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Poll: Kanata no Astra Episode 10 Discussion


Sep 4, 12:23 PM

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When Kanata told Zack and Charce that he thought Ulgar was the traitor, I was almost facepalming at the fact that Ulgar was conveniently standing right outside in their line of sight at that specific moment. Thankfully that was just a trap to fool Charce. Even though this show has had its ups and downs, I really do like mysteries so I'm looking forward to the next episode.
Modified by thebrentinator24, Sep 4, 12:31 PM
I'm no special story or anything. I'm just a manga that wants to be read, like you could find anywhere. But, if, for argument's sake, you were to adapt me into an anime series, it would certainly be....a tragedy.

-The Tokyo Ghoul/Tokyo Ghoul:re manga, if they could talk
 
Sep 4, 12:35 PM

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TheDeedsOfMen said:
Unfortunately, there is an asteroid-sized plothole here.

They have a civilization with FTL capability and even wormhole technology, yet they apparently cannot divert a single asteroid. That seems implausible. Even if there are reasons why it can't be done, they never even touch the subject or explain why not.

If they have wormhole technology, the ability to produce a large number of wormholes in operation and FTL on top of it, I see no reason why they couldn't be used to change the asteroid's trajectory. Even if the asteroid is 300 kilometers across, all it needs is a relatively gentle push over the years to avoid Earth. The planet is actually a pretty small target in space and in constant movement relative to other bodies, so the trajectory of the asteroid would barely have to change. Far more realistic than moving much of the world's resources to another planet.

Suck up some of the asteroid's mass, ram it with large objects (at FTL speed?), or drop stockpiles of nukes and other explosives if you really can't do anything else. Might as well chip off rocks with wormholes and launch them right back at the asteroid itself from a suitable angle. They don't need to destroy the whole thing; it is enough to push it enough to divert its trajectory. Even if there are some technical reasons why wormholes and FTL can't trivially solve this, they make travel to the asteroid so much faster and more efficient that they can keep pushing or nuking the rock as soon as it's discovered and keep at it every day with huge resources. After all, they must have gigantic resources available if they were able to migrate to another planet.

Also, if an asteroid is 300 kilometers across, it is one of the largest asteroids in the entire solar system. There are only about ten of them. If one of them was headed for Earth, people would know about it much sooner because they are such obvious targets for tracking. Eight years is an outrageously low timespan. I'd be more worried about the 10,000 asteroids with a diameter of about 10 km. How has an FTL civilization not properly tracked the largest asteroids that are well-known even today?

(By the way, I knew about this beforehand because I have read the manga. That's why I thought this through.)


It feels really jarring. An FTL civilization cornered by a single asteroid? Really?


That and the
thing are insanely massive plotholes and utterly implausible, and even though i know the outcome of that resolution, i didn't realize until this episode how utterly implausible both the asteroid and that are in general, not to mention that if a asteroid that size was going to hit, we'd probably setup bases on other parts of the solar system far before thinking about interplanetary travel.
Not gonna lie, my opinion of the show in general dropped due to this episode.
Modified by Tatsuya, Sep 4, 12:44 PM
 
Sep 4, 12:43 PM
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Its a clonetastrophe Now the King himself is their enemy They can't just go back and escape
 
Sep 4, 12:51 PM

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Why is this anime so wholesome... I am deeply touched
 
Sep 4, 1:02 PM

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Ah, man, that episode made me cry. The reveal that Charce is the traitor broke my heart but to be honest it would have been heartbreaking no matter who it was because i've grown to love all the characters.

I hope there's a really legit reason for him doing this so that hopefully they can move on from it and put it behind them, but the problem now is that a King is in on the cloning crime so they can't just go back and tell everyone what happened because no one will believe it
 
Sep 4, 1:26 PM

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I was spoilered about Charce early on but even if I wasn't I would have suspected him like crazy lol. But the plot stuff with Polina is more interesting right now anyway.
 
Sep 4, 1:54 PM

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When Kanata explained the plan to Charce, it already felt like he was the actual target, not Ulgar. Does being a clone of a king change anything? They probably will explain this in next episode but I wonder what kind of reason does Charce have to throw away his own life?

Gotta wait.
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Sep 4, 3:47 PM

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Wow, what an episode. Ever since Polina arrived this seems like totally different show... a better one.

The part when they explained alternative histories that weren't alternative at all was very good. Although we still miss the part about why there is that mentioned year incosistency of just six years (should be 2050 or so years since their arrival instead to resettle the planet). Or do they all have implanted false memories too in addition? (seems unlikely)

Well, Charce backstory incoming the next time. And we also miss Aries story too. Two more episodes left!
 
Sep 4, 3:54 PM

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Lelouch0202 said:
Good episode with a lot of info.

+1 to @TheDeedsOfMen response about how an advanced civilizations with FTL and wormhole technology ended up worried about a single asteroid. Doesn't make sense, I suppose the only way to look over it is that it's just for the sake of the plot.

Something doesn't add up to me about the whole exodus, it's like Zack mentioned, it's only been 6 years since the supposed Exodus. These kids are supposed to be what? 14? 15? There's no way they wouldn't remember going through a wormhole or at least something about the Exodus or even Earth and it's history. If the Exodus had happened like a hundred years before then perhaps it's possible that the true history was hidden from them, in fact Astra's history is awfully elaborate with the whole WWIII. 6 years is too little time for this to be fabricated so well and to have Astra colonized immensely. Only explanations I can think of is that either Astra wasn't the planet that humanity immigrated too, somehow the entirely of humanity was brainwashed or there is a discrepancy in the time quoted by the characters. i.e. the years that Paulina and Zack quote are actually not part of the same calendar.

Interesting that Charce turned out to be the perpetrator and yeah awfully bold of Kanata to suspect him just from that single detail when they were first captured. Looking forward to hearing his story.


I'm thinking this gap has to do with a faulty timeline, their ideas of time being different or memory replacement. Maybe due to the nuclear war the old world saw, they wanted to ensure the new generation wouldn't repeat the same mistakes. They would achieve this by allowing the next generation to essentially have a clean slate and not remember the horror of war, which was clearly disastrous considering half the population was lost. Take in the kids' age and if time wasn't altered, they would have been mere children when this violent war took place. Polina points out in the series that something seems "deliberate" in the way they're taught at school. It's progressive and promotes the idea of "thinking about the future rather than the past." It's as if something is being purposely hidden from their entire generation. This is obviously unorthodox to us since we're taught you need to learn history so as to not repeat it. But the deliberate vagueness and blanks left in the kids' memories of the old world, especially by higher-ups and schools (consider Ulgar's brother's line "The adults are hiding something") is a clear indicator their memory seems to have been possibly tampered with. This makes memory replacement number one theory.

A faulty timeline can also be possible due to the already-developed wormhole technology. If you consider the idea of wormholes in terms of metaphysics and its definition, they connect two points in space-time, which means time travel and travel between parallel universes are technically possible. This could mean that between the time humanity left the old world and came to Astra through the wormholes, they could've lost a large number of years which could explain the children's ages and allow humanity to rebuild itself significantly. This would also explain why Polina remembers a different history than the children do. We could be talking a whole time travel screw-up here where a parallel universe was created at the breaking off point, which is this supposed World War 3 deal in 1962. Alternate worlds are created whenever a decision is made/not made or a course of action does/does not take place (according to parallel universe theory), meaning the kids' timeline is the result of this World War 3 taking place and Polina's timeline is the result of this war never occurring, leading to the Earth and history WE know.

Or this could be a simple case of the way Polina and the kids interpret time being different. A whole new planet (and possible timeline) could also mean a difference in measuring time.
Modified by sammyk124, Sep 4, 4:05 PM
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Sep 4, 3:55 PM

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_MushiRock11_ said:


Yeah, I was on to that and hit another dead block lol.


Then you might want to watch that episode again. There are little hints here and there.
 
Sep 4, 4:11 PM
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Nim0174 said:
Imagine there's no countries,
it isn't hard to do,
nothing to kill or die for,
and no religion, too.


so John Lennon was from Astra in the future all along xD

this episode was adapted pretty good


Plus making fake history and teaching that to the younger generations. This is more like communism for me. Not a thing that John Lennon hoped for xD
 
Sep 4, 4:14 PM

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LUL. Galem is just a planet of crystal gay frogs okay.
 
Sep 4, 4:17 PM

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TheDeedsOfMen said:
Unfortunately, there is an asteroid-sized plothole here.

They have a civilization with FTL capability and even wormhole technology, yet they apparently cannot divert a single asteroid. That seems implausible. Even if there are reasons why it can't be done, they never even touch the subject or explain why not.

If they have wormhole technology, the ability to produce a large number of wormholes in operation and FTL on top of it, I see no reason why they couldn't be used to change the asteroid's trajectory. Even if the asteroid is 300 kilometers across, all it needs is a relatively gentle push over the years to avoid Earth. The planet is actually a pretty small target in space and in constant movement relative to other bodies, so the trajectory of the asteroid would barely have to change. Far more realistic than moving much of the world's resources to another planet.

Suck up some of the asteroid's mass, ram it with large objects (at FTL speed?), or drop stockpiles of nukes and other explosives if you really can't do anything else. Might as well chip off rocks with wormholes and launch them right back at the asteroid itself from a suitable angle. They don't need to destroy the whole thing; it is enough to push it enough to divert its trajectory. Even if there are some technical reasons why wormholes and FTL can't trivially solve this, they make travel to the asteroid so much faster and more efficient that they can keep pushing or nuking the rock as soon as it's discovered and keep at it every day with huge resources. After all, they must have gigantic resources available if they were able to migrate to another planet.


Also, if an asteroid is 300 kilometers across, it is one of the largest asteroids in the entire solar system. There are only about ten of them. If one of them was headed for Earth, people would know about it much sooner because they are such obvious targets for tracking. Eight years is an outrageously low timespan. I'd be more worried about the 10,000 asteroids with a diameter of about 10 km. How has an FTL civilization not properly tracked the largest asteroids that are well-known even today?

(By the way, I knew about this beforehand because I have read the manga. That's why I thought this through.)


It feels really jarring. An FTL civilization cornered by a single asteroid? Really?
I thought all of this through during watching the episode, not having read it before... I always say the same thing regarding nukes: we aren't actually stupid enough to shoot them at eachother and commit suicide, everyone's too scared to do that, but the cold war provided the world with a quickly adaptable planetary defence system. Within a short amount of time we could repurpose the warheads for space flight and send them at whatever. It also gives us something to prevent a hypothetical invasion from just wiping us out due to primitiveness and degraded unwise society, as with enough guns there could be an established stalemate in which political interactions can commence. Even without wormholes and FTL they'd have plenty stuff to deal with a mega asteroid. And yes, if need be they'd have a long time to be able to set up long-term drilling stations etc on the asteroid if they needed to more strategically position warheads within the rock. Plus with FTL, if you can create enough point-focused energy to achieve FTL, you can probably crack planets with it, so you wouldn't even need the nuclear firecrackers.

I should point out there is also a seldom known fact (i forgive media for not knowing this), that knowing celestial bodies like asteroids, planets, stars etc to be electrostatic bodies, they would be physically unable to impact eachother. Unless very unlucky pecial conditions apply that allow voltage mediation to happen early and reduce repulsion, they should be able to repel of eachother (this would not be without devastation, there'd be all kinds of apocalyptic weather disasters, flooding, mega-volcanoes, colossal earthquakes, interplanetary scale lightning, radiation flares from coronal discharges, etc. If the attacking asteroid is small enough, you will just get an event like Tunguska or Chelyabinsk, where it detonates with nuclear yield in high atmosphere due to insane voltage pressure that atomizes the rock creating an electrical flare which is many times brighter than the sun.

------
Aside from technical plot-holes like this, it's clear it's either alternate timelines or there's been perhaps 1000 years chopped off the calendar. A coverup of this scale could only happen if human population was severely reduced by this event and formulating species-wide amnesia due to deception taking place afterwards. I mean given it's fiction there could be a gigantic global coverup, but as history has already shown, no large scale coverup is ever completely successful. There is always errors and leaks etc. This is also why most conspiracy theories are false, because if it were true it would have been uncovered by now.

Regardless of all that it was yet again another awesome suspenseful episode, and can't wait to see what more the author came up with in creating this story.

@Tatsuya technical issues is not a reason that should significantly affect your impression of a story - the story is about the story, not whether the progression of events and physics seems realistic (that's merely a bonus).

sammyk124 said:
Your assessment on the nature of the wormholes via extrapolations of the einstein-rosen bridge hypothesis are something i've also considered. Being someone who is extremely knowledgeable in the nature of astrophysics and cosmology, i know that the standard model for wormholes is completely false, as is the multiple-universe interpretation of quantum probability... BUT again coming from the perspective of the author not knowing this (or just preferring the common interpretation), it is also a possibility.
Modified by GenesisAria, Sep 4, 9:39 PM
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Sep 4, 4:41 PM
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Wait so Charce tried the wormhole on the first planet and the last planet, that I got. But did he also use it on the second? I mean maybe he wasn't fully invested in the team yet? Also assuming he didn't want to kill everyone off in a simpler manner like poison because that's not his style? Die with the stars and all that.

Anyway this messed up alternate history is confusing and hopefully gets clarified. I mean were there no images or anything to correlate Earth from Astra. Did every adult/teen just agree to vow of silence? Or is this Attack on Titan memory rewriting.
 
Sep 4, 4:45 PM

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ricksed said:
Wait so Charce tried the wormhole on the first planet and the last planet, that I got. But did he also use it on the second? I mean maybe he wasn't fully invested in the team yet? Also assuming he didn't want to kill everyone off in a simpler manner like poison because that's not his style? Die with the stars and all that.

Anyway this messed up alternate history is confusing and hopefully gets clarified. I mean were there no images or anything to correlate Earth from Astra. Did every adult/teen just agree to vow of silence? Or is this Attack on Titan memory rewriting.
The seeing the stars thing was about having his helmet on vs not. The point of the wormhole was to make the bodies disappear. I imagine forensics in their era is highly advanced, so just burning or something might not be sufficient. Plus this way there is a cool story, and you can chop it up to lack of imagination by the perpetrators.
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Sep 4, 4:49 PM

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@GenesisAria I know many around the world educated on wormholes believe it's totally not even feasible, which it likely isn't since most of the information on it is speculation or theory. But considering this is an anime and a fictional sci-fi story, I'm assuming it IS indeed possible to perform such things with wormholes if we think about the fact that wormhole technology has already been achieved in the series. Hell, you can even have portable wormholes on you and control it with a goddamn remote. I have a feeling the author is just playing around with this theory to create their story with some scientific backup since in hindsight it is possible due to the notorious, "it can be possible" reputation wormholes have in accordance to space-time travel.

I was also not dumbing down the metaphysics because of you or anything, you seem very educated on it I was just trying to have it be more understandable to people who don't really know stuff like this.
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Sep 4, 4:58 PM

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sammyk124 said:
@GenesisAria I know many around the world educated on wormholes believe it's totally not even feasible, which it likely isn't since most of the information on it is speculation or theory.
It's more than that, the idea of a wormhole is based on a completely mistaken understanding of cosmology. You can't bend space-time, because that's like saying i'm bending metre-litres... Of what? Space is measurement of magnitudes in volume, time is a measurement of change in magnitudes. They're just measuring sticks. The black hole is an inevitable paradox (contradictive logical failure) of relativistic mathematics, and the wormhole is an extrapolation beyond that, making it a paradox built upon a paradox. It's complete nonsense.
ps: most of the highly credential'd and educated 'scientists' that actually work on stuff like that for a living are even unaware of it, even though it's shockingly easy to notice the issues...

sammyk124 said:
Hell, you can even have portable wormholes on you and control it with a goddamn remote.
A remote with one button at that :P

But yeah that's what i was saying, it's common for sci-fi authors to play with common understandings of hypothetical ideas and weave the into their stories.
Modified by GenesisAria, Sep 4, 5:03 PM
❀桜舞う空~                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
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“A truth seeker has no patience for BS.”

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Sep 4, 5:37 PM

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GenesisAria said:
sammyk124 said:
@GenesisAria I know many around the world educated on wormholes believe it's totally not even feasible, which it likely isn't since most of the information on it is speculation or theory.
It's more than that, the idea of a wormhole is based on a completely mistaken understanding of cosmology. You can't bend space-time, because that's like saying i'm bending metre-litres... Of what? Space is measurement of magnitudes in volume, time is a measurement of change in magnitudes. They're just measuring sticks. The black hole is an inevitable paradox (contradictive logical failure) of relativistic mathematics, and the wormhole is an extrapolation beyond that, making it a paradox built upon a paradox. It's complete nonsense.
ps: most of the highly credential'd and educated 'scientists' that actually work on stuff like that for a living are even unaware of it, even though it's shockingly easy to notice the issues...

sammyk124 said:
Hell, you can even have portable wormholes on you and control it with a goddamn remote.
A remote with one button at that :P

But yeah that's what i was saying, it's common for sci-fi authors to play with common understandings of hypothetical ideas and weave the into their stories.


We can agree space-time theories can get very out of hand, let's make this English class and deduce the idea of nothingness out of an oxymoron of a tragedy by analyzing the hubris that lead to the downfall of the protagonist in Shakespeare's short-story-essay-soliloquy!! Sounds like BS but if read and thought of carefully, it's a goddamn paradox.

Of course it's with one button, it's the fUtUrE, anything is possible xD
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Sep 4, 6:15 PM

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Ah shit, this episode made me quite sad : I knew the culprit/traitor would be revealed sooner or later but still, everyone on the ship was appreciable & I liked watching their development. About his name, well I honestly expected the culprit to be someone none would suspect, like the kindest (Aries), the leader (Kanata) or the thinking-head (Zack).

I admit Charce was out of my list, considering the revelation about his past, but man, to think he accepted such fate.

Ah and a bit unfortunately, Polina's backstory about Earth & Astra was really interesting but got eluded quickly after we learnt the culprit was about to be caught.
 
Sep 4, 6:22 PM

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Otorez said:
Ah shit, this episode made me quite sad : I knew the culprit/traitor would be revealed sooner or later but still, everyone on the ship was appreciable & I liked watching their development. About his name, well I honestly expected the culprit to be someone none would suspect, like the kindest (Aries), the leader (Kanata) or the thinking-head (Zack).

I admit Charce was out of my list, considering the revelation about his past, but man, to think he accepted such fate.

Ah and a bit unfortunately, Polina's backstory about Earth & Astra was really interesting but got eluded quickly after we learnt the culprit was about to be caught.


I basically ruled out Kanata right off the bat, but only because we got to hear his internal thoughts while he was trying to figure out who the traitor is. I have seen a lot of people suspect Aries or Charce.
 
Sep 4, 8:45 PM

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I still don't believe it's Charce, Aries is still suspicious in my view. The bitch emanates some smelly shit about her, or maybe it's me who doesn't like her I want to be cute without trying attitude.
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Sep 4, 8:45 PM

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I knew Kanata was lying about Ulgar being the enemy, and that Ulgar was in on it, especially after he avoided explaining why he suspects Ulgar. I didn't know Zack and the others were in on it too though.
 
Sep 4, 9:07 PM
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Charce? You are the real killer...

And the revelation about earth and planet astra...

I am really liking this show so much
 
Sep 4, 9:15 PM

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Not only is this show underrated but it also rated too low for others to give it a watch. It's second only to Vinland Saga this season and deserves an 8.3-8.5 rating. I wish a big YouTuber like Gigguk watches it and makes a video giving this show a much needed boost.
 
Sep 4, 11:14 PM

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Lol. Pretty obvious it was Charce when he told his backstory and him being a fake transfer student.

Espio74 said:
Not only is this show underrated but it also rated too low for others to give it a watch. It's second only to Vinland Saga this season and deserves an 8.3-8.5 rating. I wish a big YouTuber like Gigguk watches it and makes a video giving this show a much needed boost.
Don't worry, once it's done airing, the score will rise accordingly. People who dropped it early on will not be able to affect the final average score.

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆


watch nodame cantabile

recommend me anything!
 
Sep 4, 11:31 PM

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>Aries (Ariesu)
>Aria Sue
>Seira
What does it all mean!!!???
>"No countries or religions."
For a second there I thought the USSR had won WW3.
-Small nitpick, but the fire in the flashback looked really stupid.
-So everything's coming together, and pretty impressively at that. It's so weird to think that the entire time, they were travelling from Earth to Astra. I feel so bad for Polina. She's going to be thrown into a whole new world. Not to mention that we have no idea how many other twists are to come.
-So Charce is the villain. For some reason, I had a feeling that that was the case and that they were working on entrapping him. It doesn't really make sense that he was the last one in just because he wanted to be. Kanata was correct here, but his assumption was bold because he didn't take many things like athleticism into account. Also, how did Charce outrun a pure athlete like Kanata?
I gotta say...I'm really anticipating the next episode. The anime took a few things out from these chapters, but it looks like this episode covers 38-42 exactly. So 2 episodes will be adapted from 7 chapters. The ride hasn't been all that nice, but the ending is definitely going to be interesting.
I still think no matter how good this ending ends up being, it won't be enough to make up for episodes 2-7 being made up of mostly 4/10s. At best, I feel like I will be giving this series a 7, but who knows, it might continue to wow me.

HaXXspetten said:
I don't even know if this is brilliant or stupid anymore. I feel like it alternates between the two quite frequently

Also I don't really get how just seeing Charce end up going through the orb last somehow automatically makes him the enemy here. I mean that's a pretty vague accusation if you ask me and actually acting upon it like that is pretty ballsy

The connection between Earth and Astra was... I guess sort of what I expected it to be after last episode? Or at least one of the few possibilities of it I could think of, though I hadn't taken the artificial wormhole part of it into account which certainly explains some of the early coincidences in the story at least


>Also I don't really get how just seeing Charce end up going through the orb last somehow automatically makes him the enemy here. I mean that's a pretty vague accusation if you ask me and actually acting upon it like that is pretty ballsy
I agree. And how did Charce outrun Kanata? Given that Kanata is an athlete and all. Charce being in the lead doesn't make any sense and even if it did, Kanata's assumptions were bold, though they were correct.

Spaceship said:
TheDeedsOfMen said:
It feels really jarring. An FTL civilization cornered by a single asteroid? Really?


That crossed my mind as well when Polina was explaining it.

Not sure how to justify it, since you're right: A) a 300km-wide asteroid would be easy to detect ahead of time and B) it would only need a relatively gentle push to move it out of Earth's path, which should not be a problem.

I suppose one possible (tenuous) explanation could be the planet was so ravaged by nuclear war that they wanted to start over, but then I remember that's Astra, not the Earth... Ugh timelines.

Short_Circut said:
The most unrealistic part of this whole series, is humans actually abandoning discrimination and peacefully working together


As much of a Star Trek fan as I am, the whole "humanity has evolved beyond greed and poverty" has always bugged me in the same way. Human nature is what it is.


Yeah, when they said that, it really bugged me too. A united world with all countries eliminated is and will always be a pipe dream. It's just unrealistic for so many reasons, and even if it did happen, there would be balkanization or secession eventually, as one government, even with some level of sovereignty, can not make everyone happy.

-Stray said:
TheDeedsOfMen said:
This is kind of obvious, but they will talk more about the history in the next few episodes.

...Still wouldn't explain the part about the asteroid though, either way. The situation had already stabilized by then, so they wouldn't be eager to move everything to another planet at that point.

They would need to properly explain how to achieve it. That isn't even the most head-scratching social issue though. I'll probably post more about it after the next few episodes.


Oh, I forgot to mention another thing, but I think massive plot twists like these should usually be spaced out a bit more, especially these typical scifi twists. The last-minute barrage is a bit too much.

Clones? Check.
Alternate history? Check.
Apocalyptic event? Check.
Earth wasn't what you expected? Check.

What next? Going back in time and killing Hitler?

Biggesst plot twist being saved for last.
"Whats an anime and manga?"
R.I.P


Damn, imagine if Polina was an anime loving Christian from Earth, and she wakes up to learn all 3 of those things don't exist any more. That would be so isolating.

lihle808 said:
I still don't believe it's Charce, Aries is still suspicious in my view. The bitch emanates some smelly shit about her, or maybe it's me who doesn't like her I want to be cute without trying attitude.


I mean, he pretty much confessed...

Mayuka said:
Lol. Pretty obvious it was Charce when he told his backstory and him being a fake transfer student.

Espio74 said:
Not only is this show underrated but it also rated too low for others to give it a watch. It's second only to Vinland Saga this season and deserves an 8.3-8.5 rating. I wish a big YouTuber like Gigguk watches it and makes a video giving this show a much needed boost.
Don't worry, once it's done airing, the score will rise accordingly. People who dropped it early on will not be able to affect the final average score.


I've got to disagree with both of you here. The intense last 1/3 doesn't make up enough for the weak first 1/3 and second 1/3. I think at best it will end up being a mid-to high 7.
But to each his own.

Modified by Pikslap, Sep 9, 4:39 PM
 
Sep 4, 11:34 PM

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lihle808 said:
I still don't believe it's Charce, Aries is still suspicious in my view. The bitch emanates some smelly shit about her, or maybe it's me who doesn't like her I want to be cute without trying attitude.
Then why does Charce have the remote?
 
Sep 4, 11:42 PM

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Pikslap said:
I've got to disagree with both of you here. The intense last 1/3 doesn't make up enough for the weak first 1/3 and second 1/3. I think at best it will end up being a mid-to high 7.
Gonna disagree with that. I found the entire series very strong. It's a short anime/manga so I'm not gonna expect the best fulfilling plot but for its length, it is very good. I enjoyed seeing their quests on each planet, learning about each character and seeing their backstories, seeing what each person is good at and having some exploring first before jumping into the plot twists like these. So I've thought each and every episode was pretty solid so far.

I think those who dropped it early on knew this wasn't their cup of tea. I think it will be around a 8.1x score at the end as they can actually adapt the entire manga. Pretty rare for a one cour anime.

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆


watch nodame cantabile

recommend me anything!
 
Sep 4, 11:53 PM

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@GenesisAria The problem is the story is based at least partly on logical tropes, but then it throws in 3 extremely impossible scenarios into the mix, from the human habitation thing which is the obvious one, to the erasure of history and religion, 2 things that are impossible, you could change history to an extent but not something as major as erasing entire swaths of history.

Erasing religion is literally impossible without driving humanity dangerously close to inability of reproduction and thus extinction, keep in mind that outside of japan and some countries in the west religion is pretty much a way of life, over 84% of humanity is religious, a third christian alone, your really going to try to claim that not only has humanity become completely atheist in 12 years
but every man, woman and child just simply forgot something that not only was the cornerstone of human civilization for it's entire existence, but was behind many of the innovations that would have lead to the exodus from earth, it's something i can't get over, lest we forget that china and the soviet union persecuted christians for decades, russia is now one of the most religious nations on the planet, and china has a estimated 200 million christians alone, the argument that all of these people, who have undergone literal torture and death for their faith would just up and forget it is ludicrous, not to mention that even science now believes that humans are hardwired to believe in something, if a person loses faith in a higher power, they will place it in a governmental body or a person, hence how god-kings come about (this is also used as a argument for the extremist political movements that have popped up recently).

Sorry about the rant, but it's literally logic defying for me, and took me out of the story, so yes it has ruined the show for me.
 
Sep 4, 11:54 PM
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WOW !, what a spectacular and shocking episode, with an epic ending. Now everything makes sense! It left me more than impressed with the comparisons of history between the planet Earth and the planet Astra, World War III ?, Asteroid? (Oh right, on October 3), WHAT? There is a vacuum and historical manipulation in all this, and it is more than clear that the Astra world government has tried to hide it (this reminds me of the "Empty Century" in One Piece ).
For a moment I thought Kanata was the murderer when he spoke alone in the captain's seat, I thought he was mentally manipulated, but minutes later they revealed to the real culprit, and I was glad it was not Kanata, although it saddens me that Charce betrayed them later of everything that happened together. It was such a sudden turn! Kanata, without a doubt, is a great captain and has proved it by far. So many things have happened, and despite everything, this anime never ceases to amaze me. It always leaves me in shock in the last minutes of each episode, with a lot of intrigue, and looking forward to the next episode.
Without a doubt, this anime is one of the best of the season, and of the year I could say. Its plot simply makes it worth seeing. It is not the first space anime I've seen, but the best one so far (I haven't seen Cowboy Bebop yet).
 
Sep 5, 12:08 AM
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Nim0174 said:
Imagine there's no countries,
it isn't hard to do,
nothing to kill or die for,
and no religion, too.


so John Lennon was from Astra in the future all along xD

this episode was adapted pretty good


When the elite push for "no countries" they are actually talking about turning the world into one country with them at the top. My boring theory was wrong tho haha
 
Sep 5, 12:24 AM

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Well Charce being the "killer" makes sense, still a lot of questions about everything, like why he's good with the plan, why clone Seira if he's just going to kill Aries, all the government secrecy about their old world and the wormhole technology, it's a lot going on.
 
Sep 5, 1:08 AM

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The asteroid thing sounds suspicious. Maybe it was an artificially created event to force humanity to migrate and create a new society or something.

Like they found Astra first, pretended didn't know about it, decided to organize a planetary exodus for some political agenda, redirected the asteroid, sent some teams like Polina's to dangerous places just for smoke screen and rediscovered Astra dramatically in the last minute.


I don't get the actions of Charce. Like he had many other chances to kill them without a trace.Maybe there will be some explanations.
 
Sep 5, 1:13 AM

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Tatsuya said:
@GenesisAria The problem is the story is based at least partly on logical tropes, but then it throws in 3 extremely impossible scenarios into the mix, from the human habitation thing which is the obvious one, to the erasure of history and religion, 2 things that are impossible, you could change history to an extent but not something as major as erasing entire swaths of history.
You can if what i said happens. For example a sudden exodus of humans (probably a small percentage of the population), if all the history books and logs are lost, within a couple generations much of history would vanish from the noosphere.

Tatsuya said:
Erasing religion is literally impossible without driving humanity dangerously close to inability of reproduction and thus extinction, keep in mind that outside of japan and some countries in the west religion is pretty much a way of life, over 84% of humanity is religious, a third christian alone, your really going to try to claim that not only has humanity become completely atheist in 12 years
but every man, woman and child just simply forgot something that not only was the cornerstone of human civilization for it's entire existence, but was behind many of the innovations that would have lead to the exodus from earth, it's something i can't get over, lest we forget that china and the soviet union persecuted christians for decades, russia is now one of the most religious nations on the planet, and china has a estimated 200 million christians alone, the argument that all of these people, who have undergone literal torture and death for their faith would just up and forget it is ludicrous, not to mention that even science now believes that humans are hardwired to believe in something, if a person loses faith in a higher power, they will place it in a governmental body or a person, hence how god-kings come about (this is also used as a argument for the extremist political movements that have popped up recently).

Sorry about the rant, but it's literally logic defying for me, and took me out of the story, so yes it has ruined the show for me.
Atheism is a dogma of anti-religion. It's a belief in the non-existence of theos, god or heavenly/metaphysical existence - ie dogmatic materialism, it's fundamentally a religion that pretends not to be. The only way to eliminate religion is if everybody is able to ascend to a level of actualized/liberated natural philosophical wisdom which transcends the physical and metaphysical. What we see is an atheist materialistic civilization. If the planetary exodus was small scale, and the new planet is a repopulation over a very long period of time, it is possible that history and non-atheistic religion were both victim (intentional or not) by dwindled population. Again a few generations pass and most of it will just be stories. If this civilization is atheist, they could assume that all other religions dies, same if say christianity smothered out all the rest of the other religions; christians would probably say that religion was removed.

Regardless, the story of this anime is about the characters and their circumstances and revelations along the way, suspense and intrigue, the journey. The background stuff is usually broken in most stories, especially sci-fi. I recognize and understand these better than most people and i do not let it significantly affect my ability to appreciate someone else's story/art, as i shouldn't expect everyone to be as well versed in these things as myself; it's their story, not mine. You're better off just living with it, than overreacting to it's background contextual flaws.
Modified by GenesisAria, Sep 5, 1:19 AM
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Sep 5, 1:23 AM

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wait. "Aries" is just "Seira" but backwards. why did I only realize it now lol

anyway, I feel this is the most underrated anime this season. I love all the plot twists.
 
Sep 5, 1:25 AM

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It's okay. Last week I spoilered myself a bit about the remaining plot. I think this will stay 7 for me. For MAL it might reach 7.8 and stay there. Not that great.

While the main plot is okay (nothing too great) it could greatly profit from a dark/tense atmosphere - with the threat and stuff. Not only are they not doing stuff to help create such an atmosphere. They also are actively destroying it with comedy. (Which also the manga seemed to have had.)

That's basically the main problem. Also the stuff with Aries rememberig that Charce would have been last to get swalloped up by the wormhole ... was a sudden reveal and not something too clever or elaborated. Not really deep or special. Nice to watch cause it has a plot and you know it will have an end.

Also the chars - even though the comedy is destroying the atmosphere - are okay. Yeah I'll stay with 7 even after previous and this episode. Probably staying with 7 until the end.
 
Sep 5, 1:33 AM

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Short_Circut said:
The most unrealistic part of this whole series, is humans actually abandoning discrimination and peacefully working together
Spaceship said:
As much of a Star Trek fan as I am, the whole "humanity has evolved beyond greed and poverty" has always bugged me in the same way. Human nature is what it is.
Pikslap said:
Yeah, when they said that, it really bugged me too. A united world with all countries eliminated is and will always be a pipe dream. It's just unrealistic for so many reasons, and even if it did happen, there would be balkanization or secession eventually, as one government, even with some level of sovereignty, can not make everyone happy.

It's not really that much of a pipe dream. Defining human nature confined to context of current and past struggle, as the true fundamental traits of humanity, is a frozen abstraction. To assume human nature is to fight because humans have fought so much, is a logical failure. It's like satanists believing that human nature is intrinsically bad because they do bad things when in a bind... That only happens because the bad situation forces them to do bad things. If the world, i dunno, realized it's ability to harness abundant energy and grow abundant crops, and people were able to come to understand some basic philosophical principles such as "you are not your body/mind/thoughts/feelings/beliefs" as these are phenomenal attributes associated with you but not the actual you, then with these 2 things you could essentially eliminate the cause of pretty much all strife. The only reason, for example,that religions fight eachother, is because they define themselves as their religion, thus a dissenting voice on their religion, a potential threat on their religion, is seen as a personal attack, or as an enemy due to the threat to the sense of self. No wise person who is part of any religion will ever be bothered by other beliefs, nor believe that they are on the only side of truth.

If the conditions are idealized, humanity will also become ideal. Humans will not steal if they have abundance, they will often give instead (monetary wealth is not real abundance, it is usually a mental sickness of illusory abundance)... just as humans will not usually give if they are void of abundance. Star Trek's world works in the context communism would work if there was a system of automation that could supply the needs of everyone within it. If nobody has to do any dirty jobs, if nobody has to work hard for food, if it's all there at the push of a button, then stuff like economy is mostly obsolete (aside from art trade i guess). It would be difficult to achieve and is thereby improbable, but not impossible.

ps: stories are generally told due to their improbability, it's interesting because it's a special case. typical normal likely common stories tend to be less interesting, unless they have a relaxation familiarity comfort appeal like say nichijou-kei ('slice of life") media.

pps: but yes Pikslap, a single philosophy society is likely to eventually collapse into factions eventually due to disagreements on that philosophy.


TheDeedsOfMen said:
What next? Going back in time and killing Hitler?
Red Alert already did that.
Modified by GenesisAria, Sep 5, 1:43 AM
❀桜舞う空~                   Cute is Power.           🔗CosmoGenesis Project
“You cannot know what you do not know.”
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
“A truth seeker has no patience for BS.”

I seek only to improve myself and others.
 
Sep 5, 3:03 AM
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Nim0174 said:
Imagine there's no countries,
it isn't hard to do,
nothing to kill or die for,
and no religion, too.


so John Lennon was from Astra in the future all along xD

this episode was adapted pretty good

when you think of it there's a king's and politician and correct me if I'm wrong one of our characters brothers was killed by politician so it feels like the there's anarchy on Astra and Charce childhood friend was put in sleep (what's ever it called) was discriminated (again what's ever it called) (well after that happened I don't know if that's true or not but most likely true)

so my point is there is killing and dying happening there it's human nature

and about there's no religion thing I have a theory about it forgetting religion was like forgetting tradition (tradition and religion is not accurately desame)but I'm pointing out forgetting what culture is, what your ancestor have passed down to future generation (I know some of it was bad) but forgetting it completely is very bad thing
theory about relationship and government
they might have a dispute about religion so they might completely obliterate it so they can stay on power at some point (well government always have conflict about religion(problematic religion))

no one wants to live with a secret on their life
 
Sep 5, 4:15 AM
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Another explosive episode. This show simply amazes me. I can't take my eyes off of my screen, if that happens then this is
one hell of a show!

I like the no religion phrase. It raises tons of argument.

Can't wait for next week.
 
Sep 5, 5:22 AM

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Okay, I'm a bit confused with the chronology to be honest, and it all feels a bit crazy, but cool I guess. So Charce was the one who was sent to kill them, huh. Kanata really got to the right answer, with a bit of help from Aries' super memory. Let's see what else Charce has to tell them.
 
Sep 5, 5:26 AM

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Ten said:
For a moment there I thought that Aries might be the enemy, that twist could be really interesting. Didn't fall for Ulgar-the-enemy thing and saw through the plan to fish out the real one, except my first suspicion was about Zack. Well, anyhow the revelation seemed kinda bland. Of course, they'll all still stay friends and will go back home on sunshine and rainbows...

I liked the part with Earth-Astra more, I'm actually intrigued what happened and how exactly the population is deceived.


Like with Naruto and the Kyuubi, perhaps all the older generations are lying to the next ones. Laws, brainwashing... who knows.

Also. Memory transfer technology exists in some form, even if it's under development. Wouldn't memory modification be a previous step to getting there?

Might be a bit hard to rewrite EVERYONE's memories, just pass 'em through a wormhole and zap their

Also think it's been way longer than 6 years since Astra was colonized. Maybe they just reset history from 1962 and it's actually been 100 years?
 
Sep 5, 6:09 AM

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GenesisAria said:

It's not really that much of a pipe dream. Defining human nature confined to context of current and past struggle, as the true fundamental traits of humanity, is a frozen abstraction. To assume human nature is to fight because humans have fought so much, is a logical failure.


Well, it's a larger debate really, but those aren't really the grounds on which people come to realize that human nature is fundamentally selfish and destructive. If you want to make the argument that humans would all get along if only we had all our needs met, my 2-year-old toddler would have some words for you, even though he's provided for and loved in abundance. If human nature were eminently perfectible, the "hands-off" parenting approach would be ideal...

But anyway.
 
Sep 5, 6:45 AM

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Wow, this show has definitely been a surprise for me this season. I almost forgot there was an enemy on the ship until this episode. Hope it can stick the landing.
 
Sep 5, 7:11 AM

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This was another info-heavy episode, but one that I really enjoyed. =)

A decent chunk of the episode was used to explain about Earth and Astra. Polina's mission was to find suitable planets to re-home all of humanity to avoid getting wiped out by a 300km-sized meteorite that would hit Earth. It was weird that none of the students knew anything about Earth at all, due to the lack of info referring to life on Earth, or the "old era", for that matter. Sounds fishy, doesn't it?

But the events that happened to Earth after the Cold War between Polina and the alternate version from Aries was a bit unexpected, too. It makes me wonder if the the memories of the students were tampered with or not...

But still, the fact that Earth had turned into an ice planet was, admittedly, scary. ^^'

Kanata's plan to catch the traitor went off perfectly. Charce was the traitor all along, although Aries was having a hard time accepting that fact. Charce also revealed that he is a clone of the king of the region that he used to live in. With this in mind, I want to know who the mastermind is who wanted all of these clones to disappear without a trace. These last two episodes are going to be really interesting, that's for sure. =)
 
Sep 5, 7:45 AM

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I freaking knew it



 
Sep 5, 10:55 AM

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GenesisAria said:
Short_Circut said:
The most unrealistic part of this whole series, is humans actually abandoning discrimination and peacefully working together
Spaceship said:
As much of a Star Trek fan as I am, the whole "humanity has evolved beyond greed and poverty" has always bugged me in the same way. Human nature is what it is.
Pikslap said:
Yeah, when they said that, it really bugged me too. A united world with all countries eliminated is and will always be a pipe dream. It's just unrealistic for so many reasons, and even if it did happen, there would be balkanization or secession eventually, as one government, even with some level of sovereignty, can not make everyone happy.

It's not really that much of a pipe dream. Defining human nature confined to context of current and past struggle, as the true fundamental traits of humanity, is a frozen abstraction. To assume human nature is to fight because humans have fought so much, is a logical failure. It's like satanists believing that human nature is intrinsically bad because they do bad things when in a bind... That only happens because the bad situation forces them to do bad things. If the world, i dunno, realized it's ability to harness abundant energy and grow abundant crops, and people were able to come to understand some basic philosophical principles such as "you are not your body/mind/thoughts/feelings/beliefs" as these are phenomenal attributes associated with you but not the actual you, then with these 2 things you could essentially eliminate the cause of pretty much all strife. The only reason, for example,that religions fight eachother, is because they define themselves as their religion, thus a dissenting voice on their religion, a potential threat on their religion, is seen as a personal attack, or as an enemy due to the threat to the sense of self. No wise person who is part of any religion will ever be bothered by other beliefs, nor believe that they are on the only side of truth.

If the conditions are idealized, humanity will also become ideal. Humans will not steal if they have abundance, they will often give instead (monetary wealth is not real abundance, it is usually a mental sickness of illusory abundance)... just as humans will not usually give if they are void of abundance. Star Trek's world works in the context communism would work if there was a system of automation that could supply the needs of everyone within it. If nobody has to do any dirty jobs, if nobody has to work hard for food, if it's all there at the push of a button, then stuff like economy is mostly obsolete (aside from art trade i guess). It would be difficult to achieve and is thereby improbable, but not impossible.

ps: stories are generally told due to their improbability, it's interesting because it's a special case. typical normal likely common stories tend to be less interesting, unless they have a relaxation familiarity comfort appeal like say nichijou-kei ('slice of life") media.

pps: but yes Pikslap, a single philosophy society is likely to eventually collapse into factions eventually due to disagreements on that philosophy.


TheDeedsOfMen said:
What next? Going back in time and killing Hitler?
Red Alert already did that.

idk about the other 2, but I wasn't trying to point out that it's way too idealized for something like that to happen (hence the sarcastic cross out). To me I think it has to do with people just not being educated enough on these things which leads to these mindsets that cause discrimination and whatnot. And because of that, they choose to follow suit with others' mindsets, which only adds on to all the racism/whatever that goes on
'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped'


 
Sep 5, 11:22 AM

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Mayuka said:
Pikslap said:
I've got to disagree with both of you here. The intense last 1/3 doesn't make up enough for the weak first 1/3 and second 1/3. I think at best it will end up being a mid-to high 7.
Gonna disagree with that. I found the entire series very strong. It's a short anime/manga so I'm not gonna expect the best fulfilling plot but for its length, it is very good. I enjoyed seeing their quests on each planet, learning about each character and seeing their backstories, seeing what each person is good at and having some exploring first before jumping into the plot twists like these. So I've thought each and every episode was pretty solid so far.

I think those who dropped it early on knew this wasn't their cup of tea. I think it will be around a 8.1x score at the end as they can actually adapt the entire manga. Pretty rare for a one cour anime.


>I enjoyed seeing their quests on each planet, learning about each character and seeing their backstories, seeing what each person is good at
I get this to some degree. For me though, I just couldn't get attached to any of the characters. They were just so basic, for the most part. On the other hand, I could sympathize with some of them sometimes. I also get why they told everyone's backstories.
A) Because it's relevant to why they were wormholed away.
B) Because it made you wonder who the traitor was.
I can appreciate that to an extent, and while the backstories were alright, to me, the characters themselves were very lacking.
But I can definitely see other POVs, such as yours.
>as they can actually adapt the entire manga. Pretty rare for a one cour anime.
I've been reading the manga alongside the anime, and I agree with this (as in I agree it was a good adaptation). They left out very little. I gotta give them props for that.

GenesisAria said:
Short_Circut said:
The most unrealistic part of this whole series, is humans actually abandoning discrimination and peacefully working together
Spaceship said:
As much of a Star Trek fan as I am, the whole "humanity has evolved beyond greed and poverty" has always bugged me in the same way. Human nature is what it is.
Pikslap said:
Yeah, when they said that, it really bugged me too. A united world with all countries eliminated is and will always be a pipe dream. It's just unrealistic for so many reasons, and even if it did happen, there would be balkanization or secession eventually, as one government, even with some level of sovereignty, can not make everyone happy.

It's not really that much of a pipe dream. Defining human nature confined to context of current and past struggle, as the true fundamental traits of humanity, is a frozen abstraction. To assume human nature is to fight because humans have fought so much, is a logical failure. It's like satanists believing that human nature is intrinsically bad because they do bad things when in a bind... That only happens because the bad situation forces them to do bad things. If the world, i dunno, realized it's ability to harness abundant energy and grow abundant crops, and people were able to come to understand some basic philosophical principles such as "you are not your body/mind/thoughts/feelings/beliefs" as these are phenomenal attributes associated with you but not the actual you, then with these 2 things you could essentially eliminate the cause of pretty much all strife. The only reason, for example,that religions fight eachother, is because they define themselves as their religion, thus a dissenting voice on their religion, a potential threat on their religion, is seen as a personal attack, or as an enemy due to the threat to the sense of self. No wise person who is part of any religion will ever be bothered by other beliefs, nor believe that they are on the only side of truth.

If the conditions are idealized, humanity will also become ideal. Humans will not steal if they have abundance, they will often give instead (monetary wealth is not real abundance, it is usually a mental sickness of illusory abundance)... just as humans will not usually give if they are void of abundance. Star Trek's world works in the context communism would work if there was a system of automation that could supply the needs of everyone within it. If nobody has to do any dirty jobs, if nobody has to work hard for food, if it's all there at the push of a button, then stuff like economy is mostly obsolete (aside from art trade i guess). It would be difficult to achieve and is thereby improbable, but not impossible.

ps: stories are generally told due to their improbability, it's interesting because it's a special case. typical normal likely common stories tend to be less interesting, unless they have a relaxation familiarity comfort appeal like say nichijou-kei ('slice of life") media.

pps: but yes Pikslap, a single philosophy society is likely to eventually collapse into factions eventually due to disagreements on that philosophy.


TheDeedsOfMen said:
What next? Going back in time and killing Hitler?
Red Alert already did that.


I actually agree with about 80% of what you said. You come off as very well-versed. However, I do think you underestimate the natural greed and meanness some humans possess. I don't think natural greed and meanness will go away. If we can manage to make it "go away", we still have the problem with greed being prevalent in politicians. The problem is, society needs leaders to sustain itself (or at least a society as big as ours). If we manage to get rid of greed, it will pop back up in people who attain power. Not all people in power, but it will still be there. I don't really have any studies to back up what I am saying though. I doubt we will ever see a united peace in our timeline though, and I don't think our world would recover enough from a nuclear war to create a united peace, as the world in Kanata No Astra apparently did.

Modified by Pikslap, Sep 9, 4:40 PM
 
Sep 5, 1:03 PM

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Damn so many twists!

The clone thing almost made me forget about earth thing! So much to take in.

But how will it all tie up?

Damn I just binged this and seems I chose the perfect cliff hanger to do so on..
"When everyone else is about to give up, the fighter who becomes the role model, is the true Leader."

 
Sep 5, 1:55 PM

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Spaceship said:
GenesisAria said:

It's not really that much of a pipe dream. Defining human nature confined to context of current and past struggle, as the true fundamental traits of humanity, is a frozen abstraction. To assume human nature is to fight because humans have fought so much, is a logical failure.
Well, it's a larger debate really, but those aren't really the grounds on which people come to realize that human nature is fundamentally selfish and destructive. If you want to make the argument that humans would all get along if only we had all our needs met, my 2-year-old toddler would have some words for you, even though he's provided for and loved in abundance. If human nature were eminently perfectible, the "hands-off" parenting approach would be ideal...

But anyway.
A 2yo is ignorant and unaware of anything, and no it's not in abundance, it has noting until you give to it, cuz it has no ability to get it's own needs - you have to teach someone how to fish (or say use a replicator) before they can get fish without asking for it, and obviously they have to be cognizant enough to understand. The idea that humans are selfish and destructive is a bias and fallacy.i didn't say JUST needs met, i also said wisdom. Human nature is neutral. People are good under good conditions and are bad under bad conditions. Also a baby's abundance is more like a rich person's, it's not a real abundance, it's illusory due to ack of comprehension of it. For example if a rich guy deep down wants love, but doesn't realize it and only feels a hole in their life, if they are under the false impression that money brings happiness, they'll keep endlessly accumulating it thinking it'll eventually make them happy, when really all they ever needed was some decent non-material love.

The subject is a lot more sophisticated and nuanced than just "people tend to be elfish and destructive, therefore human nature is such" when in reality humanity has never had an ideal society, other than maybe some renditions of the Hindu perhaps, so there isn't much of an example to go on.

Pikslap said:
I actually agree with about 80% of what you said. You come off as very well-versed. However, I do think you underestimate the natural greed and meanness some humans possess. I don't think natural greed and meanness will go away. If we can manage to make it "go away", we still have the problem with greed being prevalent in politicians. The problem is, society needs leaders to sustain itself (or at least a society as big as ours). If we manage to get rid of greed, it will pop back up in people who attain power. Not all people in power, but it will still be there. I don't really have any studies to back up what I am saying though. I doubt we will ever see a united peace in our timeline though, and I don't think our world would recover enough from a nuclear war to create a united peace, as the world in Kanata No Astra apparently did.
It's the same thing i am saying to spaceship here, assuming that to be fundamental is a falsehood through through a biased lens of human history. For example, people are getting worse in present day, why is that? It's because society is deteriorating. We don't live in a golden age, we live in a dark age presently.

No we do not necessarily need world leaders to sustain ourselves, that is a belief by those in favour of a power system. If you suddenly killed off all leaders in a world that depends on leadership, then yes there would be pandemonium. But if the society was built to live that way, as ours was built ti live with leaders, it could just as easily work under a balanced philosophy. I mean if you think about it, mist towns and villages all throughout history were mostly anarchic, and they rarely felt the control of their rulership amongst their daily lives unless they were drafted for a war or if they were in a city with significant legal guard/policing.

There's loads of philosophical discussions that exist on this very topic; it's one of the most discussed topics in philosophy: what is the best way for society to run, and no philosopher has ever been able to give a true answer, and no group of philosophers have been able to completely agree.
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Sep 5, 2:33 PM

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GenesisAria said:
Spaceship said:
Well, it's a larger debate really, but those aren't really the grounds on which people come to realize that human nature is fundamentally selfish and destructive. If you want to make the argument that humans would all get along if only we had all our needs met, my 2-year-old toddler would have some words for you, even though he's provided for and loved in abundance. If human nature were eminently perfectible, the "hands-off" parenting approach would be ideal...

But anyway.
A 2yo is ignorant and unaware of anything, and no it's not in abundance, it has noting until you give to it, cuz it has no ability to get it's own needs - you have to teach someone how to fish (or say use a replicator) before they can get fish without asking for it, and obviously they have to be cognizant enough to understand. The idea that humans are selfish and destructive is a bias and fallacy.i didn't say JUST needs met, i also said wisdom. Human nature is neutral. People are good under good conditions and are bad under bad conditions. Also a baby's abundance is more like a rich person's, it's not a real abundance, it's illusory due to ack of comprehension of it. For example if a rich guy deep down wants love, but doesn't realize it and only feels a hole in their life, if they are under the false impression that money brings happiness, they'll keep endlessly accumulating it thinking it'll eventually make them happy, when really all they ever needed was some decent non-material love.

The subject is a lot more sophisticated and nuanced than just "people tend to be elfish and destructive, therefore human nature is such" when in reality humanity has never had an ideal society, other than maybe some renditions of the Hindu perhaps, so there isn't much of an example to go on.


Nah, not really. Every baby born is selfish and destructive by nature; and they have to be "civilized" through the influence of family and society. Who we are pre-societal influence is who we really are, i.e. our nature. The utopias presented in Star Trek or Astra will never exist, and "pure communism" (as envisioned by Marx, Engels, etc) is a fantasy that would require the complete alteration of unalterable human nature in order to succeed.



On a related note, that's part of the reason I love Firefly so much. In creating the show, Whedon said, "nothing will change in the future: technology will advance, but we will still have the same political, moral, and ethical problems as today." Right on.
 
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