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Poll: Araburu Kisetsu no Otome-domo yo. Episode 12 Discussion


Sep 23, 11:08 PM

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El-Random said:
Escaethorne said:
Being against whores is "incel behaviour"? Most incels mainly hate whores since they can't get one and they have some stupid complex about being virgins. On the other hand, sane men hate whores for sane reasons - increased chances of STDs, infidelity, divorce, and female unhappiness. Believe me, man, I've had non-virgin women that would have tongued my ass at the snap of my fingers, but I'd never in a million years marry one.

bruh, that's the most incel line in the incel book.

If you think a woman wanting to have sex = being a whore then you're going to be real dissappointed once you're out of your basement and meet real people out on the real world.


It’s ironic to see comments that if a woman wants sex, then she is a whore in the comments under such an anime, lol. However, people who use the word incel as a political cliche aren't better.

Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Sep 24, 1:23 AM

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So it ended nicely. I am happy that they cleared out all the things between themselves, no more lying, just pure emotion. Love the show, the only problem here is Momoko, she is annoying. The show is really inappopriate, considering the characters are high school students engaging sexual things.
 
Sep 24, 4:58 AM

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RobertBobert said:
El-Random said:

bruh, that's the most incel line in the incel book.

If you think a woman wanting to have sex = being a whore then you're going to be real dissappointed once you're out of your basement and meet real people out on the real world.


It’s ironic to see comments that if a woman wants sex, then she is a whore in the comments under such an anime, lol. However, people who use the word incel as a political cliche aren't better.


I think those sorts of comments kinda prove the point of the series: if you're a woman, everyone is going to automatically assume that you don't want to have sex (at least in japanese society). And if you do anything to suggest that you do want sex or that you're already sexually active, you're going to be "punished" by those around you (either peers or authorities).

And yeah, the Incel thing is probably fair. I just thought it was hillarious how he/she started his comment saying this wasn't "incel behaviour" and then end up writing something that would literally belong on r/incels or r/theredpill
 
Sep 24, 10:47 AM

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El-Random said:
RobertBobert said:


It’s ironic to see comments that if a woman wants sex, then she is a whore in the comments under such an anime, lol. However, people who use the word incel as a political cliche aren't better.


I think those sorts of comments kinda prove the point of the series: if you're a woman, everyone is going to automatically assume that you don't want to have sex (at least in japanese society). And if you do anything to suggest that you do want sex or that you're already sexually active, you're going to be "punished" by those around you (either peers or authorities).

And yeah, the Incel thing is probably fair. I just thought it was hillarious how he/she started his comment saying this wasn't "incel behaviour" and then end up writing something that would literally belong on r/incels or r/theredpill


Well, your business. Personally, I just hate political labels. As well as attempts to enclose women in cages and watch them like birds, however.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Sep 24, 11:22 AM

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This anime is an ABSOLUTE GOLD. It unfolded beautifully and was well paced. Such elegance. I heard that the Manga “got boring” so the translator dropped it (which explains why the anime is ahead of the translated manga) and that the anime kinda had to deviate from its original course. Is it true?. Overall, its a solid 9/10 for me.
 
Sep 24, 11:24 AM

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ProofByColor said:
Hmmm that was kind of a train wreck, but at the same time it never felt as bad/stupid as I anticipated it would be. Idk this is hard to evaluate. It's pretty shit but I kinda liked it. I even feel the seemingly random happy ending actually works really well. Is this what you call guilty pleasure lmao.


So its good and bad at the same time? Ah, well, everyone has their own tastes and I respect that. The show was 9/10 for me.
 
Sep 24, 12:25 PM
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Mega cringe last episode with trying to pretentiously connect something as stupid as “color tag” to every theme this show tackled in such a heavy handed way so much as it literally dismantles any nuance this show had to those ideas in the first place

I’d say it’s still a 6/10 overall though. Pretty standard coming of age with some really good moments from the first half.
 
Sep 24, 4:19 PM
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Leo said:
I'm going to miss listening to the OP.


You can find them on youtube, I will definitely add OP and ED to my playlist. :D
 
Sep 24, 6:27 PM

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Somehow I really grew to hate this show over the last episode.

Completely jumped the shark with the kidnapping/takeover, then we get color tag and hanging huge banners over the school? Seems like a Jdrama finale honestly.

Of course Momoko is foreveralone - she only existed to move the plot, poor thing. And we get a fucking train metaphor for fucking in the last scene. It was bad enough seeing it and thinking it and then she says "haita"? Glad I can get off this train now.
 
Sep 24, 8:22 PM

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El-Random said:
Escaethorne said:
Being against whores is "incel behaviour"? Most incels mainly hate whores since they can't get one and they have some stupid complex about being virgins. On the other hand, sane men hate whores for sane reasons - increased chances of STDs, infidelity, divorce, and female unhappiness. Believe me, man, I've had non-virgin women that would have tongued my ass at the snap of my fingers, but I'd never in a million years marry one.

bruh, that's the most incel line in the incel book.

If you think a woman wanting to have sex = being a whore then you're going to be real dissappointed once you're out of your basement and meet real people out on the real world.

Depends on the context, buddy. Wanting to have sex with the one you love isn't whorish, but a woman who just wants to have sex for the sake of it? If that's not promiscuity, I dunno what is.
Also, nice try on the "leave your basement" line, but I've had more women than I can count on my fingers, and have been engaged once.
 
Sep 25, 2:44 AM

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What a mess, and it really crashed with the over the top last episode .This anime seem to have a problem setting a tone

But in the end i got my lesbian ,,,YES!!!! Even if i dont think old man lover girl is a good girlfriend for her,,,Mo chin really wanted Niina and i think it made her happy ,and i like the end ,Only thing i cared about was my beloved Mo chin, and i think she have a good ending witch was my biggest concern

Because of the beautiful wonderful pure lesbian ,and her awesome behaviour against irritating males. I give this Anime 5/10

I loved that a lesbian was included and not being defiling in any means. And im also glad you have proven to me why i forbid heterosexuality in my anime. It doesn't work this anime are the prove of that!! Thank you for proving me right and strengthen my believes!!

I would like a season two ,,,Definitely curios about Niinas and Mo,s future

Mo chin Honey!! In the end it was all about you!!! You saved this anime great job pumpkin!!




Modified by Yuri-Crusader, Sep 25, 2:57 AM
Love is too beautiful to be hidden in a closet!
 
Sep 25, 3:38 AM

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@Yuri-Crusader Lol, who told you that they became a couple in the end? :) Not to mention the fact that the plot never said that Niina allegedly likes that pedophile.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Sep 25, 3:53 AM

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RobertBobert said:
@Yuri-Crusader Lol, who told you that they became a couple in the end? :) Not to mention the fact that the plot never said that Niina allegedly likes that pedophile.


Well i avoided to read most of the post about this anime to be honest because i wanted to find out for myself =P,but yes remember you said something about it earlier

The only problem for me is I dont see Niinas as pure, and you know me and im a pure extremist .And i want my lesbian waifus to have pure girlfriends ,,But all anime are not going to play to my fetish. And i was so happy for Mo chin =) only thing i miss in the end was i wanted them to hold hands or better do some lesbian kissing ,YES!!,, But you dont get everything you want in life =P ,,The lesbian save the anime in the end like lesbians always do =P
Modified by Yuri-Crusader, Sep 25, 3:56 AM
Love is too beautiful to be hidden in a closet!
 
Sep 25, 4:05 AM

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Yuri-Crusader said:
RobertBobert said:
@Yuri-Crusader Lol, who told you that they became a couple in the end? :) Not to mention the fact that the plot never said that Niina allegedly likes that pedophile.


Well i avoided to read most of the post about this anime to be honest because i wanted to find out for myself =P,but yes remember you said something about it earlier

The only problem for me is I dont see Niinas as pure, and you know me and im a pure extremist .And i want my lesbian waifus to have pure girlfriends ,,But all anime are not going to play to my fetish. And i was so happy for Mo chin =) only thing i wanted them to hold hands in the end ,, but a small thing ,,The lesbian save the anime =P


Damn, the show deconstructs male fantasies about female purity, but you're trying to write here about how you love pure girls, lol.

All we know from the canon at the moment is that they remained friends and probably support each other after the experience gained in the show. I don’t know if it was intentionally ambiguous or not, but before the release of the manga epilogue, this maximum can only pull on "no romantic resolution". Knowing Okada as a author who even puts canonical couples in this trope, it can be very difficult to understand her intentions.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Sep 25, 5:52 AM

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RobertBobert said:
Yuri-Crusader said:


Well i avoided to read most of the post about this anime to be honest because i wanted to find out for myself =P,but yes remember you said something about it earlier

The only problem for me is I dont see Niinas as pure, and you know me and im a pure extremist .And i want my lesbian waifus to have pure girlfriends ,,But all anime are not going to play to my fetish. And i was so happy for Mo chin =) only thing i wanted them to hold hands in the end ,, but a small thing ,,The lesbian save the anime =P


Damn, the show deconstructs male fantasies about female purity, but you're trying to write here about how you love pure girls, lol.

All we know from the canon at the moment is that they remained friends and probably support each other after the experience gained in the show. I don’t know if it was intentionally ambiguous or not, but before the release of the manga epilogue, this maximum can only pull on "no romantic resolution". Knowing Okada as a author who even puts canonical couples in this trope, it can be very difficult to understand her intentions.


Words can mean many different things ,and we all have different take on stuff.When i use the word pure in anime I just mean a lesbian that never have any heterosexual interest .In my eyes my Mo chin is pure and therefor my lesbian waifu ,only pure girls can be waifus and i want them to be with other waifus not other girls who have committed heterosexual acts,,, But again that is more something for the fetish anime i watch, rather then this with a more realistic tone

Then what the author think pure is, I dont give a fuck to be honest .Okada is a idiot who cant chose a tone and are all over the place .This is a very confused and extremely poorly written anime in my book , I have my own theories and sticking with them =)

Well they said they are going to continue to be friends to see what happens ,,When you said that to someone means that you are more then friends. But as i said i would have wanted them to hold hands or something or even kiss for a better ending
Modified by Yuri-Crusader, Sep 25, 6:37 AM
Love is too beautiful to be hidden in a closet!
 
Sep 25, 6:01 AM

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Yuri-Crusader said:
RobertBobert said:


Damn, the show deconstructs male fantasies about female purity, but you're trying to write here about how you love pure girls, lol.

All we know from the canon at the moment is that they remained friends and probably support each other after the experience gained in the show. I don’t know if it was intentionally ambiguous or not, but before the release of the manga epilogue, this maximum can only pull on "no romantic resolution". Knowing Okada as a author who even puts canonical couples in this trope, it can be very difficult to understand her intentions.


Words can mean many different things ,and we all have different take on stuff.When i use the word pure in anime I just mean a lesbian that never have any heterosexual interest .In my eyes my Mo chin is pure and therefor my lesbian waifu ,only pure girls can be waifus

Then what the author think pure is, I dont give a fuck to be honest .Okada is a idiot who cant chose a tone and are all over the place .This is a very confused and extremely poorly written anime in my book , I have my own theories and sticking with them =)

Well they said they are going to continue to be friends to see what happens ,,When you said that to someone means that you are more then friends. But as i said i would have wanted them to hold hands or something or even kiss for a better ending


I would say how sexist you sound at the moment, but I'm too lazy to argue with you about anything, because I'm looking for 2-3 shows to close my get in 900 titles, lol.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Sep 25, 3:04 PM
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decent ending it'd good to know they wrapped up all their issues in the end
 
Sep 25, 6:55 PM
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This was a really great show, loved the end.
 
Sep 25, 8:43 PM

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Plate said:
Somehow I really grew to hate this show over the last episode.

Completely jumped the shark with the kidnapping/takeover, then we get color tag and hanging huge banners over the school? Seems like a Jdrama finale honestly.

Of course Momoko is foreveralone - she only existed to move the plot, poor thing. And we get a fucking train metaphor for fucking in the last scene. It was bad enough seeing it and thinking it and then she says "haita"? Glad I can get off this train now.

Hahaha yeahh man wth, why did they had to tell us they did it in the end. The whole thing after the time skip was just happy ending 101 material.
I was glad when some of those feelings came out before, life Izumi saying he was sexually atracted to Sugawara, that happens man, its not just a teenager thing, so i liked him more in the end, although of course most women would just break things up right there in the real world but maaaybe still salvage the sex with the other.

Anyway in the end i really enjoyed the series but i've been disappointed by it since the last 3 episodes. It's a solid 7/10 for me.
 
Sep 25, 8:49 PM

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@KudanMX Momoko is not alone, she still has a “refused gay best friend” s route, lol. In any case, she and Niina support each other, I think.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Sep 25, 8:58 PM

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RobertBobert said:
@KudanMX Momoko is not alone, she still has a “refused gay best friend” s route, lol. In any case, she and Niina support each other, I think.

Hey he said it, not me lol. Tbh it ended well for her, it doesn't seem like a bad age to realice you're gay and she's cute so she would probably find someone else.
I'm completely ignorant right now but somehow i think it's way harder for a japanese teen lesbian to be open about it unlike other places.
 
Sep 25, 10:05 PM

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KudanMX said:
RobertBobert said:
@KudanMX Momoko is not alone, she still has a “refused gay best friend” s route, lol. In any case, she and Niina support each other, I think.

Hey he said it, not me lol. Tbh it ended well for her, it doesn't seem like a bad age to realice you're gay and she's cute so she would probably find someone else.
I'm completely ignorant right now but somehow i think it's way harder for a japanese teen lesbian to be open about it unlike other places.


I think this is something like my country current situation. I mean, the stronger you stand on your feet and can have responsibility, the more you can be open in your sexuality. If you are a teenager who lives with her parents in a patriarchal country, then a lot still depends on your family.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Sep 26, 12:16 PM

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I liked it a lot at the start but it goes downhill through the episodes. This ending wasn't that good, I found the last two episodes pretty bad. I was expecting something more, but it's an okay series, I liked it less than I was expecting after the first episodes but remains the fact I liked it.
 
Sep 28, 2:41 AM

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The anime was on the right track in the most part but in the latter episodes it took a very weird way but still like it for its uniqueness.

the strongest points of this anime are its humour, its close to our reality, teens need to watch this kind of animes to open their eyes in these kind of things then OP and ED were good af lastly Sonezaki x Amagi couple story were much more entertaining than Izumis lol

So i gave this 8/10.
Unexpectedly good anime, one of the great gems of Summer 2019.
i dont like the ending personally it could be better but its still decent in its own way.

I'm gonna miss Sonezaki senpai : (
Hoping for S2.
#PrayForKyoAni
 
Sep 28, 4:31 AM

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IDK.... somehow i felt so pissed of but in other hand i felt amazed with they way it is,

The OP is totally awesome, one of my fav this season, The ED is also good.

Up till ep 8 if i'm not mistaken (Izumi confession to Kazusa) i felt really happy enjoying it till the Niina's drama came in, the dissapoinment in Izumi, Kazusa, and other of ruckus they made (especially Dissapointing confession of Izumi's sexual attraction toward Niina and Izumi's love toward Kazusa) is surprisingly made me felt very awful, but somehow the way it make felt so pissed of is the one that amazed me.

The way Izumi seems to made it worst with his confession toward both Niina and Kazusa, "sexual attraction and love" i really had a good laugh with some pissed off feeling yet i didn't denied about his statement.
Well personally i think sometimes reality is harsh (as the one who was a teen/young adult male, i felt you Izumi LOL), and that's happen . ...(realizing of sexual attraction toward someone and separate it with realizing of love toward someone ). Glad he realized what is to be romantically involved with someone (that IzumixKazusa moments :3).

well luckily after all those twist of event, roller coaster feels, dramas take turns, the final episodes wrapped it with beautiful closing (Izumi reals feeling to be always be with Kazusa forever(This one cooled my head off XD), and short cute RikaxShun moment, that beautifully covered with those color games).

The epilogues was also awesome with happy family of Jujo, college life of RikaxShun, and the remaining member of literature club including lovely IzumixKazusa.

At first i thought it to be a comedic slice of life with light romance, then i'm very surprised of what this series shown. the Drama's that it gave were great, even better with the great mixing of Comedy in it (somehow after 1 highly tensed moments, they just somehow jumped into comedic moments/skit and they just fit in perfectly), i think that was awesome. It's been a long time since i watch/read a heavy drama that include something that pissed me off (Niina's with KazusaxIzumi) yet still Impressed and Amazed me, well as expected from Okada-sensei on composing that "Drama". I think The Storywriting is wonderful, and the words choice in dialog is great, i like the way the words was used.

Well my head still aching with this rollercaster of great mixing of Drama, Comedy and Romance, gotta rest XD.

Absolute 10/10 for me
Modified by r16fourarm, Sep 28, 6:03 AM
 
Sep 28, 8:47 AM

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Sad to see this end but Atleast it somehow got a happy end. Still left me with a lot of questions though

 
Sep 28, 3:00 PM

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What a shit fest of a show. Is this all it takes to simply make a trainwreck? Add a bunch of different fetishes and then mix it into one? It's all just talk too. So much focus on the sexual theme and yet they can't even do a kiss scene. Holding hands is already difficult enough for the characters. Jesus christ. At least Kuzu no Honkai had more of the balls to go further.
 
Sep 28, 10:46 PM

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Pretty much gonna say that I agree with most of the people here that say that the first 10 episodes were good and interesting, I am pretty much a sucker for high school drama and I was interested in the possible ntr that never happened.

This time, I didn't get mad with this Mari Okada ending, but instead confused. The last two episodes really killed it for me. I enjoyed the show, but Sugawara didn't go all the way at the end. And Izumi being a classic harem protag didn't help either.

All I am disappointed in is that there was no ntr. 6/10
 
Sep 29, 11:35 AM
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ok since the series started kinda going downhill a bit toward the end, i think i'll give it a 7/10
i really really love the way it ended and how kazusa said "it fit" at the end. at least we know they had the sexy times. LOL
anyway the ending was super strong, i love how hongou gracefully stepped down and accepted yamagishi-sensei's feelings.. AND THEY'RE GETTING MARRIED TOO!!!!!!! yeeHAW
ok yeah anyway GOOD ENDING LOVE IT
 
Sep 29, 7:25 PM

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I think this show started out great with a refreshing idea but went cliche and downhill really fast with all the usual tropes. I rated it 6/10 purely for comedy, if I had to rate just the story it would be much lower. Oh well it was nice while it lasted, last two episodes were completely forgettable.
 
Sep 30, 6:42 AM
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The last two episodes were really unfathomably stupid and unbelievably rushed. A pity since the first 10 were pretty neat but wow, this took a plunge into pranetland so quickly. Still, a decent seasonal, although nothing more than that.
 
Sep 30, 10:16 AM
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After very strong start I feel this anime lost something the longer it went. At first it was really funny while also being engaging coming of age story with reasonable drama. But near the end it felt way too over the top and the problems they had were, imo, too childish even for high school kids.

"It fit" at the end made me chuckle.
 
Sep 30, 3:49 PM
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Yuri-Crusader said:

But in the end i got my lesbian ,,,YES!!!!

Because of the beautiful wonderful pure lesbian ,and her awesome behaviour against irritating males. I give this Anime 5/10

And im also glad you have proven to me why i forbid heterosexuality in my anime. It doesn't work this anime are the prove of that!!

Thank God you got your beautiful wonderful pure lesbian.
How dare the males be irritating.
Im glad you finally have the proof you needed to have to have done things before you had the proof. We need more anime that will prove people that they were right about forbidding stuff, let alone heterosexuality* - that one is a serious obstacle on the path of cultural progressivism, multi-culturalism, inclusivism and all the other isms.
 
Sep 30, 3:58 PM
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RobertBobert said:

I would say how sexist you sound at the moment, but I'm too lazy to argue with you about anything, because I'm looking for 2-3 shows to close my get in 900 titles, lol.

I'll have you informed that all your arguments are invalid because my list weights 952 titles.
I'd say how that logic works at the moment, but I'm too lazy looking at my fabulous list.

All your notice me senpai memes finally paid off. I noticed you. Enjoy the glory.
 
Sep 30, 4:13 PM
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Escaethorne said:
Well, this was degenerate trash right to the end. Pushes the whole "muh female sexuality" crap too hard. I'm considering suffering through the manga just for more Hongou.
Really though, no matter how self-aware the cringy literary references were, there's nothing cultured about it. It's poorly disguised propaganda written by the kind of hag you'd expect to hop on a broom and fly away. I'm not some hardliner traditionalist, but some things are innate to human nature.

You are 500 anime short to have an opinion. At least according to my kouhai over there. Know what, I'll take you seriously.
 
Sep 30, 4:15 PM

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sspit said:
RobertBobert said:

I would say how sexist you sound at the moment, but I'm too lazy to argue with you about anything, because I'm looking for 2-3 shows to close my get in 900 titles, lol.

I'll have you informed that all your arguments are invalid because my list weights 952 titles.
I'd say how that logic works at the moment, but I'm too lazy looking at my fabulous list.

All your notice me senpai memes finally paid off. I noticed you. Enjoy the glory.


What? What is the logic? Did I say somewhere that I'm right because I watched almost 900 anime?

P.S I appreciate your attempt at fat trolling towards YC, but I have to disappoint you, he is a Troll himself.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Oct 1, 1:57 PM
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Come on. Does it really matter? Your comment about your list was uncalled for and that is the point.

I did not mean to be rude really, I was passing by and your comment struck me as particularly immature. I may not have done my best, but I felt like you should get at least some feedback about that and being the master poster that you are, with an amazing amount of exactly 2159 posts, I was hoping you would understand the hidden message without additional explanation.

There is so much to talk about here (about the show), yet you are most interested in the most meaningless topic. Kinda red flag.
 
Oct 1, 4:20 PM

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sspit said:


Come on. Does it really matter? Your comment about your list was uncalled for and that is the point.

I did not mean to be rude really, I was passing by and your comment struck me as particularly immature. I may not have done my best, but I felt like you should get at least some feedback about that and being the master poster that you are, with an amazing amount of exactly 2159 posts, I was hoping you would understand the hidden message without additional explanation.

There is so much to talk about here (about the show), yet you are most interested in the most meaningless topic. Kinda red flag.


Why are you even so concerned about the mention of my list? I just wrote that I didn't want to discuss the problematic commentary because I was busy with my list. You do a big deal out of my random comment, but blame me for it.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Oct 2, 2:49 PM
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It went a bit downhill after Niina started all the drama, but I loved the first few eps and Sonezaki's relationship with Amagi.


And lol, it fit.
 
Oct 3, 6:43 AM

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Overall it was a fun little show, surved it's purpose quite well. The ending definitely felt way too quick, and the scenario it ended on in ep11 as well as start of ep12 was kind of ridiculous, and the teachers changed their minds and the drop of a hat.

The school reacted the way it did not due to contrivance, but because of the way japanese conformist society is buit up. The school has to avoid being toolenient for that will affect it's reputation. If an event blows up intoa large commotion, it's more in the school's interest to diffuse the commotion to avoid even worse damage to reputation.

It was nice to see our 2 main couples resolve their conflicts in an interesting and amusing way, though again it was pretty quick.

Poor Momoko in the hardest spot to be in with all this drama happening around her in an exclusionary way, yikes, feel for her.

Huzzah for non-bias on teenage pregnancy!
She's so damn happy.


razisgosu said:
RobertBobert said:
Honestly, I don’t see any “a bit closer” there, but if you get carried away by speculation, then I think that it is quite possible to come up with justifications for this. But until the release of the epilogue or the recognition of Okada itself, it will be pure speculation.
I don't think its that far off to say the sleeve grabbing, the blushy smiles, and them being together in general after how upset Momo was could be interpreted as a couple. Or Momo could realize she doesn't like Niina and they're simply friends period. It could have gone either or. That's why I said it was one of my most important questions.
RobertBobert said:
There was no blush; this is the standard character design in this work. As for the scene, if we didn’t dig too deeply, it meant that despite Niina’s “loss”, Momo was still there as her new best friend who was ready to support her. Not to mention the fact that they only spend Kazusa to the station, and weren't there together on their own. I don't want to draw any conclusions before the release of the manga epilogue, but at the moment I doubt that this can be anything more than mutual support after a relatively negative experience.
I know i'm a bit late to the party but i disagree here. Momoko does have some of a chance with Niina, and as i've said on previous episodes, she really would be Niina's saviour. As it stands now, Niina has not had ANY of her issues solved, she is still a mess from the self-serving actions of that intructor. Niina is "impure" and out of normalcy enough already to be open to non-standard relationships. Momoko's purity and honesty was really quite potent and was enough to really surprise Niina, and even made Niina go out of her way to at the very least accept Momoko's feelings, even if she does not reciprocate yet, and that is where we ended off.

The issue is the taboo in japanese society, which adds a layer of confusion. Niina was observably very emotionally affected by Momoko's sincerity, and not only that, Momoko is the first person to ever actually LOVE Niina, and not just see her as a sex object like the instructor guy and Izumi did. Niina learned to imagine being thought of as a sex object as arousing due to her liking Izumi, and the idea of Izumi using her was exciting to her, but not transformative.

The story ended way too fast to adequately pay off much of if any of the build up of Niina's character arc.

RobertBobert said:
El-Random said:
I think those sorts of comments kinda prove the point of the series: if you're a woman, everyone is going to automatically assume that you don't want to have sex (at least in japanese society). And if you do anything to suggest that you do want sex or that you're already sexually active, you're going to be "punished" by those around you (either peers or authorities).

And yeah, the Incel thing is probably fair. I just thought it was hillarious how he/she started his comment saying this wasn't "incel behaviour" and then end up writing something that would literally belong on r/incels or r/theredpill


Well, your business. Personally, I just hate political labels. As well as attempts to enclose women in cages and watch them like birds, however.
Actually, @El-Random is correct here... In japan that sexist dichotomy dies exist there very starkly. If a girl talks about sex, she falls into the "gyaru" camp and is seen as impure.

...What about society's extremely successful attempts to enclose children in cages and watch them like birds? That's actually many magnitudes worse than the women thing.

@KudanMX
RobertBobert said:
KudanMX said:
Hey he said it, not me lol. Tbh it ended well for her, it doesn't seem like a bad age to realice you're gay and she's cute so she would probably find someone else.
I'm completely ignorant right now but somehow i think it's way harder for a japanese teen lesbian to be open about it unlike other places.
I think this is something like my country current situation. I mean, the stronger you stand on your feet and can have responsibility, the more you can be open in your sexuality. If you are a teenager who lives with her parents in a patriarchal country, then a lot still depends on your family.
A study of Takarazuka Revue (basis for Revue Starlight anime) and it's members and history is a pretty damn good snapshot of the history of lesbianism in japan. It is NOT a pretty picture. You need to understand that admitting yourself to be deviant in any form in japanese society isn't just a tool to be picked on or whatever, it will actually severely damage your life. You will be denied friends, you will be denied jobs, and that's just the beginning.

sspit said:
RobertBobert said:

I would say how sexist you sound at the moment, but I'm too lazy to argue with you about anything, because I'm looking for 2-3 shows to close my get in 900 titles, lol.
I'll have you informed that all your arguments are invalid because my list weights 952 titles.
I'd say how that logic works at the moment, but I'm too lazy looking at my fabulous list.

All your notice me senpai memes finally paid off. I noticed you. Enjoy the glory.
I've seen more than either of you. Where's my medal? lol.
❀桜舞う空〜                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
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“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
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Oct 3, 8:47 AM

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@GenesisAria Firstly, Takarazuka herself was never directly related to lesbianism. It had a great influence on the development of this culture as a female theater, but unlike Japanese male theaters, it was not directly connected with this culture.

As for Niina x Momoko, then you confuse the current plot and speculation. People don't change sexuality just because someone nice to them and in theory could be a good couple with them, especially when you remember that Okada has already done exactly that message in True Tears. Not to mention the fact that such a turn would be a cheap romantic cliche and sharply contradicted Okada-sensei's attempts to be realistic and talk about a realistic experience. I understand that you love yuri and would like to see them together, but human sexuality doesn't work like that. You cannot suddenly become bisexual just because your gay friend was kind to you.

I don’t know what will be in the manga epilogue, but for now we can only say that they have become friends and support each other after an unsuccessful romantic experience. Niina is still experiencing the loss of Izumi, but Momoko is close by so that Niina is not alone with her emiotions.
Modified by RobertBobert, Oct 3, 9:02 AM
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Oct 3, 9:20 AM

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RobertBobert said:
@GenesisAria Firstly, Takarazuka herself was never directly related to lesbianism. It had a great influence on the development of this culture as a female theater, but unlike Japanese male theaters, it was not directly connected with this culture.
I was simply referring to the issues that were around it. There were many lesbian suicides due to the non-acceptance of lesbianism.

RobertBobert said:
As for Niina x Momoko, then you confuse the current plot and speculation. People don't change sexuality just because someone nice to them and in theory could be a good couple with them, especially when you remember that Okada has already done exactly that message in True Tears. Not to mention the fact that such a turn would be a cheap romantic cliche and sharply contradicted Okada-sensei's attempts to be realistic and talk about a realistic experience. I understand that you love yuri and would like to see them together, but human sexuality doesn't work like that. You cannot suddenly become bisexual just because your gay friend was kind to you.
A) I never said they had to have a sexual relationship.
B) We don't know for sure if Niina is actually straight only. Statistically speaking, a very significant percentage of humans are bi or bi-potential (being bi is far more common than strictly homo). Switching from hard straight to hard gay is usually a delusional reaction to psychological trauma, but realizing you have the ability to be bi-leaning or semi-pansexual is not even remotely out of the question.

RobertBobert said:
I don’t know what will be in the manga epilogue, but for now we can only say that they have become friends and support each other after an unsuccessful romantic experience. Niina is still experiencing the loss of Izumi, but Momoko is close by so that Niina is not alone with her emiotions.
I wasn't trying to force lesbianism into it at all, more saying that it's not ruled out, and if they were to just be friends, that is actually far more common of a cliche in anime: getting friend-zoned because of obstinate preconceptions.
❀桜舞う空〜                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
“You cannot know what you do not know.”
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
“A truth seeker has no patience for BS.”

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Oct 3, 9:35 AM

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@GenesisAria Pure statistics outside the actual plot is speculation. Not to mention that bisexuals are statistically smaller than straight or gay people. If it was a classic “everyone is bi” like CCS or Utena, or we were given hints that Niina is swinging in both directions, then that would make sense. But this is a story about a realistic romantic experience.

You know, you are much more likely to remain friends with one-sided crush than to get any person just by being persistent with them like in many BL or yuri. I understand that you are not YC with his obsessive belief that all girls are lesbians, but as a psychologist in real life, I really appreciate such works (and Okada-sensei in particular), so I don’t like the mix of realistic works and traditional anime cliche about "power of love".
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Oct 3, 9:53 AM

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RobertBobert said:
@GenesisAria Pure statistics outside the actual plot is speculation. Not to mention that bisexuals are statistically smaller than straight or gay people. If it was a classic “everyone is bi” like CCS or Utena, or we were given hints that Niina is swinging in both directions, then that would make sense. But this is a story about a realistic romantic experience.

You know, you are much more likely to remain friends with one-sided crush than to get any person just by being persistent with them like in many BL or yuri. I understand that you are not YC with his obsessive belief that all girls are lesbians, but as a psychologist in real life, I really appreciate such works (and Okada-sensei in particular), so I don’t like the mix of realistic works and traditional anime cliche about "power of love".
Recording statistics on bisexuality and pansexuality is extremely difficult due to the caveat i described, that is most people have no idea if they are bi-learning or pan-leaning until they've met someone good enough outside of what they think their orientation is to give them any wiggle room. For example a girl who is mostly straight but maybe bi-leaning, and thinks she is straight because all she has ever liked was guys, but if she met a girl that was just her type and was enough to tip the scale, she may find out she was actually bi-leaning, or at the very least that this particular person was the exception.

I respect if you are a psychologist irl, but i also respond to that with a degree of skepticism (due to my stark distrust in the education system and mainstream scientific institution). I'm not a psychologist by profession, but i do study psychology freeform (largely through observation and analysis) for hobby and for my fiction writing skillset (and applying to everyday life). I spent a lot of time in a very unique social environment known as VRChat. I knew from early on that any inquisitive psychologist would have a bloody field day studying people there, and this is for many reasons. The primary reason is the nature of the experience, which is inexplicably transformative for people. I've watched so many people change or discover themselves with an efficiency and frequency i didn't know was possible. It's like everyone going there had gone through a coming of age journey/test. I watched countless men INSIST they were straight, and then a couple months later, they are gay as can be with the rest of the gays, doing the gayest of things things in the gayest of ways using waifu avatars as a stepping stone to homosexuality. It's fucking weird. I'm not suggesting that straight people can convert gay or gay can convert straight, what is more likely is that they believed they were straight or were in a state of denial, only to discover that they were actually gay or actually bi or pansexual. I watched this turnover happen with dozens and dozens of people, it was practically rampant. There's a ton of other psychological anomalies present in the vr environment that are not so present elsewhere, but that is one of the biggest ones, and it is on this topic. Again, what i'm telling you is abductive reasoning based on observed facts.

With all that said, i was not implying power of love, i was implying a vessel for self-discovery.

Also-ultimately we all want to love and be loved, and there are people out there that can forsake sexual partnership for the sake of love, or have sexuality as something they do with sexfriends or something instead of their lover.... Things like this happen a lot more often in the modern world as people become more open minded in the subject.
Modified by GenesisAria, Oct 3, 10:01 AM
❀桜舞う空〜                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
“You cannot know what you do not know.”
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
“A truth seeker has no patience for BS.”

I seek only to improve myself and others.
 
Oct 3, 10:09 AM

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@GenesisAria I don't try blame you for simply trying to rationalize the satisfaction of your yuri fetishes. At the same time, I want to say that without any clear hints or clarifications from the author, this is nothing more than speculation. Even if we delve into science, it should still have roots in actual story and make sense in the framework of its events, and not be lazy "she suddenly responded to her feelings because bisexuals exist".

With exactly the same logic, we can assumed that Momoko was straight and just didn't understand her experience. Moreover, Momoko herself mentions this. But this will be pure speculation, because the actual plot doesn't concern this. If the manga epilogue is more open in this regard and justifies it, there is no problem. But at the moment I don't see anything more than speculation.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Oct 3, 10:57 AM

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@RobertBobert
You're assuming Momoko is not a lesbo?

Ehhh...

This is where i say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Making assumptions is extremely dangerous in any context or situations, because it leads to false understandings, even if the particular assumption happens to be correct (especially so). This is also where the yuri-bait-and-switch in Eupho drove me nuts, because the show went out of it's wait to paint them in a lesbionic light, only to slap you on the face that it was a ruse.

I wasn't trying to rationalize yuri fetishes, because yuri does not dominate my interests anymore, as it once did many years ago. To reveal Momoko as not a lesbo would be as insulting to me as the case in Eupho, where it went out of it's way to dangle "LOOK A LESBIAN" in front of you, just to take it away and say "HAH! it's just that thing where it's considered acceptable as young experimentation as long as they grow out of it" (i really wish i could remember what it's called in japan), which is what usually gets hammered out in narratives in japanese media when it's not explicitly exploring homosexuality for it's entertainment value. Much of japanese culture considers things like homosexuality to be a disorder or condition rather than an orientation, which is what makes them prone to dismissing it as something you can "grow out of". This actually makes it in complete contrast to what i was saying in that you shouldn't be able to grow out of anything, if anything you grow INTO something non-standard due to being raised by that standard and being unfamiliar of alternatives.

The things i've said are abductive reasoning - perhaps you should review the forms of reasoning before claiming things are blind speculation. Abductive reasoning is a reverse logic of finding out most likely conclusions based on the accumulated information. To say something like Momoko is not a lesbian goes against more evidence than it agrees with. If it does become true it's a subversion rather than a sound depiction. Momoko was questioning her interests due to what i stated before, the way japan sees homosexuality, it's oppressed as a dysfunction and not accepted. Also, i never said that Momoko will get with Niina, i said that they SHOULD get together, for very realistic reasons, which would enhance both of their self esteem and help eachother grow immensely and bond deeply. There is every reason to encourage it which has nothing to do with yuri fan-pairing.

I do very much encourage you to think about the evidence i describe in the VRChat case, as it is very informative on the subject of inconcrete sexuality in ways that are normally not present, due to the ability to crossdress avatars as stepping stones for stepping outside of boxes. It's similar to say a straight person getting together with a transsexual, that person was born the other sex, and then transitioned into a different appearance, which is analogized by the avatars, which gives people ample room to question their sexuality... and question they do. It even made me question myself a bit, despite knowing myself extremely well. You can research it by studying enough vrchat footage if you really want to spend the time, there's countless hours of it from many streamers and youtubers that can be used as data.
Modified by GenesisAria, Oct 3, 11:09 AM
❀桜舞う空〜                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
“You cannot know what you do not know.”
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
“A truth seeker has no patience for BS.”

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Oct 3, 11:13 AM

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@GenesisAria I want to say that through pure speculation and attempts to look into the future, you can get any deep conclusions you want, which at the same time have nothing to do with the actual plot. Especially if you intentionally or not begin to replace the actual motivation and thoughts of the characters with your own ideas about the ideal future for the characters and what they supposedly should do.

We don’t even have any hint that Niina may be bisexual, but you already say that she should become a couple with another girl for your ideas about the ideal ending for her. If we were talking about a lesbian girl and a guy with one-sided crush for her, then many even found it quite homophobic, just remember Sanae from Scum Wish. By the way, here is a good example of my position.

I like the dark melodrama and with exactly the same logic, I can assume that Niina will not be able to move over her loss, so she will seduce Izumi and get pregnant with his child. It sounds dramatic like a plot for agnsty teen drama, but it's purest speculation and an attempt to artificially direct the characters on an interesting route for me.
Modified by RobertBobert, Oct 3, 11:18 AM
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Oct 3, 11:23 AM

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RobertBobert said:
I like the dark melodrama and with exactly the same logic, I can assume that Niina will not be able to move over her loss, so she will seduce Izumi and get pregnant with his child. It sounds dramatic like a plot for agnsty teen drama, but it's purest speculation and an attempt to artificially direct the characters on an interesting route for me.
That route was already cut off by the events of the final episode. Izumi chose Kazusa, and his sexual attraction to Niina was purely because she is hot and he's a horny teen. He didn't want to push his sexuality on Kazusa and harm their relationship. Even if Niina did manage to somewhat seduce Izumi, Izumi would have the reaction Hitoha did with the teacher. Chicken out, but also he'd think of Kazusa and feel guilty and wouldn't be able to do it. Sooo once again by abductive reasoning, that premise is easy to dismiss given logical basis. Your speculative hypothesis is disproven by evidence already in the story, whereas mine is not disproven, it's merely a question and i give my reasoning why it would be a good thing. That is all.

ps: Kuzu no Honkai's conclusion irritated me to a degree as well... for many reasons, but the lesbo-acting girl being one of them yes.
trust me, i'd be just as irritated if they did the same thing with gay guys, i'm just not into BL, so i don't have much to reference there.
...or any orientation for that matter.
Modified by GenesisAria, Oct 3, 11:38 AM
❀桜舞う空〜                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
“You cannot know what you do not know.”
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
“A truth seeker has no patience for BS.”

I seek only to improve myself and others.
 
Oct 3, 11:41 AM

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GenesisAria said:
RobertBobert said:
I like the dark melodrama and with exactly the same logic, I can assume that Niina will not be able to move over her loss, so she will seduce Izumi and get pregnant with his child. It sounds dramatic like a plot for agnsty teen drama, but it's purest speculation and an attempt to artificially direct the characters on an interesting route for me.
That route was already cut off by the events of the final episode. Izumi chose Kazusa, and his sexual attraction to Niina was purely because she is hot and he's a horny teen. He didn't want to push his sexuality on Kazusa and harm their relationship. Even if Niina did manage to somewhat seduce Izumi, Izumi would have the reaction Hitoha did with the teacher. Chicken out, but also he'd think of Kazusa and feel guilty and wouldn't be able to do it. Sooo once again by abductive reasoning, that premise is easy to dismiss given logical basis. Your speculative hypothesis is disproven by evidence already in the story, whereas mine is not disproven, it's merely a question and i give my reasoning why it would be a good thing. That is all.

ps: Kuzu no Honkai's conclusion irritated me to a degree as well... for many reasons, but the lesbo-acting girl being one of them yes.


I do not agree. If we were already speculating, we can recall that Niina is an extremely hot girl and that Izumi is attracted to her enough to bother him in the context of his feelings for Kazusa. In addition, we know that she is not afraid to seduce other's boyfriends and judging by the epilogue, she still holds feelings for him. I am more than sure that this route will never become a reality, but stuff like "I love you, but she is too hot" is a typical fuel for most cheating subplots.

I can even predict how this could develop in the future, but it doesn't matter. Both of our “hypotheses” are nothing more than speculation through attempts to look into the future on the basis of available material. We have different views on what could be a “good thing” (Well, well, an illegitimate child at 16 from someone else's boyfriend is not the most good thing) or an interesting twist for the characters, and this is normal, but I don't think that this should affect the perception of the actual plot.
Level of my english is still too poor, so ask not particularly angry because of my terrible grammar.
 
Oct 3, 12:04 PM

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@RobertBobert
Not really, your speculative hypothesis has flaws in it, like i said, there is already plenty of indication and reason to presume that Izumi wouldn't be able to be fully seduced by Niina. Most cheating subplots don't result in illegitimate childs (and often not even real intercourse), at least not in akiba media. It looks to me like you are trying to shoehorn your taste for drama into it haha. What are you doing criticizing my reasoning for a yuri subplot for given this being the case lol.

I presented my premise with it's constituents based on a number of evidences and more than one precedent within the existing narrative, as a basis for my abductive hypothesis. I didn't even extrapolate much, it's just continuing the already dangling thread. Your hypothesis requires more extrapolation, an some subversion as well.
❀桜舞う空〜                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
“You cannot know what you do not know.”
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
“A truth seeker has no patience for BS.”

I seek only to improve myself and others.
 
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