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Do you forgive plotholes in your favourite anime ?

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Oct 31, 2019 1:27 AM

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Anime that have plotholes aren't my favorite. Stupid question.
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Oct 31, 2019 1:43 AM

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To be honest, I couldn't name you any, aside from 1 in Accel World or 1 in Angel Beats. Plot holes aren't something I need to forgive because plot holes are really inconsequential to my enjoyment of anime. However, if there is that rare 1 that is similar to Accel World in its blatant disregard of the rules, then I'll mention it as something that annoyed me(which if it were a favorite would be made up for in other ways that matter more to me). My suspension of disbelief is strong, so usually, I'm not questioning things as they happen. Even when it's pointed out to me, my reaction is always "cool, I didn't notice that" or "I disagree". That said at the end of the day the scene that the writer most likely sacrificed the logic for was powerful emotionally which is probably why it happened. So viewing the show through an entertainment lens would make a lot of plot holes non-issues. Let's take a plot hole mention for the end of DR 1 and 2 that I found on tv-tropes:



For those who couldn't read that, basically at the end of DR 2, the cast did something very shocking and disturbing in the past that contradicts what could've reasonably happened given what happened at the end of the first game. However, I deemed it as a non-issue due to what said action symbolized in both its contrast with what we see of the cast in the 2nd game currently and the point it made about their past selves.

Anyway, by viewing and evaluating stuff on a more emotional level where pay off matters more than perfect consistency, plot holes don't become that big of a deal even when they are pointed out to me.

lavah said:
It's really hard for me to notice plotholes unless it's sword art online, then I'll have to give that anime a 3
I think SAO's biggest problem in that is just how little emotional impact the scene with the plot hole had. It sacrificed too much for such minuscule/ineffective results.
Modified by Peaceful_Critic, Oct 31, 2019 2:27 AM

 
Oct 31, 2019 8:39 AM

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No, I cannot forgive them.

Also if anybody finds any Plotholes in Konosuba, Ghost in the Shell, or Mirai Nikki, please let me know. I would be happy to listen unlike the rest of the Braindead Normie Masses that get mad when you provide real logic that something doesn't makes sense.
 
Oct 31, 2019 8:59 AM

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Bebop_Hakusho said:
Pullman said:
Most plot holes aren't real plot holes. People who want to shit on an anime can just interpret everything in their own way, making up 'plot holes' along the way. They are very subjective most of the time.

But even if they aren't there is still the matter of context, of relevance, of whether a specific issue really matters for what the show at large is trying to do and therefore whether it is reasonable to care about it or if only people who actively want to shit on something pretend it is important enough to drag down the show as a whole. The plot hole itself is only marginally important, but if you want me to accept your criticism you need to convince me of why it is important, why I should care about it in this particular context. People usually fail at this.

But even if the plot hole is not purely subjective AND I see it's relevance, it will likely not ruin the show for me if I otherwise love it. The 'plot' in 'plot hole' indicates that it is an issue related to the plot, and that is usually among the least important factors for me in most shows (which also plays into why I often don't see plot holes as very relevant criticism when to me the show is all about the characters, dialogue, atmosphere etc....).

Hence even if the plot were riddled with holes, unless it's one of the rare shows where the plot is the only or main reason why I'm invested in the show, it won't do a whole lot of damage to my enjoyment. It might solicit a sigh from me here and there, in honor of the lost potential of how it could have been done right, but I very rarely dwell on plot holes unless I'm already not very invested in a show. As I said earlier, obsessing about alleged plot holes is usually an activity for when a show doesn't capture your full attention and you start looking for reasons why you don't like the show.


Overall, as you may notice, I don't think very highly of 'plot holes' as a criticism. They're almost always more subjective and based on interpretation than the people complaining about them are willing to admit and because of that they feel more like a rhetorical tool that haters or self-obsessed criticis use to shit on something in a pseudo-objective way.

To most people the term 'plot hole' sounds more objective than other kinds of criticisms and critics and haters like to borrow that false sense of objectivity to camouflage their opinions with it. But I always find it very transparent when the term is just used to objectify completely subjective, negative-focused interpretations. Unfortunately that is the case for the majority of cases where the term is used, at least in my experience on MAL.


I completely agree with this, especially on how most so called plotholes have very simple explainations. If you didn't like the show enough to pay close attention to the logic behind certain plot points that's fine but nitpicking details just because you want an objective reason not to like something other then that it didn't engage your interest enough is a little petty.


Aside from honestly not paying attention or not being able to keep up, I also think that often people 'make up' plotholes by pretending to be stupider than they are. Mainly not being willing to see anything as 'implied' and only accepting things that have been clearly spelled out and/or shown as explanations for things.

But in reality fiction always relies in the viewer to do his part, to fill in some of the gaps in the narrative by using common sense and interpretation. Just because we didn't see something happen, doesn't make it a plothole. When a narrative presents you with some new facts, the first thing you should ask yourself is 'okay, what has to have happened off screen to make that situation happen?', and not immediately calling it a plothole.

In the small scale everyone does it all the time when watching anime or fiction. There is never time to show everything. Scenes might show a character walking to a house and then cut to that character being inside the house. We never got to see him open the door and enter the building, and as far as we know he does not have the ability to teleport so is this a plothole? What happened during the cut?

Nobody asks these questions because it's obviously implied that he walked the rest of the way and opened the door before entering even if it wasn't explicitly shown. But if you make the scenes more complex and omit longer and more important parts, the same principle still applies. It should always first be assumed that whatever happened off screen makes whatever happens on screen make sense. If you can't make sense of it, maybe you just lack imagination or the intelligence to make sense of it? Not every show is equally easy to keep up with.

But I find it very annoying when people always and immediately blame the show for having 'plotholes' whenever their tiny little brains fail to make sense of something because it wasn't explicitly shown or explained in great detail. Consuming fiction isn't just a passive activity where you only soak in what happens on screen, it also requires you to think yourself, fill in the gaps, catch onto implied information or come up with interpretations that make sense of what you see.

So to me the 'plot hole' criticism is more often than not a simple sign of laziness, of the unwillingness or unability to apply your own brain to the show. Either because there is nothing to apply in the first place, or because they want to shit on the show and know that pretending that a show only consists of what is actively shown and spelled out is an extremely easy way to 'find' (make up) criticisms.


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Oct 31, 2019 9:09 AM

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If it's a huge plothole, then yeah that's a problem.
I don't mind minor plotholes, though. But if there are too much of them, then that's a problem.

That's why JoJo Part 3 is the worst JoJo part.
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Oct 31, 2019 9:27 AM

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If it's a big screw up I'll be merciless but if it's something minor that does not tick me off then I can turn a blind eye.
After all, no show is perfect.


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Oct 31, 2019 9:29 AM

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I either don't recognize the plot holes since I've already come up with plausible explanations in my head, or I just don't really care much about them.
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Oct 31, 2019 9:35 AM

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It depends how big the plothole is, and the context its in. I don't tend to pay much attention to plotholes in a fantasy show, for example, but if their are plotholes in a mystery series it bothers me more because I expect those types of shows to pay attention to detail. A lot of the time, plot holes can easily be explained away but if they're just ridiculous and create impossible situations then it does bother me.

This also means they aren't my favourite shows. Not all shows are perfect, but if I can't enjoy something due to inconsistencies in the plot then they're not going to be in my favourites list.







 
Oct 31, 2019 9:41 AM

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Plot holes can mess up your enjoyment pretty well. Like in Rainbow the whole arc is dedicated on Ishihara trying to kill Sakuragi and get away with it. He makes all those intricate planning to make it untracable but when the other benevolent guard intervenes he straights up murders him and is able to magically frame it as a car accident. What the fuck is the point of all these episodes then, if you could already do that shit? It does irritate you when the author treats you like an idiot.
Modified by Orhunaa, Oct 31, 2019 9:44 AM

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Oct 31, 2019 9:48 AM

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Depends on how major, although if it was a major plothole it probably wouldn't be on my favorites. I guess with smaller plotholes as long as my immersion into the series isn't ruined I'm ok with it.
 
Oct 31, 2019 10:09 AM

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Of course, everybody does if it's something you really like. Sometimes depending on the plot hole it may be frustrating but I can be forgiving if the characters compensate, which if its a favorite it's just given.
 
Oct 31, 2019 10:19 AM

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Some plot holes are the cause of it being not complete adaptation... so it can't be helped sometimes.


 
Oct 31, 2019 10:29 AM
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Just how big of a plot hole are we talking about? I might not "forgiving" per se but perhaps begrudgingly tolerant!
 
Oct 31, 2019 10:36 AM

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There is no simple answer to such questions, it's heavily context-dependent, depending on what sort of anime it is, how the plot hole interferes with what the narrative is doing (or doesn't) etc.
 
Oct 31, 2019 10:41 AM

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Depends on the length of the show, the tinier the scope the less plotholes are forgiven.

If the themes are executed in a nutti way, i can also "miss" some plotholes.
 
Oct 31, 2019 10:53 AM
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i don't mind plot-holes ever. they help to make the pacing faster and to decimate the length of the show.
 
Oct 31, 2019 11:08 AM
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Pullman said:
Bebop_Hakusho said:


I completely agree with this, especially on how most so called plotholes have very simple explainations. If you didn't like the show enough to pay close attention to the logic behind certain plot points that's fine but nitpicking details just because you want an objective reason not to like something other then that it didn't engage your interest enough is a little petty.


Aside from honestly not paying attention or not being able to keep up, I also think that often people 'make up' plotholes by pretending to be stupider than they are. Mainly not being willing to see anything as 'implied' and only accepting things that have been clearly spelled out and/or shown as explanations for things.

But in reality fiction always relies in the viewer to do his part, to fill in some of the gaps in the narrative by using common sense and interpretation. Just because we didn't see something happen, doesn't make it a plothole. When a narrative presents you with some new facts, the first thing you should ask yourself is 'okay, what has to have happened off screen to make that situation happen?', and not immediately calling it a plothole.

In the small scale everyone does it all the time when watching anime or fiction. There is never time to show everything. Scenes might show a character walking to a house and then cut to that character being inside the house. We never got to see him open the door and enter the building, and as far as we know he does not have the ability to teleport so is this a plothole? What happened during the cut?

Nobody asks these questions because it's obviously implied that he walked the rest of the way and opened the door before entering even if it wasn't explicitly shown. But if you make the scenes more complex and omit longer and more important parts, the same principle still applies. It should always first be assumed that whatever happened off screen makes whatever happens on screen make sense. If you can't make sense of it, maybe you just lack imagination or the intelligence to make sense of it? Not every show is equally easy to keep up with.

But I find it very annoying when people always and immediately blame the show for having 'plotholes' whenever their tiny little brains fail to make sense of something because it wasn't explicitly shown or explained in great detail. Consuming fiction isn't just a passive activity where you only soak in what happens on screen, it also requires you to think yourself, fill in the gaps, catch onto implied information or come up with interpretations that make sense of what you see.

So to me the 'plot hole' criticism is more often than not a simple sign of laziness, of the unwillingness or unability to apply your own brain to the show. Either because there is nothing to apply in the first place, or because they want to shit on the show and know that pretending that a show only consists of what is actively shown and spelled out is an extremely easy way to 'find' (make up) criticisms.


While I think maybe it's a little unfair to call it stupidity, I guess that does happen to be be the case sometimes. Mostly though I feel it has to do with human nature that makes some people want to find something wrong with a fictional work so they can feel smart when in most cases there's a logical explanation that just takes a little more digging to find.
One of the most common types of criticisms of this nature comes from people rewatching something or thinking back on a character choice and in hind sight seeing a better option that would've brought the plot to a halt. If you didn't think of it at the moment either then why would the character do so?
I guess this kind of thing is more obvious to me because the central narrative or plot is one of the least interesting elements for me. Where as world building is something I'm actually invested in so whenever something that might feel like a plot contrivance comes up I'm more willing than some to look into in-universe reasons for it. Stuff like out of character moments and forced messages/themes are far more likely to take me out of a story and hurt my overall experience.
So I guess it's a matter of where your preferences lie. Some really enjoy narrative driven stories and prefer to have everything spelled out so they can follow it easily. Which I think is fine but I do wish they wouldn't nitpick problems that don't actually exist and spread misinformation online. I know from first hand experience that some people (including the person who started this thread) have little to no idea what a plot hole actually is so I guess those of us who do just have to do our best to either educate or ignore them and let them enjoy and criticize in their own way misguided as it may be. You can't convince everybody so we might as well try and be civil and get along.
 
Oct 31, 2019 11:27 AM

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I honestly dont mind some plot holes but it depends on the kind of show, if its a show with an intellectual focus I tend to be much stricter. A comedy for example should make me laugh, I dont care about plotholes in those. Having plotholes in LoGH is a big deal though.

Also it depends on how big the hole is. If in Death Note for example the rules of the death note suddenly changed to fit the story, its a big deal.

If its an "Araki forgot" moment in Jojo. Well. Who cares?
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Oct 31, 2019 2:30 PM

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hell yea .... if im biased towards the show because of my enjoyment
 
Oct 31, 2019 2:34 PM

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Yeah, a few plotholes are always tolerable.
 
Oct 31, 2019 2:38 PM

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if i liked the story enough to not notice a plot hole or two then its forgiven.
if im watching the last episode or few episodes still questions what just happened because event c just cancelled event a and event b was turned to event a which made event b not happen also cancelling event c then not so much
 
Oct 31, 2019 2:44 PM

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you won't find a story without a plot hole somewhere so yes.
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Oct 31, 2019 4:30 PM

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Yes. As long as I enjoy something, I can overlook plotholes.. unless the very plothole's taking away my enjoyment lol.

 
Oct 31, 2019 6:17 PM

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I guess so. Lots of my faves have some small holes here and there, but they have redeeming qualities that can get over almost all of noticeable ones.

Though some ceased to be my favorites when the holes became like rips in an umbrella.
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Oct 31, 2019 8:57 PM

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Well probably if it’s my favorite. But I’ll acknowledge it still, nothings perfect.
 
Oct 31, 2019 10:55 PM
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I don't see plotholes in my favourite anime
That's why they are my favourites.
I mean, I am watching anime, not looking for holes.
Modified by Iyya, Oct 31, 2019 10:58 PM
 
Nov 1, 2019 1:25 AM

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It's not uncommon for more complex or long-running stories to build up plot holes or inconsistencies over time. Of course, it depends on the frequency and severity, but unless it's very extreme, I can overlook it if I like a series enough.
 
Nov 1, 2019 3:51 AM

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Yeah . i switch off my mind when it comes to anime . try giving it the best chance to make me enjoy it . So i instinctively avoide noticing somethings like plot holes etc . and that's it
 
Nov 1, 2019 7:47 AM

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Plot holes aren't the end-all-be-all for a show, at least for me. I focus more on the emotional and thematic experience of something, generally.
 
Nov 1, 2019 10:13 AM
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ummm,

My personal favourite show, mahouka koukou no rettosei.
Yes, compared to the ln contains many plot holes, well, more accurately, it is such a great idea with so much to work on, a lot of infomation is forfeited to make it decent sized. That didn’t make it a bad show in my eyes, I could easily follow along with the story and loved it. Maybe because i watched before reading.

On the other hand, one of at the time my favourite ln, saijaku Muhai no Bahamut, to me had an awful adaption, maybe because I was expecting some scenes that got entirely cut out, and it rather changed my view of other anime adaptations.

So, I don’t tend to mind plot holes, if they are styled out, but jumping into another scene and then trying to make up for it with a flashback, just confuses me.
 
Nov 1, 2019 10:19 AM

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I literally have Kimi no Nawa in my favorites. I'm willing to ignore plot holes if I love the show so much.
 
Nov 1, 2019 8:07 PM
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Of course, its a favorite afterall. Doesnt mean i'll act like the plothole isnt there though.
 
Nov 1, 2019 8:12 PM

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What should I forgive they have no plotholes
 
Nov 2, 2019 3:49 AM

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Interesting question, because while I might say that I do (sometimes), it's also unjust to completely... forgive, and ignore truths at the same time. I must always remind myself that acknowledgement is important, and wholly neglecting it is foolish, narrow-minded and bigoted. So, even if I forgive all the flaws, I still have to give it the score it truly deserves without being too biased.
. . .
 
Nov 2, 2019 7:18 AM

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Depends on the plot hole tbh. If it's a big one like a plot hole that is too glaring to ignore then I'd have a grind about that and I will not forgive out of character plot holes either.
Otherwise if it's minor issues then I'd let it pass. Even then it has to be careful not to stray into having too many minor plot holes.
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Nov 2, 2019 10:05 AM

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>Fullmetal Alchemist
>Plotholes

Kek, lol, jajaja, Ay lmao, *breathes in* *breathes out*


Next joke please.
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Nov 2, 2019 10:42 AM

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Nick-Knight said:
>Fullmetal Alchemist
>Plotholes

Kek, lol, jajaja, Ay lmao, *breathes in* *breathes out*


Next joke please.


there was plot convenience like greed never using his shield fully to cover his body against bradley
 
Nov 6, 2019 6:49 AM

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I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to plotholes, and no, I do not forgive them. ESPECIALLY in favourite animes, because it's a giant pet peeve of mine.

Honestly, I love completion and well thought through plots. I saw someone said that often plotholes are not even plotholes, and I agree with them - however, just as often, plotholes are, in fact, really plotholes. All depends on what series we are talking about.

But yeah, plotholes ultimately ruin animes to me. No matter how fond I am of them.
 
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