Forum Settings
Forums

"Gundam Creator Criticizes Makoto Shinkai Works For Lack of Sexual Intimacy"

Pages (2) [1] 2 »
Post New Reply
#1
Nov 1, 10:10 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 154
"When asked what [Yoshiyuki Tomino] thought of Kyoto Animation and Shinkai anime, he said, "I see them as my rivals. From my generation's perspective, you don't have to go out of your way to make an anime that feels like an introspective novel ('I novel')." He then went on to describe Shinkai's works as "stories about a boy and a girl who are always stretching out their hands towards each other," and said, "And yet the boy's hand never reaches the girl's crotch."

Now Tomino is probably fucking around when he said it, but let's suppose he's serious. Is his critiques about KyoAni and Shinkai substantial? Is Japan's purity laws hurting anime? Is Tomino's still salty that nobody liked Gundam Reconguista in G? Watcha think.

Source: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-10-31/gundam-creator-yoshiyuki-tomino-criticizes-makoto-shinkai-works-for-lack-of-sexual-intimacy/.152531
 
#2
Nov 1, 10:18 PM

Online
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6509
Good God, I really hope he's just trolling.

Is Japan's purity laws hurting anime?


No. Their purity laws about idols are hurting the idols...but anime should remain chaste.



 
#3
Nov 1, 10:22 PM
Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 57
The Chad Tomino and the virgin Kyotoani and Shinkai
 
#4
Nov 1, 10:23 PM
Online
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 48619
related discussion https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1808995

and i agree with some users there on that related thread when they say at least LET THEM KISS if they cannot LET THEM FUCK
 
#5
Nov 1, 10:26 PM

Online
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1410
Sounds legit to me. In fact I suggest we start inserting sexual intimacy into every single anime from now on effective immediately, regardless of genre or the intended demographic.
 
#6
Nov 1, 10:59 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 4498
Setsuei said:
Sounds legit to me. In fact I suggest we start inserting sexual intimacy into every single anime from now on effective immediately, regardless of genre or the intended demographic.

There should be no age restrictions on viewing sexual content.
(Mostly) MBTI blog coming before New Year!






Filter my anime list by fetish:
Ass - Boxing - Bunny - Catfight - S&M - Wrestling
 
#7
Nov 1, 11:06 PM

Online
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1410
IpreferEcchi said:
Setsuei said:
Sounds legit to me. In fact I suggest we start inserting sexual intimacy into every single anime from now on effective immediately, regardless of genre or the intended demographic.

There should be no age restrictions on viewing sexual content.

Right? I've never understood why so many people view sexual content as worse than violence.
 
#8
Nov 1, 11:22 PM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 7777
What do you expect from Shinkai Makoto when he publicly admits how Kyoto Animation is capable of creating anime that can never be replicated?

Both are really disgrace in the industry. We need more initimacy in anime.
<<<< Click to see how you may #HelpKyoAniHeal

 
#9
Nov 1, 11:31 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 460
I honestly thought Tomino was high again when I read the article. Memes aside, I dunno anything about his newest projects and maybe it's just me since I recently finished Araburu but I somewhat agree with him that anime can express more mature themes though his slights towards Shinkai and Kyoani are strange. Not unwarranted, just strange.
Stay Strong, KyoAni.
 
Nov 1, 11:55 PM

Online
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 564
Every story-teller will have their own way to tell their stories. Some will choose to be explicit, others will choose metaphors, wile still others might only hint. No way is superior than the other as long as they can create an immersive atmosphere and evoke emotions.
 
Nov 2, 12:00 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 74
im dying of laughter holy shit he has a point

 
Nov 2, 12:15 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11948
Tomino is cut from a completely different cloth and generation of creators. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't care for Shinkai and KyoAni's modern methods and outlook. That said, their works are largely family friendly and simple, so I'm not sure what he's expecting.

Whenever Tomino criticizes others within the medium, all I can think of is the fact that he created, directed, wrote, and storyboarded Garzey's Wing.
 
Nov 2, 12:28 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 467
Well, KyoAni and Shinkai do have a lot of flaws in their shows and there are many people who dislike them (rightfully btw). But blaming them for the lack of sexuality is a nonsense. Probably gramps forgot to take his pills
 
Nov 2, 12:30 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 223
Mr. Tomino is based. Also probably slightly salty because voices of a distant star includes a macross reference.
I really enjoy those "helicopter ride" memes
 
Nov 2, 12:31 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4425
Is his critiques about KyoAni and Shinkai substantial?

Yes, kinda and I think it connects with Miyazaki's point from which was born the meme "anime was a mistake".

"If you don't spend time watching real people, you can't do this, because you've never seen it. Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It's produced by humans who can't stand looking at other humans. And that's why the industry is full of otaku!"


Shinkai's and KyoAni's anime are so up their head they lack realism in their characters and are just some idealistic portrayal of their fantasy. And in this fantasy as Tomino said there's no sexual attraction despite its importance in normal human lives.

If you pay attention in "Your Name" you'd notice that the initial characterization of the main couple is thrown away when the body swaps happen and they become the embodiment of their gender stereotypes. The characters personality changes as required by the movie to have those comedy bits.
Planetes said:
Living alone and dying alone... alone... How could anyone be satisfied with that? It's stupid... Space is too big to face all alone.
 
Nov 2, 12:54 AM
Offline
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 258
lol
lack of sexual intimacy probably one the reasons for Shinkai's works' worldwide success.
 
Nov 2, 1:29 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 677
This is the best description of any shinkai work ever. lmao

 
Nov 2, 4:48 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2289
To be fair the romance in Yoshiyuki Tomino's shows it totally weird, absurd and on some occasions creepy, even sexist...but the guy at least can direct spectacular action scenes and mecha porn (and I like his humour and self irony).
The best Shinkai can do is to make the interruptions (aka plot) of his scenery porn not that annoying.


Atetotion said:
Is Tomino's still salty that nobody liked Gundam Reconguista in G?

Apparently some people (including me) liked Reco G. There are even new recap movies.



NakolHira said:
the reasons for Shinkai's works' worldwide success.

You mean that one overpowered by hype movie?


PS
Wow, Tomino said that in an interview for the Weekly Playboy magazine...that explains a lot.
Modified by alshu, Nov 2, 4:58 AM
 
Nov 2, 7:52 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 636
Tomino-san is pretty much right here. They at least need to kiss each other like they did in 5cm.
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
Nov 2, 8:38 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 208
I think Tomino is just a fucking pervert
 
Nov 2, 9:00 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5966
it's sad that anime always represent sex as something dirty (ex : domestic na bitches / Scum's Wish ...)
yeah sex can be disgusting and dirty but it also can be pure and heartwarming
the lack of intimacy make romance anime so dull , i watch romance to see kisses and huges and not some bullshit love triangles/misunderstandings ...

a lot of Vns have pure love stories with some cute sex scenes , so i'm satisfied
Modified by tragedydesu, Nov 2, 9:04 AM
 
Nov 2, 9:04 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2980
Chiibi said:
Good God, I really hope he's just trolling.


All he meant was that Shinkai's works lean a little too much to the platonic side. But Tomino doesn't mince words.
Never has, never will.
1 hour = 10,000 yen.
2 hours = 20,000 yen.
3 hours = 3 loaves of French bread.
4 hours = 4 loaves of French bread.
 
Nov 2, 9:08 AM

Online
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6509
PunkRocker2001 said:
I think Tomino is just a fucking pervert


Agreed.

At the very least, he could express himself with more tact instead of talking like a horny teenager.



 
Nov 2, 9:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 193
He has a point, but the way he worded it is highly susceptible to spinning/misinterpretation, as it already seems to be happening in this thread. I just think he's pissed off about the populational decline in Japan and how pop culture over there seems to be somewhat contributing to that phenomenon.

tragedydesu said:
a lot of Vns have pure love stories with some cute sex scenes , so i'm satisfied

One of the H-scenes in Koi to senkyo to Chocolate actually made me tear up
あなたは誰?
 
Nov 2, 9:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 7133
Atetotion said:
"When asked what [Yoshiyuki Tomino] thought of Kyoto Animation and Shinkai anime, he said, "I see them as my rivals. From my generation's perspective, you don't have to go out of your way to make an anime that feels like an introspective novel ('I novel')." He then went on to describe Shinkai's works as "stories about a boy and a girl who are always stretching out their hands towards each other," and said, "And yet the boy's hand never reaches the girl's crotch."

Now Tomino is probably fucking around when he said it, but let's suppose he's serious. Is his critiques about KyoAni and Shinkai substantial? Is Japan's purity laws hurting anime? Is Tomino's still salty that nobody liked Gundam Reconguista in G? Watcha think.

Source: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-10-31/gundam-creator-yoshiyuki-tomino-criticizes-makoto-shinkai-works-for-lack-of-sexual-intimacy/.152531


only people with trash taste didnt like G reco



on a more serious note though, I think he's totally right about this, and it doesn't only apply to Shinkai himself
there's plenty of this 'romance' stuff that has AT BEST characters going for one single kiss, often limiting it to even less than that
hardly feels like romance and not some weird platonic ideal love (which is boring as fuck tbh) and very unrealistic

not like tomino is the best person to criticize romance of other authors but whatever, truth is truth
 
Nov 2, 9:28 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1272
Atetotion said:
"When asked what [Yoshiyuki Tomino] thought of Kyoto Animation and Shinkai anime, he said, "I see them as my rivals. From my generation's perspective, you don't have to go out of your way to make an anime that feels like an introspective novel ('I novel')." He then went on to describe Shinkai's works as "stories about a boy and a girl who are always stretching out their hands towards each other," and said, "And yet the boy's hand never reaches the girl's crotch."

Now Tomino is probably fucking around when he said it, but let's suppose he's serious. Is his critiques about KyoAni and Shinkai substantial? Is Japan's purity laws hurting anime? Is Tomino's still salty that nobody liked Gundam Reconguista in G? Watcha think.

Source: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-10-31/gundam-creator-yoshiyuki-tomino-criticizes-makoto-shinkai-works-for-lack-of-sexual-intimacy/.152531
jesus he sounds like the kind of person that would probably say the girl's a slut for doing the same thing to the guy lol
"I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says.
I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby".
"She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other."
 
Nov 2, 5:34 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2289
Aure0lin said:
he sounds like the kind of person that would probably say the girl's a slut for doing the same thing to the guy lol

And considering the fact that this is from an interview for Playboy...also he likes them that way?
Modified by alshu, Nov 2, 5:46 PM
 
Nov 2, 5:36 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1007
I responded to this already on CE, so I'll just copy and paste it:

Is he completely wrong though? Yeah, a bit overboard with wanting explicit sex (if I understood correctly) on shows/movies trying to be as 'family-friendly' as possible, but even kisses are avoided like the plague. How does one tell a story about a romantic development without the physical aspect? 'Romance' isn't merely a platonic thing one feels for another, it's normal for there to be physical attraction as well and physical attraction leads to physical interaction. It feels like leaving all romantic interest purely platonic, what makes it incomplete. Even worse, even when there is physical tension between characters (looking at you Kyoani), it's merely and completely normal friendship behavior, while romance itself sticks to characters blushing at handholding.
 
Nov 2, 6:19 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1634
tragedydesu said:
it's sad that anime always represent sex as something dirty (ex : domestic na bitches / Scum's Wish ...)
yeah sex can be disgusting and dirty but it also can be pure and heartwarming
the lack of intimacy make romance anime so dull , i watch romance to see kisses and huges and not some bullshit love triangles/misunderstandings ...

a lot of Vns have pure love stories with some cute sex scenes , so i'm satisfied


I think you'd like Kiss X Sis a lot. Its very light-hearted with a lot of sex in it.

I agree with Tomino, I see this in some animes where a guy "dates" a girl for months on end without kissing. Meanwhile, my thought is what guy would date a girl for months on end without so much as asking why the fuck aren't we even hugging? Even in middle school I would not have put up with the relationships we see in a few animes where it takes the characters' months to start holding hands.

Now I will say, I believe this phenomenon is exaggerated. Most romance animes I've seen do have kissing and relationship development. I don't think these sort of hyper-innocent relationships with no apparent physical attraction are the typical portrayal in anime. I've seen hyper-innocent relationships as well as hyper-lustful ones with the majority falling somewhere in the middle.

I am in agreement, however, that its difficult to suspend your disbelief in animes where the characters don't find it odd at all that they've been dating for many months and aren't even comfortable hugging each other yet.
 
Nov 2, 6:26 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 305
In Shinkai's movies you are supposed to jerk off at the scenery, not at any reasonable expectations of a realistic romance.

Kosmonaut said:
Even worse, even when there is physical tension between characters (looking at you Kyoani), it's merely and completely normal friendship behavior, while romance itself sticks to characters blushing at handholding.[/i]
The sheer amount of salt.
"The one with the biggest brains have the smallest penile lengths." - Jordan B. Peterson
 
Nov 3, 2:06 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5966
@Ryuk9428
Kiss X Sis is just a garbage harem (that's just my opinion , if you like it then good for you)

read Taishou Otome Otogibanashi if you want to know what kind of romance i was talking about
Modified by tragedydesu, Nov 3, 2:13 AM
 
Nov 3, 2:18 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 395
Tomino gets that those works have no substance whatsoever except looking pretty so might as well add some wank material
 
Nov 3, 2:19 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2009
Tomino is a funny guy. He made others laugh because of the Reconguita Gundam:
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-10-22/toshio-okada-rips-apart-gundam-reconguista/.80151

Now I don't know about the other guys and Kyoto Animation. I have barely watched any stuff from KyoAni and only 1 older anime that is listed for Shinkai here in MAL. (Most stuff seems not interesting.)

The better Gundam were Seed and 00 and Sunrise had a lot of other non-gundam mecha that were nice.
 
Nov 3, 2:34 AM

Online
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 508
knowing Tomino, he is definitely not trolling.
 
Nov 3, 2:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 364
Sexual intimacy in anime/or any other medium is often unnecessary , dont get me wrong , what I mean to say is that for me anime without sexual intimacy has nothing to lose, I wouldn't give it a lower score just coz it doesnt have those scenes. However I dont mind them.
For me,
If an anime/manga has intimate scenes, good.
If an anime/manga doesnt have intimate scenes, still good.
 
Nov 3, 2:53 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 267
I think that he is worrying about Japan's depopulation problem, and he's probably fed up when he sees that many popular romantic anime with no "that kind" of conclusion.
 
Nov 3, 2:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 687
It is also a criticism of introspection, "From my generation's perspective, you don't have to go out of your way to make an anime that feels like an introspective novel ('I novel')"
This is one of my main criticism of modern anime, why do modern anime have to be so focused on the delusions of the protagonist, why can't they act like people?
 
Nov 3, 3:09 AM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 11
tragedydesu said:
it's sad that anime always represent sex as something dirty (ex : domestic na bitches / Scum's Wish ...)
yeah sex can be disgusting and dirty but it also can be pure and heartwarming
the lack of intimacy make romance anime so dull , i watch romance to see kisses and huges and not some bullshit love triangles/misunderstandings ...

a lot of Vns have pure love stories with some cute sex scenes , so i'm satisfied


It sounds to me that you only care about fanservice and not the actual romance or the plot. You should stick to hentai romance clearly isn't the genre for you.
 
Nov 3, 3:21 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 29
I think he's very much right about how love in most anime is depicted as being an almost Platonic idealized form. Characters can explicitly be in a relationship with each other and still not even kiss let alone take it all the way. That's not to say they have to depict anything explicitly. The implication of a "fade to black" is enough when it comes to relationship development and would strongly benefit shows that try to bring across more adult themes.

Another comment mentioned that it seems to be one extreme or the either. Either you get something like Scum's Wish, where sex is an act done shamefully, or 100% pure romance where sex is entirely avoided out of shame. Either way, the implication is that it's shameful, which doesn't seem to me to be a healthy way of treating the topic.
 
Nov 3, 4:05 AM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 10
tomino is right as always. kyoto and shinkai make horribly boring crap-shows and just a few have the guts to point that out.
 
Nov 3, 4:09 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5966
@xiwanep848
lol , my fav romance manga both of them don't have any kind of fanservice
intimacy != fanservice

love triangles and misunderstandings are not romance , they are just drama
also there is no romance in hentai , its just lust
 
Nov 3, 4:29 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 31489
I mean I'm always in favor of criticizing Shinkai and "stories about a boy and a girl who are always stretching out their hands towards each other" is literally what every shinkai movie ever is. He has one story that he tells. I don't really agree or care about the lack of sexual intimacy being an issue, or at least not the main issue, but otherwise Tomino nailed it. Unlike G Reco, unfortunately.

Idk what KyoAni has to do with it tho. KyoAni actually makes more varied and frequently much better anime than Shinkai ever will. Throwing the two together in one put seems questionable.

Aesthetic value can be recognized or experienced, but it cannot be conveyed to those who are incapable of grasping its sensations and perceptions. To quarrel on its behalf is always a blunder.
 
Nov 3, 5:22 AM
Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2332
I don't see what Kyoto have to do with this from the looks of it he isn't accusing them
 
Nov 3, 6:04 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2805
At least now I know not to watch anything made by Tomino since I dislike seeing sexual intimacy.
 
Nov 3, 7:27 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1306
Btw Tomino was also involved in Wandering Sun as a storyboard artist and that series trumps all Kyotoani and Shinkai in romance. He was wasted on Mecha and Gundam unfortunately
 
Nov 3, 8:28 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4558
He looking at Shinkai and his characters, going "no balls" lol
MALoween candies:

Bonus candies:
 
Nov 3, 9:09 AM

Online
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1235
Big ass bruh moment here. Feels like a ruboff from the infamous Darling in the FranXX, tbh.

 
Nov 3, 9:14 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 345
Damn did I laugh to that comment. But honestly, one of the things that keeps me out of drama and all those is the fact that characters act like fucking androids most of the time.

I don´t know if it´s only Japan or maybe they like to keep things "pure" (while being complete hypocrites then because hentai exists) but holy shit is so fucking neuron-breaker seen two characters being complete morons when trying to express their feelings. I dont necessarily say all characters should fuck or something (most of them are underage anyways) but definitively being less moronic about social or intimate relationships.
 
Nov 3, 11:15 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 134
It's funny how differnet the debate is between here ANN. Here most people think it's about showing more sex in anime. At ANN, people tend to understand it has "the relationship between character are pure and the story stop when the realtionship actually begin". You never have a more advanced relationship. Like you can have in things like Nana, or even Horimiya or Ancient Magus Bribe (I only read the manga, don't know up to where the anime goes). The relationship between the main couple feels more . I tend to be with the second group. That's a thing a lot of people have complained about for the past 10 years on romance anime in general.
Modified by Turtles_Hunter, Nov 3, 11:24 AM
 
Nov 8, 10:17 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5160
Pyro said:
Tomino is cut from a completely different cloth and generation of creators. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't care for Shinkai and KyoAni's modern methods and outlook. That said, their works are largely family friendly and simple, so I'm not sure what he's expecting.

Whenever Tomino criticizes others within the medium, all I can think of is the fact that he created, directed, wrote, and storyboarded Garzey's Wing.
You say that like it's a bad thing. ;)
Don't bother if you don't know how special effects were done without computers.

 
Top
Pages (2) [1] 2 »