Forum Settings
Forums

Protests Grow in Lebanon as Anger Explodes at Political Elite

#1
Oct 19, 10:12 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5523
Tens of thousands of protesters filled the streets for a third day in Lebanon on Saturday, demanding the removal of a political elite they say has lined its pockets at the nation’s expense.

Flag-waving demonstrators converged once again on Beirut’s central business district, home to bank and government headquarters, where rioters clashed with police late into the night Friday. The protests first erupted Thursday night after the government said it might impose a fee on Whatsapp calls as part of broader efforts to shore up government revenues and avert an economic collapse

Highlighting the depth of anger with political elites, the demonstrations have cut across sectarian and party lines that normally dominate political action in Lebanon. Unrest has spread to strongholds of political figures including parliamentary speaker Nabih Berri, an ally of Iranian-backed Hezbollah, whose loyalists scuffled with demonstrators on Saturday.

The protests have increased pressure on Prime Minister Saad al-Hariri, who has given his rivals in the coalition government until Monday to back an economic reform program that could help unlock some $11 billion in international aid pledges. He held a series of meetings Saturday with other political leaders to seek a way out of the crisis.

It won’t be easy for one of the most indebted countries in the world, which needs to find fresh sources of funding as the foreign inflows on which it has traditionally relied have dried up. Persistent instability in Lebanon has shaken investor confidence and made it harder to revive an economy already struggling to absorb more than 1.5 million Syrian refugees who have fled the war next door.

The International Monetary Fund projects Lebanon’s current-account deficit will reach almost 30% of gross domestic product by the end of this year. It predicts that economic growth, stagnant at 0.3% in 2018, would continue to be weak. Public debt is projected to increase to 155% of gross domestic product by the end of 2019.


Rest of the article: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-19/lebanon-s-hezbollah-says-government-must-stay-despite-protest

Kingdom of Lebanon when?
 
#2
Oct 19, 10:46 AM
Online
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 48661
welp that will speed up the economic collapse but thats what the people want since looks like they are blaming their incompetent political elites to why this economic collapse is happening in the first place
 
#3
Oct 19, 10:55 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5523
deg said:
welp that will speed up the economic collapse but thats what the people want since looks like they are blaming their incompetent political elites to why this economic collapse is happening in the first place
Revolutions always end up making things worse, especially in the Middle East. Should've gone for something less harmful for the actual country.
 
#4
Oct 19, 11:24 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
They should protest in a gandhian way if they don't want to harm their own country.
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
#5
Oct 19, 11:28 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5523
cythraul said:
They should protest in a gandhian way if they don't want to harm their own country.
Not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but there are always less aggressive ways to plead for change. Said country is a "Republic" thus they can always vote the government out but they only see the issues when they hang straight at their faces. Blame the citizens for laziness and blame the government for negligence. Mostly the former.
 
#6
Oct 20, 12:05 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
Yarub said:
cythraul said:
They should protest in a gandhian way if they don't want to harm their own country.
Not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but there are always less aggressive ways to plead for change. Said country is a "Republic" thus they can always vote the government out but they only see the issues when they hang straight at their faces. Blame the citizens for laziness and blame the government for negligence. Mostly the former.

Narratives matter a lot in this case so if public actually has some strong and less harmful method to follow then that might help them. 'Voting the government out' is surely convenient, but simply doing that almost never hits corrupt politicians on face as much as protest does.
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
#7
Oct 20, 12:22 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2913
I’m in Lebanon.

People are protesting cause they’re fed up.
We are fed up with the new and increasing taxes, politicians bending over for foreign masters, corrupted politicians feeding their own pockets, no electricity, no water, garbage crisis, and no money to eat or teach children.
The Lebanese person is only thinking of leaving and working outside Lebanon once he finishes his degree. My friends who graduated and found a job are all working in the gulf countries (UAE-Saudi Arabia). We have given them many chances.
It’s not about the shitty WhatsApp (or any free call service) tax ($6 per month). That was merely the final nail in the coffin or the final straw.

As a protestor said in Arabic and I translate, “All what’s missing is for them to place a counter on our asses to charge us for our shit”.

The protests are peaceful. I went to one yesterday. However, there are certain people being placed between the protestors to create clashes and divert the protest from its goal. Yesterday, the protestors tried to counter this by handing over a person who threw a bottle at the Police.
But you know it’s hard not to be very angry when an ex-politician (Mosbah Al-ahdab) had his men open fire on people blocking the road, injuring 4 and killing 2 in the process, or Nabih Berri and Hezbollah Sympathizers beating their own protesting Shia people. Is that who we want? Politicians who shoot and beat their own people? just No.
Modified by Ibuki_22, Oct 20, 2:50 AM
 
#8
Oct 20, 2:40 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 31829
One way to disable corrupt politicians is cut off the flow of money to them. Hurt the proffits of their backers. Once their financial influence is gone they would surrender to will of people easier directly via their submission or indirectly via their downfall from weakened influence.
 
#9
Oct 20, 5:00 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2913
Even as protests rage, Lebanese people find their way to create fun and memes from protests on some occasions.


Watch this.
DJ plays music from his balcony for protestors in Tripoli city.

https://mobile.twitter.com/arabnews/status/1185641698019414017

Edit: it seems BBC also reported this lmao.

Modified by Ibuki_22, Oct 22, 2:02 PM
 
Oct 20, 5:14 AM
Online
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 48661
is this the beginning of another Arab Spring but this time worldwide? the ordinary people are fighting back the global elites starting with government leaders lol next are against the rich capitalists ye? lol
 
Oct 20, 10:02 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5523
@Ibuki_22 is it really just your politicians pocketing everything (which is the case, just not as extreme)? or is it the fact that the people allowed them to pocket everything; there's a difference. Like I said, blame the citizens for laziness or blame the government for negligence?

traed said:
One way to disable corrupt politicians is cut off the flow of money to them. Hurt the proffits of their backers. Once their financial influence is gone they would surrender to will of people easier directly via their submission or indirectly via their downfall from weakened influence.
They are corrupt, so they'd just pay some of their current billions to secure their income. An economic revolution can be solved with money.

deg said:
is this the beginning of another Arab Spring but this time worldwide? the ordinary people are fighting back the global elites starting with government leaders lol next are against the rich capitalists ye? lol
Not quite. The Arab Spring was a prime failure and a historical laughing stock.
 
Oct 20, 10:56 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2913
@Yarub

Unfortunately, these politicians have a good amount of blind followers and goons through indoctrination and financial recruitment, and they use fear mongering to push people to keep the government in power. Not saying everyone is blinded, but every party has its share of blind followers. Thankfully at least, it seems many of those blind followers have woken up today.

Each time we try to change the people in parliament through voting, the same people come up again in power. I myself did not vote last elections cause I was below age of voting, but I heard that many people placed a blank card in the voting cabinets because the same corrupted people were running for elections and the few good ones lost in the election run, and there were talks of rigging that were quickly stifled, so it’s no surprise if even the elections had a hint of corruption. You can say these protests are not only aimed at politicians, but it’s also the Lebanese owning up to their mistake of being too patient and complacent with these political figures. You reach a limit where you just can’t take shit anymore. Many people are saying if we hold another election, these same people will find a way to thrust themselves into power again. That’s why there is no option except resignation and returning the power and stolen money to the people.

The Lebanese people have enough educated people and specialists to work and stir this country with their expertise (you can see how big the diaspora is also. Heck there are more Lebanese outside Lebanon working and contributing outside cause they had to go for better opportunities), not some half assed politician who got appointed cause his uncle happened to be the head of a parliament or some half-assed minister who gets appointed as a minister cause his wife’s father is the president (talking about the retard Gebran Bassil). We have protested before (this is not the first time), but they were never as effective as today because today there is more unity and numbers and a higher voice/impact.
Modified by Ibuki_22, Oct 20, 11:17 AM
 
Oct 20, 2:55 PM
Online
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 48661
Yarub said:

deg said:
is this the beginning of another Arab Spring but this time worldwide? the ordinary people are fighting back the global elites starting with government leaders lol next are against the rich capitalists ye? lol
Not quite. The Arab Spring was a prime failure and a historical laughing stock.


well i think historically revolutions like the french revolution are failures that did not improve things (immediately) afterwards anyway so its just the revolution itself to remove the rich/elites is the main point

same thing happened with the peoples power revolution here in the philippines
 
Oct 20, 9:25 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 31829
Yarub said:
@Ibuki_22 is it really just your politicians pocketing everything (which is the case, just not as extreme)? or is it the fact that the people allowed them to pocket everything; there's a difference. Like I said, blame the citizens for laziness or blame the government for negligence?

traed said:
One way to disable corrupt politicians is cut off the flow of money to them. Hurt the proffits of their backers. Once their financial influence is gone they would surrender to will of people easier directly via their submission or indirectly via their downfall from weakened influence.
They are corrupt, so they'd just pay some of their current billions to secure their income. An economic revolution can be solved with money.

deg said:
is this the beginning of another Arab Spring but this time worldwide? the ordinary people are fighting back the global elites starting with government leaders lol next are against the rich capitalists ye? lol
Not quite. The Arab Spring was a prime failure and a historical laughing stock.


It all depends on how many income sources they have and if their finances are in banks or in assets.
 
Oct 21, 6:02 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5523
Ibuki_22 said:
@Yarub

Unfortunately, these politicians have a good amount of blind followers and goons through indoctrination and financial recruitment, and they use fear mongering to push people to keep the government in power. Not saying everyone is blinded, but every party has its share of blind followers. Thankfully at least, it seems many of those blind followers have woken up today.

Each time we try to change the people in parliament through voting, the same people come up again in power. I myself did not vote last elections cause I was below age of voting, but I heard that many people placed a blank card in the voting cabinets because the same corrupted people were running for elections and the few good ones lost in the election run, and there were talks of rigging that were quickly stifled, so it’s no surprise if even the elections had a hint of corruption. You can say these protests are not only aimed at politicians, but it’s also the Lebanese owning up to their mistake of being too patient and complacent with these political figures. You reach a limit where you just can’t take shit anymore. Many people are saying if we hold another election, these same people will find a way to thrust themselves into power again. That’s why there is no option except resignation and returning the power and stolen money to the people.

The Lebanese people have enough educated people and specialists to work and stir this country with their expertise (you can see how big the diaspora is also. Heck there are more Lebanese outside Lebanon working and contributing outside cause they had to go for better opportunities), not some half assed politician who got appointed cause his uncle happened to be the head of a parliament or some half-assed minister who gets appointed as a minister cause his wife’s father is the president (talking about the retard Gebran Bassil). We have protested before (this is not the first time), but they were never as effective as today because today there is more unity and numbers and a higher voice/impact.
Another reason why democracies are a sham, the whole system defeats the purpose of a revolution. Blaming it on rigged elections, or the fact that the same people will get elected either way is just the result of your system being put into place and manipulated for personal gain. The whole structure of the government, if it allows this amount of corruption is flawed and should be discarded. Don't overthrow the politicians; overthrow the system.

 
Oct 21, 6:46 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2913
Yarub said:
Ibuki_22 said:
@Yarub

Unfortunately, these politicians have a good amount of blind followers and goons through indoctrination and financial recruitment, and they use fear mongering to push people to keep the government in power. Not saying everyone is blinded, but every party has its share of blind followers. Thankfully at least, it seems many of those blind followers have woken up today.

Each time we try to change the people in parliament through voting, the same people come up again in power. I myself did not vote last elections cause I was below age of voting, but I heard that many people placed a blank card in the voting cabinets because the same corrupted people were running for elections and the few good ones lost in the election run, and there were talks of rigging that were quickly stifled, so it’s no surprise if even the elections had a hint of corruption. You can say these protests are not only aimed at politicians, but it’s also the Lebanese owning up to their mistake of being too patient and complacent with these political figures. You reach a limit where you just can’t take shit anymore. Many people are saying if we hold another election, these same people will find a way to thrust themselves into power again. That’s why there is no option except resignation and returning the power and stolen money to the people.

The Lebanese people have enough educated people and specialists to work and stir this country with their expertise (you can see how big the diaspora is also. Heck there are more Lebanese outside Lebanon working and contributing outside cause they had to go for better opportunities), not some half assed politician who got appointed cause his uncle happened to be the head of a parliament or some half-assed minister who gets appointed as a minister cause his wife’s father is the president (talking about the retard Gebran Bassil). We have protested before (this is not the first time), but they were never as effective as today because today there is more unity and numbers and a higher voice/impact.
Another reason why democracies are a sham, the whole system defeats the purpose of a revolution. Blaming it on rigged elections, or the fact that the same people will get elected either way is just the result of your system being put into place and manipulated for personal gain. The whole structure of the government, if it allows this amount of corruption is flawed and should be discarded. Don't overthrow the politicians; overthrow the system.




That’s also another point to consider.
It’s worth noting that removing the politicians is only the first step.
The whole political system needs an overhaul.
Lebanon has a confessional sectarian democratic political system which divides seats among sects of different religions where “Oh your party/sect gets X seats, his party gets Y seats, etc”, but no one wants anymore political power based on a sectarian division. They want people who have actual qualifications and integrity to stir the country regardless of background (i.e. regardless of which sect they belong to). Not half assed politicians in a half-assed political system that distributes seats like you’re distributing pizza slices on a dinner table where every political party is only concerned with who gets the most seats and most influence and thus the most stolen money. As someone pointed, lebanon is being run by outdated systems and politicians who have overstayed their welcome, them and their families. There are certain regulations and legislations that probably worked in the 1960’s but they’re outdated at this point.
Modified by Ibuki_22, Oct 21, 7:04 AM
 
Oct 21, 7:10 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2913
Ministers from the Lebanese Forces party led by Samir Geagea have already been ordered to resign by Geagea himself.
Saad al-Hariri gave a 3 day period to his political partners to start reforms, but it’s too late. The trust has been broken to the point of no return. What didn’t happen in 3-4 years won’t happen in 3 days. The 3 day period is almost over.
 
Oct 21, 11:55 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2913
Small Update:

Hundreds of pro-hezbollah and pro-amal movement shia tried to attack and lead a counter-protest against the ongoing the protests. They were praising one of the corrupted politicians who is called “Nabih Berri”.

As a sunni, I have nothing against my shia brothers. I love them just as I love my brothers. I know that many shia today in Lebanon are protesting against the corrupted politicians. However, the shia still have the biggest vocal minority who are still dick riding the political parties and their leaders as was evident by them waving flags of political parties and attempting a counter-protest. Luckily, the military has beaten back those pro-hezbollah and pro-amal supporters who attempted a counter-protest.

No sunni has shown political allegiance to a political party on the ground (those who have political allegiances are probably frightened in their homes), and no sunni on the street has waved the flag of a sunni political party. People only waved the Lebanese flags. Same goes for our christian Lebanese brothers. Only the shia, despite their significant involvement in the revolution (which I appreciate), still have hard-headed goons who have the audacity to still publicly suck up to corrupted politicians.
 
Top