| I'm already not excited about the isekai anime this season, and I'm usually quite a fan of isekai stuff since I like fantasy settings. But between Arifureta's horrendous directing, Maou-sama getting worse each week and Cheat Magician just being mediocre in every regard (and still probably the best isekai of the season) this is not a strong showing for the 'genre' this season. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I think it's a fun genre. Only exist a very few Isekai shows that I didn't like. Conception woud be one of the worse Isekai shows I have seen. I woud say that's just a huge waste of money and time making something like that. And I do look forward to next Isekai that is coming, beacuse I think it's fun. As long as it's fun I will not complain. And I woud say that Isekai is not the "genre" that is bad atm. It coming out alot of shows that is way worse then what Isekai is. |
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| I'm more sick of these threads than I am of the isekai genre. If they keep it original in some way or another (Being a slime, being the 'bad guy') It's fine to me. |
| I'm not a huge fan of isekai at least in its fantasy-based incarnation since I'd generally prefer fantasy by itself without the isekai element. But I'll still be willing to watch it if there's something else about it that interests me, so by itself it isn't a dealbreaker. I don't keep up with airing shows, so I don't have an opinion on most of the recent isekai series. I do happen to be watching one right now...but it's the 2011 series Dog Days. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
HopefulNihilist said: Absolute Duo would like to have a word with you. :PAlso, he fights with a shield. Now that's original. (Well it's not isekai, but yeah.) |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| What the haters don't want to admit: IT'S POPULAR BECAUSE IT'S GOOD. More people like them than not. Therefore, there is a demand for them. And as long as they're in demand, authors will keep writing them and animators will keep animating them. The haters are just wanna be hippie losers that think it's cool to bash something that everyone else likes. Just because they're the loudest voices, doesn't make them right. If the majority of viewers enjoy them, then by consensus, they must be objectively good. --- The people who don't read novels don't truly understand how amazing this genre is. There are some really amazing isekai novels out there that are not (yet) animated. Then also, unfortunately, not all isekai anime do their novels justice. --- What makes the genre so amazing is that the premise gives the author the freedom to write whatever they can dream of without being constrained to the common sense, logic, and laws of this world. It is literally a genre where anything goes and creativity has no limit. Authors are free to write the most fantastical and amazing stories without reservation. --- I'm totally hyped up for Watashi, Nouryoku wa Heikinchi de tte Itta yo ne!. I've read and enjoyed the novels. FUNA is an amazing author. I urge everyone to check this one out. Going by the novel, it has the potential to be one of the greatest isekai anime of all time. --- |
NyaaJul 26, 2019 8:28 AM
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Thanjh said: Isekai is a new genre It's not. They are just constantly appeared for the past few years. Isekai on the paper is fine, to me like any other type of story what matters is the content not the label itself. The main problem that most people complaining for the recent isekai series is that they are too many repetition on the same element such as OP protagonist, Harem, JRPG-like town, lazy action scene and the lack of worldbuilding . Probably the latter problem caused by the length of the series which is why some people think older series like Digimon, Escaflowne and Inuyasha are better because they are longer and so much to drag the viewers into its world (and they has very different and unique type of world also). For the recent series. I can think of two series with isekai genre that I think is uncommon. Firstly Konosuba's which I quite liked because it never delving too much on the isekai/jrpg world and just use them to enhance the comedy and giving different experience. And I'm not the a fan of Re:Zero but at least there's many element of it that makes it different from usual modern isekai anime. |
DannyTheDonkeyJul 26, 2019 8:44 AM
| I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. |
Thanjh said: Isekai is a new genre and it's here to stay. Like any other genre, if you don't like it then don't watch it. All I see on forums are people needlessly complaining about isekai. It's not new by any stretch of the imagination, and calling it a genre is already problematic. It's more like a narrative technique. The genre is usually just fantasy. That's why I like isekai shows, cause I'm a fantasy fan. But strictly speaking isekai doesn't have to mean fantasy, that's just how it alway spalys out so far. But the basic concept of traveling to another world in some way isn't a genre, it's just one trope. Nyaa said: ------------ 3 ------------ What makes the genre so amazing is that the premise gives the author the freedom to write whatever they can dream of without being constrained to the common sense, logic, and laws of this world. It is literally a genre where anything goes and creativity has no limit. Authors are free to write the most fantastical and amazing stories without reservation. My friend, you are talking about the fantasy genre. You don't need isekai for anything you said, it works just as well if your characters were always in a fantasy world where you can write whatever you want. That's why many people mislabeled something like Goblin Slayer as isekai, because they're all part of the same fantasy genre and how they got to that fantasy world is only a minor detail. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Creators are just taking bits of everything that is available in a typical rpg game but not elaborate enough hence it comes out as shallow or superficial. But hey, as long as the mc knows how to make a decision. As for shield hero anime, I felt that the OP song was underwhelming. ED song was fine it reminds me of wolf and spices. |
| Firstly, Isekai isn’t really a genre; it’s a fantasy show with a nice twist that makes it seem a bit more interesting than your average fantasy anime. Also, I can’t really help but think they they’re not really taking advantage of the whole trapped in another world idea, like if you take out the first 10 minutes from most Isekai anime, they basically are just fantasy shows. They only add in the Isekai part just for the sake of making it more marketable I suppose. |
| To judge others by your own standard is the height of folly. |
| IMO, most isekai don't even deserve the tag. To me it's only isekai if the fact that the character(s) came from another world is interesting or relevant. 90% of the time it's not and that fact is soon forgotten. |
| supreme master of the godtaste |
| we need more creativity, for example: how about the main character get transported in doom world, or to an alien planet or even more extreme why not an isekai about someone getting transported into the quantom world. the posibilities are endless. |
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| Isekai as a genre has a lot of potential but they always use that same cliche european setting. |
 "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost." |
Pullman said: It's not new by any stretch of the imagination, and calling it a genre is already problematic. It's more like a narrative technique. The genre is usually just fantasy. -Frost- said: The term "isekai" these days refers to (for better or worse) a rather well-defined set of traits, so it essentially has become a genre label. And the concept of "genre" is actually a rather vague thing itself; I usually separate genre labels into story types (e.g. action, adventure, comedy, drama, iyashikei, slice-of-life, etc.) and setting types (RPG fantasy, space sci-fi, present-day, etc.)Firstly, Isekai isn’t really a genre; it’s a fantasy show with a nice twist that makes it seem a bit more interesting than your average fantasy anime. That said, the core concept of isekai is essentially just "person gets taken to another world", which is a concept that is far older than even anime itself. Nyaa said: But an author could do even more by just making it straight-up fantasy...What makes [isekai] so amazing is that the premise gives the author the freedom to write whatever they can dream of without being constrained to the common sense, logic, and laws of this world. It is literally a genre where anything goes and creativity has no limit. Authors are free to write the most fantastical and amazing stories without reservation. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Tbh. This season isekai series is trash. Arifureta's shit directing and the MILF isekai nonsensical fanservice on the mother on eps 2. And the other two isekai that's mind as well be considered DOA. Anyways, isekai can be good if it has good execution. So far the one I've seen are either Okay (Isekai Maou), Starts off good but boring after awhile (Slime) and just boring af (Shield Hero). But that's just modern ones I mentioned. I'm aware that there are some older isekai series. Ill get around to them eventually. |
AlphaN00b said: we need more creativity, for example: how about the main character get transported in doom world, or to an alien planet or even more extreme why not an isekai about someone getting transported into the quantom world. the posibilities are endless. Yeah, if it is gonna be other world, then the writers should expand their imagination instead of just using same european middle age setting over and over. |
"All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost." |
| I liked it better when they were few and far between. I have no problem with them,but most of the recent ones are pretty much the same. It's gotten to the point where I'll only watch one if it at least tries to mix it up a little. It would be great if there were more like Youjo Senki or No Game No Life, where the worlds didn't work off rpg mechanics. |
HopefulNihilist said: And both are sorta moot points when it comes to personal enjoyment anyway.Nyaa said: Popularity =/= quality.What the haters don't want to admit: IT'S POPULAR BECAUSE IT'S GOOD. HopefulNihilist said: Here's a list of criticisms I've heard; please correct me or add to the list if I'm wrong about or missing anything:Nyaa said: Then I don't think you're actually taking the time to listen to peoples' criticism of isekai; it goes beyond more than just blind hate.The haters are just wanna be hippie losers that think it's cool to bash something that everyone else likes. Just because they're the loudest voices, doesn't make them right. * They are "generic". * They repeatedly use a fantasy RPG world as its other-world, and thus gets boring after one watches more of them. * They frequently have harem elements. * Between the harem elements and the fantasy RPG world, the concept seems like something made for a stereotypical teenage boy's wish-fulfillment when we look at it from an out-of-universe perspective. Basically this feels like it can be summed up into two major lines of criticism: 1. They are too frequent and/or insufficiently distinctive (which is not the fault of any single show, incidentally, but has more to do with audiences reacting to seeing a bunch of them in quick succession). 2. They are reaching people who are not their core audience. HopefulNihilist said: There's no applicable answer to what makes something "objectively good", because there isn't a true answer to the question; the evaluation can be objective but the choice of criteria is still subjective.Nyaa said: Do you have a source that explains what makes something objectively good? Whenever I asked this question on Youtube comments sections to people with similar opinions as yours, I was met with insults.If the majority of viewers enjoy them, then by consensus, they must be objectively good. HopefulNihilist said: While you can use the time taken to write it as a proxy for greatness, that alone doesn't determine it. Also how do you define "actual, real novels"? Where do you draw the line?Nyaa said: Light novels by design are amateurish; actual, real novels take years to write. Light novels are written within a week or a month. There are some really amazing isekai novels out there that are not (yet) animated. shadowblaster5 said: Agreed.I prefer typical fantasy over isekai. I don't see why the MC has to be transported to another world. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Pullman said: It's not new by any stretch of the imagination, and calling it a genre is already problematic. It's more like a narrative technique. The genre is usually just fantasy. -Frost- said: The term "isekai" these days refers to (for better or worse) a rather well-defined set of traits, so it essentially has become a genre label. And the concept of "genre" is actually a rather vague thing itself; I usually separate genre labels into story types (e.g. action, adventure, comedy, drama, iyashikei, slice-of-life, etc.) and setting types (RPG fantasy, space sci-fi, present-day, etc.)Firstly, Isekai isn’t really a genre; it’s a fantasy show with a nice twist that makes it seem a bit more interesting than your average fantasy anime. That said, the core concept of isekai is essentially just "person gets taken to another world", which is a concept that is far older than even anime itself. First of all I don't think there is one set of traits for isekai, except that it includes the name-giving trope of being transported or reincarnated in another world. Is there really anything beyond that and the fantasy setting that shows like KonoSuba, Grimgar or Isekai Restaurant have in common? From where I'm standing even the shows that do have things in common, pretty much just have all the fantasy tropes in common. Hence why I simply see isekai as a specific method of getting to the fantasy genre. Except the 'transporter/reincarnated to another world' trope, there is not a single trait I can think of that is specifically linked to isekai, that specifically defines isekai. It's literally just a minor variation on classic fantasy from where I'm standing, and I've seen the majority of isekai titles, both old and recent. Not even the RPG elements are specific to isekai titles, tons of regular fantasy shows have them as well. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Isekai in the past used to have more imagination and variation. Like we had multiple isekai's with female protagonist like Fushigi Yuugi, Inuyasha and .hack SIGN even. We had shounen, we had shoujo. We had vastly different worlds. Nowadays all protagonist are all male otakus, either late teens or young adults. They somehow always end up being overpowered in the world they end up. The old cliche of having to save the world is ofc there still. I'm just getting bit annoyed at this point, there is just no creativity it's just anime studios or more like light novel writers hopping on popular genre. |
| Isekai: catgirls, elves, anything you'd find in a standard and cliche fantasy world, throw in the odd trap. Bam. The same thing all the time. You could call Made in Abyss an isekai, maybe even AOT, but no, apparently the term does not mean another world and that you need your NEET protag to get hit by a truck and then probably get stolen from the second you're there in your little RPG game with the same breeds of characters, smh. Man, I sure wanna commit isekai. Isekai's just generic. |
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thevagus said: AlphaN00b said: we need more creativity, for example: how about the main character get transported in doom world, or to an alien planet or even more extreme why not an isekai about someone getting transported into the quantom world. the posibilities are endless. Yeah, if it is gonna be other world, then the writers should expand their imagination instead of just using same european middle age setting over and over. you know what? imma write every setting that comes to mind right now just so there is no excuse for using the same setting over and over again: -doom world where the protagonist fight demons to escape hell. -cyberpunk 2077, the protagonist is transported to the future. -a water world survival like subnotica with a spice of intelegent life forms. -a world where the tempurature is +200 at day and -200 at night. there is an acual earthlike planet like that. -terminator isekai. -a world of humanoid ants. -a world where other species evolved to be as smart as humans and are now in war with them. -an artificial planet where everything is robots. -horizon zero dawn isekai. and well, it took me around 10 mins to think of these, are isekai writers really uncapable of thinking out something interesting. heck one piece alone have more creativity in it's world more than all the isekai we have combined. |
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Pullman said: GlennMagusHarvey said: The term "isekai" these days refers to (for better or worse) a rather well-defined set of traits, so it essentially has become a genre label. And the concept of "genre" is actually a rather vague thing itself; I usually separate genre labels into story types (e.g. action, adventure, comedy, drama, iyashikei, slice-of-life, etc.) and setting types (RPG fantasy, space sci-fi, present-day, etc.) That said, the core concept of isekai is essentially just "person gets taken to another world", which is a concept that is far older than even anime itself. First of all I don't think there is one set of traits for isekai, except that it includes the name-giving trope of being transported or reincarnated in another world. Is there really anything beyond that and the fantasy setting that shows like KonoSuba, Grimgar or Isekai Restaurant have in common? From where I'm standing even the shows that do have things in common, pretty much just have all the fantasy tropes in common. Hence why I simply see isekai as a specific method of getting to the fantasy genre. Except the 'transporter/reincarnated to another world' trope, there is not a single trait I can think of that is specifically linked to isekai, that specifically defines isekai. It's literally just a minor variation on classic fantasy from where I'm standing, and I've seen the majority of isekai titles, both old and recent. Not even the RPG elements are specific to isekai titles, tons of regular fantasy shows have them as well. Yep, I 100% agree. Thanks for saying it for me. |
| To judge others by your own standard is the height of folly. |
| I quite like the concept of the MC finding themselves in a completely different world, trying their best to survive while exploring a place that most probably has a vastly different culture, values and mindset of people compared to the mostly safe and cozy environment they grew up in. That's something which older isekai series like Juuni Kokuki portrayed well. But coming to the newer ones, they are all pretty much the same, to add to it the MC receives some kind of cheat abilities and despite being an otaku and/or a shut-in in Japan, all of a sudden becomes some sort of a all-knowledgeable overpowered hero in the other world. Newer ones simply show the advantages of coming from a modern society but hardly ever consider the hardships that the MC would face for not knowing the culture or mindset of the people that live in what resembles medieval times, somehow gaming experience just helps him out, not to mention all the gaming interfaces popping up all the time and each one of them using the exact same fantasy setting. I haven't tried out any isekai this season so far but from the looks of it they don't seem anything special. Re:Zero was the last one that got my interest among the newer ones. Now when I see isekai adaptations being announced I simply think - 'No, not again!' but I'm still willing to give it a shot hoping that it turns out to be something different, maybe like the older titles that I enjoyed. |
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| I generally like many anime of the isekai genre. A fantasy setting beats a school setting anyday imo. Isekai anime usually involve traveling. |
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| I've found that I tend to like Isekai stuff somewhat. I wouldn't consider myself a huge fan, but I'm generally more apt to picking up these series than avoiding them and I'd say I've had pretty good experiences with the majority I've seen. Think the hatedom for Isekai is one of the most obnoxious in the whole fandom, though, regardless of my personal opinions of these types of series. The common criticisms kind of paint a picture of simply perceiving it as a trend and then griping about it in any way possible because it's a trend and you want to cement your individuality by being anti-trend - which isn't sheepish, and is a totally individual-oriented behavior, I promise :> - rather than being anything that's thought about for more than, Iunno, 2 seconds, or if you've seen a couple and put more thought into each series than OH IT'S AN ISEKAI IN A FANTASY RPG WORLD HOW GENERIC LUL. I'm not saying they can't be criticized without that being the case, or even why that's the only reason that people dislike them in of itself, mind you, but I dislike the common criticisms immensely and it does very often rub me as being like so. The fact that it's very often brought up as a trend for "horny teenagers" or "neet otaku" first and foremost, and then all of the dumb attempts at explaining their generalization seem to be secondary, doesn't help change that perception that I have. If you want to hate something because you don't like what you feel is the target audience, at least be direct about as much and don't rely on limp-dicked, thoughtless justifications that you know other bobbleheads will give you a fist pump for. Pullman already brought that point up and shared a couple of examples, and I'm pretty much in full agreement with that. How is the tone of Smartphone, a pretty laid back and lighthearted adventure series, at all comparable to the tone of Re:Zero, that very much tries to maintain a serious, dramatic and dark image. How is the structure of Death March comparable to the structure of Log Horizon, whenever one prioritizes showing the characters getting along and having a good time together in their semi-episodic travels for the majority of its runtime, while the latter has a grand overarching narrative involving navigating the politics and economy of the world they've found themselves in and understanding how things ended up like this in the first place, spiced with bits of character drama in-between. So on and so forth, there are too many contradictory elements within isekai series that I've seen whenever I'm holding them up against one another for me to buy into the idea that they're indistinct, and it isn't like they require deep thought or high-end critical assessment skills to figure as much out, often times it's shit anybody could do if they simply paid attention more than a goldfish would be able to. It certainly doesn't help that I've tried bringing up numbers regarding the amount of isekai releases relevant to total amount of series released; if memory serves correct, it was less than 1% and certainly not more than 2% for this decade alone, where it's been the most prominent by a wide margin and almost doubled the number of isekai series in total. And that's nothing compared to some other types of anime that can be vaguely attributed similar qualities based on superficial assessments, like CGDCT. Stuff like that just so happens to go against the over-saturation narrative, though, and that'll be conveniently ignored by the thread for whatever reason, like it's being stepped around moreso than anything. It feels like that consensus is being maintained on blatantly faulty narratives, knee-jerk reactions and selective ignorance at this point, and I hate that it feels like people actually buy into it without thinking on it very much. |
ManabanJul 26, 2019 11:07 AM
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Pullman said: I'm not that familiar with the three shows you just named, but by my understanding, you say "isekai" these days and people will think the following traits:GlennMagusHarvey said: The term "isekai" these days refers to (for better or worse) a rather well-defined set of traits, so it essentially has become a genre label. And the concept of "genre" is actually a rather vague thing itself; I usually separate genre labels into story types (e.g. action, adventure, comedy, drama, iyashikei, slice-of-life, etc.) and setting types (RPG fantasy, space sci-fi, present-day, etc.) That said, the core concept of isekai is essentially just "person gets taken to another world", which is a concept that is far older than even anime itself. First of all I don't think there is one set of traits for isekai, except that it includes the name-giving trope of being transported or reincarnated in another world. Is there really anything beyond that and the fantasy setting that shows like KonoSuba, Grimgar or Isekai Restaurant have in common? * male protag * * "ordinary" high schooler * stuck in some world that's not the real world * * probably a high fantasy world, particularly one with similarities to various video games * probably has a harem of cute anime girls These elements aren't distinctive except the "stuck in some world that's not the real world" bit, but it certainly is a lot more specific than simply "stuck in some world that's not the real world" and nothing else. And it's what leads some people to say that stories like Magic Knight Rayearth "don't count" as isekai, as it's not part of this particular faddish incarnation of this trope. HopefulNihilist said: Do you mean this post: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1794255&show=0#msg58044084 ?GlennMagusHarvey said: Here's a list of criticisms I've heard; please correct me or add to the list if I'm wrong about or missing anything: * They are "generic". * They repeatedly use a fantasy RPG world as its other-world, and thus gets boring after one watches more of them. * They frequently have harem elements. * Between the harem elements and the fantasy RPG world, the concept seems like something made for a stereotypical teenage boy's wish-fulfillment when we look at it from an out-of-universe perspective. Basically this feels like it can be summed up into two major lines of criticism: 1. They are too frequent and/or insufficiently distinctive (which is not the fault of any single show, incidentally, but has more to do with audiences reacting to seeing a bunch of them in quick succession). 2. They are reaching people who are not their core audience. I think those are some of the criticisms I heard of isekai. However, there are criticisms of specific isekai: for example, Re: Zero is criticized for not having stakes, Konosuba's criticized for its repetitive humor. MY criticism of isekai in general is more broad: they're just not very imaginative. Even anime like Re: Zero and Konosuba don't take full advantage of the creative spectrum. I explained in my original post what I meant by this. If so it seems to be a version of "they're insufficiently distinctive". HopefulNihilist said: ...except light novels also require planning and do in fact have "paragraphs of physical descriptions".GlennMagusHarvey said: While you can use the time taken to write it as a proxy for greatness, that alone doesn't determine it. Also how do you define "actual, real novels"? Where do you draw the line? Real novels to me, are novels that have taken years to write, or at least, a long time. Real novels are written in a much more complex way, with paragraphs of physical descriptions, instead of just dialogue. Real novels have characters act more complex. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: ...except light novels also require planning and do in fact have "paragraphs of physical descriptions". You could add that Dickens' A Christmas Carol was written in 6 weeks, A Clockwork Orange was written in three, and The Boy in the Striped Pajamas was written in two and a half days, if you just want to drive the stake in the heart of the idea that novels can only be novels if they take years to write and be done with it. |
ManabanJul 26, 2019 10:31 AM
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| I don't have anything against Isekai. I usually don't watch many shows within that genre because a lot of them just don't seem that interesting to me. I can understand the appeal to it, but it's just not my top choice genre |
| I don't mind Isekai as a genre since it has a lot of potential, but surely it's hard to find a good show within that genre these days. |
  Reach for the Stars☆ |
| @GlennMagusHarvey Not every Isekai protagonist is an ordinary high schooler. Most modern Isekai anime don’t really have female main characters I agree, but there are Isekai manga with female protagonists that are yet to be adapted. Isekai anime that can be considered classics like Inuyasha for example, do indeed have female main characters tho. Yes, I agree with stuck in a fantasy world that’s not the real world part. Not all Isekai anime are harems. Yes a large portion of them are, but there are some that are not. I haven’t watched Log horizon yet, but I’ve heard that it’s not a harem. Yes, but not all Isekai adhere to all these facts. The only one that connects all Isekai anime is the stuck in another world that’s also a fantasy setting part. |
-Frost-Jul 26, 2019 11:01 AM
| To judge others by your own standard is the height of folly. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Pullman said: I'm not that familiar with the three shows you just named, but by my understanding, you say "isekai" these days and people will think the following traits:First of all I don't think there is one set of traits for isekai, except that it includes the name-giving trope of being transported or reincarnated in another world. Is there really anything beyond that and the fantasy setting that shows like KonoSuba, Grimgar or Isekai Restaurant have in common? * male protag * * "ordinary" high schooler * stuck in some world that's not the real world * * probably a high fantasy world, particularly one with similarities to various video games * probably has a harem of cute anime girls These elements aren't distinctive except the "stuck in some world that's not the real world" bit, but it certainly is a lot more specific than simply "stuck in some world that's not the real world" and nothing else. And it's what leads some people to say that stories like Magic Knight Rayearth "don't count" as isekai, as it's not part of this particular faddish incarnation of this trope. But that's the thing, none of those are accurate except that someone is in a fantasy rpg like world. I mean sure, male MCs are a thing most of the time but you can say the same thing about battle shounen and a bunch of other genres. It doesn't get much more vague and meaningless than that in terms of a genre setting itself apart. But they're often not high schoolers, quite frequently they are college students or salaryman or NEETs in their 20s, 30s or even 40s. They definitely don't all have a harem, in fact I'd say most of them don't. Just look at the tags. I don't watch anime tagged as harems, and I watch almost all the isekai titles. They also don't all have action (I know you didn't mention it, but if you think those elements you listed are always part of it you probably also think of all of them as action-based since that's also commonly associated with them.). The three shows I listed contain one psychological drama, one comedic parody and one gourmet slice of life anime. That's just to show how many different types of shows, with different target audiences get grouped together under this rather unhelpful label. And it's just an excerpt. There's thriller-mysteries and moe cutesy ones, political ones, some even have mecha. The anime using the isekai trope are almost as diverse as the medium itself. Your description honestly reminds me more of a previous fad, those magic battle harem anime. Except you added the one actual characteristic that shows under the isekai label have in common, being in a fantasy rpg world. There's plenty of non-isekai fantasy shows that fit your definition better than some of the actual isekai ones. The reason many people seem to think of isekai in the same way you do is, no offense, either ignorance or willful selective perception on their side. It's an idea, a generalization that has become so strong in people's minds that they project it into shows rather than really being derived from any common features among all the shows tagged as isekai. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
HopefulNihilist said: Don't make the protagonist Japanese, maybe make them Indian. Maybe make it so that they have a criminal background. Make it so that they have more to their personality than just being, "a good guy". Don't make the fantasy world Feudal Japan or Medieval based; make it based on ancient Africa or something. . I would totally watch an isekai about an Indian criminal going to an ancient African world cause that sounds wild. I feel like theres an even easier way to give these shows more variety. The thing that confuses the hell out of me is like, not every single video game takes place in a generic medieval fantasy world? So why are there no isekai that use other kinds of traditional video game worlds? I don't understand that at all. |
-Frost- said: The isekai "genre" is a more specific thing than the isekai premise; the stereotypical isekai story includes more than just the isekai premise. Kinda like how not all magical girl shows have cute animal companions, but that is a stereotypical element of the genre.@GlennMagusHarvey Not every Isekai protagonist is an ordinary high schooler. Most modern Isekai anime don’t really have female main characters I agree, but there are Isekai manga with female protagonists that are yet to be adapted. Isekai anime that can be considered classics like Inuyasha for example, do indeed have female main characters tho. Yes, I agree with stuck in a fantasy world that’s not the real world part. Not all Isekai anime are harems. Yes a large portion of them are, but there are some that are not. I haven’t watched Log horizon yet, but I’ve heard that it’s not a harem. Yes, but not all Isekai adhere to all these facts. The only one that connects all Isekai anime is the stuck in another world that’s also a fantasy setting part. "Genre" may not be the right word, but there's certainly a coordinated concept that groups these elements together, whatever one may call it. Pullman said: See my comments above.I mean sure, male MCs are a thing most of the time but you can say the same thing about battle shounen and a bunch of other genres. It doesn't get much more vague and meaningless than that in terms of a genre setting itself apart. But they're often not high schoolers, quite frequently they are college students or salaryman or NEETs in their 20s, 30s or even 40s. They definitely don't all have a harem, in fact I'd say most of them don't. Just look at the tags. I don't watch anime tagged as harems, and I watch almost all the isekai titles. They also don't all have action (I know you didn't mention it, but if you think those elements you listed are always part of it you probably also think of all of them as action-based since that's also commonly associated with them.). Pullman said: Indeed, and many people who don't dig into a given set of shows with a superficial commonality will miss the fact that the shows can tell very different stories.The three shows I listed contain one psychological drama, one comedic parody and one gourmet slice of life anime. That's just to show how many different types of shows, with different target audiences get grouped together under this rather unhelpful label. And it's just an excerpt. There's thriller-mysteries and moe cutesy ones, political ones, some even have mecha. The anime using the isekai trope are almost as diverse as the medium itself. I think the confusion here lies in the fact that, like I was mentioning, there's a distinction between "isekai" as a premise and "isekai" as a set of expectations. Pullman said: I don't actually agree with this thinking; I'm simply describing it.The reason many people seem to think of isekai in the same way you do is, no offense, either ignorance or willful selective perception on their side. It's an idea, a generalization that has become so strong in people's minds that they project it into shows rather than really being derived from any common features among all the shows tagged as isekai. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: -Frost- said: The isekai "genre" is a more specific thing than the isekai premise; the stereotypical isekai story includes more than just the isekai premise. Kinda like how not all magical girl shows have cute animal companions, but that is a stereotypical element of the genre.@GlennMagusHarvey Not every Isekai protagonist is an ordinary high schooler. Most modern Isekai anime don’t really have female main characters I agree, but there are Isekai manga with female protagonists that are yet to be adapted. Isekai anime that can be considered classics like Inuyasha for example, do indeed have female main characters tho. Yes, I agree with stuck in a fantasy world that’s not the real world part. Not all Isekai anime are harems. Yes a large portion of them are, but there are some that are not. I haven’t watched Log horizon yet, but I’ve heard that it’s not a harem. Yes, but not all Isekai adhere to all these facts. The only one that connects all Isekai anime is the stuck in another world that’s also a fantasy setting part. "Genre" may not be the right word, but there's certainly a coordinated concept that groups these elements together, whatever one may call it. Pullman said: See my comments above.I mean sure, male MCs are a thing most of the time but you can say the same thing about battle shounen and a bunch of other genres. It doesn't get much more vague and meaningless than that in terms of a genre setting itself apart. But they're often not high schoolers, quite frequently they are college students or salaryman or NEETs in their 20s, 30s or even 40s. They definitely don't all have a harem, in fact I'd say most of them don't. Just look at the tags. I don't watch anime tagged as harems, and I watch almost all the isekai titles. They also don't all have action (I know you didn't mention it, but if you think those elements you listed are always part of it you probably also think of all of them as action-based since that's also commonly associated with them.). Pullman said: Indeed, and many people who don't dig into a given set of shows with a superficial commonality will miss the fact that the shows can tell very different stories.The three shows I listed contain one psychological drama, one comedic parody and one gourmet slice of life anime. That's just to show how many different types of shows, with different target audiences get grouped together under this rather unhelpful label. And it's just an excerpt. There's thriller-mysteries and moe cutesy ones, political ones, some even have mecha. The anime using the isekai trope are almost as diverse as the medium itself. I think the confusion here lies in the fact that, like I was mentioning, there's a distinction between "isekai" as a premise and "isekai" as a set of expectations. Pullman said: I don't actually agree with this thinking; I'm simply describing it.The reason many people seem to think of isekai in the same way you do is, no offense, either ignorance or willful selective perception on their side. It's an idea, a generalization that has become so strong in people's minds that they project it into shows rather than really being derived from any common features among all the shows tagged as isekai. Your description felt an awful lot like a defense of that generalized definition tho, since you were arguing back at my more nuanced portrayal of isekai as merely being an element that exists in a ton of different types of shows. I don't get why you would do that just because a lot of people have the wrong idea about it and therefore have these 'expectations'. My whole point was that they're wrong and generalizing, that's why I wrote what I wrote. So I already acknowledge they exist, I know what they're doing, and I'm telling you that it's inaccurate. If someone keeps arguing with me at that point, I'm assuming they're disagreeing and not just 'describing' something I already know and am actively arguing against. So, sorry for the misunderstanding, but I think this one is on you. Also at the end of the day nothing you said really convinced me that there is large enough subset of elements that is common in a large enough percentage of those shows to call it a genre. It's literally just the fantasy setting (which already constitutes a genre) and how they got there. It's regular fantasy anime, with one additional element that is almost always a minor one that soon gets completely forgotten. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I find it to be such an insignificant genre; it is basically "phantasy — except one single character has a connexion to 'our world'." or even in reverse. Like F.M.A. was phantasy at the start but at the end and in the conclusive film it became isekai with really no significant change in tone or conceptualization. Matters it one bit? I think not. |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| What bothers me is why the author decided to make it as Isekai genre instead of pure fantasy genre in the first place. Why bother killing the useless boring main character and reborn them as powerful one?! Why don't the author just start the story as strong main character as pure fantasy genre. In most cases after a few episodes/pages you would forget if this anime/novel are actually isekai. The aspect of real world or the existence of the previous world of the main character lived before now is forgotten. There is no point of isekai if the author didn't bring something important aspect from the previous world -At least thats my thought. Somehow I see it as the author is trying to escape from the reality and try to create their desired world through their story. Gate Jietai is one of the best Isekai implementation, they bring and introduced modern political thoughts and modern warfare in the medieval fantasy world. I read some novel, a cook die and reincarnated in isekai, he has his knowledge as cook in his previous world and introduced modern gourmet in the isekai. I also read a manga, a guy trying to teach math to the isekai girl and the girl was really enthusiast with the usefulness of calculation. This is what I mean for the aspect of the previous world. The story gotta tell if the MC is from another world not completely discard the existence of the previous world and not just reborn them with all-new-OP-abilities in whole new different world. Dont get me wrong I like isekai as long as it has good story telling. Take for example, Overlord, starts as OP MC stuck inside the game, hence isekai. When I start S2 I completely forgotten that if this is actually an isekai anime, so why dont the author start the story as the conquest of Ainz Oal Gown as pure fantasy since that is the main idea of the story and discard the aspect of "stuck in the game". That would make it a decent pure fantasy story. There are many good pure fantasy series like Magi, Berserk, AoT, FMA, HxH, Danmachi that didn't bother start as a dead MC sent to another world. |
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Pullman said: Perhaps it might be more useful to call this "isekai-fantasy" or something, to be more accurate/clear.Also at the end of the day nothing you said really convinced me that there is large enough subset of elements that is common in a large enough percentage of those shows to call it a genre. It's literally just the fantasy setting (which already constitutes a genre) and how they got there. It's regular fantasy anime, with one additional element that is almost always a minor one that soon gets completely forgotten. Also, the isekai element is often rather relevant given that a common plot thread is "main character wants/needs to find a way back out/home". |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
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