How Do You View Marriage/Divorce Desu?~☆♡

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Mar 2014

1399

Soverign said:
In the US the benefits are very low compared to the risks.

Some new data about divorce and non-marital breakups contains an unexpected finding, and I think it underscores the fact that we're in the midst of an ongoing evolution in what people want and seek in their romantic relationships. The study, based on a survey of over 2000 heterosexual couples, found that women initiated nearly 70 percent of all divorces. Yet there was no significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by women and men in non-marriage relationships.

How to explain the data? I find that these data are consistent with what I and others have seen clinically. When men and women seek couples therapy and then subsequently divorce; or, when either partner seeks individual therapy about a marriage conflict that ends in divorce, it’s often the woman who expresses more overt conflict and dissatisfaction about the state of the marriage. On the other hand, the man is more likely to report feeling troubled by his wife’s dissatisfaction, but pretty much “OK” with the way things are; he's content to just lope along as time passes.

In contrast, I find that younger couples—who are more likely to form non-marital but committed relationships—experience more egalitarian partnerships to begin with. When their relationships crumble beyond repair, both partners experience that disintegration. Both are equally likely to address it; and part, if it can’t be healed.

These clinical observations are consistent with what the study’s lead author, Michael Rosenfeld, suggests: that women may be more likely to initiate divorces because the married women reported lower levels of relationship quality than married men. In contrast, women and men in non-marital relationships reported equal levels of relationship quality. Rosenfeld said his results support the feminist assertion that some women experience heterosexual marriage as oppressive or uncomfortable.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-resilience/201508/women-initiate-divorce-much-more-men-heres-why

Abstaining from marriage as the societal bludgeon and financial resource redistribution tool that it is, is however no excuse to abandon and not provide support for your offspring.

i honestly laughed when reading that article, especially the last paragraph. "gender equality" is a fluke and you know that. just go ask the women you met anywhere how many of them who would work as a building worker if there was a vacancy on said job. i'm sure no women would want it if she isn't desperate for work. they'd rather work indoor with a small wage than have to be a building worker. just go ask if you don't believe me.

Oct 5, 2019 12:09 PM

#53

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:

So, if you get divorced after a few years, it's still just "lust"? Come on, that's just pink glasses you wear there.

you meant if there's still a feeling left between the two after divorced is this feeling a lust or what? i don't understand.

i criticized the people who often blames marriage for a failure marriage which is a hypocrisy. this no different with you blaming the car you're driving when your car crashed into the wall. what do you think if i say, "conversation is bad and shouldn't happen cuz talking to others might lead to different opinions and conflict might rise up from having such differences." you might think me hypocrite, right? cuz i blame conversation for causing something that the conversation itself doesn't have any control about it, which is the output/end result of conversation. the result vary between people. some conversation may lead to conflict and some others lead to cooperation. the same thing with marriage.

you can't say marriage is bad cuz you see many failure marriages around you. you have to learn about the marriage itself, what's the marriage or why it was "invented" by people and for what reason. what thing people want to get from their marriage? now after you understand the reason why such thing was "created", "socially constructed", "invented" (or any term you want to use) in the past, then you have to see to those failure marriages around you and compare it to get an answer.

but you're too lazy to do that, right? you accept things in society based on your society perspective. so, no matter how good a thing is, if people around you says it's bad thing, you wouldn't do it cuz you maybe afraid you might be excluded as a part of society if you do something bad in your society.

look, i can understand if you use argument, "the reality on my society today, there are more failure marriages than the successful ones." but this argument doesn't explicitly means marriage is a failure. cuz like i said, marriage itself is like a sanctuary, a place. what you two want to make the place to be, a bad one, a good one, it all depend on you two. and if the place turn out to be a bad place, you have to introspect yourself, not blaming the place for turning into something bad. cuz you yourself are the one who's responsible to design the place yourself.

that's why i said this here again, before getting married, the couple should consult to their close friends or family first about each partner. to observe things from neutral and logical side, to know whether your partner really love you or not. cuz your eyes and mind might be blinded by your love for your partner that's why a third party perspective is necessary in this matter.

I mean it like that: Imagine you are together for 10 years and then something happens that destroys your marriage, was it just "lust", even it had been for 10 years?

This "IF they really love/loved you" is an over-idealistic concept. Life doesn't work that way. You can love someone a lot and the relationship doesn't succeed.
And imagine this: sometimes, if parents lose their child, they promise to each other to stay together in hard times. Reality often is different from that, especially if some kind of accident or illness had been involved and they begin to blame each other. You can't fully avoid behavior from your partner or yourself by loving each other a lot.
There a dozens of situations like this. If your partner works hard and you barely see each other or if you develop into absolutely different directions. All of this stuff happens. People just don't want to hear it, because they prefer to live in a perfect world that never existed.
You can't know after 1 year or 5 or 10, if it's going to last. Maybe it will be or maybe not.

Just because people stay together, doesn't mean their marriage is good or not a failure.
Not people around you decide, if your marriage was a failure, to begin with. You decide that on your own and if you both decide: okay, better to move on, after a few years of being together, and you have fond memories of that time and person, and maybe still see them, then you aren't forced into thinking the marriage had been a failure.

Why should people consult their friends and family first? It's the minimum that my partner is a fix part of my friends.

Oct 5, 2019 12:16 PM

#54

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

nym_ said:

Soverign said:
In the US the benefits are very low compared to the risks.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-resilience/201508/women-initiate-divorce-much-more-men-heres-why

Abstaining from marriage as the societal bludgeon and financial resource redistribution tool that it is, is however no excuse to abandon and not provide support for your offspring.

i honestly laughed when reading that article, especially the last paragraph. "gender equality" is a fluke and you know that. just go ask the women you met anywhere how many of them who would work as a building worker if there was a vacancy on said job. i'm sure no women would want it if she isn't desperate for work. they'd rather work indoor with a small wage than have to be a building worker. just go ask if you don't believe me.

Exactly, it's a fluke, if you don't understand the meaning of it at all. Or you just don't want to. Slim and physically weak men also won't prefer to work physically hard. So what do you try to prove?

Oct 5, 2019 12:46 PM

#55

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

you meant if there's still a feeling left between the two after divorced is this feeling a lust or what? i don't understand.

i criticized the people who often blames marriage for a failure marriage which is a hypocrisy. this no different with you blaming the car you're driving when your car crashed into the wall. what do you think if i say, "conversation is bad and shouldn't happen cuz talking to others might lead to different opinions and conflict might rise up from having such differences." you might think me hypocrite, right? cuz i blame conversation for causing something that the conversation itself doesn't have any control about it, which is the output/end result of conversation. the result vary between people. some conversation may lead to conflict and some others lead to cooperation. the same thing with marriage.

you can't say marriage is bad cuz you see many failure marriages around you. you have to learn about the marriage itself, what's the marriage or why it was "invented" by people and for what reason. what thing people want to get from their marriage? now after you understand the reason why such thing was "created", "socially constructed", "invented" (or any term you want to use) in the past, then you have to see to those failure marriages around you and compare it to get an answer.

but you're too lazy to do that, right? you accept things in society based on your society perspective. so, no matter how good a thing is, if people around you says it's bad thing, you wouldn't do it cuz you maybe afraid you might be excluded as a part of society if you do something bad in your society.

look, i can understand if you use argument, "the reality on my society today, there are more failure marriages than the successful ones." but this argument doesn't explicitly means marriage is a failure. cuz like i said, marriage itself is like a sanctuary, a place. what you two want to make the place to be, a bad one, a good one, it all depend on you two. and if the place turn out to be a bad place, you have to introspect yourself, not blaming the place for turning into something bad. cuz you yourself are the one who's responsible to design the place yourself.

that's why i said this here again, before getting married, the couple should consult to their close friends or family first about each partner. to observe things from neutral and logical side, to know whether your partner really love you or not. cuz your eyes and mind might be blinded by your love for your partner that's why a third party perspective is necessary in this matter.

I mean it like that: Imagine you are together for 10 years and then something happens that destroys your marriage, was it just "lust", even it had been for 10 years?

This "IF they really love/loved you" is an over-idealistic concept. Life doesn't work that way. You can love someone a lot and the relationship doesn't succeed.
And imagine this: sometimes, if parents lose their child, they promise to each other to stay together in hard times. Reality often is different from that, especially if some kind of accident or illness had been involved and they begin to blame each other. You can't fully avoid behavior from your partner or yourself by loving each other a lot.
There a dozens of situations like this. If your partner works hard and you barely see each other or if you develop into absolutely different directions. All of this stuff happens. People just don't want to hear it, because they prefer to live in a perfect world that never existed.
You can't know after 1 year or 5 or 10, if it's going to last. Maybe it will be or maybe not.

Just because people stay together, doesn't mean their marriage is good or not a failure.
Not people around you decide, if your marriage was a failure, to begin with. You decide that on your own and if you both decide: okay, better to move on, after a few years of being together, and you have fond memories of that time and person, and maybe still see them, then you aren't forced into thinking the marriage had been a failure.

Why should people consult their friends and family first? It's the minimum that my partner is a fix part of my friends.

nope. but can you imagine yourself wanting to be separated from someone dear to you? logically, no one want to be separated from people they love, right? so this "drive to separate", i'd assume, it stems from lust. ofc i can't say this surely before fully know what's the cause for divorce. and this also one of answer why you need to consult your close friends or family opinion before holding a marriage. many people neglect the importance of close friends' or family's (especially your parents) role in maintaining marriage with argument, "what does it have to do with my life? it's MY life. i'm free to choose and decide what i want to do to MY own life." i support individualism and freedom but without a wisdom to guide, we all will just be an ignorant being.

should i say it again? "you have to know what your marriage is for." "you have to know what you want to get from your marriage." and one thing i forgot to add before, "you have to know why you chose him/her as your partner." please think about what i said thoroughly cuz me tired have to write the same thing over and over and this discussion doesn't move anywhere.

yes i agree with your "just because people stay together, doesn't mean their marriage is good or not a failure" argument. so why you avoid marriage now? that's what i don't understand. why you stigmatized marriage as something fearful, as something that should be abolished? this is what i can't understand from you. if you agree that marriage could be good or bad, what prevent you from having it? you might answer, "cuz from what i see from the people around me, many of their marriage ended with divorce" am i right to assume so? if that's really your reasoning for not having marriage then you're just contradicting yourself. cuz first you said "marriage could be good or bad" and then you said "marriage is bad cuz society showed me so". you see what you did there? you picked one of two possibilities which is the bad one as your answer and ignore the good one just because someone told you so.

why you should consult first? to make sure you're not blinded by your love and overlooked a critical and important thing about your partner. that's why. and a marriage connects things not the opposite.

Oct 5, 2019 1:06 PM

#56

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

Soverign said:
In the US the benefits are very low compared to the risks.

Some new data about divorce and non-marital breakups contains an unexpected finding, and I think it underscores the fact that we're in the midst of an ongoing evolution in what people want and seek in their romantic relationships. The study, based on a survey of over 2000 heterosexual couples, found that women initiated nearly 70 percent of all divorces. Yet there was no significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by women and men in non-marriage relationships.

How to explain the data? I find that these data are consistent with what I and others have seen clinically. When men and women seek couples therapy and then subsequently divorce; or, when either partner seeks individual therapy about a marriage conflict that ends in divorce, it’s often the woman who expresses more overt conflict and dissatisfaction about the state of the marriage. On the other hand, the man is more likely to report feeling troubled by his wife’s dissatisfaction, but pretty much “OK” with the way things are; he's content to just lope along as time passes.

In contrast, I find that younger couples—who are more likely to form non-marital but committed relationships—experience more egalitarian partnerships to begin with. When their relationships crumble beyond repair, both partners experience that disintegration. Both are equally likely to address it; and part, if it can’t be healed.

These clinical observations are consistent with what the study’s lead author, Michael Rosenfeld, suggests: that women may be more likely to initiate divorces because the married women reported lower levels of relationship quality than married men. In contrast, women and men in non-marital relationships reported equal levels of relationship quality. Rosenfeld said his results support the feminist assertion that some women experience heterosexual marriage as oppressive or uncomfortable.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-resilience/201508/women-initiate-divorce-much-more-men-heres-why

Abstaining from marriage as the societal bludgeon and financial resource redistribution tool that it is, is however no excuse to abandon and not provide support for your offspring.

i honestly laughed when reading that article, especially the last paragraph. "gender equality" is a fluke and you know that. just go ask the women you met anywhere how many of them who would work as a building worker if there was a vacancy on said job. i'm sure no women would want it if she isn't desperate for work. they'd rather work indoor with a small wage than have to be a building worker. just go ask if you don't believe me.

Exactly, it's a fluke, if you don't understand the meaning of it at all. Or you just don't want to. Slim and physically weak men also won't prefer to work physically hard. So what do you try to prove?

i fully understand the initial context of "gender equality" was stemmed from economy. i understand that after the WWI, the pressure caused by war created some inhuman "lifestyle" in society. and women were at the lowest end of this lifestyle. they were seen not as a human being but a mere tool and religious doctrines about women made this worse.
i fully understand that this "gender equality" use liberalism arguments for their campaign. "modern life should be free from restrictions. a life where all human can pursue things they want, including economy." you see, before liberalism, only men who's allowed to work outside and women should just be at home taking care of home and children (industrial age family concept). but now, since we're now live in modern day, anything that restrict women to do any things they want, to take any jobs they like should be abolished.
i fully understand that everything about this "gender equality" is based on economic-system revolution more than social-system revolution and that's why the expectation from this "gender equality" is financial providence for women. and please don't use "but you don't understand! that's just the first step for the women emancipation!" argument cuz me too tired to explain to you about this women emancipation stuff (where it came from, what're its fundamental values, or how the actual practice in society)

Oct 5, 2019 1:19 PM

#57

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

nym_ said:
nope. but can you imagine yourself wanting to be separated from someone dear to you? logically, no one want to be separated from people they love, right? so this "drive to separate", i'd assume, it stems from lust. ofc i can't say this surely before fully know what's the cause for divorce.

The last sentence says it all. You don't know it.
And it looks like you want to label everything as shallow and being nothing more than lust, when it doesn't work out. It's not like they hop from one to another every week.
If it didn't work out after trying, other people shouldn't put their nose in their privacy stuff like they are always doing.

nym_ said:
and this also one of answer why you need to consult your close friends or family opinion before holding a marriage. many people neglect the importance of close friends' or family's (especially your parents) role in maintaining marriage with argument, "what does it have to do with my life? it's MY life. i'm free to choose and decide what i want to do to MY own life." i support individualism and freedom but without a wisdom to guide, we all will just be an ignorant being.

How do you come to the conclusion that many people's parents could have the "wisdom to guide"? Many of them are ignorant beings themselves. I know many people, who hate their parents for very valid reasons, some others love them or at least get along with one or both so-so.
Personally I wouldn't consider my mom as a wise guide and won't take advices from her, since she isn't in the situation and doesn't have the own emotional ressources to give some, imo. And I do know her very well, so I can come to this conclusion.

Also, I don't see a difference to any other kind of relationship?

nym_ said:
should i say it again? "you have to know what your marriage is for." "you have to know what you want to get from your marriage." and one thing i forgot to add before, "you have to know why you chose him/her as your partner." please think about what i said thoroughly cuz me tired have to write the same thing over and over and this discussion doesn't move anywhere.

What is this patronizing behavior here?
I rather make a mistake than not trying a relationship anyway and that comes from someone, who actually thinks that through a lot, before entering a relationship. You can't go through life wrapped in cotton and avoid everything that couldn't work out. I don't regret my former relationships, or something similar to it? It didn't work, we stayed close friends, end of the story.

I also don't see how a not registered relationship is less worthy than a marriage. Also I just wanted to invite gay marriage into society too, because there are a lots of rights you won't have without being married.
It's dumb on paper. Marriage and a wedding should only be a religious ceremony and not linked to actual rights and laws.

nym_ said:
yes i agree with your "just because people stay together, doesn't mean their marriage is good or not a failure" argument. so why you avoid marriage now? that's what i don't understand. why you stigmatized marriage as something fearful, as something that should be abolished?

I didn't do this for all. It's just harder to get out, if you are in an awful relationship and people will blame you, although it's not their business to judge without knowing anything about their relationship.

nym_ said:
this is what i can't understand from you. if you agree that marriage could be good or bad, what prevent you from having it? you might answer, "cuz from what i see from the people around me, many of their marriage ended with divorce" am i right to assume so? if that's really your reasoning for not having marriage then you're just contradicting yourself. cuz first you said "marriage could be good or bad" and then you said "marriage is bad cuz society showed me so". you see what you did there? you picked one of two possibilities which is the bad one as your answer and ignore the good one just because someone told you so.

I never said that. There are people, who's relationship last and other couples that don't work out. I experienced it that way and never said it's bad per se.

It's just useless and in a few worst cases dangerous, if you have troubles getting out.
There aren't any differences to a normal couple that aren't defined by the law.

nym_ said:
why you should consult first? to make sure you're not blinded by your love and overlooked a critical and important thing about your partner. that's why. and a marriage connects things not the opposite.

I always knew them very well and I'm surely not blinded by love, since I never fell in love in that typical or "normal" way. I never had really this stuff with butterflies, pink glasses or the like, tbh.

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

Soverign said:
In the US the benefits are very low compared to the risks.

Some new data about divorce and non-marital breakups contains an unexpected finding, and I think it underscores the fact that we're in the midst of an ongoing evolution in what people want and seek in their romantic relationships. The study, based on a survey of over 2000 heterosexual couples, found that women initiated nearly 70 percent of all divorces. Yet there was no significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by women and men in non-marriage relationships.

How to explain the data? I find that these data are consistent with what I and others have seen clinically. When men and women seek couples therapy and then subsequently divorce; or, when either partner seeks individual therapy about a marriage conflict that ends in divorce, it’s often the woman who expresses more overt conflict and dissatisfaction about the state of the marriage. On the other hand, the man is more likely to report feeling troubled by his wife’s dissatisfaction, but pretty much “OK” with the way things are; he's content to just lope along as time passes.

In contrast, I find that younger couples—who are more likely to form non-marital but committed relationships—experience more egalitarian partnerships to begin with. When their relationships crumble beyond repair, both partners experience that disintegration. Both are equally likely to address it; and part, if it can’t be healed.

These clinical observations are consistent with what the study’s lead author, Michael Rosenfeld, suggests: that women may be more likely to initiate divorces because the married women reported lower levels of relationship quality than married men. In contrast, women and men in non-marital relationships reported equal levels of relationship quality. Rosenfeld said his results support the feminist assertion that some women experience heterosexual marriage as oppressive or uncomfortable.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-resilience/201508/women-initiate-divorce-much-more-men-heres-why

Abstaining from marriage as the societal bludgeon and financial resource redistribution tool that it is, is however no excuse to abandon and not provide support for your offspring.

i honestly laughed when reading that article, especially the last paragraph. "gender equality" is a fluke and you know that. just go ask the women you met anywhere how many of them who would work as a building worker if there was a vacancy on said job. i'm sure no women would want it if she isn't desperate for work. they'd rather work indoor with a small wage than have to be a building worker. just go ask if you don't believe me.

Exactly, it's a fluke, if you don't understand the meaning of it at all. Or you just don't want to. Slim and physically weak men also won't prefer to work physically hard. So what do you try to prove?

i fully understand the initial context of "gender equality" was stemmed from economy. i understand that after the WWI, the pressure caused by war created some inhuman "lifestyle" in society. and women were at the lowest end of this lifestyle. they were seen not as a human being but a mere tool and religious doctrines about women made this worse.
i fully understand that this "gender equality" use liberalism arguments for their campaign. "modern life should be free from restrictions. a life where all human can pursue things they want, including economy." you see, before liberalism, only men who's allowed to work outside and women should just be at home taking care of home and children (industrial age family concept). but now, since we're now live in modern day, anything that restrict women to do any things they want, to take any jobs they like should be abolished.
i fully understand that everything about this "gender equality" is based on economic-system revolution more than social-system revolution and that's why the expectation from this "gender equality" is financial providence for women. and please don't use "but you don't understand! that's just the first step for the women emancipation!" argument cuz me too tired to explain to you about this women emancipation stuff (where it came from, what're its fundamental values, or how the actual practice in society)

Nice how you keep patronizing and make up arguments for me, before I said anything?

removed-userOct 5, 2019 1:28 PM

Oct 5, 2019 1:46 PM

#58

Kosmonaut

Offline

Feb 2019

4373

Railey2 said:

Kosmonaut said:

When one marries, does one suddenly stop being jealous? I seriously can't see from where you concluded that there's no jealousy or insecurity in marriages. If someone is jealous, controlling or insecure, it won't be a piece of paper that will stop them from being so.

yes, you magically become better because marriage is a sanctuary.

Thats how it works. Totally not a dangerous idea to have in your head at all, brb teaching this to my daughter.

Who even said it's healthier to approach every relationship with a realistic POV? That fucker is an idiot. Marriage should definitely be idealized.

Your daughter will make a fine, composed woman. Send her my away after her menarch. I'll be sure to send my best goat your way.

Oct 5, 2019 2:10 PM

#59

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

maneki said:
The last sentence says it all. You don't know it.
And it looks like you want to label everything as shallow and being nothing more than lust, when it doesn't work out. It's not like they hop from one to another every week.
If it didn't work out after trying, other people shouldn't put their nose in their privacy stuff like they are always doing.

i don't try or even want to try to label stuff as "shallow and being nothing more than lust" just like what you said. i just made an assumption based on what little scenario you told me and my assumption could be wrong or right. that's why i said in the end "i can't this surely..." to emphasize the possibility of my assumption to be wrong or right.
after you divorce? yes of course no one can do that after you decide to divorce. what i meant is before you decide to do that.

mew said:
How do you come to the conclusion that many people's parents could have the "wisdom to guide"? Many of them are ignorant beings themselves. I know many people, who hate their parents for very valid reasons, some others love them or at least get along with one or both so-so.
Personally I wouldn't consider my mom as a wise guide and won't take advices from her, since she isn't in the situation and doesn't have the own emotional ressources to give some, imo. And I do know her very well, so I can come to this conclusion.

Also, I don't see a difference to any other kind of relationship?

if you think your parents are not wise enough ask your close friends who is wise enough. and if you don't have such a friend then ask to someone who has knowledge about the matter. the point here is to not take action based on emotional impulse.

okay. let me be specific here. what "relationship" you mean?

maneki said:
What is this patronizing behavior here?
I rather make a mistake than not trying a relationship anyway and that comes from someone, who actually thinks that through a lot, before entering a relationship. You can't go through life wrapped in cotton and avoid everything that couldn't work out. I don't regret my former relationships, or something similar to it? It didn't work, we stayed close friends, end of the story.

I also don't see how a not registered relationship is less worthy than a marriage. Also I just wanted to invite gay marriage into society too, because there are a lots of rights you won't have without being married.
It's dumb on paper. Marriage and a wedding should only be a religious ceremony and not linked to actual rights and laws.

i don't see any problem with your first paragraph tbh and i agree with you. it's better to take chance and fail than to not. so i don't have any problem with it. the problem is when people spread a doctrine that "it's useless and dumb to take the chance" to another people based on their own experience. making another people who hadn't experienced it become traumatized by this doctrine. cuz like i said, marriage could be a good or bad thing depend on the intention of people involved within.

please explain to what what kind of "unregistered relationship" you mean so we can discuss about it more specific.

about gay marriage, i don't have any problem with it. my problem is with the nature of gay. cuz up till now, i still can't find any natural reasons to support this "culture". i know historically, this "culture" had been existed long before the Greek or Roman Empire existed but since it's a culture, it can't be implemented universally to all human beings. the same with seppuku culture. for Japanese, it's normal and honorable but for Westerner it might be unreasonable. so seppuku can't be applied to US or EU laws and regulations.

mew said:
I never said that. There are people, who's relationship last and other couples that don't work out. I experienced it that way and never said it's bad per se.

It's just useless and in a few worst cases dangerous, if you have troubles getting out.
There aren't any differences to a normal couple that aren't defined by the law.

you never said it's bad, so what point you want to make here? cuz if you really meant that then we're one argument about this matter.

again for the sake of discussion, let we define this "non-registered marriage/relationship" cuz i think this is the main topic of our discussion. "to compare between marriage and non-marriage relationship", right?

maneki said:
I always knew them very well and I'm surely not blinded by love, since I never fell in love in that typical or "normal" way. I never had really this stuff with butterflies, pink glasses or the like, tbh.

you're a very trusting and honest person aren't you? did you know that Hitler said that he did nothing wrong and his love for his motherland is a pure love? that he didn't blinded by his love or any emotional impulse that everything he did is an "logical" action? you know that Hitler not even a romantic person right?

what i want to tell you is we can never be sure to really know about our self before mirroring it with others. that's why we're called a social creature.

mew said:
Nice how you keep patronizing and make up arguments for me, before I said anything?

if you disagree with anything i said, you're always welcome to refute. it's not like this the first time we see this kind of discussion, right? and i think we both already know what the other party want to bring up to the table. so that's why i skimmed over the introduction part and went straight to the point.

Nym_Oct 5, 2019 2:59 PM

Oct 5, 2019 2:40 PM

#60

AnimeFreak-San

Offline

Sep 2014

3353

not going to happen anytime soon i got too much baggage. one day i will get married and divorced liek the rest of the normies when my life becomes more normie like.

Oct 5, 2019 2:50 PM

#61

Alfond

Offline

Mar 2013

3716

I like the idea of marriage, it sounds like a very beautiful thing to marry someone you love and spend the rest of your lives together, but it seems like nowadays it's just not as "sacred" as it used to be. People get divorced at the first sign of trouble and don't even try to save the marriage. I mean, breaking up for whatever reason is fine when you're dating, but isn't marriage supposed to be "'til death do us apart"? The only valid reasons I can think of to get a divorce is in cases of cheating or abuse. Anyways, I don't plan on getting married but I do like it as a concept.

Oct 5, 2019 3:05 PM

#62

Damuzen

Offline

Sep 2017

3071

I view marriage as an "official" way to unite two persons regarding laws and all the financial stuff, but people don't need to get married to "officialize" their love. As long as people are happy together, they don't need to be married if they don't want to or because they want to have children

I'm not against the idea of getting married, but of course that will be a civil marriage only.

And divorce is not a bad thing. Well, of course, it's sad. But, if two married people don't love each other anymore, I don't see why they should stay together (and sad and frustrated) anymore instead of just divorcing and finding another lover

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Oct 5, 2019 3:06 PM

#63

Offline

Oct 2018

1913

My cousin (who was getting her degree as a lawyer) singned her new house up to her now ex husband alone and he ended up keeping the house when they broke up. She paid him three quarters of what it actually costed her to get it back just to not have the rest of her family members find out such as her uncle, (a lawyer) her aunt, (also a lawyer) etc. If I ever get married I'd be damn sure not to sign properties to my partner alone just to "prove how much I trust them" desu.~☆♡

サディスティックな考え
"JUST KILL ME."
サディスティックマインド

Oct 5, 2019 3:07 PM

#64

Bakchos

Offline

Jun 2019

2090

Kosmonaut said:

Railey2 said:

yes, you magically become better because marriage is a sanctuary.

Thats how it works. Totally not a dangerous idea to have in your head at all, brb teaching this to my daughter.

Who even said it's healthier to approach every relationship with a realistic POV? That fucker is an idiot. Marriage should definitely be idealized.

Your daughter will make a fine, composed woman. Send her my away after her menarch. I'll be sure to send my best goat your way.

I thought you preferred them pre-pubescent...

Leading biologist Scott Pitnick said:
The bigger your 'nads, the smaller your brains

Oct 5, 2019 3:26 PM

#65

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

nym_ said:
you're a very trusting and honest person aren't you? did you know that Hitler said that he did nothing wrong and his love for his motherland is a pure love? that he didn't blinded by his love or any emotional impulse that everything he did is an "logical" action? you know that Hitler not even a romantic person right?

what i want to tell you is we can never be sure to really know about our self before mirroring it with others. that's why we're called a social creature.

What the...? This comparison is insane. What.
Also I don't know how your friend circle looks like, but we talk often about our relationships and not only once before you'd get married. If you have a specific thought or idea, you just tell them.

I don't think you understood my statement at all. I just never had been in love in the same way other people are. That's just a fact for me and that doesn't mean at all I never loved them, but I don't wear pink glasses for that reason.

okay. let me be specific here. what "relationship" you mean?

My ex since it didn't work out, but I wouldn't it call a fully a relationship either. It was more like a friendship in my eyes, where I tried being on an intimate level with. Because I actually do love him, but I just don't want to sleep with men, less than with a woman at least. And there it's also not a must. This should explain the other topic enough. It's not about a culture, you're physically unable to or you have to overcome yourself a lot. That's an awful feeling, for him and me. I would have stayed with him otherwise / maybe, because he also wanted the same things all in all, including having children someday.

please explain to what what kind of "unregistered relationship" you mean so we can discuss about it more specific.

Just every couple that isn't married.

I don't know, why consenting adults should get financial profit from the state for the mere fact that they are consenting adults with a paper in their hand. I can't think of another reason than holding up conservative values.
If they become parents, then they should get the financial support, since their monthly wage must feed more people from now on. Fimancial support shouldn't be available for married couples without any kids.

That's actually the case here and that's an important factor why people still get married: Tax relief. You'll get into another tax class.
Not out of endless, great love. You could stay together without getting married, if it weren't for your tax class and some other laws.

If your partner gets involved in an accident, you're only allowed to visit them in hospital as their official spouse. It would be so easy to fill out a paper, where you could decide who's allowed to visit you in an emergency case like this. You could fill in best friends to your partner you're not married to, everyone who is close to you from your point of view, not the state's point of view. The law literally tells you then: If you aren't related or married, then you aren't close enough to see them. Society changes a lot too and more and more people don't care so much about biological family bonds or marriage anymore, I think.

Oct 5, 2019 3:35 PM

#66

Manaban

Arch-Degenerate

Offline

Sep 2015

7676

Waste of time, all of it

Maybe the day will come where I actually want a relationship, but for the time being, no, out of the question, I want to focus on my job and enjoy my free time with as few responsibilities and obligations as possible, I'm still young and all

Divorce sounds horrible to me so I would probably want to be as sure as possible to avoid it

Oct 5, 2019 3:39 PM

#67

Offline

Oct 2018

1913

nym_ said:
Fimancial support shouldn't be available for married couples without any kids.

That's actually the case here and that's an important factor why people still get married: Tax relief.

It's scary to know that people that don't actually love each other get married for tax cuts and what not. Wonder by how much percentage would the marriage rate drop if you could get these benefits "only" if you have children desu ne.~☆♡

サディスティックな考え
"JUST KILL ME."
サディスティックマインド

Oct 5, 2019 3:53 PM

#68

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

NlCE said:

nym_ said:
Fimancial support shouldn't be available for married couples without any kids.

That's actually the case here and that's an important factor why people still get married: Tax relief.

It's scary to know that people that don't actually love each other get married for tax cuts and what not. Wonder by how much percentage would the marriage rate drop if you could get these benefits "only" if you have children desu ne.~☆♡

I don't think this happens so often. People just getting married too soon, because they are already in a relationship and think they could benefit from it financially early on.

Oct 5, 2019 4:27 PM

#69

Nokkun

Offline

May 2019

53

I don't really find a sentimental reason to get married. In my view, if you love the person you're with, there is no need to get married in order to be faithful or to give that relationship extra meaning. Also, getting divorced is such an hassle, and normally ends up with two people hating each other, and being petty over money.
This said, in a lot of place it is a tradition, and some people take a lot of pride in getting married, and that constitutes a mark in their lives. It is also a religious tradition, and it make sense for religious people to get married, if that is part of their beliefs.
Personally, I don't think I'll ever get married. Relationships seem to be getting shorter and shorter, and I rather not sign a piece of paper that will only give me headaches. But, people in general should do what makes them happy.

Woow, a set.

Oct 5, 2019 4:35 PM

#70

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

I'm getting married next year. Both of my parents are strong Christians but they divorced when I was 1 year old. I wouldn't get married if I wasn't a Christian. The laws are just too messed up now. Society is pretty messed up now.

Oct 5, 2019 4:36 PM

#71

RicePounder

Offline

Sep 2019

993

Marriage is just a human-made concept to claim a partner for oneself, with the intent to exclude others from forming the same tight bond - unless they go through a formal process to be included. Marriage itself does not exist in nature, b/c nature has no formal rule and definition of "marriage". Sure, there are animals that form exclusive relations, but animals have no established RULE that defines said relationship.

Humans are the only sentient living beings that we know of that made up rules (moral standards or legal standards) regarding the forming of a domestic partnership. Marriage exists as a means to declare the existence of some formal pact that is recognized by a community or by law.

In reality, you can still experience the same "joys of marriage or being with a domestic partner" w/o having to go through the proper steps to formalize a marriage. Marriage is just a loose concept that humans try to make into a concrete/tangible thing that can be metaphorically touched. You can still experience the same feelings, struggles, happiness, and sadness with a domestic partner With Or Without being "married" to them.

So when people break apart a marriage or continue it, what they are really doing is expressing their actions to either keep a socialy recognized partnership or decide to split the relationship with recognition of society. Again, in reality, you can form a family unit however you want, its just a matter of whether or not you want to abide for formal methods or informal.

There is no natural rule that states you have to be with just one partner or you are allowed multiple...its just a matter of societal standards and whether or not 2 individuals agree to something or not.

Oct 5, 2019 5:30 PM

#72

Neo-X

Offline

Apr 2017

103

If I ever get so drunk that I want to marry someone, please shoot me before I do that.
At least in the "proper way".

I am not really into romantic relationships, but if I ever want to marry, then a unofficial ceremony.
Never will I legally marry any woman.

It is pretty easy. Either I have more money than her, or she more than me. In both cases the legal system in my country is so f*ed up that she will probably go out of it with a plus if we divorce.
The only real benefits of marriage are the taxation rules and stuff concerning children, but I am no planning on getting one of these STDs. So, no (legal)marriage for me.

Oct 5, 2019 6:21 PM

#73

149597871

Cat Hater

Offline

Feb 2017

8665

Well, the wedding is a pure scam, you can buy a house in many countries for that amount of money. You are also scamming the people you invited by requiring them to bring a few hundred dollars each as a gift to compensate for the wedding industry scamming you.

I have mixed feelings about marriage itself though.

Oct 5, 2019 7:12 PM

#74

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

NlCE said:

nym_ said:
Fimancial support shouldn't be available for married couples without any kids.

That's actually the case here and that's an important factor why people still get married: Tax relief.

It's scary to know that people that don't actually love each other get married for tax cuts and what not. Wonder by how much percentage would the marriage rate drop if you could get these benefits "only" if you have children desu ne.~☆♡

you misquoted me there, my friend. it was maneki's statement, not mine. i almost thought i unconsciously wrote something stupid when i fell asleep in front of monitor last night -___-

@maneki-mew

maneki said:
What the...? This comparison is insane. What.
Also I don't know how your friend circle looks like, but we talk often about our relationships and not only once before you'd get married. If you have a specific thought or idea, you just tell them.

I don't think you understood my statement at all. I just never had been in love in the same way other people are. That's just a fact for me and that doesn't mean at all I never loved them, but I don't wear pink glasses for that reason.

my argument about Hitler's love was to counter your argument "i'm surely not blinded by love". i don't have any problem with you "never fell in love in that typical or a normal way" cuz i accept that there are many ways someone fall in love. so my argument was trying to tell you "even the most unromantic man can be blinded by love once he fell in". so when you said "i'm SURELY not blinded by love", it felt kinda too idealistic to me.

my siblings and parents, i only have 2 close friends and just small circle of acquaintances or colleagues. to my close friends, we don't talk "often" about our relationship cuz we keep private things stay private but would gladly discuss about it if one of us need an advice. though i don't know if they also feel the same but from the last 12 years of friendship, i get the feeling that we have similar perspective about how we want to talk about our personal issues.

again i say, i don't have any problem with the way you fall in love. i accept that there are so many ways someone could fall in love or to express their love and i don't have any problem with that. my problem is about a marriage. "should one who doesn't love each other get married?" i don't ask about the possibility cuz know it's very possible for such thing to happen. what i ask is should we let it to happen, logically-speaking?

mew said:
My ex since it didn't work out, but I wouldn't it call a fully a relationship either. It was more like a friendship in my eyes, where I tried being on an intimate level with. Because I actually do love him, but I just don't want to sleep with men, less than with a woman at least. And there it's also not a must. This should explain the other topic enough. It's not about a culture, you're physically unable to or you have to overcome yourself a lot. That's an awful feeling, for him and me. I would have stayed with him otherwise / maybe, because he also wanted the same things all in all, including having children someday.

first let me make things clear here. this "ex" is this refer to ex-hubby or ex-bf/ex-gf? cuz there's a different between the two. i'm sorry if i might seems aggressive. i really don't wanna pry about your private life but since you brought this into the table so i had to slice 'em up. if you don't wanna we can skip this part and focus on continuing another kind of relationship you brought up.

maneki said:
Just every couple that isn't married.

I don't know, why consenting adults should get financial profit from the state for the mere fact that they are consenting adults with a paper in their hand. I can't think of another reason than holding up conservative values.
If they become parents, then they should get the financial support, since their monthly wage must feed more people from now on. Fimancial support shouldn't be available for married couples without any kids.

That's actually the case here and that's an important factor why people still get married: Tax relief. You'll get into another tax class.
Not out of endless, great love. You could stay together without getting married, if it weren't for your tax class and some other laws.

If your partner gets involved in an accident, you're only allowed to visit them in hospital as their official spouse. It would be so easy to fill out a paper, where you could decide who's allowed to visit you in an emergency case like this. You could fill in best friends to your partner you're not married to, everyone who is close to you from your point of view, not the state's point of view. The law literally tells you then: If you aren't related or married, then you aren't close enough to see them. Society changes a lot too and more and more people don't care so much about biological family bonds or marriage anymore, I think.

so the most important benefit someone could get from a marriage, according to you, is just financial support? so, let me ask about this financial advantage, is it ONLY one benefit from marriage? i'm sure you aware about another benefits of marriage but why you put emphasize to this financial advantage of a marriage? that's my question. i can give you some of my thoughts for the reason why you highlighted the financial advantage among many benefits but i want to know your answer maybe you can give me something different than what i already have on my mind.

Oct 5, 2019 8:29 PM

#75

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

I don't find marriage to be necessary anymore but I have no issues with people doing it.
Divorce is perfectly fine and in some situations better. All too often we hear people say, "I stayed because of the kids" but how much good are you really doing them when you argue all the time. Children are not stupid and can feel animosity just as well as an adult. Now there are obviously many other reasons why someone would/should get divorced. It really shouldn't have the stigma attached to it as it does.

Oct 5, 2019 10:08 PM

#76

vikty

Offline

May 2012

235

nym_ said:
there are many profits from marriage. first, the surety feeling. you don't fall to guessing things or suspicious of your partner behavior when you're not around.

Lol what???? There are shit tons of doubtful and jealous married people and iirc around 40-50% of married people cheat. People aren't loyal by default just because they're married.

Marriage does not improve your love or bond, only gives you legal rights. Your relationship can be awful or amazing with a ring or without.

Oct 5, 2019 11:15 PM

#77

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

vikty said:

nym_ said:
there are many profits from marriage. first, the surety feeling. you don't fall to guessing things or suspicious of your partner behavior when you're not around.

Lol what???? There are shit tons of doubtful and jealous married people and iirc around 40-50% of married people cheat. People aren't loyal by default just because they're married.

Marriage does not improve your love or bond, only gives you legal rights. Your relationship can be awful or amazing with a ring or without.

yep, i understand that there are married people out there who cheats on their partner. but does that automatically make marriage a bad thing? that's my only question since the beginning of this thread. if i killed someone with a kitchen knife, which one to blame, me or the kitchen knife? if i built a house. then, at one time, a typhoon came and wrecked the house, which one to blame, me, the house or the typhoon? if these examples are still not enough for you to understand the point i want to make, then i don't know what else i could do.

like i said, whether it improves or decreases your love or bond, all depend on you two. one thing for sure, a marriage changes you. and a change could be good or bad depend on how you react to it.

Oct 5, 2019 11:21 PM

#78

traed

Online

Mar 2008

46833

I think marriage as a legal entity should be abolished and broken up into individual components.

I love love even though it's absense and rejection is among the most painful things. I don't think love needs formal institutions. It can be a nice gesture though but because of how many bad relationships and divorces it feels it has lost a lot of it's meaning. Of course divorce is necessary though.

Oct 6, 2019 1:03 AM

#79

vikty

Offline

May 2012

235

nym_ said:
yep, i understand that there are married people out there who cheats on their partner. but does that automatically make marriage a bad thing? that's my only question since the beginning of this thread. if i killed someone with a kitchen knife, which one to blame, me or the kitchen knife?

Um no. I never said it makes marriage a bad thing lol. I simply stated marriage in itself doesnt stop anyone from cheating. That's all. You seemed to imply marriage gives you "proof" your partner wont cheat which is obviously b.s.

Oct 6, 2019 1:04 AM

#80

iLoveWater

Offline

Jan 2019

442

Originally marriage was just dedicating yourself to one person and having a ceremony. Having a ceremony is something I don't care about at all. Its all useless to me. You can be dedicated to someone without putting a ring on them. Divorce? I see Divorce as a failure. The couple failed to choose the right person.

> See Animes I Recommend? <+PRAISE <3 AQUA+> See Waifu Worthy Girls? <

Oct 6, 2019 1:10 AM

#81

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

nym_ said:

maneki said:
What the...? This comparison is insane. What.
Also I don't know how your friend circle looks like, but we talk often about our relationships and not only once before you'd get married. If you have a specific thought or idea, you just tell them.

I don't think you understood my statement at all. I just never had been in love in the same way other people are. That's just a fact for me and that doesn't mean at all I never loved them, but I don't wear pink glasses for that reason.

my argument about Hitler's love was to counter your argument "i'm surely not blinded by love". i don't have any problem with you "never fell in love in that typical or a normal way" cuz i accept that there are many ways someone fall in love. so my argument was trying to tell you "even the most unromantic man can be blinded by love once he fell in". so when you said "i'm SURELY not blinded by love", it felt kinda too idealistic to me.

It's realistic, because I know me and how my mind works? I already told you I'm not behaving or can't behave like that.

nym_ said:
my siblings and parents, i only have 2 close friends and just small circle of acquaintances or colleagues. to my close friends, we don't talk "often" about our relationship cuz we keep private things stay private but would gladly discuss about it if one of us need an advice. though i don't know if they also feel the same but from the last 12 years of friendship, i get the feeling that we have similar perspective about how we want to talk about our personal issues.

See, it's just different. I don't see a reason why private things like that should stay private.

nym_ said:
again i say, i don't have any problem with the way you fall in love. i accept that there are so many ways someone could fall in love or to express their love and i don't have any problem with that. my problem is about a marriage. "should one who doesn't love each other get married?" i don't ask about the possibility cuz know it's very possible for such thing to happen. what i ask is should we let it to happen, logically-speaking?

mew said:
My ex since it didn't work out, but I wouldn't it call a fully a relationship either. It was more like a friendship in my eyes, where I tried being on an intimate level with. Because I actually do love him, but I just don't want to sleep with men, less than with a woman at least. And there it's also not a must. This should explain the other topic enough. It's not about a culture, you're physically unable to or you have to overcome yourself a lot. That's an awful feeling, for him and me. I would have stayed with him otherwise / maybe, because he also wanted the same things all in all, including having children someday.

first let me make things clear here. this "ex" is this refer to ex-hubby or ex-bf/ex-gf? cuz there's a different between the two. i'm sorry if i might seems aggressive. i really don't wanna pry about your private life but since you brought this into the table so i had to slice 'em up. if you don't wanna we can skip this part and focus on continuing another kind of relationship you brought up.

Exboyfriend. And no, there is no difference between an ex-partner, married or not.

nym_ said:

maneki said:
Just every couple that isn't married.

I don't know, why consenting adults should get financial profit from the state for the mere fact that they are consenting adults with a paper in their hand. I can't think of another reason than holding up conservative values.
If they become parents, then they should get the financial support, since their monthly wage must feed more people from now on. Fimancial support shouldn't be available for married couples without any kids.

That's actually the case here and that's an important factor why people still get married: Tax relief. You'll get into another tax class.
Not out of endless, great love. You could stay together without getting married, if it weren't for your tax class and some other laws.

If your partner gets involved in an accident, you're only allowed to visit them in hospital as their official spouse. It would be so easy to fill out a paper, where you could decide who's allowed to visit you in an emergency case like this. You could fill in best friends to your partner you're not married to, everyone who is close to you from your point of view, not the state's point of view. The law literally tells you then: If you aren't related or married, then you aren't close enough to see them. Society changes a lot too and more and more people don't care so much about biological family bonds or marriage anymore, I think.

so the most important benefit someone could get from a marriage, according to you, is just financial support? so, let me ask about this financial advantage, is it ONLY one benefit from marriage? i'm sure you aware about another benefits of marriage but why you put emphasize to this financial advantage of a marriage? that's my question. i can give you some of my thoughts for the reason why you highlighted the financial advantage among many benefits but i want to know your answer maybe you can give me something different than what i already have on my mind.

Because the financial support and being able to visit them in case of an accident are the only advantages.

nym_ said:

vikty said:

Lol what???? There are shit tons of doubtful and jealous married people and iirc around 40-50% of married people cheat. People aren't loyal by default just because they're married.

Marriage does not improve your love or bond, only gives you legal rights. Your relationship can be awful or amazing with a ring or without.

yep, i understand that there are married people out there who cheats on their partner. but does that automatically make marriage a bad thing? that's my only question since the beginning of this thread. if i killed someone with a kitchen knife, which one to blame, me or the kitchen knife? if i built a house. then, at one time, a typhoon came and wrecked the house, which one to blame, me, the house or the typhoon? if these examples are still not enough for you to understand the point i want to make, then i don't know what else i could do.

like i said, whether it improves or decreases your love or bond, all depend on you two. one thing for sure, a marriage changes you. and a change could be good or bad depend on how you react to it.

The thing is: If you are feeling like they could cheat on you, when you are not around, you already have a problem and marriage won't solve that.

149597871 said:
Well, the wedding is a pure scam, you can buy a house in many countries for that amount of money. You are also scamming the people you invited by requiring them to bring a few hundred dollars each as a gift to compensate for the wedding industry scamming you.

I have mixed feelings about marriage itself though.

Also this.

removed-userOct 6, 2019 1:16 AM

Oct 6, 2019 1:20 AM

#82

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

vikty said:

nym_ said:
yep, i understand that there are married people out there who cheats on their partner. but does that automatically make marriage a bad thing? that's my only question since the beginning of this thread. if i killed someone with a kitchen knife, which one to blame, me or the kitchen knife?

Um no. I never said it makes marriage a bad thing lol. I simply stated marriage in itself doesnt stop anyone from cheating. That's all. You seemed to imply marriage gives you "proof" your partner wont cheat which is obviously b.s.

i'm glad you understand. and i never said marriage negates cheating, the possibility is always there. the strange thing is why would one cheat if she/he truly believe that the person she/he's married to is the one for her/him? this is what i can't understand. cuz you would only marry someone who you think the one for you right? no one would marry a stranger. so it's logical to think that before you marry someone you must already know about them well, about their behaviors/habits/attitudes and another personal infos. cuz marriage is almost impossible to happen when both party doesn't know about each other.

Oct 6, 2019 2:10 AM

#83

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

my argument about Hitler's love was to counter your argument "i'm surely not blinded by love". i don't have any problem with you "never fell in love in that typical or a normal way" cuz i accept that there are many ways someone fall in love. so my argument was trying to tell you "even the most unromantic man can be blinded by love once he fell in". so when you said "i'm SURELY not blinded by love", it felt kinda too idealistic to me.

It's realistic, because I know me and how my mind works? I already told you I'm not behaving or can't behave like that.

i see. hmmm, i don't think i have any problem with that tbh.

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:
my siblings and parents, i only have 2 close friends and just small circle of acquaintances or colleagues. to my close friends, we don't talk "often" about our relationship cuz we keep private things stay private but would gladly discuss about it if one of us need an advice. though i don't know if they also feel the same but from the last 12 years of friendship, i get the feeling that we have similar perspective about how we want to talk about our personal issues.

See, it's just different. I don't see a reason why private things like that should stay private.

oh well, idk, i just think that talking "often" to your friends about your relationship is kinda hard to believe. cuz everyone have many problems in life beside their relationship problems, right? so, idk, i can't imagine that your friends want to hear or want to talk about their relationship problem often tbh. i mean, it is possible ofc but it's almost magical to me. anyway, you're one of lucky person if you have such a caring friends who want to talk about relationship often. i mean, it must be a dream-like friendship.

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:
again i say, i don't have any problem with the way you fall in love. i accept that there are so many ways someone could fall in love or to express their love and i don't have any problem with that. my problem is about a marriage. "should one who doesn't love each other get married?" i don't ask about the possibility cuz know it's very possible for such thing to happen. what i ask is should we let it to happen, logically-speaking?

first let me make things clear here. this "ex" is this refer to ex-hubby or ex-bf/ex-gf? cuz there's a different between the two. i'm sorry if i might seems aggressive. i really don't wanna pry about your private life but since you brought this into the table so i had to slice 'em up. if you don't wanna we can skip this part and focus on continuing another kind of relationship you brought up.

Exboyfriend. And no, there is no difference between an ex-partner, married or not.

i see. let me ask something. do you think marriage change someone? beside their financial condition cuz we have agreed on that matter in the fourth quote.

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

so the most important benefit someone could get from a marriage, according to you, is just financial support? so, let me ask about this financial advantage, is it ONLY one benefit from marriage? i'm sure you aware about another benefits of marriage but why you put emphasize to this financial advantage of a marriage? that's my question. i can give you some of my thoughts for the reason why you highlighted the financial advantage among many benefits but i want to know your answer maybe you can give me something different than what i already have on my mind.

Because the financial support and being able to visit them in case of an accident are the only advantages.

let me repeat the question once again. on your mind, financial support is the ONLY advantage you could get from a marriage? no emotional or spiritual or sexual or mental support whatsoever? i just want to really really really make sure about how marriage is in your perspective.

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

yep, i understand that there are married people out there who cheats on their partner. but does that automatically make marriage a bad thing? that's my only question since the beginning of this thread. if i killed someone with a kitchen knife, which one to blame, me or the kitchen knife? if i built a house. then, at one time, a typhoon came and wrecked the house, which one to blame, me, the house or the typhoon? if these examples are still not enough for you to understand the point i want to make, then i don't know what else i could do.

like i said, whether it improves or decreases your love or bond, all depend on you two. one thing for sure, a marriage changes you. and a change could be good or bad depend on how you react to it.

The thing is: If you are feeling like they could cheat on you, when you are not around, you already have a problem and marriage won't solve that.

and the thing is: if you're married but the feeling still exist within you, then your intention to marry your partner is questionable. cuz as long as your intention is bad, no matter how good something is, it will only give you a bad result.

Maneki-Mew said:

149597871 said:
Well, the wedding is a pure scam, you can buy a house in many countries for that amount of money. You are also scamming the people you invited by requiring them to bring a few hundred dollars each as a gift to compensate for the wedding industry scamming you.

I have mixed feelings about marriage itself though.

Also this.

you forgot about one crucial thing. marriage ceremony is vary from one society to another, from one place to another place. a marriage in a city would have a different ritual ceremony with a marriage in a village. a marriage ceremony in France is different with the one in Japan and i don't have any problem with the differences tbh. and i also don't have any problem with celebrating a marriage cuz for some people, marriage is a crucial moment in their life. it's no different when you graduate from school you want to celebrate the moment, right? so it's up to them how much money they want to spend to celebrate the day. nothing bad with it though

Oct 6, 2019 3:05 AM

#84

Freshell

Offline

May 2019

1850

Marriage and divorce are a-okay. It's having kids and paying child support that's scary. Sometimes I want to do the snip snip just to avoid that possibility but deep down I want to raise kids.

Oct 6, 2019 3:42 AM

#85

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:

It's realistic, because I know me and how my mind works? I already told you I'm not behaving or can't behave like that.

i see. hmmm, i don't think i have any problem with that tbh.

Maneki-Mew said:

See, it's just different. I don't see a reason why private things like that should stay private.

oh well, idk, i just think that talking "often" to your friends about your relationship is kinda hard to believe. cuz everyone have many problems in life beside their relationship problems, right? so, idk, i can't imagine that your friends want to hear or want to talk about their relationship problem often tbh. i mean, it is possible ofc but it's almost magical to me. anyway, you're one of lucky person if you have such a caring friends who want to talk about relationship often. i mean, it must be a dream-like friendship.

That surprises me a little, since it's normal to me. The partner of everyone is also a fix part and if it's nothing too private, like really going into detail or something they shouldn't know, then we talk about that normally with the partner present too.

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:

Exboyfriend. And no, there is no difference between an ex-partner, married or not.

i see. let me ask something. do you think marriage change someone? beside their financial condition cuz we have agreed on that matter in the fourth quote.

I wouldn't think so. I'll still not enough into guys to sleep with him regularly, he would still be disappointed about that. I don't know how this should change, just could have told him that he could have sleep with another female friend.
But none of this stuff would have magically disappeared, because of marriage.

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:

Because the financial support and being able to visit them in case of an accident are the only advantages.

let me repeat the question once again. on your mind, financial support is the ONLY advantage you could get from a marriage? no emotional or spiritual or sexual or mental support whatsoever? i just want to really really really make sure about how marriage is in your perspective.

Well yes, that's my perspective. A little ceremony might be beautiful, but if you want to register your relationship in some ways, then you might doing it, because of stuff that is related to the laws in your country.

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:

The thing is: If you are feeling like they could cheat on you, when you are not around, you already have a problem and marriage won't solve that.

and the thing is: if you're married but the feeling still exist within you, then your intention to marry your partner is questionable. cuz as long as your intention is bad, no matter how good something is, it will only give you a bad result.

The marriage won't change the feeling. Maybe you might feel like that the first time, because the joy is bigger than your jealousy, but it definitely will come back to you.

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:

Also this.

you forgot about one crucial thing. marriage ceremony is vary from one society to another, from one place to another place. a marriage in a city would have a different ritual ceremony with a marriage in a village. a marriage ceremony in France is different with the one in Japan and i don't have any problem with the differences tbh. and i also don't have any problem with celebrating a marriage cuz for some people, marriage is a crucial moment in their life. it's no different when you graduate from school you want to celebrate the moment, right? so it's up to them how much money they want to spend to celebrate the day. nothing bad with it though

No, I mean, of course I know that, but most weddings I visited were awful. The couple feels like they are socially forced to invite people they don't even like or know well and they paid a huge amount of money they didn't want to spend.

It's okay, if the marriage for other people is a crucial moment, but from my experience: Couples with a super pompous wedding will divorce before other couples, because the wedding is not the only time, when they hold up a beautiful facade for their environment to make look their relationship perfect.
If you need to make your relationship or your wedding ceremony looking perfect, then because either you are under a lot of pressure of a traditional environment OR you want to hide the truth that it's not perfect OR both.

removed-userOct 6, 2019 3:45 AM

Oct 6, 2019 4:19 AM

#86

Preachee

Offline

Dec 2018

2154

To me, and as viewed by my culture which I certainly agree, marriage is indispensable. And yes, that would mean we would have to acknowledge the share of the spouses, the money in order to proficiently raise kids as well as obtain a dwelling, and the hustle-bustle of utmost tiresome to simultaneously work and take care of the family.

And about divorce, it is unfortunate, but isn't seen to be prohibited or something erroneous. Still, after marriage, this is what everyone attempts their best to steer clear of. It might not be detrimental, but it is deplorable, at least to your parents or even worse if you've already had children.

. . .

Oct 6, 2019 4:40 AM

#87

samuraieyebrow

Offline

Feb 2019

102

Marriage is unnecessary. I don't really have an opinion on it. If you love someone, you shouldn't need some ceremony to prove it. I don't dislike marriage, but I see no reason to get married.

As for divorce, sometimes it is necessary. Relationships can get toxic, and abusive if you stay with someone even when you hate each other.

No

Oct 6, 2019 5:14 AM

#88

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

i see. hmmm, i don't think i have any problem with that tbh.

oh well, idk, i just think that talking "often" to your friends about your relationship is kinda hard to believe. cuz everyone have many problems in life beside their relationship problems, right? so, idk, i can't imagine that your friends want to hear or want to talk about their relationship problem often tbh. i mean, it is possible ofc but it's almost magical to me. anyway, you're one of lucky person if you have such a caring friends who want to talk about relationship often. i mean, it must be a dream-like friendship.

That surprises me a little, since it's normal to me. The partner of everyone is also a fix part and if it's nothing too private, like really going into detail or something they shouldn't know, then we talk about that normally with the partner present too.

that's why i said you're a trusting person according to my perspective and i think you think me as someone more private than you. i don't have any problems with that though. oh well, have to admit that you're better at making friends than me, there are more acquaintances/colleagues than friends on my circle tbh. hmmm, i think we don't have differences about this part anymore, right? so this case is solved.

[quote=Maneki-Mew message=58473383][quote=nym_]

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

my argument about Hitler's love was to counter your argument "i'm surely not blinded by love". i don't have any problem with you "never fell in love in that typical or a normal way" cuz i accept that there are many ways someone fall in love. so my argument was trying to tell you "even the most unromantic man can be blinded by love once he fell in". so when you said "i'm SURELY not blinded by love", it felt kinda too idealistic to me.

It's realistic, because I know me and how my mind works? I already told you I'm not behaving or can't behave like that.

i see. hmmm, i don't think i have any problem with that tbh.

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

i see. let me ask something. do you think marriage change someone? beside their financial condition cuz we have agreed on that matter in the fourth quote.

I wouldn't think so. I'll still not enough into guys to sleep with him regularly, he would still be disappointed about that. I don't know how this should change, just could have told him that he could have sleep with another female friend.
But none of this stuff would have magically disappeared, because of marriage.

oh well, then i think it's not the time yet for you to marry your partner.

well, i think when you love someone, you want that person to be happy, right? and if you do something that make the person you love unhappy, you wouldn't do it. the same to them. if that person truly love you, then they would never do things that make you unhappy, right? this is what people usually called a "connection" or an "understanding". cuz when you love someone you'd naturally try to conform or to synchronize your life with your loved one. this is one sign of love. and this is something natural meaning everyone who fall in love would always show these sign.

what i'd say next is just my opinion so don't put it into heart, okay? from what you explained so far, i just get the feeling that your feeling for him is based on sexual drive more than emotional connection. i don't say that it's bad though but a marriage is not just about sexuality. i think now i can understand why do you see marriage like that. but oh well, who am i to force you to change? i just hope you get whatever you want from your relationship.

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

and the thing is: if you're married but the feeling still exist within you, then your intention to marry your partner is questionable. cuz as long as your intention is bad, no matter how good something is, it will only give you a bad result.

The marriage won't change the feeling. Maybe you might feel like that the first time, because the joy is bigger than your jealousy, but it definitely will come back to you.

i respect your perspective. i can't say anything anymore. i just want to ask one thing. if it's possible for jealousy to come back, it's also possible for the joy to do the same, right?

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

you forgot about one crucial thing. marriage ceremony is vary from one society to another, from one place to another place. a marriage in a city would have a different ritual ceremony with a marriage in a village. a marriage ceremony in France is different with the one in Japan and i don't have any problem with the differences tbh. and i also don't have any problem with celebrating a marriage cuz for some people, marriage is a crucial moment in their life. it's no different when you graduate from school you want to celebrate the moment, right? so it's up to them how much money they want to spend to celebrate the day. nothing bad with it though

No, I mean, of course I know that, but most weddings I visited were awful. The couple feels like they are socially forced to invite people they don't even like or know well and they paid a huge amount of money they didn't want to spend.

It's okay, if the marriage for other people is a crucial moment, but from my experience: Couples with a super pompous wedding will divorce before other couples, because the wedding is not the only time, when they hold up a beautiful facade for their environment to make look their relationship perfect.
If you need to make your relationship or your wedding ceremony looking perfect, then because either you are under a lot of pressure of a traditional environment OR you want to hide the truth that it's not perfect OR both.

i'm sure they had thought about their wedding plan thoroughly and i'm sure they must want the best for their wedding. i mean, everyone must want the important moment in their life to be the best moment to remember, right? like when you plan for a holiday with your partner you want to have the best holiday experience, the best place, the best travel agency, etc.

i'd say all depends on the intention and how they define the wedding itself. there are people who think that the wedding is like a parade, there are also people who think the wedding is unnecessary and should not be held and so on. and i think there's no real basis for relating the wedding celebration with the chance of getting divorce.

Oct 6, 2019 5:28 AM

#89

Offline

Oct 2018

1913

A very old friend of mine got married just to have someone by her side, she'd do all the chores and what not. It upset me to know she did this stupid move not considering that he could go looking for someone else and cheat on her which he did anyway and she put up with it until the other woman got her two daughters with food poisoning. It amazed me to know that that's what it took for her to split. Didn't know loneliness after a certain period of time could actually cause you to get married to a total stranger and having that said stranger supposedly agree by having ya do/pay everything within the marriage itself desu ne.~☆♡

サディスティックな考え
"JUST KILL ME."
サディスティックマインド

Oct 6, 2019 11:06 AM

#90

glemaraille

Offline

Aug 2017

556

To me, marriage is just that — a religious & a cultural obligation. You have to do it because the society and your religion tells you to. Add to the fact, asians are much more taditional regarding such matters. So it doesn't really matter if I find someone that I would like to marry or not. At one point in my life, I would be obliged to do it anyways.

Oct 6, 2019 11:13 AM

#91

Veronin

Offline

Feb 2008

4350

Well, MAL is filled with incels which is why people who dislike marriage are overwhelmingly louder than the normal people who don't.

Oct 6, 2019 1:25 PM

#92

fendas123

Offline

May 2016

755

Marriage is pointless. Remove legal marriage.

Marriage is bad. Don't get married.

Oct 6, 2019 2:27 PM

#93

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

nym_ said:
that's why i said you're a trusting person according to my perspective and i think you think me as someone more private than you. i don't have any problems with that though. oh well, have to admit that you're better at making friends than me, there are more acquaintances/colleagues than friends on my circle tbh. hmmm, i think we don't have differences about this part anymore, right? so this case is solved.

Okay then.
It's not like there is so much important stuff that others shouldn't know.

nym_ said:

Maneki-Mew said:
I wouldn't think so. I'll still not enough into guys to sleep with him regularly, he would still be disappointed about that. I don't know how this should change, just could have told him that he could have sleep with another female friend.
But none of this stuff would have magically disappeared, because of marriage.

oh well, then i think it's not the time yet for you to marry your partner.

well, i think when you love someone, you want that person to be happy, right? and if you do something that make the person you love unhappy, you wouldn't do it. the same to them. if that person truly love you, then they would never do things that make you unhappy, right? this is what people usually called a "connection" or an "understanding". cuz when you love someone you'd naturally try to conform or to synchronize your life with your loved one. this is one sign of love. and this is something natural meaning everyone who fall in love would always show these sign.

That's why I told him very soon that it doesn't make sense, since it's unfair. I don't know why I should torture a straight guy with regular sex drive being with me his whole life.

nym_ said:
what i'd say next is just my opinion so don't put it into heart, okay? from what you explained so far, i just get the feeling that your feeling for him is based on sexual drive more than emotional connection. i don't say that it's bad though but a marriage is not just about sexuality. i think now i can understand why do you see marriage like that. but oh well, who am i to force you to change? i just hope you get whatever you want from your relationship.

I don't, but that's completely wrong and missing the point. I don't even know how you could read it like that, tbh? That was the entire point: I didn't want to sleep with him, because I'm not straight or bisexual. I just loved him or liked him very much.

Sorry, I had to! :D

nym_ said:
i'm sure they had thought about their wedding plan thoroughly and i'm sure they must want the best for their wedding. i mean, everyone must want the important moment in their life to be the best moment to remember, right? like when you plan for a holiday with your partner you want to have the best holiday experience, the best place, the best travel agency, etc.

i'd say all depends on the intention and how they define the wedding itself. there are people who think that the wedding is like a parade, there are also people who think the wedding is unnecessary and should not be held and so on. and i think there's no real basis for relating the wedding celebration with the chance of getting divorce.

And everything will be a fairytale, until you look at your bank account after your first pink wedding glasses are gone.
I know one of my former class mates, she and her husband had that typical HUGE wedding. And it even had been beautiful for them too, but then they didn't cry, because it was beautiful. They cried because they had been poorer by over 6.000 €, after their parents and co had supported them. Because of one single day. Everyone else you know well has to pay too.
It's just these people are a victim of a scamming wedding industry, if they aren't insanely rich and won't care too much for over 6.000 €.
Do you know how many beautiful vacations you could have with that amount of money? Especially if you know how travel way, way cheaper than staying at luxurious five star hotels. Since, you guessed it, travel agencies and typical travel culture is scamming or shit too IMO.

removed-userOct 6, 2019 4:38 PM

Oct 6, 2019 2:41 PM

#94

MasterNeutral

Offline

Aug 2016

1083

I think marriage is cool definitely something I'll be going for one day, and divorce can sometimes be necessary, if it just ain't workin out for you guys why suffer through a relationship that isn't going to work? There are other fish in the sea.

↓ Play AMQ ↓

Oct 6, 2019 9:00 PM

#95

Atleastimclose_

Offline

May 2019

22

I would marry my anime wife, and never divorce her

anime-->eat-->Sleep-->repeat

Oct 6, 2019 9:52 PM

#96

unn

Offline

Oct 2014

2055

i guess marriage is an obvious conclusion for a couple once you've been together long enough. there's a lot of financial incentive to get married in the US if you plan on being with your SO for the rest of your life (best case scenario). i'm not really into the whole wedding culture though so i'd highly prefer something small, if not just going right down to a courthouse and signing some paperwork to do it. divorce sucks so i'd like to sign some prenups so neither us try to snake each other.

Oct 6, 2019 10:40 PM

#97

Offline

Mar 2014

1399

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:

oh well, then i think it's not the time yet for you to marry your partner.

well, i think when you love someone, you want that person to be happy, right? and if you do something that make the person you love unhappy, you wouldn't do it. the same to them. if that person truly love you, then they would never do things that make you unhappy, right? this is what people usually called a "connection" or an "understanding". cuz when you love someone you'd naturally try to conform or to synchronize your life with your loved one. this is one sign of love. and this is something natural meaning everyone who fall in love would always show these sign.

That's why I told him very soon that it doesn't make sense, since it's unfair. I don't know why I should torture a straight guy with regular sex drive being with me his whole life.

well, if i say, "that's one proof of love can blind you" would you agree with me?

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:
what i'd say next is just my opinion so don't put it into heart, okay? from what you explained so far, i just get the feeling that your feeling for him is based on sexual drive more than emotional connection. i don't say that it's bad though but a marriage is not just about sexuality. i think now i can understand why do you see marriage like that. but oh well, who am i to force you to change? i just hope you get whatever you want from your relationship.

I don't, but that's completely wrong and missing the point. I don't even know how you could read it like that, tbh? That was the entire point: I didn't want to sleep with him, because I'm not straight or bisexual. I just loved him or liked him very much.

Sorry, I had to! :D

ah, hahaha yea yea i agree with you on that xD just re-read all your post again and i admit i missed the point there, lol xD i'm sorry my bad -___-

oh well, like my previous statement above, i think that's just one of many way someone expressing their love. there are people who are too desperate for love and people who are too ignorant of love, right?

Maneki-Mew said:

nym_ said:
i'm sure they had thought about their wedding plan thoroughly and i'm sure they must want the best for their wedding. i mean, everyone must want the important moment in their life to be the best moment to remember, right? like when you plan for a holiday with your partner you want to have the best holiday experience, the best place, the best travel agency, etc.

i'd say all depends on the intention and how they define the wedding itself. there are people who think that the wedding is like a parade, there are also people who think the wedding is unnecessary and should not be held and so on. and i think there's no real basis for relating the wedding celebration with the chance of getting divorce.

And everything will be a fairytale, until you look at your bank account after your first pink wedding glasses are gone.
I know one of my former class mates, she and her husband had that typical HUGE wedding. And it even had been beautiful for them too, but then they didn't cry, because it was beautiful. They cried because they had been poorer by over 6.000 €, after their parents and co had supported them. Because of one single day. Everyone else you know well has to pay too.
It's just these people are a victim of a scamming wedding industry, if they aren't insanely rich and won't care too much for over 6.000 €.
Do you know how many beautiful vacations you could have with that amount of money? Especially if you know how travel way, way cheaper than staying at luxurious five star hotels. Since, you guessed it, travel agencies and typical travel culture is scamming or shit too IMO.

i understand what you want to say and actually i agree with you. but again, we can only give them our advice or recommendations, the rights to decide is on their own hands and so with the consequence of taking such decision.

wedding industry is just part of economic activities. in economy, culture is one of many aspects on society that you can use to gain profit. is it wrong to use culture to gain profit? scams are bad but also useful in a way, it help us think thoroughly. i mean, would you agree if i say, "most victims of scam are people who accepts things offered to them without trying to clarify it further"?

one thing i want to make clear here, wedding ceremonies has little to no effect to your marriage life. marriage is not just about celebrating your wedding or having kids or receiving financial support, etc. i won't say it's the same for everyone but from my learning of religious books (cuz marriage concept came from religious teachings given to humankind, creatures except humans doesn't know or has a concept about marriage, only reproduction) so far, marriage is one of many means to gain happiness in life. that's why i agreed about marriage is like a "sanctuary" cuz i would be happy when i am in such place.

yknow what, i think both you and i don't have any problem with marriage. in my opinion, our problem lies in divorce. does divorce equal to failed marriage? that's the problem.

Nym_Oct 6, 2019 10:51 PM

Oct 6, 2019 10:46 PM

#98

NostalgiaGoddess

Offline

Apr 2018

171

Well, I do think that people should be careful in who they choose to marry. I also wish marriage wasn't seen as an obligation.

As for divorce, I honestly prefer it over being stuck in a shitty marriage. It especially sucks seeing your parents constantly fight each other as a child.

Oct 7, 2019 7:34 AM

#99

Offline

Oct 2018

1913

Would sure suck if ya couldn't divorce twice.

サディスティックな考え
"JUST KILL ME."
サディスティックマインド

Oct 7, 2019 8:11 AM

#100