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Poll: Vinland Saga Episode 6 Discussion


Aug 14, 8:10 AM

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The animation seemed a bit stiffer in this episode. Otherwise, I though the fight scenes were pretty cool.

The second half of the episode was rather sad. I'm interested to see what happens next.
 
Aug 14, 8:27 AM

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Chrawnus said:
JakkoFourEyes said:


Lol there's absolutely nothing honourable about what he's currently doing. The duel won't be very honourable if he got there by helping Askeladd and his men kill and rape entire villages. He can stay with them all he wants, but actually helping them is an entirely different thing.
I get that he's blinded by revenge, but this is really extreme.


It's not about what's honourable to you, it's about what's honourable in Viking culture.

Is that really how viking culture work tho? Killing a man in is sleep is dishonorable but raiding villages is ok? I'm not an historian but that doesn't really make that much sense to me tbh.
 
Aug 14, 8:32 AM
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vhagar8 said:
Chrawnus said:


It's not about what's honourable to you, it's about what's honourable in Viking culture.

Is that really how viking culture work tho? Killing a man in is sleep is dishonorable but raiding villages is ok? I'm not an historian but that doesn't really make that much sense to me tbh.


Vikings believed in 'honour by combat' there is no honour in killing someone in his sleep only in combat, and all you get in combat is yours by right, be it slaves, treasure or warever. They where stronger than those villagers, soo theres nothing wrong in raiding and pillaging them. Same with Thorfinn dilema, Askellad killed his father, soo he has the obligation of avenging him or else he would be seen as a coward, but most would have waited until they became grown men before seeking revenge.
 
Aug 14, 8:41 AM
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Best episode so far, which is saying something since this series has been riding the high waves from the beginning. Great character development for Thorfinn, excellent OST, and beautiful emotional moments. I was repeatedly muttering "oh my god" when the mother was crying. The animation took a noticeable dip here, though it's nothing major.
 
Aug 14, 8:52 AM

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Tougen said:
vhagar8 said:

Is that really how viking culture work tho? Killing a man in is sleep is dishonorable but raiding villages is ok? I'm not an historian but that doesn't really make that much sense to me tbh.


Vikings believed in 'honour by combat' there is no honour in killing someone in his sleep only in combat, and all you get in combat is yours by right, be it slaves, treasure or warever. They where stronger than those villagers, soo theres nothing wrong in raiding and pillaging them. Same with Thorfinn dilema, Askellad killed his father, soo he has the obligation of avenging him or else he would be seen as a coward, but most would have waited until they became grown men before seeking revenge.

So you're saying that when vikings raid a village they politely wait for the villagers to get prepared and pick up their weapons? Because I don't really see how killing a disarmed person differs from killing a person in his sleep. And if by any chance someone is like too drunk to fight while they're raiding what? They wait for his hangover to pass before challenging him to a duel?
I genuinely don't understand why Vikings would have any issue with killing a person in his sleep.
 
Aug 14, 9:41 AM
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vhagar8 said:

So you're saying that when vikings raid a village they politely wait for the villagers to get prepared and pick up their weapons? Because I don't really see how killing a disarmed person differs from killing a person in his sleep. And if by any chance someone is like too drunk to fight while they're raiding what? They wait for his hangover to pass before challenging him to a duel?
I genuinely don't understand why Vikings would have any issue with killing a person in his sleep.


Different rules probably apply for different folks. So while vikings think that other vikings should be afforded a fair duel, people who you consider to be less than human (i.e. anyone who is English/Christian, like the those villagers), should be slaughtered like pigs.

The application of different principles for how "others" should be treated is pretty common. "My own group of people are entitled to rights 1, 2, 3; you other people aren't entitled to any rights at all.

I don't think every single person in history used to think this way, but I would be surprised if it wasn't the prevailing belief system.
Modified by najumobi, Aug 14, 9:46 AM
 
Aug 14, 11:05 AM
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najumobi said:
vhagar8 said:

So you're saying that when vikings raid a village they politely wait for the villagers to get prepared and pick up their weapons? Because I don't really see how killing a disarmed person differs from killing a person in his sleep. And if by any chance someone is like too drunk to fight while they're raiding what? They wait for his hangover to pass before challenging him to a duel?
I genuinely don't understand why Vikings would have any issue with killing a person in his sleep.


Different rules probably apply for different folks. So while vikings think that other vikings should be afforded a fair duel, people who you consider to be less than human (i.e. anyone who is English/Christian, like the those villagers), should be slaughtered like pigs.

The application of different principles for how "others" should be treated is pretty common. "My own group of people are entitled to rights 1, 2, 3; you other people aren't entitled to any rights at all.

I don't think every single person in history used to think this way, but I would be surprised if it wasn't the prevailing belief system.

Based on the nation-country systems it still is prevalent, alas.
Re:formed
 
Aug 14, 11:34 AM
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vhagar8 said:
Tougen said:


Vikings believed in 'honour by combat' there is no honour in killing someone in his sleep only in combat, and all you get in combat is yours by right, be it slaves, treasure or warever. They where stronger than those villagers, soo theres nothing wrong in raiding and pillaging them. Same with Thorfinn dilema, Askellad killed his father, soo he has the obligation of avenging him or else he would be seen as a coward, but most would have waited until they became grown men before seeking revenge.

So you're saying that when vikings raid a village they politely wait for the villagers to get prepared and pick up their weapons? Because I don't really see how killing a disarmed person differs from killing a person in his sleep. And if by any chance someone is like too drunk to fight while they're raiding what? They wait for his hangover to pass before challenging him to a duel?
I genuinely don't understand why Vikings would have any issue with killing a person in his sleep.


They have no problem with killing people in their sleep per say, its just that they must prove they are better fighters than their rivals to earn a spot in valhalla, soo killing a rival in their sleep would be seen as cowardly because that would mean they fear their riva and thus would NEVER win respect by doing that, not because 'its wrong to kill people when they cant defend themselves'. As for the vilagers? They are just weaklings, a means to make a proffit seeling slaves and pillaging all they have.

That dosent mean vikings are stupid either, if they can outsmart their enemies they will do it, a commander dosent want to lose soldiers needlessly even if they are vikings, soo murdering all the villagers before they have a chance to flee and call reinforcements from another garison is just the natural move.
 
Aug 14, 12:08 PM

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Tougen said:
vhagar8 said:

So you're saying that when vikings raid a village they politely wait for the villagers to get prepared and pick up their weapons? Because I don't really see how killing a disarmed person differs from killing a person in his sleep. And if by any chance someone is like too drunk to fight while they're raiding what? They wait for his hangover to pass before challenging him to a duel?
I genuinely don't understand why Vikings would have any issue with killing a person in his sleep.


They have no problem with killing people in their sleep per say, its just that they must prove they are better fighters than their rivals to earn a spot in valhalla, soo killing a rival in their sleep would be seen as cowardly because that would mean they fear their riva and thus would NEVER win respect by doing that, not because 'its wrong to kill people when they cant defend themselves'. As for the vilagers? They are just weaklings, a means to make a proffit seeling slaves and pillaging all they have.

That dosent mean vikings are stupid either, if they can outsmart their enemies they will do it, a commander dosent want to lose soldiers needlessly even if they are vikings, soo murdering all the villagers before they have a chance to flee and call reinforcements from another garison is just the natural move.

Mmmmm ok, if that's what they're going for in this anime, it's really poorly derivered imo, but at least I guess I can see a little bit where they're coming from now, thanks.
 
Aug 14, 12:26 PM

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Too bad the animation quality dropped this episode
 
Aug 14, 12:46 PM
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vhagar8 said:
Tougen said:


They have no problem with killing people in their sleep per say, its just that they must prove they are better fighters than their rivals to earn a spot in valhalla, soo killing a rival in their sleep would be seen as cowardly because that would mean they fear their riva and thus would NEVER win respect by doing that, not because 'its wrong to kill people when they cant defend themselves'. As for the vilagers? They are just weaklings, a means to make a proffit seeling slaves and pillaging all they have.

That dosent mean vikings are stupid either, if they can outsmart their enemies they will do it, a commander dosent want to lose soldiers needlessly even if they are vikings, soo murdering all the villagers before they have a chance to flee and call reinforcements from another garison is just the natural move.

Mmmmm ok, if that's what they're going for in this anime, it's really poorly derivered imo, but at least I guess I can see a little bit where they're coming from now, thanks.


It's not poorly delivered at all. You have to have some basic sense of what Vikings are and what their culture is. They shouldn't have to hold your hands.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Killing a warrior in his sleep = dishonorable

Killing a warrior in a duel = honorable

Pillaging and raiding = common place

You have convoluted completely separate issues because you are projecting YOUR moral values on to THEM. You CAN NOT do that when watching ANY historical work. EVER. Otherwise you will end up confused and it honestly comes off as ignorant as well.

 
Aug 14, 1:11 PM
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I want ask humans how do you think do torfin see his family agin.
 
Aug 14, 2:25 PM

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ChainxBastard said:
vhagar8 said:

Mmmmm ok, if that's what they're going for in this anime, it's really poorly derivered imo, but at least I guess I can see a little bit where they're coming from now, thanks.


It's not poorly delivered at all. You have to have some basic sense of what Vikings are and what their culture is. They shouldn't have to hold your hands.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Killing a warrior in his sleep = dishonorable

Killing a warrior in a duel = honorable

Pillaging and raiding = common place

You have convoluted completely separate issues because you are projecting YOUR moral values on to THEM. You CAN NOT do that when watching ANY historical work. EVER. Otherwise you will end up confused and it honestly comes off as ignorant as well.


You shouldn't be required to have any sort of previous knowledge to watch an anime. And c'mon are u seriosly saying I'm the one projecting my moral values on em? Isn't the anime fucking concept to project our values in the vikings society?

Anyway, none of these "warriors' code" values or whatever is mentioned in the anime. Never is mentioned that thorfinn is following them to earn a spot in valhalla or whatever. The only reason presented in the anime as to why thorfinn is following them is to get revenge, which to me, it's a fucking dumb reason. That's everything the anime tells us and that's what I'm sticking to, if there were other reasons the author forgot to mention, it's his bad. And that's why I said it's poorly delivered.
 
Aug 14, 2:55 PM
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vhagar8 said:
ChainxBastard said:


It's not poorly delivered at all. You have to have some basic sense of what Vikings are and what their culture is. They shouldn't have to hold your hands.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Killing a warrior in his sleep = dishonorable

Killing a warrior in a duel = honorable

Pillaging and raiding = common place

You have convoluted completely separate issues because you are projecting YOUR moral values on to THEM. You CAN NOT do that when watching ANY historical work. EVER. Otherwise you will end up confused and it honestly comes off as ignorant as well.


You shouldn't be required to have any sort of previous knowledge to watch an anime. And c'mon are u seriosly saying I'm the one projecting my moral values on em? Isn't the anime fucking concept to project our values in the vikings society?

Anyway, none of these "warriors' code" values or whatever is mentioned in the anime. Never is mentioned that thorfinn is following them to earn a spot in valhalla or whatever. The only reason presented in the anime as to why thorfinn is following them is to get revenge, which to me, it's a fucking dumb reason. That's everything the anime tells us and that's what I'm sticking to, if there were other reasons the author forgot to mention, it's his bad. And that's why I said it's poorly delivered.


It's common knowledge. Like, elementary. Even still, Valhalla was explained when Thorfinn was play fighting and he was the first one to die. He talked about it to his friend who also "died" in the game.

The anime concept isn't to "project" our values in Viking's society. As far as I can tell, it's a message about the horrors of war and how it twists innocent people and forces people to join in on needless conflict.

Earning a spot in Valhalla has literally nothing to do with why Thorfinn wants to kill Askeladd. Thorfinn wants to avenge his father's death by killing Askeladd in an honorable duel BECAUSE Askeladd killed his father DISHONORABLY. It's literally spelled out for you in the 5th episode.

Wanting revenge is not a dumb reason. He was raised in an environment where people CONSTANTLY avenge the deaths of their comrades, let alone their fathers.

The author covered all of his bases so far. I don't understand why you're so confused. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I really don't understand how you can't follow 6 episodes worth of prologue. The information given isn't hard to grasp either, it's literally said overtly. Maybe you need to rewatch all of the episodes again.
 
Aug 14, 3:29 PM

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ChainxBastard said:
vhagar8 said:

You shouldn't be required to have any sort of previous knowledge to watch an anime. And c'mon are u seriosly saying I'm the one projecting my moral values on em? Isn't the anime fucking concept to project our values in the vikings society?

Anyway, none of these "warriors' code" values or whatever is mentioned in the anime. Never is mentioned that thorfinn is following them to earn a spot in valhalla or whatever. The only reason presented in the anime as to why thorfinn is following them is to get revenge, which to me, it's a fucking dumb reason. That's everything the anime tells us and that's what I'm sticking to, if there were other reasons the author forgot to mention, it's his bad. And that's why I said it's poorly delivered.


It's common knowledge. Like, elementary. Even still, Valhalla was explained when Thorfinn was play fighting and he was the first one to die. He talked about it to his friend who also "died" in the game.

The anime concept isn't to "project" our values in Viking's society. As far as I can tell, it's a message about the horrors of war and how it twists innocent people and forces people to join in on needless conflict.

Earning a spot in Valhalla has literally nothing to do with why Thorfinn wants to kill Askeladd. Thorfinn wants to avenge his father's death by killing Askeladd in an honorable duel BECAUSE Askeladd killed his father DISHONORABLY. It's literally spelled out for you in the 5th episode.

Wanting revenge is not a dumb reason. He was raised in an environment where people CONSTANTLY avenge the deaths of their comrades, let alone their fathers.

The author covered all of his bases so far. I don't understand why you're so confused. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I really don't understand how you can't follow 6 episodes worth of prologue. The information given isn't hard to grasp either, it's literally said overtly. Maybe you need to rewatch all of the episodes again.

The fact that Thorfinn cares more about getting his revenge HONORABLY than actually getting his revenge is what is fucking dumb. If he really cared about avenging his father he'd do it in every way possible. He's willing to go as far as; serve the man who killed his father, help him raiding villages, rejecting his father teachings and start killing people, wait decades to get get his revenge. But he's not willing to go "as far" as killing the man he actually wants to kill in his sleep?
That doesn't make any sense, and it's the poorest characterization I've seen in a long time.
The fact that the anime spells out that in ep 5 doesn't change anything. Acknowledging how bad u are doesn't make u any better. It's not about not understanding the premise, it's about the premise being stupid as fuck.
 
Aug 14, 3:40 PM
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vhagar8 said:
ChainxBastard said:


It's common knowledge. Like, elementary. Even still, Valhalla was explained when Thorfinn was play fighting and he was the first one to die. He talked about it to his friend who also "died" in the game.

The anime concept isn't to "project" our values in Viking's society. As far as I can tell, it's a message about the horrors of war and how it twists innocent people and forces people to join in on needless conflict.

Earning a spot in Valhalla has literally nothing to do with why Thorfinn wants to kill Askeladd. Thorfinn wants to avenge his father's death by killing Askeladd in an honorable duel BECAUSE Askeladd killed his father DISHONORABLY. It's literally spelled out for you in the 5th episode.

Wanting revenge is not a dumb reason. He was raised in an environment where people CONSTANTLY avenge the deaths of their comrades, let alone their fathers.

The author covered all of his bases so far. I don't understand why you're so confused. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I really don't understand how you can't follow 6 episodes worth of prologue. The information given isn't hard to grasp either, it's literally said overtly. Maybe you need to rewatch all of the episodes again.

The fact that Thorfinn cares more about getting his revenge HONORABLY than actually getting his revenge is what is fucking dumb. If he really cared about avenging his father he'd do it in every way possible. He's willing to go as far as; serve the man who killed his father, help him raiding villages, rejecting his father teachings and start killing people, wait decades to get get his revenge. But he's not willing to go "as far" as killing the man he actually wants to kill in his sleep?
That doesn't make any sense, and it's the poorest characterization I've seen in a long time.
The fact that the anime spells out that in ep 5 doesn't change anything. Acknowledging how bad u are doesn't make u any better. It's not about not understanding the premise, it's about the premise being stupid as fuck.


What you are saying makes no sense.

1) Thorfinn cares about doing it honorably because doing so would bring honor to his FATHER. You don't care about honor personally, which is fine, but HE and this CULTURE does. Why do you think they say, "In the name of [insert ancestor here]," before they engage in an HONORABLE duel?

If he killed Askeladd in his sleep, I.E. in a DISHONORABLE way, THEN HE IS NO BETTER THAN ASKELADD.

2) He's serving him to get stronger in order TO defeat him in a duel. He needs experience in battle, even if it means fighting and pillaging farmers. IN SPITE of this, he still attempted to save the village this episode and tell everyone to run. But it was too late.

3) Thorfinn rejected his father's teachings since episode 2. Come up with a better point.

4) The premise isn't dumb, because it's a critically acclaimed manga series for what I have been told. Everyone sings its praises, but somehow, you know better in spite of your fundamental lack of comprehension.

You can't seem to get over that what Thorfinn is doing makes sense for HIS time period, NOT OURS.

In essence, he's NOT doing what YOU would do, so YOU think it's dumb. That is asinine.

You OBVIOUSLY don't have an honorable bone in your body, but DO NOT PROJECT THAT onto Thorfinn.
 
Aug 14, 4:56 PM

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ChainxBastard said:
vhagar8 said:

The fact that Thorfinn cares more about getting his revenge HONORABLY than actually getting his revenge is what is fucking dumb. If he really cared about avenging his father he'd do it in every way possible. He's willing to go as far as; serve the man who killed his father, help him raiding villages, rejecting his father teachings and start killing people, wait decades to get get his revenge. But he's not willing to go "as far" as killing the man he actually wants to kill in his sleep?
That doesn't make any sense, and it's the poorest characterization I've seen in a long time.
The fact that the anime spells out that in ep 5 doesn't change anything. Acknowledging how bad u are doesn't make u any better. It's not about not understanding the premise, it's about the premise being stupid as fuck.


What you are saying makes no sense.

1) Thorfinn cares about doing it honorably because doing so would bring honor to his FATHER. You don't care about honor personally, which is fine, but HE and this CULTURE does. Why do you think they say, "In the name of [insert ancestor here]," before they engage in an HONORABLE duel?

If he killed Askeladd in his sleep, I.E. in a DISHONORABLE way, THEN HE IS NO BETTER THAN ASKELADD.

2) He's serving him to get stronger in order TO defeat him in a duel. He needs experience in battle, even if it means fighting and pillaging farmers. IN SPITE of this, he still attempted to save the village this episode and tell everyone to run. But it was too late.

3) Thorfinn rejected his father's teachings since episode 2. Come up with a better point.

4) The premise isn't dumb, because it's a critically acclaimed manga series for what I have been told. Everyone sings its praises, but somehow, you know better in spite of your fundamental lack of comprehension.

You can't seem to get over that what Thorfinn is doing makes sense for HIS time period, NOT OURS.

In essence, he's NOT doing what YOU would do, so YOU think it's dumb. That is asinine.

You OBVIOUSLY don't have an honorable bone in your body, but DO NOT PROJECT THAT onto Thorfinn.


I have to agree with @ChainxBastard. Maybe if Vinland Saga was set in our period, I'd understand your point more @vhagar8, but it's not. It's set in an era where honor means a lot. I think we should think of it this way:
Thorfinn witnessed his father being dishonorably killed in front of him, when he was a child. This hammers in the, "honor > everything" point in his mind. You're right in that it's stupid that he's willing to do so much to kill Askeladd (participate in pillaging, killing people, etc). Yet, in a twisted way, dishonorably avenging his father crosses that line. Because, as @ChainxBastard has said, from Thorfinn's perspective, he'd be no better than Askeladd.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
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Aug 14, 5:27 PM
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shane_nichols said:
Ya know Kimetsu may have better animation and godlike visuals, but Vinland has a much better story. I love em both in different ways.

Never compare kimetsu to vinland
Vinland is such a superior show it's ridiculous
 
Aug 14, 5:47 PM
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This really is top notch show. From a fairly pedestrian opening couple of episodes, it has really picked up big time since, and I love the complexity in Thorfinn's morally dubious upbringing, and makes a nice change from the typically shounen-esque morally righteous black or white characters. I understand this is a Seinen so shouldn't be so encumbered with these tropes, but it's a refreshing change none the less.

Having read the manga, I obviously know what is coming, but so far it seems to have been adapted pretty well by WiT.

I don't understand the perceptions by some in this thread that it's too graphic or some of the themes are too raw. The events of the show may not be historically accurate right down a T, but the setting and brutality of that particular period is.
The 10-11th century wasn't all roses and sunshine for everyone. War wasn't pleasant, and women were treated like disposable commodities a lot of the time.


 
Aug 14, 6:15 PM

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HopefulNihilist said:
ChainxBastard said:


What you are saying makes no sense.

1) Thorfinn cares about doing it honorably because doing so would bring honor to his FATHER. You don't care about honor personally, which is fine, but HE and this CULTURE does. Why do you think they say, "In the name of [insert ancestor here]," before they engage in an HONORABLE duel?

If he killed Askeladd in his sleep, I.E. in a DISHONORABLE way, THEN HE IS NO BETTER THAN ASKELADD.

2) He's serving him to get stronger in order TO defeat him in a duel. He needs experience in battle, even if it means fighting and pillaging farmers. IN SPITE of this, he still attempted to save the village this episode and tell everyone to run. But it was too late.

3) Thorfinn rejected his father's teachings since episode 2. Come up with a better point.

4) The premise isn't dumb, because it's a critically acclaimed manga series for what I have been told. Everyone sings its praises, but somehow, you know better in spite of your fundamental lack of comprehension.

You can't seem to get over that what Thorfinn is doing makes sense for HIS time period, NOT OURS.

In essence, he's NOT doing what YOU would do, so YOU think it's dumb. That is asinine.

You OBVIOUSLY don't have an honorable bone in your body, but DO NOT PROJECT THAT onto Thorfinn.


I have to agree with @ChainxBastard. Maybe if Vinland Saga was set in our period, I'd understand your point more @vhagar8, but it's not. It's set in an era where honor means a lot. I think we should think of it this way:
Thorfinn witnessed his father being dishonorably killed in front of him, when he was a child. This hammers in the, "honor > everything" point in his mind. You're right in that it's stupid that he's willing to do so much to kill Askeladd (participate in pillaging, killing people, etc). Yet, in a twisted way, dishonorably avenging his father crosses that line. Because, as @ChainxBastard has said, from Thorfinn's perspective, he'd be no better than Askeladd.

No really. His father was a coward who refused to kill people and ran away from the battlefield, he was literally the dishonor of vikings himslef, he didn't deserve to be treated with honor but to be killed like a dog. If thorfinn really cared about vikings morals, he'd piss on his father tomb.
But I'm the one projecting my morals on the story...
Whenever his porpose is to avenge his father or to honor his memory, it's done poorly
 
Aug 14, 6:28 PM

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phantomfandom said:

And is this fantasy? A group of highly developed countries were once involced in such an unreasonably barbaric act?


Oh boy, you don't know nothing about human history...
 
Aug 14, 6:36 PM

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vhagar8 said:
HopefulNihilist said:


I have to agree with @ChainxBastard. Maybe if Vinland Saga was set in our period, I'd understand your point more @vhagar8, but it's not. It's set in an era where honor means a lot. I think we should think of it this way:
Thorfinn witnessed his father being dishonorably killed in front of him, when he was a child. This hammers in the, "honor > everything" point in his mind. You're right in that it's stupid that he's willing to do so much to kill Askeladd (participate in pillaging, killing people, etc). Yet, in a twisted way, dishonorably avenging his father crosses that line. Because, as @ChainxBastard has said, from Thorfinn's perspective, he'd be no better than Askeladd.

No really. His father was a coward who refused to kill people and ran away from the battlefield, he was literally the dishonor of vikings himslef, he didn't deserve to be treated with honor but to be killed like a dog. If thorfinn really cared about vikings morals, he'd piss on his father tomb.
But I'm the one projecting my morals on the story...
Whenever his porpose is to avenge his father or to honor his memory, it's done poorly


What you're saying is complete nonsense.
 
Aug 14, 8:20 PM
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Seein Thorfinn grow up was great as well as his fighting skills. That women who took him in really breaks my heart. Seeing that comb broken on the floor hit me right in the fells.
 
Aug 14, 10:17 PM

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oof, finally feeling for thorfinn
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Aug 14, 10:51 PM
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vhagar8 said:
HopefulNihilist said:


I have to agree with @ChainxBastard. Maybe if Vinland Saga was set in our period, I'd understand your point more @vhagar8, but it's not. It's set in an era where honor means a lot. I think we should think of it this way:
Thorfinn witnessed his father being dishonorably killed in front of him, when he was a child. This hammers in the, "honor > everything" point in his mind. You're right in that it's stupid that he's willing to do so much to kill Askeladd (participate in pillaging, killing people, etc). Yet, in a twisted way, dishonorably avenging his father crosses that line. Because, as @ChainxBastard has said, from Thorfinn's perspective, he'd be no better than Askeladd.

No really. His father was a coward who refused to kill people and ran away from the battlefield, he was literally the dishonor of vikings himslef, he didn't deserve to be treated with honor but to be killed like a dog. If thorfinn really cared about vikings morals, he'd piss on his father tomb.
But I'm the one projecting my morals on the story...
Whenever his porpose is to avenge his father or to honor his memory, it's done poorly


Yea, you're a lost cause. I wish there was a way for a mod to see your idiotic posts and to disable your right to vote or rate anime on the site and to block your posts in general.

Stupidity runs rampant on this site. Either that or you're a troll.

I'm glad that other people know how dumb you sound.
 
Aug 15, 3:22 AM
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ChainxBastard said:
vhagar8 said:

No really. His father was a coward who refused to kill people and ran away from the battlefield, he was literally the dishonor of vikings himslef, he didn't deserve to be treated with honor but to be killed like a dog. If thorfinn really cared about vikings morals, he'd piss on his father tomb.
But I'm the one projecting my morals on the story...
Whenever his porpose is to avenge his father or to honor his memory, it's done poorly


Yea, you're a lost cause. I wish there was a way for a mod to see your idiotic posts and to disable your right to vote or rate anime on the site and to block your posts in general.

Stupidity runs rampant on this site. Either that or you're a troll.

I'm glad that other people know how dumb you sound.

He is right though. If we look at it from the prevalent viking morality of the dark ages, then Thors was a disgrace and Thorfinn should not have wanted to avenge him. However idiotic his input is, he is right that from a standpoint of logic, neither Thors nor Thorfinn were generic vikings.
Re:formed
 
Aug 15, 3:50 AM

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ChainxBastard said:
vhagar8 said:

No really. His father was a coward who refused to kill people and ran away from the battlefield, he was literally the dishonor of vikings himslef, he didn't deserve to be treated with honor but to be killed like a dog. If thorfinn really cared about vikings morals, he'd piss on his father tomb.
But I'm the one projecting my morals on the story...
Whenever his porpose is to avenge his father or to honor his memory, it's done poorly


Yea, you're a lost cause. I wish there was a way for a mod to see your idiotic posts and to disable your right to vote or rate anime on the site and to block your posts in general.

Stupidity runs rampant on this site. Either that or you're a troll.

I'm glad that other people know how dumb you sound.

I wish there was a way to filter the quotes and not get notified if the comment is this worthless
Yeah u don't always get what u wish :/
Modified by vhagar8, Aug 15, 3:56 AM
 
Aug 15, 5:37 AM

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vhagar8 said:

No really. His father was a coward who refused to kill people and ran away from the battlefield, he was literally the dishonor of vikings himslef, he didn't deserve to be treated with honor but to be killed like a dog. If thorfinn really cared about vikings morals, he'd piss on his father tomb.
But I'm the one projecting my morals on the story...


You're right, you've just pointed out one of the contradicting plots for Thorfinn in this story. BUT there's an actual reason for that.
Believe me, the author did this on purpose. It ties in to the overall arching theme the author has for this story.


 
Aug 15, 6:00 AM
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Daniel_Naumov said:
ChainxBastard said:


Yea, you're a lost cause. I wish there was a way for a mod to see your idiotic posts and to disable your right to vote or rate anime on the site and to block your posts in general.

Stupidity runs rampant on this site. Either that or you're a troll.

I'm glad that other people know how dumb you sound.

He is right though. If we look at it from the prevalent viking morality of the dark ages, then Thors was a disgrace and Thorfinn should not have wanted to avenge him. However idiotic his input is, he is right that from a standpoint of logic, neither Thors nor Thorfinn were generic vikings.


You can't be serious.

Thors didn't die in a drunken stupor and got stabbed to death by a drunk thug at a pub. He died PROTECTING his son AND his village AFTER he had been DISHONORABLY killed in a duel THAT HE HAD WON.

Thorfinn is avenging him TO RECLAIM HIS FATHER'S HONOR.
 
Aug 15, 8:08 AM
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elementex said:
tiwibo said:

So, you're defending your "original" opinion on a frustratingly generic anime with corner cutting effort - though there are currently 726 users who voted 10/10. So "original" I must say. That's already funnier than the whole show. Also, the fact that Vinland Saga's lack of waifus is your idea of an "original" criticism means that being original doesn't necessarily mean good. So, don't pride yourself on having "original" opinions every time.


I understand it has faults, I could easily drop it to 8 or 9, but with all the 1 bombers dropping the show under a 6 just because it's isekai I have to stay at 10 to combat that.

I guess we can expect more alt accounts of you balancing Vinland Saga with 1s😂
 
Aug 15, 9:04 AM

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Very sad, I see it'll be a very heartbreaking and strong story.
 
Aug 15, 9:20 AM

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Short_Circut said:
Black_Sheep97 said:
The cgi wasnt that bad jesus christ

Yeah....no. Just look at the battle between the Danes vs. English in the daytime. That was like Overlord S3 level cgi lel


Allow me to introduce you to shield heros cgi soldiers. You'll appreciate Vinland CGI soldiers more when you look at the unfinished cgi models of shield hero soldiers. Seriously those things looked like atrocious clay models and were dropping frames mad hard.
Modified by Byleth-Kun, Aug 15, 9:46 AM
 
Aug 15, 9:45 AM
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ChainxBastard said:
Daniel_Naumov said:

He is right though. If we look at it from the prevalent viking morality of the dark ages, then Thors was a disgrace and Thorfinn should not have wanted to avenge him. However idiotic his input is, he is right that from a standpoint of logic, neither Thors nor Thorfinn were generic vikings.


You can't be serious.

Thors didn't die in a drunken stupor and got stabbed to death by a drunk thug at a pub. He died PROTECTING his son AND his village AFTER he had been DISHONORABLY killed in a duel THAT HE HAD WON.

Thorfinn is avenging him TO RECLAIM HIS FATHER'S HONOR.

That might be true, but then again, this is not because Thorfinn is a hardboiled viking, he is a son of an enlightened viking who brought Thorfinn up with morals extremely deviating from the general understanding of world at that time. You can say Thors was living in 2000 when everyone else was rotting in 1000. From the Thorfinns viewpoint, Thors is a hero. From the viewpoing of mainstream viking philosophy, Thors is a coward and a traitor to his people, and Thorfinn is a stupid brat. Perspective, my men, perspective.
Re:formed
 
Aug 15, 9:50 AM

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People have their own tastes on what they think about the series, but me personally, I'm loving every minute of it, the slow build up helps a ton especially for me. I'm refraining as hard as I can to score this piece of artwork from just six episodes alone as I don't give a score until I'm either finished with a anime or the animes air time ends cause something might change in the series that I either love or hate for it.
 
Aug 15, 5:29 PM

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Mythologically said:
This is beginning to rival Dr. Stone for the title of "hardest to believe show of the season". The little kid can kill professional soldiers because he is the main character 😎.

It's also beginning to rival Arifureta for worst CGI of the season. For having pretty good animation and art, the CGI is pathetic.

I'll give this a couple more episodes, but so far even the action scenes have bored me to death.

I understand that you don't like these kind of narratives, but comparing this CGI to Arifureta? Don't you think that's a little bit of an overreaction?
Arifureta literally looks like they just took assets out of a PS1 game and shove it in your face. Vinland Saga, while not the best and quite noticeable, utilises it well through using it for ships and oceans. 3D CGI characters are not even that bad, plus they are used for long distant shots instead of in your face which I appreciate.
They are using it appropriately from my perspective, regardless of the quality. Calm down.
Story comes first, art comes second.
 
Aug 15, 6:19 PM
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thorfinn sure did is improving better at his fighting skills, his agility is what he is using to kill his enemies...

well lets see what will happen in the next episode,
 
Aug 15, 8:08 PM
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Good episode We saw the evolution in Thorfinn's fighting, or killing, abilities. From his first murder, being a Viking, there is no turning back. Thorfinn's cruel and vindictive life continues.

I felt very sorry for the grandmother who saved and healed Thorfinn 😢. DAMN! They have no mercy, but so are the damn wars.
 
Aug 16, 6:07 AM

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@vhagar8 He was a legendary warrior who after years of accomplishments decided to desert and live a ordinary life. The Jomsvikings want him back because of his skills, but he gets a price on his head in secrecy.

He was ready to get back on the battlefield so please tell me who exactly in the story should believe he's a coward? He protected everyone without killing in the ambush, he understood before the duel began he had to give his life up so his son and crew could survive.

You already admitted to literally not understanding the story in all of your replies, what makes you think you can call anything poor?

@Daniel_Naumov Thorfinn didn't even know his dad's background? He got killed on his way to the battlefield in his perspective? And Thorfinn like everyone else believed in the code of Vikings, he grew up with kids and teens who wanted to kill and die in war. Thors never achieved to teach his son his own ways.

Edit: Actually I'm not sure how much Thorfinn knew about his dad's deserting. Either way due to how the story progressed it doesn't make sense to say Thorfinn shouldn't want to avenge him

@ChainxBastard lmao
Modified by Esquirtit, Aug 16, 6:24 AM
 
Aug 16, 6:56 AM

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Well, this kids fighting got deadly really quick. I like his character progression but it feels like we skipped over a lot of interesting points.
 
Aug 16, 7:55 AM

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@Esquirtit ready to get back on the battlefield lmao.
To do what exactly? What use has a warrior who does not kill on a battlefield? He was about to betray the Vikings once again
And anyway the very fact that he refused to kill is opponent in a duel was already a betrayal of everything the Vikings believed in. And don't even try to say, "he was trying to take the safest route for his son to survive" because that's straight up bullshit. The reason he refused to kill was because of his morals and that's as clear as day.
And protecting everyone without killing isn't an honor in the Vikings society.
Stop projecting your goddamn moral in another society, goddammit
 
Aug 16, 8:14 AM
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Esquirtit said:


@Daniel_Naumov Thorfinn didn't even know his dad's background? He got killed on his way to the battlefield in his perspective? And Thorfinn like everyone else believed in the code of Vikings, he grew up with kids and teens who wanted to kill and die in war. Thors never achieved to teach his son his own ways.

Edit: Actually I'm not sure how much Thorfinn knew about his dad's deserting. Either way due to how the story progressed it doesn't make sense to say Thorfinn shouldn't want to avenge him


Nonono I never said that, besides Thors attempted to talk some sense into Thorfinn from time to time. For example, the last one was when he told him there are no enemies in the world. From Thorfinn's viewpoint his father was a great man and unjust, cowardly execution he got, in Thorfinn's eyes, is deserving of avenging. But Thorfinn does not know everything there is, and to other vikings who accustomed to Thors' past, Thors is (mostly, Askeladd is not a dirty viking dog, noble blood runs in his veins) a pathetic traitor and unworthy of being a viking, and, thus, living.
There is no reason for Thorfinn to avenge Thors, but Thorfinn is just a stupid kid and his father meant the world to him. I am not anyhow questioning one stupid brat trying to take revenge for his father. It's 1000 A.D. chances are 99% people were uncultured imbeciles. What I was trying to say previously is that, if we consider this a historic work, based on realistic context of that time (which is highly contestable seeing how Thors throws people around with slaps and Thorfinn surviving 10 soldiers and a hunger), Thors got what was coming for him, for refusing vikings basic philosophy and being too enlightened for his time. Motivations and behaviour of people make perfect sense so far. The portrayal of combat and survival... meh. But the former is enough for me to keep staying hopeful for this series.
RealMTL said:
Well, this kids fighting got deadly really quick. I like his character progression but it feels like we skipped over a lot of interesting points.

Like, forgive me for paying attention to discussions on this forum, what??
Re:formed
 
Aug 16, 8:30 AM

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And...the perfection continues!

We get to see the struggle Thorfinn face with the vikings. It was both exciting and heartbreaking to watch.

I actually shouted at Thorfinn's fight in the winter woods. Fucking glorious.
Thorfinn looks really cute when the old lady brushed his hair. She is one hell of a good person, still trying to hide Thorfinn even if she knows his true identity.

My boi Thorfinn reminds his past and family. But realizes he have to move on and have no time to feel emphaty in the path he's walking now.

 
Aug 16, 8:51 AM

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vhagar8 said:
@Esquirtit ready to get back on the battlefield lmao.
To do what exactly? What use has a warrior who does not kill on a battlefield? He was about to betray the Vikings once again
And anyway the very fact that he refused to kill is opponent in a duel was already a betrayal of everything the Vikings believed in. And don't even try to say, "he was trying to take the safest route for his son to survive" because that's straight up bullshit. The reason he refused to kill was because of his morals and that's as clear as day.
And protecting everyone without killing isn't an honor in the Vikings society.
Stop projecting your goddamn moral in another society, goddammit
1. he doesn't need to kill his opponent, he's strong enough to defeat everyone without killing one vs one.
2.even if he killed askeladd everyone would have attack thors and the others to avenge him,with archers too,and thorfinn would have been killed since he can't protect everyone while he fights,he's not an idiot.
3.he accepted to go back on the batttlefield because if he didn't go the jomsvikings would attack the village for his desertion.
4.he knew from the start that that was all a set up to kill him for desertion.
5.askeladd respects him to the point he asked him to become the boss of his band and take thorfinn with him.
So he isn't a coward by any means,actually is the opposite he is a brave,intelligent and strong willed person,Floki is a coward,thors is a real warrior that respects and protects life without discrimination to anyone,he protects the life of his beloved ones without taking the life of others,even if that means to die to protect his family and his conpanions,you can think thats stupid but he isn't a coward,he is a coward from the perspective of a dumb viking,and that lead to his death because with that ideology in a viking era is almost impossible to live.
Protect the one that you love is the true battlefield and what it means to be a real warrior,and he doesn't kill the others because he respects everybody life,war and massacre doesn't have sense and don't lead to anything only death and destruction,he was sick of that and found a better life.
Thorfinn clearly doesn't know about his desertion,and don't understand what thors mean with "real warrior needs no sword""you have no enemies at all" and his beliefs,but he has still viking beliefs because he lived in that ambient,he his still a child he see his father as a hero that protected everybody in a duel and wants to kill askeladd in a duel because he killed thors dishonorably breaking his promise to him,he didn't kill askeladd in his sleep for that motive,he is stupid and a idiot for that,yes he his a damn brat,he should have returned to his family but his rage and vengeance for askeladd took the lead,he'll regret that for life.
So you clearly don't understand what this series wants to tell.
Modified by nanashi796, Aug 16, 9:11 AM
 
Aug 16, 10:51 AM

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@vhagar8 What the fuck?Obviously if he was going to join back the Jomsviking he was was going to kill people. That's why he wasn't going to take Thorfinn and the rest of the crew with him

You do not make any sense, Thors understood that Askeladd and his gang were only after him and paid by Floki. He fought a duel with the promise to let his son and crew escape safely, he sensed he could trust Askeladd with that and that's why he didn't kill him. Killing the leader would get ALL of them killed.

Killing the other pawns was because of his morals that's true, but I don't see how that has anything to do with what you're saying. At that time he didn't realize they were paid to assassinate him, just to enslave them and take their goods, he didn't think it was worth killing each other.

Why would his son hate him for that when he literally sacrificed his own life to save them anyway. This isn't hard to understand.

Where did I project my own morals my dude? Everything from ep1 to ep6 went over your head. You accused the story of not properly conveying stuff that has been said explicitly and keep insisting it's bad writing and poorly delivered. Go rematch the episodes or something

@Daniel_Naumov Ah I get you now reading all of it again. I interpreted it wrong because you said you agreed with vhagar8 who said something else entirely.

About the action, that's how action/manga like this portray the "big names". Thors slapping and punching people with swords was a bit too much to me as well, but doesn't take away from the story at all. It's part of what makes it an epic anime/manga. I don't agree that it makes it unworthy of being "historical" that just seems like looking down it for one aspect you don't like.
 
Aug 16, 11:02 AM

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Damn this was a heart cruching episode. I hope to see more of that girl, i fear she might be kidnapped by the vikings tho. Excited to see where it goes
 
Aug 16, 11:24 AM

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nanashi796 said:
vhagar8 said:
@Esquirtit ready to get back on the battlefield lmao.
To do what exactly? What use has a warrior who does not kill on a battlefield? He was about to betray the Vikings once again
And anyway the very fact that he refused to kill is opponent in a duel was already a betrayal of everything the Vikings believed in. And don't even try to say, "he was trying to take the safest route for his son to survive" because that's straight up bullshit. The reason he refused to kill was because of his morals and that's as clear as day.
And protecting everyone without killing isn't an honor in the Vikings society.
Stop projecting your goddamn moral in another society, goddammit
1. he doesn't need to kill his opponent, he's strong enough to defeat everyone without killing one vs one.
2.even if he killed askeladd everyone would have attack thors and the others to avenge him,with archers too,and thorfinn would have been killed since he can't protect everyone while he fights,he's not an idiot.
3.he accepted to go back on the batttlefield because if he didn't go the jomsvikings would attack the village for his desertion.
4.he knew from the start that that was all a set up to kill him for desertion.
5.askeladd respects him to the point he asked him to become the boss of his band and take thorfinn with him.
So he isn't a coward by any means,actually is the opposite he is a brave,intelligent and strong willed person,Floki is a coward,thors is a real warrior that respects and protects life without discrimination to anyone,he protects the life of his beloved ones without taking the life of others,even if that means to die to protect his family and his conpanions,you can think thats stupid but he isn't a coward,he is a coward from the perspective of a dumb viking,and that lead to his death because with that ideology in a viking era is almost impossible to live.
Protect the one that you love is the true battlefield and what it means to be a real warrior,and he doesn't kill the others because he respects everybody life,war and massacre doesn't have sense and don't lead to anything only death and destruction,he was sick of that and found a better life.
Thorfinn clearly doesn't know about his desertion,and don't understand what thors mean with "real warrior needs no sword""you have no enemies at all" and his beliefs,but he has still viking beliefs because he lived in that ambient,he his still a child he see his father as a hero that protected everybody in a duel and wants to kill askeladd in a duel because he killed thors dishonorably breaking his promise to him,he didn't kill askeladd in his sleep for that motive,he is stupid and a idiot for that,yes he his a damn brat,he should have returned to his family but his rage and vengeance for askeladd took the lead,he'll regret that for life.
So you clearly don't understand what this series wants to tell.

1-I don't give a shit how strong he is, sparing the life of your opponent on the battlefield is stupid. Let's even say thors was strong enough to overwhelm em all, as long as he left them alive they might seek for revenge, raiding the village where he lived for example. And it's not about not needing to kill, but being afraid to kill.
2-thorfinn could hide with a shield on his head behind the goods, while thors attacked the other ship, he himself said he could defeat em alone, by killing the commander he'd also break their ranks, and the archers from that distance during a close combat fight where most of the people involved are commanders would be more harm then good. Would that guarantee his son survival? Of course not but it's a way better plan than entrusting the life of his son to a shady looking pirate who just broke a promise in front of him
3him
3-I know that, how's that relevant?
4- I know that, how's that relevant?
5-he got no means to establish whenever that was true or not, based on the situation, it's would be more reasonable to assume he was making fun of him.
I don't give a shit if YOU think thors is a coward or a hero, you're not there, who's there are the people who live in that period, and by they're standard he's a coward.
And why thorfinn wants to kill him in a duel? What moral is this 6 year old kid abading by? Where does this sense of honor come from? It's not the viking honor and another sense of honor was never introduced in the story. I really don't see why thorfinn would care more about this questionable sense of honor than actual revenge
 
Aug 16, 12:09 PM

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Esquirtit said:
@vhagar8 What the fuck?Obviously if he was going to join back the Jomsviking he was was going to kill people. That's why he wasn't going to take Thorfinn and the rest of the crew with him

You do not make any sense, Thors understood that Askeladd and his gang were only after him and paid by Floki. He fought a duel with the promise to let his son and crew escape safely, he sensed he could trust Askeladd with that and that's why he didn't kill him. Killing the leader would get ALL of them killed.

Killing the other pawns was because of his morals that's true, but I don't see how that has anything to do with what you're saying. At that time he didn't realize they were paid to assassinate him, just to enslave them and take their goods, he didn't think it was worth killing each other.

Why would his son hate him for that when he literally sacrificed his own life to save them anyway. This isn't hard to understand.

Where did I project my own morals my dude? Everything from ep1 to ep6 went over your head. You accused the story of not properly conveying stuff that has been said explicitly and keep insisting it's bad writing and poorly delivered. Go rematch the episodes or something

If your comprehension skills are this low, having a conversation might be a problem. No shit u think what I said makes not sense.
I'll go back to the conversation slowly, make an effort to keep focus. I was saying thors was a coward by Vikings standard, u @ me applying the 21th century definition of coward to thors and disagreeing, I explained u that ur using a definition of cowardly and bravery that doesn't fit the time period the story is settled in (that's what projecting your moral mean if the words were too difficult to understand)
And this is your reply?
"Why would his son hate him for that when he literally sacrificed his own life to save them anyway"
I said his son would hate him if he was abiding by Vikings' sense of honor. And my point was that he's in fact not abiding .
And the fuck? I didn't see the superpower tag on this anime? So thors could "sense" that that shady-looking pirate would keep his promise. And his belief in his supernatural sensing ability was so strong he's willing to bet his son's life on it?
I explained a more reasonable route for his son to make it out alive in my other comment point #2
He wasn't taking the safest route but the one where he had to kill no people, that's by no mean an honorable way of behavior for a viking. That's all.
Thors not being an honorable viking wasn't even my point but just a mean to criticize thorfinn's characterization by I guess that went under your skin as well.
And btw thors going to the war to die there, rather than to kill the enemy seems a way more believable decision for his character to make. That way he'd be the only one paying for his actions (deserting) and his family would be left alone, but he wouldn't have to reject his morals. But I have to admit I can't know this for sure
 
Aug 16, 12:22 PM

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vhagar8 said:
nanashi796 said:
1. he doesn't need to kill his opponent, he's strong enough to defeat everyone without killing one vs one.
2.even if he killed askeladd everyone would have attack thors and the others to avenge him,with archers too,and thorfinn would have been killed since he can't protect everyone while he fights,he's not an idiot.
3.he accepted to go back on the batttlefield because if he didn't go the jomsvikings would attack the village for his desertion.
4.he knew from the start that that was all a set up to kill him for desertion.
5.askeladd respects him to the point he asked him to become the boss of his band and take thorfinn with him.
So he isn't a coward by any means,actually is the opposite he is a brave,intelligent and strong willed person,Floki is a coward,thors is a real warrior that respects and protects life without discrimination to anyone,he protects the life of his beloved ones without taking the life of others,even if that means to die to protect his family and his conpanions,you can think thats stupid but he isn't a coward,he is a coward from the perspective of a dumb viking,and that lead to his death because with that ideology in a viking era is almost impossible to live.
Protect the one that you love is the true battlefield and what it means to be a real warrior,and he doesn't kill the others because he respects everybody life,war and massacre doesn't have sense and don't lead to anything only death and destruction,he was sick of that and found a better life.
Thorfinn clearly doesn't know about his desertion,and don't understand what thors mean with "real warrior needs no sword""you have no enemies at all" and his beliefs,but he has still viking beliefs because he lived in that ambient,he his still a child he see his father as a hero that protected everybody in a duel and wants to kill askeladd in a duel because he killed thors dishonorably breaking his promise to him,he didn't kill askeladd in his sleep for that motive,he is stupid and a idiot for that,yes he his a damn brat,he should have returned to his family but his rage and vengeance for askeladd took the lead,he'll regret that for life.
So you clearly don't understand what this series wants to tell.

1-I don't give a shit how strong he is, sparing the life of your opponent on the battlefield is stupid. Let's even say thors was strong enough to overwhelm em all, as long as he left them alive they might seek for revenge, raiding the village where he lived for example. And it's not about not needing to kill, but being afraid to kill.
2-thorfinn could hide with a shield on his head behind the goods, while thors attacked the other ship, he himself said he could defeat em alone, by killing the commander he'd also break their ranks, and the archers from that distance during a close combat fight where most of the people involved are commanders would be more harm then good. Would that guarantee his son survival? Of course not but it's a way better plan than entrusting the life of his son to a shady looking pirate who just broke a promise in front of him
3him
3-I know that, how's that relevant?
4- I know that, how's that relevant?
5-he got no means to establish whenever that was true or not, based on the situation, it's would be more reasonable to assume he was making fun of him.
I don't give a shit if YOU think thors is a coward or a hero, you're not there, who's there are the people who live in that period, and by they're standard he's a coward.
And why thorfinn wants to kill him in a duel? What moral is this 6 year old kid abading by? Where does this sense of honor come from? It's not the viking honor and another sense of honor was never introduced in the story. I really don't see why thorfinn would care more about this questionable sense of honor than actual revenge

1.for you is stupid for him no,he values the life of others,killing for protecting the one you love is discrimination, that is one of the fucking message of the manga.
2.lol a shield,he could defeat them alone but he can't protect the others from all the fucking people when he fights,him fighting askeladd was the best option he had,he know he can trust askeladd since he his a man of honor.
3 and 4 that shows that he's not a fucking coward
5.its cleary as day that askeladd was serious when he asked him to join.
i fucking said that in the comment,dumb viking see him as a coward,askeladd isn't a dumb viking, even bjorn respects him.
everybody said why to you 100 times but you are too stupid to understand why he wants to kill him in a duel.


 
Aug 16, 12:32 PM

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nanashi796 said:
vhagar8 said:

1-I don't give a shit how strong he is, sparing the life of your opponent on the battlefield is stupid. Let's even say thors was strong enough to overwhelm em all, as long as he left them alive they might seek for revenge, raiding the village where he lived for example. And it's not about not needing to kill, but being afraid to kill.
2-thorfinn could hide with a shield on his head behind the goods, while thors attacked the other ship, he himself said he could defeat em alone, by killing the commander he'd also break their ranks, and the archers from that distance during a close combat fight where most of the people involved are commanders would be more harm then good. Would that guarantee his son survival? Of course not but it's a way better plan than entrusting the life of his son to a shady looking pirate who just broke a promise in front of him
3him
3-I know that, how's that relevant?
4- I know that, how's that relevant?
5-he got no means to establish whenever that was true or not, based on the situation, it's would be more reasonable to assume he was making fun of him.
I don't give a shit if YOU think thors is a coward or a hero, you're not there, who's there are the people who live in that period, and by they're standard he's a coward.
And why thorfinn wants to kill him in a duel? What moral is this 6 year old kid abading by? Where does this sense of honor come from? It's not the viking honor and another sense of honor was never introduced in the story. I really don't see why thorfinn would care more about this questionable sense of honor than actual revenge

1.for you is stupid for him no,he values the life of others,killing for protecting the one you love is discrimination, that is one of the fucking message of the manga.
2.lol a shield,he could defeat them alone but he can't protect the others from all the fucking people when he fights,him fighting askeladd was the best option he had,he know he can trust askeladd since he his a man of honor. and 4 that shows that he's not a fucking coward
5.its cleary as day that askeladd was serious when he asked him to join.
i fucking said that in the comment,dumb viking see him as a coward,askeladd isn't a dumb viking, even bjorn respects him.
everybody said why to you 100 times but you are too stupid to understand why he wants to kill him in a duel.



1-not killing other for protecting the ones u love means not valuing the life of the ones u love. But we're getting a little off-track here, my initial purpose wasn't to question the manga message
2-how the fuck is he supposed to know that? He literally broke part of his promise before his eyes, what tells him he'd keep the other part if he accepted to die
3 & 4 I'm tired to explain why he's a coward and that people should stop projecting their values on other societies
Lmao "dumb viking" basically means "actual viking" in your book.
 
Aug 16, 12:52 PM

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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 172
vhagar8 said:
nanashi796 said:

1.for you is stupid for him no,he values the life of others,killing for protecting the one you love is discrimination, that is one of the fucking message of the manga.
2.lol a shield,he could defeat them alone but he can't protect the others from all the fucking people when he fights,him fighting askeladd was the best option he had,he know he can trust askeladd since he his a man of honor. and 4 that shows that he's not a fucking coward
5.its cleary as day that askeladd was serious when he asked him to join.
i fucking said that in the comment,dumb viking see him as a coward,askeladd isn't a dumb viking, even bjorn respects him.
everybody said why to you 100 times but you are too stupid to understand why he wants to kill him in a duel.



1-not killing other for protecting the ones u love means not valuing the life of the ones u love. But we're getting a little off-track here, my initial purpose wasn't to question the manga message
2-how the fuck is he supposed to know that? He literally broke part of his promise before his eyes, what tells him he'd keep the other part if he accepted to die
3 & 4 I'm tired to explain why he's a coward and that people should stop projecting their values on other societies
Lmao "dumb viking" basically means "actual viking" in your book.
his promise was to save the others,askeladd respected the promise he even said to ari when he attacked him to not waste his life because thors was a greater man then all of them combined,and he didn't kill anyone,honor to vikings is the most important thing,and btw when bjorn took thorfinn as hostage askeladd was sad and disappointed,he din't want to do it,he wanted to respect his promise.,that shows that he really respected thors.

3-4 that vikings see him as a coward because he deserted it's true but that's not the point,that shows that he isn't a coward because he's protecting his family and village,knowing that means to be killed for desertion,he was never a coward, and btw the only one that is projecting his values on this manga is you,that think this manga has poor characterization because you think differently of the characters values.
Modified by nanashi796, Aug 16, 1:26 PM
 
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