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[4K Anime] New Netflix x Production IG Hand-drawn 4K HDR anime project called Sol Levante faces criticisms from animators for possible insane workload on 720P quality budget

#1
Sep 10, 12:57 PM
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im surprise no one posted this here yet so here
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/d21rm4/new_netflix_x_production_ig_handdrawn_4k_hdr/

Some comments from various veteran animators

Noriyuki Fukuda: "This is insane. One can get to 4K resolution with computer graphics and proper digital techniques, but to hand draw it? Even when one uses CG et al. for assistance, the workload and unique characteristics would mean that those animators and staff that work on this have to be paid more. I cannot approve of such a project without any clear promise of a systematic better treatment for animators and related staff."

Shigeru Yamazaki: "If you are going to do that in 4K, people should have been paid 4 times what that get right now. Even if the company wishes to do so, is the budget there?"

i lol they should just have vectorize it like in Inkscape of Adobe Illustrator then so leave it to the digital department instead of this insane workload be done by the animators
 
#2
Sep 10, 1:01 PM

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There's literally no gain from going to producing animation in 4K, when casuals can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080p and people still choose to watch in 480p on Youtube.
 
#3
Sep 10, 1:10 PM

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Milennin said:
There's literally no gain from going to producing animation in 4K, when casuals can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080p and people still choose to watch in 480p on Youtube.

The only people who do that are people who don't have 1080p to 4K displays. Cause it literally doesn't matter unless you have a TV / monitor that can support those resolutions.
 
#4
Sep 10, 1:42 PM

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PsychoticDave said:
Milennin said:
There's literally no gain from going to producing animation in 4K, when casuals can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080p and people still choose to watch in 480p on Youtube.

The only people who do that are people who don't have 1080p to 4K displays. Cause it literally doesn't matter unless you have a TV / monitor that can support those resolutions.

Yeah, and only a tiny percentage of people have displays that support 4K. The only reason you could possibly have to want to animate in 4K is if you have some sort of obsession with future-proofing your work, and even then, remasters do a pretty good job of upscaling lower resolation animation to make it look nicer on new tech.
 
#5
Sep 10, 1:46 PM

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Milennin said:
PsychoticDave said:

The only people who do that are people who don't have 1080p to 4K displays. Cause it literally doesn't matter unless you have a TV / monitor that can support those resolutions.

Yeah, and only a tiny percentage of people have displays that support 4K. The only reason you could possibly have to want to animate in 4K is if you have some sort of obsession with future-proofing your work, and even then, remasters do a pretty good job of upscaling lower resolation animation to make it look nicer on new tech.

Entirely true. In all honesty, 480p old anime look great on my TV. The upscaling on the TVs themselves are nearly enough.
 
#6
Sep 10, 1:47 PM
I love stuff...

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I would lie if I said 4K doesn't look nice, but except for maybe PC Master Race guys, it is, IMO, still way too early for anything else.
 
#7
Sep 10, 1:48 PM
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Yeah right, too bad i don't have netflix
 
#8
Sep 10, 1:49 PM

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So they draw on them bigass sheets o paper? And on the same pay as a regular anime? Genius. Upscalin is pretty good, this is some megalomaniac job to do.
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think
it's necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro
 
#9
Sep 10, 2:17 PM

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People are talking about 4k anime and I'm still watching on my old ass 1600x900 VGA monitor. These threads make me feel poor.
Ok I'm dumb I haven't done this since playfire was a thing so I do not know what to write in here.
 
Sep 10, 3:03 PM

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From the link, there doesn't seem to be any hard data on what the budget/schedule is for this project. Kind of hard to do anything besides speculating or just ask for the studio/Netflix to release that information (if contractually permissible).
 
Sep 10, 3:05 PM
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Graumann said:
From the link, there doesn't seem to be any hard data on what the budget/schedule is for this project. Kind of hard to do anything besides speculating or just ask for the studio/Netflix to release that information (if contractually permissible).


hard data like salaries of animators are secret in the anime industry anyway

but this comment criticism of hand drawn 4K anime came from animators in the anime industry themselves though so thats telling something since they have connections to Production IG for example
 
Sep 11, 3:15 AM
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I don't even have the TV or computer in such high resolution. Why even do such a crazy nonsensical thing?
 
Sep 11, 5:00 AM
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I do think it's unnecessary, but I also remember in the past a lot of people in this community were asking about it or hoping for it. If Netflix wasn't involved, I don't think the reactions would be this entirely negative tbh.

But well, I don't need this but if it happens I'm probably gonna enjoy it.

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
Sep 11, 6:40 AM
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Pullman said:
I do think it's unnecessary, but I also remember in the past a lot of people in this community were asking about it or hoping for it. If Netflix wasn't involved, I don't think the reactions would be this entirely negative tbh.

But well, I don't need this but if it happens I'm probably gonna enjoy it.
It's about animators that will they be able to make it because it looks harsh to them.
 
Sep 11, 6:57 AM

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Shigeru Yamazaki: "If you are going to do that in 4K, people should have been paid 4 times what that get right now. Even if the company wishes to do so, is the budget there?"


Basically what the man said. if you're gonna slave away your animator even harder than before, it should only be done by giving them more time AND the right compensation.
"This is boring...I'm bored..."
 
Sep 11, 7:42 AM
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Peeti said:
Pullman said:
I do think it's unnecessary, but I also remember in the past a lot of people in this community were asking about it or hoping for it. If Netflix wasn't involved, I don't think the reactions would be this entirely negative tbh.

But well, I don't need this but if it happens I'm probably gonna enjoy it.
It's about animators that will they be able to make it because it looks harsh to them.


Thanks for reiterating what I already know, I guess.

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
Sep 11, 7:49 AM
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Pullman said:
Peeti said:
It's about animators that will they be able to make it because it looks harsh to them.


Thanks for reiterating what I already know, I guess.
you were talking about Netflix not the animators which was like it's not about animators that it's getting negative comments.
 
Sep 11, 8:44 AM

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What rich bastard with a stellar internet connection has the ability to stream anime in 4K, that lucky dog


18071906
WHY WHY WOULD I WASTE MY TIME?
perdiste mi atención
.

 
Sep 11, 10:20 AM

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It's unfortunate if true, but to me the post sounds like bunch of assumptions. We don't know neither budget nor length of it (if it's a movie, short or a full blown series).

Generally I don't think it's unnecessary even though not many people own 4K displays. I am all for trying new things and advancement. But yeah, you should think of your workers first.

Catalano said:
So they draw on them bigass sheets o paper? And on the same pay as a regular anime? Genius. Upscalin is pretty good, this is some megalomaniac job to do.


From what I could see in "Making of" video, animation is done digitally on tablets.

Edit: Here is the video with people working on the project if anyone's interested.

Modified by Tsarko, Sep 11, 10:24 AM
 
Sep 11, 10:53 AM

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I want higher quality anime with awesome production design but once again in order for us to have a sustainable and healthy industry there needs to be serious change from within. The anime industry grows and gains more profits every year but in attempt to capitalize on that they are running their talent into the ground.

Asia in general isn't the best when it comes to work life balance but the anime industry is on another level. I may not like the practices but yeah that art does look pretty and for those with 4k it probably will look stunning so I will check it out. Just got to hope for animators to force internal change maybe IDK through walkouts or more studios adopting better practices like how Kyo Ani was run. The amount of impact the international audience has is pretty limited.
 
Sep 11, 11:12 AM

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But wait, I thought Netflix getting into anime was supposed to save the industry by giving studios a bigger budget to work with?

I hope the poor animators working on High Guardian Spice won't have to work like this!
 
Sep 13, 3:42 PM
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Catalano said:
So they draw on them bigass sheets o paper? And on the same pay as a regular anime? Genius. Upscalin is pretty good, this is some megalomaniac job to do.

i don't know where the idea that higher resolution = larger area for hand animation, they literally only have to draw at the same scale as any other animation project just scan it in at a higher resolution, the only extra work is maybe adding a few extra details and taking more care when sketching the lines etc. if they draw on tablets as most do, sure they increase the size (resolution) of the virtual paper but they just draw at the same scale again but it records more information due to the larger pixel count. they really don't have to do much extra work for 4k than 1080p, they only things that would potentially require extra work is animating more unique frames and the amount of additional details they can optionally add.
Modified by jtdlobb, Sep 13, 3:48 PM
 
Sep 13, 4:02 PM

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I don't see any problem with it if they understand how long it may take to do something like this..

But I'm not sure how they get paid.. like, I'm pretty sure animators don't get paid hourly do they? They have a time restraint, and get paid what they were told they were gonna get paid when they follow through.

But say if it was done a little differently keeping in mind how much time and effort it would take to come out with something like this..

Like.. say a regular anime would take anywhere from a month to half a year to complete.. And they get paid the amount they'd need for the month to half a year of effort they put in..

But if you want a quality piece of animation that would take that much more time and effort.. it'd be obvious they'd need more pay.

Of course they'd need to be paid more if more time and effort is required to come out with something of that quality.

I mean, Redline took 7 years to make and it shows.

They want to make something of that quality, they need to be prepared to pay their animators for 7 years of effort.
 
Sep 13, 8:57 PM

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jtdlobb said:
Catalano said:
So they draw on them bigass sheets o paper? And on the same pay as a regular anime? Genius. Upscalin is pretty good, this is some megalomaniac job to do.

i don't know where the idea that higher resolution = larger area for hand animation, they literally only have to draw at the same scale as any other animation project just scan it in at a higher resolution, the only extra work is maybe adding a few extra details and taking more care when sketching the lines etc. if they draw on tablets as most do, sure they increase the size (resolution) of the virtual paper but they just draw at the same scale again but it records more information due to the larger pixel count. they really don't have to do much extra work for 4k than 1080p, they only things that would potentially require extra work is animating more unique frames and the amount of additional details they can optionally add.

ok, that sounds better, still they need to be payed correctly for them extra details which some guy from the staff was complaining.
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think
it's necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro
 
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