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What if anime becomes a respectable medium in the West?

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#1
Oct 18, 11:44 PM
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You did it! Anime is respected by all now. It is not only for kids or perverts, it is smart and it has higher value now. So now what? Do you understand that if this happens crappy anime and fanservice will seize... no more panty shots, no more sexualised minors, incest, edgy protagonists, hateful messages, wishfulfilment! Now they will need to keep an image for the international folk and will not be able to get away with as much as when they only catered to the established Otaku fanbase. Think more. Anime as we know it will die... do you really want this?
 
#2
Oct 19, 12:10 AM

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This is why every country should have the same culture as Japan.
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Filter my anime list by fetish:
Ass - Boxing - Bunny - Catfight - S&M - Wrestling
 
#3
Oct 19, 12:42 AM

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AkaneManiac said:
Anime as we know it will die... do you really want this?

Yeah, I guess I do. Sounds like it'd be fun.
 
#4
Oct 19, 1:22 AM

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I don't really think something like that would happen in the future, yes there are some "Twitter normies" with Demon Slayer/MHA profile pics complaining about stuff like Lolis, Panty shots, sexulized teens and etc... but it backfires most of the time by a large amount of other anime fans.

But other then that I don't see why the west would like to change the medium as a whole.
 
#5
Oct 19, 1:31 AM

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AkaneManiac said:
You did it! Anime is respected by all now. It is not only for kids or perverts, it is smart and it has higher value now. So now what? Do you understand that if this happens crappy anime and fanservice will seize... no more panty shots, no more sexualised minors, incest, edgy protagonists, hateful messages, wishfulfilment! Now they will need to keep an image for the international folk and will not be able to get away with as much as when they only catered to the established Otaku fanbase. Think more. Anime as we know it will die... do you really want this?
No other medium has stopped catering to niches just because the medium as a whole became famous/big/respected/etc..

Even in the depths of the mid 00s, there were still some folks who made pixel-art 2D platformers. And that was before indie games took off and broadly revived the genre.

There isn't just only one kind of anime that gets made at a time. It's dozens of studios working on dozens of productions...and anime getting more respected just means more money going into the industry, meaning more productions.

As long as the demand exists to be served, someone will try to cater to it.

Also, don't act like anime is all "panty shots, sexualized minors, incest, edgy protagonists, hateful messages, wishfulfillment" [sic]. (also what even is "hateful messages"? There's trope that gets used is "peace and love".) And don't act like all anime fans are into anime for these things either. There's quite a variety of content in anime that already exists, and there also exist quite a variety of tastes among fans.
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Oct 19, 1:35 AM
 
#6
Oct 19, 1:33 AM

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The premise that catering would stop is likely flawed because if it suddenly gained mass respect the assumption would be they respect it in its current form. Respect doesn't mean anything if there isn't a notable shift in demand and profit so production committees will continue to focus on what generates sales.

Granted even in the most idealistic scenario most of the shows that become respected would fit the same mold of shows that are already respected, primarily action anime with a particular emphasis on major Shounen titles. Basically the shows that are already popular would still be popular.
 
#7
Oct 19, 1:45 AM
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ye sure i rather watch hentai than ecchi anime anyway and i do not like sexualize lolis too

fuck this #AnimeGate crap
 
#8
Oct 19, 2:10 AM
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I doubt that's gonna happen. Mediums never stop catering to niches and anime is not all about the things you mentioned. There's a lot of variety in genres and preferences among fans. As long as there's people that enjoy the "crappy animes" you are talking about it'll never cease to exist. Even if it gained respect.
But no more sexualised minors and no incest? Sounds great to me actually. I wouldn't even get mad if they stopped that. It's creepy and disgusting to say the least.
 
#9
Oct 19, 2:11 AM

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It's already becoming more accepted as it's becoming more popular.
 
Oct 19, 2:17 AM

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The more mainstream anime becomes the more accepted and respected it will get.
I would say that it's already respectable and accepted in the west for the most part.

X s t a s y

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―Cheshire Cat

 
Oct 19, 2:39 AM
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so in other words...


anime gets woke?


no thank you, if i wanted western garbage, i'd watch/read what the west puts out

theres a good reason anime is growing and western comics/cartoons are dying




 
Oct 19, 3:07 AM

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No, it would just be PC SJW shit like we get with the BBC. Every 4th person would have to be black, at least one disabled person in every anime etc.
 
Oct 19, 4:22 AM

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Shoko664 said:
I don't really think something like that would happen in the future, yes there are some "Twitter normies" with Demon Slayer/MHA profile pics complaining about stuff like Lolis, Panty shots, sexulized teens and etc... but it backfires most of the time by a large amount of other anime fans.

But other then that I don't see why the west would like to change the medium as a whole.


Those guys who complain about lolis and panty shots exist on MAL as well.
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
Oct 19, 4:24 AM

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Anime should never become mainstream outside of japan.
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
Oct 19, 4:26 AM

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QPR said:
No, it would just be PC SJW shit like we get with the BBC. Every 4th person would have to be black, at least one disabled person in every anime etc.


Then there are people who get offended on a religious basis.
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
Oct 19, 4:30 AM

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cythraul said:
Anime should never become mainstream outside of japan.
anime isnt even mainstream in japan, its just as niche there as it is in the west
 
Oct 19, 4:32 AM
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HisokaxMeruem said:
cythraul said:
Anime should never become mainstream outside of japan.
anime isnt even mainstream in japan, its just as niche there as it is in the west

The popular ones are stuff like already established giant franchises. But it is true that manga is king there!
 
Oct 19, 4:32 AM

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HisokaxMeruem said:
cythraul said:
Anime should never become mainstream outside of japan.
anime isnt even mainstream in japan, its just as niche there as it is in the west

It is certainly recognizable or should I say big enough to steer some controversy inside the country.
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
Oct 20, 5:28 PM

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This thread ain't dying on my watch.
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Filter my anime list by fetish:
Ass - Boxing - Bunny - Catfight - S&M - Wrestling
 
Oct 21, 1:10 AM

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Just like entertainment in the west now has no sexualization. Just like there isn't a variety of shows in the west targeting different demographics, sometimes edgy and sometimes wish fulfilment. Finally anime will stop being so wildly different in these key aspects?
 
Oct 21, 1:17 AM

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


impossible

 
Oct 21, 1:32 AM

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No thanks, it already infected Sony, just at look at how their primary targets for their puritanical censorship rampage are, anime games with ecchi focus or ecchi CG's, what's more, is that Sony also has a hand in some anime iirc, so yeah, no thanks. We already have a lot of people who whine about those things on this site to begin with.
 
Oct 21, 2:48 AM

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Tropisch said:
No thanks, it already infected Sony, just at look at how their primary targets for their puritanical censorship rampage are, anime games with ecchi focus or ecchi CG's, what's more, is that Sony also has a hand in some anime iirc, so yeah, no thanks. We already have a lot of people who whine about those things on this site to begin with.

Also funimation ruining all anime translations, recently they changed something from "You are such a jerk" to "You are a misogynist".
America and its agenda pushing is disgusting and ruins anime, pretty sure they did something similar to kobayashi-san dragon maid too.
https://twitter.com/Nicchiban_/status/1185759425463803904 here is the tweet about it
 
Oct 21, 2:48 AM

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Sturgeon's law. There'll always be bad shows. There'll always be good shows. It doesn't really matter.
 
Oct 21, 6:45 PM

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HisokaxMeruem said:
Tropisch said:
No thanks, it already infected Sony, just at look at how their primary targets for their puritanical censorship rampage are, anime games with ecchi focus or ecchi CG's, what's more, is that Sony also has a hand in some anime iirc, so yeah, no thanks. We already have a lot of people who whine about those things on this site to begin with.

Also funimation ruining all anime translations, recently they changed something from "You are such a jerk" to "You are a misogynist".
America and its agenda pushing is disgusting and ruins anime, pretty sure they did something similar to kobayashi-san dragon maid too.
https://twitter.com/Nicchiban_/status/1185759425463803904 here is the tweet about it

Yup, they made Quetz says something along the lines of "The patriarchy demands!" iirc.
 
Oct 21, 9:06 PM

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SillySlySy said:
Just like entertainment in the west now has no sexualization.
lol wat

SillySlySy said:
Just like there isn't a variety of shows in the west targeting different demographics, sometimes edgy and sometimes wish fulfilment.
Uh, let's not forget that Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey are western works.

HisokaxMeruem said:
Tropisch said:
No thanks, it already infected Sony, just at look at how their primary targets for their puritanical censorship rampage are, anime games with ecchi focus or ecchi CG's, what's more, is that Sony also has a hand in some anime iirc, so yeah, no thanks. We already have a lot of people who whine about those things on this site to begin with.

Also funimation ruining all anime translations, recently they changed something from "You are such a jerk" to "You are a misogynist".
America and its agenda pushing is disgusting and ruins anime, pretty sure they did something similar to kobayashi-san dragon maid too.
https://twitter.com/Nicchiban_/status/1185759425463803904 here is the tweet about it
There's like three shows this complaint is always about (Prison School, Hajimete no Gal, and Dragon maid), and this video mentions all of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGyxm1zsijk IIRC, it even mentions that one of them was changed to a different thing for the home release as opposed to the stream version which had that particular thing.

FWIW I don't think that "agenda pushing" is necessarily the best interpretation. They kinda also make sense as poorly-aging references.

Besides, there's always the sub.
 
Oct 21, 9:11 PM

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GlennMagusHarvey said:
SillySlySy said:
Just like entertainment in the west now has no sexualization.
lol wat

SillySlySy said:
Just like there isn't a variety of shows in the west targeting different demographics, sometimes edgy and sometimes wish fulfilment.
Uh, let's not forget that Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey are western works.
I was being sarcastic, but I guess this thread proves that people have some seriously out of touch ideas about the world so I can't blame you for your response.
 
Oct 21, 9:12 PM
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Then I wouldn't have to pay $70 to import Extravaganza Epoch.

I mean, yeah, I get it. I'm a super fan. But even I have my limits and the RAWs work well enough for editing.
 
Oct 22, 7:48 AM

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GlennMagusHarvey said:
SillySlySy said:
Just like entertainment in the west now has no sexualization.
lol wat

SillySlySy said:
Just like there isn't a variety of shows in the west targeting different demographics, sometimes edgy and sometimes wish fulfilment.
Uh, let's not forget that Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey are western works.

HisokaxMeruem said:

Also funimation ruining all anime translations, recently they changed something from "You are such a jerk" to "You are a misogynist".
America and its agenda pushing is disgusting and ruins anime, pretty sure they did something similar to kobayashi-san dragon maid too.
https://twitter.com/Nicchiban_/status/1185759425463803904 here is the tweet about it
There's like three shows this complaint is always about (Prison School, Hajimete no Gal, and Dragon maid), and this video mentions all of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGyxm1zsijk IIRC, it even mentions that one of them was changed to a different thing for the home release as opposed to the stream version which had that particular thing.

FWIW I don't think that "agenda pushing" is necessarily the best interpretation. They kinda also make sense as poorly-aging references.

Besides, there's always the sub.

Funimation is filled with SJW and feminists that try to push their own ideals onto other people, the shit that happened to vic mignogna is proof of that.
 
Oct 22, 7:53 AM
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Another retarded right-wing fearmonger thread about the evil west trying to come for anime and censor everything unlike the very anti-censorship japanese...

Is this really what the anime community is about these days? Retarded people pretending to be anime fans to spread their bullshit, anti-westen political rhetoric? Fuck all of you.



The whole premise is bullshit from the start. If anime wasn't already a respected medium in the west, then why does every big western streaming service invest so much money into anime?

Aesthetic value can be recognized or experienced, but it cannot be conveyed to those who are incapable of grasping its sensations and perceptions. To quarrel on its behalf is always a blunder.
 
Oct 22, 8:07 AM

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EcchiGodMamster said:
so in other words...


anime gets woke?


no thank you, if i wanted western garbage, i'd watch/read what the west puts out

theres a good reason anime is growing and western comics/cartoons are dying





I'm not sure this is true. I just think Japan has more studios pushing out anime. Western Comics are being made into big blockbuster movies (annoying that we get a hundred batman and spiderman films though I know). Cartoons have definitely taken a huge hit. Not what they used to be in the 90s when they were iconic, fun and educational all at once. Adult cartoons are doing well though. I don't mean porn stuff but rather shows like South Park, Rick & Morty, Bojack Horseman etc. We could certainly do with more shows like these. And japan isn't making anything close to that in terms of anime.
 
Oct 22, 8:12 AM
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FlowersInTheRain said:
EcchiGodMamster said:
so in other words...


anime gets woke?


no thank you, if i wanted western garbage, i'd watch/read what the west puts out

theres a good reason anime is growing and western comics/cartoons are dying





I'm not sure this is true. I just think Japan has more studios pushing out anime. Western Comics are being made into big blockbuster movies (annoying that we get a hundred batman and spiderman films though I know). Cartoons have definitely taken a huge hit. Not what they used to be in the 90s when they were iconic, fun and educational all at once. Adult cartoons are doing well though. I don't mean porn stuff but rather shows like South Park, Rick & Morty, Bojack Horseman etc. We could certainly do with more shows like these. And japan isn't making anything close to that in terms of anime.


the western comic industry IS dying...

all the topic "comic" sales in the west are manga

superhero movies are NOT getting people into comics, however, anime gets people in manga, and visa versa

and ofc, i would be adult cartoons that are popular in the west, theyre far less likely to push the PC trash that is being injected into everything
 
Oct 22, 8:29 AM
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Shoko664 said:
I don't really think something like that would happen in the future, yes there are some "Twitter normies" with Demon Slayer/MHA profile pics complaining about stuff like Lolis, Panty shots, sexulized teens and etc... but it backfires most of the time by a large amount of other anime fans.

But other then that I don't see why the west would like to change the medium as a whole.


Anime has to be a niche medium, shows like bakemonogateri or neon genesis evangelion wouldn't work for a normal audience. Anime has to be that medium for this people who depth, experimental and a little hyhpy stuff. Even your name has the chest, how will you explain your teacher or your parents that is normal Anime humour that the scene is harmless.
Anime has to be the medium for the who liked art.

I must say I don't like isekai(except for konosuba and Yōjo Senki i like the shows) for several reasons. It's the mainstream shit in every show.

We need more shows like fma, kaguya sama and Steins gate.
Animation is pretty look at difference between the fma Netflix movie and brotherhood. I didn't think that it will work for all people, for very much Anime is some children stuff, look at land of the lustrous, aot and fma that isn't some children stuff.
Modified by Gwenze, Oct 22, 8:34 AM
 
Oct 22, 8:39 AM
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EcchiGodMamster said:
FlowersInTheRain said:

I'm not sure this is true. I just think Japan has more studios pushing out anime. Western Comics are being made into big blockbuster movies (annoying that we get a hundred batman and spiderman films though I know). Cartoons have definitely taken a huge hit. Not what they used to be in the 90s when they were iconic, fun and educational all at once. Adult cartoons are doing well though. I don't mean porn stuff but rather shows like South Park, Rick & Morty, Bojack Horseman etc. We could certainly do with more shows like these. And japan isn't making anything close to that in terms of anime.


the western comic industry IS dying...

all the topic "comic" sales in the west are manga

superhero movies are NOT getting people into comics, however, anime gets people in manga, and visa versa

and ofc, i would be adult cartoons that are popular in the west, theyre far less likely to push the PC trash that is being injected into everything


Anime has to stay in the niche, it is perfect how it is in the moment(expect for the low incomes of the Animator) I love Anime, but i like to read mangas too. Both is so much different from every thing that you can find in West. I must ad that magazines like the weekly shounen jump are very important for the industry, look at some of their titles.
 
Oct 22, 8:54 AM

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EcchiGodMamster said:
FlowersInTheRain said:

I'm not sure this is true. I just think Japan has more studios pushing out anime. Western Comics are being made into big blockbuster movies (annoying that we get a hundred batman and spiderman films though I know). Cartoons have definitely taken a huge hit. Not what they used to be in the 90s when they were iconic, fun and educational all at once. Adult cartoons are doing well though. I don't mean porn stuff but rather shows like South Park, Rick & Morty, Bojack Horseman etc. We could certainly do with more shows like these. And japan isn't making anything close to that in terms of anime.


the western comic industry IS dying...

all the topic "comic" sales in the west are manga

superhero movies are NOT getting people into comics, however, anime gets people in manga, and visa versa

and ofc, i would be adult cartoons that are popular in the west, theyre far less likely to push the PC trash that is being injected into everything
What "PC trash"?

Just because some of us here don't watch Steven Universe for example (which seems to be a beloved target for complaining about "PC trash"), doesn't mean it isn't a success -- the same way that just because not all of us appreciate ecchi doesn't mean it's very much a significant aspect of the anime medium.

Meanwhile, how many other shows do what it does? At most a handful, and then beyond that people start grasping at straws by complaining that some main characters are girls or black people in some movies. So it's (A) not "trash" and (B) not "being injected into everything" either.



(also damnit "PC" is a personal computer that I use to play games among other things)
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Oct 22, 9:04 AM
 
Oct 22, 9:30 AM

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Pullman said:
Another retarded right-wing fearmonger thread about the evil west trying to come for anime and censor everything unlike the very anti-censorship japanese...

Is this really what the anime community is about these days? Retarded people pretending to be anime fans to spread their bullshit, anti-westen political rhetoric? Fuck all of you.
I disagree with the characterization of people as "retarded", because some of them may simply be well-meaning but misguided.

However, I agree with the overall sentiment that this is a pretty nonsense idea.

Anime is a commercial medium. To varying extents (sometimes to the chagrin of people who value creativity or artistic integrity, even) it caters to the potential tastes of the audience. And that audience is not monolithic -- that audience is made up of a huge number of people with a wide variety of tastes.

...and that's why we have a variety of anime.

Niches don't stop existing just because something becomes "mainstream". This thread's whole premise -- the premise of every time this complaint comes up -- is that the medium as a whole becoming "mainstream" means that niches will suddenly stop getting catered to...except, so long as the niche exists, someone will try to cater to it. After all, anime is a commercial medium.

The audiences that enjoy even this often-panned spate of isekai shows don't poof out of existence by something "going mainstream" as some sort of big summary banner headline regarding the medium -- heck, anime has become more popular in the west over the past several years just at the same time all these infamously pandery, infamously "wish-fullfillment"-y, infamously fanservicey things have been being made...and not only are they being made, but they're even getting picked up by manga/LN readers and anime watchers here in the west. (Or else my local all-audiences chain-franchise bookstore wouldn't have a giant shelf of this stuff, all selling at full price.)

So the trendlines -- the reality itself -- literally contradict OP's fearmongering argument.
 
Oct 22, 9:50 AM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
Pullman said:
Another retarded right-wing fearmonger thread about the evil west trying to come for anime and censor everything unlike the very anti-censorship japanese...

Is this really what the anime community is about these days? Retarded people pretending to be anime fans to spread their bullshit, anti-westen political rhetoric? Fuck all of you.
I disagree with the characterization of people as "retarded", because some of them may simply be well-meaning but misguided.

However, I agree with the overall sentiment that this is a pretty nonsense idea.

Anime is a commercial medium. To varying extents (sometimes to the chagrin of people who value creativity or artistic integrity, even) it caters to the potential tastes of the audience. And that audience is not monolithic -- that audience is made up of a huge number of people with a wide variety of tastes.

...and that's why we have a variety of anime.

Niches don't stop existing just because something becomes "mainstream". This thread's whole premise -- the premise of every time this complaint comes up -- is that the medium as a whole becoming "mainstream" means that niches will suddenly stop getting catered to...except, so long as the niche exists, someone will try to cater to it. After all, anime is a commercial medium.

The audiences that enjoy even this often-panned spate of isekai shows don't poof out of existence by something "going mainstream" as some sort of big summary banner headline regarding the medium -- heck, anime has become more popular in the west over the past several years just at the same time all these infamously pandery, infamously "wish-fullfillment"-y, infamously fanservicey things have been being made...and not only are they being made, but they're even getting picked up by manga/LN readers and anime watchers here in the west. (Or else my local all-audiences chain-franchise bookstore wouldn't have a giant shelf of this stuff, all selling at full price.)

So the trendlines -- the reality itself -- literally contradict OP's fearmongering argument.


I'm from the west to but i worried about which shows it will come popular in the west, because it can give you a wrong image of medium.
Here some popular first Anime

Death Note = It is ok no worries
Attack on titan = ok
Sao= not ok as first Anime, when the people come to thought Anime is shit or stay in the isekai genre and didn't come to shows like aot they wouldn't experience the depth Anime in their lives.

The first Anime is important my first title was cowboy Bebop.
What was your first title?
 
Oct 22, 9:59 AM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
Pullman said:
Another retarded right-wing fearmonger thread about the evil west trying to come for anime and censor everything unlike the very anti-censorship japanese...

Is this really what the anime community is about these days? Retarded people pretending to be anime fans to spread their bullshit, anti-westen political rhetoric? Fuck all of you.
I disagree with the characterization of people as "retarded", because some of them may simply be well-meaning but misguided.

However, I agree with the overall sentiment that this is a pretty nonsense idea.

Anime is a commercial medium. To varying extents (sometimes to the chagrin of people who value creativity or artistic integrity, even) it caters to the potential tastes of the audience. And that audience is not monolithic -- that audience is made up of a huge number of people with a wide variety of tastes.

...and that's why we have a variety of anime.

Niches don't stop existing just because something becomes "mainstream". This thread's whole premise -- the premise of every time this complaint comes up -- is that the medium as a whole becoming "mainstream" means that niches will suddenly stop getting catered to...except, so long as the niche exists, someone will try to cater to it. After all, anime is a commercial medium.

The audiences that enjoy even this often-panned spate of isekai shows don't poof out of existence by something "going mainstream" as some sort of big summary banner headline regarding the medium -- heck, anime has become more popular in the west over the past several years just at the same time all these infamously pandery, infamously "wish-fullfillment"-y, infamously fanservicey things have been being made...and not only are they being made, but they're even getting picked up by manga/LN readers and anime watchers here in the west. (Or else my local all-audiences chain-franchise bookstore wouldn't have a giant shelf of this stuff, all selling at full price.)

So the trendlines -- the reality itself -- literally contradict OP's fearmongering argument.


I think the most people worried about the fact that the anime industry end up like Hollywood, this is will be a very sad case. I like Anime, because it is different and it has to be different in the future. Lots of people feel similar i think.
 
Oct 22, 10:06 AM

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Gwenze said:
GlennMagusHarvey said:
I disagree with the characterization of people as "retarded", because some of them may simply be well-meaning but misguided.

However, I agree with the overall sentiment that this is a pretty nonsense idea.

Anime is a commercial medium. To varying extents (sometimes to the chagrin of people who value creativity or artistic integrity, even) it caters to the potential tastes of the audience. And that audience is not monolithic -- that audience is made up of a huge number of people with a wide variety of tastes.

...and that's why we have a variety of anime.

Niches don't stop existing just because something becomes "mainstream". This thread's whole premise -- the premise of every time this complaint comes up -- is that the medium as a whole becoming "mainstream" means that niches will suddenly stop getting catered to...except, so long as the niche exists, someone will try to cater to it. After all, anime is a commercial medium.

The audiences that enjoy even this often-panned spate of isekai shows don't poof out of existence by something "going mainstream" as some sort of big summary banner headline regarding the medium -- heck, anime has become more popular in the west over the past several years just at the same time all these infamously pandery, infamously "wish-fullfillment"-y, infamously fanservicey things have been being made...and not only are they being made, but they're even getting picked up by manga/LN readers and anime watchers here in the west. (Or else my local all-audiences chain-franchise bookstore wouldn't have a giant shelf of this stuff, all selling at full price.)

So the trendlines -- the reality itself -- literally contradict OP's fearmongering argument.


I'm from the west to but i worried about which shows it will come popular in the west, because it can give you a wrong image of medium.
Here some popular first Anime

Death Note = It is ok no worries
Attack on titan = ok
Sao= not ok as first Anime, when the people come to thought Anime is shit or stay in the isekai genre and didn't come to shows like aot they wouldn't experience the depth Anime in their lives.

The first Anime is important my first title was cowboy Bebop.
What was your first title?
Pick your choice of one of the following:

as a child:
* Eagle Riders (i.e. Gatchaman but heavily adapted, but I only watched one episode of this)
* Voltron [the old series, or technically, the episodes that Toei actually expressly made for WEP because this adaptation of GoLion had become so successful in the west]
* the first series of Pokémon (which is the first time I actually followed a continuous story in anime)
as an adult:
* Neon Genesis Evangelion (a recommendation from someone which I appreciated on my own terms)
* Kiddy Grade (the first time I picked up something on my own (kinda "by accident") and came to love it)
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Oct 22, 10:14 AM
 
Oct 22, 10:28 AM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
Gwenze said:


I'm from the west to but i worried about which shows it will come popular in the west, because it can give you a wrong image of medium.
Here some popular first Anime

Death Note = It is ok no worries
Attack on titan = ok
Sao= not ok as first Anime, when the people come to thought Anime is shit or stay in the isekai genre and didn't come to shows like aot they wouldn't experience the depth Anime in their lives.

The first Anime is important my first title was cowboy Bebop.
What was your first title?
Pick your choice of one of the following:

as a child:
* Eagle Riders (i.e. Gatchaman but heavily adapted, but I only watched one episode of this)
* Voltron [the old series, or technically, the episodes that Toei actually expressly made for WEP because this adaptation of GoLion had become so successful in the west]
* the first series of Pokémon (which is the first time I actually followed a continuous story in anime)
as an adult:
* Neon Genesis Evangelion (a recommendation from someone which I appreciated on my own terms)
* Kiddy Grade (the first time I picked up something on my own (kinda "by accident") and came to love it)


Did you think that shows have influence about your way that you watching Anime today?
 
Oct 22, 11:54 AM

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Are we in that complicated layer of woketaku irony where the OP complains about anime that he calls "crappy" not being made in the future?
 
Oct 22, 1:05 PM

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Gwenze said:
I think the most people worried about the fact that the anime industry end up like Hollywood, this is will be a very sad case. I like Anime, because it is different and it has to be different in the future. Lots of people feel similar i think.
A comparison to "Hollywood" actually doesn't make much sense because Hollywood is a specific subset of production companies in a much larger medium (movies), while anime is a medium.

Even if we overlook that improper comparison, one can note that "ending up like Hollywood" is quite a mixture of factors. One can say that it raises stuff to such a prominence that everyone will get to talk about and potentially criticize it or even hate on it, but on the other hand, that just comes with any sort of fame, and besides, movies enjoy the social status where no one questions or stereotypes someone just for their love of movies. And that's not to mention the giant budgets and production/acting talent that can go into these works...

Gwenze said:
GlennMagusHarvey said:
Pick your choice of one of the following:

as a child:
* Eagle Riders (i.e. Gatchaman but heavily adapted, but I only watched one episode of this)
* Voltron [the old series, or technically, the episodes that Toei actually expressly made for WEP because this adaptation of GoLion had become so successful in the west]
* the first series of Pokémon (which is the first time I actually followed a continuous story in anime)
as an adult:
* Neon Genesis Evangelion (a recommendation from someone which I appreciated on my own terms)
* Kiddy Grade (the first time I picked up something on my own (kinda "by accident") and came to love it)


Did you think that shows have influence about your way that you watching Anime today?
Probably. I agree with you that the shows one starts with can influence how one appreciates anime later. But I disagree with your notion that there's necessarily "wrong" or "right" ways to get into anime -- if you showed me Death Note or Attack on Titan and thought that would make me interested in anime, I wouldn't care for them. (And I have yet to watch any more Cowboy Bebop than just one movie and the famous theme song.)

It might be more interesting to look at what other shows I was exposed to that didn't get me interested in anime.

stuff I encountered as a child:
* Dragon Ball Z - didn't like the art, nor how it was basically all about just people fighting each other.
* Sailor Moon - I didn't dislike this but it just never really appealed to me much
* Yu-Gi-Oh - I don't think I really warmed up to the art here either.
* Digimon - I actually was interested in watching this. But I never knew when/where it came on. I still kinda want to check this out, actually.

stuff I encountered as a teenager:
* Naruto - I watched a bunch of episodes of this because a friend in the dorm watched them. They didn't really interest me.
* Bleach - That friend also watched some Bleach. Similarly, I didn't become interested.

At this point, I'd played a bunch of JRPGs (mostly on the SNES) and was very much aware that Japanese cartoons were a thing. I just wasn't interested in them, because they struck me as being frequently about over-the-top comedy or lots of action (again often with over-the-top elements), neither of which I'm into. I didn't like the exaggerated art of various Bleach characters. The various ninjutsu powers in Naruto were interesting but not enough to get me to stay, particularly when I'm not into high-stakes action for the sake of it. Other stuff like Azumanga Daioh and Excel Saga also weren't my thing either, since I was more interested in storylines to take seriously and I wasn't into cute for cuteness's sake.

If you showed me Death Note or Attack on Titan then, I wouldn't be interested in them. I'm still not interested in them now. They're not the kinds of stories I'm into. I would have seen Attack on Titan as just another heavy action-oriented show with tons of crazy action scenes. Death Note is a psychological thriller show, and while "psychological thriller" wasn't part of my idea of why I wasn't into anime, it also happens to be a genre that I'm generally not interested in, regardless of medium. (So I guess I would have learned that "anime has ridiculously dark shows". But it still wouldn't have been a good introduction to anime for me.)

On the other hand, I might have enjoyed the bright colors and generally brighter tone of Sword Art Online.

Finally...stuff I watched early on as an adult, after Evangelion, and in between other anime shows (i.e. basically the process of gradually discovering my tastes):
* Noir - I picked this up because Evangelion was kinda groundbreaking for me because I didn't know anime could have serious, thought-provoking stories. Noir does...but it's also a series that didn't really inspire me to get super interested in it. I actually picked up Kiddy Grade on a whim after watching a few eps of Noir...and ended up having a much better time with Kiddy Grade (over which I ended up crying buckets), while only much later did I finally get around to finishing Noir.
* Mai-HiME - after someone showed me Nanoha (which I cried buckets over as well), I trusted his recommendation of Mai-HiME...and it was underwhelming, with distracting rom-com elements and fanservice gags mixed into the more serious plot that I would have liked, and that serious plot stuff also included some crazy over-the-top antics or overly fast-paced storytelling with them, so yeah. (I still haven't finished this show.)

I did later watch the Cowboy Bebop movie (Knocking on Heaven's Door). It was good I guess? To the fandom, Cowboy Bebop is one of the best shows ever, but to me, my exposure to it has felt kinda forgettable.

On the other hand, the show that really made me look -- on my own -- for more anime to watch (and especially more anime like that show) -- was an unheralded random thing that I didn't even mean to watch seriously when I started it. I just thought Kiddy Grade looked nice while browsing YouTube and so I started watching. I wasn't even "looking to watch anime". (And to this day, I don't think it's a good idea to just "want to watch anime", as opposed to having something more specific in mind -- such as a specific show or even just a premise/idea.)

And basically no one I've ever met (aside from myself) has advocated that Kiddy Grade be recommended as a "gateway" series. To most of the anime fandom, it's just some 00s Gonzo show that people have largely moved on from except as a fond memory for some, plus a handful of very dedicated fans that probably number fewer than 10 at this point. But to me, it's very, very special.

Every person's journey into appreciating anime is going to be a unique one, and that's gonna have to do with their tastes, naturally. There really isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to do this.



Also, what does this have to do with anime becoming a "respectable medium" in the west (i.e. the thread topic)? (I don't mean to criticize the topic you've raised -- it's certainly very interesting! -- but I'm just wondering how it ties back in to the thread's topic.)
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Oct 22, 1:12 PM
 
Oct 22, 2:45 PM

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The more popular something becomes, the more commercialized it becomes, and the less original it becomes, the less quality it becomes.
Besides, people would just complain about the lolis. I cannot allow their complaints to erase them.

I can see you


 
Oct 22, 3:03 PM
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Posts: 123
GlennMagusHarvey said:
Gwenze said:
I think the most people worried about the fact that the anime industry end up like Hollywood, this is will be a very sad case. I like Anime, because it is different and it has to be different in the future. Lots of people feel similar i think.
A comparison to "Hollywood" actually doesn't make much sense because Hollywood is a specific subset of production companies in a much larger medium (movies), while anime is a medium.

Even if we overlook that improper comparison, one can note that "ending up like Hollywood" is quite a mixture of factors. One can say that it raises stuff to such a prominence that everyone will get to talk about and potentially criticize it or even hate on it, but on the other hand, that just comes with any sort of fame, and besides, movies enjoy the social status where no one questions or stereotypes someone just for their love of movies. And that's not to mention the giant budgets and production/acting talent that can go into these works...

Gwenze said:


Did you think that shows have influence about your way that you watching Anime today?
Probably. I agree with you that the shows one starts with can influence how one appreciates anime later. But I disagree with your notion that there's necessarily "wrong" or "right" ways to get into anime -- if you showed me Death Note or Attack on Titan and thought that would make me interested in anime, I wouldn't care for them. (And I have yet to watch any more Cowboy Bebop than just one movie and the famous theme song.)

It might be more interesting to look at what other shows I was exposed to that didn't get me interested in anime.

stuff I encountered as a child:
* Dragon Ball Z - didn't like the art, nor how it was basically all about just people fighting each other.
* Sailor Moon - I didn't dislike this but it just never really appealed to me much
* Yu-Gi-Oh - I don't think I really warmed up to the art here either.
* Digimon - I actually was interested in watching this. But I never knew when/where it came on. I still kinda want to check this out, actually.

stuff I encountered as a teenager:
* Naruto - I watched a bunch of episodes of this because a friend in the dorm watched them. They didn't really interest me.
* Bleach - That friend also watched some Bleach. Similarly, I didn't become interested.

At this point, I'd played a bunch of JRPGs (mostly on the SNES) and was very much aware that Japanese cartoons were a thing. I just wasn't interested in them, because they struck me as being frequently about over-the-top comedy or lots of action (again often with over-the-top elements), neither of which I'm into. I didn't like the exaggerated art of various Bleach characters. The various ninjutsu powers in Naruto were interesting but not enough to get me to stay, particularly when I'm not into high-stakes action for the sake of it. Other stuff like Azumanga Daioh and Excel Saga also weren't my thing either, since I was more interested in storylines to take seriously and I wasn't into cute for cuteness's sake.

If you showed me Death Note or Attack on Titan then, I wouldn't be interested in them. I'm still not interested in them now. They're not the kinds of stories I'm into. I would have seen Attack on Titan as just another heavy action-oriented show with tons of crazy action scenes. Death Note is a psychological thriller show, and while "psychological thriller" wasn't part of my idea of why I wasn't into anime, it also happens to be a genre that I'm generally not interested in, regardless of medium. (So I guess I would have learned that "anime has ridiculously dark shows". But it still wouldn't have been a good introduction to anime for me.)

On the other hand, I might have enjoyed the bright colors and generally brighter tone of Sword Art Online.

Finally...stuff I watched early on as an adult, after Evangelion, and in between other anime shows (i.e. basically the process of gradually discovering my tastes):
* Noir - I picked this up because Evangelion was kinda groundbreaking for me because I didn't know anime could have serious, thought-provoking stories. Noir does...but it's also a series that didn't really inspire me to get super interested in it. I actually picked up Kiddy Grade on a whim after watching a few eps of Noir...and ended up having a much better time with Kiddy Grade (over which I ended up crying buckets), while only much later did I finally get around to finishing Noir.
* Mai-HiME - after someone showed me Nanoha (which I cried buckets over as well), I trusted his recommendation of Mai-HiME...and it was underwhelming, with distracting rom-com elements and fanservice gags mixed into the more serious plot that I would have liked, and that serious plot stuff also included some crazy over-the-top antics or overly fast-paced storytelling with them, so yeah. (I still haven't finished this show.)

I did later watch the Cowboy Bebop movie (Knocking on Heaven's Door). It was good I guess? To the fandom, Cowboy Bebop is one of the best shows ever, but to me, my exposure to it has felt kinda forgettable.

On the other hand, the show that really made me look -- on my own -- for more anime to watch (and especially more anime like that show) -- was an unheralded random thing that I didn't even mean to watch seriously when I started it. I just thought Kiddy Grade looked nice while browsing YouTube and so I started watching. I wasn't even "looking to watch anime". (And to this day, I don't think it's a good idea to just "want to watch anime", as opposed to having something more specific in mind -- such as a specific show or even just a premise/idea.)

And basically no one I've ever met (aside from myself) has advocated that Kiddy Grade be recommended as a "gateway" series. To most of the anime fandom, it's just some 00s Gonzo show that people have largely moved on from except as a fond memory for some, plus a handful of very dedicated fans that probably number fewer than 10 at this point. But to me, it's very, very special.

Every person's journey into appreciating anime is going to be a unique one, and that's gonna have to do with their tastes, naturally. There really isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to do this.



Also, what does this have to do with anime becoming a "respectable medium" in the west (i.e. the thread topic)? (I don't mean to criticize the topic you've raised -- it's certainly very interesting! -- but I'm just wondering how it ties back in to the thread's topic.)


yes, it´s right that it gives lot´s of ways of entrance. wrong or right is to harsh, when i thought about something like this i think ony about better and not so good. but even an hentai can be a good start title. my problem is that i exierence shows often much deeper not only anime, you can´t discribe this to people they never feel feelings like this. i talk about connect with a character like deku...

in my case your name and angels beats are import title for me.

the shows i like are mostly a little niche or very risky( that fits for the most slice of life titles that i like) .

sry, i thought i mus tad my expierence with game of thrones, i was sombody who loves the complete lore i read the books, even the history and site story books.
yes the series was good too, until season 8. they broke the complte characters only for greater show effects and a fast ending. i didn´t watched the last to 2. episodes yet , something was happen that happens to a lage amount of franchises(big money).

hollywood is in a very bad way.
Modified by Gwenze, Oct 23, 1:02 AM
 
Oct 22, 3:26 PM

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Unless Viz releases an unedited version of Dragon Ball, the most iconic anime and manga title, I tend to disagree
 
Oct 22, 3:34 PM
fanservice<3

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Gwenze said:
EcchiGodMamster said:


the western comic industry IS dying...

all the topic "comic" sales in the west are manga

superhero movies are NOT getting people into comics, however, anime gets people in manga, and visa versa

and ofc, i would be adult cartoons that are popular in the west, theyre far less likely to push the PC trash that is being injected into everything


Anime has to stay in the niche, it is perfect how it is in the moment(expect for the low incomes of the Animator) I love Anime, but i like to read mangas too. Both is so much different from every thing that you can find in West. I must ad that magazines like the weekly shounen jump are very important for the industry, look at some of their titles.


i agree, it should forever stay in the nich'e as anything that goes mainstream eventually loses what made it what it is

but actually anime isn't "perfect", it has to a degree been affected by the online outrage mob and censorship has increased, even if nowhere near to a western degree


GlennMagusHarvey said:
EcchiGodMamster said:


the western comic industry IS dying...

all the topic "comic" sales in the west are manga

superhero movies are NOT getting people into comics, however, anime gets people in manga, and visa versa

and ofc, i would be adult cartoons that are popular in the west, theyre far less likely to push the PC trash that is being injected into everything
What "PC trash"?

Just because some of us here don't watch Steven Universe for example (which seems to be a beloved target for complaining about "PC trash"), doesn't mean it isn't a success -- the same way that just because not all of us appreciate ecchi doesn't mean it's very much a significant aspect of the anime medium.

Meanwhile, how many other shows do what it does? At most a handful, and then beyond that people start grasping at straws by complaining that some main characters are girls or black people in some movies. So it's (A) not "trash" and (B) not "being injected into everything" either.



(also damnit "PC" is a personal computer that I use to play games among other things)


what PC trash? what rock have you been under this whole time?

awe man, i wish i could go the fuck off right now, but im on break and won't have time to write a book

but just to name a few things, no one outside cringey websites like twitter asked for the changes were getting in the west, like changing ESTABLISHED characters in order to please a MICROFUCKINGSCOPIC section of the internet
 
Oct 22, 3:47 PM
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that's the worst Idea .
we don't want anime to be generic as the western trash shows
we don't want anime to be filled with SJW agenda to please the western audience
anime is good because it's different than western shit
 
Oct 22, 3:48 PM

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I think that the anime film industry has done a lot to already push the medium into a more mainstream, respected framework, with works like Studio Ghibli films and others like Kimi No Now Wa, 5 Centimeters Per Second, Koe no Katachi & Weathering With You.

Certainly feels that way to me, more so than say 20 years ago, when I remember discussing anime films like Akira and Fist Of The North Star, or series like DBZ with people. Anime defo seems more mainstream than it did in those days (pre 2000), but that's just my opinion.
 
Oct 22, 3:57 PM

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Issmail22Lawfy said:
that's the worst Idea .
we don't want anime to be generic as the western trash shows
we don't want anime to be filled with SJW agenda to please the western audience
anime is good because it's different than western shit


I fully agree. American cartoons and live-action nowadays REALLY push the SJW agenda-it's so f**king annoying to see it in literally everything that's not for adults only.

My friend keeps trying to push Steven Universe on me and I refuse. lol



 
Oct 22, 4:10 PM

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I went to school for drawing, started in animation and realized it wasn't for me i preferred illustrating lol. Anyways in animation class on all the handout sheets it says in bold text DO NOT DRAW ANIME/MANGA. In fact, a lot of the art department are very against students drawing anime, for some reason they don't consider it art so I cant see it ever becoming a respectable medium. It's odd though because we study drawing from all over the world and draw in their styles but anime is blacklisted for god knows what reason.

As for me drawing anime/manga is both hobby/work and i do enjoy it, but I also like doing my work with portraits of people and comics/cartoons.

GFX by: Vivacie on DA
 
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