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#1
Sep 12, 7:36 AM

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I think for a character to be complex, they need to have many layers to their personality, as well as, contradictions. The best example I can think of Shinji Ikari: generally, he's a very timid, obedient kid, but then he sometimes displays a more rebellious attitude towards authority. He wants to become close to other people, but is afraid to do so. Shinji to me is a character who genuinely feels like an actual person I'd know in real life, and that's why I think he's complex.
Can you think of any other examples of characters you'd consider to be complex? If so, why?
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
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#2
Sep 12, 9:55 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
I think for a character to be complex, they need to have many layers to their personality, as well as, contradictions. The best example I can think of Shinji Ikari: generally, he's a very timid, obedient kid, but then he sometimes displays a more rebellious attitude towards authority. He wants to become close to other people, but is afraid to do so. Shinji to me is a character who genuinely feels like an actual person I'd know in real life, and that's why I think he's complex.
Can you think of any other examples of characters you'd consider to be complex? If so, why?

Interesting topic!

I agree with everything you said except the Shinji part because I haven't watched NGE so I couldn't tell.

In addition to what you said, I think a complex character has to have something relatable, something human, something realistic so we as viewers can connect with them.
- Things like flaws also important.
- Characters that have their own goal, and reasons to reach it.
- Is not revolving in only one character.
- Doesn't feel like a plot device.
- Have reasons to behave the way they do.
- Have struggles with something, just like how we all do irl.
- Have preferences that define them, based on their past experience and things around them.

Will add more later~
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#3
Sep 12, 10:00 AM

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Shicchi said:


In addition to what you said, I think a complex character has to have something relatable, something human, something realistic so we as viewers can connect with them.
- Things like flaws also important.
- Characters that have their own goal, and reasons to reach it.
- Is not revolving in only one character.
- Doesn't feel like a plot device.
- Have reasons to behave the way they do.
- Have struggles with something, just like how we all do irl.
- Have preferences that define them, based on their past experience and things around them.


I overall agree with this. My go-to definition is a character you can see existing as an irl person (personality wise, obviously)
 
#4
Sep 12, 10:23 AM

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In the simplest terms possible, a complex character is a character that defines themselves rather than letting some set of prerequisites define them. They are an authentic and convincing individual, and they experience change as a person; they are fleshed out to such a degree as to appear to be comprised of actual flesh and blood themselves.
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#5
Sep 12, 11:02 AM

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Shicchi said:
HopefulNihilist said:
I think for a character to be complex, they need to have many layers to their personality, as well as, contradictions. The best example I can think of Shinji Ikari: generally, he's a very timid, obedient kid, but then he sometimes displays a more rebellious attitude towards authority. He wants to become close to other people, but is afraid to do so. Shinji to me is a character who genuinely feels like an actual person I'd know in real life, and that's why I think he's complex.
Can you think of any other examples of characters you'd consider to be complex? If so, why?

Interesting topic!

I agree with everything you said except the Shinji part because I haven't watched NGE so I couldn't tell.

In addition to what you said, I think a complex character has to have something relatable, something human, something realistic so we as viewers can connect with them.
- Things like flaws also important.
- Characters that have their own goal, and reasons to reach it.
- Is not revolving in only one character.
- Doesn't feel like a plot device.
- Have reasons to behave the way they do.
- Have struggles with something, just like how we all do irl.
- Have preferences that define them, based on their past experience and things around them.

Will add more later~


I think when it comes to goals, it's more relatable for a character to have a basic goal we have: something like, trying to quit drugs, or become a lawyer. My problem with Shirou Emiya is precisely that: his goal of becoming a, "hero" is not something that anybody in real life would think of. A realistic version of his goal would be something like wanting to be a doctor.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
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#6
Sep 12, 11:43 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
Shicchi said:

Interesting topic!

I agree with everything you said except the Shinji part because I haven't watched NGE so I couldn't tell.

In addition to what you said, I think a complex character has to have something relatable, something human, something realistic so we as viewers can connect with them.
- Things like flaws also important.
- Characters that have their own goal, and reasons to reach it.
- Is not revolving in only one character.
- Doesn't feel like a plot device.
- Have reasons to behave the way they do.
- Have struggles with something, just like how we all do irl.
- Have preferences that define them, based on their past experience and things around them.

Will add more later~


I think when it comes to goals, it's more relatable for a character to have a basic goal we have: something like, trying to quit drugs, or become a lawyer. My problem with Shirou Emiya is precisely that: his goal of becoming a, "hero" is not something that anybody in real life would think of. A realistic version of his goal would be something like wanting to be a doctor.

For me it just have to fit with the settings/world of the story it took place in.
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#7
Sep 12, 12:50 PM

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Seeing all these deep characters from pretty deep shows

The feels when you believe the most complex characters in fiction as a whole are from a harem comedy ecchi manga which no one will ever care about...



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#8
Sep 12, 1:00 PM
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dude that is a nice thinking if someone calls me a hypocrite with too many contradictions then i will just say im a complex character lol

and i can add this guy aside from Shinji https://myanimelist.net/character/149087/Charioce_XVII he got an alter ego (not exactly split personality though) same with Mob from Mob Psycho especially the manga
 
#9
Sep 12, 1:15 PM

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A complex character is defined by their actions, no inner monologue, not too many expressions, just a character that is prepared to act and think for themselves.
To have many complex characters, just make them do different things and say different things.
Complexity can only be experienced indirectly.
 
Sep 12, 3:23 PM

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1. First type
Otosaka Yuu (Charlotte)
Osamu Dazai (Bungou Stray dogs)
2. Second type
Nanachi (Made in Abyss)
Stark x Grimmjow (Bleach)

A character whose personality turns 180 degrees (Ouma Shuu, Train Heartnet) is the 1st complex type.

A character who addapts to his surroundings or to suit the situation he/she finds him/herself in. (Kuroyukihime, Altair) fit in the 2nd type.
 
Sep 13, 12:15 AM

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Someone who acts contrary to typical anime characters. A complex character would also be someone with a sadistic desire to show people the meaninglessness of life through pain and death, and the narcissism to see the world remade in his own image.

It is very rare to see an antagonist in anime so far that is ruthless, lethal, brilliant and unpredictable. Most of the time, they're just plain boring with their ambitions to rule the world.

There are some anti-heroes in anime, but hardly have I seen one with a brutal nature and strong willingness to murder, kidnap, extort, coerce, maim, torture or inflict a variety of pain to his foes.

I guess I can consider Yuji from Blue Gender a complex protagonist since his persona changed like the weather. I didn't expect him to become unwillingly dark or bloodlusted when he massacred some giant mutant bugs.
 
Sep 13, 12:20 AM
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A complex character is usually one that constantly makes you question what the character is without seeming inconsistent
Examples: lelouch, dazai, ciel, okabe, askeladd
 
Sep 13, 12:21 AM
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zieek said:
1. First type
Otosaka Yuu (Charlotte)
Osamu Dazai (Bungou Stray dogs)
2. Second type
Nanachi (Made in Abyss)
Stark x Grimmjow (Bleach)

A character whose personality turns 180 degrees (Ouma Shuu, Train Heartnet) is the 1st complex type.

A character who addapts to his surroundings or to suit the situation he/she finds him/herself in. (Kuroyukihime, Altair) fit in the 2nd type.

I see dazai i apreciate the post
People rarely talk about bubgou stray dogs which is a shame cause i think it's a very good anime
 
Sep 13, 2:10 AM
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Yeah the whole Layers thing definitely makes sense.Contradictions does not seem like a necessary characteristic, feels more like a optional feature or a by-product of being complex.

Your question need not be restricted only to anime, I've asked this question as to 'How is one person(in real life)more complex than another with respect to their behavior and personalities" to myself?

Well I have my own pet theory for this.


Firstly, we consider all kinds of simple people.Who are 'simple' people? These are people whose behavior and personality is highly predictable.For example most children exhibit simplistic behavior.You can always tell how their thought process is functioning and how they feel and react.And there are different 'simplistic' personalities like The simple lover,The simple farmer(workers),The simple politician and so on.

'Complex' people are ones who start out as 'simple' but manifest other 'simplistic' behavuorial tendencies and personalities and integrate them into their current existence due to interactions with the external environment.For example making jokes or fun at another(friends or close people) may seem like insulting at first to the mindset of the simple person but he/she soon learns to develop this contradictory yet supremely effective way of expressing comradeship.

Now let's assume that any(or rather every) person(or fictional character) exhibits all the infinitely many 'simplistic' tendencies but in varying proportions.So naturally a 'simple' person is one whose proprotions of most of these characteristics goes close to 0.While a 'complex' person will have many characteristics of sizable proportions.

To make it easier to follow,just consider the analogy of a cocktail.They all start out as simple liquids before getting mixed together.And it can be very hard to predict what went in and how much of it.That is why contradictions is not a necessity.Bitter-Sweet cocktails are all complex but not all complex cocktails need to contain substances which elicit polar response.I could be clearer but hope you are getting my point.

Coming back to fictional characters,I consider those characters whom I think I got some read on but am unable to predict what they will do or how they will react as one measure of complexity.Of course they have to be well written too and not some random mish-mash of 'not so well thought out' writing is trying to sell.

There are few examples from anime but I can't think of them right now.I know you haven't watched Breaking Bad yet @AbsurdistOtaku but that show has a character that always comes to my mind when I think of 'complex' personality.
 
Sep 13, 2:46 AM

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hmmm.. idk.
Anime doesn't usually imitate real life, but normally when I think about what makes a "complex character", it means I can imagine this character existing in real life.

It's not necessary for them to have a huge range of personality traits, or a million layers of emotions referencing to their backstories.

If they are overly complex it can make the characters completely unrelatable and unbelievable.

Also, I can imagine characters existing in real life even if it has a fantasy setting.

They are still human right.

Characters are not complex if they don't make sense in real life.

Having layers to their personality and a full range of emotions just means they aren't one-dimensional.
IMHO that doesn't mean they are believable human beings that could exist in real life.

There definitely are complex anime characters, but most are not, and that's completely fine. I'm not watching anime because the characters are believable.
 
Sep 13, 2:49 AM

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It is necessarily to decide whether characters meet some arbitrary standard of 'complexity' or not?
 
Sep 13, 2:54 AM
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not really a reply but Diavolo is a complex character
 
Sep 13, 3:00 AM

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To Define a Complex Character.. She Have a Body Figure.. A Galaxy Eyes..
A Short Haired.. With Glasses. Have a Medium Oppai And The Most of All She is A Loli xD
 
Sep 13, 3:26 AM

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All those traits that the OP is talking about - yes, those are some signs for complexity...but also their execution is really important.

Lets take your typical live action detective show protagonist: 40+, divorced, middle life crisis, burned out, drinking problems...
The guy has layers, contradictions, realistic behaviour...is this automatically makes him complex?
Naaah.
He is stock footage, trope, a cliche even. This archetype is overdone, thus we need more deepness to him.


The easiest method to detect complex characters is to compare them to other characters.
Like "Is X more complex than Y or not? Is those differences meaningful for the story?".
Modified by alshu, Sep 14, 4:02 AM
 
Sep 13, 6:25 AM
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I would consider a character to be complex when there's more to them than what we usually see. You know, they're fleshed out. They can't easily be called something like "a boring tsundere girl" or "a typical stoic guy". There's something that makes them interesting.

I guess an example of a complex character is Ryouko Tamiya from Parasyte. Even though she seems cold and manipulative, there's a part of her interested in human life. She even changes to the point where she seems more human than Shinichi (depending on what scenes you compare). Even Migi, a parasite just like Ryouko, didn't understand her actions at one point. Parasites are a species that rely on thoughts and don't really have emotions. This is why you would see them doing something based on logic and not emotions. Despite this, Ryouko acted based on her feelings even though she normally wouldn't.




Modified by Sakurai_Aoi, Sep 13, 6:29 AM
 
Sep 13, 6:39 AM

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zieek said:
1. First type
Otosaka Yuu (Charlotte)
Osamu Dazai (Bungou Stray dogs)
2. Second type
Nanachi (Made in Abyss)
Stark x Grimmjow (Bleach)

A character whose personality turns 180 degrees (Ouma Shuu, Train Heartnet) is the 1st complex type.

A character who addapts to his surroundings or to suit the situation he/she finds him/herself in. (Kuroyukihime, Altair) fit in the 2nd type.


What does, "personality turns 180 degrees" mean?
The 2nd type is something that always exists in real life in all of us, but rarely in anime. For example, in highschool, I had a friend on the bus who was very quiet, calm, kept to himself. But in lunch, when he was with his other friends, he turned into an animal; they'd start screaming and banging on the table; we act differently around certain people.

NozzaVevo said:
not really a reply but Diavolo is a complex character


Diavolo from Jojo part 5? Interesting. Why do you think so?
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
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Sep 13, 10:25 AM

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AbsurdistOtaku said:
What does, "personality turns 180 degrees" mean?
The 2nd type is something that always exists in real life in all of us, but rarely in anime. For example, in highschool, I had a friend on the bus who was very quiet, calm, kept to himself. But in lunch, when he was with his other friends, he turned into an animal; they'd start screaming and banging on the table; we act differently around certain people.


It means something extreme happened to the mc:
A dear/best friend, lover or family member died, was maimed or crippled, example (Ouma Shuu). He was overcome with grief and became oppressive and cold.

Second type refers to a character that only reveals his true self in particular situations, example is Roberta from "Black Lagoon". She was a clumsy and inept maid, that at times makes elementary mistakes and errors. However when she sensed danger or hostility she reverts back to a soldier (with all that encompasses).
 
Sep 13, 2:22 PM

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Koko (Jormungand) is a complex character born as the daughter of an arms dealer and along with her older brother carries out the family business of selling weapons. She is bright and cheerful even in the midst of battle, cares about her crew a lot, sleepwalks, and can't hold her liquor.
"I am Holo the wisewolf, I know that there are things in this world that I do not know, that is what makes me wise."
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Sep 13, 2:58 PM

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You defined it quite well as a layered character(I wouldn't say contradictions though). I'll use the word complex the same way I would any other adjective to describe a character. Just look at what the word means by itself and apply it to the character. In this case, the definition would be:
"consisting of many different and connected parts."
So the parts, in this case, would be many different traits that are connected to one character as their personality. The main question now remains, how many traits? For my purpose, I'm going to define it as 9 traits since that seems like a lot to me.

 
Sep 13, 3:28 PM

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Peaceful_Critic said:
You defined it quite well as a layered character(I wouldn't say contradictions though). I'll use the word complex the same way I would any other adjective to describe a character. Just look at what the word means by itself and apply it to the character. In this case, the definition would be:
"consisting of many different and connected parts."
So the parts, in this case, would be many different traits that are connected to one character as their personality. The main question now remains, how many traits? For my purpose, I'm going to define it as 9 traits since that seems like a lot to me.


I think for a character to be 100% complex, to me anyways, their personality needs to resemble an actual human's. So I think that the number of traits a character has should be the same number the average human has.
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Sep 13, 4:19 PM
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I don't think a complex character NEEDS to seem like a real life human being. They can have some personality traits and other stuff characteristic to them and them only that you are probably not going to find irl.

Somebody mentioned up in this thread that Shirou Emiya from Fate/Stay Night is not a complex character because he has an unrealistic goal (to become a hero of justice and save everyone). I think this is utterly false. I'm pretty sure many of us wanted to be a hero when we were small kids. It's just that we grew up and, just like Archer, realized that there is apsolutely no way to save everyone and that saving one person means leaving another to perish. But Shirou was (and throughout the story still is) a fundamentally broken character. He has survivors guilt and a hero complex and he only finds happiness through other people - that is, through saving them. He admires that wish of Kiritsugu's, which is now his own, because, as he himself says and I really gotta agree, it's beautiful. And as there are 3 routes to the original VN, there are 3 ways of exploring this character and "unlocking" his true potential and complexity (not even mentioning the "non true endings", which also show a different side to him).

Somebody above also mentioned how there aren't many ruthless and terribly brutal villains that have a goal that differs from the ever so common "I shall rule the world". And since I mentioned Shirou, how can I possibly not mention Kotomine Kirei? The man, the myth, the legend. A truly great villain that feels the most human out of every character of Fate/Stay Night's rather large cast (well, in my opinion at least). He is a man that, upon discovering the sickening nature of his desires, tries everything in his might to somehow surpress them. He knows that what he desires is wrong and is a true to heart sadist, a man that's born evil, yet tries desperately and effortlessly to be good. And when he finally embraces his true self, he just becomes all the more enjoyable to observe. He is like the other side of a coin to Shirou Emiya, because, just like Shirou he also finds happiness exclusively in other people, although, not through their salvation but through their suffering, pain and demise.

So yeah, a big rant here and more of a character analysis then a point about complex character but as a Fate fag I can't help it.

I think a complex character is like an onion, he/she has layers.
Those layers of traits and quirks that make them who they are don't need to resemble those of real humans, but feel closer to us and our understandings if they do. I think Lelouch VI Britannia is a complex character and I also don't really consider him "realistic".
So basically, the more layers, traits and personality a character has the more complex they are.
Modified by MelissaRedburm, Sep 13, 4:31 PM
 
Sep 13, 6:14 PM

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TL;DR: I agree that complex character to me is one with a lot of different traits that are all required to make up a character. However, I disagree that a character needs to be realistic or contradictory to be complex.

I think a complex character is similar to cooking. Cooking becomes more difficult when more ingredients are added to the recipe, and you have to make sure each is prepared properly in order for the dish to come together as a cohesive unit.

A character can be realistic but, in my opinion, not complex. The main characters from "I Want to eat your pancreas" are realistic, but, to me, only one step above a 1-D character. That's like eggs on toast; it's tasty, but still nothing more than an egg and a piece of bread.

A character can be contradictory to their personality but, in my opinion, not be complex. Kagura Souma (Fruits Basket), for example, does things that are contradictory but, in the end, she's nothing more than a bodere. That's like chocolate; you may find a special filling inside, but it's still just a piece of chocolate with paste squirted in.

Nagito Komaeda from Danganronpa, in my opinion, is one of the most complex characters I've seen. However,you will never meet someone like him on the street, and his motives were said early on and maintained. But, he's still complex because there are a lot of various ingredients in his recipe, and a lot of work needs to be put in to it to make him tasty. He's the Baked Alaska of characters. To make by scratch you need the ingredients for the cake, the ice cream, AND the meringue. And then after a bunch of mixing, baking, assembling, freezing, and re-assembling, you have to put a flame on it. A lot of work, effort, and detail for an ice cream cake.

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Sep 13, 6:22 PM

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As a hollow "light novel protagonist" wherein I can insert myself and vicariously experience the joy of having a large harem that sexually harasses me to compensate for the extremely small size of my real life penis.

Since I am layers, and layers of complexity this automatically makes this character super complicated in my eyes.


It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

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Sep 14, 3:35 AM

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alshu said:

The easiest method to detect complex characters is to compare them to other characters.
Like "Is X more complex than Y or not? Is those differences meaningful for the story?".


This is a great example of how complexity is experienced indirectly.

@Peaceful_Critic
@MelissaRedburm
@CHLO_JO007

This idea of complexity as pure quantity of traits/layers misses the point that characters are not isolated personalities, personality is their very inclusion in a social community and context.
So a character can have one trait and still be complex because their social inscription is complex.

@Sakurai_Aoi

The argument above is also my argument for why simple archetypes can still be complex.
 
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@Safeanew
Social inscription? What do you mean by that? I'm not sure what you are getting at here.


 
Sep 14, 5:15 AM

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@Peaceful_Critic
I mean a character cannot be isolated from their story without losing their complexity.
 
Sep 14, 5:24 AM

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Safeanew said:
@Peaceful_Critic
I mean a character cannot be isolated from their story without losing their complexity.
Ah, I see. Well, characters often change to different stories and context in episodic shows, so do you think it's possible that characters can still be complex then?

 
Sep 14, 5:27 AM

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Peaceful_Critic said:
Safeanew said:
@Peaceful_Critic
I mean a character cannot be isolated from their story without losing their complexity.
Ah, I see. Well, characters often change to different stories and context in episodic shows, so do you think it's possible that characters can still be complex then?

Yeah, my point is more that there is no formula to write a complex character seperate from writing a complex story.
 
Sep 14, 5:41 AM
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Safeanew said:
alshu said:

The easiest method to detect complex characters is to compare them to other characters.
Like "Is X more complex than Y or not? Is those differences meaningful for the story?".


This is a great example of how complexity is experienced indirectly.

@Peaceful_Critic
@MelissaRedburm
@CHLO_JO007

This idea of complexity as pure quantity of traits/layers misses the point that characters are not isolated personalities, personality is their very inclusion in a social community and context.
So a character can have one trait and still be complex because their social inscription is complex.

@Sakurai_Aoi

The argument above is also my argument for why simple archetypes can still be complex.


I never said that they couldn't be complex. A character can fit into a certain archetype and still be interesting and complex. It's just that there are some characters that have little to no depth other than them belonging to a certain archetype.
 
Sep 14, 5:51 AM

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Safeanew said:
Peaceful_Critic said:
Ah, I see. Well, characters often change to different stories and context in episodic shows, so do you think it's possible that characters can still be complex then?

Yeah, my point is more that there is no formula to write a complex character seperate from writing a complex story.
Oh, interestingly enough my English teacher described the story as characters interacting with the setting.

 
Sep 14, 5:56 AM

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I think it's hard to define, and yet quite easy to determine on a case by case analysis. It's not JUST personality, like some people seem to be thinking. It's how that personality interacts with the world around them, and in turn, how those elements affect their personality.
 
Sep 14, 5:57 AM

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@Sakurai_Aoi
Yeah I missread that.
This about lacking depth, I wonder if you agree that this can be seen by comparing how characters speak.
Some shows I claim that every character speaks the same way, for example the first episodes of Kenja no Mago the characters speak exactly the same way even when they are quite different types of people.
 
Sep 14, 6:02 AM

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Simply if the character have 2 or more personalities, backgrounds can help too.
 
Sep 14, 6:14 AM
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Safeanew said:
@Sakurai_Aoi
Yeah I missread that.
This about lacking depth, I wonder if you agree that this can be seen by comparing how characters speak.
Some shows I claim that every character speaks the same way, for example the first episodes of Kenja no Mago the characters speak exactly the same way even when they are quite different types of people.


It's ok. Also, yeah, a lack of depth can be seen by how they speak. The fact that they talk exactly the same shows that they don't have their own character voice. It's like they all just share one. When writing, authors are supposed to give each character their own unique voice. Not only does this help their character, it also helps the author because they don't have to constantly use dialogue tags to let readers know who's speaking. The reader would know who's speaking based on the character voice alone. Since this is anime, you can actually see the characters talking but it definitely shows a lack of depth.
 
Sep 14, 6:35 AM

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If i like them then they're Complex, and if i don't like them then they're One-dimensional, duh. obvious question op.

Okay, on a more serious note now. I think character are complex when we actually see their "moral code" and how his circumstance in the story troubles him because of it. For example: (Slight durarara spoiler about shizuo)



It's a simple character built on one quirky habit. The result is a very entertaining character with many room for the story to develops.
"This is boring...I'm bored..."
 
Sep 14, 6:47 AM

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Much as I admire Tolkien, and I do admire Tolkien — he’s been a huge influence on me, and his Lord of the Rings is the mountain that leans over every other fantasy written since and shaped all of modern fantasy — there are things about it, the whole concept of the Dark Lord, and good guys battling bad guys, Good versus Evil, while brilliantly handled in Tolkien, in the hands of many Tolkien successors, it has become kind of a cartoon. We don’t need any more Dark Lords, we don’t need any more, ‘Here are the good guys, they’re in white, there are the bad guys, they’re in black. And also, they’re really ugly, the bad guys.

It is certainly a genuine, legitimate topic as the core of fantasy, but I think the battle between Good and Evil is waged within the individual human hearts. We all have good in us and we all have evil in us, and we may do a wonderful good act on Tuesday and a horrible, selfish, bad act on Wednesday, and to me, that’s the great human drama of fiction. I believe in gray characters, as I’ve said before. We all have good and evil in us and there are very few pure paragons and there are very few orcs. A villain is a hero of the other side, as someone said once, and I think there’s a great deal of truth to that, and that’s the interesting thing. In the case of war, that kind of situation, so I think some of that is definitely what I’m aiming at. (GRR Martin)


That's basically it: a character with a credible individual motivation and in conflict with him/herself over a dilemma.

 
Sep 14, 6:55 AM

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Usually, anime characters are not complex at all.

It's quite easy to pinpoint the complex ones, usually associated with complex shows.
 
Sep 14, 6:55 AM

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Enigmas. 100%. And the way the characters react and interact with others.

They definitely shouldn't be read like an open book, nor should "secrets" be told through general backstories and flashbacks. That's a cheap way out. Enigmas stay enigmas, or there's a whole lot to describe behind them.

And no... people who have twisted or multiple personalities are not complex, many are irrational and edgy and it's a way to make an excuse for not having a proper character with a proper personality without it randomly changing. That is bad writing.
 
Sep 14, 11:47 AM

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Being realistic is being complex imo, characters that love, hate, acting or not acting based on feelling, being happy or sad, some kind of goal (ot lack of it), hipocrisy, having doubs, being overcome by some situation, being unpredictable, etc etc. Alll the things that makes us human is what makes a character complex.

Kruszer said:
Koko (Jormungand) is a complex character born as the daughter of an arms dealer and along with her older brother carries out the family business of selling weapons. She is bright and cheerful even in the midst of battle, cares about her crew a lot, sleepwalks, and can't hold her liquor.

Aka, an edgy character with a bright personality and a darky past... sorry, but I have no idea how you think that she is complex, especially considering how the character was developed during the show.
 
Sep 14, 12:27 PM

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DaCraziGuy said:
Being realistic is being complex imo, characters that love, hate, acting or not acting based on feelling, being happy or sad, some kind of goal (ot lack of it), hipocrisy, having doubs, being overcome by some situation, being unpredictable, etc etc. Alll the things that makes us human is what makes a character complex.

Kruszer said:
Koko (Jormungand) is a complex character born as the daughter of an arms dealer and along with her older brother carries out the family business of selling weapons. She is bright and cheerful even in the midst of battle, cares about her crew a lot, sleepwalks, and can't hold her liquor.

Aka, an edgy character with a bright personality and a darky past... sorry, but I have no idea how you think that she is complex, especially considering how the character was developed during the show.


Op wanted layers and contradictions and I just finished a rewatch of that. Speaking of I don't want to hear anti-edgy comments from someone called DaCraziGuy. LOL
"I am Holo the wisewolf, I know that there are things in this world that I do not know, that is what makes me wise."
-Holo (Spice & Wolf)
 
Sep 14, 2:14 PM

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Kruszer said:
DaCraziGuy said:
Being realistic is being complex imo, characters that love, hate, acting or not acting based on feelling, being happy or sad, some kind of goal (ot lack of it), hipocrisy, having doubs, being overcome by some situation, being unpredictable, etc etc. Alll the things that makes us human is what makes a character complex.


Aka, an edgy character with a bright personality and a darky past... sorry, but I have no idea how you think that she is complex, especially considering how the character was developed during the show.


Op wanted layers and contradictions and I just finished a rewatch of that. Speaking of I don't want to hear anti-edgy comments from someone called DaCraziGuy. LOL
I like edgy stuff, I don't like lazy edgy stuff. Using backstory for building up a dark atmosphere when there is no dark development is lazy and poor writting, that was my point.

Also, I don't see any layers nor contractions, Koko always had the same actitude since the beginning and the relationships among the characters were pretty static. But OK, I guess that having a funny nickname (at least for me) means that my opinion is worthless.
 
Sep 14, 2:22 PM
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For me a complex character is any character who over the course of the story evolves through his/her experiences. I think the whole idea of character being more human or relatable is entity subjective. I for one can definitely relate to Shinji Ikari but then are also many people who can't and just as likely these people will also have character they think are human and relatable but I won't.
 
Sep 14, 2:34 PM

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DaCraziGuy said:
I like edgy stuff, I don't like lazy edgy stuff. Using backstory for building up a dark atmosphere when there is no dark development is lazy and poor writting, that was my point.


If you say so, I don't differentiate between the two when the result is the same.
"I am Holo the wisewolf, I know that there are things in this world that I do not know, that is what makes me wise."
-Holo (Spice & Wolf)
 
Sep 14, 7:48 PM

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Complexity is a continuum.

It's basically a measure of how many details there are about a character. Basically, how many sorts of thoughts that can go through their head that we know about, or how much we understand of who they are.

One can compare it to getting to know a person. Complexity of a character is like how deeply you "know" the character.

It doesn't necessarily have to include any particular sort of thing -- for example, it doesn't have to include a character flaw, though it often does.

A character who feels like a plot device isn't very complex, the same way you don't really know a store cashier with whom you never have a conversation. (On the other hand, if you get to know them, and find out that they like baseball, are very fond of the home team in the town they lived in as a child, you've added depth to your familiarity -- or complexity to the character. We can go further -- maybe the person/character has never really been able to find stable employment, and does this cashier job part-time to make ends meet, while also trying to find love. And there's probably little things in that give them joy in their life, even though things seem to be looking down. and so on.)
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Sep 14, 7:52 PM
 
Sep 15, 8:21 AM

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Kruszer said:
DaCraziGuy said:
I like edgy stuff, I don't like lazy edgy stuff. Using backstory for building up a dark atmosphere when there is no dark development is lazy and poor writting, that was my point.


If you say so, I don't differentiate between the two when the result is the same.
I don't get how you can get the same result with something like Berserk compared to something like something as your average shounen MC with a dark past and a bright story. But ok.
 
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