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Poll: Carole & Tuesday Episode 22 Discussion


#1
Sep 18, 9:30 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Nice. Carole and Tuesday got a professional to work with them.

Interestingly enough, it seems the Grammy takes place around Christmas. I hope they succeed. It's kinda anxious for them with the amount of pressure but I believe anything is possible. The birthday song was cute lol

Hope Angela can get her life back together.
 
#2
Sep 18, 9:42 AM

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Meeting w. Sakamoto-san's character and the staff from Grammy.

The news about ex-child actress. But first needs to finish that song w. the artist they collaborates with.

Light in darkness. After few tries, Sakamoto-san's character likes it.

And it's Carole's b-day.

ex-child actress decided to attend Grammy even under her condition and situation. Mother died, though.

23 years since holding in Mars, huh.

Their performance is first.

Mamo's character announces the winner for new artists. ex-child actress winning it, and w. her performance. Then fell after first verse. Probably because of weak condition from lack of nutrition. ED while sending her to hospital.

It looks like Alisa, the vocalist of ex-child actress, wrote the song from this ep. herself.
http://caroleandtuesday.com/music/onairlist/

25:05 next.
Modified by tsubasalover, Sep 18, 9:50 AM
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
 
#3
Sep 19, 4:47 AM
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Poor Angela. It was just heartbreaking watching her, especially that performance. I hope she'll be okay. I really hope Carole and Tuesday somehow become friends with her. She's so alone.
Good thing Dahlia gained consciousness briefly to tell Angela that she was sorry, and that she truly loved her even if Angela wasn't her biological child. Angela needed to hear that. I didn't catch where Angela was adopted from. Will wait for subs to find out.

When Ertegun said that true friends were the ones who come to your aid when you need them, for a moment I thought he was going to announce Roddy's name. lol Nope, for that occasion it was more appropriate for it to be Tao.
 
#4
Sep 19, 9:14 AM

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Damn that ending....poor Angela. Though her winning best new artist was a bit underwhelming (I'd prefer Ezekiel)

Tao and Ertegun friends, huh? Guess they bonded somewhere over beatboxing

Carol and Tuesday put up a really nice performance (together with Flora's cover my favourite of them so far). Didn't like Angela's song, though her dress was really nice
 
#5
Sep 19, 9:42 AM
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The ending song was dope
 
#6
Sep 19, 9:47 AM
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What a plot twist that Angela's Mama passed away just on the award day. She was living for the purpose of that moment for a long time.
 
#7
Sep 19, 10:05 AM

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Wow After the Fire was a splendid song, really liked it. Also i feel really bad for angela, never expected that her life would take such a dramatic turn.
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#8
Sep 19, 10:07 AM

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Looks like Spencer is gonna have a bad time. Honestly I couldn't care less for all that politics stuff
But if that was what it took for them all to give such grand performances- so be it.

Carole & Tuesday ft. Crystal was literally fire, fire fire.
Liked Carole's voice best there

And Angela's performance was... Well.. heart tearing? I don't know what to say, it's just so terrible. The last scene especially. Get well soon

“I don’t like expending more effort than I have to.” – Ayanokouji Kiyotaka
 
#9
Sep 19, 10:14 AM
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Jesus that was a haunting episode O____O

I actually felt physically sick after it but in a good way it was that powerful and I really do feel for Angela to be honest.

I'm definitely curious where these 2 final episodes will lead up to though in all honesty and/ or if we'll get a second season considering how much they have to answer on all ends. Hands down one of my favorite anime's this year.
 
Sep 19, 10:41 AM

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Poor Angela I feel sorry for her, she came to the grammys despite that to sing. You gotta appreciate that, hope she gets well soon and bounce back up.

Aside from that C&T really worked hard to compose the song, Tuesday gave Carole a birthday present that was really sweet.

And collaboration of C&T with Crystal was too was too damn good, it was lit.
 
Sep 19, 10:45 AM

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Carole and Tuesday feat. Krystal was a very nice song and performance.
Angela's was solid too. Didn't expect Dahlia to die, and for her take it to the heart she would end up in that state after performing.
 
Sep 19, 10:50 AM

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Oh my god it was such a heartwarming episode until Angela literally collapsed. Studio Bones pls give her a break!!! Would love to see her make peace with herself and find her happy ending.
 
Sep 19, 11:17 AM

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Holy shit, All these things getting thrown at Angela from all sides. I'm surprised she was able to even sing. That ending was really painful to watch as we see a barely conscious Angela getting to the hospital.

After the fire was... FIRE, it was quite the great song. Angela's songs were... knife twisting ;_;
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Sep 19, 11:21 AM
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After the Fire was one heck of a song and performance. I'm gonna have to invest in the Carole and Tuesday OST's it seems. So many songs.

Poor Angela. That was one heck of an ending.
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Sep 19, 11:34 AM

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Seems like she made her own song at the end of it describing how she felt.
Hope she's gonna be ok.
Also great performance from C&T with Crystal
 
Sep 19, 11:56 AM

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Both songs were great but that ending, THAT ENDING!

Also Tuesday looked super cute in that black dress!
 
Sep 19, 11:56 AM
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Great songs . Shocking seeing Angela collapse after her song
 
Sep 19, 11:57 AM

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No offense to the singer but Crystal's singing voice would've been better if they just used Maaya Sakamoto for that as well as her speaking voice.
Why replace a professional? She's not even a better singer than Maaya -even in English

Really not sure what everyone liked about "After the Fire". It's really not a good song aside from the lyrics.After the Fire had good lyrics but the melody was extremely basic and repetitive. Not something I could listen to very often. Not a great song at all.



The fake accent Angela's singer has still drives me up a wall. She's a great singer but that shit ruins it. I hate that it's such a big fad in the West.


The actual plot moved well. Not sure how they're gonna deal with all the political stuff in only two episodes... Though I'm imagining Tuesday speaking out against her own mother would really damage her.
 
Sep 19, 12:08 PM

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Kougeru said:

Really not sure what everyone liked about "After the Fire". It's really not a good song aside from the lyrics.After the Fire had good lyrics but the melody was extremely basic and repetitive. Not something I could listen to very often. Not a great song at all.


It felt grand. It felt triumphant (especially considering how they came up). It felt hopeful. Most importantly it sounded good. Shit's dope.
 
Sep 19, 12:19 PM

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That jokes about Valerie were fun.
Other than that nice development in this episode. Finally nearing the end and still progressing slowly.

Crystal knows about the political stuff the girls probably haven't fully realized yet. (That's why she wanted that specific topic for the song.) With Angela collapsing and her mother's death the more serious stuff now reaches the girls.

Tao and the advisor guy still aren't in full action. I guess next episode that guy will find out about Spencer helping the journalist while on the other side Tao will get some hacked infos - interesting showdown. I wonder how the girls will be involved in this. (Maybe they just aren't and just make music so the people can be happy in times of trouble.)

Ertegun considers Tao a friend.
 
Sep 19, 12:20 PM

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Kougeru said:
The fake accent Angela's singer has still drives me up a wall. She's a great singer but that shit ruins it.

Fake accent? the singer Alisa is from Australia and has a bit of an accent when she talks in English.

 
Sep 19, 12:25 PM
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Angela's song was both heartbreaking and beautiful. The jazz/blues-type sound really suits her voice. So sad that her mother died. Didnt expect that at all. I'm assuming she overdosed on drugs? Hope she can be with Tao, and find friends in Carole and Tuesday. Most importantly, get to a place where she is happy.
 
Sep 19, 12:27 PM
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Kougeru said:
No offense to the singer but Crystal's singing voice would've been better if they just used Maaya Sakamoto for that as well as her speaking voice.
Why replace a professional? She's not even a better singer than Maaya -even in English

Really not sure what everyone liked about "After the Fire". It's really not a good song aside from the lyrics.After the Fire had good lyrics but the melody was extremely basic and repetitive. Not something I could listen to very often. Not a great song at all.



The fake accent Angela's singer has still drives me up a wall. She's a great singer but that shit ruins it. I hate that it's such a big fad in the West.


The actual plot moved well. Not sure how they're gonna deal with all the political stuff in only two episodes... Though I'm imagining Tuesday speaking out against her own mother would really damage her.



I dont think they can wrap everything up in 2 episodes which means they are planning for a second season...?
 
Sep 19, 12:51 PM

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Damn this episode really turned dark with that ending. Can't believe Dahila really died. RIP
Hope Angela gets back well soon. Her song was really sad.

On the other hand we finally get the much awaited Crystal X Carole & Tuesday collab. The song was on fire!!
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Sep 19, 12:55 PM

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this sure got dark fast,and i preferred angels song to c&t.
its more raw and true (for my personal taste) and its got a certain vibe to considering everything we have seen Angela go through,im guessing she possibly over dosed and/or tried to kill her self (it isnt showed but overdose,every thing going wrong,losing ur one and only loved one + plus her lyrics? it all matches up to me)

i got nostalgic when she Carole me tioned singing on the brudge,the serues was so fun and shiny and happy i couldn't of imagined this outcome,not saying its bad im just surprised!

over all it was a v sad episode,it just felt like pure despair and sadness


"those who aren't able to find a more miserable person than themselves turn to the internet and call others losers,even though they've never met"- Satou from nhk
 
Sep 19, 1:28 PM

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I didn't expect the Grammy night to arrive so fast, or Dahlia's death, but this episode was quite something alright. I'm glad that Carole, and Tuesday got to sing with someone they admire. I also liked Ertegun's speech, about how music has always been with us, and how it has to be free. I was a bit disappointed that the friend he mentioned was Tao instead of Roddy though, but I guess Tao also helped him get back on his feet thanks to Angela. Oh, and Jerry caught on to Kyle, and Spencer's movements. They might be in danger.

But Angela. Poor Angela. Her song was amazing, but it carried so much pain and solitude. Tao didn't care, and her cry for help wasn't heard. She had to go through the worst days of her life by herself. Watching the mother she knew die leaving behind only a name, left with no one to turn to, and no shoulder to cry on. And then she collapsed. That ending, I don't even know if it was already another song or just a continuation of the one she sang, but the atmosphere while she received medical aid was so heavy, it felt like she was dying. I guess I will have to remain on the edge of my seat until next Thursday.
 
Sep 19, 1:31 PM
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Everything is happening so fast that this is feeling quite underwhelming.
 
Sep 19, 2:00 PM
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There is so much in this episode that disturbed me. I was disgusted watching all the Mars celebrities sit there cracking political jokes and basically using Carole & Tuesday as puppets to try to push their political views when the girls don't even fully understand their place in that or why Crystal wanted them to sing that kind of song. I feel like the industry is using them, and it's irregardless of whether their political views are justified or not. It's just petty to sit there cracking political jabs at a candidate while people within their own industry like Angela were suffering through so much with no support (so ironic too since she's the new artist of the year and the talk of the industry), and of course there are seemingly victims of poverty and the political climate as well who aren't mentioned and don't have a voice. It really feels like it shows the privilege of celebrity elites to be able to sit at their fancy, elaborate awards shows in expensive clothing and make cracks about the world while outside people suffer. Meanwhile, Angela seems to have written her own song for the first time. It feels like a bit of a role reversal, where she was the one being used by the industry previously but now Carole and Tuesday are.

I don't know if the After the Fire was really meant to come off as having been truly inspirational or what we were supposed to feel. A big problem I have with this show is I often can't tell what it is we're supposed to be feeling. Were my feelings of disgust toward the elites intended? Or were we supposed to be moved and feel all these artists are inspiring the world? It's hard to, when in real life and in Hollywood there is so much hypocrisy and lip service. Anyway, the song was really generic and I didn't care for it. Angela's Light a Fire is more moving to me. Her performance on this episode was haunting and beautiful as well. I prefer it over C&T's.

And on that note, this really has become "The Angela Show". To me, it feels like Carole & Tuesday aren't even the main characters in regards to the show's writing. Angela is way more fleshed out as a character and has more believable and dynamic struggles. C&T just sort of float through everything with lots of luck, support, and coincidences on their side, and almost no consequences to them personally when they have failures. Everyone else around them gets hurt, but they rarely do, and when they do, it's resolved too quickly (like Cybele's attack or Valerie kidnapping Tuesday) or over something trivial (like Tuesday's poorly established crush on the reporter).

Idk what to think. I'm not expecting a lot from the ending, but I am very glad the show has shifted to focus so much on Angela because she has been the most compelling character in this show since midway through the first arc. I clapped when she won the award. She deserves it. I do still hope that in the end she becomes friends with C&T and collaborates with them. I get what C&T are supposed to represent: hope, new energy, creativity, faith in yourself, ability to inspire others, etc. but as characters they are still so stereotypical and not as complex as ones like Angela.

I've been predicting the 7 Minute Miracle will also involve Angela in some way as a plot twist, but now that she's laid up I don't know. I also predict that the final episode's title will be "Imagine" by John Lennon, or something similar. Just throwing out some guesses. I REALLY can't wait for this show to end b/c so much of the messaging has felt vague or gray that I want to know where they're going with all this

P.S. Lol Keanu Reeves cameo
 
Sep 19, 2:01 PM
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FuMomo-kun said:
Everything is happening so fast that this is feeling quite underwhelming.


I wish it would've been made into 2 seasons
 
Sep 19, 2:13 PM
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I'd also just like to add, this show has a problem of constantly breaking the filmmaking rule "show, don't tell". The premise of the show on the website and elsewhere says it's about the struggle of music artists C&T trying to write their own music and succeed in a world where music is made by AI and people are passive consumers of it. That theme was never meaningfully explored in the show. It just fell by the wayside with only a couple of mentions shoehorned in (like the judge on Mars Brightest mentioning something about them writing their own music and being skeptical about it). Glad Ertegun was there in this episode to tell us "music has no rules" and don't be pretentious about what styles of music are valid or not, b/c the show's plot never really dug into this much. Sarcasm aside though, Ertegun's speech is another instance where they needed to "show, don't tell" and just feels stuck in there to make the point that the story itself didn't make clearly. There weren't enough characters reacting to the supposed phenomenon of C&T being one of the few artists left to write their own songs. It was barely ever mentioned and instead we got the political plotlines. It does seem the writer has tried to subvert our expectations and that the real struggle was not the world in this show needing to accept Carole & Tuesday's self-written music, but the viewers of the show needing to accept that A.I. produced music (which is already common in the industry) can still move people (hence Angela winning new artist of the year).

I just have a lot of problems with the expectation vs. reality of this show, because they've ignored a lot of the conventions of writing, and as much as they want to argue that art is free and there are no rules, it doesn't mean there are no skills to build, methods to convey things effectively, techniques to master, etc. You can bang on pots and pans and call it music, or rattle on about your day and call it a story, but it takes mastery of the conventions of music and storytelling to really reach a lot of people. Who's being pretentious here? Seems like the creators want to say we audience members are, when it may indeed be the writers of this show, who present a very jumbled story and expect us to be floored and changed by it. The emotional heft of the songs is inconsistent too. Desmond's song as he was dying was more impactful than Carole & Tuesday's collab with Crystal. The emotional peaks of the show come in such random waves that they never reach a true high, at least in the second half.
Modified by ShiningLion, Sep 19, 2:17 PM
 
Sep 19, 2:18 PM

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Man, what an episode :( Angela wasn't in her best conditions and still sang at the Awards. She have my respect. Hope she gets better soon.
 
Sep 19, 2:25 PM
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This series is moving way too fast. I am going to echo the same sentiment and say it needed a second season. The characters could have all been fleshed out properly and there would be less underwhelming moments. That being said, it is almost over so them rushing towards the ending at this point is not all that surprising.

Tuesday's sudden transition into Happy Birthday, was the most disjointed experience I have had with the series in regards to songs being sung by English speaking actors.

Angela's story line is not at all surprising but winning the Grammy, and the performance proceeding it, was totally unexpected. Her meltdown at the Grammys will live on in Mars pop-culture for a longtime.

Some predictions for the end of the series: Jerry and Tao will go head to head behind the scenes, Tuesday and Spencer will confront their mother publicly, Angela will probably reunite with Tao, Carole and Ezekiel will end up together, and Carole's father will probably make one final appearance. Of course Carole and Tuesday's first album will come out and most likely break music industry records making up for their Grammy loss.

When all is said and done I'm pretty settled on a 7/10, even if the final two episodes are fantastic it cannot make up for the many underwhelming moments. Will definitely rewatch it in English when that is released.
 
Sep 19, 2:27 PM

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I didn't like the Carole & Tuesday's song because after all they went throught they just made run-of-the-mill pop-song with terrible repeating lyrics.

But the episode was still great, one of the best, not only because of Angela (quite depressing and heavy atmosphere that was) but because its main focus was mood and the feelings of main protagonists which is what the whole series should have been about from the start.
 
Sep 19, 2:37 PM
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ShiningLion said:
There is so much in this episode that disturbed me. I was disgusted watching all the Mars celebrities sit there cracking political jokes and basically using Carole & Tuesday as puppets to try to push their political views when the girls don't even fully understand their place in that or why Crystal wanted them to sing that kind of song. I feel like the industry is using them, and it's irregardless of whether their political views are justified or not. It's just petty to sit there cracking political jabs at a candidate while people within their own industry like Angela were suffering through so much with no support (so ironic too since she's the new artist of the year and the talk of the industry), and of course there are seemingly victims of poverty and the political climate as well who aren't mentioned and don't have a voice. It really feels like it shows the privilege of celebrity elites to be able to sit at their fancy, elaborate awards shows in expensive clothing and make cracks about the world while outside people suffer. Meanwhile, Angela seems to have written her own song for the first time. It feels like a bit of a role reversal, where she was the one being used by the industry previously but now Carole and Tuesday are.

I don't know if the After the Fire was really meant to come off as having been truly inspirational or what we were supposed to feel. A big problem I have with this show is I often can't tell what it is we're supposed to be feeling. Were my feelings of disgust toward the elites intended? Or were we supposed to be moved and feel all these artists are inspiring the world? It's hard to, when in real life and in Hollywood there is so much hypocrisy and lip service. Anyway, the song was really generic and I didn't care for it. Angela's Light a Fire is more moving to me. Her performance on this episode was haunting and beautiful as well. I prefer it over C&T's.

And on that note, this really has become "The Angela Show". To me, it feels like Carole & Tuesday aren't even the main characters in regards to the show's writing. Angela is way more fleshed out as a character and has more believable and dynamic struggles. C&T just sort of float through everything with lots of luck, support, and coincidences on their side, and almost no consequences to them personally when they have failures. Everyone else around them gets hurt, but they rarely do, and when they do, it's resolved too quickly (like Cybele's attack or Valerie kidnapping Tuesday) or over something trivial (like Tuesday's poorly established crush on the reporter).

Idk what to think. I'm not expecting a lot from the ending, but I am very glad the show has shifted to focus so much on Angela because she has been the most compelling character in this show since midway through the first arc. I clapped when she won the award. She deserves it. I do still hope that in the end she becomes friends with C&T and collaborates with them. I get what C&T are supposed to represent: hope, new energy, creativity, faith in yourself, ability to inspire others, etc. but as characters they are still so stereotypical and not as complex as ones like Angela.

I've been predicting the 7 Minute Miracle will also involve Angela in some way as a plot twist, but now that she's laid up I don't know. I also predict that the final episode's title will be "Imagine" by John Lennon, or something similar. Just throwing out some guesses. I REALLY can't wait for this show to end b/c so much of the messaging has felt vague or gray that I want to know where they're going with all this

P.S. Lol Keanu Reeves cameo
ShiningLion said:
I'd also just like to add, this show has a problem of constantly breaking the filmmaking rule "show, don't tell". The premise of the show on the website and elsewhere says it's about the struggle of music artists C&T trying to write their own music and succeed in a world where music is made by AI and people are passive consumers of it. That theme was never meaningfully explored in the show. It just fell by the wayside with only a couple of mentions shoehorned in (like the judge on Mars Brightest mentioning something about them writing their own music and being skeptical about it). Glad Ertegun was there in this episode to tell us "music has no rules" and don't be pretentious about what styles of music are valid or not, b/c the show's plot never really dug into this much. Sarcasm aside though, Ertegun's speech is another instance where they needed to "show, don't tell" and just feels stuck in there to make the point that the story itself didn't make clearly. There weren't enough characters reacting to the supposed phenomenon of C&T being one of the few artists left to write their own songs. It was barely ever mentioned and instead we got the political plotlines. It does seem the writer has tried to subvert our expectations and that the real struggle was not the world in this show needing to accept Carole & Tuesday's self-written music, but the viewers of the show needing to accept that A.I. produced music (which is already common in the industry) can still move people (hence Angela winning new artist of the year).

I just have a lot of problems with the expectation vs. reality of this show, because they've ignored a lot of the conventions of writing, and as much as they want to argue that art is free and there are no rules, it doesn't mean there are no skills to build, methods to convey things effectively, techniques to master, etc. You can bang on pots and pans and call it music, or rattle on about your day and call it a story, but it takes mastery of the conventions of music and storytelling to really reach a lot of people. Who's being pretentious here? Seems like the creators want to say we audience members are, when it may indeed be the writers of this show, who present a very jumbled story and expect us to be floored and changed by it. The emotional heft of the songs is inconsistent too. Desmond's song as he was dying was more impactful than Carole & Tuesday's collab with Crystal. The emotional peaks of the show come in such random waves that they never reach a true high, at least in the second half.
This is great criticism of the show, captures how I feel about most of it.
 
Sep 19, 2:37 PM

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It just occurred to me that the girls are almost literal tools to be abused by Gus and the others to do their bidding. Gus says do that, they go and do it, Crystal says change the song, the go and change it. When was the last time they did anything out of their own free will? The show is supposed to be about creative freedom and the power to inspire people. It's ironic how the main duo is a personification of the opposite.
On the contrary, Angela breaks free from captivity by not only doing something on her own for the first time, but also by writing and performing her own song, despite being in clear emotional distress.
Is this intended? For some reason I doubt it.
 
Sep 19, 3:00 PM

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TheDopplerEffect said:
When was the last time they did anything out of their own free will?.


When Gus told Carole & Tuesday to not see ezekiel 2 episodes ago because he is a gangster and Tuesday told Carole about that, but went to she him anyway and nothing bad happened to her.

Sure Angela breaks free for the 1st time but now she’s The Loneliest Girl 🤔
 
Sep 19, 3:05 PM

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Old_School_Akira said:
TheDopplerEffect said:
When was the last time they did anything out of their own free will?.


When Gus told Carole & Tuesday to not see ezekiel 2 episodes ago because he is a gangster and Tuesday told Carole about that, but went to she him anyway and nothing bad happened to her.

Sure Angela breaks free for the 1st time but now she’s The Loneliest Girl 🤔


She always was the loneliest girl, In my opinion.

When I was talking about their decisions, I meant specifically about their careers, sorry I hadn't made that clear. Of course they do stuff outside of that, but the show's about them as singers first and foremost.
 
Sep 19, 3:46 PM

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TheDopplerEffect said:
It just occurred to me that the girls are almost literal tools to be abused by Gus and the others to do their bidding. Gus says do that, they go and do it, Crystal says change the song, the go and change it. When was the last time they did anything out of their own free will? The show is supposed to be about creative freedom and the power to inspire people. It's ironic how the main duo is a personification of the opposite.
On the contrary, Angela breaks free from captivity by not only doing something on her own for the first time, but also by writing and performing her own song, despite being in clear emotional distress.
Is this intended? For some reason I doubt it.


Wait so Carole and Tuesday didn't write their own songs? I recall from the very first episode that they Wanted to be well known musicians.
 
Sep 19, 3:58 PM

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MiiyoSon said:
TheDopplerEffect said:
It just occurred to me that the girls are almost literal tools to be abused by Gus and the others to do their bidding. Gus says do that, they go and do it, Crystal says change the song, the go and change it. When was the last time they did anything out of their own free will? The show is supposed to be about creative freedom and the power to inspire people. It's ironic how the main duo is a personification of the opposite.
On the contrary, Angela breaks free from captivity by not only doing something on her own for the first time, but also by writing and performing her own song, despite being in clear emotional distress.
Is this intended? For some reason I doubt it.


Wait so Carole and Tuesday didn't write their own songs? I recall from the very first episode that they Wanted to be well known musicians.


They did write their songs in the first couple of episodes. But after a while they got this old guy in a hat telling them to redo the songs over and over until he was satisfied. And now we have Crystal, who, in the montage, is clearly shown to reject a couple of their drafts until she was satisfied with the result.
At this point the question becomes wether or not this even counts as writing something yourself. I mean, technically they did it themselves, but was that really supposed to be the message? Just listen to the others and do what they say?
 
Sep 19, 4:13 PM

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TheDopplerEffect said:
MiiyoSon said:


Wait so Carole and Tuesday didn't write their own songs? I recall from the very first episode that they Wanted to be well known musicians.


They did write their songs in the first couple of episodes. But after a while they got this old guy in a hat telling them to redo the songs over and over until he was satisfied. And now we have Crystal, who, in the montage, is clearly shown to reject a couple of their drafts until she was satisfied with the result.
At this point the question becomes wether or not this even counts as writing something yourself. I mean, technically they did it themselves, but was that really supposed to be the message? Just listen to the others and do what they say?


So Toby's job isn't supposed to make sure that their work is polished? Or that Crystal's job isn't to make sure she's singing with other artist who can't hang with her?

Also Gus gave C&T an option in ep 13?

Money or freedom? They chose both. To continue as indie artists. Meaning they were going to need a lot of help (like Angela) to make it big as artist.
 
Sep 19, 4:14 PM

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I have a very ominous feeling about their "miraculous 7 minutes", now that we're just getting into the setup for both Carole and Tuesday to gain their fame. Plus the fact that people are writing songs in their behalf instead of them taking control of their own is just mirroring their intentions from the start. And yes it's true that music needs a collaboration, but the way C&T does it is haphazarding at best, concerning the 2nd half that is.

For Angela, it's clear that she still is suffering from emotional distress, but tries her very best to not show that face irregardless of the amount of trouble she has went through. The loss of her manager Dahlia, the missing Tao who refuses to reply to her, everything seems downhill.

The Grammy Awards seem like the perfect stage for Carole and Tuesday, seeking that these final 3 episodes are what's left to give a story substance to.
Furthermore, their version of Angela's "After the Fire" seem more tame than the outburst that is Angela's original, but with Crystal's collab, all is well and fine.

When Angela managed to come on-screen, it was heart wrenching from start to finish. Her song left unfinished till her eventual collapse, and that ending song echoing the darkness that's engulfed her life up to this point. Really hate to see Angela go, from being the rival to someone who's exhausted from the business. She's The Loneliest Girl now.
 
Sep 19, 4:20 PM

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Angela story feel like something from a drama and that she is the real heroine of this anime.
 
Sep 19, 4:22 PM

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MiiyoSon said:
TheDopplerEffect said:


They did write their songs in the first couple of episodes. But after a while they got this old guy in a hat telling them to redo the songs over and over until he was satisfied. And now we have Crystal, who, in the montage, is clearly shown to reject a couple of their drafts until she was satisfied with the result.
At this point the question becomes wether or not this even counts as writing something yourself. I mean, technically they did it themselves, but was that really supposed to be the message? Just listen to the others and do what they say?


So Toby's job isn't supposed to make sure that their work is polished? Or that Crystal's job isn't to make sure she's singing with other artist who can't hang with her?

Also Gus gave C&T an option in ep 13?

Money or freedom? They chose both. To continue as indie artists. Meaning they were going to need a lot of help (like Angela) to make it big as artist.


The question isn't what their role in the story is, the question is what narrative impact it has. Which is what I was trying to say all this time.
Consider this. the basic premise of the show is as follows: in the world where all of the music is written by the AIs, two girls meet by chance, and they are set to make a change in this trend. So the story clearly paints our protagonists as the underdogs trying to make it big in the harsh world of music.
So how do they achieve it? By meeting some old dude who sets everything up for them, then another one who helps them to make their music into what he thinks to be good. How exactly are they different from everyone else? Where's the struggle? Where is the expression of their artistic freedom?

Case in point, when regarding C&T's career decisions, Gus made the following ones: they play in a bar, they go to the music festival, they attend the talent show, they refuse the label deal, they meet the producer, they attend another music festival... You get my idea. You are right to say that this is his role in the story. I'm just saying that the story is crap.
 
Sep 19, 5:10 PM

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TheDopplerEffect said:
So the story clearly paints our protagonists as the underdogs trying to make it big in the harsh world of music.
So how do they achieve it? By meeting some old dude who sets everything up for them, then another one who helps them to make their music into what he thinks to be good. How exactly are they different from everyone else? Where's the struggle? Where is the expression of their artistic freedom?


I repeat Tobe is there to make sure that their songs are polished. He's not writing the songs or playing the instruments for them. That's C&T's job like we have seen through multiple different montages. This is a key part. I would agree with you if Tobe made them use AI like most artist in the show but that's not the case.


TheDopplerEffect said:

regarding C&T's career decisions, Gus made the following ones: they play in a bar, they go to the music festival, they attend the talent show, they refuse the label deal, they meet the producer, they attend another music festival... You get my idea?


No. I don't. Gus is their music manager. His job is to make sure C&T's names get out there and to make sure that, since they decided that they wanted but money and freedom, they will be able to keep their creative freedom while earning as much as they can.
TheDopplerEffect said:
I'm just saying that the story is crap.

I Disagree
Modified by MiiyoSon, Sep 19, 5:52 PM
 
Sep 19, 5:37 PM

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Oh look, Steve Aoki
 
Sep 19, 5:51 PM
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So Angela had that song planned? I don't get it. Was she planning on singing that depressing song from the start or did she just make it up on the ride to the place where the Grammy's were held. That's the only thing I didn't like about this episode and it lessened the impact from when Angela fell on stage.
 
Sep 19, 8:12 PM

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the entire ending with angela including her performance gave me chills, especially the song after her performance that was very haunting/eerie
and that scene she was sitting in her dark apartment staring into space with the police sirens going off in the background jesus i could feel her emptiness just through that small scene

also really liked c&t's new song. it's the only one i've liked aside from the loneliest girl tbh
tuesday being all fidgety until it reached 12am just to sing carole hbd was also very very CUTE
Modified by wank, Sep 19, 9:08 PM
 
Sep 19, 8:29 PM

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I mean people thinking it is only the Angela show are forgetting Carole could be deported and Tuesday's mom could be the president. They're not in the background. It is jsut that their stuff isn't as impactful as Angela which I argee granted the current character arc and development for Carole has been really good. I think Tuesday has been lacking in parts.

Now do we need a season 2? I am going to say maybe for I. I don't know if they could finish everything in two episodes, but a 12 episode second season may be a good idea to flesh out everything and wrap everything up.

This was a great episode and I feel like I care for everyone in involve. am in love with this series and I hope Angela is okay. This drama has been very hot and spicy.

Edit: Also lol people not understanding the job of a producer and manager are. Let me explain this for you guys who just listen to OPS/Eds. The job of a producer is to polished your songs and make sure they are ready to played in public or for the radio. The job of a manger is to get your next out there and make sure you're not getting fuck over by crappy deals. Carole and Tuesday have written and created all of their songs. How do people not understand this?
Modified by MasterHavik, Sep 19, 8:32 PM
Studio Trigger is like that food you always want but hate when it is sold out in the stores. That's how good Studio Trigger is.
 
Sep 19, 9:42 PM

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Crystal is literally wearing the identical dress that Taylor Swift wore one year to the Grammy's. Looks a bit more sparkly in the anime but it's legit identical. Same shoes too, tho they're slightly cut off in the Crystal pic.


 
Sep 19, 9:44 PM

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Gotta be honest, after listening to such good song, Angela winning the award in the end was indeed quite underwhelming to see.

And by the way, Ertegun talking about true friends and naming Tao instead of my boy Roddy is pure bulllshit.

Now, that said, it was being a quite average episode until C&T's performance and well, the subsequent dramatic presentation of Angela.
Regarding C&T, their presentation was actually quite great but I still think it could have been more meaningful if they would have done it without Crystal. That's just me tho, and since they didn't won in the end, it doesn't matter anymore.
And about Angela... she has clearly reached bottom but I can't say I care about her. As I said in the previous episode, I feel completely disappointed with the way how her character was "developed" during this second cour. The Stalker issue was lame as shit and this sudden revelation about her not being Dahlia's daughter was so random I couldn't take it seriously. A real shame since her character looked so promising in the beginning.

Anyways, there are still two episodes remaining and I really wonder how the studio will manage to give a proper closure to all the plot lines this series has in the air...
Modified by SouthRzVa, Sep 19, 9:48 PM
 
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