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#1
Aug 16, 7:53 PM
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Specifically referring to episode 5, hero, here. Spoilers ahead for s3 part 2.

One of my favorite scenes in part 2 is when Armin basically sacrifices himself to bring down the colossal titan. He hooks himself to the titans teeth and basically gets cooked to a crisp doing so all to distract bertolt from eren. Now heres where I see a problem that no one seems to have noticed or cared about. Gravity.

Armin unhooks and plummets down onto a building while eren goes for the nape. The colosal titan is huge, in fact, its 60 meters tall (200 feet). Being generous here and saying the building was 10 meters tall and that armin was hovering around 55 meters (he was hooked to the mouth), he would still have fallen 45 meters onto a solid rock building without immediately dying on impact. This is all overlooking the fact that he was just burned to a crisp. That just isn't humanely possible.

Is this simply a mistake that most people decide to ignore or is there an explanation somewhere in the manga?
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
#2
Aug 16, 8:10 PM
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3212924/ Well, it's clearly plausible to survive that.
 
#3
Aug 16, 8:22 PM
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angelk99 said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3212924/ Well, it's clearly plausible to survive that.


Citing miracle cases doesn't help much, unless you have one where someone was burned to death right before. If you read your link it, they only survived because they landed feet first, Armin was unconscious, and from how his body was positioned he would've landed on his back, neck and head
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
#4
Aug 16, 8:31 PM
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I loved the episode myself, but surviving being cooked extra crispy and falling 140 ft onto his back is very very unlikely in real life. Even if he had survived in real life, he wouldn't have stayed alive for long after he landed.

It's an anime action/fantasy series, so suspension of disbelief certainly plays a big role here, and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the show.



 
#5
Aug 16, 8:34 PM
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Tranqualizer said:
angelk99 said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3212924/ Well, it's clearly plausible to survive that.


Citing miracle cases doesn't help much, unless you have one where someone was burned to death right before. If you read your link it, they only survived because they landed feet first, Armin was unconscious, and from how his body was positioned he would've landed on his back, neck and head


You don't know if Armin was unconscious before the fall and you can't know how he landed just looking at his position, especially when it's drawn. Also, there are a lot of cases of people surviving burns as Armin, even explosions. Of course, it's not very common but it is possible.
 
#6
Aug 16, 8:39 PM
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Also, remember that Eldians ARE NOT HUMANS. I have seen Armin lifting a super-heavy rock at the end of season 1. No human could do that either.
 
#7
Aug 16, 11:09 PM
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angelk99 said:
Also, remember that Eldians ARE NOT HUMANS. I have seen Armin lifting a super-heavy rock at the end of season 1. No human could do that either.


not tryna get into a debate here on this. I've always presumed them as humans and seen no reason to think otherwise. Was just wondering if the manga had addressed the fall and it was left out or if it was just convenient lazy writing. Doesn't seem it has.
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
#8
Aug 16, 11:23 PM
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Tranqualizer said:
angelk99 said:
Also, remember that Eldians ARE NOT HUMANS. I have seen Armin lifting a super-heavy rock at the end of season 1. No human could do that either.


not tryna get into a debate here on this. I've always presumed them as humans and seen no reason to think otherwise. Was just wondering if the manga had addressed the fall and it was left out or if it was just convenient lazy writing. Doesn't seem it has.


It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Episode 57 clearly states that Eldians are not humans. They are subjects of Ymir, aka titans.
 
#9
Aug 16, 11:32 PM
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Tranqualizer said:
angelk99 said:
Also, remember that Eldians ARE NOT HUMANS. I have seen Armin lifting a super-heavy rock at the end of season 1. No human could do that either.


not tryna get into a debate here on this. I've always presumed them as humans and seen no reason to think otherwise. Was just wondering if the manga had addressed the fall and it was left out or if it was just convenient lazy writing. Doesn't seem it has.


Na, the manga doesn't address the fall.
 
Aug 17, 4:39 AM
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Let's be honest, does it really serve any purpose of the plot knowing how and why Armin survived the fall?
 
Aug 17, 5:32 AM
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ABDoesThings said:
Let's be honest, does it really serve any purpose of the plot knowing how and why Armin survived the fall?


Its just a matter of details. I like digging into an anime and seeing that all the minor details add up. Some people don't mind that and that's cool too. To each his own.
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
Aug 17, 5:34 AM
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Tranqualizer said:
ABDoesThings said:
Let's be honest, does it really serve any purpose of the plot knowing how and why Armin survived the fall?


Its just a matter of details. I like digging into an anime and seeing that all the minor details add up. Some people don't mind that and that's cool too. To each his own.


I don't know, I just kinda find it weird that all people can complain about is Armin surviving the fall. Like, why are you complaining about a guy being alive?
 
Aug 17, 5:37 AM
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ABDoesThings said:
Tranqualizer said:


Its just a matter of details. I like digging into an anime and seeing that all the minor details add up. Some people don't mind that and that's cool too. To each his own.


I don't know, I just kinda find it weird that all people can complain about is Armin surviving the fall. Like, why are you complaining about a guy being alive?


Because its central to the main plot? You can't pick between armin and erwin if armin is already dead. I mean I get that you don't mind it but for something so core to the story, you gotta see that it'll bother at least some people right?
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
Aug 17, 6:09 AM
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No matter how much attack on titan fans says this show is realistic, it's still a fictional series which also have plot armor like literally every popular series and why kill a really major character that soon, the final arc hasn't finished yet. Him surviving make no sense but it's a fictional series so there is no need to complain.
Modified by ExodiaX, Aug 17, 3:49 PM
 
Aug 17, 12:53 PM
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Shingeki is my favorite anime/manga, but I still can't justify Armin surviving a fall from those heights; it isn't realistic for their universe.

Remember in season 1, when Sasha shoots her 3DMG hook through the foot of a guy who fell off the wall, unconscious? She probably took such a drastic measure because he would have died if he had fallen from that high up and hit the buildings/ground below.

People talk about "ass pulls" for Reiner, but I don't buy it. We've seen, again and again, how hard it is to kill a titan shifter, whether it be Reiner or any other shifter. And several times, a specific mechanism is explained or can be pieced together by readers.

You can't say that about Armin, who has no usable powers or practical latent abilities.
Nonetheless, I don't get hung up on it or let it take away from my enjoyment of the series.
 
Aug 17, 1:15 PM
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najumobi said:


People talk about "ass pulls" for Reiner, but I don't buy it. We've seen, again and again, how hard it is to kill a titan shifter, whether it be Reiner or any other shifter. And several times, a specific mechanism is explained or can be pieced together by readers.



I agree. However, the only thing about Reiner's predicament during the battle in Shinganshina was his ability to transfer his consciousness to other parts of his body. It came out of nowhere.

I don't even think it was required either as titan shifters are notoriously difficult to kill off and have the ability to regenerate quickly provided they have a strong will to live. Reiner re-generating and having little to no memory of events leading up his head being blown off would have been consequence enough with all the consciousness nonsense.
 
Aug 17, 3:16 PM
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xenosys said:
najumobi said:
People talk about "ass pulls" for Reiner, but I don't buy it. We've seen, again and again, how hard it is to kill a titan shifter, whether it be Reiner or any other shifter. And several times, a specific mechanism is explained or can be pieced together by readers.
I agree. However, the only thing about Reiner's predicament during the battle in Shinganshina was his ability to transfer his consciousness to other parts of his body. It came out of nowhere.

I don't even think it was required either as titan shifters are notoriously difficult to kill off and have the ability to regenerate quickly provided they have a strong will to live. Reiner re-generating and having little to no memory of events leading up his head being blown off would have been consequence enough with all the consciousness nonsense.
Yeah it would have been a little better if that brain function shift ability was foreshadowed a smidgen.

Like the erasing memories thing is shocking, but it fits within the context of our knowledge since season 1 that no one knows how the walls were built; and on top of that, no character gives specifics about the supposed attack that occurred 100 years ago. Which seemed weird to me at the time.
 
Aug 17, 3:21 PM

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Yeah, it was probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest, bullshit moment in SnK. Definitely one of the low points. I am surprised Isayama went for that instead of making Armin's survival bit more plausible.
 
Aug 17, 4:40 PM

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this is the worst asspull in snk and the worst part in RTS arc.
 
Aug 17, 6:05 PM

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ranzer said:
this is the worst asspull in snk and the worst part in RTS arc.


The manga would like to have a word with you.
Not spoilng, obvs.
 
Aug 18, 3:12 AM
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I dont have any explanation for that,, But I can make some points,,

1.Armin's ODM gear was still working,he was attached to it. May be it helped him .
2.We Don't know when Eren came out of his nape after crystallizing. May be Eren had picked up Armin.
3.It's not unusual for a person unconscious and burnt to live after that fall.Besides,it's a fiction.
 
Aug 18, 4:49 AM
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NakolHira said:
I dont have any explanation for that,, But I can make some points,,

1.Armin's ODM gear was still working,he was attached to it. May be it helped him .
2.We Don't know when Eren came out of his nape after crystallizing. May be Eren had picked up Armin.
3.It's not unusual for a person unconscious and burnt to live after that fall.Besides,it's a fiction.


1. We clearly saw his odm gear start melting, high doubt it did him any favors.
2. I thought about that but it would take away the whole point of the plan to distract bertolt. Theres just no way eren catches armin and puts him down on a building when armin basically gives his life to distract him for a couple minutes. The chance that bertolt would see him is much too high. Also if this did happen, it would've been really easy to show/hint/say which the show did none so its out as an option.
3. Its 45 meters. Usually, the cut off point for survival is around 30 meters, unless you somehow miracle land on your feet and let them take most of the impact or land on something extremely soft. There's just no possible way he survives that fall. Even fictional works should stick to the rules they set for themselves. Thats what separates good writing from sloppy writing.
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
Aug 18, 5:58 AM

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I mean it's undeniable that the main cast has a certain level of plot armour throughout the story. Whether it disrupts your viewing experience is subjective. Personally, I found it kinda funny when he was shown to be alive, mans was cooked well done and didn't shatter into a million pieces when he fell.
 
Aug 18, 8:27 AM
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Maybe that colossus steam was responsible for reducing the impact, also because they were near the gate it was possible for Armin to land on a house rooftop.
 
Aug 18, 8:38 AM
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Kuruga-san said:
Maybe that colossus steam was responsible for reducing the impact, also because they were near the gate it was possible for Armin to land on a house rooftop.

The colosal titan blows steam in a horizontal line, not vertical. That doesn't really help against gravity. you need a vertical force to reduce impact. And armin did land on a house rooftop. From what we see he lands right in the middle of it, where theres a stone section of the roof...probably the worst possible material to land on
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
Aug 18, 8:48 AM

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This is just a common thing in shonen. The average human is much more durable than in real life.
 
Aug 18, 10:07 AM
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fancyjasper said:
This is just a common thing in shonen. The average human is much more durable than in real life.


Usually shonen characters have powers or something like that and each shonen has a different world setting where usually all the characters are extremely durable and go flying through moutains, which is totally fine. As long as they don't contradict the world they set I see no problem with that. But aot is built on people dying out of no where, everyone's fair game and small mistakes can kill you. That's where a lot of the enjoyment for me comes from and seeing that overlooked is disappointing.
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
Aug 18, 10:22 AM

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Tranqualizer said:
fancyjasper said:
This is just a common thing in shonen. The average human is much more durable than in real life.


Usually shonen characters have powers or something like that and each shonen has a different world setting where usually all the characters are extremely durable and go flying through moutains, which is totally fine. As long as they don't contradict the world they set I see no problem with that. But aot is built on people dying out of no where, everyone's fair game and small mistakes can kill you. That's where a lot of the enjoyment for me comes from and seeing that overlooked is disappointing.


True, i can't see many people complaining about why a character like Luffy being hit miles across the screen into a wall and not dying, since One Piece isn't trying to be realistic. I do think Aot could've done something about this. Just have a random solider fly in and grab Armin before he hits the ground. Or maybe when the colossal titan was emitting steam have it fall to the ground, because it doesn't have enough muscle to support it's legs anymore or something, so when Armin falls it's not a huuge fall that makes people question how he survived it.
Modified by fancyjasper, Aug 18, 10:25 AM
 
Aug 18, 10:35 AM

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ABDoesThings said:
Let's be honest, does it really serve any purpose of the plot knowing how and why Armin survived the fall?

well yeah, cause if Armin didn't survive the fall then the entire debate episode would've been condensed into like 2 minutes lol



Yea that was a very bs scene for me, one of the reasons it leaned more towards a 9 for me rather than 10. It seems even the general consensus from manga readers as well is that is was a giant asspull. Like yea, you could say people have survived similar situations, but Armin was not only burnt to a crisp, he also fell straight down from whatever amount of feet, presumably landed on his spine and straight onto the house support. The only possible scenario would be the "these guys aren't really human" situation, but there have been characters in the series that have died from far less extreme scenarios
'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped'


 
Aug 27, 9:15 PM
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Suspension of disbelief, my friend. Just like Erwin managed to survive those rocks being shot through his body, Armin was lucky as well. The series has been defying physics logic since its first episode, so it's not entirely unbelievable - in the context of the show, always.
 
Aug 29, 3:36 AM
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A lot of things happen in this show doesn't make sense in real Life. just enjoy it
 
Aug 29, 8:54 AM
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It's possible that he could survive for a few minutes. An fatal injury does not necessarily cause instant death.
 
Aug 29, 9:08 AM
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I don't know really where the problem is?
I mean they didn't say he is alive and safe and he will live with these injuries as if nothing happened. He just heavily injured and on the verge of death and they must use the syringe on him as quick as possible to revive/heal him. They did not say he won't die, it was just that he didn't die instantly. Falling from a height doesn't always kill instantly. The person may be in a coma for a few moments and possibly days then die. Burns "never" kill instantly and people who die in fires die of suffocation and not the burns themselves. The person after being burnt, suffers from pain from the burns till he die of other factors related to the burns. In both cases they don't usually die instantly and sometimes may last for days till death and in Armin's case you can say he lived for possibly 30 mins till he took the syringe. I don't know why people find Armin's survival for those 30 mins illogical?!!

Don't get me wrong! I really believe that if Armin died, it would have been better and more impactful and powerful due to the death of a main character but I don't think it's illogical or that his survival was an asspull as many says. Maybe the problem is that it feels more like a plot armor, but it would also feel like a plot armour if Erwin was the one who took the syringe but still it would have been better if Erwin was the one who took the syringe instead of Armin but I am Ok with that.
Modified by N0-0NE, Aug 29, 9:44 AM
 
Aug 29, 8:00 PM
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N0-0NE said:
Falling from a height doesn't always kill instantly. The person may be in a coma for a few moments and possibly days then die.

From that height in which he fell and the fact that he landed on a solid surface with no cushioning...that will always kill instantly unless by some miracle he lands on a specific part of his leg and puts the force on it, which he couldn't do as he was clearly unconscious.
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
Aug 30, 1:36 PM
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Tranqualizer said:
N0-0NE said:
Falling from a height doesn't always kill instantly. The person may be in a coma for a few moments and possibly days then die.

From that height in which he fell and the fact that he landed on a solid surface with no cushioning...that will always kill instantly unless by some miracle he lands on a specific part of his leg and puts the force on it, which he couldn't do as he was clearly unconscious.

I think the steam may act as a cushion that decreases the speed of falling and actually you can notice the odm gear stretching before detaching from the colossal's bones which may decrease the impact of falling. If you can't notice this part in the anime, you can clearly see it in the manga.

How much was the height he fell from anyway? I think it was no more than 35 metres. The buildings are about 15 metres high "approximation from the titans heights" and the wall itself is 50 metres. Factoring in the steam and the gear part, I actually don't think by putting these in mind that he must die instantly after these injuries, not saying that the fall did not injure him heavily but that the impact was not heavy enough to kill instantly. I hope you get my point.
 
Aug 30, 5:05 PM
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N0-0NE said:
Tranqualizer said:

From that height in which he fell and the fact that he landed on a solid surface with no cushioning...that will always kill instantly unless by some miracle he lands on a specific part of his leg and puts the force on it, which he couldn't do as he was clearly unconscious.

I think the steam may act as a cushion that decreases the speed of falling and actually you can notice the odm gear stretching before detaching from the colossal's bones which may decrease the impact of falling. If you can't notice this part in the anime, you can clearly see it in the manga.

How much was the height he fell from anyway? I think it was no more than 35 metres. The buildings are about 15 metres high "approximation from the titans heights" and the wall itself is 50 metres. Factoring in the steam and the gear part, I actually don't think by putting these in mind that he must die instantly after these injuries, not saying that the fall did not injure him heavily but that the impact was not heavy enough to kill instantly. I hope you get my point.
45 meters is already quite generous there is no way its a 35 meter fall, but even then if you know anything about gravity, steam blowing out in a horizontal line wont effect the speed of anything falling vertically. And i dont get what you mean by the odm stretching first, that was pre fall and wont effect anything. Theres just no way he does not die instantly on impact from that fall.
"The universe has a beginning, but no end. — Infinite. Stars, too, have their own beginnings, but their own power results in their destruction. — Finite. It is those who possess wisdom who are the greatest fools. History has shown us this. You could say that this is the final warning from God to those who resist."
 
Aug 31, 4:58 AM
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It was already stated that the walls are 50m high and the buildings are about the same height of Eren's titan which was stated to be 15m high. Armin fell from the same level of the wall's top (50m) to one of the buildings' roofs so I don't think it was no more than a 35m fall.(50 - 15 = 35)
Besides, I don't think steam is being blown horizintally only, it seems to be blowing in all directions around the colssal's body, and that's why I said it affects the impact of the fall.
And as for the gear it did not stretch completely prefall and it stretched to its full length during the fall so as it detaches the impact of the fall will be affected.
 
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