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#1
Jul 21, 12:52 PM
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You might have at least once watched a high rated anime but end up disliking it or maybe watch a low rated anime but end up loving it.By reading the reviews of a low rated anime,most people prefer not to watch it.In my opinion,selecting an anime by it's reviews is a pretty big mistake.What do you think?
 
#2
Jul 21, 12:54 PM

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Score was never more than an average. It reflects what the general opinion is on something. Review averages have never been more than that.

The higher an average, the more likely it is SOMEONE will like it. Of course, that doesn't go for everybody.
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#3
Jul 21, 12:59 PM

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To be honest, I hardly read reviews and go by scores. But some people prefer to see if the anime is good or a waste of their time. It's all about preference.
"It's not like I wanted a signature or anything...BAKA!" - A MAL user.
 
#4
Jul 21, 1:00 PM

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The fact that there are still people who base their decision of watching/not watching something entirely on other people's reviews or, even worse, community scores, makes me lose faith in this community even more.
 
#5
Jul 21, 1:01 PM

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Scores are mostly useless on MAL since they're an aggregate and I completely ignore them. Reviews are slightly more helpful especially if they have more depth than a typical two-sentence "review" that lots of people post. Picking anime based on score/reviews is fine but it shouldn't be your only criteria.
Stay Strong, KyoAni.
 
#6
Jul 21, 1:03 PM

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I seldom decide to watch or not watch an anime because of the review someone wrote. I do like reading reviews of series I have watched, especially when I have a very different opinion than the one expressed by the reviewer.
 
#7
Jul 21, 1:03 PM
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i dont usually read reviews, but when i do, is after i watch the anime, there's no point in (i think) reading what other people think of a thing that we haven't stil lwatched/read. Sometimes, my opinion gets a little diferent by reading these reviews, because i agree with what other people say, but most of the times, i just move on; i like that, another person doesn't , it's simple. Reviews should only be seen as opinions, not resources that people find to avoid anime/manga.
 
#8
Jul 21, 1:05 PM

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If you want a general idea over what to expect, some reviews might be helpful. Obviously you want to avoid reviews that make claims with nothing to back them up though. I think if you are someone who reads reviews before watching something you should at least read one of each, one good and one bad review and go from there.














 
#9
Jul 21, 1:09 PM

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Subjectivity is essentially useless.
 
Jul 21, 1:16 PM

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As for me, reading some reviews before watching something is kinda useful. I read both positive and negative reviews and sometimes it helps me avoid things I probably won't like or, vice versa, put something on high priority. Yes, I often get some spoilers, even major spoilers about the ending or somebody's death, but I don't mind because I prioritise how the overall show goes all the way and don't care about spoilers as they never ruin my enjoyment
 
Jul 21, 1:17 PM
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I don't consider the average score of an anime when deciding whether or not to watch it. Instead I purely focus on the synopsis and what it seems the anime offers based on that synopsis. If it seems like an anime I would enjoy, I'll plan on watching. However, there are cases where the synopsis makes me feel like it could be interesting, but I'm not completely sure as to whether I would enjoy it or not. In this case, I turn towards the reviews to see what they have to say. From there, I can generally come to a solid conclusion of if I will or will not watch it.

On another note, I sometimes just like seeing what other people have to say about anime I've seen.
 
Jul 21, 1:22 PM

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It depends if they are done correctly then they can be useful tool for deciding if certain show is worth watching or to see someone else's perspective on the show that you watched and learn new things.

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Jul 21, 1:24 PM

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WELL OP, THIS APPLIES TO NOT JUST ANIME BUT ALL MEDIA IN GENERAL.
 
Jul 21, 1:24 PM

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I generally like reading people's reviews after watching an anime. Hell, after watching an episode, I go check out the forums to see what people said about that episode and what their speculations were. It has kind of made it hard not to be critical of anime series though, but I generally don't care enough because I watch anime for fun.
 
Jul 21, 1:37 PM

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I mean, that's kinda the purpose of reviews, to well...review the show. Ideally the reviews should highlight the pros/cons of the show so the viewer can decide if it's worth it, but lets face it most reviews are pretty much just endless rants/praise. Look at Shield Hero for instance, I 100% admit the show is pretty bad, but there's literally only 1 negative review out of the top few that isn't just reaching to find some excuse to shit on the show
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Jul 21, 1:39 PM
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i rarely read reviews but i see a lot of reviewers gets comments on their profile praising/hating on their reviews so that tells you there are lot of people that read those
 
Jul 21, 1:42 PM

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ShadowMonkey said:
The fact that there are still people who base their decision of watching/not watching something entirely on other people's reviews or, even worse, community scores, makes me lose faith in this community even more.


The score has it merits more than a review by a single individual though. for eg, a series that is rated 6 and 5 will almost certainly not be worth watching for most cases, there are exceptions yes, but is it worth it?

The score of a series just tells the likelihood of you liking it or disliking it and if your taste is not catered to the majority then you know what you are looking for.

But score does have its merit, imagine if there wasn't any review and a scoring system didn't exist for any series? The process of finding what you may like would be a lot more difficult.

We will just be randomly clicking on anime and hoping that we click on something that could be interesting.
 
Jul 21, 1:44 PM
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They ain't useless for the reviewer himself. They improve their writing and thought formulating.

Some reviews can also be educational, and you learn things you did not know before about the work.
 
Jul 21, 2:04 PM

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keragamming said:
ShadowMonkey said:
The fact that there are still people who base their decision of watching/not watching something entirely on other people's reviews or, even worse, community scores, makes me lose faith in this community even more.


The score has it merits more than a review by a single individual though. for eg, a series that is rated 6 and 5 will almost certainly not be worth watching for most cases, there are exceptions yes, but is it worth it?

The score of a series just tells the likelihood of you liking it or disliking it and if your taste is not catered to the majority then you know what you are looking for.

But score does have its merit, imagine if there wasn't any review and a scoring system didn't exist for any series? The process of finding what you may like would be a lot more difficult.

We will just be randomly clicking on anime and hoping that we click on something that could be interesting.
Community scores are community scores. They shouldn't matter to an individual. If you watch a show unbiased and without prior knowledge, you should have no reason to agree or disagree with the majority. You should form your own opinion on everything.
There are horrible shows rated really high, and amazing shows rated really low. Taking community scores as any kind of quality standard is preposterous. If anything, they tell you how well a show will sell or how popular it is/will be, if that.
People who religiously follow community scores are the same ones who criticize people who rate shows differently than the majority or don't follow new/popular trends/shows, in other words, they're people who are afraid of straying from the norm.
That type of people is also more likely to not only watch less things overall, but also grow tired of the medium.
 
Jul 21, 2:10 PM

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what gets me, even as a review writer, is that it's so easy to fall into the trap of checklisting what happens in a series instead of giving more of a critique without spoiling events for those that DO use your review to make a decision to watch. Often though, myself very much included, use reviews as a means to further discuss a particular show.

Good reviews can be hard to find, so I honestly only look at overall scores most of the time if I check before watching.
Now it's time for the weird guy's input!
 
Jul 21, 2:16 PM

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you would also notice high rated anime have low reviews and vice versa

and some anime are more polarized than other... for example all Two Car reviews give it 5, while Misutenaide Daisy has 1,3,8,9, so despite similar score the latter provokes stronger emotions
also bananya has 3/4 of top reviews give it 10, this makes it better recieved than bebop and fma, statistically speaking
 
Jul 21, 2:22 PM

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I agree that this can sometimes happen, once you've finished watching a show you feel it is either over or under rated, compared to the rating the show was given by other people.

However, I usually find that that rating a show gets by MAL users is a good general indicator of what to expect. I don't use the rating as a stand alone litmus test for whether or not to chose to watch a show. I find that reading or watching a review on a show is especially useful, as it gives you more information and detail upon which to base your decision on whether or not to chose to watch a show.
 
Jul 21, 2:28 PM
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People seem to have this retarded black-and-white view of either completely ignoring reviews and scores when selecting a show, or picking shows literally only based on that. That's generally not how it works. You need to interpret both the score and any review in relation to your own taste and then make an informed decision on how likely it seems the show will be to your liking. The more information you take in the more informed your decision can be. Of course if you're dense as a brick, don't know your own taste and are absolutely clueless in terms of how to interpret scores and reviews, it might not do you any good, but that's because of a lack of competence not because it's inherently problematic to look at stuff like scores and reviews.


So as far as I'M concerned saying 'Scores/Reviews don't mean anything for how I pick shows' are really just saying 'I'm too dumb to figure out what they mean in relation to my preferences'.

Reviews in particular, if they aren't just some bullshit for the lulz with no content except bad jokes, can tell you a whole fucking lot completely independent from their score. If I love long-running battle shounen and I read a 1/10 review of a show, complaining it is too long, too action-focused and has too many shounen tropes, it's gonna make me watch the show more than a 10/10 review praising it for being a good magical girl show, since that's a genre I don't like.

It is depressing having to explain these basic-as-fuck things, but considering how many people still spout this unreflected black-and-white bullshit about everything being 'useless' or shittalking anyone who looks at scores/reviews. It's not a one-way street where people just mindlessly take in scores and reviews and let those decide for them what to watch. It's a process, an activity, something you play an active part in. If you look at scores and reviews and reflect on them, and still watch a lot of shows that you dislike, then you're most likely just incompetent in picking stuff, don't know your own taste very well, can't properly interpret what people say unless they literally have the same taste as you, and have no idea what a score tells you about a show depending on its age, genre, popularity and length.

So please stop calling valuable and helpful information 'useless' just because you are useless when it comes to using that information. And even more than that stop shaming the people who are intelligent enough to make use of that information. And, to some degree, stop blaming the reviews and reviewers. As a reader of reviews that tries to interpret them properly your role isn't just a passive one so you can't delegate ALL of the responsability to the writers of reviews. You play a part in that process too.




That being said, of course shitty reviews are a big thing, but figuring out which reviews are useful and which aren't after skimming over them is just part of the routine.

Personally I don't read a lot of reviews since I usually don't feel like I need that additional information to make an informed choice of what to watch, but when I do it's usually just to find out why people hate the show. Because people always do, every show gets hated by a ton of people. If their reasons seem relatable and reasonable then I'll think twice about picking up the show, but more often than not they just hate them for very petty reasons or even things that would make me like them and if that's the case I know it's safe to watch even a show with a 5.xx score.
Modified by Pullman, Jul 21, 2:46 PM

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Jul 21, 2:32 PM

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Yeah, reviews are completely subjective and pointless.
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Jul 21, 2:35 PM

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ShadowMonkey said:
The fact that there are still people who base their decision of watching/not watching something entirely on other people's reviews or, even worse, community scores, makes me lose faith in this community even more.


Yeah im sorry bro i should quit my job and quit college to be able to watch every single anime on its entirety that remotely catches my eye for half a second.



While i can honestly say that i found myself disliking shows with higher scores more often than liking them, ending up with the feeling that people taste is garbage and therefore shouldnt watch stuff based on their scores.
So what? Should the review system, score system and point score be removed on its entirety because i think its useless?
Should the death penalty be approved tomorrow because I as an individual think its a good thing?
Just because YOU think that the score its useless doesnt mean it should be removed or tagged as useless.

Anyways i think your complaint stems from the fact that people will ignore lower scored shows instead of giving them a chance.
Isnt the review system a perfect way to counter this?
Besides your initial point is confusing.
Are you complaining about the reviews? Are you complaining about the scores?
Are you complaining about both even when there are cases in which highly rated shows or shows with a regular score have nothing but bad reviews?
Are you trying to talk about the uselesness of taking your time to save your thoughts in a show you watched for the future?
Because that's like dumb. Sure i could save it for myself in a pendrive in a txt file if i was a caveman...



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Jul 21, 2:39 PM

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I don't read reviews, when I plan to watch and read them. I might read them after I watched or read it.
For my own reviews: I just like to write essays about my thoughts and feelings towards an anime. People can do with it whatever they want.
 
Jul 21, 2:49 PM

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Bah sometimes they can include some useful information or be a decent read, even if I'm not fond of the ones that are too long (and even less of the "troll" ones). If you read some of them with a grain of salt there's no big deal.
 
Jul 21, 2:50 PM

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I've never read a single review

They are mostly just the personal opinion of one user, that's all
 
Jul 21, 3:06 PM
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Not really. I sometimes read reviews when I want to see if a series has something I'm looking for. Usually, I just try out the first episode of an anime depending on how interested I am. Other times, I do a combination of both.

I mean, reviews sometimes aren't all that accurate...but, if you read enough of them, you might find what you're looking for (or trying to avoid). In my reviews, I talk about characters, story, and etc but also mention how I feel because I don't want to write a review that's 100% based on my feelings. This way, I can still get my point across about how good or bad the anime did some things. Depending on what someone is looking for, they might help.
Modified by Sakurai_Aoi, Jul 21, 3:22 PM
 
Jul 21, 3:14 PM

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For the others, yes is pretty useless. But I can understand someone making a review, not only for other people, but also for himself. It probably helps to clarify the thoughts on that anime. I never wrote a review tho.
 
Jul 21, 3:17 PM

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I usually just look at a score, but if I see a much lower score than I was expecting, then I check through the reviews to find general dislikes about it as opposed to specific dislikes by specific people

 
Jul 21, 3:17 PM

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I never watch/read reviews cause i don't like having any bias going into a show, the less i know the better. Sometimes I will see reviews after I watch an anime to see different opinions on things though
 
Jul 21, 3:18 PM

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Do you ask someone that you know for advice before you decide to go out with a girl that you personally find attractive? It's okay but it's better if you decide it for yourself.
 
Jul 21, 3:27 PM

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CordobezEverdeen said:
ShadowMonkey said:
The fact that there are still people who base their decision of watching/not watching something entirely on other people's reviews or, even worse, community scores, makes me lose faith in this community even more.


Yeah im sorry bro i should quit my job and quit college to be able to watch every single anime on its entirety that remotely catches my eye for half a second.



While i can honestly say that i found myself disliking shows with higher scores more often than liking them, ending up with the feeling that people taste is garbage and therefore shouldnt watch stuff based on their scores.
So what? Should the review system, score system and point score be removed on its entirety because i think its useless?
Should the death penalty be approved tomorrow because I as an individual think its a good thing?
Just because YOU think that the score its useless doesnt mean it should be removed or tagged as useless.

Anyways i think your complaint stems from the fact that people will ignore lower scored shows instead of giving them a chance.
Isnt the review system a perfect way to counter this?
Besides your initial point is confusing.
Are you complaining about the reviews? Are you complaining about the scores?
Are you complaining about both even when there are cases in which highly rated shows or shows with a regular score have nothing but bad reviews?
Are you trying to talk about the uselesness of taking your time to save your thoughts in a show you watched for the future?
Because that's like dumb. Sure i could save it for myself in a pendrive in a txt file if i was a caveman...



While on the topic of wasting time, you sure the first two paragraphs were necessary? :^)
sorry no hard feelings couldn't resist lol

My point is that scores shouldn't mean anything to an individual. A world where only conventionally "good" things and safe, popular things remain is a scary one, and it's also scary that we're not really far off. Every season, safe, formulaic, trendy anime (that are more often than not mediocre, if not bad) outshine unconventional anime with much more quality and artistic merit in both popularity and score (let's pretend for a second that those two are not the same thing lolol). Why? Because, well, those popular shows are surface-appealing. The surface which can't appreciate those shows and looks for the safe, popular shows then gives the weird shows low scores because they're "lame" or "dumb" or whatever. Then, the next group sees those scores and goes "these shows have scores lower than 8, I guess they're not worth my time" and skips those shows, when they could've turned out to be their favorites if only they weren't as shallow as to listen to community scores. It's the cycle that repeats every single season.
I'm not saying every high-score/popular show is bad and unoriginal and every low-score/obscure show is good and revolutionary, that's yet another extreme. I'm just saying that the notion to only listen to scores is self-destructive to individuals (keeps watching only acclaimed, samey stuff, gets bored of the medium) and the industry (making samey stuff is rewarded, keeps making samey stuff).

Oh, and reviews are a slightly different kind of doodoo. They often have the same effect as the defense mechanism of "my friend told me this show is shit, so I'll keep looking for only bad things in it" or "my friend loves this, so I'll love it as much as I can too", which is also shallow. Not too far off from scores, actually.
This is more prominent in the gaming industry, where what a single random dipshit wrote for IGN will dictate the game's sales and public reputation because people will listen to him, but top reviews on MAL aren't too much of a deviation from that imo.
Reviews are good as recommendations or a means to compare your opinions on something with others', but when you go deciding what you'll watch or not watch based on them, they're just as crappy as scores. In fact, listening to only one or a few individuals is even more scary than listening to a community, don't you think? But then again, when you round up the opinions of the community in a single number, it turns out to to be the same shit.
Modified by ShadowMonkey, Jul 21, 3:47 PM
 
Jul 21, 3:41 PM

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I only read them when I'm unsure about watching a show. Some of them are helpful, even if I don't agree with the score.
 
Jul 21, 3:45 PM
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Score represents the general majority. Reviews represent individuals. Either way, neither of them will necessarily resonate with you personally. However, reviews at least have the advantage of them trying to explain why they thought the way they did, whereas the score is just a number and nothing more

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Jul 21, 3:47 PM
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ShadowMonkey said:
keragamming said:


The score has it merits more than a review by a single individual though. for eg, a series that is rated 6 and 5 will almost certainly not be worth watching for most cases, there are exceptions yes, but is it worth it?

The score of a series just tells the likelihood of you liking it or disliking it and if your taste is not catered to the majority then you know what you are looking for.

But score does have its merit, imagine if there wasn't any review and a scoring system didn't exist for any series? The process of finding what you may like would be a lot more difficult.

We will just be randomly clicking on anime and hoping that we click on something that could be interesting.
Community scores are community scores. They shouldn't matter to an individual. If you watch a show unbiased and without prior knowledge, you should have no reason to agree or disagree with the majority. You should form your own opinion on everything.


That makes no sense. No matter how much you believe in individuality and subjectivity, there is still a shitton of things humans have in common just based on being human, just like there is a lot of common ground in what we like to see in an anime or storytelling in general. So there are plenty of reasons to agree with the majority or expect to agree with the majority, unless you know for a fact that in every single area of human interest and opinion you are 'the exception' and in the minority.

Which I'm not buying, noone is that special of a snowflake. For most people individuality is more about being in the minority in a few areas, having some outlier opinions, or even just a unique combination of popular opinions. People still have more in common than separates them from each other. And in any case even if you were 'the exception' to everything humans have in common, you could still just interpret the scores in reverse and find them useful.

All of that is especially true if you watch it 'unbiased'. The thing that makes us hold different opinions on the same show are those biases. If a show has a low score because it has shitty animation that's pretty much universal and objectively a property of the show and anyone with an unbiased view will see it and enjoy the show less, on average. That's the default assumption, that's how the majority will react, that's what will be reflected in the score. You'd need to be biased in a way that makes you completely not care about animation quality for that to not influence your enjoyment, and even that you won't see it as a positive thing, just as neutral. Noone sees bad animation as an active upside.

The point is that the score has no biases, it just tells you about the aspects of a show that can be assumed to be common to most people who watch them, averaged out. If it doesn't 'work' for you, then that's because of your personal biases that make you deviate from the 'average' viewer perception, and since that is your bias only YOU can take them into account when interpreting a show's score. It doesn't make the score useless, it just makes it slightly harder to interpret.

It's only useless if you can't interpret it at all, which is usually a personal problem and not an inherent issue of the score itself. The score never lies, it always carries the same information for everyone who looks at it. That information is not inherently useless, it's only useless if you don't know what to do with it, how to decode it. Or if you think you know what to do with it but don't.

Also, just on a sidenote, what does this even have to do with 'forming your own opinion on shows'? You look at scores as one factor to help you decide what to watch, the forming of any opinions comes after that, when you actually watch it.

There are horrible shows rated really high, and amazing shows rated really low. Taking community scores as any kind of quality standard is preposterous. If anything, they tell you how well a show will sell or how popular it is/will be, if that.


Yes and there's usually very specific reasons why someone thinks a highly rated show is terrible or the other way round. Reasons that lie in the individual with the outlier opinion, not the show. Personal reasons that make them an exception to the norm. Exceptions don't disprove anything tho, or rather they prove that for the most part scores are useful because otherwise the cases where they aren't wouldn't be seen as exceptions.

It's all a numbers game and the average scores are inherently representative because they are only the average score because most people agree with them, since the average is literally derived from how people score a show. There being exceptions to everything when the sample size is big enough, is completely irrelevant. Scores aren't guarantees to like or dislike something, and almost nobody treats them as such except the people like you who completely reject them.

Probably because you expect them to be either 100% right or 100% wrong, and since they are never 100% correct you assume they are 100% wrong even tho realistically they are mostly more in the 80-95% correct bracket. They simply give you a probability of liking something. Which is never 100%, which is why you can always find some exception, but finding 1% exceptions on a 99% probabilty just means it's as it should be, the score is accurate.

Your 'scores are useless' side of the argument always just focuses on the lower side of the probability and thinks because it isn't 100%, it's completely useless, but that's just a very ignorant stance to have if you actually know what scores are supposed to tell you.

Another way to look at it is to not look at individual shows and how well the score did predicting how much you'd like them, but looking at larger batches of shows. Do you like more shows from the top 100 than from the shows ranked #1000-1100? That mostly elimintes the subjectivity and individual exceptions of having a minority opinion on a few shows, which we all do. And you can't really call the scores useless if any batch of 100 or 200 consecutively ranked shows is having better shows than lower ranked batches of the same number of shows.

People who religiously follow community scores are the same ones who criticize people who rate shows differently than the majority or don't follow new/popular trends/shows, in other words, they're people who are afraid of straying from the norm.
That type of people is also more likely to not only watch less things overall, but also grow tired of the medium.


They probably are, because in almost 10 years on activity in the anime community I've barely ever seen anyone who did either. They're like so many other groups in this community, barely existing and mostly referenced by people shittalking them so those people can feel better about themselves.

But yes, if people really followed the scores 'religiously', completely ignoring any other information about them like synopsis, genre, staff members etc..., then that is retarded. Watching a show from a genre you know you hate just because of the score (or popularity for that matter) is never not gonna be retarded. I don't think this needs to be pointed out tho.

And, again, that is not how I see scores being treated except by your side of the argument. Most of us just interpret them accordingly, take them into account as one factor among many, and accept that they are not guarantees to like or dislike something, but merely probabilities.

So, you see, when you 'argue' against scores being useful and people taking them into account, you're really only arguing against like 0.1% of people who look at scores, but because you constructed this idea of people 'religiously following them' in your head, preventing you from having a more nuanced view on how people look at scores and how useful they can be, you make it sound like your arguments apply to scores in general being useless, when they really just apply to a small subset of people who don't look at them very intelligently and therefore make them useless in a very narrow context only.

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Jul 21, 3:49 PM

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I read reviews, but I don't draw the false conclusion that a good review from some random person means I will like the show and a bad review means I will dislike it, or vice versa.

Rather, I read the substance of a review. Oftentimes what someone is pointing to as examples of its negative points are things which don't bother me at all and are even actually a big plus for me, so they're informative in that way.

Example: Review of random show X gives it a 5/10, repeatedly chastising it for "repetition" of exposition and dialogue. I love repetition, so I actually take this as a big boon. The viewer's information is still valuable to me, even if I surmise I'll like or dislike the opposite of what they do.
 
Jul 21, 3:59 PM

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Deciding whether a show is worth watching or not just by reading some reviews is shallow, that's all.
 
Jul 21, 4:01 PM
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CordobezEverdeen said:


While i can honestly say that i found myself disliking shows with higher scores more often than liking them, ending up with the feeling that people taste is garbage and therefore shouldnt watch stuff based on their scores.


The real question is whether you also like shows with lower scores more often than not. If you like 4 out 10 8+ scored shows, and 7 out of 10 shows with a score lower than 8, then yeah the scores are useless for you arguable they are still useful in a different way, but for the sake of argument I'll assume they aren't).

But if you only like 1 out of 10 shows with a lower score, I'd say they are still being useful. Yeah, you might miss 6 out of 10 times when you watch a highly rated show, but you still have a 400% higher chance of finding a show you like if you stick to shows with higher scores. That's a pretty good ratio.

I'm just trying to say that some people simply like 'less' things overall and therefore might be under the impression that the scores are useless, when they really aren't.

In general I'd say the more narrow your taste is the harder it is to make use of the average scores, but I think if you put in some effort and pay attention to any patterns that might emerge in terms of how your opinions and preferences align with the average scores, almost anyone can get some useful information out of scores, at least for some titles. They don't need to be helpful in every case to 'not be useless' so I find it basically implausible to just call them useless in a generalized way.

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Jul 21, 4:02 PM
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I find most reviews useless. Probably, because I haven't found a reviewer I've fully agreed with on anime. In many of the reviews, you'll see them simply state "lack of character development" , or something like that, and give the anime a 1.

Scores are far more trustworthy, even if they still don't fully reflect one person's views.
 
Jul 21, 4:18 PM

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ShadowMonkey said:
keragamming said:


The score has it merits more than a review by a single individual though. for eg, a series that is rated 6 and 5 will almost certainly not be worth watching for most cases, there are exceptions yes, but is it worth it?

The score of a series just tells the likelihood of you liking it or disliking it and if your taste is not catered to the majority then you know what you are looking for.

But score does have its merit, imagine if there wasn't any review and a scoring system didn't exist for any series? The process of finding what you may like would be a lot more difficult.

We will just be randomly clicking on anime and hoping that we click on something that could be interesting.
Community scores are community scores. They shouldn't matter to an individual. If you watch a show unbiased and without prior knowledge, you should have no reason to agree or disagree with the majority. You should form your own opinion on everything.
There are horrible shows rated really high, and amazing shows rated really low. Taking community scores as any kind of quality standard is preposterous. If anything, they tell you how well a show will sell or how popular it is/will be, if that.
People who religiously follow community scores are the same ones who criticize people who rate shows differently than the majority or don't follow new/popular trends/shows, in other words, they're people who are afraid of straying from the norm.
That type of people is also more likely to not only watch less things overall, but also grow tired of the medium.


On a individual basis of course there will be shows that each individual will consider to be good or bad, I'm not saying the community score should be looked at as "objective" what I am saying is that if you are a person who knows his her taste then you can use the community score as like a guide or to give you an idea if you may possible like this show.

If you see a series with a community rating of 5 or 6, it just mean there is a higher chance that you may not like the series, because the lower the score is, the higher the chances of an individual not liking that series, and if you are a person that doesn't have time or the patient to try out every single series then you can use the community score as a guide to avoid those series and wasting your time overall.

There maybe a series with low rating that I may like, but is it worth it to try out all those other bad series before finding that gem? It is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Can I ask you a question, all those anime in your plan to watch list, how did you find them? Also your mean score is 8.42 which means the community score definitely would benefit you.
Modified by keragamming, Jul 21, 4:22 PM
 
Jul 21, 4:19 PM

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Anime reviews are for freaking nerds.
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However, compared to the difference between
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the best witch... no... The greatest Creator in the world...!"
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Jul 21, 4:50 PM

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scores (both from individuals and aggregated scores) are useless but reviews aren't cause sometimes they're funny and in very rare cases you might get some useful information out of them

however those cases are rare enough that i dont expect that so when i do read reviews its just to laugh at
 
Jul 21, 5:38 PM

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Pullman said:
ShadowMonkey said:
Community scores are community scores. They shouldn't matter to an individual. If you watch a show unbiased and without prior knowledge, you should have no reason to agree or disagree with the majority. You should form your own opinion on everything.


That makes no sense. No matter how much you believe in individuality and subjectivity, there is still a shitton of things humans have in common just based on being human, just like there is a lot of common ground in what we like to see in an anime or storytelling in general. So there are plenty of reasons to agree with the majority or expect to agree with the majority, unless you know for a fact that in every single area of human interest and opinion you are 'the exception' and in the minority.

Which I'm not buying, noone is that special of a snowflake. For most people individuality is more about being in the minority in a few areas, having some outlier opinions, or even just a unique combination of popular opinions. People still have more in common than separates them from each other. And in any case even if you were 'the exception' to everything humans have in common, you could still just interpret the scores in reverse and find them useful.

All of that is especially true if you watch it 'unbiased'. The thing that makes us hold different opinions on the same show are those biases. If a show has a low score because it has shitty animation that's pretty much universal and objectively a property of the show and anyone with an unbiased view will see it and enjoy the show less, on average. That's the default assumption, that's how the majority will react, that's what will be reflected in the score. You'd need to be biased in a way that makes you completely not care about animation quality for that to not influence your enjoyment, and even that you won't see it as a positive thing, just as neutral. Noone sees bad animation as an active upside.

The point is that the score has no biases, it just tells you about the aspects of a show that can be assumed to be common to most people who watch them, averaged out. If it doesn't 'work' for you, then that's because of your personal biases that make you deviate from the 'average' viewer perception, and since that is your bias only YOU can take them into account when interpreting a show's score. It doesn't make the score useless, it just makes it slightly harder to interpret.

It's only useless if you can't interpret it at all, which is usually a personal problem and not an inherent issue of the score itself. The score never lies, it always carries the same information for everyone who looks at it. That information is not inherently useless, it's only useless if you don't know what to do with it, how to decode it. Or if you think you know what to do with it but don't.

Also, just on a sidenote, what does this even have to do with 'forming your own opinion on shows'? You look at scores as one factor to help you decide what to watch, the forming of any opinions comes after that, when you actually watch it.

There are horrible shows rated really high, and amazing shows rated really low. Taking community scores as any kind of quality standard is preposterous. If anything, they tell you how well a show will sell or how popular it is/will be, if that.


Yes and there's usually very specific reasons why someone thinks a highly rated show is terrible or the other way round. Reasons that lie in the individual with the outlier opinion, not the show. Personal reasons that make them an exception to the norm. Exceptions don't disprove anything tho, or rather they prove that for the most part scores are useful because otherwise the cases where they aren't wouldn't be seen as exceptions.

It's all a numbers game and the average scores are inherently representative because they are only the average score because most people agree with them, since the average is literally derived from how people score a show. There being exceptions to everything when the sample size is big enough, is completely irrelevant. Scores aren't guarantees to like or dislike something, and almost nobody treats them as such except the people like you who completely reject them.

Probably because you expect them to be either 100% right or 100% wrong, and since they are never 100% correct you assume they are 100% wrong even tho realistically they are mostly more in the 80-95% correct bracket. They simply give you a probability of liking something. Which is never 100%, which is why you can always find some exception, but finding 1% exceptions on a 99% probabilty just means it's as it should be, the score is accurate.

Your 'scores are useless' side of the argument always just focuses on the lower side of the probability and thinks because it isn't 100%, it's completely useless, but that's just a very ignorant stance to have if you actually know what scores are supposed to tell you.

Another way to look at it is to not look at individual shows and how well the score did predicting how much you'd like them, but looking at larger batches of shows. Do you like more shows from the top 100 than from the shows ranked #1000-1100? That mostly elimintes the subjectivity and individual exceptions of having a minority opinion on a few shows, which we all do. And you can't really call the scores useless if any batch of 100 or 200 consecutively ranked shows is having better shows than lower ranked batches of the same number of shows.

People who religiously follow community scores are the same ones who criticize people who rate shows differently than the majority or don't follow new/popular trends/shows, in other words, they're people who are afraid of straying from the norm.
That type of people is also more likely to not only watch less things overall, but also grow tired of the medium.


They probably are, because in almost 10 years on activity in the anime community I've barely ever seen anyone who did either. They're like so many other groups in this community, barely existing and mostly referenced by people shittalking them so those people can feel better about themselves.

But yes, if people really followed the scores 'religiously', completely ignoring any other information about them like synopsis, genre, staff members etc..., then that is retarded. Watching a show from a genre you know you hate just because of the score (or popularity for that matter) is never not gonna be retarded. I don't think this needs to be pointed out tho.

And, again, that is not how I see scores being treated except by your side of the argument. Most of us just interpret them accordingly, take them into account as one factor among many, and accept that they are not guarantees to like or dislike something, but merely probabilities.

So, you see, when you 'argue' against scores being useful and people taking them into account, you're really only arguing against like 0.1% of people who look at scores, but because you constructed this idea of people 'religiously following them' in your head, preventing you from having a more nuanced view on how people look at scores and how useful they can be, you make it sound like your arguments apply to scores in general being useless, when they really just apply to a small subset of people who don't look at them very intelligently and therefore make them useless in a very narrow context only.
If you need a more detailed look at my opinions, check out my reply to CordobezEverdeen. I have a habit of mentioning points initially and then expanding them when someone responds.

Now, let me address some of your points.

Score not only contains, but also feeds into bias. A lot of people will see that a show has a low score and then either ignore it (leaving the score low) or watch it after subconsciously going "I'm not supposed to like it, so it's ok if I don't try", and feed into the bias by giving it a low score. Those same people will then check out highly rated things and give them good scores, often without much thought about if something bothered them or what bothered them about the shows (further feeding into the bias).

Next, your stances on individuality. The whole point of individuality is not caring about outside influences when forming an opinion, at least for me. So when you try to sell me a story about how "we're not special snowflakes" I call bullshit, because I want to be a snowflake, not part of a snowball. When I see someone talking about how "we're not different", I interpret that as a snowball. Let's assume I have a problem with a show that the general public doesn't seem to have, by choosing to say "whatever maybe I'm just overthinking it/I'm dumb/I'm wrong", choosing to neglect it and giving it a higher score to match others' opinions, I'm becoming a part of the snowball. I hate that, and think it's wrong. People aren't the same/extremely similar right out of the gate, they're afraid of being different, so they adjust, becoming similar. It's a defense mechanism. Individuality is a movement against that defense mechanism, as I like to see it. People like to mistake not being afraid/ashamed of being different for trying to be different, because they're afraid/ashamed of being different themselves. I see making a decision of watching/not watching something based solely on community scores and/or feeding into those scores for the sake of feeding into them by neglecting your own opinions as a perfect representation of that.
Also, funny that you used the "bad animation" example since most people these days seemingly don't care about bad animation, unless it progressively gets worse, because a big percentage of highly rated new shows have mediocre/bad animation. But acceptance of mediocrity is a whole another topic so let's not get off-track.

Oh, the whole "do you have a higher percentage of highly rated shows from #1-100 or #1000-1100" argument is kinda counter-intuitive since I'm looking at those shows individually. I don't care if something I disliked is in the top 100 or if something I loved is below #1000. I'm not gonna hesitate to individually give them good/bad scores or include them in my favorites. I couldn't care less where they are in the statistics.

And lastly, please don't give me the "you're shittalking them to feel better about yourself" schtick. I'm shittalking them because I have a strong opinion about them, not because I want to make myself feel better. Today's anti-freedom of speech(?, idk what to call it) culture is the last thing I wanna be addressing here.
Modified by ShadowMonkey, Jul 21, 6:30 PM
 
Jul 21, 5:44 PM
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If I'm on the fence about an Anime, I'll generally look at a few, but Generally, try to avoid all of them!

 
Jul 21, 6:16 PM

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keragamming said:
ShadowMonkey said:
Community scores are community scores. They shouldn't matter to an individual. If you watch a show unbiased and without prior knowledge, you should have no reason to agree or disagree with the majority. You should form your own opinion on everything.
There are horrible shows rated really high, and amazing shows rated really low. Taking community scores as any kind of quality standard is preposterous. If anything, they tell you how well a show will sell or how popular it is/will be, if that.
People who religiously follow community scores are the same ones who criticize people who rate shows differently than the majority or don't follow new/popular trends/shows, in other words, they're people who are afraid of straying from the norm.
That type of people is also more likely to not only watch less things overall, but also grow tired of the medium.


On a individual basis of course there will be shows that each individual will consider to be good or bad, I'm not saying the community score should be looked at as "objective" what I am saying is that if you are a person who knows his her taste then you can use the community score as like a guide or to give you an idea if you may possible like this show.

If you see a series with a community rating of 5 or 6, it just mean there is a higher chance that you may not like the series, because the lower the score is, the higher the chances of an individual not liking that series, and if you are a person that doesn't have time or the patient to try out every single series then you can use the community score as a guide to avoid those series and wasting your time overall.

There maybe a series with low rating that I may like, but is it worth it to try out all those other bad series before finding that gem? It is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Can I ask you a question, all those anime in your plan to watch list, how did you find them? Also your mean score is 8.42 which means the community score definitely would benefit you.
Hm, how does knowing your own taste have anything to do with a community score? If we all have unique taste, say, you like mecha, shouldn't the fact that the genres list mecha mean much more to you than the score being a 5 or 6?

I understand and respect wanting to save time, but I'm of the belief that even being disappointed by something or thinking it's bad is beneficial towards building your individual taste, so for me personally plowing through "bad" things to find a gem is not only a valuable experience but makes me appreciate the gem that much more. But regardless, if we take the notion to save time, and you watch a highly-rated show only to be somewhat disappointed by it, and then start digging through similar low-score shows, watch 2 that you don't like and then absolutely love the third one, didn't you enjoy the experience of finding a show that you did like among low-rated ones, regardless of the time investment, more than going for an acclaimed one and not enjoying it that much, or even finding it alright? Just curious.

Oh, my PTW. Well, I put everything I'm even remotely attracted to on my PTW. For example, I'll be watching a Digibro video and he'll mention 2 anime as comparisons to a third one that he's actually talking about, then I'll pause and add those to my PTW, knowing virtually nothing about them. They also accumulate from MAL recommendations, the random anime/manga buttons and such. Then I randomly pick one anime/manga out of my PTW, not knowing anything about it (the score, genres, synopsis, nothing), and then I'll jump into it and see how I like it. It's really fun and you get to watch things you'd never get to that way. Oh, and that isn't even half of my PTW haha, they were getting out of hand, so I moved my PTW to a notepad app on my phone and there I have hundreds, if not a thousand more anime and manga lol.
 
Jul 21, 6:22 PM

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I think if you take reviews and scores into consideration, it's okay, but I feel you shouldn't solely base your decision on watching a certain series just because of the reviews and scores. I've watched series that are on the lower side of rankings and I've enjoyed the series regardless of what people on said about it.
 
Jul 21, 6:28 PM

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ShadowMonkey said:
Score not only contains, but also feeds into bias. A lot of people will see that a show has a low score and then either ignore it (leaving the score low) or watch it after subconsciously going "I'm not supposed to like it, so it's ok if I don't try", and feed into the bias by giving it a low score. Those same people will then check out highly rated things and give them good scores, often without much thought about if something bothered them or what bothered them about the shows (further feeding into the bias).

Next, your stances on individuality. The whole point of individuality is not caring about outside influences when forming an opinion, at least for me. So when you try to sell me a story about how "we're not special snowflakes" I call bullshit, because I want to be a snowflake, not part of a snowball. When I see someone talking about how "we're not different", I interpret that as a snowball. Let's assume I have a problem with a show that the general public doesn't seem to have, by choosing to say "whatever maybe I'm just overthinking it/I'm dumb/I'm wrong", choosing to neglect it and giving it a higher score to match others' opinions, I'm becoming a part of the snowball. I hate that, and think it's wrong. People aren't the same/extremely similar right out of the gate, they're afraid of being different, so they adjust, becoming similar. It's a defense mechanism. Individuality is a movement against that defense mechanism, as I like to see it. People like to mistake not being afraid/ashamed of being different for trying to be different, because they're afraid/ashamed of being different themselves. I see making a decision of watching/not watching something based solely on community scores and/or feeding into those scores for the sake of feeding into them by neglecting your own opinions as a perfect representation of that.
Also, funny that you used the "bad animation" example since most people these days seemingly don't care about bad animation, unless it progressively gets worse, because a big percentage of highly rated new shows have mediocre/bad animation. But acceptance of mediocrity is a whole another topic so let's not get off-track.

Oh, the whole "do you have a higher percentage of highly rated shows from #1-100 or #1000-1100" argument is kinda counter-intuitive since I'm looking at those shows individually. I don't care if something I disliked is in the top 100 or if something I loved is below #1000. I'm not gonna hesitate to individually give them good/bad scores or include them in my favorites. I couldn't care less where they are in the statistics.

And lastly, please don't give me the "you're shittalking them to make yourself feel better" schtick. I'm shittalking them because I have a strong opinion about them, not because I want to make myself feel better. Today's anti-freedom of speech culture is the last thing I wanna be addressing here.


Bolded paragraph. Truest shit right there.

People are, on average, massive sheep. Never underestimate herd mentality.

Every. Single. Season.
There are a small number of shows that get all the talk, all the hype, all the eyes on them, and they end up highly rated.

Every. Single. Season.
There are perfectly good shows that don't get the hype, don't get the attention. And all the little sheep think that they must be bad because they're not being talked about.

And then ShadowMonkey's point about the low scores reinforcing bias and keeping the scores low because of expectations comes in to play.

This is exactly the same mentality that Hollywood figured out long ago. Marketing is the number one predictor of success. People watch what they have shoved in their faces. Then, everyone is watching it so it must be good. Pay the critics too so everyone keeps hearing how good it is. And all that works in the opposite direction too.

Fucking. Sheep.

And the thing is, we are all susceptible to this. I don't care how much you say others peoples opinions don't affect you. They do. If you really care about getting the most pure, untainted, uninfluenced experience, then you won't pay any attention to scores, reviews, hype or anti-hype before or during watching an anime. It sucks, but I had to get away from all the influence so I stopped following seasonal discussions and my anime experience is much better for it [EDIT: It's late and I'm making exagerrations. I talk a little about certain shows but most stuff I wait for end of the season to watch fully and only after finishing them do I engage in discussions].

By the way, ShadowMonkey, I disagree on one thing you said. About animation quality. If you ask me, high animation quality is the number one thing that people overrate anime for. For lots of people, the story/character/music/everything other than animation quality doesn't matter. Give them some flashy animation and they will rate highly. Very sad.
Modified by YossaRedMage, Jul 21, 6:38 PM
Watching: Haganai NEXT.

Watching Weekly: Sounan Desu ka, Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku.

Recently Finished: Shield Hero (7), Shoumetsu Toshi (7), Midara na Ao-chan (6), Miru Tights (7), Fate UBW S1 (9) / S2 (10), Your Lie in April (9), Haganai (10).

Check out my blog at http://yossanime.com/
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Jul 21, 7:05 PM

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Personally I prefer to start a series without any background information on it (no trailers, synopsis, spoilers, etc.). That approach makes me feel like an explorer who is treading into the unknown; which amplifies my excitement. I can do it because I spend the majority of my free time on anime. I do read reviews but only after finishing a show.

With regards to picking a show, I don't think reading reviews is such a bad thing. Though you probably need to read 5+ reviews to get an accurate picture of a show. Later on, you might see a recurring reviewer than you aligned with; making future choices easier. Not everyone has the time to watch lots of shows.
 
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