How Do You View Marriage/Divorce Desu?~☆♡

nym_ said:
someone gave me a great answer when i asked the same question to her and i agree with her answer.

she said something like this: "the marriage is like a sanctuary, where one can be true to their partner. a place where there is nothing hidden for the people inside."

there are many profits from marriage. first, the surety feeling. you don't fall to guessing things or suspicious of your partner behavior when you're not around. second, the teamwork benefit. "2 minds are better than one", remember? it's easier to find a proper solution for a problem. third, the connection. marriage connects your circle with your partner's circle. as you know, in life, we have to live within a "circle" or group of people. so the combination of you and your partner's making your life bigger and wider.

Railey2 said:
What if your husband beats you and cheats on you with that younger woman from the office?
What if your wife emotionally abuses you and cheats on you with your neighbor?

Railey2 said:
What if your husband beats you and cheats on you with that younger woman from the office?
What if your wife emotionally abuses you and cheats on you with your neighbor?

Those things can still be part of a marriage, so is marriage really a sanctuary?
Imo all marriage is, is a cultural institution that some people attach a lot of meaning to while others don't. Apparently your friend is one of the people that attach all the meaning to it, kind of like some people attach a lot of meaning to Christmas while to others its just another day.

nym_ said:
if your partner did that, then he/she was not being true to you. and that's the importance of your close friends or family opinion about your partner before decide to marry them. cuz your eyes might be blinded by your love of your partner that you overlooked something important about him/her. i think the problem is that many young people often neglect this. many of them don't consult to their close friends or family before holding a marriage.

someone cheat their partner cuz many reasons but the basic reason is the lack of trust. cuz you don't trust your partner can give you satisfaction more than that younger woman from the office or your neighbor might give to you, that's the reason why you cheat on your partner, right?

well, i just wanna say, if we compare between the benefits and the losses of marriage, there are more benefits than losses. and i already showed you 3 of the benefits of marriage.

Sphinxter said:
In the Netherlands the government has systemically removed those things over the decades and there's almost nothing left now, there are only disadvantages and the man who gets married is a fool and a labelfag.

Yarub said:
You'd have to draw a line as to what type of people you choose to address. I think it's safe to say that most marriages come out either fine, or end up in a mutual civilised request for a divorce. People who abide by social morals (i.e marriage) and proceed to bastardize the relationship by cheating or abusing are just bad people overall, and you'd notice it almost immediately. The ones in the wrong are those who continue living with the false belief that "everything will be better" and keep complaining about how their life sucks.

An easy way to figure out if your significant other might be that type of person is ask a few open questions: What am I to you, what is this marriage to you, and what do you plan to sacrifice in your life (and mine) for this whole thing to work out? A cheesy reply would indicate melodrama. Not directly answering the question indicates weak-personality that can easily be molded. A straight forward answer is the one you're looking for. Then hope for the best to come out of your judgement.

Yarub said:
Meaning, if you have a child out of wedlock, he still shall be given the name of his father, even though there is no legal obligation for that to happen? or is he be named after some famous Dutch footballer?

Railey2 said:
Call me cynical, but in my eyes most marriages are pretty dysfunctional. Just because two people don't divorce doesn't mean they're happy, and the divorce rate is already at 50%, so go figure.

Divorces rarely are completely mutually felt, there's often one side that still wants to try while the other wants to get the fuck out, and if BOTH sides want to get the fuck out then chances are that it was absolutely awful before they got to that point.

I dunno man. Marriage as a sanctuary? I really wish I could see it that way, but it's not happening.


But what you said is good advice for people that try to make it work. Communication is the most important thing.

Sphinxter said:
Depends on how one arranged it.

When no arrangements are made, a child born out wedlock shall have the last name of the person that delivered the child by default; the parties that are the legal parent of this child (a maximum of 4) may come to an agreement to change this default to that of any of the other three; if they cannot come to such an agreement unanimously then the default wins.

However these parties may also enter into a contract at any point that stipulates this which is legally binding.

In the case of a child being born in wedlock, by default it shall have the last name of whomever the one giving birth to it is married to, regardless of biological relationship to the child; this again can similarly be altered by either unanimous decision or similar contracts established beforehand.

Railey2 said:
All the 3 benefits you mentioned aren't exclusive or inherent to marriage.
It's perfectly possible to be paranoid in a marriage, it's perfectly possible to work against each other in a marriage, it's perfectly possible to be detached from your circle of friends even though you're married.

Yarub said:

And you see, that's the beauty of religion; it brings non-concordant people together. I cannot name one single person I know that married and ended his marriage in a divorce before he met his end, even though both parties can greatly benefit from having one if they were dissatisfied.

Railey2 said:
That's a bad thing, you realize that right? Quite a terrible thing actually, lol.

And yeah, no shit people aren't gonna get divorced if society punishes you for it. I wouldn't divorce either. I'd have fun with the rest of my miserable life and a wife that I hate, I guess.

Yarub said:
It can be both bad and beautiful. Love is dispensable, hate is not. this is not from the new Joker movie I swear. But anyway, I don't really see a specific scenario where x and y are two normal people who don't fancy each other that much, want to really REALLY get away from each other. Like I said, frivolous pursuits.

Actually, if you divorce, you get a shit ton of benefits that outweigh the possible "societal rampage" (even though there isn't much of that). If you're a woman, you get a shit ton of money and can marry another person freely. If you're a man, well, tough luck, you don't really gain much except for freedom of acquaintance. People stay in miserable lives because they don't know how to solve their problems, not because marriage or society is bad

nym_ said:

there are many profits from marriage. first, the surety feeling. you don't fall to guessing things or suspicious of your partner behavior when you're not around.

Kosmonaut said:
When one marries, does one suddenly stop being jealous? I seriously can't see from where you concluded that there's no jealousy or insecurity in marriages. If someone is jealous, controlling or insecure, it won't be a piece of paper that will stop them from being so.

Railey2 said:
A society that keeps people trapped in marriages is absolutely bad on every conceivable level.

A society that calls normal sexual urges "frivolous" is another matter, but yeah.. Anyway, normal people have fights, and fights can escalate. Badly. If you can't see that happening, I'd say you need more experience :p

Yarub said:
Only one thing is to be said: if you wish to conform from the beginning, might as well conform till the end.

These are not particularly the saying of any society. This is what I'm saying. Sexual gratification is frivolous as in if you allow it to hinder your life and control you, then you are a slave to your superfluity, i.e, if you leave your wife and kids just because you aren't satisfied by the outcomes of your own doings is wrong.

Railey2 said:
A society that keeps people trapped in marriages is absolutely bad on every conceivable level.

A society that calls normal sexual urges "frivolous" is another matter, but yeah.. Anyway, normal people have fights, and fights can escalate. Badly. If you can't see that happening, I'd say you need more experience :p



@nym_ you don't get it, I'm saying that "dysfunctional" IS the norm. Married or not, doesn't matter. People are awful at being honest with themselves about their feelings, awful at being honest about them towards others, awful at communicating, and so on. The divorce rates are pushing 50% in many countries and in some countries they are significantly over 50%, which absolutely fits the picture I have of the average person, who doesn't have the skills to permanently keep a relationship healthy and fulfilling. You say that marriage brings all these benefits, but that's really just empty talk. None of the things you listed are exclusive to marriage or inherent qualities of marriage.

I'm not opposed to marriage. I'm opposed to the idea that marriage is some sort of ideal that improves relationships and makes them safer, or a "sanctuary" as you said. Because that's not true. Millions of people are stuck in shitty marriages and can't end them because their minds are poisoned by these aforementioned ideas. As always, it's best to stay realistic. Equating marriage with love isn't romantic, it's dangerous. At the end of the day, a marriage is a communion of two people, and at the end of the day little stops these two people from being awful to each other.

Kosmonaut said:
When one marries, does one suddenly stop being jealous? I seriously can't see from where you concluded that there's no jealousy or insecurity in marriages. If someone is jealous, controlling or insecure, it won't be a piece of paper that will stop them from being so.

And as Railey said, the things you listed as profits of marriage aren't exclusive to marriage, or even guaranteed to happen in marriages.

nym_ said:
one doesn't "suddenly" stop being jealous, the jealousy become less destructive and less violent than when you're unmarried. about insecure feeling, i had answered it before.

Railey2 said:
bro, circumstances can change, especially with something as complicated as a relationship. It's fine to change your mind, whats the point in forcing yourself to be with someone you dislike until you die of old age? "because you might as well"? rip rip rip

Also don't think you can pull a quick one on me here, you called two normal people growing apart and pursuing other sexual interests "frivolous". Never did you mention children.
I agree that stable relationships are better, and that you should definitely put the work to make it last, but man just calling it all frivolous is a bit much don't you think? There are many reasons why someone could choose to exit a relationship/marriage, and not all of them are frivolous. What's frivolous is when you're doing it behind someones back.

And yeah, sexual gratification is just a normal biologically programmed bodily function. Just be responsible about it and you're golden.

Railey2 said:
I don't think my words are reaching you Nym but thats okay.

Your opinion is changing faster than I can keep up with anyway, first marriage was a sanctuary that you said would bring inherent benefits with it, now it's only a tool.

We'll figure it out someday, I'm sure.

Yarub said:
That isn't my point. In my first post, I said "The ones in the wrong are those who continue living with the false belief that "everything will be better" and keep complaining about how their life sucks." as in a purely individually driven thought process, but since you brought societal pressure into the equation, I brushed it off with: if you bothered once, you can bother all the time. Circumstances can change, but society stays pretty much the same in a lifetime.

If you grow apart in mutual agreement to disagree, then it's fine. You argued that most people don't, which is why I replied with the frivolous nature. X and Y can only grow apart if one is melodramatic or the other is a lustful person. If you choose to marry each other, and things go normally, then what even is the nature of the divorce? Certainly nothing normal, if it happens.

Touche to that.

One can touch oneself as a measure of precaution if he be weak-willed enough to cause unnecessary drama by marrying mindlessly. Or just hire a prostitute. Or just don't marry at all.

Kuroko-chan said:
The real problem here is why people still use ''desu'' after something they say. Am I the only one who finds that super cringy?

Maneki-Mew said:

So, if you get divorced after a few years, it's still just "lust"? Come on, that's just pink glasses you wear there.

Some new data about divorce and non-marital breakups contains an unexpected finding, and I think it underscores the fact that we're in the midst of an ongoing evolution in what people want and seek in their romantic relationships. The study, based on a survey of over 2000 heterosexual couples, found that women initiated nearly 70 percent of all divorces. Yet there was no significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by women and men in non-marriage relationships.

How to explain the data? I find that these data are consistent with what I and others have seen clinically. When men and women seek couples therapy and then subsequently divorce; or, when either partner seeks individual therapy about a marriage conflict that ends in divorce, it’s often the woman who expresses more overt conflict and dissatisfaction about the state of the marriage. On the other hand, the man is more likely to report feeling troubled by his wife’s dissatisfaction, but pretty much “OK” with the way things are; he's content to just lope along as time passes.

In contrast, I find that younger couples—who are more likely to form non-marital but committed relationships—experience more egalitarian partnerships to begin with. When their relationships crumble beyond repair, both partners experience that disintegration. Both are equally likely to address it; and part, if it can’t be healed.

These clinical observations are consistent with what the study’s lead author, Michael Rosenfeld, suggests: that women may be more likely to initiate divorces because the married women reported lower levels of relationship quality than married men. In contrast, women and men in non-marital relationships reported equal levels of relationship quality. Rosenfeld said his results support the feminist assertion that some women experience heterosexual marriage as oppressive or uncomfortable.