Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
Pages (2) « 1 [2]
Post New Reply
Poll: Lord El-Melloi II Sei no Jikenbo: Rail Zeppelin Grace Note Episode 12 Discussion


Sep 21, 2019 4:29 PM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 156
Nothing makes sense including the explanations you just assume something happened in your head and run along with it. Wish they leaned in to the murder on the train mystery more because the whole allure of that is having the audience make their own deductions.

No one's thinking "Mmmm the leylines have been assembled all this time and the fairy who lost his heart used the Church man to carry out the murders to extract the mystic eyes thus the targeting of Trisha and the sudden attacks by a heroic spirit (etc)." lmaoooo

That is the equivalent of those children that create an explanation of why you didn't tag them in a game of tag "you didn't tag me because i did a backflip which makes me invincible cible for two seconds and now my real body is in germany and this is a hologram".
 
Sep 21, 2019 5:08 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 92
Wow!! They really made us wait for this... awesome end to the rail zeppelin arc... the wrap up, confrontation, music.. animation... wow!! I'll really miss this anime when it ends. Kinda wish for a second season since there is source material.

Strange tho... aren't Heartless and Adashino related? Was expecting Adashino to betray....

Concept of a prayer vs a curse to release more power from Add was poetic and the interjection of Saber's voice during Gray's activation sequence gave me the chills!!
 
 
Sep 21, 2019 5:10 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 5164
Always love Gray's special attack they are great for eyes and for making the show more enjoyable.
 
Sep 21, 2019 6:05 PM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 112
TRAIN GUNDAM

It's a pretty show if not a memorable one. Writer kinda sucks at teh whole mystery part.
 
Sep 21, 2019 6:15 PM
Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1192
Well, the culprit finally makes his appearance and I was surprised that Caules has been replaced since the beginning of the trip in the Rail Zeppelin, but without a doubt Doctor Heartless turned out to be someone very ingenious, this man was several steps forward, but Waver knew To live up to this wizard's wit.

I laughed a lot about how Reines and Caules arrived at the Rail Zeppelin, what a most exciting way to travel and Reines looks so cute flying through the skies.
What surprise me was to see that Adashino collaborated with Waver, she always acted suspiciously, but I suppose it was to deceive the real culprit.

Callebaut was practically a puppet controlled by Doctor Heartless in the murder of Trisha and also in the murders of the mystical eye holders of 7 years ago.

I'm still surprised that Ivette collaborated with Doctor Heartless, what a greedy girl, I hope Waver punishes Ivette severely.
In simple words the goal of Doctor Heartless was to create a Heroic Spirit and have him as Servant, in this case he invoked Hephaestion, but Waver reveals her true identity and this turned out to be double of Ishkandar, since she can use the Noble Phantasm of Ishkandar.

The fight against Doctor Heartless and Faker was very good personally speaking, although it was divided by the dialogues between Waver and Faker, where he revealed several revelations that made the woman in front of him angry and this resulted in Faker disobeying Doctor Heartless and the magician decides to use an Ace under his sleeve and releases the Son of Einnashe, but Waver had a lot of support to defeat Doctor Heartless, among them was Callebaut who gave a test of his mystical eye to Faker and Olga Marie next to Melvin and the other magicians at the auction managed to suppress Einnashe's son and the Rail Zeppelin itself gave the coup de grace to Einnashe's son.
But before claiming victory, Faker uses her mystical eye and she paralyzes Gray and Callebaut, then incapacitates the old man and before she manages to attack Gray, Waver throws the amulet that belonged to Trisha and Gray manages to seriously hurt Faker, but she still has the strength to fight and she invokes her Noble Phantasm, while Gray is left alone and she releases the seal to use Rhongomyniad and now the question is, will Gray have defeated Faker?
 
Sep 21, 2019 6:17 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1415
The other side of the King eh? One who was never named but followed the King. All those Zero vibes were incoming with Waver mentioning the words of the King of Conquerors, Iskandar. Glory lies beyond the horizon.

Also the fight between two pseudo Noble Phantasm is great. Hecatic Wheel derived from one of the King's NP, Gordius Wheel is really the true worth of the Faker.

JuuzouXIII said:


SEAL THIRTEEN, DECISION STARTO! The whole setup + Kajiura OST was really amazing

I like how they explain about relation between Iskandar physical appearance and Faker

And Fran Blasted Tree used by Caules T_T


I really like how they reference to the Fate franchise. I was hoping to see the actual round table not just the voices when Gray released the seal.
When someone asks me why I like anime, I'd say Just Because.

 
Sep 21, 2019 7:46 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 985


Doctor Heartless sounds like the name of a B-grade comic book villain lol

Man, if the train can use msytic eyes to make a laser beam, why didn't it do that the first time it was stuck in the Child of Einnashe?

Which work is Touko Travel from? I don't think it was in Kara no Kyoukai, unless it was a line in the books that I don't remember.
 
Sep 21, 2019 8:59 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1099
Yea, when you reveal a villain, you're suppose to have at least of heard of his existence or have been previously introduced to him. Still doubt Adashino's "innocence". The previously introduced stuff was good, this guy supposedly being the sole villain was eh.

Anyways, in this Fate spin-off, the spells have been consistently weird and kind of stupid / nonsensical.
 
 
Sep 21, 2019 9:30 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 248
I really like how they tied Gray to Saber. Usually these types of connections in other Fate related works to a famous character from another show can be quite superficial and really just put in there for the purpose of tropes or novelty, but at least for Gray it serves as room for potentially interesting character development.

Also really impressed by (Gray's VA) Ueda-san's performance during the Rhongomyniad scene.
 
Sep 21, 2019 9:34 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 6434
Luchse said:
Well that was an epic episode.
lihle808 said:
Didn't think the culprit would be a new character, a bit of a shocker!
Same! I was expecting one of the known characters.
I thought Caules was the one since he got caught on that binding spell, but hell!

Personally I wanted to to be Adashino, the bitch annoys me with her stinky attitude. So glad Faker blasted her!
¡Ay, caramba! --- Bart Simpson

 
Sep 21, 2019 10:47 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 390
Whoa, don't lift the restraints off of Gray!! The ending was cold af. Good episode. I couldn't predict anything that happened in this episode in terms of the reveal.lol
 
Sep 22, 2019 12:01 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 6525
The mysteries finally revealed and we get to see a bad ass op Gray, nthng more to ask for. Waver himself was outstanding once again.
 
Sep 22, 2019 12:38 AM
NEET4LYF

Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1083
glassknuckles said:
Doctor Heartless sounds like the name of a B-grade comic book villain lol

Man, if the train can use msytic eyes to make a laser beam, why didn't it do that the first time it was stuck in the Child of Einnashe?
Those were exactly my thoughts this episode. I'm taking a point off my rating just because of that cringeworthy name. There probably actually was a villain named Dr Heartless in some cheesy comic somewhere.

I'd like to think there's some reason, either technical or logistical in nature, other than simply for the sake of the plot, that the train couldn't do that the first time, but that didn't keep me from having the thought anyway. I've been enjoying each episode less and less as we go along, so my reaction to this one should have come as no surprise, but I still found it rather a letdown.
This message falls outside Funimation's standards.
 
Sep 22, 2019 1:10 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 985
Yautja said:
Yea, when you reveal a villain, you're suppose to have at least of heard of his existence or have been previously introduced to him. Still doubt Adashino's "innocence". The previously introduced stuff was good, this guy supposedly being the sole villain was eh.

In fairness, he was referenced a few episodes back by Sisigo and Luvia. I thought he was described also as someone's brother in law, but maybe I didn't understand that right.

kyoudai said:

I'd like to think there's some reason, either technical or logistical in nature, other than simply for the sake of the plot, that the train couldn't do that the first time, but that didn't keep me from having the thought anyway.

I might go back and look if there was some dialogue saying this particular train car, whatever, they called it, can't be used for some reason, like they were already in the child of einnashe before they knew what hit them and they don't have an area of effect spell

this episode for me was just kinda "..okay...imma just go with it"
Was a bit hard to get what was being said. Like Faker is Alexander's magical body double, I guess?
 
 
Sep 22, 2019 5:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 34
The explanations are still so hard to understand. What's that shadow of Iskander without a name bullshit? What does that even mean?
 
Sep 22, 2019 7:24 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9786
Damn! That last part was overwhelmingly great! with Kajiura OST as well! really astonishing!
5/5.


 
Sep 22, 2019 7:43 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1331
Nope, not following any of this. Fuck this whole arc, the self-contained mysteries in the beginning were so much better.
 
 
Sep 22, 2019 8:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1182
A few clarifications. Rail Zeppelin is the arc where the main antagonist of Case Files (aka Waver's Moriarty) appears, it won't give answers, but leave more questions. Like why did Heartless need a Servant at all. There's a reason this isn't answered in Rail Zeppelin.

The investigation Luvia and co were conducting blatantly linked the "man without a heart" who was investigating for Marisbury Animusphere was connected to the murders as Trisha was looking up this. They also mentioned in early episodes the mysterious former head of Modern Magecraft. So Waver wasn't the only one allowed in. The theft of the cloak of Iskandar being performed by the killer should have rule out anyone outside Modern Magecraft faculty because nobody but a Modern Magecraft student or teacher could have had access. Obviously the anime obscure the inner thoughts and monologues of connecting dots, but the who and how aren't as important as "why" in the show. This was stated many times. Who and how are fall apart when magic and mages are involved.

Doctor Heartless isn't his real name either. He's just called like that because his heart was stolen (literally speaking, his heart is in the faery realm) and magi like to rub in. I don't remember his real name, but he's related to Adashino (iirc, the subs messed up, and isn't brother in law but actually "adopted brother").

If anyone is confused about the shadow aspect, think in episode 0 where they explain about Shadows and afterimages. Faker isn't Hephaestion, she's just his nameless twin sister who acted as a double for him and Iskandar to redirect the curses toward her. She used a fake name to introduce herself because it's not her real identity. It seems that adult Waver resembles both the real Hephaestion (temperament) and Eumenes (strategist role/appearance - last is according to Faker) from Iskandar's line to Lord El Melloi II in FGO lines.
Modified by Thess, Sep 22, 2019 8:43 AM
 
Sep 22, 2019 9:28 AM
NEET4LYF

Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1083
glassknuckles said:

I might go back and look if there was some dialogue saying this particular train car, whatever, they called it, can't be used for some reason, like they were already in the child of einnashe before they knew what hit them and they don't have an area of effect spell

That was my guess (but only a guess) as well — that it couldn't do anything once already tangled up within it.

Thess said:
A few clarifications.
Thanks for clarifying and explaining, Thess. I've got a lot better understanding of what was going on — and why — thanks to your explanation. I tend to forget details in seasonals because they're spread over 3 months and also because I usually watch between 30 and 45 of them each season. When I read your comment, though, it reminded me that a "man without a heart" was mentioned a bit ago. So, no, he's not just appearing out of thin air. I feel better about the series as a whole now. As for the name, knowing that it wasn't something he chose for himself does make a difference. It's more of a sarcastic, snide comment on his failure to guard his own body, I'm guessing?

I've seen most of the Fate anime and movies (dropped Extra: Last Encore), and learned all I could from FGO when I played it (which of course mostly pertains to Servants, Chaldea, and not much more), but haven't played the other games, read the books, etc, so I know that I'm not particularly informed on the Fate multiverse. Having an explanation targeted to my level helps tremendously.

I feel like the entire series would have made much more sense — and could been more enjoyable — if I had watched it better informed. That may well be the distinction between those who love Rail Zep and those who hate it.
This message falls outside Funimation's standards.
 
Sep 22, 2019 9:51 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1182
@kyoudai: All details were there but like some were wayyyy too subtle and blink you miss in the anime (Unless you know Caules character well and how he's not that talented magus so far to pull such healing feat). Olga did question that but "Caules" made up his classes were good, though yeah, suspicious. Yvette's eagerness to bid. Adashino was too purposefully suspicious to be nothing but a red herring. Plus she's the Cop rival role in a Sherlock Holmes narrative, she could mess up and intervene, but she's not the culprit (also we see Waver rule her out explicitely in the previous episode). But the who and how are less important than why. The why was the servant summon. The why of the Servant summon is answered in the last arc of Case Files.

About Heartless' nickname: It's been a while, but I think his heart was stolen when he was young, he's mostly feared than mocked, because of his existence as without a heart makes him closer to the Age of Gods/the Other side (for example, even Kotomine has a heart, made of mud, but a heart, he can't survive long without one), in mystery level, so surpassing modern magecraft. He was a head of a Faculty without being one of the Lords, that kind of shows he's talented.
 
 
Sep 22, 2019 10:46 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 777
"Hecatic Wheel"? Dafuq is this?
Did Nasu mean "Hekate Wheel"?

Oh boy...
Modified by Kamiyan3991, Sep 22, 2019 11:13 AM
 
Sep 22, 2019 11:15 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1182
Kamiyan3991 said:
"Hecatic Wheel"? Dafuq is this?
Dictionary has only "hectic".

Nasu, boy, learn English please.


I don't think it's got to do with "hectic." The Hecatic (ヘカティック) is in reference to Hecate and the Ages of Gods Greek magecraft, iirc.
 
Sep 22, 2019 11:43 AM
Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 7908
After all that deduction Gray is finally unleashed to show her true power
 
Sep 22, 2019 1:34 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 777
Thess said:
Kamiyan3991 said:
"Hecatic Wheel"? Dafuq is this?
Dictionary has only "hectic".

Nasu, boy, learn English please.


I don't think it's got to do with "hectic." The Hecatic (ヘカティック) is in reference to Hecate and the Ages of Gods Greek magecraft, iirc.

Proper term is "Hekate Wheel":
https://www.ancient-symbols.com/symbols-directory/hecate-wheel.html
 
Sep 22, 2019 2:18 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1182
Kamiyan3991 said:
Thess said:


I don't think it's got to do with "hectic." The Hecatic (ヘカティック) is in reference to Hecate and the Ages of Gods Greek magecraft, iirc.

Proper term is "Hekate Wheel":
https://www.ancient-symbols.com/symbols-directory/hecate-wheel.html


Not for that Noble Phantasm, it's not. I'm sure they also used hekatic magecraft for the Hekate-blessed spells too but I can't be bothered to check the LN right now. It's simply Hekate name as an adjective.
 
Sep 22, 2019 3:15 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 632
Wow talk about going off the rails. This episode made bo sense whatsoever
 
Sep 22, 2019 6:27 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 594
owie my boi karabo got played twice feelsbadman :(

also aside from the fact Rhongomyniad is a literal death lazer, i'm pretty sure when Gray was 'charging it up' it actually had the same effects (bubbles of light floating upwards from the ground and around her) that saber had when she activated her excalibur in fate zero.
Also we see a tiny bit more of Gray's past i guess?

I'm pretty sure this anime is suppose to be the 'murder mystery crime solving detective' adaptation for fate so thats why action seems a bit low for your usual fate anime and more bigbrain ,but damn last 5ish mins was packed with action
Hopefully season 2? Please and thanks?



yabe.
 
Sep 22, 2019 10:25 PM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
Fukuyama Jun just can't voice a "serious" character without sounding like Lelouch, can he? When Heartless used his Command Seal to summon Hephaestion I was like "wtf, is he going to Geass them all?". As for the rest of the episode, it was ok. I'm not well versed in Fate lore to properly comment on anything and watching this purely for entertainment has been a good ride, so I have no complaints about anything.
 
Sep 23, 2019 12:23 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3802
I haven't mentioned this before but Karabo is the shit. Such a badass old man.

And well, that sure is a way to conclude a case. Gray's last scene activating Rhongomyniad while hearing the voice of Saber and the other knights gave me goosebumps, honestly.

Overall, it was a pretty good episode and probably, the best one in the series so far. The OST and general directing was absolutely on point. And not to mention that seeing how some events from previous cases were used to lead to this final resolution was quite satisfying to see.

One more episode to go. Really looking forward to this series' finale.
 
 
Sep 23, 2019 1:00 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1182
They only had Kawasumi (Saber) and Daisuke Ono (Kay) for the seal restrictions. But some of those VAs are kind of expensive to hire for that scene (Bedivere is voiced by Mamoru Miyano for example) so is understandable.
 
Sep 23, 2019 3:33 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 15507
Thess said:
They only had Kawasumi (Saber) and Daisuke Ono (Kay) for the seal restrictions. But some of those VAs are kind of expensive to hire for that scene (Bedivere is voiced by Mamoru Miyano for example) so is understandable.

Not to mention some of the knights dont even have VAs.
 
Sep 23, 2019 7:04 AM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
I havent read Case File's LN but the whole anime series, if we exclude loregasm was...pretty bad tbh as a whole.

On one hand if I let the fan in me rate this it gets a 7 maybe 8 because of the references.But content wise....everything except the OST is pretty underwhelming.

Apo was fun at least. CF was just going from ep to ep building up something that didnt deliver. Sieg is trash but everything else in Apo is likable.


And is this series meant to develop Waver?

Still seems like an Iskandar wanker. Honestly, I liked him more at the end of Zero and EVERY OTHER SERIES where he doesnt ride Iskandar's dick the whole freaking time.
He wasnt so bad even in Fate/Accel Zero, and even with Iskandar himself there he could do stuff without caring about "muh Kingu".
 
Sep 23, 2019 7:46 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 525
CondemneDio said:
I seriously thought no Fate adaptation could be worse than Apocrypha.
Extra proved me wrong. I then, naively, thought Extra would be the absolute rock bottom. Once again, I was wrong. This anime deserves the title of the worst Fate anime.


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.
 
 
Sep 23, 2019 7:48 AM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
booyah10 said:
CondemneDio said:
I seriously thought no Fate adaptation could be worse than Apocrypha.
Extra proved me wrong. I then, naively, thought Extra would be the absolute rock bottom. Once again, I was wrong. This anime deserves the title of the worst Fate anime.


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.


Fate/ in the title is the only thing missing tbh.
 
Sep 23, 2019 8:22 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 6211
booyah10 said:
CondemneDio said:
I seriously thought no Fate adaptation could be worse than Apocrypha.
Extra proved me wrong. I then, naively, thought Extra would be the absolute rock bottom. Once again, I was wrong. This anime deserves the title of the worst Fate anime.


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.

It is a fate anime, since it literally uses a plethora of characters from the franchise.
 
Sep 23, 2019 10:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1182
ssjokg said:
And is this series meant to develop Waver?

Still seems like an Iskandar wanker. Honestly, I liked him more at the end of Zero and EVERY OTHER SERIES where he doesnt ride Iskandar's dick the whole freaking time.
He wasnt so bad even in Fate/Accel Zero, and even with Iskandar himself there he could do stuff without caring about "muh Kingu".


The anime adapts one arc of many and marks the introduction of Heartless, the series antagonist with Faker. His search of Iskandar is actually very important to the plot same as Gray's own issues about her face and her 'fate' because is mixed with Heartless' objective (he could have used any catalyst for a Servant but he specifically went for Iskandar's cloak - that "why" won't be answered until the last arc which isn't animated yet - if it'll be animated or not). Adra Castle, the first arc that wasn't adapted (they went for anime original written episodes with TM on the script department), was less Iskandar-centric because it was a test run before the plot began full roll and so did both Grey and Waver's character arcs.

Anyway, do you also show annoyance to Fate Shirou for being overly fixated with Saber? Like telling her brother's ghost on her "grave" he'll never stop seeking her out. It's the same deal for Waver. It doesn't stop him from doing his job, or caring about his students, though. He saved both Flat and Gray from their loneliness (Flat's backstory is revealed in Fate/Strange Fake where he's a main character), for example. How is Iskandar being the most important person in his life stop him from doing anything? He's fairly functional, with a job, friends, wards-students, he even took care of an injured cat (in episode 0). Accel Zero Waver is supposed to be after Case Files, by the way.
Modified by Thess, Sep 23, 2019 10:32 AM
 
Sep 23, 2019 10:49 AM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
Thess said:
ssjokg said:
And is this series meant to develop Waver?

Still seems like an Iskandar wanker. Honestly, I liked him more at the end of Zero and EVERY OTHER SERIES where he doesnt ride Iskandar's dick the whole freaking time.
He wasnt so bad even in Fate/Accel Zero, and even with Iskandar himself there he could do stuff without caring about "muh Kingu".


The anime adapts one arc of many and marks the introduction of Heartless, the series antagonist with Faker. His search of Iskandar is actually very important to the plot same as Gray's own issues about her face and her 'fate' because is mixed with Heartless' objective (he could have used any catalyst for a Servant but he specifically went for Iskandar's cloak - that "why" won't be answered until the last arc which isn't animated yet - if it'll be animated or not). Adra Castle, the first arc that wasn't adapted (they went for anime original written episodes with TM on the script department), was less Iskandar-centric because it was a test run before the plot began full roll and so did both Grey and Waver's character arcs.

Anyway, do you also show annoyance to Fate Shirou for being overly fixated with Saber? Like telling her brother's ghost on her "grave" he'll never stop seeking her out. It's the same deal for Waver. It doesn't stop him from doing his job, or caring about his students, though. He saved both Flat and Gray from their loneliness (Flat's backstory is revealed in Fate/Strange Fake where he's a main character), for example. How is Iskandar being the most important person in his life stop him from doing anything? He's fairly functional, who even took care of an injured cat (in episode 0). Accel Zero Waver is supposed to be after Case Files, by the way.


Yeah I know all of that, to an extent, and since a s2 isnt confirmed yet, I dot really care what could happen later.Point is,this was a disappointment for me.

I dont mind Shirou's fixation on Saber because a)unlike Rider she acknowledges her mistakes, b)develops, c)actually makes sense after a while, d)doesnt treat her crime/sins as games of a king... in general she is a much better and enjoyable character than a whitewashed(no not the modern definition about skin color), completely selfish bully that some magi student befriended(or became subject of whatever).

Waver in Zero seemed already developed at the end.Then CF comes along and says "nah, he even has some minor ptsd now". And Waver was a normal functioning human unlike Shirou who was barely that after the fire and before the -near-end of the HGW.

Yes his obsession doesnt stop him from functioning as a human being and a professor.It still annoying to watch to that extend.

Waver in Accel Zero could easily be him after Zero and without us having to watch whatever happens in CF.
 
 
Sep 23, 2019 4:55 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 173
great episode. i enjoyed it! good to see Grey using her powers again.
the whole culprit plot took me by surprise.
 
Sep 23, 2019 6:38 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 784
CondemneDio said:
booyah10 said:


It doesn't even have the name Fate in its title...

Please stop comparing them.

It is a fate anime, since it literally uses a plethora of characters from the franchise.


LMAO, no. Despite its many flaws this is still way better than Apocrypha and Extra.
 
Sep 23, 2019 10:36 PM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
Red_Ranger_Wien said:
CondemneDio said:

It is a fate anime, since it literally uses a plethora of characters from the franchise.


LMAO, no. Despite its many flaws this is still way better than Apocrypha and Extra.

Apo and Extra isnt the only Fate....
 
Sep 24, 2019 1:32 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 784
ssjokg said:
Red_Ranger_Wien said:


LMAO, no. Despite its many flaws this is still way better than Apocrypha and Extra.

Apo and Extra isnt the only Fate....

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Now explain how your comment is related to the discussion at hand.
 
Sep 24, 2019 1:33 AM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
Red_Ranger_Wien said:
ssjokg said:

Apo and Extra isnt the only Fate....

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Now explain how your comment is related to the discussion at hand.
Go two quotes above and you may figure it out.
 
Sep 24, 2019 1:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 784
ssjokg said:
Red_Ranger_Wien said:

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Now explain how your comment is related to the discussion at hand.
Go two quotes above and you may figure it out.

Nope, still completely unrelated to me telling him that this is still a better anime than Extra or Apocrypha
 
Sep 24, 2019 4:14 AM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
Red_Ranger_Wien said:
ssjokg said:
Go two quotes above and you may figure it out.

Nope, still completely unrelated to me telling him that this is still a better anime than Extra or Apocrypha
Except that you decided to get involved AFTER it became a discussion about CF not being a Fate title only in the title.
 
 
Sep 25, 2019 11:49 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4418
Kisai113 said:
TRAIN GUNDAM

Naaah, train Yamato (like from Uchuu Senkan Yamato) - see above JuuzouXIII mentioning the Wave Motion Gun.


ssjokg said:
Except that you decided to get involved AFTER it became a discussion about CF not being a Fate title only in the title.

Dude, there are many different types of Fate titles like cooking show, mahou shoujo, parody with all the Type-Moon characters...
Lord El-Melloi II is just not comparable to the more action oriented stuff. Personally I like it better than Apo and Extra.
Many people here complain that it isn't a good mystery show but they didn't pay attention to certain details also they think in detective cliches - there is no firm rule that the culprit should be part of the main cast.
Modified by alshu, Sep 26, 2019 1:01 AM
 
 
Sep 26, 2019 1:58 AM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
alshu said:
Kisai113 said:
TRAIN GUNDAM

Naaah, train Yamato (like from Uchuu Senkan Yamato) - see above JuuzouXIII mentioning the Wave Motion Gun.


ssjokg said:
Except that you decided to get involved AFTER it became a discussion about CF not being a Fate title only in the title.

Dude, there are many different types of Fate titles like cooking show, mahou shoujo, parody with all the Type-Moon characters...
Lord El-Melloi II is just not comparable to the more action oriented stuff. Personally I like it better than Apo and Extra.
Many people here complain that it isn't a good mystery show but they didn't pay attention to certain details also they think in detective cliches - there is no firm rule that the culprit should be part of the main cast.


Parodies aside, this has all the elements FSN(at least) has.

For a mystery it has more than enough Fate action both from Servants and magi.

Yes there is no firm rule the culprit has to be from the main cast or even make a clear appearance at the beginning of the story.But that would make it a better mystery.

My problem isnt the mystery itself tho but how it is executed, at least how the anime decided to present it.


 
Sep 26, 2019 2:20 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4418
ssjokg said:

Parodies aside, this has all the elements FSN(at least) has.

For a mystery it has more than enough Fate action both from Servants and magi.

So what?
If every Fate show is one and the same that would be boring.

ssjokg said:

Yes there is no firm rule the culprit has to be from the main cast or even make a clear appearance at the beginning of the story.But that would make it a better mystery.

No, that would make it better only if it was a logical puzzle kind of a show (like Conan or Kindaichi).
Lord El-Melloi II obviously it's not one of those (like obvious even from episode 0).

ssjokg said:

My problem isnt the mystery itself tho but how it is executed, at least how the anime decided to present it.

Yep, some people hate competence porn.
But I think you are more disappointed with the way how Waver is interpreted here - he is emo and whimpers a lot. The actual detective work is done by others (Shishigo, Luvia, his students).
He definitely looks more badass in other titles like Apo and Prisma☆Illya (some short cameos there).

My main criticism here is that the anime dragged too much with this train case. It could be compressed into 4-5 episodes (4.2 + the eventual epilogue of the series). 7 is too long.
Modified by alshu, Sep 26, 2019 2:26 AM
 
Sep 26, 2019 3:25 AM

Online
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 18644
@alshu
>If every Fate show is one and the same that would be boring.

I didnt say that they have to be the same. I said that they are quite similar.

>No, that would make it better only if it was a logical puzzle kind of a show (like Conan or Kindaichi).
Lord El-Melloi II obviously it's not one of those (like obvious even from episode 0).

Even if it is a fantasy mystery it can still create a better set up by doing what proper detective mysteries do.

>Yep, some people hate competence porn.
But I think you are more disappointed with the way how Waver is interpreted here - he is emo and whimpers a lot. The actual detective work is done by others (Shishigo, Luvia, his students).

I dont care if he does all the work or not. As long as that or other traits of him seemed balanced with his Iskandar wank, I wouldnt care. But all of the arc is him being in angst about the relic being stolen(something he also had stolen) or Faker not accepting him, or Faker not being in IE etc.

We could have spend all that time in this ep actually talking about the Dr Heartless, and maybe the LN did that, but somehow I am not sure they would just reveal anything so fast even in the original.
 
Sep 26, 2019 4:14 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4418
ssjokg said:

I didnt say that they have to be the same. I said that they are quite similar.

Of course they should have some similarities but they shouldn't be necessary identical.

ssjokg said:

Even if it is a fantasy mystery it can still create a better set up by doing what proper detective mysteries do.

Fantasy or not there are different kinds of detective titles - like some give you enough pieces of the puzzle to figure it out yourself, others keep you in the dark on purpose.
 
Sep 28, 2019 2:39 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 56
hearing saber's voice again was best part for me
 
Pages (2) « 1 [2]