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Poll: Lord El-Melloi II Sei no Jikenbo: Rail Zeppelin Grace Note Episode 12 Discussion


Sep 22, 2019 10:46 AM

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"Hecatic Wheel"? Dafuq is this?
Did Nasu mean "Hekate Wheel"?

Oh boy...
Modified by Kamiyan3991, Sep 22, 2019 11:13 AM
 
Sep 22, 2019 11:15 AM

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Kamiyan3991 said:
"Hecatic Wheel"? Dafuq is this?
Dictionary has only "hectic".

Nasu, boy, learn English please.


I don't think it's got to do with "hectic." The Hecatic (ヘカティック) is in reference to Hecate and the Ages of Gods Greek magecraft, iirc.
 
Sep 22, 2019 11:43 AM
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After all that deduction Gray is finally unleashed to show her true power
 
Sep 22, 2019 1:34 PM

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Thess said:
Kamiyan3991 said:
"Hecatic Wheel"? Dafuq is this?
Dictionary has only "hectic".

Nasu, boy, learn English please.


I don't think it's got to do with "hectic." The Hecatic (ヘカティック) is in reference to Hecate and the Ages of Gods Greek magecraft, iirc.

Proper term is "Hekate Wheel":
https://www.ancient-symbols.com/symbols-directory/hecate-wheel.html
 
 
Sep 22, 2019 2:18 PM

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Kamiyan3991 said:
Thess said:


I don't think it's got to do with "hectic." The Hecatic (ヘカティック) is in reference to Hecate and the Ages of Gods Greek magecraft, iirc.

Proper term is "Hekate Wheel":
https://www.ancient-symbols.com/symbols-directory/hecate-wheel.html


Not for that Noble Phantasm, it's not. I'm sure they also used hekatic magecraft for the Hekate-blessed spells too but I can't be bothered to check the LN right now. It's simply Hekate name as an adjective.
 
Sep 22, 2019 3:15 PM

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Wow talk about going off the rails. This episode made bo sense whatsoever
 
Sep 22, 2019 6:27 PM

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owie my boi karabo got played twice feelsbadman :(

also aside from the fact Rhongomyniad is a literal death lazer, i'm pretty sure when Gray was 'charging it up' it actually had the same effects (bubbles of light floating upwards from the ground and around her) that saber had when she activated her excalibur in fate zero.
Also we see a tiny bit more of Gray's past i guess?

I'm pretty sure this anime is suppose to be the 'murder mystery crime solving detective' adaptation for fate so thats why action seems a bit low for your usual fate anime and more bigbrain ,but damn last 5ish mins was packed with action
Hopefully season 2? Please and thanks?



yabe.
 
 
Sep 22, 2019 10:25 PM
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Fukuyama Jun just can't voice a "serious" character without sounding like Lelouch, can he? When Heartless used his Command Seal to summon Hephaestion I was like "wtf, is he going to Geass them all?". As for the rest of the episode, it was ok. I'm not well versed in Fate lore to properly comment on anything and watching this purely for entertainment has been a good ride, so I have no complaints about anything.
 
Sep 23, 2019 12:23 AM

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I haven't mentioned this before but Karabo is the shit. Such a badass old man.

And well, that sure is a way to conclude a case. Gray's last scene activating Rhongomyniad while hearing the voice of Saber and the other knights gave me goosebumps, honestly.

Overall, it was a pretty good episode and probably, the best one in the series so far. The OST and general directing was absolutely on point. And not to mention that seeing how some events from previous cases were used to lead to this final resolution was quite satisfying to see.

One more episode to go. Really looking forward to this series' finale.
 
Sep 23, 2019 1:00 AM

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They only had Kawasumi (Saber) and Daisuke Ono (Kay) for the seal restrictions. But some of those VAs are kind of expensive to hire for that scene (Bedivere is voiced by Mamoru Miyano for example) so is understandable.
 
Sep 23, 2019 3:33 AM

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Thess said:
They only had Kawasumi (Saber) and Daisuke Ono (Kay) for the seal restrictions. But some of those VAs are kind of expensive to hire for that scene (Bedivere is voiced by Mamoru Miyano for example) so is understandable.

Not to mention some of the knights dont even have VAs.
 
 
Sep 23, 2019 7:04 AM

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I havent read Case File's LN but the whole anime series, if we exclude loregasm was...pretty bad tbh as a whole.

On one hand if I let the fan in me rate this it gets a 7 maybe 8 because of the references.But content wise....everything except the OST is pretty underwhelming.

Apo was fun at least. CF was just going from ep to ep building up something that didnt deliver. Sieg is trash but everything else in Apo is likable.


And is this series meant to develop Waver?

Still seems like an Iskandar wanker. Honestly, I liked him more at the end of Zero and EVERY OTHER SERIES where he doesnt ride Iskandar's dick the whole freaking time.
He wasnt so bad even in Fate/Accel Zero, and even with Iskandar himself there he could do stuff without caring about "muh Kingu".
 
Sep 23, 2019 7:46 AM

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CondemneDio said:
I seriously thought no Fate adaptation could be worse than Apocrypha.
Extra proved me wrong. I then, naively, thought Extra would be the absolute rock bottom. Once again, I was wrong. This anime deserves the title of the worst Fate anime.


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.
 
Sep 23, 2019 7:48 AM

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booyah10 said:
CondemneDio said:
I seriously thought no Fate adaptation could be worse than Apocrypha.
Extra proved me wrong. I then, naively, thought Extra would be the absolute rock bottom. Once again, I was wrong. This anime deserves the title of the worst Fate anime.


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.


Fate/ in the title is the only thing missing tbh.
 
Sep 23, 2019 8:22 AM

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booyah10 said:
CondemneDio said:
I seriously thought no Fate adaptation could be worse than Apocrypha.
Extra proved me wrong. I then, naively, thought Extra would be the absolute rock bottom. Once again, I was wrong. This anime deserves the title of the worst Fate anime.


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.

It is a fate anime, since it literally uses a plethora of characters from the franchise.
 
 
Sep 23, 2019 10:20 AM

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ssjokg said:
And is this series meant to develop Waver?

Still seems like an Iskandar wanker. Honestly, I liked him more at the end of Zero and EVERY OTHER SERIES where he doesnt ride Iskandar's dick the whole freaking time.
He wasnt so bad even in Fate/Accel Zero, and even with Iskandar himself there he could do stuff without caring about "muh Kingu".


The anime adapts one arc of many and marks the introduction of Heartless, the series antagonist with Faker. His search of Iskandar is actually very important to the plot same as Gray's own issues about her face and her 'fate' because is mixed with Heartless' objective (he could have used any catalyst for a Servant but he specifically went for Iskandar's cloak - that "why" won't be answered until the last arc which isn't animated yet - if it'll be animated or not). Adra Castle, the first arc that wasn't adapted (they went for anime original written episodes with TM on the script department), was less Iskandar-centric because it was a test run before the plot began full roll and so did both Grey and Waver's character arcs.

Anyway, do you also show annoyance to Fate Shirou for being overly fixated with Saber? Like telling her brother's ghost on her "grave" he'll never stop seeking her out. It's the same deal for Waver. It doesn't stop him from doing his job, or caring about his students, though. He saved both Flat and Gray from their loneliness (Flat's backstory is revealed in Fate/Strange Fake where he's a main character), for example. How is Iskandar being the most important person in his life stop him from doing anything? He's fairly functional, with a job, friends, wards-students, he even took care of an injured cat (in episode 0). Accel Zero Waver is supposed to be after Case Files, by the way.
Modified by Thess, Sep 23, 2019 10:32 AM
 
Sep 23, 2019 10:49 AM

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Thess said:
ssjokg said:
And is this series meant to develop Waver?

Still seems like an Iskandar wanker. Honestly, I liked him more at the end of Zero and EVERY OTHER SERIES where he doesnt ride Iskandar's dick the whole freaking time.
He wasnt so bad even in Fate/Accel Zero, and even with Iskandar himself there he could do stuff without caring about "muh Kingu".


The anime adapts one arc of many and marks the introduction of Heartless, the series antagonist with Faker. His search of Iskandar is actually very important to the plot same as Gray's own issues about her face and her 'fate' because is mixed with Heartless' objective (he could have used any catalyst for a Servant but he specifically went for Iskandar's cloak - that "why" won't be answered until the last arc which isn't animated yet - if it'll be animated or not). Adra Castle, the first arc that wasn't adapted (they went for anime original written episodes with TM on the script department), was less Iskandar-centric because it was a test run before the plot began full roll and so did both Grey and Waver's character arcs.

Anyway, do you also show annoyance to Fate Shirou for being overly fixated with Saber? Like telling her brother's ghost on her "grave" he'll never stop seeking her out. It's the same deal for Waver. It doesn't stop him from doing his job, or caring about his students, though. He saved both Flat and Gray from their loneliness (Flat's backstory is revealed in Fate/Strange Fake where he's a main character), for example. How is Iskandar being the most important person in his life stop him from doing anything? He's fairly functional, who even took care of an injured cat (in episode 0). Accel Zero Waver is supposed to be after Case Files, by the way.


Yeah I know all of that, to an extent, and since a s2 isnt confirmed yet, I dot really care what could happen later.Point is,this was a disappointment for me.

I dont mind Shirou's fixation on Saber because a)unlike Rider she acknowledges her mistakes, b)develops, c)actually makes sense after a while, d)doesnt treat her crime/sins as games of a king... in general she is a much better and enjoyable character than a whitewashed(no not the modern definition about skin color), completely selfish bully that some magi student befriended(or became subject of whatever).

Waver in Zero seemed already developed at the end.Then CF comes along and says "nah, he even has some minor ptsd now". And Waver was a normal functioning human unlike Shirou who was barely that after the fire and before the -near-end of the HGW.

Yes his obsession doesnt stop him from functioning as a human being and a professor.It still annoying to watch to that extend.

Waver in Accel Zero could easily be him after Zero and without us having to watch whatever happens in CF.
 
Sep 23, 2019 4:55 PM

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great episode. i enjoyed it! good to see Grey using her powers again.
the whole culprit plot took me by surprise.
 
Sep 23, 2019 6:38 PM

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CondemneDio said:
booyah10 said:


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.

It is a fate anime, since it literally uses a plethora of characters from the franchise.


LMAO, no. Despite its many flaws this is still way better than Apocrypha and Extra.
 
Sep 23, 2019 10:36 PM

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Red_Ranger_Wien said:
CondemneDio said:

It is a fate anime, since it literally uses a plethora of characters from the franchise.


LMAO, no. Despite its many flaws this is still way better than Apocrypha and Extra.

Apo and Extra isnt the only Fate....
 
Sep 24, 2019 1:32 AM

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ssjokg said:
Red_Ranger_Wien said:


LMAO, no. Despite its many flaws this is still way better than Apocrypha and Extra.

Apo and Extra isnt the only Fate....

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Now explain how your comment is related to the discussion at hand.
 
Sep 24, 2019 1:33 AM

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Red_Ranger_Wien said:
ssjokg said:

Apo and Extra isnt the only Fate....

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Now explain how your comment is related to the discussion at hand.
Go two quotes above and you may figure it out.
 
Sep 24, 2019 1:35 AM

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ssjokg said:
Red_Ranger_Wien said:

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Now explain how your comment is related to the discussion at hand.
Go two quotes above and you may figure it out.

Nope, still completely unrelated to me telling him that this is still a better anime than Extra or Apocrypha
 
Sep 24, 2019 4:14 AM

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Red_Ranger_Wien said:
ssjokg said:
Go two quotes above and you may figure it out.

Nope, still completely unrelated to me telling him that this is still a better anime than Extra or Apocrypha
Except that you decided to get involved AFTER it became a discussion about CF not being a Fate title only in the title.
 
 
Sep 25, 2019 11:49 PM

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Kisai113 said:
TRAIN GUNDAM

Naaah, train Yamato (like from Uchuu Senkan Yamato) - see above JuuzouXIII mentioning the Wave Motion Gun.


ssjokg said:
Except that you decided to get involved AFTER it became a discussion about CF not being a Fate title only in the title.

Dude, there are many different types of Fate titles like cooking show, mahou shoujo, parody with all the Type-Moon characters...
Lord El-Melloi II is just not comparable to the more action oriented stuff. Personally I like it better than Apo and Extra.
Many people here complain that it isn't a good mystery show but they didn't pay attention to certain details also they think in detective cliches - there is no firm rule that the culprit should be part of the main cast.
Modified by alshu, Sep 26, 2019 1:01 AM
 
Sep 26, 2019 1:58 AM

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alshu said:
Kisai113 said:
TRAIN GUNDAM

Naaah, train Yamato (like from Uchuu Senkan Yamato) - see above JuuzouXIII mentioning the Wave Motion Gun.


ssjokg said:
Except that you decided to get involved AFTER it became a discussion about CF not being a Fate title only in the title.

Dude, there are many different types of Fate titles like cooking show, mahou shoujo, parody with all the Type-Moon characters...
Lord El-Melloi II is just not comparable to the more action oriented stuff. Personally I like it better than Apo and Extra.
Many people here complain that it isn't a good mystery show but they didn't pay attention to certain details also they think in detective cliches - there is no firm rule that the culprit should be part of the main cast.


Parodies aside, this has all the elements FSN(at least) has.

For a mystery it has more than enough Fate action both from Servants and magi.

Yes there is no firm rule the culprit has to be from the main cast or even make a clear appearance at the beginning of the story.But that would make it a better mystery.

My problem isnt the mystery itself tho but how it is executed, at least how the anime decided to present it.


 
Sep 26, 2019 2:20 AM

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ssjokg said:

Parodies aside, this has all the elements FSN(at least) has.

For a mystery it has more than enough Fate action both from Servants and magi.

So what?
If every Fate show is one and the same that would be boring.

ssjokg said:

Yes there is no firm rule the culprit has to be from the main cast or even make a clear appearance at the beginning of the story.But that would make it a better mystery.

No, that would make it better only if it was a logical puzzle kind of a show (like Conan or Kindaichi).
Lord El-Melloi II obviously it's not one of those (like obvious even from episode 0).

ssjokg said:

My problem isnt the mystery itself tho but how it is executed, at least how the anime decided to present it.

Yep, some people hate competence porn.
But I think you are more disappointed with the way how Waver is interpreted here - he is emo and whimpers a lot. The actual detective work is done by others (Shishigo, Luvia, his students).
He definitely looks more badass in other titles like Apo and Prisma☆Illya (some short cameos there).

My main criticism here is that the anime dragged too much with this train case. It could be compressed into 4-5 episodes (4.2 + the eventual epilogue of the series). 7 is too long.
Modified by alshu, Sep 26, 2019 2:26 AM
 
Sep 26, 2019 3:25 AM

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@alshu
>If every Fate show is one and the same that would be boring.

I didnt say that they have to be the same. I said that they are quite similar.

>No, that would make it better only if it was a logical puzzle kind of a show (like Conan or Kindaichi).
Lord El-Melloi II obviously it's not one of those (like obvious even from episode 0).

Even if it is a fantasy mystery it can still create a better set up by doing what proper detective mysteries do.

>Yep, some people hate competence porn.
But I think you are more disappointed with the way how Waver is interpreted here - he is emo and whimpers a lot. The actual detective work is done by others (Shishigo, Luvia, his students).

I dont care if he does all the work or not. As long as that or other traits of him seemed balanced with his Iskandar wank, I wouldnt care. But all of the arc is him being in angst about the relic being stolen(something he also had stolen) or Faker not accepting him, or Faker not being in IE etc.

We could have spend all that time in this ep actually talking about the Dr Heartless, and maybe the LN did that, but somehow I am not sure they would just reveal anything so fast even in the original.
 
Sep 26, 2019 4:14 AM

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ssjokg said:

I didnt say that they have to be the same. I said that they are quite similar.

Of course they should have some similarities but they shouldn't be necessary identical.

ssjokg said:

Even if it is a fantasy mystery it can still create a better set up by doing what proper detective mysteries do.

Fantasy or not there are different kinds of detective titles - like some give you enough pieces of the puzzle to figure it out yourself, others keep you in the dark on purpose.
 
 
Sep 28, 2019 2:39 AM
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hearing saber's voice again was best part for me
 
Oct 12, 2019 8:44 AM

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So the servant was a faker, and the true bad guy has appeared, dr.Heartless

The church guy is really impressing, fighting heartless and his servant after he got his eyes back without needing rest or anything


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Oct 20, 2019 12:22 AM

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A lot of explanations in this episode which was nice.

RIP mastermind/faker. Gray did a good job of blasting them with her friendship beam.
 
 
Nov 2, 2019 12:32 PM
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So anyone else thinking that Church guy's eyes are really op?

I mean theoretically the way it works once it recorded a slash and reproduced them into the same space it could cut through anything (even servants and their weapons/gear). Could you imagine him cutting high end NP's like excaliber, shields armors,etc into pieces?
No wonder he needed to die.

Also Doctor Heartless ability of teleporting/opening gates kinda reminds me of a Darius/Angelica (Ainsworth specialty Flash Air, a form of displacement magecraft). Can't help but think maby Nasu ripped it off? (or just coincidence?)
Modified by frenze12, Nov 2, 2019 12:35 PM
 
Nov 3, 2019 12:59 PM

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so the train turned into laser beam shooting thomas the thank engine mech. mokay. lost all immersion i had for this series until that point.
 
Nov 3, 2019 4:51 PM

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This was a mediocre and slow paced show. The detective stuff was a nice change from the typical fate battle royale. But characters felt quite lacking. Waver was a cool character but I wasn't fully able to understand what he was even trying to achieve. And Saber vessel Gray seemed like a tool with little personality.

The ending had some action but was ultimately disappointing. I have no idea how Faker and Heartless escaped unscathed while that badass Karabo died since no explanation was provided. I guess the creators just rushed it in the end.
 
Nov 12, 2019 1:45 PM

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as interesting as it was, everything Waver said in the last 3+ episodes meant little to me compared to the hype i felt from this single minute of Gray-tness LOL
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Dec 27, 2019 9:03 PM

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No reaction whatsoever from a sister who just reunited with his brother...

Well that would be funny if that Arthuria that have been summoned all the time was a Faker all along.

Lol, of all things that Karabo could slash, he slashed only Hephaestion's clothes and cheek.
He who smiles in a crisis has found someone to blame.
 
Jan 2, 2020 10:35 PM

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Hmm...I mean I like the characters and all, and the premise is good, but I feel the execution just isn’t there. Seems like a lot of bs was pulled to explain everything that is going on during this arc. Specifically, that death cannon fired by the train was pretty ridiculous.

I’d love to see more of Reines, Gray, and Waver in the future for sure with hopes that it would be a better plot with better execution next time. That Karabo guy is pretty dope too. Ah well, hopefully the last episode is good. I enjoyed this anime a lot more during the shopping episode than the Rail Zeppelin arc.
 
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