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Are Anime Elitist really such a big threat?

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#1
Oct 18, 11:14 PM
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Like there are 20 videos + on YouTube made by butthurt Anitubers shitting on these guys ... and I'm like thinking to myself 'tell me who hurt you bby, everything will be ok'.

But seriously why are they such a big deal? They are like 10 extremely vocal people or so in a pot of 100 0000+ anime fans. Talk about fighting a lost battle. Discuss!
 
#2
Oct 19, 12:10 AM

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It's another case of anitubers being late to the party but wanting something they think will generate clicks

I suggest we stop calling them anitubers and refer to them by the more appropriate phrase "Plague of Locusts pretending to be human beings, or Plpbhb for a briefer and easier way of saying it

real answer is no btw, often times it's something that's reliant on exaggeration and very superficial ways of trying to assert guilt by association, and if we remove these types of accusations then it's not prominent enough to warrant the level of outrage and attention it receives
Modified by Manaban, Oct 19, 12:14 AM
 
#3
Oct 19, 12:16 AM

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because anime fans like everything they complain about
complain about a problem that is no longer a problem

now, elitist obviously did exist...
like 10 yrs ago

now anitubers also need a problem for people to stand against cause otherwise, people will realise anitubers liek gigguk, mb and others are full of shit
so what do you do
recreate an enemy of old and fearmonger them as the greatest enemy you have ever faced

deflect all the communities hatred to them




real reason: you just explained it lol
its like 100(and maybe like 20-30 that are vocal) in the current community

and to them, the idea of it is replusive so even if its a small minority
you gotta make videos and videos of it
(no people who shite on seasonal rightfully are not actual elitist, they're just shitheads, 2 different things)
Stardust Revolution sounds like the name of a goddamn 90s boy band, or the title of BTS's latest album
 
#4
Oct 19, 12:25 AM
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Threat? No. Annoying? Yes.

I hesitate to call this fearmongering (most cases don't appear so at least), so it seems it's pretty much just the anitubers using their opinions on the matter for content. Even when they say things like elitists are ruining anime I doubt they actually mean it, content creators have learned about the fact that they have to exaggerate their claims to get clicks and views. People aren't going to click on a video that seems to just be someone voicing their distaste for elitism, but they'll probably be more compelled if they're lead to believe it's actually some huge epidemic plaguing the community.
 
#5
Oct 19, 12:27 AM

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As if people would be easily swayed by some obnoxious handful of miscreants, they just want to talk shit about them to gain popularity, because it's such a popular topic, and would easily gain them click bait material.

I'd say anitubers are a bigger threat if anything, since they have a bigger platform, and really, can be a dick too.
 
#6
Oct 19, 12:35 AM
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You all bring good insight on this phenomenon. So I guess the real threat are the messengers who fish for views...
 
#7
Oct 19, 12:36 AM

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No they're not. First up, people dont really get what the fuck Elitist even means. For most people, anyone who criticizes anime with at least decent reasoning is an elitist, which is simply bullshit. I dunno how many people Ive seen call me an elitist cause I said that, for example, an anime had bad characters, with reasoning. But nope, apparently, anime are perfect and cannot be criticized. But other than that, yes, people who shit on anime for no fucking reason at all are annoying. Also people who think that taste can be good or bad. Taste is just taste. Dunno if those two categories would count as elitists. I personally think it refers more to people who analyze anime REALLY deeply, have extremely high standards and are also dicks to everyone who they consider a normie
Modified by SunBro26, Oct 19, 12:44 AM
 
#8
Oct 19, 12:37 AM

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More annoying tbh.

But it also hypocritical that Youtubers like the Anime-Man shit on Elitist while he kinda acts like one sometimes.
 
#9
Oct 19, 12:40 AM

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what did anime elitist even do or contribute to anime industry besides thinking they have greater taste? absolutely nothing
 
Oct 19, 12:45 AM

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"Elitists" exist in every medium, but only anime fans constantly bitch and moan about them, because the fandom is filled with children who get easily butthurt when someone criticizes their favorite anime or makes fun of their taste.
 
Oct 19, 12:49 AM
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SunBro26 said:
No they're not. First up, people dont really get what the fuck Elitist even means. For most people, anyone who criticizes anime with at least decent reasoning is an elitist, which is simply bullshit. I dunno how many people Ive seen call me an elitist cause I said that, for example, an anime had bad characters, with reasoning. But nope, apparently, anime are perfect and cannot be criticized.

Idk for others but for me an elitist is someone who thinks himself a higher lifeform and looks down on others based on taste. They are also obnoxious trolls looking only to portray themselves as smarter for enjoying exquisitely obscure retro anime while with all effort shitting on new anime, or at least the very popular ones. In both ways ruining and giving a bad name to actual retro lovers and modern watchers alike with their cancerous behavior. They also seems like drones to me, never liking more than the select established big brain shows, or going out of their comfort zone to experience something different and controversial from fear to not come off as plebs to their validation crowd.

Also the whole criticism thing has a time and a place. Ofc I don't know your circumstances when these event happened to you, but if you bring criticism not where it is wanted or out of the blue people are bond to mistake and react strongly against. I must admit many in the anime community are still young adults and can mistake actual criticism for an attack against them or hate. This must be clarified bu the critic himself and not spiked for laughs. Genuine elitist take pleasure perfectly understanding what they are doing in making others feel bad for what they enjoy. At least that is what I see it...
 
Oct 19, 12:58 AM

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Well yes, but actually no.

--------
 
Oct 19, 12:59 AM

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AkaneManiac said:
SunBro26 said:
No they're not. First up, people dont really get what the fuck Elitist even means. For most people, anyone who criticizes anime with at least decent reasoning is an elitist, which is simply bullshit. I dunno how many people Ive seen call me an elitist cause I said that, for example, an anime had bad characters, with reasoning. But nope, apparently, anime are perfect and cannot be criticized.

Idk for others but for me an elitist is someone who thinks himself a higher lifeform and looks down on others based on taste. They are also obnoxious trolls looking only to portray themselves as smarter for enjoying exquisitely obscure retro anime while with all effort shitting on new anime, or at least the very popular ones. In both ways ruining and giving a bad name to actual retro lovers and modern watchers alike with their cancerous behavior. They also seems like drones to me, never liking more than the select established big brain shows, or going out of their comfort zone to experience something different and controversial from fear to not come off as plebs to their validation crowd.

Also the whole criticism thing has a time and a place. Ofc I don't know your circumstances when these event happened to you, but if you bring criticism not where it is wanted or out of the blue people are bond to mistake and react strongly against. I must admit many in the anime community are still young adults and can mistake actual criticism for an attack against them or hate. This must be clarified bu the critic himself and not spiked for laughs. Genuine elitist take pleasure perfectly understanding what they are doing in making others feel bad for what they enjoy. At least that is what I see it...
Well yeah, Id say there are multiple types to elitists, with the common trait being that they are absolute dicks to everyone they come across, and also believe in the whole good taste, bad taste thing, with their own taste being the best one of course. One type would be the classic 'retrofags' (lol) who think that post-19XX or 20XX anime just cant be good and are inherently bad (Although they are countered by the people who refuse to watch anime older than a certain year. Both sides are retards imo). Another type Ive seen is people who analyze anime and break it apart at the quantum level. Like, they'd pause anime frame by frame to see everything that's happening. Of course, not all people in this category would be Elitists. Id say only those ones count who dig so deep and find flaws ONLY for the sake of shitting on the anime.

And as for the example I mentioned, thats not something Ive seen rarely or very few times. Its pretty much everywhere I go. Ive spent a good 4-ish years snooping around anime related forums and servers, and one thing I commonly see is that any person with logical criticism gets the label. Now of course, the definition of the word itself would very from person to person, but I still dont think the bar should be set THAT low.

Edit: Overall, I still dont think of them as a threat of even that annoying, cause true elitists are reaaallllyyyy rare to come by.
 
Oct 19, 1:06 AM

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Them anime youtubers wanna make views so they invented this crap. Even if "elitists" are shiting about anime, it's not their problem to defend said anime. Remember, if they put on an ad, they are evil. At least some "elitists" made fantranslations back in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. These youtubers make vids like: I love this anime because it's popular, so I'm gonna talk about it in a way so that I won't say anything of importance.
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Oct 19, 1:25 AM

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OnionKnightRises said:
Threat? No. Annoying? Yes.
Basically this.

They're just people with obnoxious (or obnoxiously-presented) opinions on the internet. That's all.
 
Oct 19, 1:34 AM

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For me they are noting more than minor annoyance, I just ignore them and move on.


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Oct 19, 1:38 AM

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not really but you shit on them, means you becoming one of them. simple as that



“Refined and Bad taste cannot be discerned by profile's appearances; Perhaps in the past you misjudge Mine, perhaps today you're also misjudge mIne. However my taste remained, i have never cared about others opinons and tastes.”
 
Oct 19, 1:43 AM
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well elites are only few in numbers obviously since only few people can reach the top lol like those global elites or the 1% in real life that have a lot of political and social power so maybe some of this elitists are like that

but the only elitist i can think of right now on youtube is ThatAnimeSnob and he has few subscribers only so he is harmless

 
Oct 19, 1:54 AM
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Manaban said:

I suggest we stop calling them anitubers and refer to them by the more appropriate phrase "Plague of Locusts pretending to be human beings, or Plpbhb for a briefer and easier way of saying it


I love this. Plpbhb for sure.

I don't think there is anything wrong with people who consider themselves elites. It's not my style, but I get it. They have spent countless hours developing and expanding a knowledge base that ultimately only has one application: critiquing the source material. It shouldn't be baffling to us that people then want to use that knowledge they've built up. If this were literature or classic film they would have been able to get a college degree and used that knowledge in a formal setting to train new elites in the genre. Absent that kind of system they are left with one avenue.

Like all groups, there are elites I like and elites I don't. I like elites who are eager to share their knowledge to help others better understand the genre that they have a high degree of mastery over, without brow-beating them with it. I don't care for them when they try to make other people feel stupid or like they have bad taste, but that is just my preference. Certainly we've seen people engage with each other in that latter mode and enjoy the battle. Why should I judge them for doing what they like? I get to choose to walk away from this battle. No one is forcing me to be part of it.

I worry that this kind of talk (hating elites) risks marginalizing part of our community. One of the things that I loved about anime fans when I started watching is that we made room for everyone. It didn't matter who you were or how marginalized you were in normie society. You could have a home here; a safe space. I just hope that in our mad rush to be more likable we don't forget to be that safe place for people who aren't always so traditionally likable.

Alright, I'm done. I will climb off my soap box. Sorry for writing a book. :D
 
Oct 19, 2:14 AM

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No, people like this are just annoying af, because most of them are these "/iamsosmartpeople" and don't care for listening to other people's reasons, why they like something.
 
Oct 19, 4:30 AM

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Elitism has never been a threat, but is sure irksome.

AkaneManiac said:
Like there are 20 videos + on YouTube made by butthurt Anitubers shitting on these guys ... and I'm like thinking to myself 'tell me who hurt you bby, everything will be ok'.

But seriously why are they such a big deal? They are like 10 extremely vocal people or so in a pot of 100 0000+ anime fans. Talk about fighting a lost battle. Discuss!

Firstly, why would u watch anitubers? They are superficial pseudo-intellectuals who find censuring to be a pleasure. Many even are demagogues of this platform.

Secondly, I don't seem to really discern what you meant by "threat". Do you mean like are they threat to the ambience of this community? If so, then they have always existed, so you can't really claim that they will cause some severe phenomena. On top of that, there are way worse individuals with deteriorated ideologies in this medium for elitism to be called a threat.
. . .
 
Oct 19, 4:38 AM
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Preachee said:
Elitism has never been a threat, but is sure irksome.

AkaneManiac said:
Like there are 20 videos + on YouTube made by butthurt Anitubers shitting on these guys ... and I'm like thinking to myself 'tell me who hurt you bby, everything will be ok'.

But seriously why are they such a big deal? They are like 10 extremely vocal people or so in a pot of 100 0000+ anime fans. Talk about fighting a lost battle. Discuss!

Firstly, why would u watch anitubers? They are superficial pseudo-intellectuals who find censuring to be a pleasure. Many even are demagogues of this platform.

Secondly, I don't seem to really discern what you meant by "threat". Do you mean like are they threat to the ambience of this community? If so, then they have always existed, so you can't really claim that they will cause some severe phenomena. On top of that, there are way worse individuals with deteriorated ideologies in this medium for elitism to be called a threat.

I watch the popular ones for the lol's and their cringe. Otherwise I prefer following specific anime series channels which analyze my favorite anime and so.

The general consensus is that elitist put off/scare away other people from becoming anime fans and make the environment toxic or smt... although this makes me wonder what about hardcore delusional fanboys who go on sending death threats whenever their fave ship doesn't become canon or smt.
 
Oct 19, 5:06 AM

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AkaneManiac said:
Preachee said:
Elitism has never been a threat, but is sure irksome.


Firstly, why would u watch anitubers? They are superficial pseudo-intellectuals who find censuring to be a pleasure. Many even are demagogues of this platform.

Secondly, I don't seem to really discern what you meant by "threat". Do you mean like are they threat to the ambience of this community? If so, then they have always existed, so you can't really claim that they will cause some severe phenomena. On top of that, there are way worse individuals with deteriorated ideologies in this medium for elitism to be called a threat.

I watch the popular ones for the lol's and their cringe. Otherwise I prefer following specific anime series channels which analyze my favorite anime and so.

The general consensus is that elitist put off/scare away other people from becoming anime fans and make the environment toxic or smt... although this makes me wonder what about hardcore delusional fanboys who go on sending death threats whenever their fave ship doesn't become canon or smt.

Yea exactly, there are categories for the worse when you compare with elitists. But about your concern, I don't think that elitists could gain the ability to scare off new fans, like what could they possibly do? At most I think is some seemingly clever scorning with expressions full of contempt, but even such would probably make only a few upset. And the thing is the inevitable toxicity is merely annoying, but not frightening. If you ask me, death threats are some literal threats to be concerned.
. . .
 
Oct 19, 8:18 AM

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Yes, of course. They murderer people with a bad taste.
Ah, wait. They don't... so not.


 
Oct 19, 8:21 AM

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Are Anime Elitists really such a big joke*?

Yes, they are.


 
Oct 19, 8:24 AM

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Naw, I think it's pretty sad if they genuinely think they're superior in any way because of their taste in anime though. That's like me thinking I'm better than others just because I stay off facebook and twitter.
 
Oct 19, 8:24 AM

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They aren't a danger because it's not like they're going to destroy the industry as we know it, but they're really irritating and make our community look toxic and immature to outsiders which can cause some people to lump us all with them just for enjoying the same medium.
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Oct 19, 12:45 PM
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The presence of elitists is as relevant as the presence of people who have bad taste, irrelevant. They are not a danger because if anyone just disagrees with them usually they just ignore them. What partly is a good reaction but only if they are just shitting on everything instead of trying to bring valid points to the discusion.

Being realist, what could be a threat for a community like this? I can't think of any example.
 
Oct 19, 12:58 PM

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I have a few points:

-Anitubers like Mother´s Basement tend to be worst than elitists, because they do whatever for clicks. So people on the internet making a big deal are just going for the easy click - easy money kind of videos.

-Elitists are most likely relevant only to newbies on the media that get offended by people that trash on shows that they like. Usually the only people complaining about elitism are Black Clover, Fairy Tail, Dragon Ball and so-on fans.

-And finally, people get triggered by elitism because "your opinion is not the same as mine, so you can´t make yours more relevant than mine and If I like something makes it good".

People care too much about others opinion, and what´s worse is that those people just can´t imagine a world where people have taste. The fact that you like shit doesn´t mean the show is not shit, just deal with it and you will be fine.
 
Oct 19, 12:58 PM

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And how is a weeaboo, the pasty-faced, vitamin D deficient or the jobless and penniless stubborn jackass living in his momma's basement a threat to society?

Just leave these "elitists" be and let them grow old, bald, fat or weak then rot in the basement while the rest of the world have fun outside in the sun as well as taking cool trips and having a good time in amusement parks.

My new motto now is go outside or die. Oh! and vitamin D deficiency will take a toll on your life expectancy. Now excuse me while I go walk like a mack daddy out in the sun with my shades on.
Modified by Kurt_Irving, Oct 19, 1:02 PM
 
Oct 19, 5:45 PM

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Like it was already referred by other users most "anituber" populated this fearsome idea that elitists are this boogeyman's out of the need for clicks. Is a overdone topic but it will always gather viwership because it promotes group mentality, since everyone can commonly agree that elitism (in this case discrimination base on taste and having a sense of superiority) is a practice worth criticizing so most of those anitubers take advantage of that.
This anitubers will not provide a new perspective on the topic or any topic for that matter, rather what you will see is constatly self-whoring to popular opinions and appeasement of masses because they need a broad audience to make money.



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Oct 19, 6:22 PM
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Tbh I don't even understand what anyone's talking about anymore.

> Elitist?

Are we talking about some facade of superiority presented through specific shows an individual likes, or people who go out of their way to defend why those specific shows are "greater" than anything else, thus undermining the opinions of others with "inferior" taste? I've been pretty active in the MAL community over this past year, and not once have I had someone come and deliberately bash my taste, nor have I ever gone out of my way to talk shit about others. However, if you were to base the concept of "elitism" solely on particular shows a person likes without understanding their stance or even giving them the benefit of the doubt as an individual, then I guess I'm just like any other elitist who likes stuff like Aria, Yuasa and Satoshi Kon's works. I consider myself to be fairly critical, but that's only for my own sake at the end of the day. If someone likes shit I utterly despise and vice versa, awesome. I'm glad we have different opinions, cause it'd be pretty fucking boring if everyone liked the same stuff.

The bottom line is that this whole "elitism" thing is a dead horse that has been beaten so far into the ground that it's hardly even recognizable anymore. If anyone out there is trying to flex on you or say your taste is shit, just ignore them... they aren't worth your time. As for these Anitubers, fuck them too. They're just throwing around buzzwords and stirring up entirely unnecessary drama in a community that already partakes in a niche enough hobby. These Anitubers are basically blowing very minor issues way out of proportion and creating problems that never even existed to begin with.
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Oct 19, 6:32 PM

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Gatekeepers are the problem. You're keeping people from trying something out and deciding for themselves whether or not they like a work, all because you want to maintain your little echochamber that praises a work wholeheartedly. You can't handle people criticizing your favorite show/movie/book/game/whatever, so you try to force them to like it by making them replicate the way you consumed the work "you have to do it this way in this order to understand it/get the most enjoyment!"). You'd rather drive people away than take the chance.
 
Oct 19, 6:41 PM
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[quote=AkaneManiac message=58535753]Like there are 20 videos + on YouTube made by butthurt Anitubers shitting on these guys ... and I'm like thinking to myself 'tell me who hurt you bby, everything will be ok'. /quote]
That's crazy. I honestly find the AniTubers to be far more annoying.
Elitist is kind of a bs term considering ppl label anyone with different anime tastes an elitist.
I wouldn't say it's "elitism" for the most part. With that said, I do cringe at some profiles of reviewers who will shit on all the new anime and give 10s to horrendous, older, or unpopular anime. But that's just a difference in opinion. I haven't labeled anyone as elitist. probably because they are n o t a threat
 
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Hi Legends of Galactic Heroes fans 🐸
Annoying fan service
 
Oct 19, 7:20 PM

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Valyrian1124 said:
Gatekeepers are the problem. You're keeping people from trying something out and deciding for themselves whether or not they like a work, all because you want to maintain your little echochamber that praises a work wholeheartedly. You can't handle people criticizing your favorite show/movie/book/game/whatever, so you try to force them to like it by making them replicate the way you consumed the work "you have to do it this way in this order to understand it/get the most enjoyment!"). You'd rather drive people away than take the chance.


I agree with you 100%

Plus in their case they are gonna get views regardless

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Oct 19, 7:23 PM

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No they're not. I think the only people who worry about people like elitists fear their opinions being challenged, and care too much about other peoples' opinions. I find it weird especially for people on MAL to be worried about elitists, when, let's be real here, most people on MAL, despite participating in "discussion" threads, hardly "discuss" with people, therefore it's safe to assume they rarely read other peoples' posts.
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Oct 19, 7:32 PM

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Most people you see get called "elitists" aren't even elitist. At their worst, some of them can come off as closet snobs but even still, ironically a lot of those who cry "elitist" tend to exhibit the very same traits they apply onto the "elitist" stereotype except without the starter pack favorites such as Evangelion, Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyze, Haibane Renmei, and LOGH. The people doing so aren't the anitubers or anime reviewers, but your average fan in most cases, and even then, only the fanboys and fangirls who white knight their titles to death, which is an issue with...any fanbase ever. Sure, it does seem like your average anime fan or reviewer on this site seems a bit more critical than in the days of yore, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing (even if a lot of the views people pick up from anitubers tend to be more surface-level criticisms used to dismantle SAO instead of deeper and more complex criticisms that would damage say, Re:Zero, as they require more critical thinking and further understanding about storytelling and the medium in which the story is being told than what the average fan tends to have). There's a reason I call this "the elitist myth", cuz that kind of boogeyman barely exists in the form they describe it while the people who force it to exist often embody every trait but the one arbitrary, outdated qualifier they use as their primary determiner. Resentful fans putting others down for disliking the shows they like or liking shows they dislike are common, tho, and that's nowhere near enough to ruin everything for everyone (outside of people condemning MAL forums).

So no.
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Oct 19, 7:47 PM
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i just remember that saying a moment ago so if you believe there is truth to that saying then it might apply here
 
Oct 19, 7:59 PM

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BasicallyAnybody said:
The presence of elitists is as relevant as the presence of people who have bad taste, irrelevant. They are not a danger because if anyone just disagrees with them usually they just ignore them. What partly is a good reaction but only if they are just shitting on everything instead of trying to bring valid points to the discusion.

Being realist, what could be a threat for a community like this? I can't think of any example.

That's a good question, and I think it comes down to what counts as a theat. There are certainly attitudes make the community a less enjoyable place to be. They aren't threatening the existence of the community, though... maybe in a way they are threatening the community as it is now, by bringing unwanted change.

I wasn't around at the time, but I hear about how the community was in the 2000s and I wish I was a fan then. One could argue that the influx of fans with tastes that changed the landscape of anime, in a way, 'destroyed' the community. The moe boom didn't die down for no reason, it's tied to directly to changing tastes and the tastes of new fans.

I think that's why we get so many "elitists" that focus on taste. Because of course the community is going to be more enjoyable if there are more with a similar taste. And also people recognize that the taste of the fans has an effect on what anime gets made.

I actively participated in the recent #BringBackGatekeeping hastag on Twitter because we were trying to send a message to the people who call anime sexist for the way it celebrates youthful feminine beauty and call anime fans pedos for liking anime girls under 18... those people are a massive threat to both the community and anime as a whole. And if I'm elitist for not wanting them in the social space built around my hobby, then so be it.

That leads me to my other point, which is not going to be popular, that I think some kinds of elitism are good. And not just the gatekeeping kind to keep out toxic elements that want to change anime that I mention above. How to put this... if there was no one who genuinely thought x, y, and z anime were better than all other anime, and they beleived it as an objecive fact, then the only anime to get elevated and receive praise would be popular anime. I don't necessarily believe in objective quality, but I think it's useful concept. I like that there are some anime which are held up in a way which is reverent of them and treats them as "high art". That kind of thing is always going to carry a certain amount of elitism because it carries the notion that there is such a thing as good and bad taste.

It's like how the Oscars or any other award ceremony are fundamentally elitist, but they're still exciting if one is big in to movies. I always enjoy anime awards, be it the r/anime awards or Crunchyroll or just some rando YouTube channel. There's something fun about arguing over what is the best anime as though it's an objective thing, even if it isn't. It only becomes toxic when people are overly harsh in putting down other anime. But we can be better than that. We can raise up certain anime without putting down others... right? We can do that? Ah. Well, nevermind then lol.
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Oct 19, 8:23 PM
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I don't see them as a threat at all. They're just pretentious individuals who are deluded into believing that being a minority in this community can place your personal tastes & opinions above others. clout chasers, at best.
 
Oct 19, 8:23 PM
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YossaRedMage said:
BasicallyAnybody said:
The presence of elitists is as relevant as the presence of people who have bad taste, irrelevant. They are not a danger because if anyone just disagrees with them usually they just ignore them. What partly is a good reaction but only if they are just shitting on everything instead of trying to bring valid points to the discusion.

Being realist, what could be a threat for a community like this? I can't think of any example.

That's a good question, and I think it comes down to what counts as a theat. There are certainly attitudes make the community a less enjoyable place to be. They aren't threatening the existence of the community, though... maybe in a way they are threatening the community as it is now, by bringing unwanted change.

I wasn't around at the time, but I hear about how the community was in the 2000s and I wish I was a fan then. One could argue that the influx of fans with tastes that changed the landscape of anime, in a way, 'destroyed' the community. The moe boom didn't die down for no reason, it's tied to directly to changing tastes and the tastes of new fans.

I think that's why we get so many "elitists" that focus on taste. Because of course the community is going to be more enjoyable if there are more with a similar taste. And also people recognize that the taste of the fans has an effect on what anime gets made.

I actively participated in the recent #BringBackGatekeeping hastag on Twitter because we were trying to send a message to the people who call anime sexist for the way it celebrates youthful feminine beauty and call anime fans pedos for liking anime girls under 18... those people are a massive threat to both the community and anime as a whole. And if I'm elitist for not wanting them in the social space built around my hobby, then so be it.

That leads me to my other point, which is not going to be popular, that I think some kinds of elitism are good. And not just the gatekeeping kind to keep out toxic elements that want to change anime that I mention above. How to put this... if there was no one who genuinely thought x, y, and z anime were better than all other anime, and they beleived it as an objecive fact, then the only anime to get elevated and receive praise would be popular anime. I don't necessarily believe in objective quality, but I think it's useful concept. I like that there are some anime which are held up in a way which is reverent of them and treats them as "high art". That kind of thing is always going to carry a certain amount of elitism because it carries the notion that there is such a thing as good and bad taste.

It's like how the Oscars or any other award ceremony are fundamentally elitist, but they're still exciting if one is big in to movies. I always enjoy anime awards, be it the r/anime awards or Crunchyroll or just some rando YouTube channel. There's something fun about arguing over what is the best anime as though it's an objective thing, even if it isn't. It only becomes toxic when people are overly harsh in putting down other anime. But we can be better than that. We can raise up certain anime without putting down others... right? We can do that? Ah. Well, nevermind then lol.


oh ho, interesting.

The amazing and sad thing about this is that the changes that you mention that can destroy an community are completely subjective. You are absolutely right that the influx of fans with certain tastes changes the general landscape. That means that the community is destroyed only for the old fans that liked how it was before, but the community itself is still existing, just changed. If it's for the best of the worst is not relevant, although I usually think that everything is kind of going for the worst... nosediving sometimes.

My point is that the community will always be there, it just won't be as welcoming or interesting as it was for SOME members. Is like the community is eternal but eventually it will become an completely alien and perhaps horrible thing but it will still be there. The destruction of the community exists in the eyes of the one seeing it.

I also think that is important to have some elitism although I prefer to call it common sense. There must be, as a minimum, enough elitism to differentiate the trash from the actually decent shows because the moment the community can't see the difference then we will only have trash. I feel it already happened but I prefer to think there is still some hope.

And the thing about the "external menaces" to call it someway, yeah, the people that doesn't understand something usually just attack it, although I still find important to at least listen a little to see if is for a reasonable point or not. It usually isn't but still is necessary.

And finally, no, raising something without putting down others would require certain amount of maturity and unfortunately that is something that we can't expect from everyone. That's just how humanity is.
 
Oct 19, 8:37 PM
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influencers is also the word for youtubers or other social media personalities i just remember now

im just gonna say again that "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel" at times and it shows how bad influence is a powerful thing especially in the age of the internet where its easy to spread your thoughts/opinions

but ye for now i do not see any harm (yet) on even the most toxic elitist influencer like ThatAnimeSnob
 
Oct 19, 10:48 PM
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I've personally never gotten the MAL community's obsession with elitists
 
Oct 20, 12:19 AM

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Valyrian1124 said:
Gatekeepers are the problem. You're keeping people from trying something out and deciding for themselves whether or not they like a work, all because you want to maintain your little echochamber that praises a work wholeheartedly. You can't handle people criticizing your favorite show/movie/book/game/whatever, so you try to force them to like it by making them replicate the way you consumed the work "you have to do it this way in this order to understand it/get the most enjoyment!"). You'd rather drive people away than take the chance.

They really are, but usually they aren't the "classic" elitists, but people who fear their anime will become more mainstream and therefore more western in the way it's written and portrayed over time.
Egoistically speaking, I personally like it in anime more, if they aren't THAT typical anime in terms of personalities and character and story tropes, or insanely cute moe. So I can only support the trend of anime that are little bit more western-leaning in their writing and maybe style too. There will be enough other anime left, which look and feel more like the "typical anime". Good for its audience, but more diversity means more fans.
Gatekeeping per se is always shit and I hope these people aren't the first ones that some new fans meet.
 
Oct 20, 12:32 AM

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It's 2019 and people still talking about elitist? Elitist are endanger species.
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Oct 21, 3:01 AM

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There's only a hand full of elitists left. People who watched anime before we got showered with the ample opportunity to watch every anime we want to watch at any time possible. These people are endangered and we should keep them alive.
 
Oct 21, 4:21 AM
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You know, I always find this appellation ("elitist") funny.
First of all, how come people here often talk about it like it's specific to anime fandom? Elitists exist in every community. It's actually a pretty natural behaviour, sadly.
Even grammar has its elitists. Who hasn't met a "grammar nazi", who pretends you disrespect a language whenever you make faults?

Of course they're not a threat. It's not like they threatened anyone or took any violent action outside (as far as I know... xD).
But while it's not threatening, that mentality is cancerous.

Also, "elitist" is just a synonym of "arrogant" in the end, so I don't know why this name was created when there was already one perfectly fitting xD.


Anyway, arrogance/"elitism" is definitely a shitty mentality. I'm always triggered whenever I see someone on their high horses, even when I actually agree with them. Arrogance always comes with a huge lack of respect towards others, a lack of self-reflection, and pure narcissism... and those are the one things I really can't stand xD.


I have an elitist brother.
- he tells what is real cinema and what is not,
- he tells what is good music and what is not,
- he tells who is objective in the discussion, and of course, it's always him.
- instead of accepting divergence of opinion, he tries to explain why the others have the wrong opinion.
- whenever you tell him something he disagrees with, he always tells you WHY you're wrong before wondering IF you're wrong.
- whatever you tell him, if he doesn't agree, he twists your words instead of trying to understand what you actually meant.
- and worst of all, he talks about any subject like he masters it whereas most of the time, he just doesn't know shit about the things he talks about.


All that is typical elitist behaviour.
Those people who pretend they can say what is obvectively good and what is not.
Those people who are so full of themselves that anyone who disagrees with them is simply not objective.
Those people who think so high of themselves that they don't realize it when they have no right to judge.

They're just a pain in the ass. Of course I'm nor targeting anyone specifically ^^.

Finally, I already see some comments here about how someone with proper argumentation is often called "elitist". This type of comment always appear when this subject is brought up xD.

The thing is, it's not about the argumentation (elitists can have some great arguments, just like they can be full of shit, like everyone else). It's about the reasoning.

As I said earlier: an elitist will directly try to show you why you're wrong, instead of trying to understand what you say, and will never accept the idea that they might not be objective themselves.

And while it is no threat to anyone's life, it is a huge threat to the good ambiance of a community. At the very least, discussing with this type of mentality never ends up enjoyable.
In other words: that mentality is toxic.
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Oct 21, 10:42 AM

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What do you mean by "big threat"?

Just let them do their thing, no need to be triggered by them
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Oct 21, 10:52 AM

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I don't know, it's rather difficult to feel threatened by something that doesn't exist.
 
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