo and the PC market will always have no restrictions. There is no actual indication that anything has changed various shows still get made. International audiences have actually even supported "problematic shows" and encouraged more seasons of it. There is no evidence outside of struggles on censorship which guess what Japan has been doing that forever as well. Bebop got in trouble when it was airing as did IBO. People in Japan aren't some moral pariahs of libertarian artistic freedom. Fact is there have been firm responses from various institutions within Japan to protect artistic freedom. If artists decide they want to make certain content to be more mainstream that is their choice. I just want to protect against actual censorship and you know what Netflix getting in on anime might actually cut down on censorship as anime won't have to conform to TV standards. Anime today is pretty censored. Same thing for HBO especially since CR might get pushed into their other service. The rules for anime production might open up what is allowed today. Also Westernize Japanese ideas? What is a Japanese idea? Is Vinland Saga Western? It pulls from European History, European culture, folk lore etc. Attack on Titan makes use of Norse myths, European history and Isayama's idea came from various paintings of the Titans (from greek myth) though obviously Kaiju monsters have some influence and you have Mikasa there. Still mostly European. FMA is in the same boat. Lolita culture hey honestly tons of popular anime and otaku sub cultures. You can go back to JoJo Part 1 with Victorian Gothic influnece etc. Fact is Japan itself can't avoid Western influence either because of how much they were changed due to modernization. World wide no one can avoid it because of the influence Western powers had over the world in the 19th and 20th century. Even the whole school uniform thing is Western despite it's association with some aspects of the otaku sub culture. Anime cannot ignore how much it pulls from Western culture because it does. Plus I rarely actually hear calls for protection for actual Japanese culture it's just mostly fanservice stuff. People didn't get as outraged over Yaiba's cenorship as some who rallied behind Fire Force or any other fanservice controversy. Your arguments aren’t making any sense. Those Anime/Manga that have Japanese ideas/perspective. Japan Japanizes those ideas. Even freaking Underbelly summons up Anime. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8KRCyg6scRM I am not watching a video from some random youtuber how about you express to me in your own words what Japanese ideas are. I am talking to you. Also before claiming I don't make sense point out where I don't make sense first. You haven't pointed out in logical inconsistencies in my statement. |
BilboBaggins365Nov 13, 2019 5:57 PM
| Thread locked for breaking rule #5 of AD. Anime Discussion Rules 5: Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc. |
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